Epo positive

[William]

I'm not sure if the Moderators will allow subjects of this nature but HRNSW are reporting a positive swab for EPO from an as yet unnamed trainer, with no further comment at this stage.

[peteboss4]

I'm not sure if the Moderators will allow subjects of this nature but HRNSW are reporting a positive swab for EPO from an as yet unnamed trainer, with no further comment at this stage.

You are only saying what is written, although does say irregularity, so should not be a problem with moderators.

[Stonie]

Rather interesting that they dont name the Trainer in question......

Everyone else with a postitive or irregularity gets named.
Whats any different here???????

[aussiebreno]

I'm not sure if the Moderators will allow subjects of this nature but HRNSW are reporting a positive swab for EPO from an as yet unnamed trainer, with no further comment at this stage.
Bad news indeed William.


Rather interesting that they dont name the Trainer in question......

Everyone else with a postitive or irregularity gets named.
Whats any different here???????
Only the first test has tested positive. Second test yet to be done and normal procedure is not to declare anything to after the second test. If anything they've gone the early crow.

[The Rainmaker]

If early hearsay is correct some here may be shocked by the trainer in question, others maybe not so shocked.

It will be interesting to see how long it takes for HRNSW to come forward with the results of the second testing procedure, might be a little while.

[murray green]

[QUOTE=aussiebreno;16072]Bad news indeed William.


What does anybody expect in this game . Cheats , cheats and more cheats . IMO 95% or so of occupants would have been happy to be part of the latest betting scandal . They just weren't asked . They certainly would put anything down their horses throats if they thought that they would get away with it . Why arn't the police involved when these guys get caught . A recent methamphetamine positive should be dealt with and be handed over to police . No ones name will surprise me .

[peteboss4]

[QUOTE=aussiebreno;16072]Bad news indeed William.


What does anybody expect in this game . Cheats , cheats and more cheats . IMO 95% or so of occupants would have been happy to be part of the latest betting scandal . They just weren't asked . They certainly would put anything down their horses throats if they thought that they would get away with it . Why arn't the police involved when these guys get caught . A recent methamphetamine positive should be dealt with and be handed over to police . No ones name will surprise me .

Have to agree with you Murray but its true, I know 10 people were asked if they would have cheated if they were to get away with it & they all said YES. This game will never be any different. Someone will always be one step ahead of the regulators. If this game was honest then we wouldn't have these ongoing problems. Would we now?

[Old Frank]

Bad news indeed William.

Only the first test has tested positive. Second test yet to be done and normal procedure is not to declare anything to after the second test. If anything they've gone the early crow.



I know that history will show that 99% of the time, the 2nd test will come back positive like the 1st but surely from a professionalism perspective, as well as the negative PR aspects why would you release any statement until the 'b' sample is tested and in actual fact shown to be positive?

The rumour mongers start beating the drums immediately, yet there is still the chance (sure, may be remote chance) that the sample comes back negative and yet Harness Racing has kicked itself in the ass!

Now either way HRNSW is up shit creek, issue press release and get initial bad PR to what may not amount to anything, or wait for the 'b' sample and it's positive still equals bad perception/press.

[aussiebreno]

I think you guys may be confusing a harness racing issue with a social issue.
Look at the NZ couple who got $17 million (or whatever it was) in their bank account and done a runner. Look at cricketers appealing, but then not even using the DRS system, or batsman standing their ground when clearly out. I've never seen a footballer pull themself up for a push in the back (AFL) or high tackle (NRL). If a checkout chick gave you an extra $20 change some would also walk away with it - or the old glue a $2 coin to the ground trick works because people will always try and get something for nothing. How many students attempt to cheat on exams or would if they could and get away with it? Human nature, not confined to harness racing.
Maybe harness racing tempts more of these characters or allows more oppurtunities for these characteristics to come out in people but don't give harness racing a bad name for a social issue.

[aussiebreno]

I know that history will show that 99% of the time, the 2nd test will come back positive like the 1st but surely from a professionalism perspective, as well as the negative PR aspects why would you release any statement until the 'b' sample is tested and in actual fact shown to be positive?

The rumour mongers start beating the drums immediately, yet there is still the chance (sure, may be remote chance) that the sample comes back negative and yet Harness Racing has kicked itself in the ass!

