Harness racing shame

[Dmoore]

Well what a year for nsw harness racing!
Why has it taken over 5 months for nsw harness led by Sam Nati and Reid sanders to lay even 1 yes 1 charge against anyone implicated in the nsw corruption scandal. Shame, shame,shame!! You are weak and should resign immediately!!
The police have already run their cases for harness racing to use and there heads are spinning not knowing what to do.
How embarrassing all this going on under their noses and no action taken against anyone involved other than some minor players being warned off. Why pay these people if their Not going to protect our sport???

[Danno]

Well what a year for nsw harness racing!
Why has it taken over 5 months for nsw harness led by Sam Nati and Reid sanders to lay even 1 yes 1 charge against anyone implicated in the nsw corruption scandal. Shame, shame,shame!! You are weak and should resign immediately!!
The police have already run their cases for harness racing to use and there heads are spinning not knowing what to do.
How embarrassing all this going on under their noses and no action taken against anyone involved other than some minor players being warned off. Why pay these people if their Not going to protect our sport???

Doug,
I would hope,. like all of us, that we are only seeing the preliminary so far, time will tell how efficient this investigation is in the long term.

I think I speak, ( but I may or may not) for most of the folks in the game when I say " give them the strength and the wherewithall to finalise this investgation and see it through to it's finality. There has always been a few "players" in our game and mosty of us take that as a given, but this recent event has rocked the game to it's core.

I have been a participant, on many levels, over about 40 years and I have never seen anything remotley like what has been happening latley, I'm not going to pretend I have the answers, cos I don't.............but geez it would be nice to KNOW we are all playing on the same paddock

[barney]

Spoke to a guy Saturday and he is heavily involved and he said basicaly the same only wants a level playing field, and not have to race against horses that have as he puts it rocket fuel.

[peteboss4]

Hi guys . Have been reading everyones comments on Harness Link . Lets be honest . This betting scandal has been going on for over 20 years . It was red hot at Harold Park and it evolved to what it is today at Menangle . 2 stewards who resigned after having dinner with a disqualified person are probably still involved not to mention the guy they had dinner with . You guys think you've got it bad , I'm from the Hunter and corruption has been so bad up here that if you gave time to all those involved you wouldn't be able to run a meeting and it still flourishes like onion weed . Its odd that the CEO and cheif steward resigned before it all broke loose and then we end up with Sam who was good mates with Chris Gleeson . This sport is evaporating . Every year less participants , less foals , less good guys , more crims .

[ringman]

Like i have always said the problem is you have people investigating this that were privy to rorting going on for years:rolleyes: and they are old friends with some under investigation now.

Its clear HRNSW cant get to the bottom of it so take it out of their hands and let someone take over who will clear it up and not leave one rorter still training or driving.

5/4 this thread gets locked

[mango]

Hey Greg
How much can i lay lol. On a serious note i think it's good to have the police and other people outside the industry involved in the inquiry as there can be know stuff getting swept under the carpet. I think most of us would like to see this matter dealt with quickly but the fact is this is alot bigger than most people could imagine and to get everyone invloved and stamp them out for good will take time and that's time i would give them to clean up harness racing and give every honest hard working person a level playing field.

[ringman]

Dallas 3000 to 2400 CASH ONLY;)

Yes its a lot bigger i agree and like you i dont care how long it takes so long as no mates are looked after and they are not allowed back after getting their sentences(would a bank remploy a crook teller)
I have seen lots of hard working battling trainers giving 110 % to their team but it was no good because of what they were up against.its sad to see them put time and effort in while a select few just add a potion.

The way its going we will get back to the day Prince Pepper was backed from 25s to 5/4 at menagle in a mile race it led (what a surprise) behind it was 3 lines of 3 the entire race no horse went 4 deep to improve they went to the line under a stranglehold and ran i think about 2.12 for the mile or was it 2.16.

They suspended every driver in the race except 2 i think

[p plater]

From my angle there is a couple of things which need to be said.

1) Don't for one minute think that harness racing is the only racing code with "shifty players", IMO our sport can be hang out to dry while the Thoroughbred industry is so BIG it is not permitted to come under the same scrutiny, they seem to contact their major players with a "Cool It" when they get red hot.

2) I understand the past Chief Steward was unable to uncover any problems when Sam identified a strange pattern. To his credit after the Chief steward departed ( and he loved Newcastle) Sam had a new person investigate and we are now where we are. Go Sam, it may take time to get it right but I'll wait.

[A BIT DUSTY]

From my angle there is a couple of things which need to be said.

1) Don't for one minute think that harness racing is the only racing code with "shifty players", IMO our sport can be hang out to dry while the Thoroughbred industry is so BIG it is not permitted to come under the same scrutiny, they seem to contact their major players with a "Cool It" when they get red hot.

2) I understand the past Chief Steward was unable to uncover any problems when Sam identified a strange pattern. To his credit after the Chief steward departed ( and he loved Newcastle) Sam had a new person investigate and we are now where we are. Go Sam, it may take time to get it right but I'll wait.


P Plater going on your handle one assumes you are new to the game , because if you wasn't you would know that the previous Chief Steward uncovered PLENTY and rightly charged and suspended them for lengthy suspensions , only to have them beat the raps on appeal . If you want to have a go at someone why not read the appeal transactions and try and work out how these supposedly inteligent men ( legal heads) can not see what is so clear to normal thinking minds. The stewards can only do their best , but at the end of the day it is usually someone with no or very little harness knowledge that has the final say.

[Dmoore]

Why dont they do a proper investigation and start at the very top of harness racing.....im sure they would be amazed with what they find!!! It should be an external investigation undertaken by people independent of hrnsw by professional and ethical people......then people could have confidence in the sport

[Thevoiceofreason]

Why dont they do a proper investigation and start at the very top of harness racing.....im sure they would be amazed with what they find!!! It should be an external investigation undertaken by people independent of hrnsw by professional and ethical people......then people could have confidence in the sport

I think you will find the NSW Police force are external of HRNSW and if they find the corruption is further up the ladder they will act I am sure.

[Dmoore]

Its funy how Saunders charged the people already in trouble with the police including Sarinas who were mentioned in the charge sheets.........why doesnt the bloke just let the police run their own inquiries first without interfering and sticking his two cents in.....I am sure you will find a much better outcome at the end of the day if any power is taken away from someone like him!!!

[peteboss4]

Spoke to a guy Saturday and he is heavily involved and he said basicaly the same only wants a level playing field, and not have to race against horses that have as he puts it rocket fuel.

Agree with him. Would be nice if that could happen, wouldn't it. Maybe then i wouldn't be thinking of selling up & getting out cause lets face it along with the cheats & the Mac attack its very hard to win a race.

[barney]

The Mac attack as you put it is not healthy for the sport one stable dominating takes a lot of interest out of it.Seemed a couple of weeks ago Emma Stewarts stable in Vic was doing the same but have come back to the field with a bang last week with several runners runs queried.Who knows why.We can all surmise i guess but doesnt do the sport as a betting proposition any good at all.

[barney]

The names the guy i was talking to mentioned that he suspects (knows) are using the rocket fuel was quite surprising and he feels they will get away with it .I said they will get caught but he didnt think so as he said was synthetic therefore no traces left.
Maybe the powers that be should visit the stables day after race and see the condition of horses then.

[Thevoiceofreason]

Its funy how Saunders charged the people already in trouble with the police including Sarinas who were mentioned in the charge sheets.........why doesnt the bloke just let the police run their own inquiries first without interfering and sticking his two cents in.....I am sure you will find a much better outcome at the end of the day if any power is taken away from someone like him!!!

This just proves how idiotic your posts are, in your first post on this thread you bag HRNSW for no charges ... now you bag them for laying charges, talk about not being able to win.

At least it has been a good time of the year for you lately you have been able to boo Santa Claus ... don't worry Easter will come up soon enough and you can line the bunny up.

[peteboss4]

Years ago C Gleeson was winning everything & i think trainers just stopped nomanating as they couldn't see the point racing for 3rd etc, (he had the 2nd placed horse lots to) same could happen here, and you are right it is not good for the sport when its being dominated like it is. Im not being disrespectful to Luke, although i may get hung for the comment, so be it.

[mightymo]

On current stats, Luke currently trains around 1 winner from every 3 starters.

The leading trainer in NZ with a similar type of stable, is Mark Purdon. For the current season, he has had 205 starters for 57 winners and a better than 1 in 4 winning percentage.

I dont see too many people complaining about Mark's success...

[peteboss4]

Harvey , with respect Mark is in NZ . I am talking about NSW.

[mightymo]

Some more figures worth considering:

Vic
Dean Braun - 38%
Kerryn Manning - 34%
Adam Kelly - 33%

SA
Les harding 37%
Jon Kingston - Mayne - 32%

Compare this with Luke - 35.3% and you will see that the best trainers in each state and country are all tracking at around the same numbers.

PS - I cant seem to find info for WA and QLD

[Dmoore]

This just proves how idiotic your posts are, in your first post on this thread you bag HRNSW for no charges ... now you bag them for laying charges, talk about not being able to win.

At least it has been a good time of the year for you lately you have been able to boo Santa Claus ... don't worry Easter will come up soon enough and you can line the bunny up.

Let me spell it out plain and clear simple one.....the police are in the best position to investigate this scandal.....sanders/Beattie are cops trying to be prosecutors! This is one for the big boys not amateur hour

[Greg Hando]

The Mac attack as you put it is not healthy for the sport one stable dominating takes a lot of interest out of it.Seemed a couple of weeks ago Emma Stewarts stable in Vic was doing the same but have come back to the field with a bang last week with several runners runs queried.Who knows why.We can all surmise i guess but doesnt do the sport as a betting proposition any good at all.

What would you have the power's that be do Barney bring in a rule where you can only win 1 race a night or you'll be barred. Good luck to him.

[Thevoiceofreason]

Let me spell it out plain and clear simple one.....the police are in the best position to investigate this scandal.....sanders/Beattie are cops trying to be prosecutors! This is one for the big boys not amateur hour

Harness racing shame
Well what a year for nsw harness racing!
Why has it taken over 5 months for nsw harness led by Sam Nati and Reid sanders to lay even 1 yes 1 charge against anyone implicated in the nsw corruption scandal. Shame, shame,shame!! You are weak and should resign immediately!!
The police have already run their cases for harness racing to use and there heads are spinning not knowing what to do.
How embarrassing all this going on under their noses and no action taken against anyone involved other than some minor players being warned off. Why pay these people if their Not going to protect our sport???

You must have forgotten you posted this one so I will repost so you like the rest of us have to read your dribble which changes like the wind.

No drama if you do not HRNSW to investigate, but do not then bag them for doing nothing it does not make any sense, but then again why change your habits of a lifetime.

[Greg Hando]

I think you might find Doug that some charge's haven't been laid yet so as not to hinder the police investigation perhap's.
Patience is a virtue.

[A BIT DUSTY]

Some more figures worth considering:

Vic
Dean Braun - 38%
Kerryn Manning - 34%
Adam Kelly - 33%

SA
Les harding 37%
Jon Kingston - Mayne - 32%

Compare this with Luke - 35.3% and you will see that the best trainers in each state and country are all tracking at around the same numbers.

PS - I cant seem to find info for WA and QLD

Harvey figures are funny things you can use them to tell the side of the story you want to believe,
Comparing Luke's starters to winners stats to the other trainers looks like nothing out of the ordinary all about 30 odd% , but what you convenietly leave out is Luke unlike the other trainers has multiple runners in just about every race 2 and often 3 per race,( you can only win with one of them)and more often than not they run one,two or sometimes one, two ,three
Now if you look at the races he has starters in to winners I think you'll come up with almost an unbelievable 50% strike rate.

For me it's not the amount of winners ( sure trainers with big numbers of good horses are going to win lots of races) it's how their winning that's worrying me.

Just a little fact for you to ponder,
Karloo Mick in 4 of his last 5 starts gets lapped by Mack trained horses.,in some cases by the 3rd or 4th stringer (as in the Newcastle Cup) but right in the middle of those races in the Miracle Mile he gives their top stringers a cold in the home straight.
I wonder if you might guess the difference between the Miracle Mile and the other 4 races???.

If you don't know ask around, because every one else does

[peteboss4]

Also Denny its the improvement........he is making past good trainers look bad , they must be scatching their heads wondering what they were doing wrong , i posted before that Grand Stride trialled in 1.56.4 , two weeks later in wins in 1.52.7 , the guy that trained him before that win wasn't that hopless. As are most of the other trainers of the now improved horses.

[p plater]

Also Denny its the improvement........he is making past good trainers look bad , they must be scatching their heads wondering what they were doing wrong , i posted before that Grand Stride trialled in 1.56.4 , two weeks later in wins in 1.52.7 , the guy that trained him before that win wasn't that hopless. As are most of the other trainers of the now improved horses.

It's the Hard Held, Untouched by 8m or more that worries me

[mightymo]

i think you're way off the money about the miracle mile. Mr F was outstanding for his 4th, whilst Franco Jamar galloped in the score up. On the other hand, KM sat 4 back the pegs and did nothing. Swap the runs and Mr F beats KM by 20M

[mightymo]

you fail to mention that the other trainer had Grand Stride as an early 2yo. he is now a 3yo. Most horses improve enormously from 2 to 3 yo

[peteboss4]

Its not just that horse Harvey & you must know that as you are an intelligent person , go back look at the form of others , from very good to great trainers & look at the HUGE improvement.

[Dmoore]

Harness racing shame
Well what a year for nsw harness racing!
Why has it taken over 5 months for nsw harness led by Sam Nati and Reid sanders to lay even 1 yes 1 charge against anyone implicated in the nsw corruption scandal. Shame, shame,shame!! You are weak and should resign immediately!!
The police have already run their cases for harness racing to use and there heads are spinning not knowing what to do.
How embarrassing all this going on under their noses and no action taken against anyone involved other than some minor players being warned off. Why pay these people if their Not going to protect our sport???

