Two Drives Poles Apart

[broncobrad]

Race 8 at Bankstown today produced one of the most inspiring of drives I have seen in an awful long time. G McElhinney drove one of those races that you either look brilliant if it comes off, or a goose if you don't. From the gate he sooled Tessace out and engaged in a three way speed battle before finally resting the lead from Romulus. She kept a healthy lead past the bell then took off again down the back setting up a huge lead, enough to see her get home on very tired legs. It is the sort of driving that creates excitement in racing, the type we dont see often enough these days. Initiative, together with knowing your horse and seizing on opportunity, just a great drive. Loved it.

On the other hand, the first of the three to pull out of the speed battle was the $2.10 fav, Rockson, which settled perfectly in third, behind Romulus $73 in second. Driven by D C Caffyn, for some unknown reason allowed Rockson to stay in that position as the rest of the pack joined Romulus and Rockson approaching the bell. Now I might just be a grandstand driver, but for the life of me why Rockson stayed behind a $70 chance and allowed himself to get held up at a vital stage instead of popping off the pegs and getting a suck up behind the eventual winner is absolutely beyond me. Not saying that Rockson could have beat the winner which had set up a massive lead but it did get within 8m of the winner. Romulus which was going nowhere down the back (except holding up Rockson) finished an unbelievable 182m behind the winner. If the stewards are fair dinkum about unacceptable or inept drives here is a classic example. The vision is not available on the results page yet but will probably be there tomorrow. We will never know if Tessace would have got run down. It was a blight in what was an absolute bottler of a race. Talk about two entirely different types of drives. View the results (and the vision when it becomes available) on http://www.harness.org.au/meeting-results.cfm?mc=BK070512&ms=nsw

If for no other reason than to just watch a great front running display, it is worth a look.

Vision now available on trots tv http://www.trotstv.com.au/?id=4414

[geoffkel]

I can tell you it was not the drive from McElhinney. He had no choice he could not hold the thing back to them.

When they bolt like it did driver's have no choice in the matter.

[2minuteman]

Winning like that will make future performances interesting.What were the sectionals?

[Triple V]

Have always liked G. McElhinney in the bike. He's got a rather happy knack of landing horses in the right place at the right time to enable them to win a race if they're good enough to do so. Not much more you can ask of a driver than that.

[broncobrad]

I can tell you it was not the drive from McElhinney. He had no choice he could not hold the thing back to them.

When they bolt like it did driver's have no choice in the matter.

Hey Geoff, she was sure fired up and bolting in the first lap, but I reckon the G MAC summed the race up and slipped her a bit more leather entering the straight the second time and let just let her slide from there. Turned out to be a winning move. Made him look like a genius and the rest...well, a couple of them woke up when the race was out of their grasp.

On the other hand, like you say McElhinney may have had no choice!

[broncobrad]

Winning like that will make future performances interesting.What were the sectionals?

The lead time was a zipping 37.7 The qtrs were 30.9 30.4 30.2 and a final qtr of 32.2 Hows that last qtr? MR 2.01.4

Wont see another one like that for a while. Without crossing threads, Tessace might go alright in that 1,000m bizzo in July on that run.

[broncobrad]

Have always liked G. McElhinney in the bike. He's got a rather happy knack of landing horses in the right place at the right time to enable them to win a race if they're good enough to do so. Not much more you can ask of a driver than that.

Yep, one of those drives where he has taken every advantage of an ordinary situation and turned it into his own positives.

No thoughts on the drive by Caffyn? I don't think he is going to feature much in the stewards full report when it becomes available. His drive for mine was positively NEGATIVE.