Now either way HRNSW is up shit creek, issue press release and get initial bad PR to what may not amount to anything, or wait for the 'b' sample and it's positive still equals bad perception/press.
Yep, it's weird they've released it. I see no harm in waiting for the B sample, despite HRNSW citing length of time, when that is the normal procedure.

[mango]

One would think HRNSW would of kept this quiet untill the B sample come back, if it come back positive by all means charge the people involved but if it come's back negative no one needs to know and HRNSW doesn't get dragged through the mud more than it already is.

[tiny]

With recent history in mind it doesn't Realy matter what happins with the b sample there is still a prima facie case they could move right now and issue charges.

What was the end result of the meth positive? I had forgotten all about it.

[murray green]

The meth positive has been put off to another date . HRNSW is dammed if they do and dammed if they don't . I'm sure they are trying very hard to gain confidence from the industry by showing us they are are on the job . IMO any information is better than none at all . Sam pulled the right reign by using Hong Kong JC . Great idea

[tiny]

Thanks I was looking forward to hearing the defense for the meth. Perhaps it touched the toilet at the the nightclub.

[murray green]

Yeah Tiny . Knowing these guys they'll come up with some new excuse . Unfortunately the effects of EPO to a horses performance can last for 12 weeks after it becomes non detectable . HRNSW should stand the trainers stable down untill the second test results come through . No one should have to race against any horse that returns a positive . Especially to a drug that has such a lasting effect .

[candykisses]

If early hearsay is correct some here may be shocked by the trainer in question, others maybe not so shocked.

It will be interesting to see how long it takes for HRNSW to come forward with the results of the second testing procedure, might be a little while.

Hi Eric

Can You Give Us A Clue LOL

Cassie

[peteboss4]

Yeah Tiny . Knowing these guys they'll come up with some new excuse . Unfortunately the effects of EPO to a horses performance can last for 12 weeks after it becomes non detectable . HRNSW should stand the trainers stable down untill the second test results come through . No one should have to race against any horse that returns a positive . Especially to a drug that has such a lasting effect .

It stinks dosn't it. This is where HRNSW have to do something swiftly to get rid of them . How would any trainer feel if the grub that gave his horse epo wins, when they find out who it is. Same as the grubs still winning with the drug/betting scandel. Worst thing is epo can KILL so the epo man dosn't give a rats about his horses & should be charged with cruelty.

[broncobrad]

The meth positive has been put off to another date . HRNSW is dammed if they do and dammed if they don't . I'm sure they are trying very hard to gain confidence from the industry by showing us they are are on the job . IMO any information is better than none at all . Sam pulled the right reign by using Hong Kong JC . Great idea

Murray, I go along with you "damned if they do, damned if they don't. In this day and age, full and timely disclosure of all issues positive and negative, is the only way to go. To me, that brings a level of professionalism that this sport needs. Warts and all information says you are facing up to the issues within the industry and are prepared to deal with it openly, honestly and transparently within the legal confines of the situation at hand. It gives me some confidence in our regulators of the game in NSW, that as I said in another thread, this is not an obstacle but an opportunity to bring a greater confidence to the sport. It is time to draw a line in the sand with the outlaws of industry and take control without fear or favour.

[peteboss4]

Hi Eric

Can You Give Us A Clue LOL

Cassie

Wont be long Cassie, its on fire.Keep your ear to the ground. LOL

[Airds]

It has been released.... And the trainers name
Rhymes with.....[EDITED].....!!

[roger ramjet]

People guessing who it is are well off the mark. The talk today is totally wrong. The real horse's name [EDITED]

[Amiacar]

Does his son now train?

[roger ramjet]

No mate. This bloke is [EDITED]

[admin]

No speculation or innuendo unless it comes with a press release from HRNSW. Clues included. Those that do within this thread will be banned from now on.

[Greg Hando]

Murray, I go along with you "damned if they do, damned if they don't. In this day and age, full and timely disclosure of all issues positive and negative, is the only way to go. To me, that brings a level of professionalism that this sport needs. Warts and all information says you are facing up to the issues within the industry and are prepared to deal with it openly, honestly and transparently within the legal confines of the situation at hand. It gives me some confidence in our regulators of the game in NSW, that as I said in another thread, this is not an obstacle but an opportunity to bring a greater confidence to the sport. It is time to draw a line in the sand with the outlaws of industry and take control without fear or favour.

