What a MASSIVE WANK!

[Triple V]

The Flying K Starts Monday

29 June 2012
by Adam Fairley


http://www.harness.org.au/news/images/logos/HRNSW-2.gif



http://www.harness.org.au/news/images/main/5635.jpg
Drivers will wear colour coded silks throughout The Flying K Series which commences on Monday 2 July @ Tabcorp Park Menangle.


The Flying K Series, named out of a successful facebook competition, begins next Monday, 2 July when the Bulli Harness Racing Club hosts seven heats at Tabcorp Park Menangle in the twilight timeslot.

Commencing at 4:28pm, horses will fly over a 1000 metre journey starting at the top of the back straight, rounding the bend and running home.
The Series consists of $3,000 heats covering all classes of horse from 3YO’s up to M1’s with heats to be held the first three Monday’s in July (2, 9 & 16). The $12,000 finals will be conducted on Monday, 23 July.
The Series is unique and has been programmed to entice punters and horse and hound followers to the sport of harness racing. The initiatives for the Series are as follows:



Heats are to be run at shortened intervals - keeping the action constant

All races over 1000 metres - fast paced action, no slowing down, more haste & more speed

All runners will carry coloured coded silks and saddle cloths - making it easier to follow your horse during the race

All meetings will be conducted in the twilight timeslot commencing at approx 4:30pm
HRNSW CEO Sam Nati said “There are many strategies aligned to this series. Clearly one of them is to cater for the after work pub crowd looking for some fast paced action. It’s also about new racing opportunities for horses that would not normally get the chance to be in a $12,000 final.”


Harness Racing NSW (HRNSW) is the controlling body for harness racing in New South Wales with responsibility for commercial and regulatory management of the industry including 31 racing clubs across the State. HRNSW is headed by an industry-appointed Board of Directors and is independent of Government.

[dizzy]

What was it you were saying about a demonstrably bad idea being worse then no idea at all?

[Triple V]

G'day Dot,
It's just such a shameless 'dropping of the dacks' to the TAB and with it such an offensive debasing of the Code. Left to their own devices they'll one day start pushing for colour coded Barbary Macaques strapped to Goats over 100m dashes. Absolutely disgraceful.
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2740/4362386952_86125c9ec7.jpg
Monkey dressed by Tedesco's. Goat supplied by Corinthian Byfold Doors.

[p plater]

Looking at the fields, only 3 races have a Pink runner and a total of 1 last start winner for the entire program. Horses with no form, distance no form, majority of races only have 2 place dividends. This is sure to be a winner on the tab.

[Mitch]

Good on them for trying something different. Based on field sizes you'd have to be pretty creative to come up with a justification to say it has worked. Hopefully those at HRNSW have the courage to admit they got it wrong. Time to start working on another innovation.

Not the end of world by any means.

[Lucky Camilla"s Lovechild]

The Flying K Starts Monday

29 June 2012
by Adam Fairley


http://www.harness.org.au/news/images/logos/HRNSW-2.gif



http://www.harness.org.au/news/images/main/5635.jpg
Drivers will wear colour coded silks throughout The Flying K Series which commences on Monday 2 July @ Tabcorp Park Menangle.


The Flying K Series, named out of a successful facebook competition, begins next Monday, 2 July when the Bulli Harness Racing Club hosts seven heats at Tabcorp Park Menangle in the twilight timeslot.

Commencing at 4:28pm, horses will fly over a 1000 metre journey starting at the top of the back straight, rounding the bend and running home.
The Series consists of $3,000 heats covering all classes of horse from 3YO’s up to M1’s with heats to be held the first three Monday’s in July (2, 9 & 16). The $12,000 finals will be conducted on Monday, 23 July.
The Series is unique and has been programmed to entice punters and horse and hound followers to the sport of harness racing. The initiatives for the Series are as follows:



Heats are to be run at shortened intervals - keeping the action constant

All races over 1000 metres - fast paced action, no slowing down, more haste & more speed

All runners will carry coloured coded silks and saddle cloths - making it easier to follow your horse during the race

All meetings will be conducted in the twilight timeslot commencing at approx 4:30pm
HRNSW CEO Sam Nati said “There are many strategies aligned to this series. Clearly one of them is to cater for the after work pub crowd looking for some fast paced action. It’s also about new racing opportunities for horses that would not normally get the chance to be in a $12,000 final.”


Harness Racing NSW (HRNSW) is the controlling body for harness racing in New South Wales with responsibility for commercial and regulatory management of the industry including 31 racing clubs across the State. HRNSW is headed by an industry-appointed Board of Directors and is independent of Government.
You probably didn't have to put the hand in your thread title VVV. We know what it is.

[dizzy]

No not the end of the world maybe Mitch? But some of us are pretty certain we can see it from where we are standing now

[Triple V]

Good on them for trying something different. Based on field sizes you'd have to be pretty creative to come up with a justification to say it has worked. Hopefully those at HRNSW have the courage to admit they got it wrong. Time to start working on another innovation.

Not the end of world by any means.

[VVV] G'day Mitch,

I don't have any problem with trying something innovative....but for mine there is a vast difference to be had between innovative & different.
For mine, this is not in any way, shape or form innovative....chop some 609m off the previously shortest/standard distance, put them all in Dog regalia and presto, look how innovative we are. No, rather it is just different for the sake of different being cloaked as innovative.

There's only one aspect I can see as able to be worked upon, improved & incorporated in the longer term picture of Harness Racing & that is the introduction of LARGE numbers on similarly good sized colour coded saddle cloths. Makes perfect sense.

On that score, interestingly when looking on via Sky generally it's impossible to see the TB's numbers in the running and NEVER with the naked eye trackside until they're well inside the last furlong but not a word there? Hmmm. I wonder...what sort of an answer do you think they'd get from Gerry Harvey or Singo by way of telling them they had to race a 2000m horse over a 5 furlong scamper whilst wearing 1 the Red or whatever?