[The Form Student]

The horses betting price does not always dictate how it should be driven...........I was very sceptical about how to compare Rocksonn to other runners in that race.......it was very short for a horse resuming after a spell........no-one knew how it was going etc,.......it appears as though it has some problems, as it is only raced sparingly, twice in February, 3 times in November-December, 4 times in previous June'11..........what made it favourite was the good barrier draw, but D Caffyn was not getting involved in a fast lead charge, which was a good idea.......as the race panned out, and depending on it's fitness.......he chose to drive it quietly.....it was not a normally run race..........if a particular horse from gate 6 (which you mentioned got beat 182 metres), had not had a change of tactics and gone forward, D Caffyn would have been perhaps behind the leader............I am confident the result would have been different!......Tessace is a bit of a "plugger" so the tactics suited the horse!

[broncobrad]

Hey Steve.....The point I am making on this thread is one driver makes the most of difficult circumstances as the race unfolds, the other becomes a victim of circumstance by not reacting at all to what is occurring around him. Protecting your horse is one thing, not taking opportunities as they present is another. We will never know if Rockson would have beaten Tessace. I am not trying to be the hanging judge here and not suggesting anything untoward. But I sure am critical that Caffyn allowed himself to be boxed in by a horse that had been engaged in a speed battle and was only going in one direction...backwards. By the by Steve, what was the race number at Maryborough last week you mentioned, I for some reason could not open the link. Cheers.

[The Form Student]

I am going to watch the Tessace race again! The other race was the last at Maryborough! Just have a look and let me know what you think? Tessace really got fired up after launching out of the gate...........this is unusual for one of "Black Mick" Watkins, most of his are usually sit-sprinters.......
Watched Tessace race again........Firstly, Romulus almost knocked Rocksonn down entering the home straight with a mile to go, to get in behind the leader!............(K Pizzuto loves to aim up for the lead at all costs), Secondly, D Caffyn thought about coming outside at the bell, but didn't go on with it.......this would have been a winning move if he did! It looks like the G Mac got away with one by default! It reminded me of a horse called "Captain Gay" that raced in the late sixties or early seventies I think, that used to get out and lead by 200-300 metres, sometimes he got rundown other times he didn't!. Also a horse called Tiny Rebel with V Munday aboard used to open a big break on the field, due to it's brilliant standing start manners! These tactics come off from time to time, but it requires the other drivers to rate their horses to their ability to bring them undone!

[The Form Student]

Hey Brad, how come K Pizzuto wasn't given time like T Rue for running a fast lead time....at least T Rue only got beaten 13 metres not 182......the stewards decided to blame the horse, not K Pizzuto?

[broncobrad]

Hey Brad, how come K Pizzuto wasn't given time like T Rue for running a fast lead time....at least T Rue only got beaten 13 metres not 182......the stewards decided to blame the horse, not K Pizzuto?

As far as I know, the full report is still to be posted, but don't expect any suprises. Without getting out my ruler out to measure the distance the two horses contested the lead for, I don't think it looked anywhere near as bad or lasted as long as Bathurst, but I don't think Trent did too much wrong that night either. Benefit of the doubt decision here. I'm never gonna hang someone for initiative as long as the right questions are asked and the right answers are given after the race.

[Triple V]

Yep, one of those drives where he has taken every advantage of an ordinary situation and turned it into his own positives.

No thoughts on the drive by Caffyn? I don't think he is going to feature much in the stewards full report when it becomes available. His drive for mine was positively NEGATIVE.

[VVV] Didn't see the race in question mate, just commenting on G Mac's drives in general.

[2minuteman]

The lead time was a zipping 37.7 The qtrs were 30.9 30.4 30.2 and a final qtr of 32.2 Hows that last qtr? MR 2.01.4

Wont see another one like that for a while. Without crossing threads, Tessace might go alright in that 1,000m bizzo in July on that run.
Thanks for that,those times will make it hard to make a case for anything that finished behind to beat the winner in future.1000 at Menangle looks a soda.

[Danno]

Brad, Steve,
I think if David Caffyn shows his horse daylight any sooner.... the horse doesn't get to the line, they are not machines gents, they have a heart and a mind and they will remind you of they every now and then! A nice horse like Rockson, being still a little bit off his best would have easily been busted in a race run like that... a dumb driver would have looked to win the race and run out of "bottom" with a horse not quite race tough, A smart driver looks for the easier option for the horse and doesn't bust the horse's preparation for an unlikey, short term win.