I;m with you Murray and Brad better to know than not to i think with some NRNSW can do no right .

[mango]

Hi Greg

I'd prefer to hear about it when both sample's are tested and are positive and the reason being the rumour mill hit's overdrive and innocent trainers name's will be mentioned which i find not warranted.

[peteboss4]

Out of Competition Testing
By Joe Gorajec
From The Blood Horse, October 13, 2007
http://www.bloodhorse.com (http://www.bloodhorse.com/)

If a drug existed that enhanced performance yet was undetectable by traditional testing methods would it pose a clear and present danger to the integrity of our sport?
Would some trainers succumb to the lure of success and easy money knowing they could cheat with impunity?
The answers seem obvious.
The drug does exist. It is Epogen. Epogen is also known, as EPO. EPO and its closely related cousins are blood doping agents. EPO is manufactured for the purpose of increasing red blood cell production. It is used in cancer patients undergoing chemotherapy and those suffering from severe anemia. EPO saves lives. Human lives.
Administered to a horse, EPO is reported to enhance performance by producing additional red blood cells and thereby increasing the animal's ability to transport oxygen.
After years of costly research, the University of Pennsylvania announced in August 2006
its discovery of a detection method for EPO in horses. This widely hailed breakthrough has finally provided the industry with a tool to detect and punish blood dopers. There are, however, obstacles to overcome. While the test can confirm EPO for approximately 72 hours after administration, the performance enhancing effects of EPO can last for weeks. As a consequence, the test is not effective in the usual post race sample testing environment.

However, there is a solution. Detecting EPO is possible by the utilization of out of competition testing. Out of competition testing is a fact of life for all major league and Olympic athletes. These athletes are subject to testing at anytime, anywhere, without notice. The uncertain nature of the time and date of securing blood samples promises to make detection (that was not possible in the past) possible and also to serve as an effective deterrent. Racing must act now to institute the out of competition model.
How widespread is blood doping in horse racing?

EPO is the drug that has ruined the sport of cycling, trashed the Tour de France. Cyclists inject EPO in their bodies, knowing they are subject to out of competition testing. How naive are we to believe that some trainers are not doing the same thing to animals they know are not subject to out of competition testing? We all lament the unexplained phenomenon of the "super trainer" or when meteoric rise in performance belies precedence and established norms. We live in an era where the terms "super trainer" and "juice" have become a part of every horseplayer's vernacular. FPO or its blood doping relatives in the hands a few "ethically challenged" horsemen can make a mockery of any track's racing program.

There is good news. Some racing commissions have stepped forward and have initiated active out of competition testing programs. Ontario, California, and Delaware have led the way. Indiana and Michigan have followed. Kentucky has performed Unlimited testing of Kentucky Derby Presented by Yum! Brands (gr. 1) starters. New Jersey will likely begin its out of competition testing program later this month on the Breeders' Cup World Championship participants. While this is an admirable beginning, so much more remains to be done.

The bad news is that there appears to be no sense of industry urgency to combat blood doping. Mat should give rise to a call for action is met with a response that can be best described as underwhelming. Industry stakeholders certainly favor the integrity of racing in the abstract. Implementing the necessary safeguards is another matter. Racing has to change. We all know that "racing" and "change" are typically not on friendly terms. In reality, they're practically strangers.

Would some track owners prefer not to endure the inevitable publicity of a successful trainer charged with blood doping? Would some horsemen prefer to not be inconvenienced by the thought of testing anytime, anywhere, without notice? Are some racing commissions paralyzed by institutional inertia?

As we look forward to funding research to develop methods of detecting new illicit drugs, let's take a backward glance to see what we have left on the table.

We have some unfinished business. Let's get to work.

Joe Gorajec is the executive director of the Indiana Horse Racing Commission.
Copyright Blood-Horse Publications. Reprinted with permission of copyright owner.

