Trotguide Front page "news"

[Danno]

Great to see the news!!? on the front page of trotguide from HRNSW that all metrop winners and up to three selected winners from all other meetings are now being post raced swabbed!!:o

I must have been dreaming for the last thirty years.

I'm sure some one will be impressed, just struggling to work out who.

[tiny]

Everything exactly the same as pre swab scandal. Hrnsw must now be taking spin lessons for the politicians. Hrnsw everyone can see through you spin wake up and get some new policy's.

[teecee]

Gosh, Aren't we overregulated here in NZ.
In round figures 99% winners whether the race be $3000 or $300,000 but one post race swab in all races.
First 3 in group and significant races although there have been a few exceptions lately

[Thevoiceofreason]

Gosh, Aren't we overregulated here in NZ.
In round figures 99% winners whether the race be $3000 or $300,000 but one post race swab in all races.
First 3 in group and significant races although there have been a few exceptions lately

No you are not for swabbing to be of any significant use every winner should be post race urine tested.

[tiny]

VOR
I agree 100% and pre racing should selected at random by someone other than the stewards and if they want to target trainers or horses this is in addition to the random swabs.

[Thevoiceofreason]

VOR
I agree 100% and pre racing should selected at random by someone other than the stewards and if they want to target trainers or horses this is in addition to the random swabs.

I like your idea but in the end both will come down to a matter of cost... You saw the reaction of Paul Fitzpatrick whem it was suggested prize money may not increase by as much as planned to help pay for extra swabbing.

As I have said before everyone wants integrity no one wants to pay for it.

[tiny]

It may seem expensive but what is the price of the currant swab scandal and what will the price be of the next. In not suggesting that there are more rats in the stewards ranks but I am suggesting that the door has been left wide open for the next steward who decides to sell there sole. Hrnsw have a chance to close the door but would rather release spin.

[Thevoiceofreason]

It may seem expensive but what is the price of the currant swab scandal and what will the price be of the next. In not suggesting that there are more rats in the stewards ranks but I am suggesting that the door has been left wide open for the next steward who decides to sell there sole. Hrnsw have a chance to close the door but would rather release spin.

I support HRNSW as most know but I think you are right on this issue.

[broncobrad]

There is more to this than just money. This is about image and perception. How much lower can a controlling body go and still not make GENUINE change to their regulatory powers. If the sport was travelling ok you would tweak things, but when you are at rock bottom you need to make real change. This isn't something you run away from, this is an opportunity to grab with both hands. Uniform swabbing is expensive but the moment one horse is not swabbed the rumour mongering begins. Find the money, make it happen and close the loopholes. Strong leadership is what NSW harness racing needs right now, not gimmicks, empty headlines or sticking heads in the sand. The administratiors need to start earning their salarys, not just sit back and collect it. Set the standard for the future and build on it.

[Greg Hando]

I would like to see all winner's swabbed regardless of class of race take the cost out of the winner's cheque for the initial test and then no-one can whinge about any other trainer's being on something.

[aussiebreno]

I would like to see all winner's swabbed regardless of class of race take the cost out of the winner's cheque for the initial test and then no-one can whinge about any other trainer's being on something.
So a bloke who wins a $3000 race at Tamworth, Junee etc ends up with what? A $50 petrol voucher, a hotdog and a can of coke? You'll have blokes pulling them up to get 2nd prize-money and no jump in class!!!

And if, although you didn't say it, you mean return the cost if a swab is clear, well I believe prizemoney is already held until swabs are clear.

[murray green]

Your right Brendan . Unfortunately those people doing the right thing are the ones who end up paying the highest cost . I have a problem with what happens after they get caught . When I first came to harness racing it was 12 months first offence . Now its a slap on the wrist and off to bed . A very prominent galloping trainer was caught for using Oripavine {40 times more potent than opium} and received a $4000 fine . In harness racing its not that bad but I think that our last cheif steward had that galloping mentallity and we really need to reintroduce a minimum , harsh sentence .

