This is long overdue.

[Triple V]

TRAINERS PERCENTAGE INCREASEDTuesday 24 April2012

The Board of Harness Racing NSW yesterday resolved to make the following changes to prizemoney distribution and trainer/driver percentages earned from prizemoney to coincide with stake increases to be introduced on 1 July 2012.

1. Trainers percentage of prizemoney has been increased to 7.5% – Effective 1 July 2012

2. Trainers (7.5%) and drivers (5%) percentage of prizemoney will be paid beyond third place, where applicable, as indicated by the grey shaded area below – Effective 1 July 2012

3. Prizemoney distribution for non-penaltybearing “M”, “C” and “R” races (such as drivers invitation races) is to be the same as the break-up for the “Country Finals”, as indicated below, regardless of what track they are conducted at – Effective immediately

(sorry, can't get the table to reproduce correctly)

[Danno]

G'day Jamie,
I have to say first up, nobody in this game gets paid enough for their skills, hours and risks....
But at this stage of the ball game I reckon they could have waited a little longer for this, I know you and others are gunna cringe as I bat on once again for the owners!!!
They finally get a sniff (in NSW) of a bit more incentive in the way of prizemoney increases via "race fields legislation" and some will say this takes too much away.
Check out the HRA site poll on prizemoney distribution..68% say more money to prizemoney...11% vote increase trainers percentages. I guarantee that less than 68% of respondants were owners, the vast majority of participants acknowledge the need to increase prizemoney first and foremost.

Cheers,
Dan

Goes to show they're listening doesn't it!

[aussiebreno]

G'day Jamie,
I have to say first up, nobody in this game gets paid enough for their skills, hours and risks....
But at this stage of the ball game I reckon they could have waited a little longer for this, I know you and others are gunna cringe as I bat on once again for the owners!!!
They finally get a sniff (in NSW) of a bit more incentive in the way of prizemoney increases via "race fields legislation" and some will say this takes too much away.
Check out the HRA site poll on prizemoney distribution..68% say more money to prizemoney...11% vote increase trainers percentages. I guarantee that less than 68% of respondants were owners, the vast majority of participants acknowledge the need to increase prizemoney first and foremost.

Cheers,
Dan

Goes to show they're listening doesn't it!
Ahh yes the harness.org poll. I seen that and thought that they may as well have wrote are you a) an owner, b) a trainer c) a driver d) a breeder or e) a race club staff!
Imo the poll was merely the HRA marketing departments way of finding out their audience. Ok maybe not that extreme, but it would have strong correlations. That said I'm merely a fan at the moment and I still voted for owners....trainers can raise fees.
That said I'm not going to begrudge trainers a bigger share if HRNSW think its the right thing to do.

Edit: That post is an EW bet if I've ever seen one.

[Gtrain]

Danno I tend to agree. We're not lacking trainers but judging by recent sale results, owners are becoming rarer than a GWS win.

[p plater]

With an increase in prizemoney both the Owners and the trainer/driver get a bit more. As mentioned above trainers can and have increased their fees.
We need Owners to re invest in more horses.

[Danno]

Ahh yes the harness.org poll. I seen that and thought that they may as well have wrote are you a) an owner, b) a trainer c) a driver d) a breeder or e) a race club staff!
Imo the poll was merely the HRA marketing departments way of finding out their audience. Ok maybe not that extreme, but it would have strong correlations. That said I'm merely a fan at the moment and I still voted for owners....trainers can raise fees.
That said I'm not going to begrudge trainers a bigger share if HRNSW think its the right thing to do.

Edit: That post is an EW bet if I've ever seen one.

G'day Brendan,
I have no idea how many of those polls you have looked at , but personnally, I've always taken a "cynics' look, just to see what the various radars are displaying.
During this time I have been surprised rarely by the the polls results, but this was once such occasion. I took one thing from it..that there are very few participants in the silly game that are not involved in ownership... not good news if you are planning on setting up a "professional operation" eh??