On that Dog Colours aspect for Drivers, I call an ABJECT DISGRACE on that because, like their TB counterparts, Harness Owners should always have available to them the option of their driver carrying their own colours.
I see this sort of thing as the thin edge of the wedge.
It should be noted that down in VIC, Minty Man Number 1 dutifully banged on about this & similar TAB agenda serving crap for years and was ultimately rewarded with a slot at TAB Sportsbet...much like Bob Carr getting a slot at Macqaurie Bank, one can only assume for all assistances rendered during his tenure as NSW PM.
For mine, Owners Colours are an absolute non-negotiable & should this ridiculous push continue down its path...from my cold, dead fist those colours will have to be dragged.

As for those at HRNSW having the courage to admit they got it wrong, they're smarter than this and I think that they knew that it was wrong right from the outset.
I would much rather they had the courage to admit that they knew it was a waste of time and effort BUT the TAB strokers, both individual and collective, have leant on them & they simply acquiesced rather than standing firm, straight out calling Bullshit on the idea and telling them to go shove it up their clackers.

[gutwagon]

I hope the drivers will be wearing muzzles.

[p plater]

Jamie you are spot on on colours, encourage owners to have their own as well as trainers colours, I would imagine quite a few punters follow horses wearing certain colours. There is one other experiment with this program which is dog like, races 3 to 6 all within an hour (20 minute spacing), no question this is a TAB thing.

[aussiebreno]

[VVV] G'day Mitch,

I don't have any problem with trying something innovative....but for mine there is a vast difference to be had between innovative & different.
For mine, this is not in any way, shape or form innovative....chop some 609m off the previously shortest/standard distance, put them all in Dog regalia and presto, look how innovative we are. No, rather it is just different for the sake of different being cloaked as innovative.

There's only one aspect I can see as able to be worked upon, improved & incorporated in the longer term picture of Harness Racing & that is the introduction of LARGE numbers on similarly good sized colour coded saddle cloths. Makes perfect sense.

On that score, interestingly when looking on via Sky generally it's impossible to see the TB's numbers in the running and NEVER with the naked eye trackside until they're well inside the last furlong but not a word there? Hmmm. I wonder...what sort of an answer do you think they'd get from Gerry Harvey or Singo by way of telling them they had to race a 2000m horse over a 5 furlong scamper whilst wearing 1 the Red or whatever?

On that Dog Colours aspect for Drivers, I call an ABJECT DISGRACE on that because, like their TB counterparts, Harness Owners should always have available to them the option of their driver carrying their own colours.
I see this sort of thing as the thin edge of the wedge.
It should be noted that down in VIC, Minty Man Number 1 dutifully banged on about this & similar TAB agenda serving crap for years and was ultimately rewarded with a slot at TAB Sportsbet...much like Bob Carr getting a slot at Macqaurie Bank, one can only assume for all assistances rendered during his tenure as NSW PM.
For mine, Owners Colours are an absolute non-negotiable & should this ridiculous push continue down its path...from my cold, dead fist those colours will have to be dragged.

As for those at HRNSW having the courage to admit they got it wrong, they're smarter than this and I think that they knew that it was wrong right from the outset.
I would much rather they had the courage to admit that they knew it was a waste of time and effort BUT the TAB strokers, both individual and collective, have leant on them & they simply acquiesced rather than standing firm, straight out calling Bullshit on the idea and telling them to go shove it up their clackers.

FYI John Singleton actually has/had some pacers. Darcy Harpley from Temora has had the training duties.

[dizzy]

Agree Jamie large numbers on colour coded saddlecloths would be a much better innovation. Gives us two options to help people/punters identify runners-colour and number. Similarly our graphics on the screen during the running of races with names and driver colours is very detailed but is it best? Can most of our customers see clearly enough to identify this information readily from the screen or should we along with the colour coded large numbers go to the transponder technology used elsewhere that displays the position of runners in the race in a continuously updated graphic display? The race caller of course continues to use names and a narrative of position in the race. I don't know what the answer is to which option is better but surely there are methods to survey our customers, the punter, to find out. This is the sort of innovation we should be seeking out.

I'm not at all in favour of allocating "dog colours" to drivers as I think along with recognisable horses being of benefit to turnover I think punters also being able to recognise drivers is of benefit to turnover. Whilst Jamie and others are passionate about owner colours I would quite happily use driver colours on my horses if it would assist our income from turnover.

[Triple V]

G'day Dot,
There are a few reasons why I am so passionate about retaining Owners Colours and therefore stomping all over, pounding into the ground and obliterating any and all attempts to make it otherwise...many of them personal/sentimental ones I admit...but not the least of which is the simple fact that when a horse wins, the Trainer & the Driver will get nearly all if not all the attention/exposure/focus in Industry & associated media...while all poor old mate Owner gets is a quick happy snap beside his horse with the majority of those assembled trackside turning to each other and asking "Who's that fat bastard?" or similar.
The one small amount of solice afforded them an Owners is to have their horse race in their colours...and even then here we are, at a point and place in time where clearly some absolute dickhead in a pre-fab cubicle somewhere in the TAB Offices at ULTIMO is trying his level best to take that away.
As I said, from my dead, clenched fist...

