2023 AG Hunter Cup

[Messenger]

https://www.thetrots.com.au/news/the-forum/hamilton/hamilton-can-the-hunter-cups-king-doo-it-again/

Adam is right that Anthony has 7 Hunter Cup victories but he only lists 6 - he forgot Mr Feelgood in 2009

When I went searching for the missing 6th, I tried the Drivers Stats that you find when you click on their name in the fields. Not the answer (go to Feature Race chronicles on the HRA site - you will eventually get there by clicking on the Racing tab) But (not Butt :D) you will be told in the Driver Stats that Anthony has driven 819 winners - WTF (excuse my French)

Once again a glaring hole in record keeping (or at least specifying what the stats are)
This does not include NZ wins, of which there are another 1,993

So Ants has driven 2,812 winners

It will be interesting if he wins the AG with RNR Doo, will Mick be able to resume driving him

[Adaptor]

https://www.thetrots.com.au/news/the-forum/hamilton/hamilton-can-the-hunter-cups-king-doo-it-again/

Adam is right that Anthony has 7 Hunter Cup victories but he only lists 6 - he forgot Mr Feelgood in 2009

When I went searching for the missing 6th, I tried the Drivers Stats that you find when you click on their name in the fields. Not the answer (go to Feature Race chronicles on the HRA site - you will eventually get there by clicking on the Racing tab) But (not Butt :D) you will be told in the Driver Stats that Anthony has driven 819 winners - WTF (excuse my French)

Once again a glaring hole in record keeping (or at least specifying what the stats are)
This does not include NZ wins, of which there are another 1,993

So Ants has driven 2,812 winners

It will be interesting if he wins the AG with RNR Doo, will Mick be able to resume driving him

Kev,
IWell done to find Anthony Butt;s Australasian stats. It's painful isn't it that they are not easily acccessible.

I'm thinking that there are more to add to your total as he drove at least 1 winner in Scandinavia and more than 1 in the US, at the Meadowlands.
Difficult to find those, as the USTA site is user pays.

[Messenger]

It would seem that the draw and the addition of Act Now to the opposition may be the only barriers to Copy That winning the Hunter Cup
From this article it would seem there is little chance Expensive Ego is coming

https://www.thetrots.com.au/news/the-forum/hamilton/hamilton-mccarthy-to-show-spirit-in-narrow-hunter-attack/

[Showgrounds]

Rock N Roll Doo is out of the Hunter Cup. https://www.harness.org.au/media-room/news-article/?news_id=59778

No surprise to anybody that knows anything about horses and has critically watched the horse's past few runs.

Still Mick Stanley continues to amaze with his outrageous public comments. Connections are now considering targeting the Miracle Mile (must be an easier task than I ever knew*). Some of Stanley's comments:

“We’re still learning about him. He’s won some staying races, but when he’s able to find the front and do it on his terms".

“Maybe he’s not a stayer? He’s gone super in the sprint races at Menangle and even the Victoria Cup was a middle distance (2240m) not a staying race.

“It’s an interesting stage for him. He’s gone from being the most relaxed horse you’d see into really wanting to fire up and get on with the job in his races.

“The frustrating part is that he’s flying at home. His work is at least as good as Victoria Cup time.”

All this from the man who believed his horse would have no trouble handling the stand in the 2400-metre Ashburton Flying Stakes and the 3200-metre New Zealand Cup. I reckon he must be a slow learner. Everything he has said suggests the horse is telling him it wants a nice green paddock after a thorough set of veterinary tests. What we are witnessing is a car crash in slow-motion.

* Feel free to compile a list of Miracle Mile winners that could not be considered stayers!

[Messenger]

To be accurate Trev, it says he might be out the Cup
I reckon some would be wondering whether Mick is still the best man to be training Doo

[Showgrounds]

To be accurate Trev, it says he might be out the Cup
I reckon some would be wondering whether Mick is still the best man to be training Doo

I wonder if a bookie is betting on an exotic double, Rock N Roll Doo not running into Copy That to win. I reckon I could get good odds with Bonno. He reckons Copy That was "somewhat gifted" the lead on Saturday night. Bonno-speak for running straight to the front, I guess.

