HRNSW Stewards in Cost Recovery Mode?

[Triple V]

Seems the infamous 'Bankstown Parking Police' have got nothing on our intrepid Stewards Panel.
From Tuesday May 15th, 2012 through until Sunday June 24th, 2012...NSW Stewards have handed out a staggering $19,050 in fines to Industry Participants :eek::eek::eek::eek:...the bulk of which has come from the pockets of Drivers.
Looks like it's a new Potted Ficus for everyone's office.

[aussiebreno]

Highlighted by $1200 from the one race yesterday, the 2yo boys, with a total of $2450 for the day. Gotta pay for these Breeders Challenge Finals somehow VVV!

[Thevoiceofreason]

I am too busy to look into all the fines VVV, I have to make time to rearrange my sock draw but if the $1200 handed out in the Group 1 race yesterday is an example than the fines seem fine to me.

$500 for changing the result by shifting out all the way up the straight....... Not excessive.
$500 for a complete mess of a start that could have led to a disqualification and the public doing their money cold.....Not excessive.
$200 for a whip offence .... you get that in a Race at Tamworth worth $5000.... Not excessive.

You can not forget as someone once said " The Penalty for doing nothing wrong...... is nothing"

[aussiebreno]

I am too busy to look into all the fines VVV, I have to make time to rearrange my sock draw but if the $1200 handed out in the Group 1 race yesterday is an example than the fines seem fine to me.

$500 for changing the result by shifting out all the way up the straight....... Not excessive.
$500 for a complete mess of a start that could have led to a disqualification and the public doing their money cold.....Not excessive.
$200 for a whip offence .... you get that in a Race at Tamworth worth $5000.... Not excessive.

You can not forget as someone once said " The Penalty for doing nothing wrong...... is nothing"
Classic!

[broncobrad]

Have only just caught up with Sundays results and am astounded as to why the starter isn't shouldering the bulk of the blame in the mix up of starting positions in the C & G final (R5) http://www.harness.org.au/meeting-results.cfm?mc=ME240612&ms=nsw all seems a bit amateurish to me.

[Thevoiceofreason]

Have only just caught up with Sundays results and am astounded as to why the starter isn't shouldering the bulk of the blame in the mix up of starting positions in the C & G final (R5) http://www.harness.org.au/meeting-results.cfm?mc=ME240612&ms=nsw all seems a bit amateurish to me.

Brad the rules are clear it is the responsibility of the driver to come up to the gate in position, the starter should be more interested in making sure that interference is not occurring in the score up which could lead to him being asked to adjudicate on if a start should be aborted.

The driver only has to worry about one horse not 10 coming at you in a line, remember one in the line was galloping and the starter rightly should have been watching this incident unfold to ensure he was not required to call a false start, it is the driver who should know where he is drawn and come up in position.

[clumsy]

Brad the rules are clear it is the responsibility of the driver to come up to the gate in position, the starter should be more interested in making sure that interference is not occurring in the score up which could lead to him being asked to adjudicate on if a start should be aborted.

The driver only has to worry about one horse not 10 coming at you in a line, remember one in the line was galloping and the starter rightly should have been watching this incident unfold to ensure he was not required to call a false start, it is the driver who should know where he is drawn and come up in position.

Why was only one driver found guilty, if the drivers have a problem with the start then they should raise their hand to indicate to the starter. As no driver did this they both must've been happy with where they were starting from.

[Thevoiceofreason]

Why was only one driver found guilty, if the drivers have a problem with the start then they should raise their hand to indicate to the starter. As no driver did this they both must've been happy with where they were starting from.

From reading the report it appears that Sugars assumed the wrong position so he is at fault Rue can not take the spot once it is taken, you have a point about putting his hand in the air but at that stage he is probably trying to get a position on the gate in case the starter lets them go, which he did, reads like Sugars causes the drama so he should wear the penalty.

[Triple V]

I am too busy to look into all the fines VVV, I have to make time to rearrange my sock draw but if the $1200 handed out in the Group 1 race yesterday is an example than the fines seem fine to me.

$500 for changing the result by shifting out all the way up the straight....... Not excessive.
$500 for a complete mess of a start that could have led to a disqualification and the public doing their money cold.....Not excessive.
$200 for a whip offence .... you get that in a Race at Tamworth worth $5000.... Not excessive.