[Triple V]

G'day Dan,

You don't see a 'preventative medicine' aspect to this announcement at all?
I wonder if we had the prizemoney and %'s in place 3 or 4 or 5 years ago would we have seen the July/August 2011 bombshell here in NSW?

[teecee]

G'day Dan,

You don't see a 'preventative medicine' aspect to this announcement at all?
I wonder if we had the prizemoney and %'s in place 3 or 4 or 5 years ago would we have seen the July/August 2011 bombshell here in NSW?

From someone who lives and works where we 10% for I dont know how long tho it's now 10% of zilch....
I think not...IMO

[Danno]

G'day Dan,

You don't see a 'preventative medicine' aspect to this announcement at all?
I wonder if we had the prizemoney and %'s in place 3 or 4 or 5 years ago would we have seen the July/August 2011 bombshell here in NSW?

G'day Jamie,
to be completely honest no I did not see that aspect, however that said, do you reckon an increase in trainers take from the prizemoney would have prevented that particular series of incidents?
No one will ever know for sure we can just offer opinions and personally I think not, these people were not after an increase in their earnings, they were after a quick buck!

One of the people currently under charges from the NSW police was not a trainer at all, but a fully "professional" freelance driver, so I don't think an increase in trainers percentages was going to be any sort of preventative for him do you?


Cheers,
Dan

[aussiebreno]

I don't think it would have prevented it either. The bloke earning hundreds is always looking for thousands, the bloke earning thousands is always looking for tens of thousands, the bloke earning tens of millions is looking for billions etc imo. News of the World journos and editors would have been handsomely paid yet still went for corrupt ways to find stories. Stories that would have had some say in future income perhaps.

[broncobrad]

IMO the prizemoney increases are a Godsend for the industry in NSW. The poor old trainer is on the job 26 hrs a day (if you include the sleepless nights) and deserves every cent plus more. I thought the announcement might have been premature but its out there now. No matter how much the prizemoney increases tho', there will always be someone after the quick or easy buck, sad part of human nature. But while the bigger bucks are available there will be more participants chasing them. Has there been any announcements on funding increases for swabbing?

[Thevoiceofreason]

Away from any comment on the corruption issue I think this is a good move because it really benefits everyone.

There was a point put forward that trainers could increase their training fees, whilst this is true it does not help the owner who has a slow horse that is not earning prizemoney and it will only drive him further from the industry quicker.

An increase in trainers percentages has no effect on an owner trainer because he gets it all anyway, if it keeps a professional trainer with better cash flow and higher returns then he may be able to keep his training fees at a lower level.

Harness trainers in NSW have trained horses at a very reasonable cost structure for many years when you compare it to their gallop counterparts, when you consider base costs such as feed and transport are exactly the same it has been a huge effort, I see this move as another great step forward in keeping professional trainers in the industry and therefore also benefiting owners by giving them a greater choice of trainers at a reasonable cost structure.

Congratulations to HRNSW yet again.

[Triple V]

The way I see things....it's infinitely easier to co-opt someone when they're eating the paint off the walls & don't have enough $ in their pocket to fill up their car, let alone take their girlfriend out for dinner every once in a while.
As disturbing and unpalatable as it might be for some people to read, if what I've been told is accurate and I've no reason to doubt it at all, it was not so very long ago that the services of a few impressionable young up & coming participants were initially secured for little more than the price of a meal at a Chinese Restaurant.
That's how it all starts off. "Geeze, isn't old mate such a nice bloke, he asked us along, paid for dinner"...etc etc etc. Next thing, ring ring, ring ring "Hey, it's old mate here, yeh, we had Chinese the other night, I was wondering...you know that horse you're driving in Race 3....."
I'm not in the least bit surprised that those blokes did what they did/do what they do either because the gates were well & truly left wide open & the dinner bell was ringing. To them it is nothing personal, it's just the way they put food on the table.
In a great many respects the Industry itself, from top to bottom, played an admittedly unwitting though nonetheless responsible hand in that sort of thing ultimately coming to pass. Those quick buck boys are always around & they were essentially left free to pray upon a whole host of people, especially so youngsters with very little or no guidance/mentoring, and also those who had begun to see little or no career path & who, for their efforts, had earned little or no money.
One well known participant in particular, I know for a fact he had long been calling for (some 4-5 years prior to July/August 2011) a mentoring process to be put in place for young drivers for example. To my knowledge nothing ever happened save the idea time and again being given the usual lip service/the mirror routine..."Yeh, that's a good idea...we'll look into that".
I can't help but be left with the feeling that a large slice of what has come to pass in recent times could have been greatly diminished/all but avoided, had the Industry's head been a little less jammed up its own clacker & its financial circumstances different. It doesn't excuse their behaviour of course...some had more than enough kanga on hand prior to embarking on their dodgy excursions... but for a numer of the smaller but nonetheless vital bit players, I feel it does go some way towards explaining it.