You must have forgotten you posted this one so I will repost so you like the rest of us have to read your dribble which changes like the wind.

No drama if you do not HRNSW to investigate, but do not then bag them for doing nothing it does not make any sense, but then again why change your habits of a lifetime.

You are missing my point champ....this was going on for years and hrnsw turned a blind eye and did nothing to ensure the integrity of our industry! They dropped the ball and now want to pick it back up after the police have done all the hard yards. BUTT OUT sanders and let a proper law enforcement body take control. This investigation is too valuable for you and your stooge the drunk/wife beater to touch. you guys had your chance and blew it...

[ringman]

Doug, they need to clean out HRNSW full stop because its happend unfer their watch and the buck stops with them.most trot punters were asking for blood 12 months ago and they did nothing.

[A BIT DUSTY]

i think you're way off the money about the miracle mile. Mr F was outstanding for his 4th, whilst Franco Jamar galloped in the score up. On the other hand, KM sat 4 back the pegs and did nothing. Swap the runs and Mr F beats KM by 20M

I didn't miss the point Harvey , I think you might have .
The point I was making was that in 2 races either side of the MM Karloo was dominated by L M horses, the one race security is used he is competitive against them.
Coincidence ,? luck in running ? good drive ? you can make all the excuses you like but they are the facts.

Mr F outstanding in MM , I beg to diffor , he does no work out the gate or the first Q then slips around to chair in the back straight were he gets cover from stable mate and is under pressure straight away and if you think he wasn't at that stage how come IMQ puts him 3 deep so easily? and then just whacks away all the way down the home straight without looking the winner .
The week before in the cordina he went like a lear jet 1.51.4 hard held, the start after he sits outside S U and and gets beat a breath in track record time..
IMO the runs either side of the MM were far superior performances COINCIDENCE ???

If you would like to have another look at his MM run it is here http://www.trotstv.com.au/?mc=ME261111&rn=8 watch it again and tell me if you still think he went outstanding

[Lucky Camilla"s Lovechild]

I didn't miss the point Harvey , I think you might have .
The point I was making was that in 2 races either side of the MM Karloo was dominated by L M horses, the one race security is used he is competitive against them.
Coincidence ,? luck in running ? good drive ? you can make all the excuses you like but they are the facts.

Mr F outstanding in MM , I beg to diffor , he does no work out the gate or the first Q then slips around to chair in the back straight were he gets cover from stable mate and is under pressure straight away and if you think he wasn't at that stage how come IMQ puts him 3 deep so easily? and then just whacks away all the way down the home straight without looking the winner .
The week before in the cordina he went like a lear jet 1.51.4 hard held, the start after he sits outside S U and and gets beat a breath in track record time..
IMO the runs either side of the MM were far superior performances COINCIDENCE ???

If you would like to have another look at his MM run it is here http://www.trotstv.com.au/?mc=ME261111&rn=8 watch it again and tell me if you still think he went outstanding

Security was used for the Victoria Cup too, and MFG went pretty well, as did FJ.

[racefair]

Security was used for the Victoria Cup too, and MFG went pretty well, as did FJ.

Is the level of security the same each time? i.e. is there 1 security gaurd per horse every time? How far out from the race are security guards watching over the horses?

[tiny]

The security guards used are dumb. They wouldn't know which horse they're guarding. Like a lot of things it looks good and gives everyone a warm fluffy feeling. In reality achieves very little.

[peteboss4]

Good on ya Tiny . You said it as it is . The security guards are , IMO , would be if they could be rejects from the police force , most unable to put a sentence together . They , IMO , are the most easilly corrupted bunch of misfits and cons .

[racefair]

Lou Pena was banned from Yonkers in the United States for his domination of Harness Racing without a positive swab. "Through July 29 he was the leading trainer with 238 wins. Mark Ford was a distant second with 79 victories."
Open this link or otherwise type "Lou Pena banned" into Google.
http://www.harnessracingupdate.com/restricted/pdf/hru/hru08011.pdf
Someone mentioned a trainer with a strike rate of near 50% when you take into account multiple runners. I wonder how far off that is from Lou Pena?

[A BIT DUSTY]

Security was used for the Victoria Cup too, and MFG went pretty well, as did FJ.

Leigh are you sure????

This says otherwise Harness Racing Magazine - Home www.mobilerolling.com/18 Dec 2011 – "It's great to finally win the Victoria Cup, it's a race he thoroughly deserved to have on his .... 27 November 2011 - Smoken Up, Australian harness racing's best-ever .... racing stewards did not put one-to-one security on each horse on Cup Day I ...


You might know better than Lance ???????

[A BIT DUSTY]

The security guards used are dumb. They wouldn't know which horse they're guarding. Like a lot of things it looks good and gives everyone a warm fluffy feeling. In reality achieves very little.

Tell that garbage to the trainers of Christian Cullen, Robin Hood and Safari, (just to name a few) And see what sort of response you get from them.

[Lucky Camilla"s Lovechild]

Leigh are you sure????

This says otherwise Harness Racing Magazine - Home www.mobilerolling.com/18 Dec 2011 – "It's great to finally win the Victoria Cup, it's a race he thoroughly deserved to have on his .... 27 November 2011 - Smoken Up, Australian harness racing's best-ever .... racing stewards did not put one-to-one security on each horse on Cup Day I ...


You might know better than Lance ???????
Apparently it was from 9am on race day. Unlike from a couple of years back when they kept all runners in lockdown at Geelong. In theory it was a good idea, but didn't suit most horses (routine, heat etc) including my mates horse.

[triplev123]

D-Barns should be made mandatory for big $ races. I sincerely hope they eventually have one in place at Menangle.

[Lucky Camilla"s Lovechild]

D-Barns should be made mandatory for big $ races. I sincerely hope they eventually have one in place at Menangle.

D-Barns?

[triplev123]

Please don't make me have to go back and find the Cello Player in the Marching Band clip again Leigh. :rolleyes:

[Stonie]

D-Barns to put D-Horses in.............

[Lucky Camilla"s Lovechild]

Please don't make me have to go back and find the Cello Player in the Marching Band clip again Leigh. :rolleyes:
Humor me. I'm not familiar with American jargon.

[A BIT DUSTY]

apparently it was from 9am on race day. Unlike from a couple of years back when they kept all runners in lockdown at geelong. In theory it was a good idea, but didn't suit most horses (routine, heat etc) including my mates horse.
APPARENTLY
was it or wasn't it ????????????????????

[Lucky Camilla"s Lovechild]

APPARENTLY
was it or wasn't it ????????????????????
Yes!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[A BIT DUSTY]

Yes!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Thank you

[Lucky Camilla"s Lovechild]

Thank you

Your welcome

[A BIT DUSTY]

Your welcome

I wonder if Luke is an early riser lol?????????????

[Old Frank]

D-Barns = Detention Barns.

I can't speak for the all USA tracks, but The Meadowlands has one and stewards can enforce a horse nominated for any races by my understanding for up to 48-72hrs prior to it's respective race, irrespective of the status of the race.

Your horse trains down for that race under detention barn lockdown.

They can do it to any horse, more so, any trainer they have suspicions on as far as I'm aware.

[peteboss4]

Thanks for that info Nathan. Very intresting.........

[aussiebreno]

Karloo Mick in 4 of his last 5 starts gets lapped by Mack trained horses.,in some cases by the 3rd or 4th stringer (as in the Newcastle Cup) but right in the middle of those races in the Miracle Mile he gives their top stringers a cold in the home straight.
I wonder if you might guess the difference between the Miracle Mile and the other 4 races???.

If you don't know ask around, because every one else does
Let me guess. Franco Jamar running into the mobile and Karloo Mick getting 3 pegs. Remember Villagem ran 3rd from 3 pegs last year and hasn't won a race since.

[Just Saying]

Let me guess. Franco Jamar running into the mobile and Karloo Mick getting 3 pegs. Remember Villagem ran 3rd from 3 pegs last year and hasn't won a race since.

Bingo!

[Lucky Camilla"s Lovechild]

D-Barns = Detention Barns.

I can't speak for the all USA tracks, but The Meadowlands has one and stewards can enforce a horse nominated for any races by my understanding for up to 48-72hrs prior to it's respective race, irrespective of the status of the race.

Your horse trains down for that race under detention barn lockdown.

They can do it to any horse, more so, any trainer they have suspicions on as far as I'm aware.
Thanks for the info. Thought it may have been Drug- Barn. Ha ha ha .

[A BIT DUSTY]

Let me guess. Franco Jamar running into the mobile and Karloo Mick getting 3 pegs. Remember Villagem ran 3rd from 3 pegs last year and hasn't won a race since.

There are none so blind, than those that will not see

[mightymo]

There are none so blind, than those that will not see

hey denny

Its important that you have all the facts before you create unfounded rumour and innuendo.

Did you know that the security employed on Lukes horses on Miracle Mile night was exactly the same as the security the week before the MM??

Care to guess how Luke's stable went that night???

Ill help you out - 4 winners...

[Trotter]

Pleasseeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee

[A BIT DUSTY]

hey denny

Its important that you have all the facts before you create unfounded rumour and innuendo.

Did you know that the security employed on Lukes horses on Miracle Mile night was exactly the same as the security the week before the MM??

Care to guess how Luke's stable went that night???

Ill help you out - 4 winners...

Hi Harvey

I don't know were you get your information from.,but maybe you should get a new source .

The race Day security turned up at 7.00 am on M.M morning.
The ONLY other race to have this security was the Truere at Bankstown, which Washakie won so well. not the Cordina night as you thought

My info is straight from the person responsible for making these decisions so I think he might know

I personally have had enough of all this he said, she said stuff.
A similar thread on this has already run it's race and been closed .
It is starting to look as though I have a personal vendetta or something which I do not.
I have just been airing my own thoughts, and sometimes correcting some misinformation
I believe that Luke is a very good trainer, but on his own admission "quote I don't do much with them on the track" to me rules out these sudden improved performances by physical training
He may be a great reader of a horse and see's things that even the best haven't seen .
He may just be the best farrier to have ever put a shoe on a horse.
He is certainly one very special driver.
I've been told he has great staff.
There are probably a 100 reasons why his horses would go good.
But the thing that I have been saying is in my experience I have never seen these sort of performances at the scale that he is achieving.
I have said in previous threads if he is achieving it on training alone than IMO he is the best trainer we have ever seen ( and he just may be only time will tell)

I have been getting stacks of private messages from near and far from people who have the same questions ,but choose to stay out of the public domain.

So unless someone comes up with an outrages post on this subject , I will not be posting on this topic again.

[Old Frank]

Hi Harvey

I don't know were you get your information from.,but maybe you should get a new source .

The race Day security turned up at 7.00 am on M.M morning.
The ONLY other race to have this security was the Truere at Bankstown, which Washakie won so well. not the Cordina night as you thought

My info is straight from the person responsible for making these decisions so I think he might know

I personally have had enough of all this he said, she said stuff.
A similar thread on this has already run it's race and been closed .
It is starting to look as though I have a personal vendetta or something which I do not.
I have just been airing my own thoughts, and sometimes correcting some misinformation
I believe that Luke is a very good trainer, but on his own admission "quote I don't do much with them on the track" to me rules out these sudden improved performances by physical training
He may be a great reader of a horse and see's things that even the best haven't seen .
He may just be the best farrier to have ever put a shoe on a horse.
He is certainly one very special driver.
I've been told he has great staff.
There are probably a 100 reasons why his horses would go good.
But the thing that I have been saying is in my experience I have never seen these sort of performances at the scale that he is achieving.
I have said in previous threads if he is achieving it on training alone than IMO he is the best trainer we have ever seen ( and he just may be only time will tell)

I have been getting stacks of private messages from near and far from people who have the same questions ,but choose to stay out of the public domain.

So unless someone comes up with an outrages post on this subject , I will not be posting on this topic again.


For mine, I think Luke is the best trainer/driver in the last 20yrs throughout Australia.

He is literally hitting his straps now as a Trainer because when in Brisbane, most were in Dad John's name while Luke was developing as a Trainer / Driver in his own right.

Remember everyone, he did have horses like Slipnslide, Fluer De Lil, For A Reason when still in Brisbane, yet travelled them and won feature races in multiple states.

His success may seem 'overnight' but in my opinion is very far from that.

It's plain and simple to see that owners with any amount of common sense are ringing his number off the hook wanting him to take their horses so at the moment, he's probably knocking back initially or taking on and trialling, then culling the ones he doesn't want and is maintaining a high-performance team. Nothing wrong with this methodology as it get's results and is nothing different to what the likes of Waller and Waterhouse do at the gallops.

He is the best driver at Menangle by so far it's not funny. The majority of drivers at Menangle are quite literally pathetic and it has to be the worst crop of 'Metro' status drivers I've seen in 20-30yrs.

I'm of the understanding he has a good, strong staff underneath him and he runs his place sharp, getting the job done with which a happy team is a good team with any business. His workers I assume would all be getting rewarded, plus they are seeing their efforts supporting him achieve success on the track. A young man like Rue is getting mammoth enjoyment I would think just driving the calibre of horse in that barn, let alone the number of winners and the flow on extra $ that comes from his winning percentages.

The quote made above "I don't do much with them on the track" I think has been mis-represented a little and I've heard the same but it was in context that he doesn't burn them up at home and over work them which fundamentally is old school methods.

From my understanding, swimming and galloping are big part of his methodology and his focus appears to be on recuperation during the week, knowing full well that they will go to the races and have to spin off good times to win races consistently. Once your racing consistently with 51's and 52's next to your name, you don't have to keep burning them up at home during the week, they are already fit and it's about maintenance, much the same as NRL and AFL clubs do during the season, all their base fitness is done off-season or in a horses case, his 6-8 weeks pre-prep work before trialling/going to the races.

Luke took over a well established set-up at Cobbitty with his move down here and from what I hear has transformed it ten-fold again so good luck to him. He's investing in his and his families future so full bloody credit goes to him I say. Remember this is his business so it's no different to a businessman expanding and growing, employing good staff and becoming efficient with his methods and stock.

