Average Inter-Dominion

[Zyuganov Leis]

All,

Is it just me, or is this years ID very average to say the least?

Apart from say the top 6 (no particular order) - Smoken Up / Mr Feelgood / I'm The Mighty Quinn / Waishakie / Auckland Reactor / Raglan, geez they seem to be an average lot. Certainly there are 'nice' horses, but by geez, the class level drops away by some margin from the top 6 to the rest. I'm not saying the others aren't good horses on their day, but our Grand Circuit to be fair is poor if we can only find 6 genuine topliners (and I'm being kind including Raglan in the top lot!)

I have to say (and wasn't the only one), but the recent Hunter Cup was WAY DOWN on it's general standard and apart from the emotion an ID brings and the appeal potential of the spectacle WA racing brings, the actual fields disappoint me.

Am I being too harsh or expecting too much or am I on the money and not the only one feeling the same?

[aussiebreno]

With Smoken Up and ITMQ being so far ahead of everyone not many have bothered to make the trip west. Why travel all that way to get beat when you can stay at home and have a chance of winning type thing. So rather than the 2nd teir horses (Melpark Major, Karloo Mick, Villagem etc) racing behind Smoken Up and ITMQ it will be the 3rd and 4th teir horses (Bus To Harland, Mysta Magical Mach, Scan Air).

[broncobrad]

Predictable quinellas in the first two heats, the third heat more interesting. It is a long trip for little reward for some of the lesser lights, hence the fields are full of locals that would never be considered worthy of travelling east.

That said the final will still be a cracker. ITMQ at home v Smoken Up v Auckland Reactor. If all horses are on song ... now thats a race!!!

[geoffkel]

The only horse I can see not there is Sushi Sushi, what else is around that you could say are genuine winning chances???

[Zyuganov Leis]

The only horse I can see not there is Sushi Sushi, what else is around that you could say are genuine winning chances???



Sorry Geoff, that's not the point I was trying to make. I could name another 6-10 who in my opinion should be there, but probably not up to winning also, however what I was getting at was the fact that from 40 horses, we really have only 5-6 who are considered genuine top class at the GC level and to me, that's disappointing.

All I'm saying in it's current state, the GC 'class' to me is disappointing when we can only find 5-6 that would compete with other years (again I'm being kind to Raglan who to be fair, 'just' and only just makes that 6)

I should say, I'm probably being too kind too Raglan out of respect for the colours of the barn he wears and their record in big races, not so much the horse itself and his record thus far which fundamentally reads nothing more than just being a very nice horse.

[David Summers]

The only horse I can see not there is Sushi Sushi, what else is around that you could say are genuine winning chances???

Let's hope Sushi is there next year at Menangle.

As the four best horses IMHO are each in different heats tonight , does anyone know how the fields were selected ? Were they all in a ballot and this is how they panned out or were they hand- selected to get ID012 off to a flying start?

[Mighty Atom]

If all the obvious horses make the final and throw in the likes of Saucy Legend,Chromac Johnny, Lombo Navigator,Dasher VC ( definitely a second tier horse), Lombo Pocket Watch and maybe one or two others I think you will have a final every bit as good or better than 2009, 2010 & 2011. Craig, I think you are being a bit unkind to Raglan, just have a look at the 2010 final - Atomic Ark, Awesome Armbro, Baileys Dream, Sammy Maguire - I mean who the hell are they - 4th tier horses if ever there was. Take the champ Blacks a Fake out of the last three inters and I think they are an ordinary lot apart from the usual top three. It seems your N.S.W, Vic horse don't want to venture anywhere, quite comfortable rugged up in their boxes in cold wet Melbourne. Even Auckland last year apart from the usual suspect ( Smoken Up) only 2 others Villagem and Captain Joy( bless their little hearts) showed up. All the eastern states and NZ horses have thrived in the west since they have been here obviously glad to get a bit of warmth into them. There's good money to be made from all the heats; if the stay at homers think they are good enough they should be over here so there's no excuse for staying home.

[David Summers]

I would have liked to have seen Sir Lincoln make the trip from NZ to Perth. He is absolutely flying and in career best form right now.

[Zyuganov Leis]

I would have liked to have seen Sir Lincoln make the trip from NZ to Perth. He is absolutely flying and in career best form right now.



I agree with this David. He's a horse like your Franco Jamar's, Excel Stride's along with the outstanding Sushi Sushi though who are all being looked after for next season and beyond.

Good times ahead in the future, touch wood.

