2yo Fillies in NSW. The saga continues.

[Triple V]

After what I've seen today, many NSW trainers & owners really need to take a long, hard look at themselves too. I've repeatedly highlighted the lack of 2yo Fillies Only racing in this State, which runs at a deplorable high 70's low 20's split...and bashed admin. & co accordingly yet when such races do come along, at good tracks for good $$$ nobody supports them? Honestly. WTF??????
From today at Newcastle right through until next Monday at Bankstown by my count there are 17 2yo fillies that have been dropped in by their connections to race against the colts & geldings for prize money of ranging from 3k to 5k at tracks such as Newcastle, Penrith, Bathurst and Bankstown. Now there's a very nice 5.5k 2C0-2C1 Fillies Only race that has been set down for Menangle next Tuesday and currently it can only garner 2 noms???????
Honestly fellas, where are your heads at? Trainers bang on about how tough it is for a 2yo filly because they have to race the boys etc etc and yet when a race comes up where they get to face their own sex no bastard puts their hand up? Un-&%$#ing-believable. :mad:

[Lethal]

Are you really serious? It might be Fine for all trainers in the west/south Sydney basin, but for everyone else who would like to try out their youngsters a trip to Menangle is just out of the question, for many reasons. COST might be a starter.
Whilst the industry is beholden to those that control racing in N.S.W. and we all know WHO that is, the sport will never have any progressive ideas implemented. you can read it all here on this site, the implosion of Harness Racing.
I don't know if any of you follow the A League, but there has recently been a revolt, whereby the owners (those that PAY) have done just that and it seems they are on the right track.

[aussiebreno]

Penrith tonight, 2yo race was originally programmed 1x boys and 1x fillies race. So again not enough fillies nommed to fill that race. 3 have ended up in the final field. Don't know how many nommed all up but obviously between about 3 and 8.

Bankstown Mon night:
Pole horse has started all 3 race at Bankstown. So travel probably an issue.
The 4 horse...a visitor from Kilmore. Menangle Tuesday probably never on the agenda.
The 9 horse..Riverstone? I don't my geography well enough.

Only 9 starters. so only 9 noms. Only 3 fillies nommed/starting.

To me this doesn't indicate trainers/owners aren't putting their hand up for 2yo fillies races...just that there are no 2yo fillies to fill such races.

[Triple V]

G'day Breno,
That's what ticked me off though, there were in fact more than enough.
There were no fewer than 17 x 2yo fillies that had accepted to race between Thursday (yesterday) & Monday of next week and all within a few hours drive of Menangle.
A mate of mine made a good point to me yesterday that had to do with differentials in prizemoney on offer. I'd have thought the Fillies Only aspect of that race alone would have been enough of a draw + it being a 5.5k 2C0-2C1 vs the 3k 2R0 races... but aparently not. What am I missing here?
No doubt that's the way some see it, they'll travel if the $ differential is big enough...however the flipside of not travelling is having to face up to the colts & geldings on equal terms. Again, what am I missing there?
For mine one serves to cancel out the other in most instances and it makes no sense to me at all that a race like that at Menangle gets only 2 noms. Until such time as we move to centralised programming here in NSW this crap will no doubt continue unabated.
Trainers & Owners scream about a lack of racing opportunities for 2yo fillies in this State (and I've banged on about it more than most) yet they clearly don't support 2yo Fillies Only races when they are carded. That's a shocker. Talk about running with the Fox and hunting with the Hounds.

[Danno]

G'day Breno,
That's what ticked me off though, there were in fact more than enough.
There were no fewer than 17 x 2yo fillies that had accepted to race between Thursday (yesterday) & Monday of next week and all within a few hours drive of Menangle.
A mate of mine made a good point to me yesterday that had to do with differentials in prizemoney on offer. I'd have thought the Fillies Only aspect of that race alone would have been enough of a draw + it being a 5.5k 2C0-2C1 vs the 3k 2R0 races... but aparently not. What am I missing here?
No doubt that's the way some see it, they'll travel if the $ differential is big enough...however the flipside of not travelling is having to face up to the colts & geldings on equal terms. Again, what am I missing there?
For mine one serves to cancel out the other in most instances and it makes no sense to me at all that a race like that at Menangle gets only 2 noms. Until such time as we move to centralised programming here in NSW this crap will no doubt continue unabated.
Trainers & Owners scream about a lack of racing opportunities for 2yo fillies in this State (and I've banged on about it more than most) yet they clearly don't support 2yo Fillies Only races when they are carded. That's a shocker. Talk about running with the Fox and hunting with the Hounds.

I havent looked at it Jamie but you may want to check the trainers status of some of the fillies you are talking about...the reasons may be a combination of distance and work commitiments for some of the trainers.
Cheers,
Dan

[dizzy]

No doubt there are a multitude of reasons for trainers nominating where they have and many have already been mentioned. But as you don't train Jamie here is one I doubt you have considered. I haven't looked at any of the fields so I'm not casting aspertions on the ability of any of the fillies involved but many young and/or inexperienced horses need to be treated as young children are these days in many sports, not only do they need to be matched with children of similar ability but they need the playing field cut down in size until they gain confidence in the game.

[Triple V]

Of course, excuses excuses excuses. As you don't train? Jesus wept. Dot, in your effort to give me a pay there you've once again you've gone zoooooooooooming on by the point & shot off on a nice old tangent to boot. The point of this and previous threads to the same effect, the fact of the matter is....that if the Trainers do not support these 2yo Fillies Only races when carded then in the future they will not be programmed and in the future they will not be programmed because, that's right...you guessed it, Trainers do not support them. Is it really that difficult a concept for you to grasp? As for the rest of that, it's a 2C0-2C1 for crying out loud. That's hardly what anyone could call dropping a baby into the deep end of the pool.

[Lethal]

Wow!
Where are all these owners willing to pay floating fees of up to $150 and other costs, just to race against (most probably) the best young fillies in NSW. and most probably not be able to be on course to watch them race?.
It really is all about the ability to place your horse where it is best suited, not just to supply numbers for the TAB or HRNSW and to consider the ownership that an R0 win at places like Muswellbrook will have for that owner and his BABY.
This will not happen winning a race anywhere, especially with 2 year olds, except at home.

[Triple V]

Not quite. There were only 2 noms for a 2C0-2C1 Fillies Only event Lee. That's hardly a swathe of the best young fillies in NSW. Trainers and Owners can't have their cake and eat it too. They quite rightly moan when these races aren't carded and yet when they are... they don't nominate????.

[Triple V]

A 15k NSW Breeders Challenge 2yo Fillies Only race that's carded for Tamworth got only 4 nominations.
So what's the excuse for that Dot? Dan?
For mine, that's just apathy, nothing more, nothing less. A shocker. They can't be helped.