I think HRNSW should do more promotion on the back of McCarthy as he's easily the most marketable young man since Brian Hancock in the 80's and 90's and out of what's been a disgraceful 2011, 2012 and the future of harness racing in this state should run alongside this man's success. This young man should be featuring in the mainstream racing media weekly as his success is akin to a Chris Waller at the gallops, albeit the Harness Ind. does not have the 'sexy' projection of the gallops.

I wish their were more young men coming through the likes of him. As a horseman, he plays everyone in this state off a break he's that far better and I congratulate him and wish him every success in the future. He is a very well presented young man in the media when interviewed and his team is presneted first rate, why wouldn't owners be clamoring to have a horse in his barn? 90+% of Harness Trainers and Drivers present themselves like shit at the races so who can take them seriously and so-called 'professional'.

The bigots who lambast him simply aren't good enough to train or drive like him and it's just jealousy at it's finest.

Well done Luke, keep up the success.

P.S: Footnote, for the record, I am completely independent in my opinions and I do not have any involvement with the McCarthy stable, no horse ownership with anyone in the industry and can only lay claim to having a passing polite hello with Luke and his father John at the races previously.

[A BIT DUSTY]

I did say I wasn't going to post anymore on this thread and was quite enjoying Old Franks Post until this little bit comes along.

The bigots who lambast him simply aren't good enough to train or drive like him and it's just jealousy at it's finest.

And you know what I seem to have read the same rhetoric from supporters of Ben Johnston, Marion Jones, Chris Gleeson , the Chinese Women's Swimming team, etc etc.etc
And those who dared to question their sudden improved performances where also portrayed by the ignorant in a similar fashion as this pathetic statement .

And you know what in all of that inspiring testimony ,I still didn't see an explanation for the dramatic improved performances.

[Old Frank]

I did say I wasn't going to post anymore on this thread and was quite enjoying Old Franks Post until this little bit comes along.

The bigots who lambast him simply aren't good enough to train or drive like him and it's just jealousy at it's finest.

And you know what I seem to have read the same rhetoric from supporters of Ben Johnston, Marion Jones, Chris Gleeson , the Chinese Women's Swimming team, etc etc.etc

And those who dared to question their sudden improved performances where also portrayed by the ignorant in a similar fashion as this pathetic statement .

And you know what in all of that inspiring testimony ,I still didn't see an explanation for the dramatic improved performances.


With the point highlighted above, one could say the same goes for you ABD. I certainly haven't read everyone of your posts (nor intend too), but haven't sighted any evidence from you to support your poorly veiled insinuations that Luke's success is down to anything but drug use.

[A BIT DUSTY]

With the point highlighted above, one could say the same goes for you ABD. I certainly haven't read everyone of your posts (nor intend too), but haven't sighted any evidence from you to support your poorly veiled insinuations that Luke's success is down to anything but drug use.

Frank to borrow another forum users quote If it looks like a rat, smells like a rat, it usually is a Rat . All Iv'e ever asked is for someone to convince me it isn't a Rat.
Sounds like a reasonable request. But all I've received so far is how good a bloke he is , how good a driver he is, bla bla bloody bla .Which I have agreed with a hundred times .
But nobody has offered a plausible explanation for improved performances on a scale that I personally have never seen before.

P.S I don't believe I have ever stated that I think he is using Drugs.

[Old Frank]

Frank to borrow another forum users quote If it looks like a rat, smells like a rat, it usually is a Rat . All Iv'e ever asked is for someone to convince me it isn't a Rat.
Sounds like a reasonable request. But all I've received so far is how good a bloke he is , how good a driver he is, bla bla bloody bla .Which I have agreed with a hundred times .
But nobody has offered a plausible explanation for improved performances on a scale that I personally have never seen before.

P.S I don't believe I have ever stated that I think he is using Drugs.


ABD, please don't go all back pedal on us now. Your post #62 openly infers drug use / drug cheats when the topic you and I were bantering back and forth was L.McCarthy. At least have the gumption to stand by your inference.

You state nobody has a plausible explanation for McCarthy's success, yet you base your statements and inferences of him and his stables performance on the 'smells a rat' theory! Weak to say the least.

Currently - L.McCarthy - no positive swabs / no involvement in steward rorting and no charges for driving offences in recent memory, yet winning races consistently so now we all are to dismiss his success following hard work / good training / good driving / well graded horses on the improve which are subsequently well placed to acheive success and yet you would like us all to dismiss this on your 'smells a rat' theory? Please give us a break.

You were all self-righteous earlier stating that you weren't going to comment further yet you wailed straight back in the very next post. I think your credibility lacks when your soap-boxing about wanting justification from anyone regarding Luke's success, yet all you can do is cast disgraceful and baseless innuendo/aspersion following your 'smell a rat' theory!

[A BIT DUSTY]

ABD, please don't go all back pedal on us now. Your post #62 openly infers drug use / drug cheats when the topic you and I were bantering back and forth was L.McCarthy. At least have the gumption to stand by your inference.

You state nobody has a plausible explanation for McCarthy's success, yet you base your statements and inferences of him and his stables performance on the 'smells a rat' theory! Weak to say the least.


Currently - L.McCarthy - no positive swabs / no involvement in steward rorting and no charges for driving offences in recent memory, yet winning races consistently so now we all are to dismiss his success following hard work / good training / good driving / well graded horses on the improve which are subsequently well placed to acheive success and yet you would like us all to dismiss this on your 'smells a rat' theory? Please give us a break.

You were all self-righteous before stating that you weren't going to comment further yet you wailed straight back in the very next post. I think your credability lacks when your soap-boxing about wanting justification from anyone regarding Luke's success, yet all you can do is cast disgraceful and baseless innuendo following your 'smell a rat' theory!

Yep your right I must be all of those things Guilty as charged.
Shame on me for having those bad thoughts about an ANGEL . what was I thinking .
I'll have to stop forming opinions on what I have seen in my 53yrs and just run with the week and be silent.

[Old Frank]

Yep your right I must be all of those things Guilty as charged.
Shame on me for having those bad thoughts about an ANGEL . what was I thinking .
I'll have to stop forming opinions on what I have seen in my 53yrs and just run with the week and be silent.




Well ABD, opinions are what everyone's entitled too, but your version of opinion is casting aspersions / innuendo based on nothing but 'smells a rat' theory and is poor form in most people's assessement.

Shoe on the other foot, I suppose you'd love people in your circle of life casting versions of 'opinion' on you based on the thought you 'smelt like a rat' hey? I wouldn't have thought you would?

If McCarthy or anyone for that matter get's a positive, well they have to be answerable to that and yes, you'd be right there with the "I told you so", but as facts stands, you've got nothing. (Sorry ABD, 'smells a rat' probably just doesn't stand up to a positive charge!)

I hope as stated before Luke and his team have nothing but continued success. I think he's great for harness racing and good luck to him.

P.S: And please don't go sulking along with your 53yr comment trying to take some high ground 'know better/know all' perspective. Fact stands, your argument was flawed and baseless, nothing more, nothing less.

[mightymo]

You compare Luke to :

Ben Johnson - proven cheat
Marion Jones - proven cheat
Chinese swimmers - proven cheats

but you say you are not calling him a cheat... give me a break

In most jurisdictions and courts of law around the world, you are innocent until proven guilty, but in Dennys court you have to prove your innocence!!!

I suppose in your world, Usain Bolt, Michael Phelps, Ian Thorpe etc are all cheats... :(:(

[A BIT DUSTY]

Well ABD, opinions are what everyone's entitled too, but your version of opinion is casting aspersions / innuendo based on nothing but 'smells a rat' theory and is poor form in most people's assessement.

I suppose you'd love people casting your version of 'opinion' on you based on they thought you 'smelt like a rat' hey? I wouldn't have thought you would?

If McCarthy or anyone for that matter get's a positive, well they have to be answerable to that and yes, you'd be right there with the "I told you so", but as facts stands, you've got nothing. (Sorry ABD, 'smells a rat' probably just doesn't stand up to a positive charge!)

I hope as stated before Luke and his team have nothing but continued success. I think he's great for harness racing and good luck to him.


Nathan you stated you haven't read all of my post if you had you would have seen that I too have a high regard for Luke and would be only to happy to say My fears were unfounded.

Check out the thread ANYONE WANT TO GUESS #22 and you'll see that I have stated that on this forum.

Also if I was to show you some of my replies to the stack of private messages I have had on this issue ,you might appreciate that It is my greatest wish that all is above board ; but mate I get tired of the same old line that if you have suspicions you must be a jealous bigot as you elegantly put it.

HERE'S TO LUKE McCARTHY BEING PROVEN AS THE GREATEST HARNESS TRAINER IN HISTORY

AMEN

[A BIT DUSTY]

You compare Luke to :

Ben Johnson - proven cheat
Marion Jones - proven cheat
Chinese swimmers - proven cheats

but you say you are not calling him a cheat... give me a break

In most jurisdictions and courts of law around the world, you are innocent until proven guilty, but in Dennys court you have to prove your innocence!!!

I suppose in your world, Usain Bolt, Michael Phelps, Ian Thorpe etc are all cheats... :(:(


Nice to hear from you again Harvey I thought you had disappeared after your gaff about the Cordina security .
You appear to have missed the purpose of that inference .
I at no stage compared Luke to anyone, I told Old Frank that people where saying the same things about those people and they where later proven to be wrong.

[Maorisidol]

I did say I wasn't going to post anymore on this thread and was quite enjoying Old Franks Post until this little bit comes along.

The bigots who lambast him simply aren't good enough to train or drive like him and it's just jealousy at it's finest.

And you know what I seem to have read the same rhetoric from supporters of Ben Johnston, Marion Jones, Chris Gleeson , the Chinese Women's Swimming team, etc etc.etc
And those who dared to question their sudden improved performances where also portrayed by the ignorant in a similar fashion as this pathetic statement .

And you know what in all of that inspiring testimony ,I still didn't see an explanation for the dramatic improved performances.

Denny,
firstly i am a Victorian and dont claim to b an expert on NSW Trots...
However i see these points in Lukes favor that i see contributing to his success vs other trainers/drivers...
1. he spent a fair bit of time in the US driving for good trainers, u couldnt help but learn training methods for the US style of racing...
2. his brother Andy has been there for many years, do u reckon they dont talk and give each other ideas and knowledge?
2. oh look, Menangle is a 1400m track which predominantly has mile racing like the US, maybe Luke has a chance to use his skills in mile driving and training????
3. how often does he take horses to bathurst, wagga, penrith and the other SMALL OLD FASHIONED tracks that dont suit his horses who have been trained to the BIG TRACK mile racing? More to this point, he doesnt take them there because even if u have the best horse in the race, its easier to get beat because u r running around a saucepan and there are more chances of not getting out or pushed 6 wide around a 100m turn etc. (yes i have seen horses not get a run in the straight at Menangle!)
so, because he doesnt go to the "little" tracks and subsequesntly lose more races, he keeps a high winning strike rate at Menangle. Basic maths...pretty smart i reckon.
Just my 2 cents worth...

[A BIT DUSTY]

Denny,
firstly i am a Victorian and dont claim to b an expert on NSW Trots...
However i see these points in Lukes favor that i see contributing to his success vs other trainers/drivers...
1. he spent a fair bit of time in the US driving for good trainers, u couldnt help but learn training methods for the US style of racing...
2. his brother Andy has been there for many years, do u reckon they dont talk and give each other ideas and knowledge?
2. oh look, Menangle is a 1400m track which predominantly has mile racing like the US, maybe Luke has a chance to use his skills in mile driving and training????
3. how often does he take horses to bathurst, wagga, penrith and the other SMALL OLD FASHIONED tracks that dont suit his horses who have been trained to the BIG TRACK mile racing? More to this point, he doesnt take them there because even if u have the best horse in the race, its easier to get beat because u r running around a saucepan and there are more chances of not getting out or pushed 6 wide around a 100m turn etc. (yes i have seen horses not get a run in the straight at Menangle!)
so, because he doesnt go to the "little" tracks and subsequesntly lose more races, he keeps a high winning strike rate at Menangle. Basic maths...pretty smart i reckon.
Just my 2 cents worth...

ASH totally agree with every thing you said. ( although I think you'll find he has a near perfect record at Bathurst in the last couple of months)

cheers Denny

[A BIT DUSTY]

Well ABD, opinions are what everyone's entitled too, but your version of opinion is casting aspersions / innuendo based on nothing but 'smells a rat' theory and is poor form in most people's assessement.

Shoe on the other foot, I suppose you'd love people in your circle of life casting versions of 'opinion' on you based on the thought you 'smelt like a rat' hey? I wouldn't have thought you would?

If McCarthy or anyone for that matter get's a positive, well they have to be answerable to that and yes, you'd be right there with the "I told you so", but as facts stands, you've got nothing. (Sorry ABD, 'smells a rat' probably just doesn't stand up to a positive charge!)

I hope as stated before Luke and his team have nothing but continued success. I think he's great for harness racing and good luck to him.

P.S: And please don't go sulking along with your 53yr comment trying to take some high ground 'know better/know all' perspective. Fact stands, your argument was flawed and baseless, nothing more, nothing less.

Wouldn't matter if was 53yrs or 20yrs you can't argue against History, and History shows that over the years there has been plenty of loyal subjects just like you, who have blindly followed, only to be disappointed down the track .

I genuinely hope you are not one of them.

[Old Frank]

[/B]

Wouldn't matter if was 53yrs or 20yrs you can't argue against History, and History shows that over the years there has been plenty of loyal subjects just like you, who have blindly followed, only to be disappointed down the track .

I genuinely hope you are not one of them.


We'll agree to disagree ABD. There are plenty of great trainers over the years who have had great careers with no positives and to my mind, relying on simple effective methods. (Baldy Hancock comes to mind as not receiving a positive through his great career, I could be wrong, but certainly not off memory?)

