Should drivers be allowed to bet on horses.

[barney]

Seems to me a s we are getting more professinal that maybe thought shoud be given to banning registered drivers from punting like there counterparts Jockeys.
Yes i realise a lot are not pros but also quite a lot of bush jockeys arent as well but still cant be seen placing a bet.
is this one way to wipe out the corruption thats seems now days to be common place in sport.

I had a young driver argue with me how great betfair is can lay a horse to lose a race.

I know this seems radical but something has to be done or Harness will just fade away to nothing.

[2minuteman]

Passing a new law will not stop drivers betting anymore than the laws are stopping jockeys betting.

[little fish]

This is a no brainer for me if you want to be a driver you cant bet its that simple.

[Gtrain]

It should be compulsory they bet. Only in their races and on their own drive.

[broncobrad]

I reckon when connections advise of a change in driving tactics, they should also advise if they are going support the animal in the betting ring.

[hilly]

Passing a new law will not stop drivers betting anymore than the laws are stopping jockeys betting.

True it has not worked on the races so why would it work in harness racing

[The Form Student]

[QUOTE=Gtrain;17362]It should be compulsory they bet. Only in their races and on their own drive.[/QI agree

I agree, every driver should have to put say $50, on there horse, that way we will akk get a run for our money! You watch races change then!!!!!

[barney]

True it has not worked on the races so why would it work in harness racing

Maybe the only publicity we get is when something goes wrong, but the sport to general punter is known as Red hots Cheating chariots or Thiefs on wheels.The image has got to change.I know Gallops are also corrupt but nowhere as much publicity as Harness.

[barney]

Passing a new law will not stop drivers betting anymore than the laws are stopping jockeys betting.

Ask Robil about that also Shinn both suspended for long periods because of betting.

[Zyuganov Leis]

Seems to me a s we are getting more professinal that maybe thought shoud be given to banning registered drivers from punting like there counterparts Jockeys.

Yes i realise a lot are not pros but also quite a lot of bush jockeys arent as well but still cant be seen placing a bet. is this one way to wipe out the corruption thats seems now days to be common place in sport.

I had a young driver argue with me how great betfair is can lay a horse to lose a race.

I know this seems radical but something has to be done or Harness will just fade away to nothing.



From my understanding, drivers ARE NOT permitted to bet. Your young driver is an idiot for talking out loud.

As awful as it sounds, it doesn't matter if there was a rule against them betting, all drivers would (and do), and if you think jockeys don't, your dreaming. ALL jockeys bet and some in very large demoninations.

[geoffkel]

exactly I do not know one driver or jockey that does not bet!!!

[Zyuganov Leis]

I won't name him so I don't incriminate, but one former leading driver used to have this as his mantra, and I quote -

"I don't care if I don't drive the winner, as long as I back the winner..."

Absolutely true 100%.

[barney]

From my understanding, drivers ARE NOT permitted to bet. Your young driver is an idiot for talking out loud.

As awful as it sounds, it doesn't matter if there was a rule against them betting, all drivers would (and do), and if you think jockeys don't, your dreaming. ALL jockeys bet and some in very large demoninations.

And when they get caught they get outed Eg Robil and Shinn cant remember a harness driver being suspended.

[Itisi]

What about trainer/drivers is he betting as a driver or trainer

[broncobrad]

I am more than happy to see drivers and trainers backing their own horses as long as its not with Betfair.

Seriously, you know they are trying and if they get beat it is because the animal isn't good enough, or the driver is outpointed or beaten by circumstances or just plain bad luck. You can't say they weren't trying. They backed their horse because they are trying.

[barney]

Guys i realise this is not going to happen.My point though sport does have to take some drastic measure or as i said in original post will just wither and die.

Would hate to say how many joe punters have mentioned to me how come Smoken up is in the interdom this year when tested positive last year.My only answer is Justice has appealed the positive but to be stil going on after 12 months is a joke.

[teecee]

How long do Joe Punters expect that Smoken Up should not be allowed to race.
Preventing a horse from participating is only a penalty on the owners.
Without going into the issues of his positive swab, he has been tested any number of times since for no positive tests.
ast years issues are dealt with in NZ under NZ rules. NZ does not punish owners unnecessarily by banning horses from racing ad infinitum

As for the issue of drivers betting, I agree with Brad. Being able to back their drive gives an added incentive to try harder.
In NZ drivers are permitted to bet on horses only which they drive.
When questioned by stewards re their drive it is common for them to produce tickets showing they supported the horse on the tote. It's nearly the perfect defence.!!

[Zyuganov Leis]

What about trainer/drivers is he betting as a driver or trainer




He's a driver the minute he get's handed the reins in the mounting yard...

