Vic Breeders Crown 2023

[Messenger]

We have two 2yo C&G heats and two 2yo Fillies heats at Bendigo tomorrow night
Just call them warm ups as all the horses will advance to the Semi's at Melton on Nov 18

https://www.harness.org.au/racing/fields/race-fields/?mc=BN081123

[trish]

We have two 2yo C&G heats and two 2yo Fillies heats at Bendigo tomorrow night
Just call them warm ups as all the horses will advance to the Semi's at Melton on Nov 18

https://www.harness.org.au/racing/fields/race-fields/?mc=BN081123

Interesting that the Fillies outweigh the boys.

[Messenger]

Not only was Lux Aeterna beaten (see her thread) but Storm Ryder was beaten for only the 2nd time

https://www.harness.org.au/racing/fields/race-fields/?mc=BN081123#BNC08112301

[Messenger]

We have the 3yo heats at Ballarat tonight but once again they are just warm ups as there are only 2 for each sex so they can all go through to the Semis.
It is not a good sign that we don't even need heats

https://www.harness.org.au/racing/fields/race-fields/?mc=BA101123#BAC10112303

[Messenger]

Not only did we not need both heats and semis, there will not be many eliminated from the semis on Saturday night as the fields are small and I am assuming a full field of 12 for the Finals

I cannot see how this can be read as anything other than an indicator of industry decline

https://www.harness.org.au/racing/fields/race-fields/?mc=MX181123

[aussiebreno]

I am convinced the Sky presenter didnt know Just Believe and Queen Elida from a maiden. Lets see how he goes with the pacers.

[Messenger]

Oh dear! I am on TrotsVision
A gallops person?
My S-I-L makes his living from racing and he would not know them

[Messenger]

Just Believe, first up, taking 0.5 seconds off the Bendigo Tk Rec was impressive

[aussiebreno]

Oh dear! I am on TrotsVision
A gallops person?
My S-I-L makes his living from racing and he would not know them

He didnt know pacers either. Couldn't even pronounce Mach Dan.

[Messenger]

I know a Sky presenter should swot up but as I said, many gallops professionals would not know a single harness horse
Maybe JB can get a job with Sky

[Messenger]

With a scratching in the last race - all 6 will qualify for the final
THAT MEANS all these 6 will make the final without any chance of being eliminated in a heat or a final
The Final should be stripped of Gp1 status

[aussiebreno]

RNR Who may become RNR Wow if driven as a sit sprinter. Dont let 'tough' death seat victories in Vic Cup and Len Smith fool you. They were sit sprint affairs. The Westburn Grant at Melton a couple months ago and last night were two ripper performances when raced as a sit sprinter.

[aussiebreno]

The Final should be stripped of Gp1 status
Regardless of how they got there the finals still going to have around 4 or 5 of the top10 2yos in the country

[trish]

IMO , the fields show the decline, that is harness racing.
Now, why has this happened?

[Messenger]

IMO , the fields show the decline, that is harness racing.
Now, why has this happened?
Yes, I am there tonight
I think I will start a thread

[Messenger]

Mark Pitt drives 5 winners for the Stewart stable then he costs the stable 9 wins from 9 races when he beats them in the last (the stable did not have a runner in R7)
Good luck to the Taibas winning the last, seriously their family made up a dozen of the 2 dozen who were watching the last race
They will be a big chance in the Final but Kingman/David Moran knew all 6 runners were going to qualify
David Moran would probably drive a couple of races differently (if it was next week) but he still got a couple of winners

[Jasper]

How did Captain Ravishing’s run look ie from the track? Has he come back etc?

[Messenger]

It was fairly good. I was surprised Pitt pushed forward as it was only ever going to result in him being stuck in the death. We are still yet to see if he has the fight to finish off a race up the straight but we were unlikely to find that out by death seating against Catch A Wave

[Jasper]

True re sitting outside of Catch A Wave. Your fortunate having these two racing over there at the moment. Let’s hope he gets back to his very best soon.