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Intresting reading

[p plater]

Why shouldn't the result be announced, no name ok probably not desired but it does let everyone know that a test exists and if this helps stamp it out, that's great.
It seems NSW harness is the only racing body brave enough to go public......go Sam

[candykisses]

Do people now understand why the average Joe in the game that have one or two in work are disillusioned, and suspicious .

Cassie

[Greg Hando]

Yep good reading Pete

[steve]

from the western area i think ?

[clumsy]

Trainer Mr Shannon Wonson – EPO positive swab
Harness Racing New South Wales (HRNSW) has received a report from the Hong Kong Jockey Club Racing Laboratory (HKJC) that EPO has been detected in a pre race blood sample taken from COURAGEOUS KIWI NZ prior to it competing and finishing unplaced in Race 6, the Bohemia Crystal Free for All (2300m) at Menangle on Saturday 26 November 2011.
*
The presence of EPO in the blood sample has been confirmed by the HFL Sport Science Laboratory in England.
*
This sample was initially screened at the Australian Racing Forensic Laboratory (ARFL) which detected a discrepancy and forwarded the sample to HKJC Laboratory for further analytical testing.
*
Acting under the provision of Australian Harness Racing Rule (AHRR) 183, HRNSW has suspended Mr Shannon Wonson trainer’s licence for the following reasons:
*
(a) The extremely serious nature of the prohibited substance;
(b) The absolute liability of a trainer for the presence of a prohibited substance;
(c) The existence of a prima facie case against him based on the certificates from HKJC and HFL;
(d) HRNSW’s protective objectives in the course of its core function to control supervise and regulate harness racing in this state.
*
Also under the provisions of AHRR 183A COURAGEOUS KIWI NZ will not be permitted to race until the inquiry is concluded.
*
An inquiry into this matter has been scheduled for Monday 16 April 2012 commencing at 10am at the offices of HRNSW.

[broncobrad]

The meth positive has been put off to another date . HRNSW is dammed if they do and dammed if they don't . I'm sure they are trying very hard to gain confidence from the industry by showing us they are are on the job . IMO any information is better than none at all . Sam pulled the right reign by using Hong Kong JC . Great idea

Referred back to Murrays comment of 24/1 because I don't think it rings quite true now. HRNSW WERE damned if they did or did not, but they have been very careful with this inquiry. If it is taking time for these issues to be dealt with and HRNSW are confronting and dealing with them with successful prosecutions (for want of a better word), to me it demonstrates a willingness to bring real change to the industry for the long term and for all participants. The reasons listed by HRNSW in dealing with the EPO charges is extremely strong terminology and is sending a big message that a line is being drawn. If you want confidence in the sport, the regime in charge of integrity issues is giving us value for money thus far. I think they were damned if they didn't. Still happy to be patient.

[p plater]

Referred back to Murrays comment of 24/1 because I don't think it rings quite true now. HRNSW WERE damned if they did or did not, but they have been very careful with this inquiry. If it is taking time for these issues to be dealt with and HRNSW are confronting and dealing with them with successful prosecutions (for want of a better word), to me it demonstrates a willingness to bring real change to the industry for the long term and for all participants. The reasons listed by HRNSW in dealing with the EPO charges is extremely strong terminology and is sending a big message that a line is being drawn. If you want confidence in the sport, the regime in charge of integrity issues is giving us value for money thus far. I think they were damned if they didn't. Still happy to be patient.

Count me in.....I totally agree, if things go to plan NSW will be the most feared State to race in for Cheats

[David Summers]

If things go to plan NSW will be the most feared State to race in for Cheats

Good comment p plater. Amen to that.

[hillbillydeluxe]

Where there is money there is corruption, there needs to be an independant board to govern Harness Racing, an integrity squad. I got out of the game in the 90's after watching horses sit 3 wide the journey and running time in winning, you guessed it, assisted. catch all the cheats as I want to enter the game that I missed. penalties need to be harsh. a positive doesn't stop the guilty from punting either which makes for a good holiday if caught.

[Thevoiceofreason]

Where there is money there is corruption, there needs to be an independant board to govern Harness Racing, an integrity squad. I got out of the game in the 90's after watching horses sit 3 wide the journey and running time in winning, you guessed it, assisted. catch all the cheats as I want to enter the game that I missed. penalties need to be harsh. a positive doesn't stop the guilty from punting either which makes for a good holiday if caught.