I know you will not agree, but in my opinion, David Caffyn got the absolute best result he could have in that particular race,AND did not knock the horse around.

as usual, speaking from a perspective not necessarily aligned with you bloody punters.

Cheers,
Dan

[2minuteman]

Brad, Steve,
as usual, speaking from a perspective not necessarily aligned with you bloody punters.
Cheers,
Dan
And there lies the problem.My $$$$$ help keep the sport alive but I am just "a bloody punter" Jesus wept.

[broncobrad]

Hey Danno...You know I can't agree with you, only because your opinion on the possible outcome is the same as mine. It is a moot point because we will never know either way what the likely outcome would have been if he had gone early. Dan, I always value your opinion, like VVV I have learnt an awful lot in a pretty short time.
IMO it was an opportunity gone begging. Your opinion is he has done everything he possibly could to achieve the best possible position for a horse (possibly) short of a run. Am happy to leave it at that.

However, what I am absolutely delighted about is the stewards ACTUALLY ASKED THE SAME QUESTION as I did. Now that does give me confidence that The Blind Men From Alabama saw enough in the drive to pose the question. The explanation given by Caffyn was plausible, believable and the circumstantial evidence backs his case. So once again I am satisfied that the stipes have done their job to Nthhh degree and I can live with the fact that no further correspondence needs to be entered into on this drive.

Tell you what tho' Dan, we bloody punters are just as integral a part in the sport as the rest of the owners, trainers, drivers, breeders, administration and the bloke on the gate. We also just want a fair go.


The stewards report is a good read for a change http://www.harness.org.au/stewards-reports-detail.cfm?mc=BK070512

[Danno]

And there lies the problem.My $$$$$ help keep the sport alive but I am just "a bloody punter" Jesus wept.

Steady on there Ron, theres bloody punters, bloody drivers, bloody trainers and bloody owners as well don't go thinking your getting special treatment mate and most of all don't forget you may have a few dollars on the ponies and that greatly assists with prizemoney! While you patting yourself on the back spare a thought for the bloody owners who are paying to keep the horse in work, transport it to the races, run nowhere 60% of the time and get no prizemoney to back up and put the show on next week for the poor bloody punters who overrate their importance to the game because dumb administrators have been pandering to them for too bloody long.
I hope Jesus weeps for you mate, cos I'm not, every cog in the wheel is needed and none are more critical than the others.

[Danno]

Hey Danno...You know I can't agree with you, only because your opinion on the possible outcome is the same as mine. It is a moot point because we will never know either way what the likely outcome would have been if he had gone early. Dan, I always value your opinion, like VVV I have learnt an awful lot in a pretty short time.
IMO it was an opportunity gone begging. Your opinion is he has done everything he possibly could to achieve the best possible position for a horse (possibly) short of a run. Am happy to leave it at that.

However, what I am absolutely delighted about is the stewards ACTUALLY ASKED THE SAME QUESTION as I did. Now that does give me confidence that The Blind Men From Alabama saw enough in the drive to pose the question. The explanation given by Caffyn was plausible, believable and the circumstantial evidence backs his case. So once again I am satisfied that the stipes have done their job to Nthhh degree and I can live with the fact that no further correspondence needs to be entered into on this drive.

Tell you what tho' Dan, we bloody punters are just as integral a part in the sport as the rest of the owners, trainers, drivers, breeders, administration and the bloke on the gate. We also just want a fair go.