[Messenger]

If you (like me) were wondering where Greg Sugars was last night - he was up at Menangle driving 3 winners

[Messenger]

https://www.harness.org.au/racing/fields/race-fields/?mc=MX251123

Finals fields out

Wouldn't you love to have a horse with Rockinwithattitude's luck - 16 out of 26 times she has drawn 1, 2 or 3

Nathan Street drawing 1 has made it interesting

But you would have to say that the Stewart stable has drawn well in all 4 big finals

[Messenger]

It has been suggested to me that maybe the Breeders Crown and even Vicbred (where people pay up to remain eligible) have had their day

An awful lot of prizemoney is not only going to 2yo's and 3yo's but a lot of the same people are winning it

Who is it benefiting other than the big stables (and the stud farms and the sales companies)

With the government making cutbacks and people not paying up for these series like they used to, HRV are probably subsidizing this big prizemoney.

We can still have some good prizemoney for the better juvenile races but not at a cost to the whole industry

A thought provoking suggestion

[Messenger]

In the pacing finals, stablemates being the main chances does not engender much excitement IMO

[aussiebreno]

At least we will get to see the Cranbourne and Bendigo Cup winner go around. :p Interesting McCarthy is on Like A Wildfire when Pitt doesn't have a drive in the race.

Probably most looking forward to the 2yo boys. BigBoss not the worst $51 shot I've ever seen. Few more chances short in the market compared to most races.

[Messenger]

Yes, I am looking forward to the 2yo boys the most but I was thinking more so because of Nathan Street providing a threat to THE stable

That Cranbourne and Bendigo Cup winner is another that Grimson did not keep in the barn for very long.
We also have the most recent Swan Hill, Terang, Cobram, Yarra Valley and Horsham Cup winners in that race too.
It mustn't be a bad race

[aussiebreno]

Yes, I am looking forward to the 2yo boys the most but I was thinking more so because of Nathan Street providing a threat to THE stable

That Cranbourne and Bendigo Cup winner is another that Grimson did not keep in the barn for very long.
We also have the most recent Swan Hill, Terang, Cobram, Yarra Valley and Horsham Cup winners in that race too.
It mustn't be a bad race

Yeah agree re Nathan St.

All those Country Cups and I don't think that even includes previous Gp1 Chariots and Gp1 Vic Cup winners! Its a pretty red hot race. We place a lot of focus on these juvenile races but here are horses that have accomplished a lot in open age racing and they're been totally glossed over when in reality theres probably only a couple in each juvenile race who may eclipse these older horses records.

[Messenger]

That is the reasoning behind the suggestion in post 22 - too much money going into juvenile races (few of whom go on) at the expense of the owners of the wider horse population

[aussiebreno]

That is the reasoning behind the suggestion in post 22 - too much money going into juvenile races (few of whom go on) at the expense of the owners of the wider horse population

Yep. I can understand the focus to get quicker ROI but thats only happening for a few anyway. I think for punting and fans that long jeapordy of older horses is better - if these top horses were racing for $30k Gp3s a bit more often there is more of a narrative to write and capture fans. The FFA has got prime timeslot but be interesting to compare pools tonight. Remembering the Finals have got prime advertising as well so that works in their favour.

[Messenger]

I don't know whether my favourite viewing spot - the Scotch Notch cafe, is open to the public tonight (I actually attended last week because I was afraid it might not be) but I have noticed from the TrotsVision coverage that there seems to be a marque right in front of my favourite end of the glass wall - surely they haven't obscured the view of the track!

[aussiebreno]

Well Nathan St galloping ruined what we spoke about early.

N Jack has been on fire tonight in these finals (save for possibly drifting out in front of one with 200m to go just then) he just hasnt had the horsepower. 3 10/10 drives in a row for mine.

[Messenger]

Nice place dividend there for The Bigboss Brendan. The horse is VERY green (paced roughly down back) and may make a better 3yo
Amazingly short Timmy Rictor - that was only his 6th start
Modern Art is known for Lochinvar Art and I can see this fella following in his footsteps

[Messenger]

4 Gp1 Pacing Finals - 4 Wins Emma Stewart
I wonder if she is there? I don't think she was there last week

[aussiebreno]

N Jack you star. You know what I think of trotters and Vol Thorens has as bad a galloping record as any but it had talent and N Jack aboard and was too good.

[Messenger]

The Trotting Gp1's from 4 different stables - refreshing

[Messenger]

The other thing with the pacing finals is the fact that to any other than the rusted on (plus some of those) - they would be boring. Three leaders and one outside the leader won. Economically it may not be the right time But maybe we need to look at lengthening the track by at least 100m = 50m+ more straight.
Whatever happened to the supposed development of the infield?