You can not forget as someone once said " The Penalty for doing nothing wrong...... is nothing"

[VVV] Hey VOR. Be that as it may, to put a little perspective on all this, you know...if they keep on finining drivers etc. at the rate that they are currently handing them out (see May 15th through June 24th) they stand to collect a rather handy $200,000 pa.
I heard a rumour today that they were considering installing Lack Of Speed Cameras at each quarter on all NSW Tracks so that Drivers who back the field down on the front end and go slower than the specified sectionals will no longer clog up the Stewards Room post race, instead they'll just receive their Fines in the mail along with a link to a wesbite which displays a picture of the offence for verification purposes.
There are also said to be moves afoot for Gear Form Cameras to be installed in all NSW marshalling yards, a move which is being welcomed by the Stewards as by and large most are under the impression that a Murphy Blind is in fact a pissed Irishman. :rolleyes:

[mango]

Hey Triple

Don't get me started on sectionals again, it is a bulls**t rule.

[aussiebreno]

Hey Triple

Don't get me started on sectionals again, it is a bulls**t rule.

+1.

[Triple V]

Sure is....mandated sectionals and change of tactics notifications.....abject disgraces both. Shame Shame Shame.

[strong persuader]

I have always felt that the slow sectional fines should be done away and replaced with a lack of initiative fine given to all the other drivers who are sitting back and allowing it to happen. :) This should appeal to everyone, instead of one driver getting hit with a $100 fine, they may be able to nab six to eight drivers for $50 a piece!!

[Thevoiceofreason]

[VVV] Hey VOR. Be that as it may, to put a little perspective on all this, you know...if they keep on finining drivers etc. at the rate that they are currently handing them out (see May 15th through June 24th) they stand to collect a rather handy $200,000 pa.
I heard a rumour today that they were considering installing Lack Of Speed Cameras at each quarter on all NSW Tracks so that Drivers who back the field down on the front end and go slower than the specified sectionals will no longer clog up the Stewards Room post race, instead they'll just receive their Fines in the mail along with a link to a wesbite which displays a picture of the offence for verification purposes.
There are also said to be moves afoot for Gear Form Cameras to be installed in all NSW marshalling yards, a move which is being welcomed by the Stewards as by and large most are under the impression that a Murphy Blind is in fact a pissed Irishman. :rolleyes:

Triple V one of your best talk about calling a spade a shovel I doubt in my time on this forum I have seen a better example gear, you know it and so do I in harness gear is a joke and will be forever if you need a horse to be on hole six on a headcheck to keep him off a knee and you put him in hole 4 the stewards will never know. Just one example.

Sectionals have been a drama since the early seventies when it was discussed to cut prize money when they went too slow I do not know the answer never have, but todays rule is there and while it is should be adhered too.


I f you have a better alternative contact HRNSW and put it forward. You never know your luck

[Triple V]

...I've just never been able to understand why the burden of tempo falls upon the leader to set, that as opposed to those sitting back behind and repeatedly failing/refusing to put their own charge/s into the race.
It is absurd.
If drivers hang back & let the leader get away with murder then more fool them.
Watch what G-Mac did with Reno Street last night in Race 6 at Penrith, wandered out in 39, wandered a 1st half in 63 & a bit then home in 58, never looked like getting beaten, I expect Boris and Reno would have been heading to the windows with a lap to go.
Now I've got no idea what the mandated requirements of G-Mac are as far as sectionals are concerned but as a case on point.....the fact is those behind him let dawdle through the first 1320m of that 2125m race in 1:42.2. :eek: Is it G-Mac's fault nobody behind him showed any initiative whatsoever ? I think not.
As far as ideas are concerned...I don't have an alternative as such (not sure that there needs to be one anyway) however I'm also sure that a demonstrably bad idea is not in any way a better thing than no idea.

[aussiebreno]

...I've just never been able to understand why the burden of tempo falls upon the leader to set, that as opposed to those sitting back behind and repeatedly failing/refusing to put their own charge/s into the race.
It is absurd.
If drivers hang back & let the leader get away with murder then more fool them.
Watch what G-Mac did with Reno Street last night in Race 6 at Penrith, wandered out in 39, wandered a 1st half in 63 & a bit then home in 58, never looked like getting beaten, I expect Boris and Reno would have been heading to the windows with a lap to go.
Now I've got no idea what the mandated requirements of G-Mac are as far as sectionals are concerned but as a case on point.....the fact is those behind him let dawdle through the first 1320m of that 2125m race in 1:42.2. :eek: Is it G-Mac's fault nobody behind him showed any initiative whatsoever ? I think not.
As far as ideas are concerned...I don't have an alternative as such (not sure that there needs to be one anyway) however I'm also sure that a demonstrably bad idea is not in any way a better thing than no idea.
This.