The stewards report is a good read for a change http://www.harness.org.au/stewards-reports-detail.cfm?mc=BK070512

I'll have a read in a minute Brad,thanks for the tip, as i've responded to Ron in a similar vein...everyone and everything is needed to foster and nurture the game... none should feel they are more required than others, if you read all of my posts from last night the word bloody got a fair old run, not at anyone in particular, more a vent from a long and difficult few days at "the office"

[2minuteman]

Steady on there Ron, theres bloody punters, bloody drivers, bloody trainers and bloody owners as well don't go thinking your getting special treatment mate and most of all don't forget you may have a few dollars on the ponies and that greatly assists with prizemoney! While you patting yourself on the back spare a thought for the bloody owners who are paying to keep the horse in work, transport it to the races, run nowhere 60% of the time and get no prizemoney to back up and put the show on next week for the poor bloody punters who overrate their importance to the game because dumb administrators have been pandering to them for too bloody long.
I hope Jesus weeps for you mate, cos I'm not, every cog in the wheel is needed and none are more critical than the others.
I never said anything about special treatment.I was not looking for a pat on the back.I was simply pointing out that attitudes that denigrate one section of the industry in front of another do nothing to engender a civil conversation.Your comment "...the poor bloody punters who overate their importance...." has lord of the manor connotations that do nothing to have your opinions taken with the good grace I am sure that you wish them to be taken.
I hesitate to ask,but just exactly where do you see a part that the "poor bloody punter" could play that would satisfy you?

[Danno]

I never said anything about special treatment.I was not looking for a pat on the back.I was simply pointing out that attitudes that denigrate one section of the industry in front of another do nothing to engender a civil conversation.Your comment "...the poor bloody punters who overate their importance...." has lord of the manor connotations that do nothing to have your opinions taken with the good grace I am sure that you wish them to be taken.
I hesitate to ask,but just exactly where do you see a part that the "poor bloody punter" could play that would satisfy you?

Geez Ron,
I'm not playing god here and I hope no one else is either, every cog in the wheel is needed and none are more critical than the others. That was the last line and statement in the post! where does that say I need to be satisfied??
If I've offended you then I am genuinely sorry for that , because it certainly was not my intention. I think if you reread the post I used similar language about all the participants/cogs in the wheel.
Cheers,
Dan

[2minuteman]

Brad, Steve,
I think if David Caffyn shows his horse daylight any sooner.... the horse doesn't get to the line, they are not machines gents, they have a heart and a mind and they will remind you of they every now and then! A nice horse like Rockson, being still a little bit off his best would have easily been busted in a race run like that... a dumb driver would have looked to win the race and run out of "bottom" with a horse not quite race tough, A smart driver looks for the easier option for the horse and doesn't bust the horse's preparation for an unlikey, short term win.

I know you will not agree, but in my opinion, David Caffyn got the absolute best result he could have in that particular race,AND did not knock the horse around.

as usual, speaking from a perspective not necessarily aligned with you bloody punters.

Cheers,
Dan
I see no mention of poor bloody anyone else here.My original reply was pointing out that there was an attitudinal problem inherent in the post.

[2minuteman]

Geez Ron,
I'm not playing god here and I hope no one else is either, every cog in the wheel is needed and none are more critical than the others. That was the last line and statement in the post! where does that say I need to be satisfied??
If I've offended you then I am genuinely sorry for that , because it certainly was not my intention. I think if you reread the post I used similar language about all the participants/cogs in the wheel.
Cheers,
Dan


You do not offend me at all.I stand by my initial reply to your post.The rest is "I said...you said..." and goes nowhere.

[Danno]

I see no mention of poor bloody anyone else here.My original reply was pointing out that there was an attitudinal problem inherent in the post.

With all due respect Ron you may well be a highly qualified Dr Phil researcher, but if you reckon that post represents an inherent "attidudinal problem", you're gunna be just a bit too sensitive for me to adequately interact with in a satifactory manner, you see, in my professional life I deal with rather large pieces of engineering excellence, my particular role in this is to "manage friction" believe it or not! and when I finish work I'm not really into managing unprogrammed interpersonal friction as I've pretty much had enough of friction management for one day, as you can no doubt understand being a DR Phil researcher!!

please read into that whatever you choose,
Cheers,
Dan

[2minuteman]

With all due respect Ron you may well be a highly qualified Dr Phil researcher, but if you reckon that post represents an inherent "attidudinal problem", you're gunna be just a bit too sensitive for me to adequately interact with in a satifactory manner, you see, in my professional life I deal with rather large pieces of engineering excellence, my particular role in this is to "manage friction" believe it or not! and when I finish work I'm not really into managing unprogrammed interpersonal friction as I've pretty much had enough of friction management for one day, as you can no doubt understand being a DR Phil researcher!!

please read into that whatever you choose,
Cheers,
Dan
Sorry Dan,I stand on the naughty mat suitably chastised,a simple bloody punter.

