Live Foal percentages

[justdoit]

100 mare bred, say 70% infoal, 70% live foals? is that how it works?
What is the difference between NA and AU and NZ?
NA has pay on live foal, do many in AU and NZ do this? I think the Stallion Station offer it.

[mango]

Most of the frozen semen sire's e.g Western Ideal, Rocknroll Hanover, Artsplace, Muscles Yankee and Muscle hill are pay on live foal but i dont think the stallion station have any pay on live foal stallions there.

[Neil]

there were othes prepared to do it this year - I even heard of one saying when weaned

[mango]

I suppose it's hard for the studs out here who import the stallions to have a pay on live foal due to there cost must be paid straight away, such as insurance, transport and advertising. I like the idea of pay on live foal that way if your mare misses or something happens your not locked into that stallion the next year.

[justdoit]

Don`t feel to bad for the studs Mango, they will agree to just about any payment arrangments you can think of.
Pay on live foal is the best by far.
Paying after the yearling sales of the previous years foals is also helpful.
Anyone that pays at 45 day preg must have that money sitting around in a tin.
The infoal % dropped after the introduction of AI and fell below that of the thoroughbreds.

[justdoit]

http://harness.org.au/hra/annual/public/stats/dec_breed.htm

Has anyone seen a more up to date report than this one, the recently formed breeding panel could have started work 10 years ago.

Check out the the two last columns at this link
http://harness.org.au/hra/annual/public/stats/regn_all.pdf

EI is blamed for the decrease, to me the decline is easy to see prior to EI.
It would be very interesting to see more current figures.

[mango]

Hey Justdoit
Don't get me wrong i don't feel bad for studs but they do have a lot of costs, and i'd say the owners of the stallions in America would want there money a.s.a.p and now that most stallions over there can only serve 150 by sending them down here they have open books and this is where they make there money. As i said before i'm a big fan of pay on live foal, i had a Western Ideal filly born oct 2010 and it was pay on live foal and i already had the money before my mare was was 42 day positive so i put my money in a fixed term for 12 months and made about $1000 interest so i'm the winner this time around.

[justdoit]

140 in the USA and no limit in Canada, it make the likes of Western Ideal more attractive to breeders.

[triplev123]

G'day Justdoit,

Here in Australia for the 2009/2010 Season 8,415 mares were served resulting 5,197 live foals, a thoroughly disgraceful & most notably all-time low of 61.76%.
I have my own ideas/theories on why this has occurred and I intend to deliver directly to the Breeding Panel at one of their planned public meetings in the coming moths.
Incidentally, in the 2009/2010 Season, for the 1st time EVER and despite all the assisted breeding techniques that we were are able to employ...the Australian Harness Racing Industry's Live Foal % actually fell below that which was recorded by the TB's. I'm not sure the Industry Desk Pilots here in Oz truly appreciate the significance of that unprecedented outcome.

[Neil]

they are pretty poor results - wonder what the equivalent is here. does the drought you were having last year have a significant impact?

[Flashing Red]

G'day Justdoit,

Here in Australia for the 2009/2010 Season 8,415 mares were served resulting 5,197 live foals, a thoroughly disgraceful & most notably all-time low of 61.76%.
I have my own ideas/theories on why this has occurred and I intend to deliver directly to the Breeding Panel at one of their planned public meetings in the coming moths.
Incidentally, in the 2009/2010 Season, for the 1st time EVER and despite all the assisted breeding techniques that we were are able to employ...the Australian Harness Racing Industry's Live Foal % actually fell below that which was recorded by the TB's. I'm not sure the Industry Desk Pilots here in Oz truly appreciate the significance of that unprecedented outcome.

What is disgraceful (not disagreeing with you) - the fact that 8,415 mares were served for only 5,197 foals born? I don't know what the statistics are normally. Our only mare that missed was due to the fact Art Major returned to the US. So it was impossible! lol! :)

[justdoit]

Hi Flashing Red,
I´m sure the Breeding Panel will be able to give us a better break up of the figures, the service certificates are handed in at the end of each season. I feel it is not the best way for harness racing to keep track of breeding patterns. It should be done monthly at the most. Problems could then be addressed a little quicker.:)