[aussiebreno]

G'day Dot,
There are a few reasons why I am so passionate about retaining Owners Colours and therefore stomping all over, pounding into the ground and obliterating any and all attempts to make it otherwise...many of them personal/sentimental ones I admit...but not the least of which is the simple fact that when a horse wins, the Trainer & the Driver will get nearly all if not all the attention/exposure/focus in Industry & associated media...while all poor old mate Owner gets is a quick happy snap beside his horse with the majority of those assembled trackside turning to each other and asking "Who's that fat bastard?" or similar.
The one small amount of solice afforded them an Owners is to have their horse race in their colours...and even then here we are, at a point and place in time where clearly some absolute dickhead in a pre-fab cubicle somewhere in the TAB Offices at Pyrmont is trying his level best to take that away.
As I said, from my dead, clenched fist...
Speak for yourself chubby :)

[broncobrad]

Heat 1 6 Vinnies Falcon, 7 Tessace

Heat 2 1 Snukered just wins

Heat 3 2 Gotta Go Under Fire, 5 Kiwi Montana, 3 Billy Khan

Heat 4 2 Marshall Bromac SPECIAL

Heat 5 5 Theartofattitude, 1 Zany Dune

Heat 6 Have A Beer :p

Heat 7 No Eye Deer :confused:

Sprint lane might not be a bad idea today.

C'mon Triple, get into the spirit.

[Mitch]

No not the end of the world maybe Mitch? But some of us are pretty certain we can see it from where we are standing now

C'mon Dot... That is a ridiculous statement. Sure the industry has seen better times but to say the end is in sight is a bit silly. I don't want to engage in a debate over this because it will just go round in circles but if you honestly think that of the industry maybe you should get out before your hand is forced!

[Mitch]

[VVV] G'day Mitch,

I don't have any problem with trying something innovative....but for mine there is a vast difference to be had between innovative & different.
For mine, this is not in any way, shape or form innovative....chop some 609m off the previously shortest/standard distance, put them all in Dog regalia and presto, look how innovative we are. No, rather it is just different for the sake of different being cloaked as innovative.

There's only one aspect I can see as able to be worked upon, improved & incorporated in the longer term picture of Harness Racing & that is the introduction of LARGE numbers on similarly good sized colour coded saddle cloths. Makes perfect sense.

On that score, interestingly when looking on via Sky generally it's impossible to see the TB's numbers in the running and NEVER with the naked eye trackside until they're well inside the last furlong but not a word there? Hmmm. I wonder...what sort of an answer do you think they'd get from Gerry Harvey or Singo by way of telling them they had to race a 2000m horse over a 5 furlong scamper whilst wearing 1 the Red or whatever?

On that Dog Colours aspect for Drivers, I call an ABJECT DISGRACE on that because, like their TB counterparts, Harness Owners should always have available to them the option of their driver carrying their own colours.
I see this sort of thing as the thin edge of the wedge.
It should be noted that down in VIC, Minty Man Number 1 dutifully banged on about this & similar TAB agenda serving crap for years and was ultimately rewarded with a slot at TAB Sportsbet...much like Bob Carr getting a slot at Macqaurie Bank, one can only assume for all assistances rendered during his tenure as NSW PM.
For mine, Owners Colours are an absolute non-negotiable & should this ridiculous push continue down its path...from my cold, dead fist those colours will have to be dragged.

As for those at HRNSW having the courage to admit they got it wrong, they're smarter than this and I think that they knew that it was wrong right from the outset.
I would much rather they had the courage to admit that they knew it was a waste of time and effort BUT the TAB strokers, both individual and collective, have leant on them & they simply acquiesced rather than standing firm, straight out calling Bullshit on the idea and telling them to go shove it up their clackers.

Jaimie, love your passion. Not sure my comments prompted such a response as you have provided but if helps you get it off your chest so be it.

[Triple V]

Jaimie, love your passion. Not sure my comments prompted such a response as you have provided but if helps you get it off your chest so be it.

[VVV] No, they didn't Mitch...rather I was just clearing the air as to why I thought that way, that's all. The BIG problem is that this crap has gone viral and I hear on the grapevine that WA are going to try this same routine. :(

[aussiebreno]

The big question is what are the required minimum sectional times for these 1000m races?

[Triple V]

I intend to use the time that is allocated for those races as Coffee breaks in-between races at Charlton, Albion Park, Globe Derby & Pinjarra. Might even knock up a batch of Blueberry Muffins.

[dizzy]

C'mon Dot... That is a ridiculous statement. Sure the industry has seen better times but to say the end is in sight is a bit silly. I don't want to engage in a debate over this because it will just go round in circles but if you honestly think that of the industry maybe you should get out before your hand is forced!

No debate Mitch but you have proven previously that you are good with numbers, so perhaps you could look into some of the critical ones for the industry and decide for yourself just where we are positioned. Apart from afore mentioned turnover and field sizes, give consideration to the number of licensed participants, number of broodmares, stallion services, foal numbers, race meetings, races, yearling sale results, prizemoney increases with regard to inflation, positive articles in the press etc.

As to getting out-funny you should say that, I am actually deliberating on an exit strategy right now though I expect it will be around a 5 year plan. I look forward to racing the foals I have due this year and intend to repeat those matings this year, after those foals I expect I will be breeding TB's -spent an enjoyable day at the TB weanling sales just last week!

[broncobrad]

I intend to use the time that is allocated for those races as Coffee breaks in-between races at Charlton, Albion Park, Globe Derby & Pinjarra. Might even knock up a batch of Blueberry Muffins.

Have been missing your humour lately...glad to see you have still got it. Try Ladybirds recipe, its a winner.

http://diaryofaladybird.blogspot.com.au/2011/06/best-ever-blueberry-muffins.html

[dizzy]

G'day Dot,
There are a few reasons why I am so passionate about retaining Owners Colours and therefore stomping all over, pounding into the ground and obliterating any and all attempts to make it otherwise...many of them personal/sentimental ones I admit...but not the least of which is the simple fact that when a horse wins, the Trainer & the Driver will get nearly all if not all the attention/exposure/focus in Industry & associated media...while all poor old mate Owner gets is a quick happy snap beside his horse with the majority of those assembled trackside turning to each other and asking "Who's that fat bastard?" or similar.
The one small amount of solice afforded them an Owners is to have their horse race in their colours...and even then here we are, at a point and place in time where clearly some absolute dickhead in a pre-fab cubicle somewhere in the TAB Offices at Pyrmont is trying his level best to take that away.
As I said, from my dead, clenched fist...