In an attempt to offset much of the above, HRNSW spreading the $ around and putting a bit of the folding stuff in a lot of people's pockets & showing them, especially so the younger brigade, a genuine career path...one that leads beyond what sort of stunt is going to be pulled this week or next week...is going to help no end. As naive as it may seem...I believe that given the opportunity, most people will inherently do the right thing.
You'll never stop them all of course, for some it wouldn't matter if we were racing week in week out to win City blocks, they would still be a smarty & try to subvert it to their benefit, but by and large if there's more $ going around then it makes the task of those people who'd do seek to do the wrong thing a whole lot harder.

[The Rainmaker]

Away from any comment on the corruption issue I think this is a good move because it really benefits everyone.

There was a point put forward that trainers could increase their training fees, whilst this is true it does not help the owner who has a slow horse that is not earning prizemoney and it will only drive him further from the industry quicker.

An increase in trainers percentages has no effect on an owner trainer because he gets it all anyway, if it keeps a professional trainer with better cash flow and higher returns then he may be able to keep his training fees at a lower level.

Harness trainers in NSW have trained horses at a very reasonable cost structure for many years when you compare it to their gallop counterparts, when you consider base costs such as feed and transport are exactly the same it has been a huge effort, I see this move as another great step forward in keeping professional trainers in the industry and therefore also benefiting owners by giving them a greater choice of trainers at a reasonable cost structure.

Congratulations to HRNSW yet again.


Some good points in that post. However I think HRNSW might have been abit quick off the mark to raise the trainers % until they have told all industry participants what they plan to do with all the extra income after the race fields legislation was validated.

HRNSW are apparently doing some 'road shows' around different venues across the state to discuss the new windfall and how to spend it. In comparison, within 2 days of the High Court decision Racing NSW issued a release that all Country NSW race meetings would have a minimum purse of 10k per race, midweek City 30k per race etc. It seems as though HRNSW wants to raise the thought of some other ideas but priority number one should be prizemoney.

90% of horses out there are useless and make no return let alone profit, there is no doubt about that. And with a recent drivers pay increase funded by the owner, now trainers percentage increase, poor yearling sale numbers and owners leaving the sport in NSW due to the widespread corruption which surfaced last year, I just hope HRNSW come through with the goods for the owners. Less owners = less trainers = less drivers.

[Danno]

[QUOTE=The Rainmaker;20220]Some good points in that post. However I think HRNSW might have been abit quick off the mark to raise the trainers % until they have told all industry participants what they plan to do with all the extra income after the race fields legislation was validated.

HRNSW are apparently doing some 'road shows' around different venues across the state to discuss the new windfall and how to spend it. In comparison, within 2 days of the High Court decision Racing NSW issued a release that all Country NSW race meetings would have a minimum purse of 10k per race, midweek City 30k per race etc. It seems as though HRNSW wants to raise the thought of some other ideas but priority number one should be prizemoney.


Here here Eric, most people think the same mate but there are always some people who care more about themselves than the game. And they would be the people lobbying this bullshit about giving trainers more so trainers stay in the game...the point you made is VERY VALID no owners=no trainers=no drivers=no breeders=no HR admin positions= no bloody game for anybody.
If you make the game attractive to owners, the game gets stronger for everyone.