They had a separate board called the GHRRA to deal with integrity matters in both Harness and Greyhounds and no one wanted them, personally I think they did a much better job than they are credited with in many ways.

Having said that the board and executive of HRNSW have done a great job in very difficult circumstances. In the past 12 months they have uncovered widespread corruption and are leaving no stone unturned in their efforts to deal with it correctly, despite most wanting blood in the first weeks of the investigation.

Broncobrad put it best we need to be patient and let justice take its course no matter how slow it seems, in the end we want them caught and punished .... not winning at appeal on a loophole.

To Sam and the boys keep up the excellent work.

[broncobrad]

Can anybody shed any light as to why Shane Wonsons mum would take court action to attempt to NOT have the B sample tested?

Were there concerns about the B sample, the laboratory concerned or its professional standing in the world, testing techniques?

Or is the story a beat up? Find it a bit bewildering. Don't even know if we can comment on this if the matter is in the courts already?

[broncobrad]

Can only assume my last comment was removed because I didn't show the source. Harnesslink website posted 7.47am 18/3/12.

http://www.harnesslink.com/www/Article.cgi?ID=96370 As I said, am bewildered why Shannon Wonsons mum attempted to take legal action to stop the testing of the

B sample. Could anyone shed any light on what they hoped that would achieve?

[Triple V]

I don't know why that was removed Brad.
It was no great secret that action had been lauched and it was apparently done weeks ago, prior to the result from England (?). The same was also freely reported by Chris Roots in the Daily Telegraph. Certainly not something that wasn't already well & truly in the public arena.

[broncobrad]

Still Triple, why would you try to stop the B sample being tested. Its way above me.

[teecee]

[QUOTE=broncobrad;19266]Can only assume my last comment was removed because I didn't show the source. Harnesslink website posted 7.47am

http://www.harnesslink.com/www/Article.cgi?ID=96370
Correct...thanks for that.

[broncobrad]

[QUOTE=broncobrad;19266]Can only assume my last comment was removed because I didn't show the source. Harnesslink website posted 7.47am

http://www.harnesslink.com/www/Article.cgi?ID=96370
Correct...thanks for that.

Teecee, I should have known it was you. You would think I would have learnt by now.

Cheers

[Triple V]

Still Triple, why would you try to stop the B sample being tested. Its way above me.

[VVV] No idea. I don't know very much about the current state of equine EPO testing.
Followed it closely for a fair while when they were first developing it in Canada but I suspect things have moved on a very long way since then.
Whatever the line of thinking, everyone is of course entitled to use any & all legal means at their disposal to defend themselves against charges made in any arena...be it criminal, civil or public.

[Thevoiceofreason]

Still Triple, why would you try to stop the B sample being tested. Its way above me.

Brad

The way the rules are worded I think provides the answer, the first finding provides is only prima facie evidence where as the second test provides conclusive evidence, so if you are successful in not having the second test carried out there is no conclusive evidence. With a case involving EPO this is a significant difference.

There is a current case in Victoria( not harness) where one lab has found a substance no other lab has the technology to find it and therefore confirm it, with no confirmation in that case there are significant doubts it will proceed.

191. (1) A certificate from a person or drug testing laboratory approved by the Controlling Body which certifies the presence of a prohibited substance in or on a horse at, or approximately at, a particular time, or in blood, urine, saliva, or other matter or sample or specimen tested, or that a prohibited substance had at some time been administered to a horse is prima facie evidence of the matters certified.

(2) If another person or drug testing laboratory approved by the controlling body analyses a portion of the sample or specimen referred to in sub rule (1) and certifies the presence of a prohibited substance in the sample or specimen that certification together with the certification referred to in sub rule (1) is conclusive evidence of the presence of a prohibited substance.

I hope this helps

[broncobrad]

Thanks Bill, it certainly does help. Like Triple said the defendants are certainly entitled to take what ever legal avenue to protect their own interests and they sought to do so. I know NOTHING about the law, but if the defendants can create enough doubt about the first samples validity by what ever means possible and could have excluded the B sample as a measuring stick, it certainly would have placed them at a distinct advantage. To have the second sample confirmed, places their case in a very weak position now.