Thanks for patronising me by being a 'loyal subject', but I do know the game having been involved previously and know there are plenty of trainers 'doing something', however I genuinally believe McCarthy's got his training methods right, getting plenty of stock coming into his barn at either the right grade, or with the right ability and not yet fully exposed so he improves it automatically under better training and driving, I think he's an exceptional driver and has a strong, committed staff, plus utilising superb facilities all working towards those horses being in the best shape going to the races.

Everyone will cast their 'opinion' on his success, but as I said in earlier posts, I think his 'success' isn't overnight as he was acheiving fantastic results in Brisbane, it's now because he is down here, a young man in his own right that we are seeing it first hand week-in, week-out so to speak.

Time will tell with where his career pans out, but he's the best thing to happen to harness racing in this state in 20yrs, no doubt.

[Old Frank]

Moari's,

Along with what ABD was saying, McCarthy has dominated on the recent nights he's gone to Bathurst, along with Wagga there one night where he had 3-4 winners off memory also. He's winning multiples at Newcastle as well when there and Penrith as well although seems to focus his energies on Menangle.

McCarthy brought the old set-up at Cobbitty that P.Walsh, followed by D.Wilson trained out of and both men had plenty of top-flight success training there. It's a superb half-mile track, balanced and cambered well and in my opinion, horses training down well on half-mile tracks only grow a leg then when going to the bigger tracks as it's even more comfortable racing on the bigger circuits. From what I hear Luke's also put another track down as well (maybe a heavier base for the galloping methods he utilises?) so by the sounds of it, along with his swimming facility there, he really has a top-notch, diverse set-up developing there.

Gone are the days of working them at your local track with two heats of two miles and then on off days, jogging for 40minutes.

[peteboss4]

'so, because he doesnt go to the "little" tracks and subsequesntly lose more races, he keeps a high winning strike rate at Menangle. Basic maths...pretty smart i reckon'


Ash, he goes go to the 'little' tracks. As Old Frank stated Bathurst,Wagga,Penrith,Newcastle, he also has 5 in at Maitland on Sat.

[A BIT DUSTY]

We'll agree to disagree ABD. There are plenty of great trainers over the years who have had great careers with no positives and to my mind, relying on simple effective methods. (Baldy Hancock comes to mind as not receiving a positive through his great career, I could be wrong, but certainly not off memory?)

Thanks for calling me a loyal subject, but I do know the game having been involved previously and know there are plenty of trainers 'doing something', however I genuinally believe McCarthy's got his training methods right, getting plenty of stock coming into his barn at either the right grade, or with the right ability and not yet fully exposed so he improves it automatically under better training and driving, I think he's an exceptional driver and has a strong, committed staff, plus utilising exceptional facilities all working towards those horses being in the best shape going to the races.

Everyone will cast their 'opinion' on his success, but as I said in earlier posts, I think his 'success' isn't overnight as he was acheiving fantastic results in Brisbane, it's now because he is down here, a young man in his own right that we are seeing it first hand week-in, week-out so to speak.

Time will tell with where his career pans out, but he's the best thing to happen to harness racing in this state in 20yrs, no doubt.

Nathan as I have said countless times I am actually a fan of Lukes
This all started when I made a comment that I had never seen such dramatic improvements on this scale, the likes of Mandy Rambo no wins last 10 strs at places like Young, Wagga, Canberra etc and then wins eight out of 13 all at menangle in sensational fashion, Artifactor no wins last 17strs for B Hancock then wins 1st start for Luke .Roman Stride had not won in it's last 7 strs for N Day but wins 6 out of 8 including a 2nd for Luke.

My mistake was saying "if he is achieving these results on training alone then he is the best trainer we have ever seen" and it has Snowballed to were it is now .

I certainly did not accuse Luke of using Drugs, ( and clearly stated that in an earlier post) I now see that some people may have seen it that way,, but as I started to get attacked for MY opinion I started to get my back up.

The more people gave me, the more I felt I had to respond as my response to the( jealous bigot comment,)was " I remember supporters of those disgraced sportsman saying the same"
As with anyone who is passionate about something I probably go over board sometimes when trying to make a point , ( something that I will try to curb).

So for the second time I'll Retire from this subject and hope that Luke goes on to greatness.

[Maorisidol]

'so, because he doesnt go to the "little" tracks and subsequesntly lose more races, he keeps a high winning strike rate at Menangle. Basic maths...pretty smart i reckon'


Ash, he goes go to the 'little' tracks. As Old Frank stated Bathurst,Wagga,Penrith,Newcastle, he also has 5 in at Maitland on Sat.

Peteboss and Old Frank... "firstly i am a Victorian and dont claim to b an expert on NSW Trots..."
I hear ya...
My point being he primarily concentrates on Menangle as his mainstay, after all that's why he moved from Qld...No Menangle no Luke...

[racefair]

Nathan as I have said countless times I am actually a fan of Lukes
This all started when I made a comment that I had never seen such dramatic improvements on this scale, the likes of Mandy Rambo no wins last 10 strs at places like Young, Wagga, Canberra etc and then wins eight out of 13 all at menangle in sensational fashion, Artifactor no wins last 17strs for B Hancock then wins 1st start for Luke .Roman Stride had not won in it's last 7 strs for N Day but wins 6 out of 8 including a 2nd for Luke.

My mistake was saying "if he is achieving these results on training alone then he is the best trainer we have ever seen" and it has Snowballed to were it is now .

I certainly did not accuse Luke of using Drugs, ( and clearly stated that in an earlier post) I now see that some people may have seen it that way,, but as I started to get attacked for MY opinion I started to get my back up.

The more people gave me, the more I felt I had to respond as my response to the( jealous bigot comment,)was " I remember supporters of those disgraced sportsman saying the same"
As with anyone who is passionate about something I probably go over board sometimes when trying to make a point , ( something that I will try to curb).

So for the second time I'll Retire from this subject and hope that Luke goes on to greatness.

Anyone is free to make an opinion however you can't make facts. Just look at the raw facts and you will see that his improvements are similar to that made using performance enhancing drugs. Read Thomas Tobins books on the percentage improvements that he gets using various drugs. A lot of trainers use drugs/treatments and some are legal. I don't know and I bet that none of you know whether LM's are legal or just not detectable.
Read some literature or review results of human/equine performances over time. It usually takes a long time to make big improvements. This is the point that Denny is trying to make. It's an old book, however see how long it took Tom Iver's to get improvements through interval training. This might put things into perspective for a few people.
The other thing is that LM makes big improvements on race fit horses which is hard to do. Usually when a horse changes stable, it will go off it's feed and be unsettled for a few weeks. So then, this is the hardest time to get the biggest improvements.
There is so much BS on this forum about LM having better day yards, tracks, yardsticks, swimming holes, blacksmiths, driving styles, selection of horses etc. Doesn't any other trainer have these things? They help but don't account for the scale of improvements that he makes in the time that he makes them.
LM is smart enough to drive his horses to their ability and doesn't drive the slower ones in the same way.
Doesn't the likes of Fitzpatrick, Day etc. know how to train horses anymore? They buy and train well bred horses and just aren't in the game at the moment against LM.
Some mention that LM gallops and swims them. Yeah, we'll I would too because it saves a whole lot of time versus gearing a horse up with hopples when you have so many horses in work. I'm not sure that it's just because it's a better way to work them.
Take a step back without emotion and look at the raw facts. Speak to anyone involved in sport performance and discuss the results that this guy is getting. If they are without drugs then they defy alot of science and knowledge around sports training/performance.
Whether he's using drugs or not then it doesn't bother me. I just think that it's funny when we see such results and so many people think that it's impossible that he's using PED's. It's just as possible that he's using them as it is that he's not.
There is a rule in Harness racing requiring a log book of all treatments. Maybe a steward should sit posted for 3 weeks/24/7 to see if LM's log book is consistent with what he actually gives them. Then we won't need to bother to try and detect anything and could make a judgement on the use or non use of undetectable drugs.

[triplev123]

Slightly off topic Jett...but Tom Ivers? As far as equine related mythological beasts go...his Interval Training & Carbo Loading mantras, they were up at the top of the list along with Jack Walmsley's Cycle Breeding theory.

[A BIT DUSTY]

[QUOTE=triplev123;15066]Slightly off topic Jett...but Tom Ivers? As far as equine related mythological beasts go...his Interval Training & Carbo Loading mantras, they were up at the top of the list along with Jack Walmsley's Cycle Breeding theory.

Is this more Triple DRIBBLE????????

http://www.dogbreedinfo.com/images15/DroolMonsterBlackTanCoonHoundGrace.JPG

[A BIT DUSTY]

WOW I can't handle all this fan mail coming in on private messages, can all you guy's slow down and give me a chance to respond to all your congratulations and well wishes.

After all it was only a picture of a dog dribbling

[aussiebreno]

Convenient that your only support comes from private messages isn't it.

[Stonie]

WOW I can't handle all this fan mail coming in on private messages, can all you guy's slow down and give me a chance to respond to all your congratulations and well wishes.

After all it was only a picture of a dog dribbling

They are a waste of time and space Denny. Oxygen thieves.......
Easier to compare them to school kids that run to the teacher to dob others in.
They must spend their days on the internet searching for info to put on here. Only knowledge they have is from related websites and You Tube.

[Danno]

Anyone is free to make an opinion however you can't make facts. Just look at the raw facts and you will see that his improvements are similar to that made using performance enhancing drugs. Read Thomas Tobins books on the percentage improvements that he gets using various drugs. A lot of trainers use drugs/treatments and some are legal. I don't know and I bet that none of you know whether LM's are legal or just not detectable.
Read some literature or review results of human/equine performances over time. It usually takes a long time to make big improvements. This is the point that Denny is trying to make. It's an old book, however see how long it took Tom Iver's to get improvements through interval training. This might put things into perspective for a few people.
The other thing is that LM makes big improvements on race fit horses which is hard to do. Usually when a horse changes stable, it will go off it's feed and be unsettled for a few weeks. So then, this is the hardest time to get the biggest improvements.
There is so much BS on this forum about LM having better day yards, tracks, yardsticks, swimming holes, blacksmiths, driving styles, selection of horses etc. Doesn't any other trainer have these things? They help but don't account for the scale of improvements that he makes in the time that he makes them.
LM is smart enough to drive his horses to their ability and doesn't drive the slower ones in the same way.
Doesn't the likes of Fitzpatrick, Day etc. know how to train horses anymore? They buy and train well bred horses and just aren't in the game at the moment against LM.
Some mention that LM gallops and swims them. Yeah, we'll I would too because it saves a whole lot of time versus gearing a horse up with hopples when you have so many horses in work. I'm not sure that it's just because it's a better way to work them.
Take a step back without emotion and look at the raw facts. Speak to anyone involved in sport performance and discuss the results that this guy is getting. If they are without drugs then they defy alot of science and knowledge around sports training/performance.
Whether he's using drugs or not then it doesn't bother me. I just think that it's funny when we see such results and so many people think that it's impossible that he's using PED's. It's just as possible that he's using them as it is that he's not.
There is a rule in Harness racing requiring a log book of all treatments. Maybe a steward should sit posted for 3 weeks/24/7 to see if LM's log book is consistent with what he actually gives them. Then we won't need to bother to try and detect anything and could make a judgement on the use or non use of undetectable drugs.

truly pragmatic post.

[triplev123]

WOW I can't handle all this fan mail coming in on private messages, can all you guy's slow down and give me a chance to respond to all your congratulations and well wishes.

After all it was only a picture of a dog dribbling


[VVV] G'day Denny.
http://www.sptimes.com/2006/09/04/images/large/PascoC_pasmour_869163.jpg

Just wanted to wish you good luck at the Greased Pig Catchin' Championships.

[peteboss4]

http://www.harnessracingforum.com/image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIABAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAEALAAAAAABAAEAQAICTAEAOw%3D%3D http://www.harnessracingforum.com/image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIABAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAEALAAAAAABAAEAQAICTAEAOw%3D%3D


http://images3.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20110225000624/looneytunes/images/6/63/RalphtheGuard.jpg (http://images.wikia.com/looneytunes/images/6/63/RalphtheGuard.jpg)
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is that you Jamie ???????

[triplev123]

Could be. The five o'clock shadow looks about right. Not given to wearing ties however.

[David Summers]

Looks like Admin have just given a certain poster here a little holiday. I'd take a guess that in all those private messages there might have been one from Admin. I would say that one would not exactly be full of praise.

[peteboss4]

Could be. The five o'clock shadow looks about right. Not given to wearing ties however.

No worries . Have a nice day .

[Old Frank]

Peteboss and Old Frank... "firstly i am a Victorian and dont claim to b an expert on NSW Trots..."
I hear ya...
My point being he primarily concentrates on Menangle as his mainstay, after all that's why he moved from Qld...No Menangle no Luke...

Hey Maori's,

Mate, wasn't having a dig, just expanding ABD's initial response to you. Yes I did see your Victorian 'status' but again, didn't mean any shot at you.

My comments were similiar to yours actually, yes Menangle seems to be Luke's focus as that's where the top money is, but he's dominating wherever he goes, placing his horses to advantage, small or big tracks.

Cheers.

[Old Frank]

Nathan as I have said countless times I am actually a fan of Lukes

This all started when I made a comment that I had never seen such dramatic improvements on this scale, the likes of Mandy Rambo no wins last 10 strs at places like Young, Wagga, Canberra etc and then wins eight out of 13 all at menangle in sensational fashion, Artifactor no wins last 17strs for B Hancock then wins 1st start for Luke .Roman Stride had not won in it's last 7 strs for N Day but wins 6 out of 8 including a 2nd for Luke.

My mistake was saying "if he is achieving these results on training alone then he is the best trainer we have ever seen" and it has Snowballed to were it is now .

I certainly did not accuse Luke of using Drugs, ( and clearly stated that in an earlier post) I now see that some people may have seen it that way,, but as I started to get attacked for MY opinion I started to get my back up.