[Danno]

The way I see things....it's infinitely easier to co-opt someone when they're eating the paint off the walls & don't have enough $ in their pocket to fill up their car, let alone take their girlfriend out for dinner every once in a while.
As disturbing and unpalatable as it might be for some people to read, if what I've been told is accurate and I've no reason to doubt it at all, it was not so very long ago that the services of a few impressionable young up & coming participants were initially secured for little more than the price of a meal at a Chinese Restaurant.
That's how it all starts off. "Geeze, isn't old mate such a nice bloke, he asked us along, paid for dinner"...etc etc etc. Next thing, ring ring, ring ring "Hey, it's old mate here, yeh, we had Chinese the other night, I was wondering...you know that horse you're driving in Race 3....."
I'm not in the least bit surprised that those blokes did what they did/do what they do either because the gates were well & truly left wide open & the dinner bell was ringing. To them it is nothing personal, it's just the way they put food on the table.
In a great many respects the Industry itself, from top to bottom, played an admittedly unwitting though nonetheless responsible hand in that sort of thing ultimately coming to pass. Those quick buck boys are always around & they were essentially left free to pray upon a whole host of people, especially so youngsters with very little or no guidance/mentoring, and also those who had begun to see little or no career path & who, for their efforts, had earned little or no money.
One well known participant in particular, I know for a fact he had long been calling for (some 4-5 years prior to July/August 2011) a mentoring process to be put in place for young drivers for example. To my knowledge nothing ever happened save the idea time and again being given the usual lip service/the mirror routine..."Yeh, that's a good idea...we'll look into that".
I can't help but be left with the feeling that a large slice of what has come to pass in recent times could have been greatly diminished/all but avoided, had the Industry's head been a little less jammed up its own clacker & its financial circumstances different. It doesn't excuse their behaviour of course...some had more than enough kanga on hand prior to embarking on their dodgy excursions... but for a numer of the smaller but nonetheless vital bit players, I feel it does go some way towards explaining it.

In an attempt to offset much of the above, HRNSW spreading the $ around and putting a bit of the folding stuff in a lot of people's pockets & showing them, especially so the younger brigade, a genuine career path...one that leads beyond what sort of stunt is going to be pulled this week or next week...is going to help no end. As naive as it may seem...I believe that given the opportunity, most people will inherently do the right thing.
You'll never stop them all of course, for some it wouldn't matter if we were racing week in week out to win City blocks, they would still be a smarty & try to subvert it to their benefit, but by and large if there's more $ going around then it makes the task of those people who'd do seek to do the wrong thing a whole lot harder.

Like everyone Jamie, your entitled to your opinion, but gee mate two of the guys currently under police charges come from very successfull long term industry families who had every chance to walk a straight line but it appears "chose" another.
No mentoring program was gunna change what these guys allegedly did, they had great mentors already!

HRNSW are trying to do good things no doubt, but like anybody some times you can get the bull by the tail and personnally, I think the increase in trainers take from prizemoney is a mistake. Trainers do not make or break this stupid game we play, they feed of it like a lot of others....it's such a simple thing really, when did you hear of the lack of trainers in the game that was affecting field sizes????? It's never happened!

[Triple V]

That's certainly fair comment where those two are concerned. They neither lacked for direction nor, to my knowledge, for resources.
They are but two from a raft of many however, much more the exception than the rule.
Like I said above....... It doesn't excuse their behaviour of course...some had more than enough kanga on hand prior to embarking on their dodgy excursions... but for a number of the smaller but nonetheless vital bit players, I feel it does go some way towards explaining it.
By way of spreading some more $ around of course you're not going to stop everybody, everytime, all the time...but it's a start. The next thing will be an increase in the Driver %'s and I'm not against that either.
Ideally I want to see NSW Harness Racing reach the point where we will have a whole swag of full-time Professional Trainers and full-time Professional Drivers on hand, we need people to see doing either or both as a viable career path/choice...not something they do in their spare time, and in the end that comes down to the folding stuff.
If I jump that way and I work hard and make a go of it, am I going to be in a position where I can pay my bills and live a reasonable lifestyle?
You know, there's long been somewhat of an underlying mental road block out there on the part of many Owners when it comes to this subject. Most Owners take a 'recreational persuit' viewpoint to their racing activities & so there's this implication there, they tend to view it as somehow being the same for their Trainers & Drivers...and of course that is simply not the case.
It might initially sound like a leap of faith but I believe there are significant parallels to be drawn between this subject and that of drug testing.
In both instances over the years we have all the heard repeated calls....on one hand for more Professionalism on the part of both Trainers and Drivers and on the other, more extensive/expansive drug testing...however, in both instances, nobody actually wants to pay for it.