[dizzy]

I'm not missing the point at all Jamie, connections obviously don't view the Menangle race as suitable for either their fillies or personal circumstances so they haven't nominated. I have indicated that amongst other reasons some owners may have avoided Menangle as they may consider the track unsuitable for their young fillies at this stage of their career. Where is the 2yo filly your paying for Jamie if you are so desperate to support these races?

I agree if they aren't supported then it is hard to justify programming them. If the message from connections is "not at menangle" then try programming elsewhere. Owners also need to be confident that there will be programming to suit these fillies beyond the 2CO stage, one win in a career doesn't go close to covering the costs of achieving it


As for Tamworth 15k is good prizemoney but only one horse wins the lions share. You are talking about a venue located on the edge of the harness racing envelope in this state which involves considerable travelling for many connections and they have excercised their right not to nominate. Obviously 4 saw it as a good deal for them.

[Lethal]

It is there, right in front of you TAMWORTH 2yo. This is more a benefit for one trainer rather than a race.
Why on earth would a passionate owner agree with his trainer to load up his only 2yo to participate in this race, only to incur a large floating cost plus other exe's all while he/she/them are at work.
WHAT FUN!

[Danno]

A 15k NSW Breeders Challenge 2yo Fillies Only race that's carded for Tamworth got only 4 nominations.
So what's the excuse for that Dot? Dan?
For mine, that's just apathy, nothing more, nothing less. A shocker. They can't be helped.

Geez Jamie,
you've backed the rest of us into a corner! The only solution I think, is for you to get that trainer's licence you've been thinking about for the last twenty or so years, keep a couple that you bred rather than accepting the paltry offerings at the yearling sales and show all us idiots how it's done!!!

once again Jamie you win by the fact you don't accept anything anyone else has to say unless they agree with you!

Congratulations!!!

[Triple V]

I'm not missing the point at all Jamie, connections obviously don't view the Menangle race as suitable for either their fillies or personal circumstances so they haven't nominated. I have indicated that amongst other reasons some owners may have avoided Menangle as they may consider the track unsuitable for their young fillies at this stage of their career. Where is the 2yo filly your paying for Jamie if you are so desperate to support these races?

I agree if they aren't supported then it is hard to justify programming them. If the message from connections is "not at menangle" then try programming elsewhere. Owners also need to be confident that there will be programming to suit these fillies beyond the 2CO stage, one win in a career doesn't go close to covering the costs of achieving it


As for Tamworth 15k is good prizemoney but only one horse wins the lions share. You are talking about a venue located on the edge of the harness racing envelope in this state which involves considerable travelling for many connections and they have excercised their right not to nominate. Obviously 4 saw it as a good deal for them.

[VVV] What really bugs me with the way things are programming wise at present Dot is that essentially the very worst thing a moderate 2yo filly can do for her Owner/s is win a race early in the season. From that point onward, because so many of these races are open to both sexes and not PDS, she'll give the front to the non-winning colts & geldings. Win one & for the season she's pretty much done. You may as well turn them out. There has to be a better way.

[Triple V]

Geez Jamie,
you've backed the rest of us into a corner! The only solution I think, is for you to get that trainer's licence you've been thinking about for the last twenty or so years, keep a couple that you bred rather than accepting the paltry offerings at the yearling sales and show all us idiots how it's done!!!

once again Jamie you win by the fact you don't accept anything anyone else has to say unless they agree with you!

Congratulations!!!


[VVV] Zooming right past the initial point there Dan. Can you guys not see that if these races are not supported then they will continue not to be carded? That is in fact where we are at right now, as I've highlight there's a high 70's early 20's split against Fillies Only races in NSW and unless this is highlighted and moves are made from both sides to get it fixed then nothing changes and the same old bullshit routine continues unabated.
It's a two way street...Clubs & HRNSW should be ashamed of the number of Fillies Only races that they card and the Trainers & Owners should be ashamed for not supporting the ones that are carded. I've had a serious crack at a number of Clubs and at HRNSW to take a look at ways to rectify this...there's a level of lip service given to it which I expected but from some quarters there is also a genuine attempt to listen and at least try to resolve the disparity that exists and to be frank has existed to varying degrees since as far back as I can rememeber.
It does no good for Clubs, HRNSW and Trainers/Owners to keep coming up with the same old Chestnuts by way of excuses. There has to be a better way.
In the end, all this stuff does is add weight to the argument for Centralised Programming...for taking that role out of the hands of the Clubs and into the hands of HRNSW lock, stock and barrel and that resulting in races being carded in such a way that with certain ages/grades of horse you either travel to where it is being held, or you don't race. It will end up as simple as that.
Again, before you launch into another shoot the messenger rant, ideally that's not what I want to see either...but where's the alternative? For mine, right now, it seems to be by far the lesser of two evils.

[Danno]

Jamie, I don't think you can expect people to take their 2YO fillies or colts to the races if they aren't ready, don't need another run this week, have had enough this prep or any other of a multitude of reasons. Training horses and 2yo's in particular is a balancing act if you want to be a responsible trainer and allow the horse to reach it's full potential, most fair dinkum trainers prefer to err on the side of caution... these are not excuses Jamie but valid reasons for why there may have been 17 horses one week and only 4 the next.

There is never a guarantee that when a club programmes any class of race it will garner sufficient nominations. In particular programming 2yo's let alone 2yo fillies races have always struggled to "stand up".

The problem is the size of the pool of available horses, not that silly connections don't nominate their horses when they are ready!

Others on this thread have been trying to show why these races have'nt stood up from an owner/trainers persective but you seem to choose to call all of this "excuses", that's why the challenge about actually training one or two...then you might see it's not just excuses.

[dizzy]

Jamie I don't know what the answer is, maybe programming penalty heats into final series around Bathurst, Young and Wagga. These tracks coincide with the areas that most of the foal crop is born and raised and I would assume the costs of horse keeping/training are less then in the metro area. Yes these would largely be low stakes races but there should be more opportunites to earn something. Fortunately peoples interest in racing isn't solely for profitability on earnings, if it were then 99% of us wouldn't be in it. Low stakes at least return something while we all wait for the "good one"

Is PDS the answer? Maybe but then Menangle claim that their most successful barriers are 4-6 , though I think their data is flawed.

[Triple V]

Jamie I don't know what the answer is, maybe programming penalty heats into final series around Bathurst, Young and Wagga. These tracks coincide with the areas that most of the foal crop is born and raised and I would assume the costs of horse keeping/training are less then in the metro area. Yes these would largely be low stakes races but there should be more opportunites to earn something. Fortunately peoples interest in racing isn't solely for profitability on earnings, if it were then 99% of us wouldn't be in it. Low stakes at least return something while we all wait for the "good one"

Is PDS the answer? Maybe but then Menangle claim that their most successful barriers are 4-6 , though I think their data is flawed.