Driver colours needn't be compulsory Jamie just another option to trainer/owner colours. If driver identification is a "driver" of turnover then perhaps clubs or HRNSW could consider refunding the driving fee to those connections that opt to use recognisable drivers in the drivers (probably different to the drivers training colours) colours as compensation for the owners own lack of recognition.

On that point- owner recognition -do we do enough to reward our owners for their contribution to the sport in terms of recognition/their "owning experience" or is this an area we can improve and perhaps actract more owners? Obviously prizemoney increases improve owners bottom lines but is it more money they want or is it a better experience?

[aussiebreno]

Last two races some late scratchings.

Harwood Hilton injured a paw getting out of his kennel this morning.
Westera Babe weighed in too heavy after consuming too much Pedigree last night.

Word is some horses that fail at this meeting are already on their last chances so could, unfortunately, end up in Pedigree in the not too distant future.

[Triple V]

Have been missing your humour lately...glad to see you have still got it. Try Ladybirds recipe, its a winner.

http://diaryofaladybird.blogspot.com.au/2011/06/best-ever-blueberry-muffins.html

[VVV] Thanks for the recipe Brad, on the cooling rack now and they look pretty good.

[Mitch]

No debate Mitch but you have proven previously that you are good with numbers, so perhaps you could look into some of the critical ones for the industry and decide for yourself just where we are positioned. Apart from afore mentioned turnover and field sizes, give consideration to the number of licensed participants, number of broodmares, stallion services, foal numbers, race meetings, races, yearling sale results, prizemoney increases with regard to inflation, positive articles in the press etc.

As to getting out-funny you should say that, I am actually deliberating on an exit strategy right now though I expect it will be around a 5 year plan. I look forward to racing the foals I have due this year and intend to repeat those matings this year, after those foals I expect I will be breeding TB's -spent an enjoyable day at the TB weanling sales just last week!

Dot, If you value my opinion in the slightest listen up. Breeding thoroughbreds is a fools game. Unless you have a black type young mare and deep pockets forget it! Even then there are no guarantees. I sold one at the weanling sales last week.... without giving too much away it was in the top 5 priced lots in the general sale and I'm still out of pocket. Surely the prices they were going for turned you off breeding to sell.... 99% of people who sold in the general sale would have lost money. And most of the top lots in the select sale were buybacks or arranged purchases.

I am selling up all my thoroughbred assets and buying more pacers to race. Trust me it's 100 times easier to get your money back. Anyway I'm off topic here.....

[aussiebreno]

An early look at the NSW TAB results show todays turnover was below last Mondays Bankstown meeting and well, well below the Monday menangle meeting a fortnight ago.

[broncobrad]

An early look at the NSW TAB results show todays turnover was below last Mondays Bankstown meeting and well, well below the Monday menangle meeting a fortnight ago.

A massive wank? No. A concept doomed to failure? Probably. The industry lives or dies on betting turnover and with no reason to doubt Brendans figures, the experiment will eventually be consigned to the scrap heap. Personally, I found the racing visually exciting and fair, in that it favoured leaders and swoopers alike and short priced favourites did not dominate the day, in fact only one odds-on fav saluted. What I found disappointing today was these guys were racing for $3,000 whilst over in S.A in a matinee meeting they held a 2yo Trot worth $6,000. For a club flush with cash, thats a bit of an insult to participants in NSW.

[G-Mac]

What I found disappointing today was these guys were racing for $3,000 whilst over in S.A in a matinee meeting they held a 2yo Trot worth $6,000. For a club flush with cash, thats a bit of an insult to participants in NSW.

For half a race they had half the prizemoney? Seems fair....

[Triple V]

What I found disappointing today was these guys were racing for $3,000 whilst over in S.A in a matinee meeting they held a 2yo Trot worth $6,000. For a club flush with cash, thats a bit of an insult to participants in NSW.

[VVV] G'day Brad. Can't follow your line of thinking there. Why should the NSWHRC feel in any way compelled to fully fund an excursion into the absurd by HRNSW which comes at the behest of the NSWTAB?

[Triple V]

An early look at the NSW TAB results show todays turnover was below last Mondays Bankstown meeting and well, well below the Monday menangle meeting a fortnight ago.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J6_1Pw1xm9U (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J6_1Pw1xm9U)?
To many, I suspect not in the slightest.For anyone in any area of the Industry to have, at any stage, entertained thoughts that it would be otherwise merely underlines that they’re delusional or otherwise saluting the flag & lining up with the greater philosophy behind all this crap...the NSW TAB's rather thinly disguised desire to turn Harness Racing into a 1000m equine version of the churn and burn that is Dog Lotto.

Rgds

Jaimie

[broncobrad]

For half a race they had half the prizemoney? Seems fair....

C'mon Glen, they aren't paying them by the metre in prizemoney. If they were looking for curtain material, then that would be different. They are racing on the flagship track of NSW, participants are providing the product and if they go well enough, deserve to be recompensed as equally as they would be any other Monday they race at Menangle. To draw a comparison (which may help shoot myself in the foot), men and women get equal prizemoney in tennis, even though the girls only have to play three sets.

[broncobrad]

[VVV] G'day Brad. Can't follow your line of thinking there. Why should the NSWHRC feel in any way compelled to fully fund an excursion into the absurd by HRNSW which comes at the behest of the NSWTAB?