[mightymo]

Your right Brendan . Unfortunately those people doing the right thing are the ones who end up paying the highest cost . I have a problem with what happens after they get caught . When I first came to harness racing it was 12 months first offence . Now its a slap on the wrist and off to bed . A very prominent galloping trainer was caught for using Oripavine {40 times more potent than opium} and received a $4000 fine . In harness racing its not that bad but I think that our last cheif steward had that galloping mentallity and we really need to reintroduce a minimum , harsh sentence .

Unfortunately its the same with our real life judicial system - the belief that bad people can be rehabilitated. We need to have tougher mandatory sentences as a deterrent.

There needs to be a very clear shift in penalties so that if you do the crime, you are no longer part of the industry/society.

[peteboss4]

Unfortunately its the same with our real life judicial system - the belief that bad people can be rehabilitated. We need to have tougher mandatory sentences as a deterrent.

There needs to be a very clear shift in penalties so that if you do the crime, you are no longer part of the industry/society.

We are harness people, either be it owners, trainers, drivers, breeders, we know what needs to be done so is their any room for us to have a say, and if so who will listen and DO something about it. It needs to be done while we have enough people still in harness racing. So it better happen this week!!!!!!!!!

[aussiebreno]

Agree with both murray and mightymo.

As a basic start for a positive at Wagga. Win pool =$30,000. Place pool = $15,000.
Take out 120% and payments that would have been made to bettors of the 2nd place (Win) and 4th place (place) total $28,000 + exotics bets + many other TABs and bookmakers.

Then you've got HRNSW / stewards wages and the numerous with them at hearings etc and it's a pretty costly figure. Yet a $2000 fine and a few months suspension seems to cut it whilst a bloke doing the best for his horse to win gets fined $200 for going 1 second too slow in the first half or whipping the horse the wrong way.

[murray green]

Yeah . I think the first thing to 'tighten' up is the appeals debarcle . I don't think we have had any period of time for years where we havn't had to compete against someone with a cloud hanging over their head . Those crooks just keep puting it off and they are allowed to . When it finally comes to pass , they have already organised a relative to get a licence and become the next front man . I'm sure HRNSW are really trying . Their probably just as frustrated with the process .

[Danno]

for all the differences of opinion on what consitutes a cheat, at least we are seeing a clear concensus on what peolple are thinking about the appropriateness of the penalties being handed out in recent times.

And in my humble opinion, not only are the penalties too cheap, so is the process for handing over an entire stable to one of your mates and/or relatives.

The Gleesons had this down pat years ago and it only served as a not so cute lesson to those that followed.

people are leaving this game week after week, often disillusioned about who is getting "rewarded" and who is getting punished.

Unfortunately many of these people believe that the 90% + honest folks in this game are those that are getting punished for the wrongs of the grubs.

[Greg Hando]

So a bloke who wins a $3000 race at Tamworth, Junee etc ends up with what? A $50 petrol voucher, a hotdog and a can of coke? You'll have blokes pulling them up to get 2nd prize-money and no jump in class!!!

And if, although you didn't say it, you mean return the cost if a swab is clear, well I believe prizemoney is already held until swabs are clear.

The winner's cheque i mean out the percentage for first that you are paid.And no i didn't mean reimburse the cost of the swab.And yes paying out of prize money is held until swab clears. Not sure what the breakdown is now but if a swab is $250 you still end up with approx $1700 for a win and about $400 odd for second .Yeah you would pull em up to run second .

[aussiebreno]

The winner's cheque i mean out the percentage for first that you are paid.And no i didn't mean reimburse the cost of the swab.And yes paying out of prize money is held until swab clears. Not sure what the breakdown is now but if a swab is $250 you still end up with approx $1700 for a win and about $400 odd for second .Yeah you would pull em up to run second .
It was an exageration about rather running 2nd.
Making a winner pay for their own swab is ridiculous. I thought I misunderstood what you meant because it is so ridiculous.

If prize-money cuts have to happen (although I'd still rather other means) across the board and $4500 race turn into $4200 eg then so be it (where all runners bare the cost), but giving with one hand and taking straight back with the other isn't on.
Pay to be proven innocent and then don't get your fee compensated....how would you feel if you were an innocent party and someone tries to sue you..you hire lawyer who proves said innocence at court...judge finds you innocent but all the while you're left with lawyers bill and no re-imbursement despite no wrongdoing?