[The Rainmaker]

Theres some good discussion here gents. I have no issue with the training % increase providing there will be an increase in prizemoney to offset it and then some for owners, because at this point in time it's another cost to the owner. It seems a very backward way to me that HRNSW would announce this first before any prizemoney increase or what benefits will come to owners out of the race field legislation validation.

The way I see it the trainers % increase is only going to benefit your McCarthys, Fitzpatricks, Thorns etc. because they're the blokes with the good stock churning out daily winners and metro winners at Menangle. Those blokes are already making a tidy living out of the sport. The % increase is also going to have no effect for an owner/trainer as what they will collect from a win/placing is all theirs anyway. But the battling trainers with small stables who train for a couple of clients to try and make a living and have stock with limited ability aren't going to get much benefit at all.

The race fields legislation has been a windfall for NSW and I just hope they have the sense to give something to the 90% of owners who burn a hole in their pocket every year and some support to the trainers who need it the most.

[Thevoiceofreason]

Theres some good discussion here gents. I have no issue with the training % increase providing there will be an increase in prizemoney to offset it and then some for owners, because at this point in time it's another cost to the owner. It seems a very backward way to me that HRNSW would announce this first before any prizemoney increase or what benefits will come to owners out of the race field legislation validation.

The way I see it the trainers % increase is only going to benefit your McCarthys, Fitzpatricks, Thorns etc. because they're the blokes with the good stock churning out daily winners and metro winners at Menangle. Those blokes are already making a tidy living out of the sport. The % increase is also going to have no effect for an owner/trainer as what they will collect from a win/placing is all theirs anyway. But the battling trainers with small stables who train for a couple of clients to try and make a living and have stock with limited ability aren't going to get much benefit at all.

The race fields legislation has been a windfall for NSW and I just hope they have the sense to give something to the 90% of owners who burn a hole in their pocket every year and some support to the trainers who need it the most.

Did you miss this bit of the announcement.
The Board of Harness Racing NSW yesterday resolved to make the following changes to prizemoney distribution and trainer/driver percentages earned from prizemoney to coincide with stake increases to be introduced on 1 July 2012.

[The Rainmaker]

Did you miss this bit of the announcement.
The Board of Harness Racing NSW yesterday resolved to make the following changes to prizemoney distribution and trainer/driver percentages earned from prizemoney to coincide with stake increases to be introduced on 1 July 2012.

Yes but where and what are the stakes increases?

It should be priority number one, just like Racing NSW made it 2 days after the announcement of the race fields legislation. But according to this:

Following on from the Race Fields Legislation High Court decision on 30 March 2012 the Board can now plan for the future with a far greater assurance of annual income streams, knowing that what has been quarantined
from previous Race Fields payments can be used to fund initiatives. In order to best communicate what the high court decision means to harness racing stakeholders, representatives from the Board and relative Executive Staff will be travelling to each Region as per the below timetable to discuss the issues listed:

Metropolitan Region Tabcorp Park Menangle Friday, 27 April @ 7:00pm
Hunter/North West Region Newcastle Paceway Monday, 30 April @ 7:00pm
Western Districts Bathurst Showground Tuesday, 1 May @ 7:00pm
South West & Riverina Wagga Showground Wednesday, 2 May @ 7:00pm