The more people gave me, the more I felt I had to respond as my response to the( jealous bigot comment,)was " I remember supporters of those disgraced sportsman saying the same"
As with anyone who is passionate about something I probably go over board sometimes when trying to make a point , ( something that I will try to curb).

So for the second time I'll Retire from this subject and hope that Luke goes on to greatness.



Respect your comments about improving 'performed' horses, but to be frank (pardon the pun), I don't think it's too big an improvement overall.

Artificator, one (1) win under McCarthy when transferred from B.Hancock, yet was only in 2.00.1 for 2300m on a Tuesday, then some consistent performances, then one (1) more win under M.Rue in 1.57.5 before being shipped off to J.McCarthy in Brisbane where it's won 3-4 from about 15 starts in what's to be fair, more appropriate company. It's fair to say on face value, Luke probably doesn't think it will do a job like he wants in Sydney.

Roman Stride was always shown to be a good horse and won quite a few races for N.Day and McCarthy's probably got the horse at the right time but to be frank (there it goes again!) not 'improving' it per say to another level, but consistently holding it's form to it's ability. No different when N.Day took Camlach from D.Wilson some years back and won a stack of good races with him. D.Wilson, great trainer in his own right got a suspension, Day took over and won some very good races, including a Truer, so good trainers do get results from other good trainers horses, a lot of it can just be timing.

Mandy Rambo, yes see your point on face value, but seriously, you can't tell me honestly that (with no disrespect intended), that L.McCarthy isn't a better trainer/driver than M.Day who was punching her around the Goulburn/Canberra type races. Again, just keeping in perspective, it's chalk and cheese. Also, being a mare, they can hit a 'purple patch' as you would know. I do remember a good mare called 'Borowan' going to D.Wilson's barn from A.Taiba's some 10-12 yrs back and she was 7 or 8yrs old off memory at the time, yet she struck a good patch of form and Wilson won about 7-8 races from 10 starts with her before she got a bad leg injury and I remember Denis saying "she was as good a mare that I've put a bridle on and passed through my barn and she was tough". Mare's hold form solid, but can then go right off quick smart also, time will tell.

Mandy's little purple patch may well burst soon, I don't know? What I do know is, there is some logic to these horses winning consistently, but also, if Luke was improving at such astronomical rates all the horses he's getting, how come he's not winning every single race he enters?

[Old Frank]

Anyone is free to make an opinion however you can't make facts. Just look at the raw facts and you will see that his improvements are similar to that made using performance enhancing drugs.

Your saying "look at the raw facts", well fact is there's no positive swabs, no issues raised. That's the "raw fact" of this issue, everyone can comment till the cows come home, but as it stands, raw fact = no positive.

Read Thomas Tobins books on the percentage improvements that he gets using various drugs. A lot of trainers use drugs/treatments and some are legal. I don't know and I bet that none of you know whether LM's are legal or just not detectable.
Read some literature or review results of human/equine performances over time. It usually takes a long time to make big improvements. This is the point that Denny is trying to make. It's an old book, however see how long it took Tom Iver's to get improvements through interval training. This might put things into perspective for a few people.
The other thing is that LM makes big improvements on race fit horses which is hard to do.

Usually when a horse changes stable, it will go off it's feed and be unsettled for a few weeks.

Politely agree to disagree, have outlined some examples in another post answering to ABD's comments. Have seen good trainers take other good trainers horses and improve them. A long time ago now when I was around stables, saw plenty of horses come from other barns and thrive under different circumstances/working regimes.

So then, this is the hardest time to get the biggest improvements.

There is so much BS on this forum about LM having better day yards, tracks, yardsticks, swimming holes, blacksmiths, driving styles, selection of horses etc. Doesn't any other trainer have these things? They help but don't account for the scale of improvements that he makes in the time that he makes them.

LM is smart enough to drive his horses to their ability and doesn't drive the slower ones in the same way.

Doesn't the likes of Fitzpatrick, Day etc. know how to train horses anymore? They buy and train well bred horses and just aren't in the game at the moment against LM.
Some mention that LM gallops and swims them. Yeah, we'll I would too because it saves a whole lot of time versus gearing a horse up with hopples when you have so many horses in work. I'm not sure that it's just because it's a better way to work them.

Take a step back without emotion and look at the raw facts.

Refer my earlier comments above.

Speak to anyone involved in sport performance and discuss the results that this guy is getting. If they are without drugs then they defy alot of science and knowledge around sports training/performance.

Whether he's using drugs or not then it doesn't bother me. I just think that it's funny when we see such results and so many people think that it's impossible that he's using PED's. It's just as possible that he's using them as it is that he's not.

There is a rule in Harness racing requiring a log book of all treatments. Maybe a steward should sit posted for 3 weeks/24/7 to see if LM's log book is consistent with what he actually gives them. Then we won't need to bother to try and detect anything and could make a judgement on the use or non use of undetectable drugs.



Hey there Racefair, respect your opinions, my comments above following your highlighted points.

Cheers, Old Frank.

[racefair]

Hi Nathan, thanks for your reply and I respect your comments also. A few notes.
1. No positive swab doesn't 100% guarantee that no illegal drugs/treaments are being used. See also Lou Pena in the US who was suspended from racing without a positive swab. His results were off the charts and the harness racing community there had a gutful. There are some drugs that are not yet detectable. E.g. ITPP.
Sam Nati previously highlighted the testing of EPO and Snake Venom. I'm not as up to date as others, however I haven't seen anyone test positive for these drugs in NSW. This means either 1. Trainers have stopped using them or 2. HRNSW is not detecting them yet. Trainers today are getting caught with a variety of drugs and have shown that they will run the gauntlet. And so one might doubt whether they've stopped using these things.
2. Changing stables. Yes it can go both ways, however I only see a 1way improvement when LM gets them.
3. You ask why LM doesn't win every single race? Well he goes pretty close and someone has previously suggested that his strike rate is 50% when you take into account that he often has 2 and 3 runners in a race.Therefore, it's impossible for all of his horses to win every race as he has multiple runners.

[racefair]

Slightly off topic Jett...but Tom Ivers? As far as equine related mythological beasts go...his Interval Training & Carbo Loading mantras, they were up at the top of the list along with Jack Walmsley's Cycle Breeding theory.

Hi Jamie, Tom Ivers was a just book that sprang to mind while quickly making that post. Your'e a smart guy who knows/reads alot. What is the biggest improvement recorded in scientific literature by any research scientists (without drugs) that you've read? It would be also interesting to see how long it took to get those improvements.

[HARNESSTRAGIC]

Respect your comments about improving 'performed' horses, but to be frank (pardon the pun), I don't think it's too big an improvement overall.

Artificator, one (1) win under McCarthy when transferred from B.Hancock, yet was only in 2.00.1 for 2300m on a Tuesday, then some consistent performances, then one (1) more win under M.Rue in 1.57.5 before being shipped off to J.McCarthy in Brisbane where it's won 3-4 from about 15 starts in what's to be fair, more appropriate company. It's fair to say on face value, Luke probably doesn't think it will do a job like he wants in Sydney.

Roman Stride was always shown to be a good horse and won quite a few races for N.Day and McCarthy's probably got the horse at the right time but to be frank (there it goes again!) not 'improving' it per say to another level, but consistently holding it's form to it's ability. No different when N.Day took Camlach from D.Wilson some years back and won a stack of good races with him. D.Wilson, great trainer in his own right got a suspension, Day took over and won some very good races, including a Truer, so good trainers do get results from other good trainers horses, a lot of it can just be timing.

Mandy Rambo, yes see your point on face value, but seriously, you can't tell me honestly that (with no disrespect intended), that L.McCarthy isn't a better trainer/driver than M.Day who was punching her around the Goulburn/Canberra type races. Again, just keeping in perspective, it's chalk and cheese. Also, being a mare, they can hit a 'purple patch' as you would know. I do remember a good mare called 'Borowan' going to D.Wilson's barn from A.Taiba's some 10-12 yrs back and she was 7 or 8yrs old off memory at the time, yet she struck a good patch of form and Wilson won about 7-8 races from 10 starts with her before she got a bad leg injury and I remember Denis saying "she was as good a mare that I've put a bridle on and passed through my barn and she was tough". Mare's hold form solid, but can then go right off quick smart also, time will tell.

Mandy's little purple patch may well burst soon, I don't know? What I do know is, there is some logic to these horses winning consistently, but also, if Luke was improving at such astronomical rates all the horses he's getting, how come he's not winning every single race he enters?

Mandy Rambo that's a name I remember.
The Ballintine's from up this way bred her, I remember her poking around the trials around here trying to qualify , took about 10 strs or so to win a race .
Must admit I sure got a shock when she was stringing that winning streak together in town.Got even bigger surprise when I noticed it was only about 18days from her last start for previous trainer and her 1st win for Young Mack.

[aussiebreno]

Hi Jamie, Tom Ivers was a just book that sprang to mind while quickly making that post. Your'e a smart guy who knows/reads alot. What is the biggest improvement recorded in scientific literature by any research scientists (without drugs) that you've read? It would be also interesting to see how long it took to get those improvements.
Racefair,
I'd imagine numbers would be different for beginners, intermediate and advanced athletes/horses.
I envisage you know what these figures are? If so, what are they and what was the training experience behind the science dummies?
Cheers

[HARNESSTRAGIC]

Racefair,
I'd imagine numbers would be different for beginners, intermediate and advanced athletes/horses.
I envisage you know what these figures are? If so, what are they and what was the training experience behind the science dummies?
Cheers

Good Day aussiebreno
I think the point that racefair was alluding to was that over 70yrs of harness racing or any other sport for that matter , to improve one's ability with physical training has always taken quiet some time( months not day;s ), for you to post that sort of remark ,probably shows a little bit of ignorance on your behalf.
Ron

[aussiebreno]

Good Day aussiebreno
I think the point that racefair was alluding to was that over 70yrs of harness racing or any other sport for that matter , to improve one's ability with physical training has always taken quiet some time( months not day;s ), for you to post that sort of remark ,probably shows a little bit of ignorance on your behalf.
Ron
Yes but I'm actually keen to know what the figures are for reasons outside of this forum/thread.

[Danno]

Racefair,
I'd imagine numbers would be different for beginners, intermediate and advanced athletes/horses.
I envisage you know what these figures are? If so, what are they and what was the training experience behind the science dummies?
Cheers

righto aussie echo, can you give us the figures? or are you just fazing for your little mate??

[aussiebreno]

righto aussie echo, how about you give us the figures??

I have no idea. In human beginners I'd guess 7.5% a month, 5% a month for intermediate and 2.5% for advanced. Maybe <1% for elite. I will repeat though, I have no idea what the figures actually are I'm just guessing based on experience in training my own body.
In horses I'd also imagine these numbers are even lower for reasons such as they are already superior horses and they can't talk to you and tell you things.

[Danno]

[QUOTE=aussiebreno;15133]I have no idea.

spot on

[aussiebreno]

Whatever helps you sleep at night.

[HARNESSTRAGIC]

Hey You Boy's Really Get into it on here , Most fun I've had since The I Love Lucey Show.

[triplev123]

Hi Jamie, Tom Ivers was a just book that sprang to mind while quickly making that post. Your'e a smart guy who knows/reads alot. What is the biggest improvement recorded in scientific literature by any research scientists (without drugs) that you've read? It would be also interesting to see how long it took to get those improvements.

[VVV] Sorry Jett, you hit on a bit of a raw nerve there.
Many years ago Ivers was actually a member of the forerunner to the US Harnesslist, it was called Post Parade, and I was also member of that forum.
While being fortunate enough to have as it's members fellas such as Murray Brown, the late Kurt Greene, Ralph Succee etc. it also had a few real loonies in residence.
Valley Vic, a fella singularly obsessed with a beer by the name of Rolling Rock was one who springs to mind and for different reasons but not so far behind him was Tom Ivers.
Time & time again Tom would bang on about Interval Training & Carbo-loading...the latter being a theory that he had whereby he claimed that with the right type of diet & training a horseman could not just load but in fact 'overload' the cells of the body with carbohydrate energy & thus gain an edge over the competition.
This, he claimed, specifically when fed in conjunction with Interval Training, was just the bee's knees. :eek::eek::eek::eek:
As fortune would have it he just so happened to also sell the mystical super carbohyrdate compounds with which you could 'overload' your horse and sail to victory. Of course it flew in the face of all known science to that point and like all such snake oil sales, it still does.
On the subject of improvements, do you mean specifically performance wise in racehorses...or just pretty much anything at all?
As far as Standardbreds are concerned, I think it's generally accepted that the speed explosion started with the siring deeds of Meadow Skipper but I don't believe it to be the case that the horse himself was the one and only factor at work. His emergence as a sire of raw speed coincided with adoption of AI, vast improvements in training methods, catch drivers, better feeding & vet care, improved racetrack and race bike design etc. That might be getting off the track a bit though.

[HARNESSTRAGIC]

[VVV] Sorry Jett, you hit on a bit of a raw nerve there.
Many years ago Ivers was actually a member of the forerunner to the US Harnesslist, it was called Post Parade, and I was also member of that forum.
While being fortunate enough to have as it's members fellas such as Murray Brown, the late Kurt Greene, Ralph Succee etc. it also had a few real loonies in residence.
Valley Vic, a fella singularly obsessed with a beer by the name of Rolling Rock was one who springs to mind and for different reasons but not so far behind him was Tom Ivers.
Time & time again Tom would bang on about Interval Training & Carbo-loading...the latter being a theory that he had whereby he claimed that with the right type of diet & training a horseman could not just load but in fact 'overload' the cells of the body with carbohydrate energy & thus gain an edge over the competition.
This, he claimed, specifically when fed in conjunction with Interval Training, was just the bee's knees. :eek::eek::eek::eek:
As fortune would have it he just so happened to also sell the mystical super carbohyrdate compounds with which you could 'overload' your horse and sail to victory. Of course it flew in the face of all known science to that point and like all such snake oil sales, it still does.
On the subject of improvements, do you mean specifically performance wise in racehorses...or just pretty much anything at all?
As far as Standardbreds are concerned, I think it's generally accepted that the speed explosion started with the siring deeds of Meadow Skipper but I don't believe it to be the case that the horse himself was the one and only factor at work. His emergence as a sire of raw speed coincided with adoption of AI, vast improvements in training methods, catch drivers, better feeding & vet care, improved racetrack and race bike design etc. That might be getting off the track a bit though.

