Check the Tote Board before ruling on the Protest

[triplev123]

What an absolute bloody joke this one is.
Race 4 at Melton this evening.
The decision to dismiss would have had nothing to do with a $1.10 shot hanging up the track and clipping the fast finishing $16+ horse...nah, never...perish the thought.
You stuffed that one up very nicely HRV Stewards. S-H-O-C-K-E-R!

[mightymo]

i watched the race VVV, but hate to tell you that whilst the winner did drift up the track, i dont believe the second horse was going to win. A the time of the interference, i thought he was maintaining his margin

[Danno]

IMO Stipes had to take that race off the winner, can't agree with you Harvey, the second horse was still rapidly gathering in the leader at the point of the interference.

[Greg Hando]

I thought the race would have been taken off them as well.The outside horse put in a couple of rough one's as well when it was checked and stopped what momentum he had going for him ,i also think he just about would have got there had the interference not occurred IMO.

[mightymo]

i have gone and watched the replay a few more times and my earlier view is not as strong. I think it would have been very, very close.

[triplev123]

You can bet your left & right Cojones that if the positions were reversed and it was the $16+ shot that drifted late & hampered the $1.10 shot rolling home then the protest would have been UPHELD. No risk at all. As good a wager as the Sun rising in the East.

Generally speaking, it has never ceased to amaze me how many horses will hang or drift INTO the path of a challenger coming at them from the rear, be it either to their inside or to their outside. How many ever go the other way?
How many have you seen drift away and open up the lane like Moses parting the Red Sea?

If the Stewards are not prepared to uphold a protest under those circumstances then they may as well do away with the right to protest altogther...because that dismissal made an absolute mockery of the process.

Derryn Hinch said it best. Shame. Shame. Shame.

[A BIT DUSTY]

You can bet your left & right Cojones that if the positions were reversed and it was the $16+ shot that drifted late & hampered the $1.10 shot rolling home then the protest would have been UPHELD. No risk at all. As good a wager as the Sun rising in the East.

Generally speaking, it has never ceased to amaze me how many horses will hang or drift INTO the path of a challenger coming at them from the rear, be it either to their inside or to their outside. How many ever go the other way?
How many have you seen drift away and open up the lane like Moses parting the Red Sea?

If the Stewards are not prepared to uphold a protest under those circumstances then they may as well do away with the right to protest altogther...because that dismissal made an absolute mockery of the process.

Derryn Hinch said it best. Shame. Shame. Shame.

Hi Jamie Mate I don't know if you was on the second horse or not ,but gee Iv'e watched the replay 10 times and I couldn't say with absolute certain that the second horse was going to win and that is what the stipes have to be. I agree it was going to be close but it was under hard driving before the turn and looked to be struggling , I'm not certain that it was going to make up 1/2 length in 50 mtrs but that's just my opinion .

[triplev123]

Hi Jamie Mate I don't know if you was on the second horse or not ,but gee Iv'e watched the replay 10 times and I couldn't say with absolute certain that the second horse was going to win and that is what the stipes have to be. I agree it was going to be close but it was under hard driving before the turn and looked to be struggling , I'm not certain that it was going to make up 1/2 length in 50 mtrs but that's just my opinion .


[VVV] Nah, I wasn't on the 2nd horse Denny although by rights I really should have been.
It has a heap of ability (check out the replay of its last start at 2yrs with Brian Gath in the bike) It comes up in my Black Book thingo but I forgot that it was in & watched the replay when I got home. My interest is via his American Ideal half sister we have in work in NZ.

The way I see it...
As they straightened up Puppet's horse was around 1 to 1 & 1/2 bikes from the pegs...and Matt Purcell had come off the inside and got his horse's nose onto Puppet's helmet at that point.
He then charts a straight path to the wire...& while Puppet's horse initially goes straight, as the challenge comes it commences to get up the track....and it continues to do so until it's out to around 3 bikes from the sprint lane (not the pegs) in the stretch.
In the process it clips Fearless Leader's BACK legs with the outside wheel duly causing it to break stride & lose all momentum.
The leader's passage is then corrected and at the wire it went back to around 1 to 1 & 1/2 bikes or so from the pegs.
Despite getting its head to the eventual winner's girth while the winner commenced to drift the 2nd place horse is beaten by 2m. How that was not upheld is beyond me. The front on vision
I would dearly love to be on as good a thing at the track that had the respective positions been reversed that the protest would have been upheld. A $16+ shot drifts 3 bikes in the lane and clips a 10's on fav. and it's Protest Upheld. No risk.

[A BIT DUSTY]

[VVV] Nah, I wasn't on the 2nd horse Denny although by rights I really should have been.
It has a heap of ability (check out the replay of its last start at 2yrs with Brian Gath in the bike) It comes up in my Black Book thingo but I forgot that it was in & watched the replay when I got home. My interest is via his American Ideal half sister we have in work in NZ.