[Zyuganov Leis]

If all the obvious horses make the final and throw in the likes of Saucy Legend,Chromac Johnny, Lombo Navigator,Dasher VC ( definitely a second tier horse), Lombo Pocket Watch and maybe one or two others I think you will have a final every bit as good or better than 2009, 2010 & 2011. Craig, I think you are being a bit unkind to Raglan, just have a look at the 2010 final - Atomic Ark, Awesome Armbro, Baileys Dream, Sammy Maguire - I mean who the hell are they - 4th tier horses if ever there was. Take the champ Blacks a Fake out of the last three inters and I think they are an ordinary lot apart from the usual top three. It seems your N.S.W, Vic horse don't want to venture anywhere, quite comfortable rugged up in their boxes in cold wet Melbourne. Even Auckland last year apart from the usual suspect ( Smoken Up) only 2 others Villagem and Captain Joy( bless their little hearts) showed up. All the eastern states and NZ horses have thrived in the west since they have been here obviously glad to get a bit of warmth into them. There's good money to be made from all the heats; if the stay at homers think they are good enough they should be over here so there's no excuse for staying home.

I'm sorry Rod, doesn't my post include Raglan in the top 5-6 horses and I also say "he's a very nice horse".

If you got the context of what I'm saying, I'm paying him further respect due to the colours of the camp he's in and their record. He is a very nice horse and probably likely to win a big race in the future, what seems to be your issue?

Also as a rule, many more horses travel West from the Eastern Seaboard than head East from your part of the world, is that not correct? They get turned into Lear Jets when they enter certain barns over there. Oop's silly me, must be that great weather... The others that go from East to West get drilled and end up running around as claimers or in 2900mtr standing start races forever and a day...

We Eastern seaboarders sell our horses to you WA guys because their no good anymore here, not the other way around. I think off memory you've had one in Dartmoor who found his way here and was running around under claiming conditions.

With your comments re; Baileys Dream and the like - he won over $600,000 / Atomic Ark over $400,000 / Awesome Armbro $300,000 and Sammy Maguire $200,000. Not bad for 4th tier horses I would think? Any of them could pick the grass in my backyard any day.

Somehow I don't see too many of yours travel to the Eastern Seaboard consistently if your saying their that good. If they are, why aren't they plundering the bigger money over here or is it just as easy for you lot to stay at home which your criticising our trainers for doing?

[teecee]

I would have liked to have seen Sir Lincoln make the trip from NZ to Perth. He is absolutely flying and in career best form right now.
For the owners and trainer it was probably a no brainer.
$400K race just down the road from home. Auckland Cup with hardly the strongest opposition likely.
Not a really tough rugged type likely to give his best in what would be 4 races in a fortnight and needing to be at the very top of his game for the last one against the best around here and there at the moment. (This will be the REACTORS nemesis too.)
Not a great traveller having to go 1/4 way round the world and then back again.
The mobile is a hugh help to him but he nearly managed to completely muck that up last week.

[aussiebreno]

Let's hope Sushi is there next year at Menangle.

As the four best horses IMHO are each in different heats tonight , does anyone know how the fields were selected ? Were they all in a ballot and this is how they panned out or were they hand- selected to get ID012 off to a flying start?
I believe its order of rankings Eg ranks 1,8,9,16 etc make up one heat, ranks 2,7,10,15 make up one heat etc.

[David Summers]

I believe its order of rankings Eg ranks 1,8,9,16 etc make up one heat, ranks 2,7,10,15 make up one heat etc.

Thanks Brendan. That seems like a good way to ensure the heats all have quality.

[Mighty Atom]

Craig you mentioned Dartmoor.......hardly an inspiration here even though trained by G.Hall, went back to Sydney and never stopped winning races even if they were claims. Watched him one night, stormed home from last on turn to win running away. D.Thorn probably imported some of our great weather along with the horse. Atomic Ark....Who, barely added to his k400 when he was racing in the west. On the other side of the ledger David Hercules travelled to Melbourne consistently as a three & four Year old plundering practically every thing he was in, comes back to W.A. and cant win a race. Trainer said its easier for him to win in Melbourne. Our harness horses and thoroughbreds travel to the east regularly, they accept it's a long way to travel but they just get on with it.

[broncobrad]

Looks like they got a decent crowd out there tonight.

[LisaB25]

I'm sorry Rod, doesn't my post include Raglan in the top 5-6 horses and I also say "he's a very nice horse".

If you got the context of what I'm saying, I'm paying him further respect due to the colours of the camp he's in and their record. He is a very nice horse and probably likely to win a big race in the future, what seems to be your issue?

Also as a rule, many more horses travel West from the Eastern Seaboard than head East from your part of the world, is that not correct? They get turned into Lear Jets when they enter certain barns over there. Oop's silly me, must be that great weather... The others that go from East to West get drilled and end up running around as claimers or in 2900mtr standing start races forever and a day...

We Eastern seaboarders sell our horses to you WA guys because their no good anymore here, not the other way around. I think off memory you've had one in Dartmoor who found his way here and was running around under claiming conditions.

