Change to on-course arrival times by HRNSW

[David Summers]

http://www.harnesslink.com/www/Article.cgi?ID=94625

[triplev123]

Pre race TC02 testing them's not going to achieve a whole lot anyway.
Post race however, that's another matter. I'm not aware of a single jurisdiction anywhere in the US or CAN that Pre Race tests for their TC02's.

[tiny]

They had to change it cause after they rub out those paying the stewards and those with high TCO2. Those that one TCO2 over the other under. There was going to be no one left and it was getting hard to make up the fields.

[Flashing Red]

Pre race TC02 testing them's not going to achieve a whole lot anyway.
Post race however, that's another matter. I'm not aware of a single jurisdiction anywhere in the US or CAN that Pre Race tests for their TC02's.

Penslyvanian tracks (ie Chester, Poconos) do. EVERY horse is done before the race, if you're over its just a scratch and fine. But they ALSO post race TC02 the winners and a random horse. The PA tracks have their own oncourse TC02 testing so the whole process is quite easy for them.

Yonkers pre race TC02 random races (ie the whole field) about 5 minutes before the horses are on the track to race. Like Pa, the also post race TC02 random horses in most races, however they are not necessarily the winners every time. Unlike Pa they don't have an oncourse TC02 machine however....

I think its very disappointing personally for the on course arrival time to be changed back from 2 hours to 1 hour. Shows a fundamental flaw in the knowledge and/or belief of those making these decisions on how certain substances work, especially those that can elevate the TC02 level. :( Hopefully Menangle and ALL tracks see the light and move to 2 hour on course arrival in the near future.... :)

[racefair]

Pre race testing slowed a few trainers up and so it will be interesting to see gross improvements by trainers closer to tracks. Sure, you can hold horses back however getting them to get to the track 2 hours before was an easy way to control bicarbonate doping.
I'm also curious as to why this rule has been changed? What is the driver behind it and why change it?

[Starship Captain]

I'm with you Racefair, Does anyone have the answer?

Question- In the whole world where is the best working model for harness racing?
From what I have read the racing at the Japan thoroughbred tracks is regarded as the bench mark with in the gallops world.
The Harness racing equal is...............?

Flashing Red or anyone who can answer, Is there a list of drugs that are currently being tested for by stewards? & are trainers
given a list? or how does this work?

[Flashing Red]

Flashing Red or anyone who can answer, Is there a list of drugs that are currently being tested for by stewards? & are trainers
given a list? or how does this work?

Not as far as I am aware but giving a list I don't think would be the best thing to do, ie giving people a heads up of what will be tested so they can use other substances that aren't.

In the US each state published a booklet every season (or at least updated when needed) a list of substances and their withdrawal periods. I think this is a good idea as you know where you stand on everything. If you have ever asked multiple vets the withdrawal of a particular substance, the variatation in their answers is alarming. For example I have heard between 3 days to 5 days for Flunixon. That sort of variation isn't acceptable NOR fair to the trainers. It is no defence that you used the withdrawal periods stated by your vet.... a booklet that has all commonly used substances and their withdrawals would allow trainers to more readily comply with the rules. :)

[triplev123]

Penslyvanian tracks (ie Chester, Poconos) do. EVERY horse is done before the race, if you're over its just a scratch and fine. But they ALSO post race TC02 the winners and a random horse. The PA tracks have their own oncourse TC02 testing so the whole process is quite easy for them.

Yonkers pre race TC02 random races (ie the whole field) about 5 minutes before the horses are on the track to race. Like Pa, the also post race TC02 random horses in most races, however they are not necessarily the winners every time. Unlike Pa they don't have an oncourse TC02 machine however....

I think its very disappointing personally for the on course arrival time to be changed back from 2 hours to 1 hour. Shows a fundamental flaw in the knowledge and/or belief of those making these decisions on how certain substances work, especially those that can elevate the TC02 level. :( Hopefully Menangle and ALL tracks see the light and move to 2 hour on course arrival in the near future.... :)


[VVV] Thanks Tahn. Your fleshing out of the picture is very much appreciated.
Perhaps the 1hr prior will be bolstered by 2hrs post & that will now be more often in play?
I'd have thought there'd be much more of a chance to detect offenders in the 2hrs post race period than 2hrs prior prior.

[triplev123]

SC, there's a fairly easily obtainable 99 page Word Document from RMTC (Racing Medication & Testing Consortium) which lists so many substances and their withdrawl times in various jurisdictions that it will spin your head. None of it applies here in AUS of course but the list...geeze....on and on and on it goes and where it stops, nobody knows.

[Starship Captain]

Thank's guy's,
Someone did show me the little booklets from the US and I was wondering what information is made avaliable to trainers in AU & NZ.
IMO there should be a booklet the same for vets and trainers, strapers, owners etc. With this there is no mistaking the requirements.

[Flashing Red]

[VVV] Thanks Tahn. Your fleshing out of the picture is very much appreciated.
Perhaps the 1hr prior will be bolstered by 2hrs post & that will now be more often in play?
I'd have thought there'd be much more of a chance to detect offenders in the 2hrs post race period than 2hrs prior prior.

Non lasix horses have to be on course approx. 2 hours beforehand, give or take about 15 mins at each track. Lasix horses are 4 hours beforehand.

Arriving on course at least 2 hours before your race and random post race TC02 have made TC02 infractions all but extinct in North America.... they are VERY rare. The same cannot be said in the Southern Hemisphere. Arriving 2 hours before your race is just once (vital) piece of the puzzle to nip this practice in the bud.... the other being post race TC02 testing.

[racefair]

Thanks for the info Tahn. So, just to be clear. Are you saying that changing the on course arrival time from 2 hours to 1 hour will open it up for trainers to bicarb their horses without being caught? If so, then I'd be outraged if I was a legitimate trainer or owner.

[teecee]

Thank's guy's,
Someone did show me the little booklets from the US and I was wondering what information is made avaliable to trainers in AU & NZ.
IMO there should be a booklet the same for vets and trainers, strapers, owners etc. With this there is no mistaking the requirements.

This topic is really interesting...
At a meeting of the NZ trainers and drivers assn a few months back it was asked of Cameron George if trainers could get a list of drugs / medications and withholding periods.
His response was one of shocked amazement that we didn't have it already.
He was going to take it up with EVA (Equine Vets Assn)
As you probably know , or if you dont, Mr George is our Aussie Chief Stipe..!!!!!!

Currently no response to his enquiry at EVA..!!!!

[p plater]

This topic is really interesting...
At a meeting of the NZ trainers and drivers assn a few months back it was asked of Cameron George if trainers could get a list of drugs / medications and withholding periods.
His response was one of shocked amazement that we didn't have it already.
He was going to take it up with EVA (Equine Vets Assn)
As you probably know , or if you dont, Mr George is our Aussie Chief Stipe..!!!!!!

Currently no response to his enquiry at EVA..!!!!

TC, no surprise there, Cameron George or Mr. Teflon has never been responsible for errors or oversights, it's always someone else under his control. He would win every "pass the parcel" competition or perhaps a good rugby player who never gets caught with the ball. Word has it he practices that shock/horror expression every night in front of a mirror

[Old Frank]

I don't agree with this change at all. Only opens up to more drenching done prior to on-course arrival.