[dizzy]

Well I've an idea on how we could use the money, how about a "Start Management Computer" with transponder chips in the saddle cloths to ensure drivers score up in the correct starting position, with an alarm sent through an earpiece to the starter if they don't? And if we've collected enough why not trial something that could change harness racing like the transition from standing to mobile starts did-handicap mobile starts? Seriously-its 2012 and it could be done, sign posts at 10m intervals along the score up, computer in the mobile, earpiece for drivers that emits a tone that becomes more frequent as they approach their "mark" behind the mobile becoming constant and louder if they get ahead of their mark during the score up. Computer iniates a false start if anyone is in front of their mark when the field is released or reviewed immediately after the race to DQ anyone who was ahead of their mark. I'm sure theres a computer/electronics geek out there that could whip one up for us.

Ok I'm probably dreaming but Jamie think of the stud opportunities for Guido, on an 800m track his stock could automaticly get a 400m handicap in a mile race, no ones likely to notice at the finish they went half a lap less then the rest!

[broncobrad]

I have NO idea what a slow sectional would be defined as today at Menangle, but if there are breaches it would show just how ridiculous these breaches and fines are. Imagine a driver being asked to explain themselves for going too slow in the The Flying K heats. "Well Sir, no-one attacked me...what am I supposed to do, sacrifice my horse to justify your minimum time standards?"

[Triple V]

I have NO idea what a slow sectional would be defined as today at Menangle, but if there are breaches it would show just how ridiculous these breaches and fines are. Imagine a driver being asked to explain themselves for going too slow in the The Flying K heats. "Well Sir, no-one attacked me...what am I supposed to do, sacrifice my horse to justify your minimum time standards?"

[VVV] EXACTLY! The rule governing slow sectionals works in direct opposition to the rule which requires a driver to afford his/her horse every opportunity to finish in the best possible position. Absolutely bloody absurd.

[mango]

[VVV] EXACTLY! The rule governing slow sectionals works in direct opposition to the rule which requires a driver to afford his/her horse every opportunity to finish in the best possible position. Absolutely bloody absurd.

Hey Triple

Common mate say what you really mean lmao. It's a rule to rip more money out of the driver's pocket's, it is complete and utter bulls##t and it should be scrapped and the person who come up with this idiotic rule should have to refund all the driver's who have been fined.

[Triple V]

Amen. It's like having a traffic sign at a T-intersection that says Right Turn Only and one directly below it that says No Right Turn while to the left and the right sits a Highyway Patrol car waiting to book those that turn in either direction.
On a related note, I will never, ever forget last year's epically bloodyminded and abjectly foolish application of the ridiculous Change Of Tactics rule to Luke McCarthy's winning drive aboard Roman Stride. God help us all. Like Elvis before it, common sense has left the building.

[dizzy]

On a practical note with twenty minutes between races is there going to be time to ask anyone about anything? Will the stewards even get back to the room to watch a replay?

[aussiebreno]

This thread might be as good as any to post this
Change of Tactics.

I read an article from a current/ex steward this morning.

From it I gathered in Hong Kongtrainers tell stewards COT, who don't pass the info on.
In Mauritius they write instructions on a peice of paper, put it in an envelope and it goes in a box, unread.

I think one reason behind COT is to protect drivers who Change tactics, but things turn awry (either through bad drive, horse gets beat, or it looks like they might be helping another horse). So, letting the tactics be known to stewards before the race will help them in the department. The implementation in Hong Kong and Mauritius is good imo. Punters don't need to know.

[Danno]

This thread might be as good as any to post this
Change of Tactics.

I read an article from a current/ex steward this morning.

From it I gathered in Hong Kongtrainers tell stewards COT, who don't pass the info on.
In Mauritius they write instructions on a peice of paper, put it in an envelope and it goes in a box, unread.

I think one reason behind COT is to protect drivers who Change tactics, but things turn awry (either through bad drive, horse gets beat, or it looks like they might be helping another horse). So, letting the tactics be known to stewards before the race will help them in the department. The implementation in Hong Kong and Mauritius is good imo. Punters don't need to know.

No doubt an improvement on what goes on here Brendan,drivers also should be allowed to deploy plan "B" or "C" as well without being automatically convicted, by that I mean drivers go into a race with an ideal game plan for success...only trouble is 9 other drivers have done the same thing and only one of ten is gunna get what he was designing,
I'll never forget many years ago, a bloke at work said to me " you should be putting your horses in the one out ,one back, i went to the trots the other night and nearly all the winners came from that spot"....brilliant thinking!!!trouble is about six or seven others had designs on that spot and only one was gunna get it!

cheers,
Dan