Funding Model
•
TAB Distribution and Race Fields
•
Training Centres & Tracks
Racecourse Development Fund/National Party Election Promise
•
Plant & Equipment Purchases
•
Building & Track Works
Race Dates 2012/13 and beyond
•
Principles
•
Aims
•
Penalty Thresholds
Race Programs/Handicapping
•
Industry feedback concerning programming and handicapping
User Pays Licences
•
The introduction of a lower flat fee and a per drive/per starter fee for insurance, including the introduction of a state-wide Sulky Fund.
NSW Breeders Challenge Nominators Bonuses
•
The introduction of the Bonuses and what it means to nominators.
General Discussion

It seems like HRNSW have other grand plans with that money.

[Mark Croatto]

Some good points in that post. However I think HRNSW might have been abit quick off the mark to raise the trainers % until they have told all industry participants what they plan to do with all the extra income after the race fields legislation was validated.

HRNSW are apparently doing some 'road shows' around different venues across the state to discuss the new windfall and how to spend it. In comparison, within 2 days of the High Court decision Racing NSW issued a release that all Country NSW race meetings would have a minimum purse of 10k per race, midweek City 30k per race etc. It seems as though HRNSW wants to raise the thought of some other ideas but priority number one should be prizemoney.

90% of horses out there are useless and make no return let alone profit, there is no doubt about that. And with a recent drivers pay increase funded by the owner, now trainers percentage increase, poor yearling sale numbers and owners leaving the sport in NSW due to the widespread corruption which surfaced last year, I just hope HRNSW come through with the goods for the owners. Less owners = less trainers = less drivers.

G'day Eric

In fairness, HRNSW announced an immediate increase for all the $4500 races of $500. The bulk of career front racing presently is Tier 2, the $4500, so increasing them to $5000 was a fair and appropriate result. There is more to come in the new financial year

Regards

Mark Croatto

[Danno]

[

QUOTE=The Rainmaker;20246]Yes but where and what are the stakes increases?

It should be priority number one, just like Racing NSW made it 2 days after the announcement of the race fields legislation. But according to this:

Following on from the Race Fields Legislation High Court decision on 30 March 2012 the Board can now plan for the future with a far greater assurance of annual income streams, knowing that what has been quarantined
from previous Race Fields payments can be used to fund initiatives. In order to best communicate what the high court decision means to harness racing stakeholders, representatives from the Board and relative Executive Staff will be travelling to each Region as per the below timetable to discuss the issues listed:

Metropolitan Region Tabcorp Park Menangle Friday, 27 April @ 7:00pm
Hunter/North West Region Newcastle Paceway Monday, 30 April @ 7:00pm
Western Districts Bathurst Showground Tuesday, 1 May @ 7:00pm
South West & Riverina Wagga Showground Wednesday, 2 May @ 7:00pm

Funding Model
•
TAB Distribution and Race Fields
•
Training Centres & Tracks
Racecourse Development Fund/National Party Election Promise
•
Plant & Equipment Purchases
•
Building & Track Works
Race Dates 2012/13 and beyond
•
Principles
•
Aims
•
Penalty Thresholds
Race Programs/Handicapping
•
Industry feedback concerning programming and handicapping
User Pays Licences
•
The introduction of a lower flat fee and a per drive/per starter fee for insurance, including the introduction of a state-wide Sulky Fund.
NSW Breeders Challenge Nominators Bonuses
•
The introduction of the Bonuses and what it means to nominators.
General Discussion

It seems like HRNSW have other grand plans with that money.[/QUOTE]


G'day Eric,

it appears you may be on the money.

I attended the Newcastle version last night, there were some points reported by the board that were not surprising and as usual some that were.

The board members attending took the part of listeners/observers whilst CEO Sam delivered the presentation mostly, with support acts from others including Reid Saunders.

Some interesting aspects of the information session,

1) $10 million to be spent on training facilities adjacent Menangle Park.

2) new tracks at Bathurst and Wagga.

3) 700K extra pa for integrity.

4) 380K for marketing.