The way I see it...
As they straightened up Puppet's horse was around 1 to 1 & 1/2 bikes from the pegs...and Matt Purcell had come off the inside and got his horse's nose onto Puppet's helmet at that point.
He then charts a straight path to the wire...& while Puppet's horse initially goes straight, as the challenge comes it commences to get up the track....and it continues to do so until it's out to around 3 bikes from the sprint lane (not the pegs) in the stretch.
In the process it clips Fearless Leader's BACK legs with the outside wheel duly causing it to break stride & lose all momentum.
The leader's passage is then corrected and at the wire it went back to around 1 to 1 & 1/2 bikes or so from the pegs.
Despite getting its head to the eventual winner's girth while the winner commenced to drift the 2nd place horse is beaten by 2m. How that was not upheld is beyond me. The front on vision
I would dearly love to be on as good a thing at the track that had the respective positions been reversed that the protest would have been upheld. A $16+ shot drifts 3 bikes in the lane and clips a 10's on fav. and it's Protest Upheld. No risk.

Mate I agree with just about every thing you have pointed out ,but the fact I had to watch the replay 10 times and still couldn't decide weather matty's horse was gunna get up is probably the same reason the stipes couldn't be 100% sure either. there is no doubt of the interference just weather it altered the outcome. I think Mightymo had some doubt as well , in the stewards case if they have some doubt they have to dismiss. I totally agree with your thoughts on the betting playing a part in the outcome of other steward decissions as iv'e seen it happen many times, I'm just not sure about this one.

[Thevoiceofreason]

Not weighing in with an opinion on the decision because I would like to see the head on view but you guys keep making the mistake of saying stewards have to be 100% before upholding a protest that is not accurate,

The accepted burden of proof for a protest both codes world wide is "comfortable satisfaction." which is loosely defined as

"Greater than a mere balance of probability but less than proof beyond a reasonable doubt"

On this burden upheld looks a better bet but you need to see the head on for mine.

[triplev123]

On that score...whenever a protest is lodged & regardless of it subsequently being upheld or in this case dismissed, along with the normal race footage I wonder why don't we have the applicable head on /Steward's patrol footage of the incident ALSO uploaded to the National Website?
It can't be that difficult a thing to do surely? We could even go so far as to place a link to the footage in the Stewards Report of the race/s in question.
Tech Heads...comments please? Where's Andy Myers when we need him the most? Ground Control to Andy...come in Andy.

[A BIT DUSTY]

On that score...whenever a protest is lodged & regardless of it subsequently being upheld or in this case dismissed, along with the normal race footage I wonder why don't we have the applicable head on /Steward's patrol footage of the incident ALSO uploaded to the National Website?
It can't be that difficult a thing to do surely? We could even go so far as to place a link to the footage in the Stewards Report of the race/s in question.
Tech Heads...comments please? Where's Andy Myers when we need him the most? Ground Control to Andy...come in Andy.

Good call Jamie I have asked this question many a time and always get the same answer " it cost too much " what a load of crap how much extra could it be to show 20 secs of the head on footage in every race just to give the viewing public a greater perspective of the race. I have watched stewards patrol footage of races at Newcastle and if the public got to see this version instead of what they get I think you would see an increase in turnover . The patrol footage shows the horses close up especially in the back straight were as the T.V footage the horses are that far away they look like ants.

[David Summers]

Denny speaking of that "closeup" vision of horses in the back straight, what is your opinion of the split screen vision we usually see of harness races in NZ broadcast on Sky ?

I really like seeing the two shots, one the standard view and at the top of the screen (when they are in the back straight) a real closeup of each individual horse in the field. I would really like to see that in operation with the Sky Menangle coverage.

[A BIT DUSTY]

Denny speaking of that "closeup" vision of horses in the back straight, what is your opinion of the split screen vision we usually see of harness races in NZ broadcast on Sky ?

I really like seeing the two shots, one the standard view and at the top of the screen (when they are in the back straight) a real closeup of each individual horse in the field. I would really like to see that in operation with the Sky Menangle coverage.

David I would love to see us have the same split screen footage hear , it gives you a ring side view, you can almost see the drivers thinking , I believe it's the same old story that it's too hard or too expensive.

[triplev123]

I agree Denny. Costs too much....my hairy arse. In this day and age there's absolutely no way known that including applicable footage of a protested incident would be cost prohibitive.
The crew at Harbor TV are amongst the most obliging people that I've met in a long time and Andy Myers is as smart as a whip when it comes to such things. If they were asked about how to do this I'm sure they'd get together & find a way to make it work. I think we're onto something here. Interesting to see who's going to be the first to pick up the ball and run with it.

[A BIT DUSTY]

I agree Denny. Costs too much....my hairy arse. In this day and age there's absolutely no way known that including applicable footage of a protested incident would be cost prohibitive.
The crew at Harbor TV are amongst the most obliging people that I've met in a long time and Andy Myers is as smart as a whip when it comes to such things. If they were asked about how to do this I'm sure they'd get together & find a way to make it work. I think we're onto something here. Interesting to see who's going to be the first to pick up the ball and run with it.


You know one of my favorite sayings is IF NOTHING CHANGES ,THEN NOTHING CHANGES, so tomorrow I'll ring Ross Gigg at Newcastle and ask him why they don't show the back straight footage that the stewards use to the public and see the reason behind it .

[aussiebreno]

In breaking news just to hand the Newcaslte Harness Racing Club are going to leave the phone off the hook for the next week.

[A BIT DUSTY]

In breaking news just to hand the Newcaslte Harness Racing Club are going to leave the phone off the hook for the next week.

Just as well I have Ross Giggs mobile number

[Thevoiceofreason]

Just as well I have Ross Giggs mobile number

Boys Sam is the man to fix this one not Ross and with a push it will happen.