[VVV] G'day Dot,
Along those Heats & Finals lines, maybe a 2yo Fillies extension of the existing program/s already in place for the Country tracks Heats & Menangle Finals for C0's, C1's, C2's etc ? ...and further still, perhaps putting a Post Code condition on them too, as in 2yo Fillies Only...trained outside of the Sydney Metro area/200km from Menangle... or whatever?
Obviously, for whatever reason/s, most of them I still suspect not particularly good ones in the overall scheme of things but nonetheless, there are various reasons that are stopping these Fillies from being nominated to even a bread and butter 2C0-2C1 Fillies Only at Menangle like the one that received a paltry 2 noms last week. Surely something along those lines would be more attractive?
I got along to talk to the fellas at Menangle a month or so back and they were quite happy to back 2yo fillies races there in the same way that they originally backed the Trotters out there in so far as going forward with less than full fields (in this case, a proposed 6 noms)...in order to foster the division for the longer term. Paul Fitzpatrick was also there and he was speaking to another matter of concern to him, the problems of getting older horses through their M0's & how that was being exacerbated by some M0 race being written with AE Claimers to $X conditions added. When he saw the 2yo fillies only racing opportunity stats he was also surprised, said he knew that it wasn't good but didn't think it was as bad as that. He has been around a long while and trained a lot of horses in a whole host of different age & sex divisons and that was his off the cuff reaction. That just served to re-affirm to me that there has to be a better way than the present approach.
It seems like another lifetime ago that Garry Reid and myself were on the Committee of the NSWSBA & the bozos lined up in droves, including quite inexplicably some of the Members and would you believe some of the Committee, to appose our motion for the equalisation of the Finals Prizemoney for the then NSWSS. At the time, the 2yo & 3yo colts & geldings raced for twice the $$$ on offer for the respective fillies divisions. The fillies and for that matter mares discrimination here in NSW dates at least as far back as that & more & although the $ was levelled up as it should always have been (the neysayers didn't have a leg to stand on), reasonable racing opportunities against their own sex still remains the family shame, NSW Harness Racing's answer to a demented one eyed cousin kept locked up in the attic & fed on fish heads & dog kibble...the one that everyone's well aware of but nobody ever talks about.

[Triple V]

jamie, i don't think you can expect people to take their 2yo fillies or colts to the races if they aren't ready, don't need another run this week, have had enough this prep or any other of a multitude of reasons.
[vvv] i'm not and have not suggested that anyone race before they're ready however apparently 17 of them were ready to race over a period of just 4 days.

training horses and 2yo's in particular is a balancing act if you want to be a responsible trainer and allow the horse to reach it's full potential, most fair dinkum trainers prefer to err on the side of caution... These are not excuses jamie but valid reasons for why there may have been 17 horses one week and only 4 the next.
[vvv] agreed however, further to the above, 17 2yo fillies dropped in to race the c2yo olts & geldings over a period of 4 days, on the 5th day just 2 nominated to race their own sex for $ that were in excess of that, and in some cases 2k+ in excess of, that which the majority actually raced/will race for. None of that makes any sense at all to me.

there is never a guarantee that when a club programmes any class of race it will garner sufficient nominations. In particular programming 2yo's let alone 2yo fillies races have always struggled to "stand up".
[vvv] true, so very true. The reason so many races in certain divisions struggle to stand up is because, unlike wa. Vic, qld, tas etc, here in nsw we suffer from an everyone's doing their own thing/write the races and hope/that's what we always do come historical approach to race programming. centralised programming will fix that in one go and it will not only do so with the 2yo fillies division but with all of the age/class divisions that currently suffer from sporadic noms and so minimal programming in direct response.

the problem is the size of the pool of available horses, not that silly connections don't nominate their horses when they are ready!
[vvv] centralised programming will fix that in one go too. Again, 17 were ready to race in a period of 4 days. Add the 2 that nominated and with 19 in to go...instead somewhere along the way in that 4-5 day period there could well have been 2 x 2yo fillies races with all but full fields in both.

others on this thread have been trying to show why these races have'nt stood up from an owner/trainers persective but you seem to choose to call all of this "excuses", that's why the challenge about actually training one or two...then you might see it's not just excuses.
[vvv] in this industry there are invariably all manner of reasons offered up as to why things can't be done, why they will not work, why we should go with status quo ect. And there's invariably one or two good reasons why something should be done. Administration/race clubs should wear their fair share of the blame as far as the lack of reasonable racing opportunities for 2yo fillies, and for that matter 3yo fillies and mares...but it is not a one way street. Trainers and owners can't have their cake and eat it to. I'll poke shit at hrnsw and hra until the cows come home, there are a good many areas where trucksloads of same are well & truly their due...but the general apathay and great reluctance to change/take a more pragmatic view on behalf of trainers & owners must also wear it's fair share.



vvv

[Danno]

Jamie,
there's a thing called EMPATHY,if there was a book on it that i could refer you to I'd be very pleased to do that but I learnt empathy from my parents and as such, being a "baby boomer" trusted what I was taught by my elders rather than challenging the same and then expecting to see a nationally funded multi faceted research programme designed primarily to default said information on empathy so as to further challenge anything my parents or any other moronic person may have uttered so I could "make up my own mind".

I'm certain you can find some information on the internet about empathy, but I'm uncertain if the translation on the net will actually mean anything to you.
Cheers,
Dan

[Lethal]

You don't seem to get it.
If you want all NSW 2yolds to race at Menangle whenever the Club wish to programme races to suit them and the TAB then the answer is simple!
Make the experience at the least revenue neutral by subsidising heavy float rebates, similar to Penrith a few years ago, where it was calculated on a radius from the track.
Let's just think for a minute.
If you can win a trial at,say, Maitland, but not run time, why would you then be prepared to outlay huge costs just TO MAKE UP NUMBERS.
Being able to place a horse in a suitable race that, at the worst you can run a tote, surely shows that your first priority is your owner, not the club nor the TAB even more with 2yo.

[Triple V]

Jamie,
there's a thing called EMPATHY,if there was a book on it that i could refer you to I'd be very pleased to do that but I learnt empathy from my parents and as such, being a "baby boomer" trusted what I was taught by my elders rather than challenging the same and then expecting to see a nationally funded multi faceted research programme designed primarily to default said information on empathy so as to further challenge anything my parents or any other moronic person may have uttered so I could "make up my own mind".