5) return to prizemoney levels we had about 12 months ago. ( not including Menangle NSWHRC meetings)

Most people appeared quite shocked about the prizemoney announcement to the point debate was stiffled/ diverted away from the fact $10M of industry money is earmarked for training facilties adjacent the cash strapped? NSWHRC's Menangle operation.

Cheers,
Dan

[Mark Croatto]

[

G'day Eric,

it appears you may be on the money.

I attended the Newcastle version last night, there were some points reported by the board that were not surprising and as usual some that were.

The board members attending took the part of listeners/observers whilst CEO Sam delivered the presentation mostly, with support acts from others including Reid Saunders.

Some interesting aspects of the information session,

1) $10 million to be spent on training facilities adjacent Menangle Park.

2) new tracks at Bathurst and Wagga.

3) 700K extra pa for integrity.

4) 380K for marketing.

5) return to prizemoney levels we had about 12 months ago. ( not including Menangle NSWHRC meetings)

Most people appeared quite shocked about the prizemoney announcement to the point debate was stiffled/ diverted away from the fact $10M of industry money is earmarked for training facilties adjacent the cash strapped? NSWHRC's Menangle operation.

Cheers,
Dan

Hi Dan

In respect to point 5 what were the actual figures? It's my understanding that $5.5k races go to $6k, $4.5k go to $5k (already delivered) whilst $3k remain as is.

Regards

Mark Croatto

[Danno]

G'day Mark,
no 6 K races as such 5.75K was announced.
4.5k go back to 5K as we had some time ago.
3k remain as such.
reduction in races in some areas/tracks, slight increases at some, overall reduction of races.

Sorry I can't be any more specific than that, I did not take notes... my memory is not infallible but it wont be very far off the mark either.

Cheers,
dan

[Mark Croatto]

G'day Mark,
no 6 K races as such 5.75K was announced.
4.5k go back to 5K as we had some time ago.
3k remain as such.
reduction in races in some areas/tracks, slight increases at some, overall reduction of races.

Sorry I can't be any more specific than that, I did not take notes... my memory is not infallible but it wont be very far off the mark either.

Cheers,
dan

Thanks Dan

Hmmmm, that's a disappointed. Personally I think we should be racing for at least $7k, $5750 is not realistic.

Regards

Mark

[mango]

Hi Dan

If they are to spend $10 million on training facilities at Menangle why did they buy land adjacent to the Goulburn track for training facilities, i mean they are only 1.5hrs apart so it seem's a waste of industries money to me and how many trainer's do they expect to relocate to n.s.w to warrant all this money being spent. Also i read that prizemoney will return to what we had 12 months ago, that sounds great but on the downside how many clubs in the country have had race meeting's reduced and funding slashed. It would be interesting to see what the percentage of the prizemoney increase's are in the country compared to Menangle prizemoney increase's and to also work out how much money they are saving by reducing race meeting's and cutting some funding to clubs.

[Thevoiceofreason]

Hi Dan

If they are to spend $10 million on training facilities at Menangle why did they buy land adjacent to the Goulburn track for training facilities, i mean they are only 1.5hrs apart so it seem's a waste of industries money to me and how many trainer's do they expect to relocate to n.s.w to warrant all this money being spent. Also i read that prizemoney will return to what we had 12 months ago, that sounds great but on the downside how many clubs in the country have had race meeting's reduced and funding slashed. It would be interesting to see what the percentage of the prizemoney increase's are in the country compared to Menangle prizemoney increase's and to also work out how much money they are saving by reducing race meeting's and cutting some funding to clubs.

With the greatest of respect the Menangle prize money increases will be much higher due in part to the funding available through the sale of Harold Park which was an asset of the NSW Harness Racing Club not HRNSW.

The interesting funding models will be city clubs other than NSW Harness racing club and if the suggested changes to Bankstown meetings is a guide there seems to be a line being drawn in the sand.