[Messenger]

I agree, I would take that double :D

[Messenger]

The 22 noms

https://www.thetrots.com.au/news/articles/hunter-cup-field-takes-shape-as-22-nominated-for-the-great-race/

[Messenger]

The fight for the last few spots became tighter when trainer Mick Stanley said Victoria Cup winner Rock N Roll Doo was “very likely” to accept for the race (and get a run) despite some issues in his recent races.

https://www.harness.org.au/media-room/news-article/?news_id=59837

It is going to be interesting to see who gets a run

The $500k is a big carrot but I would not be surprised if Anne and Bill give it a miss and settle for The Mercury with Harley and possibly a tilt at the MM after that

I figure Act Now must be concentrating on the $1m MM

Certain to get a start are

Copy That
Expensive Ego
I Cast No Shadow
Spirit of St Louis
RNR Doo
Honolua Bay
Major Meister
Mach Dan

They say

Old Town Road (but an Oz 5yo who had won only $115k would not get a look in)
Max Delight - this might be the last time his Vic Cup win of 16mths ago gets him a ticket into a big race

I think they might go with Catch A Wave

There are a few honest performers amongst the rest who might place but cannot win (like RNR Doo)

[Showgrounds]

The fight for the last few spots became tighter when trainer Mick Stanley said Victoria Cup winner Rock N Roll Doo was “very likely” to accept for the race (and get a run) despite some issues in his recent races.

https://www.harness.org.au/media-room/news-article/?news_id=59837

It is going to be interesting to see who gets a run

The $500k is a big carrot but I would not be surprised if Anne and Bill give it a miss and settle for The Mercury with Harley and possibly a tilt at the MM after that

I figure Act Now must be concentrating on the $1m MM

Certain to get a start are

Copy That
Expensive Ego
I Cast No Shadow
Spirit of St Louis
RNR Doo
Honolua Bay
Major Meister
Mach Dan

They say

Old Town Road (but an Oz 5yo who had won only $115k would not get a look in)
Max Delight - this might be the last time his Vic Cup win of 16mths ago gets him a ticket into a big race

I think they might go with Catch A Wave

There are a few honest performers amongst the rest who might place but cannot win (like RNR Doo)

In defence of Old Town Road I don't think there would be too many 11-start Australians capable of stepping up to group racing like he did when a slashing second in the Ashburton Flying Stakes and a very close third in NZ's premier mobile start race, the New Zealand Free For All (behind Self Assured and Majestic Cruiser) at their 12th and 14th race starts. Nothing wrong with his 6th in the NZ Cup in between either.

Your comment is spot on Kev because there isn't an Aussie horse with a comparable record worthy of a start.

[Messenger]

There is of course a 5yo Aussie with as good a record but somewhat surprisingly he did not nominate while the 5yo mare that would give him a run for his money is injured

[Messenger]

https://www.thetrots.com.au/news/articles/the-field-is-set-starters-revealed-for-saturday-nights-hunter-cup/

Cranbourne is the Emergency

[Messenger]

No Catch A Wave - not even Emergency

[Messenger]

Copy That off the front is probably all he needs

[Showgrounds]

Old Town Road gets the visitor's draw - again.

I would expect SoSL, Honolua Bay and Copy That to work forward out of the gate with the others on the front line to ease. SoSL will hand up, I reckon, especially of Orange pushes on with Copy That.

[Messenger]

Orange simply has to push on.
Am I right in thinking Torrid Saint is pretty fast out?
Could Ego get a nice run through?

[Toohard]

Pity it's not a stand start with handicaps like it used to be?

Throw another unknown into the mix and make it more interesting?