Hey Jaimie, hope those muffins tasted good. Similarly, along the same lines as my response to G Mac. After all the trumpeting about increased prizemoney in NSW, the club does not support the connections who supported the concept. Smacks a bit of 5 bob eachway to me. If the mugs do bring their nags to the track and the concept is deemed a failure, NSWHRC can turn around and say we didn't outlay a lot, not much damage done and move on to the next initiative. But if the NSWHRC had the courage to stand by their conviction in that if they are going to hold the series at Menangle, then they should meet their obligations (obligations may be too strong a word) as they always do on a Monday afternoon and put up the $5,000 prizemoney they normally do.

Some quick comparisons of yesterdays day meetings reveal that while they raced for $3,000 in Sydney, they compared poorly to Charlton $5,000 and Pinjarra mostly $5,700. Thats a disgrace and is little reward for NSW participants who supported the concept.

They race at Bankstown for $3,000 on Mondays, thats a given. But when at Menangle on Monday afternoons it is always $5,000. Why should these guys get penalised? What makes them second rate particpants? They did actually race at a registered meeting. It wasn't a gymkhana. And I thought the racing was great.

[Triple V]

The Club is BULLI Brad, not Menangle.
They raced at Menangle, it is a Bulli Club 'R' meeting for applicable prizemoney.
They're not 2nd rate participants by any means however by and large those are horses that are struggling to win a quid anywhere else and for them a shot at a 3k Heat/12k Final does not come along often, if at all...if ever.
I think the concept is a real wank... but the opportunity for the owners of those horses to get $$$something$$$ back is obviously too good to refuse.

[Triple V]

Btw Brad, before you sink the slipper too deeply into the NSWHRC, you'll note that at today's Menangle meeting and for all subsequent meetings they've kicked the official tin along to the tune of each 'C' class race going off for $7,000 as opposed to the previous $5,500...and this they did entirely of their own volition and from the proceeds of the Race Fields Legislation due the Club. It comes from nowhere else but their own account.
One wonders what other Clubs will do with theirs? Will they similarly kick the tins at their tracks?

[broncobrad]

The Club is BULLI Brad, not Menangle.
They raced at Menangle, it is a Bulli Club 'R' meeting for applicable prizemoney.
They're not 2nd rate participants by any means however by and large those are horses that are struggling to win a quid anywhere else and for them a shot at a 3k Heat/12k Final does not come along often, if at all...if ever.
I think the concept is a real wank... but the opportunity for the owners of those horses to get $$$something$$$ back is obviously too good to refuse.

Jaimie it was Bulli at Menangle on the 4 June and 18 June at Menangle as well when they raced for $5,000, not the $3,000 they put on yesterday. And yes there is a $12,000 final which is great, but don't you think it is a bit of a disservice (is that spelt right?) to the owners who would normally race for higher P/M at these meetings? ( putting aside that you think its a wank )

[Triple V]

That is still not the NSWHRC, that is Bulli.

[broncobrad]

Btw Brad, before you sink the slipper too deeply into the NSWHRC, you'll note that at today's Menangle meeting and for all subsequent meetings they've kicked the official tin along to the tune of each 'C' class race going off for $7,000 as opposed to the previous $5,500...and this they did entirely of their own volition and from the proceeds of the Race Fields Legislation due the Club. It comes from nowhere else but their own account.
One wonders what other Clubs will do with theirs? Will they similarly kick the tins at their tracks?

And that is great. Who knows what other clubs will do. They all have their own little issues.

[aussiebreno]

All the heat and final series around Wagga have $3000 (restricted) heats and a $5000 (country) final.
Not sure there is much in it tbh brad.

[David Summers]

I watched this snorefest yesterday. Nothing against struggling owners, trainers or drivers trying to earn a few bucks , but PLEASE , as any sort of spectacle or betting proposition , was pathetic.

Interested to hear Fred Hastings before the first race ( and I am certain it was tongue in cheek / sarcasm) , that " APPARENTLY Harness NSW officials had a lot of feedback saying they wanted shorter races and use of greyhound rug colours for drivers". Note his use of the word "apparently".

No I don't believe a word of the so-called overwhelming request from the harness fraternity / public for races shorter than one mile and if you want to see greyhound rug colours in races stick to Wentworth Park dogs.

I think another three weeks of this rubbish concept , then please bury it forever.

[broncobrad]

That is still not the NSWHRC, that is Bulli.


I see the error of my way Jaimie. Thankyou.

[broncobrad]

Just had a quick look at the interviews on Trots TV...it would appear there is a bit of acceptance of the concept within the trainer/driver ranks.

http://www.trotstv.com.au/?id=5180

That cold dead hand Charlton Heston mantra may well be put to the test:)

[Triple V]

Nah, you're not alone in that boat. I've no doubt heaps of people think/consider that they are one and the same.
To that end I can understand any concerns a Club such as Penrith might have by way of moving to a shared facility Eastern Creek.

[Triple V]

Just had a quick look at the interviews on Trots TV...it would appear there is a bit of acceptance of the concept within the trainer/driver ranks.

http://www.trotstv.com.au/?id=5180

That cold dead hand Charlton Heston mantra may well be put to the test:)


[VVV] Ahuh. Some none too subtle leading questions there from Mick. Dale's been writing his material again. Mick even asks the question and as Emma begins to answer he nods his head to give her the signal to agree with what he just said. No way either of them ever get to frame the language for a Referendum. :rolleyes:

[broncobrad]

Oh you old cynic you. Do you think any of the interviews hit the cutting room floor?

Micks favourite out takes?