I'm certain you can find some information on the internet about empathy, but I'm uncertain if the translation on the net will actually mean anything to you.
Cheers,
Dan

[VVV] G'day Dan,
When I read that it immediately translates to 'touchy feely speak' for... geeze, it looks like it's going to be pretty hard to make some changes that will ultimately be for the greater good so instead of inconveniencing some people along the way how about we just sit on our hands do nothing?
You and I and the proverbial gatepost knows that the current situation is periodically dysfunctional and in the longer term, completely untenable. There has to be a better way.
Btw Dan, on the subject of empathy...I mentioned in a reply to you that I am certain the fix is in as far as who will get what of the proposed on-course stabling at the various regional centres & that the smaller stables and 1-2 horse trainers are going to meet with a shut out as sure as the sun rises in the East and sets in the West.
In response, for someone with so much concern for the well-being of your fellow participants, not so much as a word ? That's an example of a pressing issue, one that is at least as important if not moreso right now than the 2yo fillies thing and one that, as I said before, desperately needs clubbing to death before it grows wings and flies...and still, not a word? If I didn't give a toss about others, would I bother highlighting the on-course stabling issue and in doing so get myself offside with the driving force/s behind that plan? Give me a break.
There's the right thing to do, the wrong thing to do & then there's what I understand to be that which various Industry administrative persons have in mind, which is an unfortunate mixture of both. Sitting back and doing nothing is exactly what they're banking on participants doing because that bolsters their case for change, much of which may not be palatable to yourself and many others. It's better to become part of the discussion early and as much as possible steer it in the right or best direction possible. Otherwise it will all be thrust upon you, the good, the bad and the ugly aspects.

[Triple V]

You don't seem to get it.
If you want all NSW 2yolds to race at Menangle whenever the Club wish to programme races to suit them and the TAB then the answer is simple!
Make the experience at the least revenue neutral by subsidising heavy float rebates, similar to Penrith a few years ago, where it was calculated on a radius from the track.
Let's just think for a minute.
If you can win a trial at,say, Maitland, but not run time, why would you then be prepared to outlay huge costs just TO MAKE UP NUMBERS.
Being able to place a horse in a suitable race that, at the worst you can run a tote, surely shows that your first priority is your owner, not the club nor the TAB even more with 2yo.

[VVV] G'day Lee,
It's exactly those preconceived notions that sees the Industry with feet of clay whenever handicapping and programming issues are raised. This thread and previous versions thereof is about/has been about the lack of 2yo Fillies Only racing opportunities in NSW. I don't care where they get to race just so long as they get to race their own sex somewhere, for reasonable $ and on a regular basis. For the particular race in question there were TWO (2) nominations Lee. The others would indeed have been making up the numbers but ONLY insofar as that race going ahead. The Menangle race is in question here for the simple reason that in much the same fashion as they did with the Trotters ranks not many years ago, the NSWHRC has agreed to seek/has sought an undertaking/dispensation from HRNSW in order to go ahead with 2yo Fillies Only races where a minimum of six (6) nominations are received (note...nominations, not final acceptances), this in order to do their bit and be seen to be doing their bit to foster/bolster the ranks of a largely neglected division and also as a longer term service to the Breeding Industry in this State. Part of the thinking there also being that ultimately a good % of those raced & hopefully winning fillies will become NSW based broodmares which will in turn bolster the horse numbers in this State...and around and around it goes.
Dot raised the subject of a Heats & Finals approach and in terms of supporting the Country based fillies and encouraging them to come to Menangle & I can't see any reason why the 2yo fillies couldn't be part of the program set down for Heats & Finals for the C0's-1's-2's-3's etc which is aimed at encouraging them to do the same. Postcode the noms by all means, make sure they're trained from a Country base for the 28 days prior or whatever and fire away. If that's what it takes, go for gold. I don't care how it gets done but it needs to get done and it needs to get done yesterday.

[Triple V]

This coming Friday night (11th May) @ Menangle.

1 Mile, 2yo PBD/2C/PBDS for 22k, non winners of a race more than $12,000 this season.
4 nominations. Race duly scrapped.

1 Mile, 3yo PBD/3C Fillies Only for 22k, non winners of a race more than $12,000 this season. 7 straight noms + 1 also eng. Penrith. Race just scrapes by for the go ahead.

:confused::confused::confused::confused::confused: What do they need to nom for these races? Dancing Girls scattering Rose Petals at their feet as they walk? Fair dinkum.

[Danno]

[QUOTE=Triple V;20434][VVV] G'day Dan,
When I read that it immediately translates to 'touchy feely speak' for... geeze, it looks like it's going to be pretty hard to make some changes that will ultimately be for the greater good so instead of inconveniencing some people along the way how about we just sit on our hands do nothing?



Jamie,
can I respectfully suggest you consult your dictionary for "empathy", on this particular thread people have been trying to get you to see the position of others who may or may not choose to nominate their 2yo fillies to, apparently no avail.

[Triple V]

G'day Dan,
In the big scheme of things empathy or that which you obviously see as lackthereof is probably not what you should be worried about.
Apathy is and has always been the Industry's biggest enemy and it will be very soon once again used against us.
For instance, in the not too distant future it's evens into tomato sauce there will be some Trainers, especially small team, part-time & country based ones, who scream long and loud when Centralised Programming is finally introduced here in NSW and they're left with a choice to either go racing wherever the events for their horses are programmed during that week...or otherwise have their horse/s stay at home in the barn until one closer to home comes along.
They'll once again scream long and loud and rightly so AFTER the shut out of on-course training/stabling becomes apparent by way of bigger local, interstate and trans Tasman operations monopolising all of the available space.
Both these things are real issues and both already in train and as sure as night follows day both of them WILL happen, it is only a matter of time.
Centralised Programming is one that I happen to agree with, I'm looking forward to it especially so from the perspective of fillies & mares racing, because I think it will ultimately benefit the majority of the Industry...however I am also aware that there'll be some that it will not suit and there will be some who will down right despise it.
The expected on course stabling shut out, of course I absolutely abhore the very real prospect of that happening...however you watch & wait.
As per usual nobody with any sort of a stake in it and especially so an opposing view will do a damned thing until it is all over bar the shouting and they're in a position where they can't do a damned thing to change it.
The smoke and mirrors and slight of hand that has become attached to the subject of on-course training/stabling in particular...it has got to be seen and heard to be believed. So then, I've lifted the sheet of corrugated iron up on that one...who's going to be there to stomp on the greeblies as they try to run away?