Stud farms should be required to provide breeders/vets upon ordering semen the full details of the semen in that order.- Total Volume,semen numbers,progressively motile,type of extender,antibiotic,date and time collected. This should be LAW:)

triplev123 are you going to tell them the decrease is due to the open book, have the chaps on the Panel ever profited from open books? got that kevin Seymour $$ shares look about it. :):)

[triplev123]

G'day Justdoit,

I don't wish to telegraph my punches so come along to the Panel get together at Menangle in Feb and I'll be more than happy to personally hand you a copy of what I've been working on.
It's not that extensive nor is it impressive to look at but it entails a few changes, the benefits of which I hope I get a chance to expand upon.
They are changes which could be very simply made as the information required to produce them is already at hand...just that it is not being used/used effectively.
Hopefully I get a fair hearing. Given the blokes on the Panel, I expect that I will.

Incidentally, you wrote...QUOTE [Stud farms should be required to provide breeders/vets upon ordering semen the full details of the semen in that order.- Total Volume, semen numbers, progressively motile, type of extender,antibiotic,date and time collected. This should be LAW ] END QUOTE.

That's all well and good however I do wonder...given that you're predisposed to saddling Studs/Stallion owners with further Vet and paperwork and therefore cost...would you be similarly prepared to pay up for & provide, on each and every occasion that you request semen, something equivalent such as a Breeding Soundness Certificate for your Mare/s for example....to the Stud involved...one that you were required by them to produce prior to them shipping semen to you? :confused:

The Certificate might state, for example, that the mare/s in question was/were in good health, had been scanned, cultured etc & was/were, in the opinion of the undersigned Vert, ready to be bred or something along those lines that was of a similar wording.

Would you, similarly to that which you would ask of the Studs, accept that as... LAW? :confused:

The problem, Justdoit, is also not that we need but currently do not have a month by month update system in place, something which like the NBN sounds great but in practical terms, would not work.

Instead it is that currently all the nitty gritty information Breeders need to make informed choices is not only of largely historical in value only...as in we find out 8-12 months down the track when the mares have been served and the money spent...but when that information finally becomes available aspects of it are either not reported at all...or if theose aspects are included then they come in a combined form that I firmly believe lacks clarity and so serves no useful purpose. Breeders are no richer for having read them, in fact they are in fact somewhat poorer for having wasted 1/2 an hour-1 hour of their lives. :mad:

There just has to be a better way.

[justdoit]

Good Morning Triplev123,
The cost of attaching the daily semen figures would not be that great, Diamond Creek Stud spoke of this briefly on his blog????:)
The breeding soundness( has to be another way to say that) of standardbred broodmares is definitely one of the factors for the
decline, it is not compulsory upon booking your mare or ordering semen to give any details such as you stated "The Certificate might state, for example, that the mare/s in question was/were in good health, had been scanned, cultured etc & was/were, in the opinion of the undersigned Vert, ready to be bred or something along those lines that was of a similar wording." Some guidelines need to be set in place and in doing so in the end everyone would benefit.

All that is required by the stud farms is that the breeder has a fax machine and a telephone phone. AHha could it have something to do with another of your post regarding them selling semen and not breedings.......If breedings were limited this thread would not exist.:):):)

The guys on the Breeding Panel IMO are the best for the job and if they really believe a change needs to happen they should be able to make it happen.

In your picture is that the filly?

[triplev123]

Well Justdoit, we're getting there.
Somewhere, somehow, at some point hopefully sooner rather than late I'm certain that significant progress will be made.
A lot of largely useless recording and blurred information delievery needs to be dispensed with in the interim.

[buster]

why would anyone order semen if their mare wasn't in good health, right sized follicles etc etc?? just throwing money at the vet

my vet has been keeping the residual amount of semen after AI to check the next day, ie its kept at the same temp as it is inside the mare and THEN check sperm mobility, count etc

i notice cullen and mach three are terrible offenders for low foal numbers, so many missed and no returns its amazing

but i did see a very nice 2 yr old at the trials by mach three out of a star studded family, so should be interesting - heading for bathurst and the apg

[triplev123]

G'day Buster,

WHY would anyone order semen if their mare wasn't primed and ready to be bred?...indeed. That is the eternal question my friend and thus far the answer remains one of Life's Great Mysteries. It is also, unfortunately, but the very tip of the Iceberg. That which lies below and largely unseen/unacknowledged is far more disturbing.

[justdoit]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5LvwzanCLCo&feature=related