(There you go Triple, a couple of mares fighting out the first today in the trot)

[Triple V]

Plenty. Dale keeps getting Mick to ask the same question of various people until they get the answer they want and that's the one they go with. :rolleyes:
...and might I say, a good result in the Trot too.
The Pearl Of Paris, trained and driven by L. Dawson for his Mum. Now 2 starts in Oz, 2 wins.
She's as tough as old goats knees, just keeps coming and Moyabamba heard the footsteps.
Laurence has her eating right, looking right & shod right & he drove her beautifully. They'd be thrilled.

[G-Mac]

C'mon Glen, they aren't paying them by the metre in prizemoney. If they were looking for curtain material, then that would be different. They are racing on the flagship track of NSW, participants are providing the product and if they go well enough, deserve to be recompensed as equally as they would be any other Monday they race at Menangle. To draw a comparison (which may help shoot myself in the foot), men and women get equal prizemoney in tennis, even though the girls only have to play three sets.

I was being facetious Brad.

[broncobrad]

I was being facetious Brad.

Sorry Glen, some of us are a bit slow up this way.

[2minuteman]

Put aside the likes/dislikes of the Flying? and ponder this.
The brains trust put together something different and from a marketing view it has some things to sell to the punters.Short,sharp,different tactics,money for the next bet quicker,less time between races, etc.etc.
So from a marketing perspective what did we see,apart from a puff piece or two in the Industry Press?
Nothing,not a bloody thing.Obviously they do not care about driving interest in the wider punting public.
QUESTION,DOES THE INDUSTRY HAVE A PUBLICITY/MEDIA officer? If yes,what does he/she do to earn their money.SFA I would suggest.

[aussiebreno]

Put aside the likes/dislikes of the Flying? and ponder this.
The brains trust put together something different and from a marketing view it has some things to sell to the punters.Short,sharp,different tactics,money for the next bet quicker,less time between races, etc.etc.
So from a marketing perspective what did we see,apart from a puff piece or two in the Industry Press?
Nothing,not a bloody thing.Obviously they do not care about driving interest in the wider punting public.
QUESTION,DOES THE INDUSTRY HAVE A PUBLICITY/MEDIA officer? If yes,what does he/she do to earn their money.SFA I would suggest.
Not sure I can back you up there 2minuteman. Two prodomenently thoroughbred forums had members mention the Flying K. In one forum it was in a non-harness thread by somebody who I had never seen post anything about harness racing. I don't have Sky on at home but seen stuff on Sky at the pub on Saturday night.
Obviously not perfect marketing if you didn't see it, but they did do a bit.

[dizzy]

Dot, If you value my opinion in the slightest listen up. Breeding thoroughbreds is a fools game. Unless you have a black type young mare and deep pockets forget it! Even then there are no guarantees. I sold one at the weanling sales last week.... without giving too much away it was in the top 5 priced lots in the general sale and I'm still out of pocket. Surely the prices they were going for turned you off breeding to sell.... 99% of people who sold in the general sale would have lost money. And most of the top lots in the select sale were buybacks or arranged purchases.

I am selling up all my thoroughbred assets and buying more pacers to race. Trust me it's 100 times easier to get your money back. Anyway I'm off topic here.....

Mitch Whilst I appreciate your concerns for my intentions they are not warranted, I have been around the gallops much longer then the harness racing- we were there to buy not sell as it is well known in the TB industry that this sale in particular is a buyers market. If you are breeding for the yearling sales then yes you need black type and deep pockets, but I never said it was my intention to breed for the sales, I have another market in mind.

Don't let me discourage you from investing in harness racing as harness racing could certainly use it, but I hope you are the type of person that undertakes due diligence before taking on a significant investment in anything including gallops/harness racing.

Back on topic, Jamie has done an excellant job of blowing smoke here, loudly and soundly blaming the TAB for our "greyhound" experiment, I'm sure harness racing administrators have breathed a sigh of relief each time he has as it obscurred the real problem here. Perhaps the TAB did call for it, but don't you think that a little strange given that in QLD the wagering operators publicly called for an INCREASE in field size to improve turnover, yet Jamie would have us believe in NSW they called for a decrease in field size? Does anyone really believe that this experiment could really work? That we could do "greyhound" racing better then greyhounds do? The real problem is that we do not have the infrastructure (tracks) in NSW to increase field sizes to improve turnover. Nor do we have enough participants/horses to provide full fields on the tracks we do have, hence we are restricted to initiatives that reduce field sizes in an attempt to disguise the shortfall.

Twice now theHRNSW CEO has called for a 1000m track in Sydney, I'll bet he didn't have a 10 across the front configuration in mind, but it seems to have fallen on deaf ears. I'm sure Sam himself will tell you there are things that he and I do not see eye to eye on but he is absolutely right on this one. Unfortunately he hasn't yet come up with a better strategy to fund it then sell a piece of real estate the industry doesn't own, and those who are custodians of a large amount of the industries money seem content to continue on with their own interests rather then the interests of the industry as a whole.

It is ridiculous to think that we can even survive, let alone prosper, modeling our racing on the greyhounds, they have a high volume low turnover low cost product model, and bitches that can whelp multiple pups a year. The bottom line is if we are to survive (and don't kid yourself that the money from the HP sale won't run out) then we need a better product modelled on yes you guessed it harness racing.

And Brad Jamie did blow a little more smoke, yes it absolutely was a Bulli at Menangle restricted grade meeting that trialled the concept thus it was $3000 races, but to say it was entirely the idea of HRNSW and the Bulli club is somewhat deceptive. The Bulli "secretary" is also Menangle's racing manager and as we dont have centralised programming yet then the "joint" club had a say.