[clumsy]

Danno the punter bets on all types of sports and would not care if harness racing was not there to bet on, not like the owners, trainers and drivers who are part of an industry where some earn a living and others see it as a hobby. If we want to continue to enjoy our sport then we must keep the punter happy as they are our main source of income.

[Danno]

Danno the punter bets on all types of sports and would not care if harness racing was not there to bet on, not like the owners, trainers and drivers who are part of an industry where some earn a living and others see it as a hobby. If we want to continue to enjoy our sport then we must keep the punter happy as they are our main source of income.

Greg,
the punter is important to our game, I have acknowledged that time and time again on this forum, if somone decides to get precious about being called a "bloody punter" and take offence because they should be referrred to in a different way then that is their problem mate, I'm not asking anyone to lick my boots and I'm sure as hell not gunna lick anyone else's. The game is more reliant in my opinion on owners, but do you see any owners getting precious about how they are addressed on this forum?

Personally speaking, I own and train and drive all of my own horses, I don't have a punt purely because it doesn't interest me and I would race for 20 bucks, a carton of beer or whatever, now just because I don't rely on the punter I'm not having a shot at those who feel they do... do you get where I'm going with this Greg? I hope so!

Most people, myself included should and do respect the fact that the majority of prizemoney comes from the punting dollar, but Greg, thats where it ends mate, the punter plays his part like everyone else, but he's not feeding my horses, I am. He's not paying the service fees, I am. He's not putting the shoes on, paying the transport costs, paying the vet etc etc etc.........I am.

[clumsy]

Greg,
the punter is important to our game, I have acknowledged that time and time again on this forum, if somone decides to get precious about being called a "bloody punter" and take offence because they should be referrred to in a different way then that is their problem mate, I'm not asking anyone to lick my boots and I'm sure as hell not gunna lick anyone else's. The game is more reliant in my opinion on owners, but do you see any owners getting precious about how they are addressed on this forum?

Personally speaking, I own and train and drive all of my own horses, I don't have a punt purely because it doesn't interest me and I would race for 20 bucks, a carton of beer or whatever, now just because I don't rely on the punter I'm not having a shot at those who feel they do... do you get where I'm going with this Greg? I hope so!

Most people, myself included should and do respect the fact that the majority of prizemoney comes from the punting dollar, but Greg, thats where it ends mate, the punter plays his part like everyone else, but he's not feeding my horses, I am. He's not paying the service fees, I am. He's not putting the shoes on, paying the transport costs, paying the vet etc etc etc.........I am.

Dan I don't train or drive but I am an owner as for punting a $20 bet once every blue moon is a big deal for me. Like a lot of others you own,train and drive your horses and would be happy racing for 20 bucks but for those that strive to make a living from the sport the punters dollar is very important.

[broncobrad]

Greg, just wondering is Shaun your brother, uncle, nephew? Watched State Emblem go round at Young earlier and I thought Shanes drive from the back row to land behind the leader was an absolute pearler of drive and deserved better than fourth. They're the sort of drives you see and appreciate. Giving your horse every possible and not die wondering. 11/10.

[clumsy]

Greg, just wondering is Shaun your brother, uncle, nephew? Watched State Emblem go round at Young earlier and I thought Shanes drive from the back row to land behind the leader was an absolute pearler of drive and deserved better than fourth. They're the sort of drives you see and appreciate. Giving your horse every possible and not die wondering. 11/10.
Brad, Shaun is my son and trains the horses from the family property in Narrandera. You are right about Shane's drive, it was one of his best.