WOW at the risk of repeating myself .
That was one heck of a reply to a chap making a point about it being almost impossible to achieve dramatic improvement in fitness in a short time.

[Itisi]

WOW at the risk of repeating myself .
That was one heck of a reply to a chap making a point about it being almost impossible to achieve dramatic improvement in fitness in a short time.Sorry buddy but have to agree with 123 here your man selling all this shite is full off shite

[HARNESSTRAGIC]

Sorry buddy but have to agree with 123 here your man selling all this shite is full off shite

I Will certainly take that highly inteligent thought provoking advice on board for future reference .
Thank you Itisi

[triplev123]

Sorry buddy but have to agree with 123 here your man selling all this shite is full off shite

[VVV] Nah, no more sales Mick. Tom fell off his pearch a few years ago now.
The ridiculous thing was that old mate's idea of smashing bucket loads of carbohydrates into a horse is easily the quickest way to get them to develop severe systemic lactic acidosis and founder, both by way of the overload of sugars fermenting in their stomach.

[HARNESSTRAGIC]

[VVV] Nah, no more sales Mick. Tom fell off his pearch a few years ago now.
The ridiculous thing was that old mate's idea of smashing bucket loads of carbohydrates into a horse is easily the quickest way to get them to develop severe systemic lactic acidosis and founder, both by way of the overload of sugars fermenting in their stomach.

Here is an article about the man that tripple 123 is ridiculing ,calling old mate , and dismissing he's life time work. http://hoofcare.blogspot.com/2005/11/tom-ivers-equine-sport-science-guru.html

Note the author refers to Tom as a brilliant Man , Funny I don't recall too many (except a couple of his loyal subjects) describing tripple 123 in this way.

[racefair]

[VVV] Sorry Jett, you hit on a bit of a raw nerve there.
Many years ago Ivers was actually a member of the forerunner to the US Harnesslist, it was called Post Parade, and I was also member of that forum.
While being fortunate enough to have as it's members fellas such as Murray Brown, the late Kurt Greene, Ralph Succee etc. it also had a few real loonies in residence.
Valley Vic, a fella singularly obsessed with a beer by the name of Rolling Rock was one who springs to mind and for different reasons but not so far behind him was Tom Ivers.
Time & time again Tom would bang on about Interval Training & Carbo-loading...the latter being a theory that he had whereby he claimed that with the right type of diet & training a horseman could not just load but in fact 'overload' the cells of the body with carbohydrate energy & thus gain an edge over the competition.
This, he claimed, specifically when fed in conjunction with Interval Training, was just the bee's knees. :eek::eek::eek::eek:
As fortune would have it he just so happened to also sell the mystical super carbohyrdate compounds with which you could 'overload' your horse and sail to victory. Of course it flew in the face of all known science to that point and like all such snake oil sales, it still does.
On the subject of improvements, do you mean specifically performance wise in racehorses...or just pretty much anything at all?
As far as Standardbreds are concerned, I think it's generally accepted that the speed explosion started with the siring deeds of Meadow Skipper but I don't believe it to be the case that the horse himself was the one and only factor at work. His emergence as a sire of raw speed coincided with adoption of AI, vast improvements in training methods, catch drivers, better feeding & vet care, improved racetrack and race bike design etc. That might be getting off the track a bit though.

Hi Jamie,
It seems that we have digressed a little with Tom Ivers. I did note that he was just a name that I quickly thought of that had information on the rate of improvement of a racehorse over time using a particular training methodology. Alot of training methods still incorporate Intervals which I don't think was invented by Tom Ivers. I don't remember timelines, however I do remember carbohydrate loading being popular among athletes. See this article by the Australian Institute of Sport which discusses a 2-3% improvement with Carbohydrate loading.
http://www.ausport.gov.au/ais/nutrition/factsheets/competition_and_training2/carbohydrate_loading
Horses are of course different; however it seems that Tom Ivers wasn’t the only person with the idea. See this article in 1985.
http://articles.chicagotribune.com/1985-06-30/news/8502120152_1_muscle-performance-horse-program-energy
So then, as you have a good understanding of same, what is the biggest improvement in training that you know of in elite athletes/racehorses under controlled conditions and without drugs?

I’m not sure I understand your point in regards to the “speed explosion” and “raw speed”. My opinion is that raw speed helps more in sit and sprint type races such that you see on the smaller tracks. However racing over 1600 metres at places like Menangle is more of an Aerobic event and therefore more of an Endurance race. Take Min Min Lights for example. This horse didn’t have much raw speed, however was “transformed” into a horse that could maintain a high speed for an extended period when Ian Wilson started to train him.

[Danno]

Here is an article about the man that tripple 123 is ridiculing ,calling old mate , and dismissing he's life time work. http://hoofcare.blogspot.com/2005/11/tom-ivers-equine-sport-science-guru.html

Note the author refers to Tom as a brilliant Man , Funny I don't recall too many (except a couple of his loyal subjects) describing tripple 123 in this way.

Ron, what you will learn about the workings of this forum, is that dribble ( sorry Triple) and supported by, but to a lesser extent his minions, form an opinion, bag anyone who dares to differ and then project their opinions as FACT.

It's a form of intimidation and they have it down pat.

The disappointing aspect, to me, is they ( dribble.echo etc.) are actually chasing away more potential long term members/posters and therefore stifleing an open forum.

About twenty years ago a bloke i was driving horses for adopted the Tom Ivers interval training method, and he was going to adopt the carb loading bit as well, however , I'd had experienced a few issues with horses tying up ( in particular mares) and convinced him to take it one step at a time cos I could see the possibilty of the two defeating one another.

Anyway, this bloke's horses improved dramatically, not overnight, but in a peroid of about 8 maybe ten weeks they were bigger and stronger, undeniably and it showed in their raceday performances.

Tom Ivers was no mug despite what the goons on this forum have to say, the dropkicks have never trained a horse, but they sure can throw aspersions on a lot of folks who can wth their well tuned tactics.

Cheers,

Dan

[racefair]

if Luke was improving at such astronomical rates all the horses he's getting, how come he's not winning every single race he enters?

Hi Nathan,
I don't mean to be a smart arse, however LM won every race that he entered today. These are metropolitan races and what are supposed to be the toughest in Australia. LM beat 32 other horses to the line today. That's a 100% strike rate if you take out his horses that placed in the same races and couldn't win unless they deadheated.

[triplev123]

Here is an article about the man that tripple 123 is ridiculing ,calling old mate , and dismissing he's life time work. http://hoofcare.blogspot.com/2005/11/tom-ivers-equine-sport-science-guru.html

Note the author refers to Tom as a brilliant Man , Funny I don't recall too many (except a couple of his loyal subjects) describing tripple 123 in this way.

[VVV] Ha! I am sure that if I look hard enough for long enough I'll be able to locate a piece that swears Dr. Jim Cairns was the darling of Free Enterprise.
Ron, instead of sitting up the back, fiddling with the Bunsen Burner taps and carving your initials into the desk with a compass, you should have paid more attention in Biology & Chemistry...because that way you wouldn't get so easily hoodwinked by rubbish science.
The Carbon Tax crap that the current Federal Government has been going on with also relies on exploiting the exact same basic science knowledge vacuum that Ivers used to zero in on when seeking to sell his snake oil.

[HARNESSTRAGIC]

Hi Nathan,
I don't mean to be a smart arse, however LM won every race that he entered today. These are metropolitan races and what are supposed to be the toughest in Australia. LM beat 32 other horses to the line today. That's a 100% strike rate if you take out his horses that placed in the same races and couldn't win unless they deadheated.

I remember reading on here a post from tripple 123 defending claims about LM were he made the statement that he recalled the same things being said about Fitzy and thorny in the past.

In all the time that Paul Fitzpatrick was on top I can never recall anyone doubt his results.
Every one knew that he was getting good stock they were getting well trained and driven, .
Yes they won lots of races ,but nothing out of the ordinary .if a fitzpatrick horse turned for home equal with another trainers horse because of it being improved by half a length or so (because it was trained by a professional) most of the time it would get up , not race away by a big margin and hard held the likes we are seeing today.
Now we come to the authors second trainer that he tried to slip in with a highly respected trainer as to try to indicate that he too was being wrongly accused of something sinister.
the trainer who only ever trained the odd winner, who rose to prominence when he was conveneintly stabled next to Menangle .( go back and have a look at his record away from Menangle)
What happened to this fellow when the stewards camped at his place for the day , for those with a bad memory his horses along with a interstate visiting mare that went like a lear jet the week before where not sighted, this same trainer has barely trained a winner since the introduction of the 2hr on course time requirement was introduced.
We'll have to see how he goes now that it has been changed back to one hour

The author of that thread seems to believe that every one else is a gullable as he is, well guess what tripple 123 were not .
Take the time to go to Menangle and talk to a few of the professional trainers (like I have ) and ask them their opinion of what is happening at the moment

[Mighty Atom]

Hello racefair,I'm with you.Ive seen it in person over many years:trainers not averse to gaining an advantage no matter what. Feeding,training facilities,training methods are only part of the equation all be it a big part. Being a pragmatist and what I have seen of performances of trainers and horses over the years I know it is not a level playing field. I see the results of certain trainers and the performances of certain horses and I cant help but relate to that philosophical quote of Edgar Allan Poe : " Is all that we see or seem but a dream within a dream?"

[Old Frank]

Hi Nathan,
I don't mean to be a smart arse, however LM won every race that he entered today. These are metropolitan races and what are supposed to be the toughest in Australia. LM beat 32 other horses to the line today. That's a 100% strike rate if you take out his horses that placed in the same races and couldn't win unless they deadheated.




Hey Racefair,

Your 100% right, Luke had an exceptional afternoon, but he didn't on Tuesday where he certainly didn't win every race he had runners.

My statement was a generalisation of his whole team, but yes, today was a great day for his team.

These are metro races and he had the team at the right grades, at the right time with the right nominating conditions to get them in to the maximum potential winning advantage.

His team looked good and I hope he continues on with his success. I know first hand from being in a stable environment in the past, a whole lot of factors come together to get a good team humming and realise it on the day and today was McCarthy's day.

I seem to recall not too long ago the Fitzpatrick's getting 4 and 5 winners at HP and it seemed to be the regular thing. Now it's McCarthy's turn on top and he's making every post a winner.

[triplev123]

I remember reading on here a post from tripple 123 defending claims about LM were he made the statement that he recalled the same things being said about Fitzy and thorny in the past.

In all the time that Paul Fitzpatrick was on top I can never recall anyone doubt his results.
Every one knew that he was getting good stock they were getting well trained and driven, .
Yes they won lots of races ,but nothing out of the ordinary .if a fitzpatrick horse turned for home equal with another trainers horse because of it being trained by a professional most of the time it would get up , not race away by a big margin and hard held the likes we are seeing today.
Now we come to the authors second trainer that he tried to slip in with a highly respected trainer as to try to indicate that he too was being wrongly accused of something sinister.
the trainer who only ever trained the odd winner, who rose to prominence when he was conveneintly stabled next to Menangle .( go back and have a look at his record away from Menangle)
What happened to this fellow when the stewards camped at his place for the day , for those with a bad memory his horses along with a interstate visiting mare that went like a lear jet the week before where not sighted, this same trainer has barely trained a winner since the introduction of the 2hr on course time requirement was introduced.
We'll have to see how he goes now that it has been changed back to one hour

The author of that thread seems to believe that every one else is a gullable as he is, well guess what tripple were not .
Take the time to go to Menangle and talk to a few of the professional trainers (like I have ) and ask them their opinion of what is happening at the moment

[VVV] Nah, that was merely highlighting the fact that, whoever you may be...whatever your surname...whenever you're on top of your game you're always going to be the focus of the Trolls...these evil, bitter, green-eyed creatures who periodically emerge from under bridges, Hell bent on dragging you back down to their level again.
The Trolls most certainly lined up on Paul, they lined up on Thorny and now... surprise, surprise, they are lining up on Luke. Unfortunately, that's how it is apparently.
Starve to death in the gutter having never won a race & you're an all round great bloke. Win a race maybe once a year & everyone's very happy for you...but pick it up from there & slowly but surely the congrats stop coming. Win regularly and you're the biggest bastard to have ever drawn breath. Nothing more, nothing less than jealousy...the terribly wicked thing that it is.

[Danno]

[VVV] Ha! I am sure that if I look hard enough for long enough I'll be able to locate a piece that swears Dr. Jim Cairns was the darling of Free Enterprise.
Ron, instead of sitting up the back, fiddling with the Bunsen Burner taps and carving your initials into the desk with a compass, you should have paid more attention in Biology & Chemistry...because that way you wouldn't get so easily hoodwinked by rubbish science.
The Carbon Tax crap that the current Federal Government has been going on with also relies on exploiting the exact same basic science knowledge vacuum that Ivers used to zero in on when seeking to sell his snake oil.

Fair dinkum Jamie that is your dribble at it's absolute worst, mate, go to bed, maybe take tranquiliser, and wake up tommorrow a new?? man??

[triplev123]

Fair dinkum Jamie that is your dribble at it's absolute worst, mate, go to bed, maybe take tranquiliser, and wake up tommorrow a new?? man??

[VVV] Labor voter eh Dan?