[Triple V]

Geeze Dot, if you think this ridiculous idea was spawned by any organisation other than the NSW TAB then you are mistaken.
In addition, if you geuinely wish to line up on smoke blowers then may I suggest you look a little closer to home? Some of the Press Releases ex Bankstown make Bill Steam Shovel from Mr. Squiggle look environmentally friendly.
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2035/2397420756_9c3c270278.jpg
As for this bit...
QUOTE [yet Jamie would have us believe in NSW they called for a decrease in field size?] END QUOTE
Mystify, mystify me. Dot, you're going to have to let me in on the joke here, if it is one...or if not then at least explain that. I don't recall ever having said anything of the sort or even anything remotely close to it.

[mango]

Hey Dot

You say the CEO has called for a 1000m track in Sydney, i'd agree with you that he has. Do you and Sam understand that Harness Racing is happening outside of the city limits which seem's to be neglected all of the time. If there was ever a place for a 1000m track it would be Bathurst. Maybe to increase the field size's we need to cut back on some of the tracks we race on and by doing this the tracks we race at more will get money to do there infrastructure up through the racecourse developement fund that's if it hasn't already been wasted.

[dizzy]

Jamie one day you will come to realise that I think AT Bankstown, not ABOUT Bankstown. I don't know who's idea it was, the point is that our infrastructure does not allow for what is known to improve turnover-larger fields and nor if it did could we right now provide the horses, hence the only option is initiatives that utilise smaller fields. Jamie you said it was the tab who wanted the greyhound "innovation" greyhound fields are 8 hence in wanting a greyhound innitiative they the tab wanted to reduce our field size to 8.

Mango I know harness racing happens at Bathurst and other places but you need to stop thinking about what participants want or think they need and focus on our primary income source- turnover from the punter. I've no doubt a 1000m track would be good for the participants at Bathurst but can you assure me the 4.6 million people in Sydney would wager as much on a 1000m track at Bathurst, population 40,000 as they would on a 1000m track in Sydney? If so then I'd be only too happy for it to be built at Bathurst. Melton does not turnover as much as Moonee Valley did, and they only moved about 30 minutes out of town.

Cutting down on tracks obviously could release money to be spent on infrastructure at other tracks but always comes with a reduction in the number of licensed participants, something we can ill afford.

[Triple V]

Jamie you said it was the tab who wanted the greyhound "innovation" greyhound fields are 8 hence in wanting a greyhound innitiative they the tab wanted to reduce our field size to 8.

[VVV] Huh?????? Don't you think there's a fair bit of 'a fish swims, a duck swims...therefore a fish is a duck' about that Dot? The Dishlickers have a couple of spares anyway don't they? The 10 across field at Menangle could be covered in Dog Regalia from the rail out. What an 'overwhelming desire to consume large quantities of Stematil' inducing spectacle that would be. :(

[dizzy]

Then what are/were you saying the TAB called for Jamie? A 10 horse "greyhound" race?

[Triple V]

The TAB have been pushing Harness Racing for years and years to have shorter races...all over the Mile or even shorter if they could get away with it...and they have also been pushing for years to replace Owners colours with the obligatory Dishlicker robes or similar. Colours wise, old mate Minty Man Number 1 down in VIC spouted the official Party Line numerous times on Sky, ITG and so on and he was duly rewarded with a slot at TAB Sportsbet. Call me a cynic. The TAB sponsor both Melton & Menangle...the prefix TABCorp Park is the hint there.
That's all well and good, they rightly should kick the tin...but every so often they call in their marker when the pre-fab office pertitions get the best of the drones at Pyrmont and they seek to break out in search of something better. Someone sitting in the confines of the aforementioned came up with this idea and has attached his star to it, hoping to become a shooting one within the organisation...and there you have it. Dog Regalia, shortened races, strongly suggest to HRNSW that it be trialled, maybe one or two within said organisation a little too willing to give it a run...no doubt in the hope that in return for their support of such 'initiatives' they may one day be smiled upon and get to take their place alongside Minty Man Number 1 at TAB Sportsbet. It's no more or less complicated than that. It's Harness Racing's version of ACTU Presidents using the Union as a stepping stone to Federal Labor.

[mango]

Hi Dot

With Bathurst racing approx 48 time's per year and having good field size's i think there product would grow with a 1000m track, if Penrith could extend there track i'd agree there is a place in Sydney for a bigger track but if not i can't see it happening without wasting industry funds.

[mango]

Hi Adam

Just a question for you as you would have the info, how was the turnover compared to other monday meeting's run at Menangle.

[Triple V]

Far be it from me to defend Adam's role in this, he and Sam and Dale all know what I think of it...hence the title of this Thread...however I think it's also a bit unfair to suggest that nobody has heard anything much about it.
It wasn't anything like the initial poor noms for the 1st Heat of The Girlfriend Series, which came largely as a result of pretty much the only persons who knew about it being Adam, the Printer and the Postman. :rolleyes:
Rather, a surprisingly large number of people, both Industry & otherwise, either knew about it and had also watched it or knew about it and mentioned it to me afterwards by way of asking how I thought it went.
I didn't give it a glowing review (no surprise) but at least they were reached, which in and of itself proves that they can be reached once again.

[Greg Hando]

Why can't the races be run over the mile with the same race condition's ? Sam said it is to give the horse's a chance at racing in a $12,000 final, well run it over a proper distance so at least the horse and sire and dam get a better time for them on paper surely this would be better than a Thoroughbred distance with Greyhound colour's and a race win you don't get a time for.
Coloured number's i agree is good but the driver's colour i don't. If my horse race's i want my colour's on not a dog's colour on the driver.

[2minuteman]

Rather, a surprisingly large number of people, both Industry & otherwise, either knew about it and had also watched it or knew about it and mentioned it to me afterwards by way of asking how I thought it went.
I didn't give it a glowing review (no surprise) but at least they were reached, which in and of itself proves that they can be reached once again.
I accept that there was some mentions in the industry press and acknowledged the same in my post.That was not the point I was trying to make,however if that is regarded as "Marketing" and accepted as such I give up.
As for the quote outlined above,I ask,a surprisingly large number? Compared to what?