[dizzy]

A small correction for you Jamie-I did suggest heat and finals for 2yo fillies in the country but I did not ,or did not intend to, suggest that the finals should be held at menangle

[Lethal]

There you go again. I'm wondering if you are just trying to wind everyone up?
Forcing trainers to travel ANYWHERE in NSW.! Who do think pays? THE OWNERS. It is plainly obvious that you are NOT one these rare breeds, because if you were you would be horrified at the TRUE cost of floating to racetracks outside your domicile, especially if you only take one (2yo for instance who often need a travelling companion, thereby increasing cost).
It won't be the trainers screaming, it will be the owners after receiving their last account. The trainers will scream later, after the owner switches their horse to a BIG BARN trainer, having done all the early work with the horse.
I'm not sure why you think big barn training is the be all. Maybe you are not aware of the large number of well bred but underperformed and chronically lame horses, that historically were switched to trainers with outside boxes and paddocks that literally grew another leg.
Why would you want to go big barn when gallops trainers are spending huge amounts to exit big barns and set up farms to replicate paddock training. It's a step backwards as has already been proven by winners of VIC. metro/country NSW.metro/country HR premierships.

[Triple V]

Hey Lee, if you try to cram any more words into my mouth I will be a fair chance to choke. Add that to the shoot the old messenger routine & you're two for two. Can you point to so much as a single instance of me saying that I thought big barn training is the be all, end all? Where on Earth did that one come from? No me. Never, ever said that, not even hinted at it. Don't believe it to be true in all instances, never have.
Rather, I've repeatedly pointed out that unless small numbers, part-time and country based Trainers who want to secure space in on-course training/stabling facilities get off their cans and let it be known that not only do they want space to be made available for them but they expect space to be made available for them....then the big barns routine will be left to rule the waves. Any chance you could haul yourself back from that flight of fancy above? If you had the chance would you like to train/stable one or two on-course at one of the proposed regional centres or at Menangle?

[Triple V]

A small correction for you Jamie-I did suggest heat and finals for 2yo fillies in the country but I did not ,or did not intend to, suggest that the finals should be held at menangle

[VVV] The $$$ could be made worthwhile for a Country Heats/Menangle Finals scenario. Where else do you expect the requisite kanga to come from Dot? and by kanga I'm talking 8k-10k country venue Heats leading into 20k-25k Finals or something in that range.
Let's be a bit realistic. What other Club in NSW is presently in a position to be able to pony up those kinds of dollars? The wiggle room's diminishing rapidly huh? Post Code conditions to keep Metro based horses out, good $$$ on offer for a series of Country Heats culimating in a very good $$$ Menangle Final so the travel would be worth it, same Heat/Final for a single penalty scenario they're using for the C0's-1's-2's-3's etc.
Ahhhh...how remiss of me. Jupiter won't be aligned with Mars anytime soon huh? Bugger...you know, for a moment there I thought we almost had it across the line. :rolleyes:
Btw, Wally and Dewsbury told me to tell you to stop using their hoof dressing. :p

[Lethal]

Jamie
You still will not address the issue of cost for everyone that trains outside a reasonable radius of Menangle.
To answer your question about moving to a barn at Menangle. I can't think of one reason why a country/provincial trainer would contemplate giving up an ideal training/living environment to move to a big barn comlex at Menangle. Who's putting up the dollars. It sounds like you, with all your available horses are looking for a trainer and you are going to bankroll him/her.
GOOD LUCK

[dizzy]

Jamie you are behind the times. Wally is no longer at Bankstown and I will ask Peter to verify what you claim he has said to you. You may see it as amusing but your name dropping tactics do become quite tiresome. How about remaining on topic. It wasn't my suggestion that the 2yo fillies heats and finals be such a "wealthy" event but that they be programmed on a local level to minimise costs. In time it may grow into more but in reality only the winner with the current prizemoney distributions is in a position to come out ahead finacially when anyone has to travel long distances to race. That will remain a fact unless there are changes to prizemoney distribution or travel subsidies that reflect travel distances.

[Danno]

G'day Dan,
In the big scheme of things empathy or that which you obviously see as lackthereof is probably not what you should be worried about.
Apathy is and has always been the Industry's biggest enemy and it will be very soon once again used against us.
For instance, in the not too distant future it's evens into tomato sauce there will be some Trainers, especially small team, part-time & country based ones, who scream long and loud when Centralised Programming is finally introduced here in NSW and they're left with a choice to either go racing wherever the events for their horses are programmed during that week...or otherwise have their horse/s stay at home in the barn until one closer to home comes along.
They'll once again scream long and loud and rightly so AFTER the shut out of on-course training/stabling becomes apparent by way of bigger local, interstate and trans Tasman operations monopolising all of the available space.
Both these things are real issues and both already in train and as sure as night follows day both of them WILL happen, it is only a matter of time.
Centralised Programming is one that I happen to agree with, I'm looking forward to it especially so from the perspective of fillies & mares racing, because I think it will ultimately benefit the majority of the Industry...however I am also aware that there'll be some that it will not suit and there will be some who will down right despise it.
The expected on course stabling shut out, of course I absolutely abhore the very real prospect of that happening...however you watch & wait.
As per usual nobody with any sort of a stake in it and especially so an opposing view will do a damned thing until it is all over bar the shouting and they're in a position where they can't do a damned thing to change it.
The smoke and mirrors and slight of hand that has become attached to the subject of on-course training/stabling in particular...it has got to be seen and heard to be believed. So then, I've lifted the sheet of corrugated iron up on that one...who's going to be there to stomp on the greeblies as they try to run away?

Jamie,
this thread is getting considerably off the original topic, thanks for the lifting of said corrugated iron and I may well be a complete and utter fool but if you run the numbers on current Metro meetings you wouldn't get 4 races let alone 8 or nine if you left out the travellers, don't get me wrong I hear the message I just think thats a possibility in ten years but not imminent. Having said that I would hope ( as far as know ) a world first as such in restriction of trade would crumble at any decent legal challenge.

Getting back to the subject on 2yo fillies races, yes they need to be supported by noms but you can't expect people to "throw in" their babies for a run to prop field up, there is no way in the bloody world I would do it, and some might, but the majority of trainers are more concerned about the horses' future to do that.

cheers,
Dan

[Triple V]

?????????Good God. I give up Dot, I give up. You've battered me into submission. I have a bit of joke with you and indicate the same and what happens? You go all bitter and twisted like you've been force fed half a grapefruit. Fair dinkum. Lucky that I didn't mention the blue lotion. :rolleyes:

[Triple V]

Jamie,
this thread is getting considerably off the original topic, thanks for the lifting of said corrugated iron and I may well be a complete and utter fool but if you run the numbers on current Metro meetings you wouldn't get 4 races let alone 8 or nine if you left out the travellers, don't get me wrong I hear the message I just think thats a possibility in ten years but not imminent. Having said that I would hope ( as far as know ) a world first as such in restriction of trade would crumble at any decent legal challenge.