[broncobrad]

Brad, Steve,
I think if David Caffyn shows his horse daylight any sooner.... the horse doesn't get to the line, they are not machines gents, they have a heart and a mind and they will remind you of they every now and then! A nice horse like Rockson, being still a little bit off his best would have easily been busted in a race run like that... a dumb driver would have looked to win the race and run out of "bottom" with a horse not quite race tough, A smart driver looks for the easier option for the horse and doesn't bust the horse's preparation for an unlikey, short term win.

I know you will not agree, but in my opinion, David Caffyn got the absolute best result he could have in that particular race,AND did not knock the horse around.

as usual, speaking from a perspective not necessarily aligned with you bloody punters.

Cheers,
Dan

Hey Dan

Rockson went around at Penrith last night in different circumstances to 10 days ago and got the bikkies. This time David elected to use concession driver Mat Rue, was able to obtain an uncontested lead and although he did receive some solid pressure from Alta Onassis mid race, was still able to find the line well. Allowing for natural improvement I thought the times were a telling factor in comparing the two races

7th May Bankstown 30.9, 30.4, 30.2, 32.2 Lead Time 37.7 MR 2.01.4 3rd
17th May Penrith 30.4, 30.8, 30.4, 29.9 Lead Time 38.4 MR 2.01.1 1st

10 days apart and the last 1/4 was an improvement of 2.3 seconds. After last night, I have got no doubt if David Caffyn had extricated himself at Bankstown earlier and let Rockson roll into the race he would have got a lot closer to the runaway Tessace. Anyway, like I said before it is a moot point and a matter of conjecture only now. Mats drive last night was excellent and gave the horse every possible. That is all any punter can hope for.:D

[Danno]

Hey Dan

Rockson went around at Penrith last night in different circumstances to 10 days ago and got the bikkies. This time David elected to use concession driver Mat Rue, was able to obtain an uncontested lead and although he did receive some solid pressure from Alta Onassis mid race, was still able to find the line well. Allowing for natural improvement I thought the times were a telling factor in comparing the two races

7th May Bankstown 30.9, 30.4, 30.2, 32.2 Lead Time 37.7 MR 2.01.4 3rd
17th May Penrith 30.4, 30.8, 30.4, 29.9 Lead Time 38.4 MR 2.01.1 1st

10 days apart and the last 1/4 was an improvement of 2.3 seconds. After last night, I have got no doubt if David Caffyn had extricated himself at Bankstown earlier and let Rockson roll into the race he would have got a lot closer to the runaway Tessace. Anyway, like I said before it is a moot point and a matter of conjecture only now. Mats drive last night was excellent and gave the horse every possible. That is all any punter can hope for.:D

I hope you got on Brad, from a trainer's perspective he wins at Penrith cos he wasn't unnecessarily knocked around first up at Bankstown!!! :D :D :D

Cheers,
Dan

[broncobrad]

Nah!!! At threes on, I just watch 'em go round like most others. As you bring the trainers perspective into the chat, as it turns out it was a masterstroke by Caffyn to engage young Rue, because he only just got it home with the downgrade. Fred Hastings was just saying on Sky that from next week he will be driving without that concession.

Should not be of any concern to him. He has shown he is up to the mark and I am pretty sure he will still be well supported by Luke.

[broncobrad]

Brad, Shaun is my son and trains the horses from the family property in Narrandera. You are right about Shane's drive, it was one of his best.

Hey Greg....I was gutted for you blokes last night when Our Koolkat got nutted on the line after the commentator had called you'se the winner in the first, but good on the stable for making amends with State Emblem later in the night. Cheers (and I will bet it was cool down there last night)

[clumsy]

Hey Greg....I was gutted for you blokes last night when Our Koolkat got nutted on the line after the commentator had called you'se the winner in the first, but good on the stable for making amends with State Emblem later in the night. Cheers (and I will bet it was cool down there last night)
Went to Young Friday and the meeting was washed out before we raced and the meeting at Cootamundra today was called off, it was cold miserable weekend. Six nominated and only two got to race.