[Messenger]

[VVV] Ha! I am sure that if I look hard enough for long enough I'll be able to locate a piece that swears Dr. Jim Cairns was the darling of Free Enterprise.
Ron, instead of sitting up the back, fiddling with the Bunsen Burner taps and carving your initials into the desk with a compass, you should have paid more attention in Biology & Chemistry...because that way you wouldn't get so easily hoodwinked by rubbish science.
The Carbon Tax crap that the current Federal Government has been going on with also relies on exploiting the exact same basic science knowledge vacuum that Ivers used to zero in on when seeking to sell his snake oil.

Whacky reply that one - any chemicals in the system???

[triplev123]

Whacky reply that one - any chemicals in the system???

[VVV] Caffeine + an oral antibiotic & some voltaren gel (external use only). :rolleyes:

[HARNESSTRAGIC]

[VVV] Nah, that was merely highlighting the fact that, whoever you may be...whatever your surname...whenever you're on top of your game you're always going to be the focus of the Trolls...these evil, bitter, green-eyed creatures who periodically emerge from under bridges, Hell bent on dragging you back down to their level again.
The Trolls most certainly lined up on Paul, they lined up on Thorny and now... surprise, surprise, they are lining up on Luke. Unfortunately, that's how it is apparently.
Starve to death in the gutter having never won a race & you're an all round great bloke. Win a race maybe once a year & everyone's very happy for you...but pick it up from there & slowly but surely the congrats stop coming. Win regularly and you're the biggest bastard to have ever drawn breath. Nothing more, nothing less than jealousy...the terribly wicked thing that it is.

Do you honestly believe that stuff?

[triplev123]

[VVV] Are you serious? Jesus wept. Sometimes this forum's like being in an episode of The Twilight Zone and I'm sitting here waiting for Vic Morrow to post something. Ron, what more evidence of the above do you need than some of the absolutely disgraceful, totally baseless accusations and that have been levelled on this forum since its inception?..and before that, on the Harnesslink main page before that finally got sorted out.

[HARNESSTRAGIC]

[VVV] Nah, that was merely highlighting the fact that, whoever you may be...whatever your surname...whenever you're on top of your game you're always going to be the focus of the Trolls...these evil, bitter, green-eyed creatures who periodically emerge from under bridges, Hell bent on dragging you back down to their level again.
The Trolls most certainly lined up on Paul, they lined up on Thorny and now... surprise, surprise, they are lining up on Luke. Unfortunately, that's how it is apparently.
Starve to death in the gutter having never won a race & you're an all round great bloke. Win a race maybe once a year & everyone's very happy for you...but pick it up from there & slowly but surely the congrats stop coming. Win regularly and you're the biggest bastard to have ever drawn breath. Nothing more, nothing less than jealousy...the terribly wicked thing that it is.

Seems like there is a growing list of, evil bitter green eyed trolls , or maybe just a growing list of reasonable thinking non blinded people that know when their being taken for a ride.

[triplev123]

Well nobody is stopping you Ron. Free will Brother, free will. Do something about it. If you're so absolutely sure of your ground then how about you Man up for crying out loud? Get in your car... or better still, seeing as how you now say there's a growing list...go hire yourselves a Bus & you can all go. Make a day of it. Ring and make an appointment with Reid Sanders & Co. over at HRNSW and express your concerns to them in person instead of getting on here and conducting your own petty little Kangaroo Court judge, jury and executioner routine. If you & your cohorts are not prepared to do so then perhaps it's best that subject wise you move on to something else. The ball's in your Court mate. Either swing away...or let it go.

[Danno]

[VVV] Labor voter eh Dan?

you really have no idea don't you

[triplev123]

you really have no idea don't you

[VVV] Is that a split or double infinitive? I can't remember. See, now English has gone & failed us both Dan. We're all victims. Hooray! :rolleyes:

[Gtrain]

Ron your incredibly boring. Everyone on here is open to opinions and listening to ideas. If clashing opinions becomes a debate and humour is a tact that is used don't cry if your not up to it. I enjoy reading intelligent debate offering valid opposing sides of the argument but Ron your offering nothing but dribble. I was always given the advice never argue with imbeciles as observers can't tell the difference. Since your introduction here Ron I continue to repeat this advice to myself but nonetheless I couldn't help myself. There has been many healthy debates here before your introduction and there will be many more after you get sick of it also.

[HARNESSTRAGIC]

Ron your incredibly boring. Everyone on here is open to opinions and listening to ideas. If clashing opinions becomes a debate and humour is a tact that is used don't cry if your not up to it. I enjoy reading intelligent debate offering valid opposing sides of the argument but Ron your offering nothing but dribble. I was always given the advice never argue with imbeciles as observers can't tell the difference. Since your introduction here Ron I continue to repeat this advice to myself but nonetheless I couldn't help myself. There has been many healthy debates here before your introduction and there will be many more after you get sick of it also.


Will take Your advice on board Grant and try to be a bit nicer , but sometimes when you see a pimple you just got to squeeze it

[Dmoore]

Harness Racing Scandal-Will it ever end? UPDATES (http://aussiecriminals.wordpress.com/2011/11/28/harness-racing-scandal-will-it-ever-end/)

Posted: November 28, 2011 in Australian Crimes (http://aussiecriminals.wordpress.com/category/australian-crimes/), Corruption (http://aussiecriminals.wordpress.com/category/corruption/), Crimes (http://aussiecriminals.wordpress.com/category/crimes/), Criminals (http://aussiecriminals.wordpress.com/category/criminals/), Current News (http://aussiecriminals.wordpress.com/category/current-news/), Sports Cheats (http://aussiecriminals.wordpress.com/category/sports-cheats-2/)
Tags: Ben Sarina (http://aussiecriminals.wordpress.com/tag/ben-sarina/), Cameron Fitzpatrick (http://aussiecriminals.wordpress.com/tag/cameron-fitzpatrick/), Dean Atkinson (http://aussiecriminals.wordpress.com/tag/dean-atkinson/), Greg Bennett (http://aussiecriminals.wordpress.com/tag/greg-bennett/), Greg Sarina (http://aussiecriminals.wordpress.com/tag/greg-sarina/), Harness racing (http://aussiecriminals.wordpress.com/tag/harness-racing/), Menangle New South Wales (http://aussiecriminals.wordpress.com/tag/menangle-new-south-wales/), Michael Russo (http://aussiecriminals.wordpress.com/tag/michael-russo/), Miracle Mile (http://aussiecriminals.wordpress.com/tag/miracle-mile/), New South Wales Police Force (http://aussiecriminals.wordpress.com/tag/new-south-wales-police-force/), Paul O’Toole (http://aussiecriminals.wordpress.com/tag/paul-otoole/), Race Fixing (http://aussiecriminals.wordpress.com/tag/race-fixing/), Sports Cheats (http://aussiecriminals.wordpress.com/tag/sports-cheats-2/), Strike Force Tairora (http://aussiecriminals.wordpress.com/tag/strike-force-tairora/)
4 (http://aussiecriminals.wordpress.com/2011/11/28/harness-racing-scandal-will-it-ever-end/#comments)






i


2 Votes

http://pixel.quantserve.com/pixel/p-ab3gTb8xb3dLg.gif
I covered this when it first broke and while ago in another thread, but we are still barely breaking the tip of the iceberg folks. This si going to become the BIGGEST SCANDAL ever seen in any SPORT in this COUNTRY if not the world. The scope of the con is so wide and so deep that it may take the whole deck of cards to fall where every player is putting in the other to try to save some jail time. From top line trainers, starters, stewards, Rookies, young and old, Punters, bookmakers and Vets.
This is an outrage that it was allowed to fester along for years until it became common knowledge and still nothing was done with the bloody head in the sand attitude of NSW Harness Racing (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harness_racing) Authority Officials.Those involved had their noses so deep in the trough they must have been blinded by greed to let it prosper and think they would not get caught.
What will happen to those who make it to court and prosecutions? STUFF ALL is my guess, banned from tracks, big deal, a slap on the wrist, a few thousand dollars in fines and a mate will get you a job somewhere for keeping your mouth shut in 6 months time! The whole Board and every single official MUST be scrutinised as should every single driver to of ever won a race over these last few years, and that is probably not going back far enough.
The difficult part will be keeping on top of what’s going on with who, the Industry is now a shambles with shifty eyes, distrust, secret meetings and phone calls etc. At least if the NSW Police (http://www.police.nsw.gov.au/) and the Government are fair dinkum is leaving no stone unturned, these cheating bastards have already been Identified, been under surveillance and recorded with plenty of evidence.

Robbo
http://aussiecriminals.files.wordpress.com/2010/08/aussiecriminals-sig1.png?w=300&h=103 (http://aussiecriminals.files.wordpress.com/2010/08/aussiecriminals-sig1.png)

[Maorisidol]

Not sure who i should be asking this question of...
is it Harnesslink Forum management/moderators?
is it Jaimie Varcoe?

Here's my question/problem...
Post number 129 has Danno calling VVV a Tool Handler
Post number 130 has VVV's reply
Post number 131 then has Aussiebreno defending VVV who he feels is being "stalked" however curiously, in Brennos post 131 it contains a "quote" from Danno that does not appear on this forum. This Danno quote is lambasting VVV in quite a negative way, but again, it curiously has quickly disappeared??????????????

Who took down Dannos post?
Does VVV have any control/capability to do so?
I feel a little favoritism and protection here as others have also alluded to the fact that when u get on the wrong side of VVV u are hit with condescending little remarks from him.
i have no problem with debate and discussion but i find VVV is quite purposely belittling and i dont feel that tone is of good character here. But maybe thats his character.

Next question will be, will this post be posted or will it be taken down after a quick read by the parties involved?

And while im on a roll, i find it very surprising that www.harnessracingforum.com allow constant youtube "clickthroughs" on here.
I own 2 websites that sell things, and when u want people on your site, u want them to stay as long as possible, so when someone is posting youtube bollocks on here that makes people LEAVE this site, that is not good for business! The chance of someone clicking on VVV's youtube bollocks and NOT COMING BACK in the immediate time is very high.
youtube has SO MUCH to distract anyone who could stay there for hours potentially, there is that much diverse content. As a website owner i wouldnt want to risk that.

Has harnessracingfrorum come down to a comedy show by VVV?
Is he the new entertainment?
U may get the idea i find it quite annoying, its a bit like a "look at me!" cry...............

[mango]

Hi Ash
Just returned from work and checked my e-mails, normally if there is a post someone doesn't like they report them and it goes straight to my personal e-mail address and if they don't and i happen to come across one i think shouldn't be there it will be removed. I think some people have to be more respectfull of other people's opinion's whether they are right or wrong and just reply with a sensible reply/answer. Ash as i'm not on here all the time it's hard to keep track of what's going on so it would be appreciated if you or anyone else could please report the post's they think are not warranted. You can also inbox me anytime if there are any question's you have.

CHEERS

MANGO

[HARNESSTRAGIC]

Hi Ash
Just returned from work and checked my e-mails, normally if there is a post someone doesn't like they report them and it goes straight to my personal e-mail address and if they don't and i happen to come across one i think shouldn't be there it will be removed. I think some people have to be more respectfull of other people's opinion's whether they are right or wrong and just reply with a sensible reply/answer. Ash as i'm not on here all the time it's hard to keep track of what's going on so it would be appreciated if you or anyone else could please report the post's they think are not warranted. You can also inbox me anytime if there are any question's you have.

CHEERS

MANGO

Thanks Mango For Clearing A few thing's up .

I think the fact a lot of us newer members weren't aware of how to go about an offensive post ( usually a you tube video or a tirade of abuse, aimed at belittling members who happen to not agree with him) and when we have responded ,people have either had their post deleted or been banned.

A LEVEL PLAYING FIELD IS ALL ONE CAN ASK FOR .

CHEERS RON

[triplev123]

not sure who i should be asking this question of...
Is it harnesslink forum management/moderators? yes. Jules & co.
is it jaimie varcoe? no. You'll never get any sense out of him. Mean spirited, nasty bastard. Ask anyone who knows him. Terrible person. Scurrilous. Bitter. Twisted.

here's my question/problem...
Post number 129 has danno calling vvv a tool handler sparkling stuff that huh?
post number 130 has vvv's reply no doubt a well thought out & considered one.
post number 131 then has aussiebreno defending vvv who he feels is being "stalked" however curiously, in brennos post 131 it contains a "quote" from danno that does not appear on this forum. This danno quote is lambasting vvv in quite a negative way, but again, it curiously has quickly disappeared??????????????
breno and i both agree and disagree on a great many things but as far as i can recall, i'm yet to accuse him or him me, of being a tool handler.
personally, i can't remember ever having said anything like that to anyone on this forum. If i have then please highlight it and i will gladly fall upon my sword. The thing is ash, unlike the peanut gallery, i don't need to resort to that in order to get my point across. Obviously others must do so however.

who took down dannos post? who knows? Certainly not me. Maybe danno did that himself.

does vvv have any control/capability to do so?
ash, it may disappoint your closely held conspiracy theory here to know...none whatsoever. Was offered it but i said no. I was not going to leave myself open to that which you have so very errantly charged. Apology accepted in advance.

i feel a little favoritism and protection here as others have also alluded to the fact that when u get on the wrong side of vvv u are hit with condescending little remarks from him. you reckon? Go have a look back a ways. I've been banned myself for taking the micky on the real names policy posting as neville bartos etc., a policy which i might add, to date, has clearly not worked as effectively as intended/expected.


i have no problem with debate and discussion but i find vvv is quite purposely belittling and i dont feel that tone is of good character here. But maybe thats his character.
ah yes, the last refuge of scoundrels. Nothing like a little character assassination while awarding yourself the moral high ground. Gimme a break.


next question will be, will this post be posted or will it be taken down after a quick read by the parties involved? no. Far better that it remain here as, for want of a better term, a cyber-monument to the error of your current line of thinking, ash. :p

and while im on a roll, i find it very surprising that www.harnessracingforum.com (http://www.harnessracingforum.com) allow constant youtube "clickthroughs" on here.
I own 2 websites that sell things, and when u want people on your site, u want them to stay as long as possible, so when someone is posting youtube bollocks on here that makes people leave this site, that is not good for business! The chance of someone clicking on vvv's youtube bollocks and not coming back in the immediate time is very high.
Youtube has so much to distract anyone who could stay there for hours potentially, there is that much diverse content. As a website owner i wouldnt want to risk that. :confused::confused::confused:jesus wept so profusely he created an in-land sea. That's just pathetic. Talk about reaching for straws.

has harnessracingfrorum come down to a comedy show by vvv?
dr. Welzer...great to see dr. Welzer here tonight. Wonderful doctor.
gave a guy 6 months to live...but the guy couldn't pay his bill...so he gave him another six months. Thank you, thank you, you're a wonderful audience. (with thanks to henny youngman)

is he the new entertainment? i do my best. I also do pretty good impersonations. Here's one of cal micallef. "jaaaaaimie...how long does it take you to get me a bloody coffee for christ's sake?" "i'm dyin' here".
cal's pretty easy to do because all of my impersonated voices...irish, scottish, whatever...come out sounding like they're maltese. This is the cross that i must bear. :rolleyes:

u may get the idea i find it quite annoying, its a bit like a "look at me!" cry...............
you have crushed my spirit ash. I may never smile again. :rolleyes:



vvv

[triplev123]

Thanks Mango For Clearing A few thing's up .