In my post which was removed (but has now re-appeared this afternoon after work), I touched on reasons that I thought may have been valid points that could be argued in a court of law, as to not accepting the findings of the B sample from another independant laboratory. The one thing I did not say was, if the B sample was not legally admissable for what ever reason their legal defence team argued, it would have left HRNSW looking pretty amateurish and not much ammunition.

But to their credit they have been extremely professional in their actions to present as water-tight as possible, a case that will be very hard to toss out.

Takes balls, maybe HRNSW are starting to grow some. (Apologies to the females within the organisation).

HRNSW integrity mob have stated how seriously they view this situation, in the issuing and wording of the charges.. I think the Sherriff has ridden into town...

[Thevoiceofreason]

Thanks Bill, it certainly does help. Like Triple said the defendants are certainly entitled to take what ever legal avenue to protect their own interests and they sought to do so. I know NOTHING about the law, but if the defendants can create enough doubt about the first samples validity by what ever means possible and could have excluded the B sample as a measuring stick, it certainly would have placed them at a distinct advantage. To have the second sample confirmed, places their case in a very weak position now.

In my post which was removed (but has now re-appeared this afternoon after work), I touched on reasons that I thought may have been valid points that could be argued in a court of law, as to not accepting the findings of the B sample from another independant laboratory. The one thing I did not say was, if the B sample was not legally admissable for what ever reason their legal defence team argued, it would have left HRNSW looking pretty amateurish and not much ammunition.

But to their credit they have been extremely professional in their actions to present as water-tight as possible, a case that will be very hard to toss out.

Takes balls, maybe HRNSW are starting to grow some. (Apologies to the females within the organisation).

HRNSW integrity mob have stated how seriously they view this situation, in the issuing and wording of the charges.. I think the Sherriff has ridden into town...

In all honesty both HRNSW and the GHRRA before them have been doing that for a long time, really tackling integrity issues head on.

People make remarks about lost appeals ect but in the end you have to remember that only a very small number of the stewards findings go to appeal so that even if 50% of these are altered in some way in real terms there are so many findings that actually stand unchanged.

HRNSW stewards for example gave Geoff Small 2 years for a positive swab the biggest penalty ever imposed on him when Changeover won the Len Smith, he appealed, found a deficiency in the wording of the rule, well that is how one judge found it in NSW, other states had different findings over a similar drug, regardless the rule wording was then changed, so a win for all in some way because the same defense can now not be run again.

[Triple V]

POINT OF ORDER MR. SPEAKER!!!!!

Geeze VOR...mate, now and again you really know how to push the right button.

I'm going to have to take issue with part of the above...in particular the emboldened bit in the following...

QUOTE [In all honesty both HRNSW and the GHRRA before them have been doing that for a long time, really tackling integrity issues head on.] END QUOTE

Now VOR, if the thankfully now defunct GHRRA were indeed as keen on tackling Integrity issues & upholding same as you've suggest there, casual observers such as myself are left ponder why, upon its demise, did it see fit to not only point blank refuse to/completely fail to pass on to the incoming hierarchy of HRNSW the exact state of play re: the exact amount/s of fines/monies outstanding, in each case noting the person/s responsible and including all agreements/arrangements they'd made with said persons relating to time payment of fines etc. which had been made under their (the GHRRA's) watch...but go on to call in IT Troops and delete virtually all if not all the electronic records of same? Call it an unfortunate procedural oversight if you will, call me a dreadful cynic if you must...but whatever way anyone cares to look at it, they don't appear much like the actions of an organization with Integrity at the very core of their being.

[Thevoiceofreason]

POINT OF ORDER MR. SPEAKER!!!!!

Geeze VOR...mate, now and again you really know how to push the right button.

I'm going to have to take issue with part of the above...in particular the emboldened bit in the following...