Getting back to the subject on 2yo fillies races, yes they need to be supported by noms but you can't expect people to "throw in" their babies for a run to prop field up, there is no way in the bloody world I would do it, and some might, but the majority of trainers are more concerned about the horses' future to do that.

cheers,
Dan

[VVV] G'day Dan,
Rightly or wrongly depending on your point of view, it's all going to happen and sooner rather than later too...you can bet your house on it. That's the way the powers that be want to play it. It'll fix some things that have long needed fixing and it'll bugger other things, probably not intentionally, but it will. The 2yo fillies thing will continue to be a bone of contention, I seriously doubt it will ever be what either of us think that it should be, the 3yo fillies cop it even worse and 4yo & older mares have more chance of getting hit by lightning than getting regular starts against their own sex. That doesn't mean we should throw it into the too hard basket however. We'll agree to disagree huh? regards Jaimie

[clumsy]

Alabar Breeders Challange at Young next Friday has 11 noms. for the fillies division and 15 for the colts and geldings,these are $15000 races.

[aussiebreno]

Alabar Breeders Challange at Young next Friday has 11 noms. for the fillies division and 15 for the colts and geldings,these are $15000 races.
And then 2x 3yos carded for Leeton on Sat night. Doubt both will stand up. Although without seeing Young noms my guess is many will be visitors.

[Triple V]

jamie
you still will not address the issue of cost for everyone that trains outside a reasonable radius of menangle.
[vvv] well lee, perhaps cost is not the factor you seem to think it is because they seem to be able to get there with every other grade of horse except the 2yos and in particular 2yo fillies. Riddle me that, batman. I'm buggered if i know the answer.
even now, this coming friday...with a 22k metro grade 2yo race that has the top end horses intentionally conditioned out and all the added fun of the fair by way of pdc's and pds'..they only get 4 noms and the race gets canned.
so far by way of excuses from various people there has been...
'they're not ready (17 2yo fillies accepted to race against the colts & geldings over the preceeding 4 days so i assume that they must have been ready) ;

'there can only be one winner (there's a revelation if ever there was one, jesus wept);

'only making up the numbers' (there were 2 noms in the race in question);

'the costs vs prizemoney doesn't justify it ' (arguably applicable to a 5.5k race perhaps but what's the excuse for a 15k race at tamworth or the abovementioned 22k race at menangle????)

...and the list goes on and on & each time when one gets pinned down the goal posts are moved and it's something else that's stopping them from coming. one by one however those excuses are exposed because one by one race conditions are written & prizemoney is made available that is too good to ignore...but ignore it they do.

to answer your question about moving to a barn at menangle. I can't think of one reason why a country/provincial trainer would contemplate giving up an ideal training/living environment to move to a big barn comlex at menangle. Who's putting up the dollars. It sounds like you, with all your available horses are looking for a trainer and you are going to bankroll him/her.
Good luck.
[vvv] ground control to major tom. Ground control to major tom.
fair dinkum lee, do you actually read what i post in any replies to you or do you prefer to just read stuff into what i post?
nobody's being asked or urged to move specifically to menangle...jesus wept. Rather, a number of people including myself are concerned that when the on-course stabling set to be built at each of the proposed regional centres...menangle, goulburn, newcastle, bathurst, wagga etc. ...the space in those stables will have already been taken up largely or completly by large local, interstate and trans tasman operations & so aspiring local trainers with the 1-2-3 horse stables and especially those who are starting off and so in most cases cannot afford to set up their own facilities (which, as i stated earlier was the very specific, stated and initial intention of these proposed on course training/stabling facilities) will be unlikely to get a look in. I don't know how much clearer i can make it.


vvv

[Triple V]

Alabar Breeders Challange at Young next Friday has 11 noms. for the fillies division and 15 for the colts and geldings,these are $15000 races.

[VVV] Perhaps there is some light at the end of the tunnel?

[dizzy]

Jamie regardless of what you call excuses it will always ultimately be the choice of connections as to where they nominate.

As to training centres do you believe it is in trainers and clubs best interests that these be co located?
From my experience training in at a venue that is practically co located the advantages are;
Reduced costs if you are racing at the same location.

The disadvantage is unless the racetrack and training facilities can operate autonomously the requirements of each impact negatively on each other. The need of trainers to utilise the track daily impacts on the clubs ability to use their facility to generate other income and the clubs need to generate income results in the track being closed inconvienicing trainers.

[Triple V]

[QUOTE=dizzy;20564]Jamie regardless of what you call excuses it will always ultimately be the choice of connections as to where they nominate.
[VVV] G'day Dot,
As far as I'm aware that aspect has never been in question. What I was trying to get across is that Centralised Programming will fix this but at the same time it will see some amongst us with a choice not to have a choice...as in it will basically be an either 'race at X with your 2yo filly (or whatever) or stay at home in the barn' scenario. That being said, it will still prove to be in the best interests of the majority because it will produce more consistent/regular/predictable programs that I believe will see far, far fewer races falling over due to insufficient noms. Net result is some progress and for the better.

As to training centres do you believe it is in trainers and clubs best interests that these be co located?
[VVV] Yes I think all up it is in their respective best interests, perhaps a little moreso in the direction of the Clubs, because the on-course stabling/training will hopefully ensure each them a basic pool of horses to work with, a pool that is located right on their doorstep and from which you'd expect they'll ultimately draw a large % of their noms/race fields.

From my experience training in at a venue that is practically co located the advantages are;
Reduced costs if you are racing at the same location.
[VVV] Certainly, reduced costs to the Industy as a whole and also as I mentioned above, pools of horses located on the doorstep. Both highly desirable you'd have to think.

The disadvantage is unless the racetrack and training facilities can operate autonomously the requirements of each impact negatively on each other. The need of trainers to utilise the track daily impacts on the clubs ability to use their facility to generate other income and the clubs need to generate income results in the track being closed inconvienicing trainers.
[VVV]That might take some sorting out to begin with. I'm guessing the obvious is Race Day training activities that would have to be done & dusted early but for the most part most of them are anyway, at least from what I've seen. Other than that...dunno? It's certainly not a deal breaker. I'm sure the on-course stables and the various tracks would come to a mutally beneficial arrangement...after all, that is exactly what on-course stabling/training is meant to produce. I guess it would be along the lines of our local public pool. There'd be this or that on certain days and for others there'd be no doing whatever before or after this time or that in the morning or in the arvo on certain days or whatever. The only problem that I can see....if there were enough horses stabled on-course or training from barns close by....and they all wanted to work, you'd have to think at certain times of the day/year during peak times it would look like Pitt St at lunchtime. All up though, geeze...what a great problem to have...as in so many horses there on site and doing their thing....maybe stables getting rostered to have the track to themselves between certain times or whatever...buggered if I know. If that's the biggest hassle they have then I reckon they'll be doing alright. I'm sure John D & Wanno & Co. at Menangle would be only to pleased to have such hassles.
/QUOTE]

VVV

[Danno]

Fair dinkum Jamie you are like a dog with a bone mate, I have been away in the dusty areas of western Qld for 3 days and you still refer to a lack of nominations for these 2yo fillies races as "excuses".
There is a whole world of people out there Jamie that don't quite agree with you sometimes, but of course what they put forward is just excuses.