With your comments re; Baileys Dream and the like - he won over $600,000 / Atomic Ark over $400,000 / Awesome Armbro $300,000 and Sammy Maguire $200,000. Not bad for 4th tier horses I would think? Any of them could pick the grass in my backyard any day.

Somehow I don't see too many of yours travel to the Eastern Seaboard consistently if your saying their that good. If they are, why aren't they plundering the bigger money over here or is it just as easy for you lot to stay at home which your criticising our trainers for doing?

Bigger money ? up until recently our prizemoney was just as good if not better than anywhere else in aust, so why would we travel for the similar or lesser money. Obviously the bigger races MM, Vic cup, hunter cup, derby's, oaks races etc carry big prizemoney but in terms of friday night meetings and feature races we have/had some of the best prizemoney around so yes it is just as easy for us to stay home.

GP always pulls a big crowd for big races, glad we booked a table for final nights months ago..

[Greg Hando]

I agree with Craig it is an ordinary Inter this year quality wise bar the top 6 but the racing has still been good .
Should A Butt be given time for his drive on Raglan imo he should it was bloody awful.

[Danno]

I agree with Craig it is an ordinary Inter this year quality wise bar the top 6 but the racing has still been good .
Should A Butt be given time for his drive on Raglan imo he should it was bloody awful.

Sorry Greg ,
can't really agree with you there mate, Raglan has shown that he doesn't want to see daylight too far from home and it appeared he was banking on Mr Feelgood carrying him to the 300/400 before pulling out. Under normal circumstances you would have expected Mr Feelogood to carry you all the way to the post!, but it wasn't the way it worked out.
Had Anthony Butt pulled out when the 3 wide moved up, yes he would have got clear, but would he have won? I doubt it, and the way the horse responded in the straight when Butt gave him touch up, I doubt he would have run a place.
So in short, I think Butt was damned if he did and damned if he didn't, a bad drive on face value and I'm certain he's not proud of it, but unfortunately he just drew the wrong cards IMO.

Cheers,

Dan

[mango]

Fields are out for the 2nd round of heats and the major players would have to be happy with there draws. The Inter might be light on quality compared to previous years but if the main 6 player's make it to the final it will make it for one hell of a race.

[David Summers]

Fields for Round 2 Monday 20th Feb: http://www.harnesslink.com/www/Article.cgi?ID=95785

Mr Feelgood seems to be racing well below his best at the moment. I would love to be proven wrong, but he may not even make the final the way he is going and that would be such a shame.

Amazing run by Washakie , there is no doubt about that. So tough.

[Old Frank]

Fields for Round 2 Monday 20th Feb: http://www.harnesslink.com/www/Article.cgi?ID=95785

Mr Feelgood seems to be racing well below his best at the moment. I would love to be proven wrong, but he may not even make the final the way he is going and that would be such a shame.

Amazing run by Washakie , there is no doubt about that. So tough.


Super run Washakie, absolutely hammered in front and still had the gumption to be right there at the finish. He would have slept well that night!

[Greg Hando]

Very good run and also the horse that applied the pressure as well.i think Washakie can win it with a little bit of luck .

[LisaB25]

hopefully he's come through it well and 2 days was enough to recover, looks as though he will be the one doing the work again tonight..

[broncobrad]

Washakie, can't believe his performance tonight, was it too much of a gutbuster on Friday night? Hopefully Harold Parker casts his eye over the horse for us tonight. Don't think Raglan can win on his run tonight.

[aussiebreno]

What about Lombo Navigator turnaround from the death to racing with a sit. Ran faster mile rate than he did over the 1700m.

[Danno]

Washakie, can't believe his performance tonight, was it too much of a gutbuster on Friday night? Hopefully Harold Parker casts his eye over the horse for us tonight. Don't think Raglan can win on his run tonight.

G'day Brad
He can do that every now and then Washakie, put in a ripper followed by a shocker, then come out next week and go enormous again. I wouldn't write off the Butt's horse either, he had to sprint three times, IMO he has shown a bit more versatility with tonights run. I know he didn't exactly fly home, but he did enough to hold out the others and as I said that was the the third time he was required to find a sprint.
Cheers,
Dan.

[The Form Student]

Well boys, it looks like the hard run in the heat has killed Washakie..........had good run tonight and was first horse beat at the 600......needs to find an easy heat on friday and have a bludge run to make the final!!!

[broncobrad]

Just had a bloody big storm go through and only just watched replay of heat 6, nice to see an improved run by MFG and I think the Reactor looked sharp tonight although from the front he was never gunna get beat. Bless his soul the $2.40 fixed odds was grand larceny. Ok Dan, I might have gone off a bit early about Raglan. However we haven't seen the best go round thus far and only hope I'm still awake to watch them both.