[Showgrounds]

Moran is already ruling out going for the lead on Honolua Bay, preferring to hold him up for one sprint. So, Copy That can work forward at his leisure. As I have said previously, he drops the bit once in front but not the speed.

[aussiebreno]

Sky Racing done a facebook post asking who will win the Hunter Cup. It has been up for 16hrs. Just the 10 likes and 4 comments.

This shows a severe disinterest in the sport as its well down on thoroughbred posts engagement from Sky Racing on facebook.

One of the 4x comments was "seeing as its a pacing race any of them can gallop". The same type of comment is made in pubs all across Australia.

Comments like this are essential as to why trotting races are scrapped. People cannot differentiate between the two. With so many trotters galloping it hurts the industry when punters are turned away from the sport altogether. While pacers do gallop infrequently its not the same major problem of trotters.

The comment also serves as validation for the Hunter Cup now being a mobile event.

[Messenger]

I would like to think that comments like yours and the Sky poster's are read and considered by our administrators but I really doubt it.
They probably see such things as small fry but they can be the core of our very survival

[Messenger]

Rightio so we have Nathan Jack driving Harley and Mark Pitt on Mach Dan

While Harley is a live chance, I am somewhat surprised that he is $7. Any horse that ends up 3 fence can see gaps open up in a race like the Cup but any horse that is 3 fence is entitled to be $10 as they are going to need luck

Triple Eight has come in a little from $71 to $61 today as $71 was probably overs as he is going alright, has G.Sugars and the distance suits
Mach Dan has come in from $51 after the draw to $41, once again probably because $51 was overs for a horse that is going alright and has the stable's number one driver

Honolua has shortened from opening $7.50 into $5.50
Copy That keeps drifting and is now $3.10
While RNR Doo has gone from a silly $10 out to $18 and could go further despite the Ant Butt factor

[Messenger]

The Vic TAB do NOT have a market up for the Cup right now

Hmmm - any news on the horizon?

[Messenger]

Sportsbet have Copy That out to $3.60 with Louis and Honolua at $5.50

[Messenger]

The Vic TAB do NOT have a market up for the Cup right now

Hmmm - any news on the horizon?

I found the TAB market

The idiots have the whole meeting listed on their top line but no Fixed Odds for R7

You go down below Albion Park and you find Melton R7 listed on its own!

[Messenger]

Streitkid is out of the Mercury 80 - the only thing that can beat Catch A Wave now is himself

[Messenger]

The Ballarat Cup has to be the form race for the Hunter
Observations:
An easy lead for Copy That and he will be the one to beat again
Triple Eight had a dream run but could not finish it off - unless he has found improvement, he cannot win
Mach Dan was certainly held up and on the TAB he is now into $26
Honolua was a super run but taking the shortcuts again would be driving for luck - he is prepared to the minute but if driven for luck he should not be 2nd favourite, we know from the Inter that he does not have to rely on luck
RNR Doo was Awful
I Cast No Shadow had a dream run and was not good enough
Old Town Road, I do not know very well, his was a good run but I am not sure he can turn the tables on the first 2
Torrid Saint has little chance but he did not get a lot of room at the finish

oops Forgot Major Meister - a shocker, he wont be seeking the death again for a long time

Ballarat Cup replay

https://www.harness.org.au/racing/fields/race-fields/?mc=BA210123#BAM21012301

[aussiebreno]

Honolua Bay!! Way too good. Hopefully the bullshit commentary around him can stop now but it doesn't appear so yet on Trots Vision.

What a way to win a Gp1 Grand Circuit race....better than being gifted with gate 1 under a PBD!!!! Not that Louis connections would say that was a perfect draw!

[aussiebreno]

Was that Butt or Stanley on RNR Who?

[Messenger]

Fantastic win for Anne and Bill
David Moran is a top class driver

[Messenger]

Horses being pulled out of big races seems to be becoming more frequent
Choked down whatever, I do not remember it in the old days

[aussiebreno]

Probably the most exciting big race over the past few months. Vic Cup, ID, WA Cup all pretty flat affairs.