[broncobrad]

It was an exageration about rather running 2nd.
Making a winner pay for their own swab is ridiculous. I thought I misunderstood what you meant because it is so ridiculous.

If prize-money cuts have to happen (although I'd still rather other means) across the board and $4500 race turn into $4200 eg then so be it (where all runners bare the cost), but giving with one hand and taking straight back with the other isn't on.
Pay to be proven innocent and then don't get your fee compensated....how would you feel if you were an innocent party and someone tries to sue you..you hire lawyer who proves said innocence at court...judge finds you innocent but all the while you're left with lawyers bill and no re-imbursement despite no wrongdoing?

Hi Brendan, like Greg I think every winner should be swabbed too. Its the real world though and it needs to be funded. Sent an email to Sam the Man yesterday requesting information about the breakdown costs of metrop/country swabbing procedures and am awaiting reply. Also noted in the Annual Report (about p83) that in 2010 $368,990 was spent on swabbing whilst in 2011 $473,932 was spent. Thats a decent jump right there. My thoughts are if all winners are swabbed that should put rumours to bed. If people want to throw innuendo around even after the swabs come back negative it can be dealt with in the civil courts independent of HRNSW. My point is that a substantial financial outlay in waterproofing swabbing procedures means that HRNSW have met their liability in providing an even playing field within their powers. If trainers continue to flout the rules they do it at their own peril. This includes out of competition testing (great article Peteboss).

Techniques for identifying undetectable substances continues to improve. Cheats are a part of life, they will always be. Accepting them in the sport tho, is akin to accepting defeat.

Great thread, swabbing, penalties that fit the crime, appeals process review etc but the hottest topic really was Brendans aside of $50 petrol voucher, the can of coke and the hotdog...should be mandatory really. Cheers

[aussiebreno]

Hi Brendan, like Greg I think every winner should be swabbed too. Its the real world though and it needs to be funded. Sent an email to Sam the Man yesterday requesting information about the breakdown costs of metrop/country swabbing procedures and am awaiting reply. Also noted in the Annual Report (about p83) that in 2010 $368,990 was spent on swabbing whilst in 2011 $473,932 was spent. Thats a decent jump right there. My thoughts are if all winners are swabbed that should put rumours to bed. If people want to throw innuendo around even after the swabs come back negative it can be dealt with in the civil courts independent of HRNSW. My point is that a substantial financial outlay in waterproofing swabbing procedures means that HRNSW have met their liability in providing an even playing field within their powers. If trainers continue to flout the rules they do it at their own peril. This includes out of competition testing (great article Peteboss).

Techniques for identifying undetectable substances continues to improve. Cheats are a part of life, they will always be. Accepting them in the sport tho, is akin to accepting defeat.

Great thread, swabbing, penalties that fit the crime, appeals process review etc but the hottest topic really was Brendans aside of $50 petrol voucher, the can of coke and the hotdog...should be mandatory really. Cheers
All for swabbing - but I don't think making the winner fund their own swab is the way to go. Funding from other areas should be available...even if as a whole prize-money takes a cut (not just the winner cheque). A couple of months ago HRNSW put forward a figure of an extra $1mill p.a to test all winners. That would work out to be each race about a $250 cut in prize-money; or as HRNSW pointed out prize-money increase not taking place. So if they were planning on prize-money increases they have the money - what no-one has seen they can't miss!

Lol @ the hottest topic part!

[broncobrad]

Thanks for that Brendan. I did see that $250 figure bandied earlier somewhere in the thread but was not aware of its validity.

[aussiebreno]

Thanks for that Brendan. I did see that $250 figure bandied earlier somewhere in the thread but was not aware of its validity.

Yeah, knowing Greg's past posts he is probably pretty spot on with that, and using a few rough figures I calculated $250-$300.

[Greg Hando]

Take it off the total race prize money then i think it still need's to be done .