[Triple V]

One thing fellas, although the announcement as such is recent the proposed construction of Training/Permanent On-Track Stabling at Menangle is no Johnny-come-lately advent.
It has been in train for some time, having initially been earkmarked back when the Industry bodies were still in 'split mode' (wasn't that a spectacular success, well done OLGR, now renamed ILGA...alas a brick by any other name remains a brick only now the Pollies will have a measure of plausible deniability)
At the time Max Pool was in the chair at HRNSW because when I first heard about the permanent stabling construction I rang him to put my name down as I wanted to take a crack at training one for myself, and still do as a matter of fact. On that score, not sure where they're up to in that regard.
I hope that the spirit in which that stabling was meant...i.e. to enable a number of smaller trainers to train on course as opposed to having to buy & develop their own off course facilities...that as opposed to big Local stables as well as Interstate & NZ satellite stables coming in & taking up most if not all of the space.
Personally, I'd like to see similar construction occur at major regional tracks all over NSW.
I'm pretty sure that is the Board's plan.

[hillbillydeluxe]

Personally I was shocked to see increases in trainers % WHY?
from an owner who is trying to set up a country stable in NSW and prepared to employ people in the industry I am amazed that trainers quote $50-60 per day training. I was originally from the Harness Industry and due to the lack of prizemoney ventured over to the gallops where country trainers charge between $35 a day to $60 a day for prizemoney that is at least $9000 per race. reality check.
Why would you want to discourage someone like me who is prepared to put money into the game when realistically the owner is forgotten about. I have worked in the game so I understand how tough it can be but why keep a horse in work who has 50 starts for no wins? give him to someone for pleasure.
I am not a fan of kiwi horses being bought to plunder our own breeding industry but why put $10 million into menangle for who would prosper? the already big trainers there. spread it around.

[NormanS]

Back to the original statement of "Long overdue" and the response of looking after owners as well. Just did the quick numbers based on the teir 2 - $4500 per race to $5000 per race.
Race Value $4500 $5000
win 67% $3015 $3350
Trainer 5% $150.75 ----------
Driver 5% $150.75 ----------
Trainer 7.5% -------- $251.25
Driver 5% -------- $167.50

Owner $2713.50 $2931.25

The owner is in $ numbers getting more at this level is it enough to make a difference?

My opinion - the win $'s available to an owner should be enough to create an incentive to not keep a horse that has 50 starts for 0 wins and 0 places. The more win $'s should give the incentive to buy a better horse, thefore creating more competative racing (as the even better horse is going to go after the bigger money again) which should create better punting turnover due to fewer ultra odds on favourites. And (now off topics a touch) we should be back racing. Racing doesn't mean that the best horse wins (and doesn't exclude this either) but the best horse in the race on the day + the best drive in the race + the best training performance + the best tactics should win the race. (I hope this part makes sense).
And no, i'm not a big fan of the NSW interpretation of the COT declaration rule.

[clumsy]

Back to the original statement of "Long overdue" and the response of looking after owners as well. Just did the quick numbers based on the teir 2 - $4500 per race to $5000 per race.
Race Value $4500 $5000
win 67% $3015 $3350
Trainer 5% $150.75 ----------
Driver 5% $150.75 ----------
Trainer 7.5% -------- $251.25
Driver 5% -------- $167.50

Owner $2713.50 $2931.25

The owner is in $ numbers getting more at this level is it enough to make a difference?

My opinion - the win $'s available to an owner should be enough to create an incentive to not keep a horse that has 50 starts for 0 wins and 0 places. The more win $'s should give the incentive to buy a better horse, thefore creating more competative racing (as the even better horse is going to go after the bigger money again) which should create better punting turnover due to fewer ultra odds on favourites. And (now off topics a touch) we should be back racing. Racing doesn't mean that the best horse wins (and doesn't exclude this either) but the best horse in the race on the day + the best drive in the race + the best training performance + the best tactics should win the race. (I hope this part makes sense).
And no, i'm not a big fan of the NSW interpretation of the COT declaration rule.

All makes good sense, as for the horse with the no form surely we have no full time trainers in the industry that would continue to train such an animal. If all participants don't continue to improve the product we present to the punter then we will have no industry as the betting dollar is our major source of income.