QUOTE [In all honesty both HRNSW and the GHRRA before them have been doing that for a long time, really tackling integrity issues head on.] END QUOTE

Now VOR, if the thankfully now defunct GHRRA were indeed as keen on tackling Integrity issues & upholding same as you've suggest there, casual observers such as myself are left ponder why, upon its demise, did it see fit to not only point blank refuse to/completely fail to pass on to the incoming heirachy of HRNSW the exact state of play re: the exact amount/s of fines/monies outstanding, in each case noting the person/s responsible and including all agreements/arrangements they'd made with said persons relating to time payment of fines etc. which had been made under their (the GHRRA's) watch...but go on to call in IT Troops and delete virtually all if not all the electronic records of same? Call it an unfortunate procedural oversight if you will, call me a dreadful cynic if you must...but whatever way anyone cares to look at it, they don't appear much like the actions of an organisation with Intergity at the very core of their being.

Now triple V lets not call a spade a shovel.

If as you suggest what happened did if fact happen and I am not as fully convinced as you that it did.

One thing John Coughlan did was chase a dollar there were many added to the forfiet list in his time for unpaid fines and that list an the amount were very public knowledge, I have also been told of some people who were on the forfeit list for unpaid fines imposed under GHRRA control who had to settle the amounts before being licenced by HRNSW.so clearly some information got through,

However having said that you and I both know that the Government of the time quickly put in its own people to oversea the changeover to HRNSW the CEO of the GHRRA walked out the door in February 2009 the changeover happened on July 1 2009, so any decision to muddy the agreements/ arrangement or any information were made by a much higher body than the GHRRA officials or its board. That as you know that is a horse of an entirely different color.

We agree on many things but I have come to realise that the performance of the GHRRA as a regulatory body is not one of them, I admit they had as all police forces do their issues but I continue to think not as badly of them as some. Having said that I continue to wrap the current structure and think they are doing a sterling job, including if not limited to cleaning up the image of the sport by perusing the multiple personalities that purport to be different people on this forum, it is brilliant to see such a new approach.

[Triple V]

You know that's very close to a non-denial...denial. :p
The time line mentioned makes sense VOR, no doubt there either. The Fox has been flushed from the bushes.
I'm still somewhat perplexed however.
If that was the case (as in the time line) ..and I've no reason to doubt you...it would seem to suggest not only had there been initial OLGR involvement in the GHRRA's creation but moreso that their guiding hand fell even heavier upon its subsequent winding up? This of course being an organisation that was at the time, just as its successor has been, very widely & loudly touted as being Independent of Government. Surely not? How could this be? Perish the thought. Surely as an Independent entity...it would've wound itself up? :p
It's all getting rather unpleasant huh?
By way of henceforth showing good form and not drawing any unreasonable conclusions nor parallels with days gone by and now... let us once again choose not to make too much of a fuss over OLGR's rather shameless initial vetting of all the current Board applications prior to them being handed to the current Minister.
I can hear the exchange now...
Minister:"Ah yes, this ---- chap...a good cut of a fellow, he looks to be a very suitable candidate"
OLGR: "A courageous decision indeed Minister, a courageous decision indeed".

As we know...for Harness Racing here in NSW, it is Independent of Government all the way......(please send all Sydney Habour Bridge purchase inquiries via PM)

In closing, you may or may not have noticed that OLGR have apparently only recently re-named themselves ILGA...with the 'I' standing for...wait for it...hold onto your sides now...that's right, 'Independent'.bahahahahahaha. http://www.ilga.nsw.gov.au/
Honestly. These guys should be writing material for Jerry Seinfeld.
This is of course not to be confused with http://ilga.org/, a website offering a completely different viewpoint upon life's rich tapestry. :rolleyes:

[Thevoiceofreason]

Something like this I reckon

http://www.youtube.com/watch?NR=1&feature=endscreen&v=dIto5mwDLxo

[Triple V]

Inspired stuff that. Right down to the pin striped suit. ;)

[Itisi]

Something like this I reckon

http://www.youtube.com/watch?NR=1&feature=endscreen&v=dIto5mwDLxo
A classic.

[broncobrad]

The inquiry of Shane Wonson continues after he attended yesterdays hearing and tabled a submission (not made public) and left the hearing which continued in his absence. The matter has been adjourned until April 24. Must be due for an integrity update from our intrepid newshound Dale soon.

http://www.harnesslink.com/www/Article.cgi?ID=96989

DPO (darbepoetin alfa) is the synthetic form of EPO (erythropoietin). It stimulates the producion of red blood cells which in turn increase oxygen levels.