[Zyuganov Leis]

How long do Joe Punters expect that Smoken Up should not be allowed to race.
Preventing a horse from participating is only a penalty on the owners.
Without going into the issues of his positive swab, he has been tested any number of times since for no positive tests.
ast years issues are dealt with in NZ under NZ rules. NZ does not punish owners unnecessarily by banning horses from racing ad infinitum

As for the issue of drivers betting, I agree with Brad. Being able to back their drive gives an added incentive to try harder.
In NZ drivers are permitted to bet on horses only which they drive.
When questioned by stewards re their drive it is common for them to produce tickets showing they supported the horse on the tote. It's nearly the perfect defence.!!

So when a horse draws 10 at Menangle and can't win over the mile due to having to go back to far etc and in the opinion of the driver he/she will find it hard to win so he/she doesn't back it, does that mean he/she wasn't trying?

So he/she has to fundamentally waste his driving fee/money having a bet to justify that he/she was on the job when in all accounts he/she was trying to begin with, it's just the job of winning was extremely hard to do in the first place?

[Triple V]

Realistically, there's absout as much chance of stopping Drivers & Jockeys from having a bet as their is stopping the Hippies in Nimbin from growing Pot in the hills. As to whether or not they should be allowed to bet, it's kind of a moot point because those that want to do so...will ultimately find a way to do so, regardless. In one respect I would rather know that a Jockey or Driver had plonked his/her own hard earned down on their charge because you'd expect that they'd be giving it every chance and then some.

[Zyuganov Leis]

Realistically, there's absout as much chance of stopping Drivers & Jockeys from having a bet as their is stopping the Hippies in Nimbin from growing Pot in the hills. As to whether or not they should be allowed to bet, it's kind of a moot point because those that want to do so...will ultimately find a way to do so, regardless. In one respect I would rather know that a Jockey or Driver had plonked his/her own hard earned down on their charge because you'd expect that they'd be giving it every chance and then some.


Most of the time, and I do mean most of the time with both Jockeys and Drivers though, it ain't their hard earned - their 'TIPPING' and have a dumb punter or two in toe, hanging off them for crumbs.

Drivers and Jockeys, the last to spend their own!

[Triple V]

Years and years ago a former then small time TV/Radio personality (I think he has passed away now?) was, in a prior life to that, a Jockey Manager.
He used to crack me up because he'd run these 'Punter's Clubs' and he'd get hundreds & hundreds of dear old Grannies & recreational stay at home punters to throw in, I think it was $10 or $20 each or whatever it was, to make a bank.
Then I reckon he used to step into the early betting with their collective works and take a whack at a horse or horses that he knew couldn't win it, make a false fav. of one of them etc. then late in the piece he'd produce his own clip and take a genuine whack for himself & for his Jockey clients, the money going down on the horse they actually thought would score, with it so often having the happy coincidence of being one of the horses that one of his said clients was riding. Ain't life grand? :rolleyes:

[barney]

Most of the time, and I do mean most of the time with both Jockeys and Drivers though, it ain't their hard earned - their 'TIPPING' and have a dumb punter or two in toe, hanging off them for crumbs.

Drivers and Jockeys, the last to spend their own!
Tipping didnt do Chris Munce many favors.

[barney]

The main reason i opened this thread is to point out that Harness racing must do something to change its image, seems to me a lot on here dont think there is anything wrong with it.Believe me the normal punter at a pub or club when you mention harness shy away or use the expressions i put on an earlier thread.

[teecee]

So when a horse draws 10 at Menangle and can't win over the mile due to having to go back to far etc and in the opinion of the driver he/she will find it hard to win so he/she doesn't back it, does that mean he/she wasn't trying? NO..!!

So he/she has to fundamentally waste his driving fee/money having a bet to justify that he/she was on the job when in all accounts he/she was trying to begin with, it's just the job of winning was extremely hard to do in the first place?NO..!!!

[Triple V]

I'm not into the TB's however if you want a good read about Jockeys punting read I Just Want To Be A Jockey- the story of Arthur Lister.
It has been around a while now. Might even be out of print? Lister was a handy rider in NSW but when he went North in the late 60's/early 70's and hooked up with QLD trainer Mal Barnes, together they landed some absolutely massive plunges. Might be able to get it at the Horseman's Bookshop at Kensington...if that's still around/open?

[David Summers]

Jaimie , if anyone is interested , that book is available for purchase online here http://www.boolarongpress.com.au/content/bookstore/bookDetails.asp?bookid=86

You can also download the first chapter on that site and have a read to see if it is a book that you would like to buy.

[broncobrad]

Craig all I am saying is I would be filled with a bit more confidence if I knew a driver had backed his horse to win that race. Nothing more nothing less. If they don't back their horse I would have less confidence in that horse being able to win that race. It does not mean anything untoward is occurring. It just means the driver doesn't fancy its chances. Its up to the stewards to determine if that driver has given his horse every chance.

Its a moot point anyway, it ain't never gonna happen.