Geez I'd like to have horse in my yard with same never give an inch no matter what attitude! I think you might be related to Hondo Grattan Jamie!
Cheers,
Dan

[eliteblood]

I agree very much with Jaimie on this issue. It is so important that we develop a situation whereby fillies and mares are able to race almost exclusively in same sex races.
It doesn't make sense to me either that trainers of Sydney based 2YO fillies would choose to race elsewhere against the boys in preference to a fillies only race at Menangle, as appeared to be the case last week.
Lee, I don't think Jaimie is suggesting that you or anyone else in the country should be travelling to Menangle to race in fillies only races. The goal is that, no matter where you are based, there are mares and fillies only racing opportunities held in each region on a regular and reliable basis so that owners and trainers have the option of bypassing the boys.
Centralised programming would make it easier to coordinate the programming of these races. If that is what it takes to achieve the goal then bring it on.

[Lethal]

Hello Trevor,
You have the spot, that races should be programmed on a regular basis in the respective regions, for all the reasons that have been identified in earlier posts. So might the problem lie with uncoordinated programming rather than with owners/trainers who some see as the culprits for 2yo races not standing up.
Trainers generally are reluctant to travel long distances with young ones and owners want to see them race near their home/work.

[Tangles]

Hello Trevor,
You have the spot, that races should be programmed on a regular basis in the respective regions, for all the reasons that have been identified in earlier posts. So might the problem lie with uncoordinated programming rather than with owners/trainers who some see as the culprits for 2yo races not standing up.
Trainers generally are reluctant to travel long distances with young ones and owners want to see them race near their home/work.


Every meeting should be programmed with at least 2 fillies/ or mare races only and if they do not stand up PBD based on sex. If mares races are not programmed we will continue to see the demise of the Australian breeding industry.

But maybe this is what the administrators are fostering anyway. This would sound ludicous if it was not already happening. For each imported NZ horses money flows out, of the system into the NZ system and so our industry dies.

We have become the carrion of the NZ breding industry. South Aus. has become such a basket case it cannot even conduct a sale. For those that can remember it was once the engine room for breeding in the 60's to late 70's. 2000 plus mares bred now only 33.

Breeding bonus's help but more encouragement for ownership of mares and fillies is needed.

[aussiebreno]

Every meeting should be programmed with at least 2 fillies/ or mare races only and if they do not stand up PBD based on sex. If mares races are not programmed we will continue to see the demise of the Australian breeding industry.

But maybe this is what the administrators are fostering anyway. This would sound ludicous if it was not already happening. For each imported NZ horses money flows out, of the system into the NZ system and so our industry dies.

We have become the carrion of the NZ breding industry. South Aus. has become such a basket case it cannot even conduct a sale. For those that can remember it was once the engine room for breeding in the 60's to late 70's. 2000 plus mares bred now only 33.

Breeding bonus's help but more encouragement for ownership of mares and fillies is needed.
I don't think the demise of the SA industry should be in any way linked to race programming.

[dizzy]

[QUOTE=dizzy;20564]Jamie regardless of what you call excuses it will always ultimately be the choice of connections as to where they nominate.
[VVV] G'day Dot,
As far as I'm aware that aspect has never been in question. What I was trying to get across is that Centralised Programming will fix this but at the same time it will see some amongst us with a choice not to have a choice...as in it will basically be an either 'race at X with your 2yo filly (or whatever) or stay at home in the barn' scenario. That being said, it will still prove to be in the best interests of the majority because it will produce more consistent/regular/predictable programs that I believe will see far, far fewer races falling over due to insufficient noms. Net result is some progress and for the better.

As to training centres do you believe it is in trainers and clubs best interests that these be co located?
[VVV] Yes I think all up it is in their respective best interests, perhaps a little moreso in the direction of the Clubs, because the on-course stabling/training will hopefully ensure each them a basic pool of horses to work with, a pool that is located right on their doorstep and from which you'd expect they'll ultimately draw a large % of their noms/race fields.

From my experience training in at a venue that is practically co located the advantages are;
Reduced costs if you are racing at the same location.
[VVV] Certainly, reduced costs to the Industy as a whole and also as I mentioned above, pools of horses located on the doorstep. Both highly desirable you'd have to think.

The disadvantage is unless the racetrack and training facilities can operate autonomously the requirements of each impact negatively on each other. The need of trainers to utilise the track daily impacts on the clubs ability to use their facility to generate other income and the clubs need to generate income results in the track being closed inconvienicing trainers.
[VVV]That might take some sorting out to begin with. I'm guessing the obvious is Race Day training activities that would have to be done & dusted early but for the most part most of them are anyway, at least from what I've seen. Other than that...dunno? It's certainly not a deal breaker. I'm sure the on-course stables and the various tracks would come to a mutally beneficial arrangement...after all, that is exactly what on-course stabling/training is meant to produce. I guess it would be along the lines of our local public pool. There'd be this or that on certain days and for others there'd be no doing whatever before or after this time or that in the morning or in the arvo on certain days or whatever. The only problem that I can see....if there were enough horses stabled on-course or training from barns close by....and they all wanted to work, you'd have to think at certain times of the day/year during peak times it would look like Pitt St at lunchtime. All up though, geeze...what a great problem to have...as in so many horses there on site and doing their thing....maybe stables getting rostered to have the track to themselves between certain times or whatever...buggered if I know. If that's the biggest hassle they have then I reckon they'll be doing alright. I'm sure John D & Wanno & Co. at Menangle would be only to pleased to have such hassles.
/QUOTE]

VVV

Yes Jamie it does happen pretty much as you suggest .

But Jamie would you be happy with a model whereby your little trainers been squeezed out? Or assuming that their still there they cant train their horse some days because they didn't finish work in time, or they had to take the kids to school or the missus to the doctor?

And the trainer at a regional centre finally decides to take his 2yo filly to menangle only to find that the tracks closing at 10 and that when he gets home at 3 am he can only go to bed for an hour before he has to get up to train the rest of the team?

Not to mention the club CEO who when the music promotor or religious group ponies up at the door with tens of thousands of dollars in his pocket to rent his venue for a few days says "sorry mate" can't do it?