[The Form Student]

Just had a bloody big storm go through and only just watched replay of heat 6, nice to see an improved run by MFG and I think the Reactor looked sharp tonight although from the front he was never gunna get beat. Bless his soul the $2.40 fixed odds was grand larceny. Ok Dan, I might have gone off a bit early about Raglan. However we haven't seen the best go round thus far and only hope I'm still awake to watch them both.

Hey Brad, I can see all the lightning, thunder and black clouds headed my way to the Northern Rivers.......have never seen so much lightning!!!

[broncobrad]

Yeah its really crap, gotta another one going thru now.

Does everyone remember whoever it was on the forum who made that ridiculous statement "watching boring old Smoken Up going around". I find him anything but boring. He is just an out and out champion, the type that just says to the bloke on his outside "it don't matter how many gears you've got, I will always have one more than you. Goodnight Cromby you ran a good race. See you in the sheds.

[The Form Student]

Yeah its really crap, gotta another one going thru now.

Does everyone remember whoever it was on the forum who made that ridiculous statement "watching boring old Smoken Up going around". I find him anything but boring. He is just an out and out champion, the type that just says to the bloke on his outside "it don't matter how many gears you've got, I will always have one more than you. Goodnight Cromby you ran a good race. See you in the sheds.

Crombie was an outstanding run, but old SU, you coulcn't kill him with an elephant gun......he just keeps going and going....barrier draw will pay a big part in the final!

[broncobrad]

Bedtime for me Steve, love to see the head on with Dasher VC and Quinny down the back. I thought heres another Raglan drive until ITMQ got out. That was cucumber cool. Forget the third heats lets get to the final!!!

[Lenem]

Looks like being an intriguing final but that could have been achieved by handpicking the field.There are too many very ordinary WA open classers and claimers (!) just making up the numbers.Oh for the days when they came from everywhere to compete and every heat was a treat in itself.

[broncobrad]

Sky just showed vision of the back straight and it looks like Gary Hall has forced a run out under Dasher VC knocking him off stride in the process. If they use the thoroughbred stewards over there Hall would get life after the way they took that race off that New Zealand galloper, Hes Remarkable, late last year. He should be safe with harness stewards though.

[kaybee]

G Hall will be fine the live race looked worse than the head on video.

[Greg Hando]

Washakie just scratched from Inter's with a virus.

[David Summers]

The run was too bad to be true and glad that there is now at least there is an explanation. I thought he was right in with a big chance of at least a place in the final after that amazing first heat run. A bit of a spell now then hopefully back soon , better than ever.

[Mighty Atom]

Does everyone remember whoever it was on the forum who made that ridiculous statement "watching boring old Smoken Up going around".

Hi Brad, Yeah, that was me, He may be a champion but he's still boring. The one thing I give him credit for is that he always runs time. He only knows the front but if he draws outside Peter Tilbrook's horses in the final I don't think he will get it.

[broncobrad]

Does everyone remember whoever it was on the forum who made that ridiculous statement "watching boring old Smoken Up going around".

Hi Brad, Yeah, that was me, He may be a champion but he's still boring. The one thing I give him credit for is that he always runs time. He only knows the front but if he draws outside Peter Tilbrook's horses in the final I don't think he will get it.

Hi Mighty Atom thanks for saying it was you, saved me trawling back through all the old posts. His win in that Melton mile race. Crikey, he looked shot and still wins. The other night it looked for a moment again that he was about to get eaten alive, but no he pulls out enough and then really pulls away on the line. Nothing boring about those efforts Rod. ITMQ might do him in the final with his brilliant sit/sprint style and as tough as SU is, even if he does lead, it is going to be an uphill struggle for him to hold on. Dunno about you Rod but I love horses that can do it at both ends and he is the yardstick. He just keeps answering his critcs with grit and guts.

Cheers

[Mighty Atom]

Hi Mighty Atom thanks for saying it was you, saved me trawling back through all the old posts. His win in that Melton mile race. Crikey, he looked shot and still wins. The other night it looked for a moment again that he was about to get eaten alive, but no he pulls out enough and then really pulls away on the line. Nothing boring about those efforts Rod. ITMQ might do him in the final with his brilliant sit/sprint style and as tough as SU is, even if he does lead, it is going to be an uphill struggle for him to hold on. Dunno about you Rod but I love horses that can do it at both ends and he is the yardstick. He just keeps answering his critcs with grit and guts.

Cheers

I,m a huge fan of ITMQ so obviously a little bias but I do agree Brad he's got guts. If Smoken can get to the front pretty easily and no pressure applied he will win the final.

[broncobrad]

Smoken Ups getting into Black Caviar odds tonight $1.06 Fixed, and $1.04 NSW tote. That race won't be costing me much. Sit back and enjoy Mighty Atom.

[Viv Strangman]

Word in NZ today is A Butt will stick with Auckland Reactor for the final. Big call with Tim training Raglan