[M.John]

safe to say brad hewitt didnt have anything on screamin seamen ... dearyyyy me, shocker

[Greg Hando]

I reckon when connections advise of a change in driving tactics, they should also advise if they are going support the animal in the betting ring.

What if they don't bet ?

[Greg Hando]

Guys i realise this is not going to happen.My point though sport does have to take some drastic measure or as i said in original post will just wither and die.

Would hate to say how many joe punters have mentioned to me how come Smoken up is in the interdom this year when tested positive last year.My only answer is Justice has appealed the positive but to be stil going on after 12 months is a joke.


They must think the horse should get barred from racing altogether do they ?

[barney]

No but one who does follow sport a bit said hasnt been stood down at all and DID have a positive i know he has appealed and appealed and i think now of to the courts, same guy pointed out Raglan has a positive and enquiry pending but is going around to.

To put these worries to rest would have been quite easy really just announce that all runners would be pre race swabbed and post race swabbed and let the nation know about it..The last thing we want or need is another repeat of last year.

[Greg Hando]

I'm pretty sure a driver isn't allowed in the betting area until all his engagement's have been fulfilled on the night .
We set a horse up for a win she paid 200+ for the win on the tote and 10's with the bookies the driver did all the fast work prior to the race and when asked why he didn't have a bet on her or his family his reply was
"we didn't want to shorten your price on her " I was disappointed he didn't have some on. This is a driver you can trust it's a pity their aren't more out there like it .

[Greg Hando]

Yes but why do they think the horse should be penalised ? They didn't sting themselves .

[barney]

Yes but why do they think the horse should be penalised ? They didn't sting themselves .

The positve Luke has got he is still training but horse is stood down answer your question.

[Itisi]

safe to say brad hewitt didnt have anything on screamin seamen ... dearyyyy me, shocker
The stable mate winner did shorten on the tote. Terrible drive on favorite.

[tiny]

After the Raglin positive any horse that is stood down after a positive should be cleared to race once it has a clear test. I always thought the stand down thing was to make shore the trainer turns up to the enquiry.

[Itisi]

I'm pretty sure a driver isn't allowed in the betting area until all his engagement's have been fulfilled on the night .
We set a horse up for a win she paid 200+ for the win on the tote and 10's with the bookies the driver did all the fast work prior to the race and when asked why he didn't have a bet on her or his family his reply was
"we didn't want to shorten your price on her " I was disappointed he didn't have some on. This is a driver you can trust it's a pity their aren't more out there like it .You must be only small punters yourselves like .50 each way if it payed 200+ on tote

[Mark Croatto]

safe to say brad hewitt didnt have anything on screamin seamen ... dearyyyy me, shocker

Geeze, you could make the effort to actually get your facts right. Blake Hewitt drove that horse, not Brad!!!!!!

Regards

[broncobrad]

safe to say brad hewitt didnt have anything on screamin seamen ... dearyyyy me, shocker

G'day Michael, Haven't seen a race tonight, only just got home from work, so will have a look tomorrow.

Just watched Major Post win paying over $5.00...how was he such a good price?

[Greg Hando]

I had money on the bookmaker's and their was only $1 each way put on the tote and the bloke who had the $1 had it on because his cousin is my daughter in law and she was in the horse with us . And no i am not a big punter i can stop a freight train.

[broncobrad]

safe to say brad hewitt didnt have anything on screamin seamen ... dearyyyy me, shocker

Realise you meant Blake Hewitt. He could have jumped on the back of Rollon Gidget down the back, but elected to stay in, fair enough because Circumstantial was travelling strong and was going to bring him into the race nicely. They go 2 more yards and Circumstantial spits the bit, gonesky. Blake had no option but get dragged back and we saw the result go to the stablemate. I think you are marking hard if you think its suss.

Because the same thing happened to Anthony Butt on Raglan, when he takes the sit behind the right horse to trail (Mr Feelgood). Was there anyone in Australia that night who thought MFG would puncture the way he did. Mate, thats racing. Heres the thing that gives me the irrates though...Stewards ping Lauren for 28 days for allegedly not taking a run that (apparently) presents itself. If they are going to be consistent, then Blakes drive should be probed further for not getting out wide earlier when Rollon Gidget is beginning to weaken. It would have just been a dumb, dumb move and the stewards would have got into him for incompentancy. Damned if you do, damned if you don't.

Oh and by the way, yeah, safe to say he didn't have anything in Screamin Seamen. God I love that horses name, makes me want to put on a raincoat.

[doncht]

My answer to this is still a no. It would just complicate things I think. https://imagicon.info/cat/10-3/smile4.png

[doncht]

No no and no. If this is made, there will always be fixed matches. https://imagicon.info/cat/10-3/smile4.png

[strong persuader]

Of course drivers should be allowed to bet on their own drives, I would even go so far as to make it public information that such and such has bet x amount to win or each way on their drive in the next.

Even now, a driver can give his partner, or a friend, even the trainer of the horse, money to place on it and no one would be the wiser.