And of course what about the horses? Sure horses can be stabled and trained on track and succeed, the odd one might even thrive, but for the most part they are likely to be suffering from increased stress and gastric ulcers. You like the quotes Jamie so I have one for you

"Training off a farm is a much better environment, and I believe anyone can be a more successful as a horse trainer if you get away from the racetrack and have paddocks where you can get your horses out every day. This is a critical part of my program, and I believe that I could not be as effective a horse trainer if I had to stay at the raceway with my stable" Bob McIntosh (Canadian Hall of Fame Trainer) from The New Care and Training of the Trotter and Pacer.


Food for thought Jamie

[Triple V]

[QUOTE=Triple V;20573]

Yes Jamie it does happen pretty much as you suggest.

But Jamie would you be happy with a model whereby your little trainers been squeezed out?
[VVV] Obviously not. Far from it. That's exactly Iwhat 've been banging on about for the last week or more. I am deeply concerned that the smaller stables and 1-2 horse trainers will not get a look in as far as on-course stabling is concerned. Maybe I'm wrong and they'll stick with the spirit of the venture & all interested parties will be catered for on a first come first served basis...let's hope so, although I'll not hold my breath.

Or assuming that their still there they cant train their horse some days because they didn't finish work in time, or they had to take the kids to school or the missus to the doctor?
[VVV] Not good examples to pick at this point in time Dot. My wife is in Spain on business, our girls are home here with me and they still have to go to school and I still have to go to work. So, like every other working person/family on the face of the planet, accomodations will have to be made and they'll just have to work around it I guess. Besides, I very much doubt we'll ever get HRNSW to spring for a series of on-course school buses, creches and a 24/7 Medical Centres. :p

And the trainer at a regional centre finally decides to take his 2yo filly to menangle only to find that the tracks closing at 10 and that when he gets home at 3 am he can only go to bed for an hour before he has to get up to train the rest of the team?
[VVV] Do what all the rest of us do...develop a taste for Red Bull and maintain a close relationship with your Coffee machine.

Not to mention the club CEO who when the music promotor or religious group ponies up at the door with tens of thousands of dollars in his pocket to rent his venue for a few days says "sorry mate" can't do it?
[VVV] The day that John D inconveniences a bunch of on course stabled trainers by way of renting premises to Dylan Liddy so The Hilltop Hoods can showcase their latest album...or gets on the phone to Cardinal George Pell and gives him the nod to hold the next Catholic Youth Rally at Menangle...is the day that I'll stand in the middle of the Pitt Street Mall at lunchtime, drop my pants and sing 'Hey Big Spender' by Shirley Bassey. You can hold me to that.


And of course what about the horses? Sure horses can be stabled and trained on track and succeed, the odd one might even thrive, but for the most part they are likely to be suffering from increased stress and gastric ulcers.
[VVV] I'll have to take your word for that Dot as I simply do not possess that level of forethought nor for that matter, insight.

You like the quotes Jamie so I have one for you

"Training off a farm is a much better environment, and I believe anyone can be a more successful as a horse trainer if you get away from the racetrack and have paddocks where you can get your horses out every day. This is a critical part of my program, and I believe that I could not be as effective a horse trainer if I had to stay at the raceway with my stable" Bob McIntosh (Canadian Hall of Fame Trainer) from The New Care and Training of the Trotter and Pacer.
[VVV] An all-time great Trainer but maybe he's doing a bit of a Tesio there.
What he's saying is less critical than what he's not saying. Dot, if you were sent racehorses of a calibre of Artsplace, Camluck, Odds Against, Artiscape & so on to train, do you honestly think that training/racing out of a box would have stopped them? Vern Norrgard could have trained them and they still would have won. :rolleyes:


Food for thought Jamie
[VVV] More like mental chewing gum.



VVV

[dizzy]

Jamie, Block eyes on and large bone between teeth as usual.

[Triple V]

Jamie, Block eyes on and large bone between teeth as usual.

[VVV]...said the Pot, calling the Kettle black.

[broncobrad]

Is the grass a little greener over the border Triple. HRV just released a little self promo for racing fillys and mares in Victoria that on face value looks the ants pants for the more classier ones. Don't know how the 'run of the mill' girls rate down that way prizemoney wise or for that matter if they have the same problem as NSW, throwing the girls in with the boys to make up the fields.

http://www.harnesslink.com/www/Article.cgi?ID=97601

[Bonnie]

Is the grass a little greener over the border Triple. HRV just released a little self promo for racing fillys and mares in Victoria that on face value looks the ants pants for the more classier ones. Don't know how the 'run of the mill' girls rate down that way prizemoney wise or for that matter if they have the same problem as NSW, throwing the girls in with the boys to make up the fields.

http://www.harnesslink.com/www/Article.cgi?ID=97601
Don't always believe what you read ! It is not greener; perhaps even browner. As an owner/breeder whose racing team comprises 90% fillies/mares IMO the racing opportunities for the fairer sex in Victoria are extremely limited. There are very few country races for fillies and mares only , most have to race against the boys week in and week out. It especially impacts on mares assessed at the C5+ level; there are no mares only country races for them and the option is Country or Metro racing where you compete against the boys or open class mares such as Make Mine Cullen, Broadways Best, Pacific Playgirl etc. There is not even a mares M0 race once a week ( more likely once a month if you are lucky. )
As for the CEO's comment re Musical Delight's 2 year old success that was an APG Final and is a rotational race currently held between NSW, Vic and Qld . It is funded by APG, breeders and owners not HRV. Like Jaimie I am a passionate advocate for increased opportunities for fillies and mares but it's not happening in Victoria.

[Triple V]

G'day Anne,

Increased opportunities would indeed be great....as in opportunities being increased to something that is even remotely approaching a situation where the fillies & mares are on par with their male counterparts.
Here in NSW I have been keeping track of the 2yo Fillies Only events (as always excluding Sales Races, Futurities, Classics & Group events) and since the last week of Feb. and for the Fillies Only...the figures are currently running at a paltry 16% of all 2yo races programmed...or to look at it another way, 84% of the time 2yo Fillies are forced to race their male counterparts and what is worse still they more often than not have to do so in races that are conducted under RBD conditions. During certain parts of the season the fillies only races threaten to drop down into single digits, which is absolutely bloody disgraceful. There's no green grass anywhere, apparently.:(

[broncobrad]

Thanks Anne and Jaimie, your figures are a lot more plausible than the rubbery ones touted by the HRV boss. It must have galled Mr Anderson no end, to see along side his own media release promoting the fillies and mares opportunities on the harnesslink site, a story about Victorian trainer Shayne Cramp being lured to Menangle to chase the better prizemoney now being offered. The media can be such a double sided sword.