[Messenger]

I know you cannot keep them all but I do wonder why Tubbs & Sugars sold Not As Promised

[Yabbie]

I don't know whether my favourite viewing spot - the Scotch Notch cafe, is open to the public tonight (I actually attended last week because I was afraid it might not be) but I have noticed from the TrotsVision coverage that there seems to be a marque right in front of my favourite end of the glass wall - surely they haven't obscured the view of the track!
Scotch Notch Cafe was not open to public. Used as an owners function area for those who had runners. There was a choice for owners between Scotch Notch or dining in Telern Room

[Messenger]

Thanks for the heads up Carol
With all 5 function rooms empty last week, I would have thought they could still find room this week without closing off the true 'viewing' publics favourite - I anticipated it and thus why I went last week not last night

[trish]

https://www.thetrots.com.au/news/the-forum/hamilton/hamilton-breeders-crown-needs-a-well-deserved-revamp/

"no one single factor has driven the decline".

I disagree.

[Messenger]

Here are some quotes from the above Adam Hamilton article

there is no disputing the once great event is nowhere near what it used to be.

It had a real point of difference in those formative years when held at Bendigo from 1998 to 2004. Cranbourne had a crack in 2005, then Ballarat in 2006 and ’07 before returning to its spiritual home at Bendigo in 2008.
Then, for reasons still largely unknown, it was moved to Melton.
The Breeders Crown lost its soul. It became just another big race (and in its case series) run amongst many others at Melton.

Then, 2019 saw another fork in the road.
Running Crown qualifying heats in all Australian states and both islands of New Zealand were scrapped.
It wasn’t a huge shock because the system wasn’t a good look for the industry with small fields, sometimes just two or three runners, and we even had a few walkovers with just one runner accepting for a heat.
But abolishing those heats had a marked impact on the broad reach and interest in the Breeders Crown.
And the number of horses being paid-up for it.

Make it a “Grand Finals” series for eligible, paid-up horses. They collect points along the way through a variety of races and qualifying clauses across Australia and NZ and the top point scorers go straight into the finals.

with the number of horses being paid-up dwindling, the Crown is – or many would say already has – becoming non-viable.
The "brand" of the Breeders Crown still has value so let’s be daring and try something different to save what was once one of the sport’s biggest and most exciting events.

[trish]

Yes . That's all fine .

I still believe it is the same reason everything is falling apart.

[Messenger]

Some people will say D for Dominance some will say D for Drugs but with that last one we have to say D for Don't Know as we have no proof.
I think it is more than just one of the above and which Adam didn't really say directly - product. We are not attracting enough interest - if it isn't that our product is boring to most other than the rusted ons then it is marketing the product that is letting us down

[aussiebreno]

There could be many elements to it but success breeds success and Stewarts now get first crack at the best bred horses in the country.

A comparison of the winner V highest placed opposition trained horse dams in the 4x Crown finals.

2yo colts - Timmy Rictor dam raced in NSW and Vic Oaks and won a $20K M0. BigBoss dam unraced.
2yo fillies - Very Pretty dam won a Tatlow, 2x $20K Mares at Melton a $25K Listed at Melton and 3rd in Queen of the Pacific V Lux Auterna dam best win a $12K Menangle 3yo progressed to be about a C4.
3yo colts - Perfect Class dam 4th in her 4yo Vicbred but here the runners up Final Collect dam had the superior record winning a couple big feature early season 2yo races in NZ, however it then did F all couldn't win a lowly C1 at Menangle on a Tuesday from about 10 goes as an older horse. But going back to Perfect Class granddam and its dam siblings Perfect Class is still the superior bred horse.
3yo fillies - Major Delights dam Lady Euthenia was one of the best 2yos fillies we've ever seen and backed it up with a NSW Oaks win at 3. First Dance dam rocketed to a C5 with a good picket fence but couldn't win its M0.

So on breeding every day of the week you are taking Team Stewart in all 4 majors.

[Messenger]

A few $20k Silvers at Bendigo tonight

https://www.harness.org.au/racing/fields/race-fields/?mc=BN301123