[Showgrounds]

Was that Butt or Stanley on RNR Who?

Butt, Stanley still sidelined.

The horse was beaten 62 metres, I would hope stewards ordered pre and post race vet checks on the horse given what the trainer said in the week prior.

The horse, as he looks at present, draws comparison with a Chiko Roll left all day in a bain marie. Over-hyped and over-cooked.

[aussiebreno]

Butt, Stanley still sidelined.

The horse was beaten 62 metres, I would hope stewards ordered pre and post race vet checks on the horse given what the trainer said in the week prior.

The horse, as he looks at present, draws comparison with a Chiko Roll left all day in a bain marie. Over-hyped and over-cooked.

Tongue in cheek due to quality of the drive!

[Messenger]

If you look at when Ants went I think you will see that he probably had to give him his head or else we may have had 2 choke down

[Showgrounds]

Probably the most exciting big race over the past few months. Vic Cup, ID, WA Cup all pretty flat affairs.

For sure, thank Jack Callaghan for that. A searing lead time meant an empty tank before they hit the home straight for a few, including Spirit of St Louis.

Do you buy the story that Copy That choked down? I go back to the last time the horse wasn't just handed the lead and had to tough it out, at Melton when it suffered a "minor" bleed. I didn't notice Blair Orange struggling too much to pull up the horse, if it was choking down it would have been pulling very hard. Yeah, it might have fired up when The Doo sprinted around, but the horse pulled up too easily for mine.

They'll be bleeding across The Ditch. No doubt the Lincoln Farms spinners and weavers will be at their creative best, digging deep into the box of theories.

Of the "workers" in the race, Old Town Road was outstanding. Do you agree with my assessment of the horse, Kev? And the chocolates went to Honolua Bacourtesy courtesy of a good barrier, a cool drive, a cold sit, the sprint lane and the ability to make use of all three.

A very enjoyable A. G. Hunter Cup.

[Showgrounds]

Tongue in cheek due to quality of the drive!

Drove to trainer's instructions, perhaps.

[aussiebreno]

I think the run of Mach Dan is to be commended too. In that early apeed burn from out wide and beat most of them home.

[Showgrounds]

Congratulations Anne and Bill Anderson, a well deserved result for what you have contributed as breeders and owners.

[Showgrounds]

Where was Emma Stewart tonight? The way the media talking heads were blabbing I thought Clayton Tonkin trained the winner.

[Showgrounds]

My man on the spot just informed me Copy That had a grade 3 bleed (remember Lochinvar Art? ) hand has been stood down for a month. Now going home to be prepared for The Race on 14 April.

[Bonnie]

Congratulations Anne and Bill Anderson, a well deserved result for what you have contributed as breeders and owners.

Thank you Trevor. A very special race to win . As a child my Saturday nights were spent at the Showgrounds so there’s a lot of history there. Honolua Bay had a serious suspensory injury as a 2 year old , followed by a throat operation. Probably a blessing in disguise that he didn’t race as a juvenile.

[Showgrounds]

Thank you Trevor. A very special race to win . As a child my Saturday nights were spent at the Showgrounds so there’s a lot of history there. Honolua Bay had a serious suspensory injury as a 2 year old , followed by a throat operation. Probably a blessing in disguise that he didn’t race as a juvenile.

He is a great advertisement for the rarest of commodities - patience.

[Messenger]

Continue picking the fields for races like the Victoria and Hunter Cups under the current criteria, but, and it’s a big but, keep one wildcard spot.

It’s about creating a way we can factor in some vital marketing, and PR flair to races like the Victoria and Hunter Cups when the opportunity arises.

https://www.thetrots.com.au/news/the-forum/hamilton/hamilton-plenty-of-glory-had-but-great-change-can-bring-more/