I think the fact a lot of us newer members weren't aware of how to go about an offensive post ( usually a you tube video or a tirade of abuse, aimed at belittling members who happen to not agree with him) and when we have responded ,people have either had their post deleted or been banned.

A LEVEL PLAYING FIELD IS ALL ONE CAN ASK FOR .

CHEERS RON


[VVV] Please highlight just one such tirade of abuse...Ron. Not ones that, for whatever reason, you think exist...ones that actually do exist.

[HARNESSTRAGIC]

[VVV] Please highlight just one such tirade of abuse...Ron. Not ones that, for whatever reason, you think exist...ones that actually do exist.



Originally Posted by triplev123
[VVV] Ha! I am sure that if I look hard enough for long enough I'll be able to locate a piece that swears Dr. Jim Cairns was the darling of Free Enterprise.
Ron, instead of sitting up the back, fiddling with the Bunsen Burner taps and carving your initials into the desk with a compass, you should have paid more attention in Biology & Chemistry...because that way you wouldn't get so easily hoodwinked by rubbish science.
The Carbon Tax crap that the current Federal Government has been going on with also relies on exploiting the exact same basic science knowledge vacuum that Ivers used to zero in on when seeking to sell his snake oil.

WOW , HAD TO GO BACK 1 WHOLE PAGE TO FIND THIS ONE----- ,BUTWAIT I'M SURE THERE WILL BE MORE

[HARNESSTRAGIC]

jesus wept so profusely he created an in-land sea. That's just pathetic. Talk about reaching for straws.


NOT ABUSE ????

[HARNESSTRAGIC]

[VVV] Labor voter eh Dan?

THAT"S SURELY ABUSE

[triplev123]

Take out of context cut & pasted replies to posts...and that's your evidence?
You've got a very, very strange idea of that which constitutes abuse, Ron. Very strange indeed.
How about you do me a favour and just ignore me and in return I will ignore you and your mates and all will be happy in the garden? Shop around. You'll not beat that deal.

[triplev123]

[VVV] Labor voter eh Dan?

THAT"S SURELY ABUSE

[VVV] Depends entirely upon your political persuasion.

[HARNESSTRAGIC]

Take out of context cut & pasted replies to posts...and that's your evidence?
You've got a very, very strange idea of that which constitutes abuse, Ron. Very strange indeed.
How about you do me a favour and just ignore me and in return I will ignore you and your mates and all will be happy in the garden? Shop around. You'll not beat that deal.

Tripple can you hand on heart tell me that calling someone a LABOR VOTER is not an insult lol

Yeh best to ignore each other ,but something tell's me it will be just as hard for you as it will for me.

[Just Saying]

I think you two guys should get a room. ;)

[triplev123]

Somewhat ill-considered on my part perhaps. If you're in Rob Oakeshott's electorate for example, I've no doubt that it is. Instead of taking that Bus to HRNSW, why don't you take a trip to Menangle one night & I'll meet all you guys out there?

Rgds

Jaimie

[Maorisidol]

http://www.harnessracingforum.com/images/misc/quote_icon.png Originally Posted by maorisidol http://www.harnessracingforum.com/images/buttons/viewpost-right.png (http://www.harnessracingforum.com/showthread.php?p=15215#post15215)
not sure who i should be asking this question of...
Is it harnesslink forum management/moderators? yes. Jules & co.
is it jaimie varcoe? no. You'll never get any sense out of him. Mean spirited, nasty bastard. Ask anyone who knows him. Terrible person. Scurrilous. Bitter. Twisted.

here's my question/problem...
Post number 129 has danno calling vvv a tool handler sparkling stuff that huh?
post number 130 has vvv's reply no doubt a well thought out & considered one.
post number 131 then has aussiebreno defending vvv who he feels is being "stalked" however curiously, in brennos post 131 it contains a "quote" from danno that does not appear on this forum. This danno quote is lambasting vvv in quite a negative way, but again, it curiously has quickly disappeared??????????????
breno and i both agree and disagree on a great many things but as far as i can recall, i'm yet to accuse him or him me, of being a tool handler.
personally, i can't remember ever having said anything like that to anyone on this forum. If i have then please highlight it and i will gladly fall upon my sword. The thing is ash, unlike the peanut gallery, i don't need to resort to that in order to get my point across. Obviously others must do so however.
Maorisidol. my point u seem to miss VVV is about the disappearing post!!! not the word "tool" and who did or did not use it...my question was how and why did it disappear so quickly, Mango has now given me clues as to who can make that happen, either himself, or someone who is upset by VVV being ragged out publicly and cant stand to have the post remain public.
maybe Jaimie with your responses to people sometimes with your "old mate, trooper" and also other condescending examples i cant b bothererd looking for, slowly chip away at people along with the youtube bollocks and then people finally come out with "tool"? again, thats a question for you to consider, its not an accusation :D

who took down dannos post? who knows? Certainly not me. Maybe danno did that himself.

does vvv have any control/capability to do so?
ash, it may disappoint your closely held conspiracy theory here to know...none whatsoever. Was offered it but i said no. I was not going to leave myself open to that which you have so very errantly charged. Apology accepted in advance.
MI. No apology from here, as i didnt make an accusation VVV, i asked a question!!!
i asked a question because i didnt know, now i know a little more.

i feel a little favoritism and protection here as others have also alluded to the fact that when u get on the wrong side of vvv u are hit with condescending little remarks from him. you reckon? Go have a look back a ways. I've been banned myself for taking the micky on the real names policy posting as neville bartos etc., a policy which i might add, to date, has clearly not worked as effectively as intended/expected.


i have no problem with debate and discussion but i find vvv is quite purposely belittling and i dont feel that tone is of good character here. But maybe thats his character.
ah yes, the last refuge of scoundrels. Nothing like a little character assassination while awarding yourself the moral high ground. Gimme a break.
MI. ah yes, i'm a scoundrel for having an opinion, no-one is allowed an opinion here unless VVV approves of it


next question will be, will this post be posted or will it be taken down after a quick read by the parties involved? no. Far better that it remain here as, for want of a better term, a cyber-monument to the error of your current line of thinking, ash. :p
MI. again no error, my whole post was to ask questions and i got the answers

and while im on a roll, i find it very surprising that www.harnessracingforum.com (http://www.harnessracingforum.com) allow constant youtube "clickthroughs" on here.
I own 2 websites that sell things, and when u want people on your site, u want them to stay as long as possible, so when someone is posting youtube bollocks on here that makes people leave this site, that is not good for business! The chance of someone clicking on vvv's youtube bollocks and not coming back in the immediate time is very high.
Youtube has so much to distract anyone who could stay there for hours potentially, there is that much diverse content. As a website owner i wouldnt want to risk that. :confused::confused::confused:jesus wept so profusely he created an in-land sea. That's just pathetic. Talk about reaching for straws.
MI. Do u not have a business mind Jaimie?
unless a website has "google-ads" where they collect money from when people "clickthrough" to other websites or are collecting money from ads posted on that site, it doesnt make sense that they would be happy for people to leave prematurely. its called money.

has harnessracingfrorum come down to a comedy show by vvv?
dr. Welzer...great to see dr. Welzer here tonight. Wonderful doctor.
gave a guy 6 months to live...but the guy couldn't pay his bill...so he gave him another six months. Thank you, thank you, you're a wonderful audience. (with thanks to henny youngman)
MI. dribble.

is he the new entertainment? i do my best. I also do pretty good impersonations. Here's one of cal micallef. "jaaaaaimie...how long does it take you to get me a bloody coffee for christ's sake?" "i'm dyin' here".
cal's pretty easy to do because all of my impersonated voices...irish, scottish, whatever...come out sounding like they're maltese. This is the cross that i must bear. :rolleyes:
MI. dribble.

u may get the idea i find it quite annoying, its a bit like a "look at me!" cry...............
you have crushed my spirit ash. I may never smile again. :rolleyes:

I think its great that in the last 3-6 months and now in this new year, there are quite a few new posters, its good for the forum its good for the trots, lets hope not too many are scared away or belittled when their opinion is their opinion.
i have had "debates/discussions" with people here but i dont recall trying to make anyone feel inferior or small...

[triplev123]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UPw-3e_pzqU :p

[HARNESSTRAGIC]

Keep your chin up Ash

Most on here know what your saying Buddy


WOW IS THAT ANOTHER YOU TUBE THREAD , HOW ORIGINAL

[Maorisidol]

Keep your chin up Ash

Most on here know what your saying Buddy

No worries Ron, my chins in a good place dont worry about that. Thnx.

[aussiebreno]

Not sure who i should be asking this question of...
is it Harnesslink Forum management/moderators?
is it Jaimie Varcoe?

Here's my question/problem...
Post number 129 has Danno calling VVV a Tool Handler
Post number 130 has VVV's reply
Post number 131 then has Aussiebreno defending VVV who he feels is being "stalked" however curiously, in Brennos post 131 it contains a "quote" from Danno that does not appear on this forum. This Danno quote is lambasting VVV in quite a negative way, but again, it curiously has quickly disappeared??????????????

Who took down Dannos post?
Does VVV have any control/capability to do so?
I feel a little favoritism and protection here as others have also alluded to the fact that when u get on the wrong side of VVV u are hit with condescending little remarks from him.
i have no problem with debate and discussion but i find VVV is quite purposely belittling and i dont feel that tone is of good character here. But maybe thats his character.

Next question will be, will this post be posted or will it be taken down after a quick read by the parties involved?

And while im on a roll, i find it very surprising that www.harnessracingforum.com (http://www.harnessracingforum.com) allow constant youtube "clickthroughs" on here.
I own 2 websites that sell things, and when u want people on your site, u want them to stay as long as possible, so when someone is posting youtube bollocks on here that makes people LEAVE this site, that is not good for business! The chance of someone clicking on VVV's youtube bollocks and NOT COMING BACK in the immediate time is very high.
youtube has SO MUCH to distract anyone who could stay there for hours potentially, there is that much diverse content. As a website owner i wouldnt want to risk that.

Has harnessracingfrorum come down to a comedy show by VVV?
Is he the new entertainment?
U may get the idea i find it quite annoying, its a bit like a "look at me!" cry...............
Hi MaorisIdol.
I actually reported my own post #131! I reported it and said please delete because it is bringing the thread off topic.
I didn't report Dannos post though.

[Thevoiceofreason]

Sorry guys I had no intention of buying into this but enough is enough.

VVV and myself have had a number of very decent debates on this forum about rules, the interpretation thereof and other issues including stewards decisions the efforts of HRNSW and its predecessor the GHRRA, I have won some, he has won some, many have been a simple we will agree to disagree.

I have never been offended by any youtube link or a photo or whatever.

I would like to offer a simple solution to those forum uses who dislike the youtube links "DO NOT USE THEM" you see it is entirely optional, if you do not click on them nothing happens they are just a few typed letters and they on there own cannot offend anyone.

As Sam Kekovich once said "you know it makes sense" and for those youtube lovers,

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gXQLP_uuPx4

[Gtrain]

Sorry guys I had no intention of buying into this but enough is enough.

VVV and myself have had a number of very decent debates on this forum about rules, the interpretation thereof and other issues including stewards decisions the efforts of HRNSW and its predecessor the GHRRA, I have won some, he has won some, many have been a simple we will agree to disagree.

I have never been offended by any youtube link or a photo or whatever.

I would like to offer a simple solution to those forum uses who dislike the youtube links "DO NOT USE THEM" you see it is entirely optional, if you do not click on them nothing happens they are just a few typed letters and they on there own cannot offend anyone.

As Sam Kekovich once said "you know it makes sense" and for those youtube lovers,

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gXQLP_uuPx4

Never a truer statement. They have been entertaining. Can this thread be steered towards the COT rule?

[Messenger]

Ron your incredibly boring. Everyone on here is open to opinions and listening to ideas. If clashing opinions becomes a debate and humour is a tact that is used don't cry if your not up to it. I enjoy reading intelligent debate offering valid opposing sides of the argument but Ron your offering nothing but dribble. I was always given the advice never argue with imbeciles as observers can't tell the difference. Since your introduction here Ron I continue to repeat this advice to myself but nonetheless I couldn't help myself. There has been many healthy debates here before your introduction and there will be many more after you get sick of it also.

That is a digusting Judgemental post (which I am now being too) I am confused as to what brought it on. What sort of clicky board have I joined ????

ps Have never opened a youtube link - what intelligent info am I missing out on LOL

[triplev123]

Never a truer statement. They have been entertaining. Can this thread be steered towards the COT rule?


[VVV] Strange you should mention that Grant. Some indirect feedback came my way today which indicates that we might finally be getting some traction with regard to the COT rule. Either there's someone who's listening in on here...or otherwise it's just a happy coincidence. Either way, I was pleased to hear it.