[Triple V]

About dozen or so...as compared to what I expected, which was none.

[Triple V]

Why can't the races be run over the mile with the same race condition's ? Sam said it is to give the horse's a chance at racing in a $12,000 final, well run it over a proper distance so at least the horse and sire and dam get a better time for them on paper surely this would be better than a Thoroughbred distance with Greyhound colour's and a race win you don't get a time for.
Coloured number's i agree is good but the driver's colour i don't. If my horse race's i want my colour's on not a dog's colour on the driver.

BINGO! Greg goes straight to the top of the Class.

[dizzy]

Hi Dot

With Bathurst racing approx 48 time's per year and having good field size's i think there product would grow with a 1000m track, if Penrith could extend there track i'd agree there is a place in Sydney for a bigger track but if not i can't see it happening without wasting industry funds.

Mango I didn't ask you if Bathurst could grow its turnover with a 1000m track as I'm already sure it could, I asked if you could assure me punters would wager more on a 1000m track at Bathurst then a 1000m track in Sydney. If funds are limited to building only one 1000m track initially then to me its a no brainer that the first track must be located where it would generate the most revenue. If you can show that that is in Bathurst then build it in Bathurst.

Mango if you where going to open a restaurant would you located it closer to your suppliers or would you locate it closer to your customers?

[dizzy]

Exactly Greg, that was smoke from HRNSW, there was absolutely no reason, unless the 12000 finals was sponsorship from someone who demanded 1000m races, that you cant run a rich heat and final over regular distances for average/ordinary horses

[Triple V]

Re: Bathurst, it's already well underway Troops. I was told the plans for a 1000m track to be built at Bathurst on the old Saleyards site went before Council the Monday after the most recent Gold Crown/Tiara Carnival.

[mango]

Hi Dot

Punters rarely go to the track so i won't buy into your population theory, they bet online or in the pub and will bet on race's anywhere. So you saying it's a no brainer makes me laugh. As a guess i'd say you live in Sydney and are pushing for one of the tracks to get finacial support to build a bigger track and i'd be near right on the money it's not Penrith. I said Bathurst due to the horse pool they can pull from and due to the allocated number of race meeting's they recieve at the present time. As for saying who would generate more revenue Bathurst or a new track in sydney i couldn't tell you, we would have to look at current turnover of Bathurst and the club you think should get a bigger track.

[dizzy]

C'mmon Mango "guess I live in Sydney" you read the forum Jamie cannot help himself, he has mentioned on just about every thread I've posted on I'm at Bankstown but if you think I'm pushing for a bigger track at Bankstown you are so far off the mark it isn't funny. I'm am the first person to tell you that it wouldn't fit and secondly our population in Bankstown is becoming predominantly Muslim, a religion that doesn't drink or gamble and absolutely the wrong population demographic for a racetrack of any kind unless you have millions of dollars from oil wells already.

What I said was a no brainer was locating the track where it will generate the most money. And what we need to do to find out is ASK the betting agencies and their customers, the punter, where they bet the most before we build it anywhere. I'm sure their answer would be along the lines of metropolitan area first, metro outskirts second, then country areas. I may be wrong but if I am then perhaps you could suggest to the Australian Turf Club that the $170 million they are spending on Randwick should have been spent at Bathurst.

[mango]

I agree with what the ATC are doing Dot and Randwick will be a great set up, where would you suggest they build a 1000m track in the city as i would love to hear your thoughts. They have Menangle why would you want to build another one when you could use that track multiple time's a wk such as they do at the Meadowlands and use the facilities they are building there, it seem's pointless to me to waste money in building a new track close by. Extending the Penrith track would be the best option that is if Penrith can be extended. Punter's will bet anywhere Dot whether it be metro or country, you give them the product and form and they will lay there money. The thing that does make it harder for country tracks is the time slot and day they are given to run there race's.

[aussiebreno]

C'mmon Mango "guess I live in Sydney" you read the forum Jamie cannot help himself, he has mentioned on just about every thread I've posted on I'm at Bankstown but if you think I'm pushing for a bigger track at Bankstown you are so far off the mark it isn't funny. I'm am the first person to tell you that it wouldn't fit and secondly our population in Bankstown is becoming predominantly Muslim, a religion that doesn't drink or gamble and absolutely the wrong population demographic for a racetrack of any kind unless you have millions of dollars from oil wells already.

What I said was a no brainer was locating the track where it will generate the most money. And what we need to do to find out is ASK the betting agencies and their customers, the punter, where they bet the most before we build it anywhere. I'm sure their answer would be along the lines of metropolitan area first, metro outskirts second, then country areas. I may be wrong but if I am then perhaps you could suggest to the Australian Turf Club that the $170 million they are spending on Randwick should have been spent at Bathurst.
Isn't the ATC akin to the NSWHRC while Racing NSW is akin to HRNSW. Point being that just as NSWHRC spends money on Menangle, ATC spends money on the city clubs.

[Triple V]

C'mmon Mango "guess I live in Sydney" you read the forum Jamie cannot help himself, he has mentioned on just about every thread I've posted on I'm at Bankstown but if you think I'm pushing for a bigger track at Bankstown you are so far off the mark it isn't funny. I'm am the first person to tell you that it wouldn't fit and secondly our population in Bankstown is becoming predominantly Muslim, a religion that doesn't drink or gamble and absolutely the wrong population demographic for a racetrack of any kind unless you have millions of dollars from oil wells already.

[VVV] You forgot the part about HRNSW having sunk more than enough $ into the place to keep it afloat already. The place is like Sarah Beeny's restoration of Rise Hall...sans Sarah Beeny's income stream. It is a money pit and should be cut loose forthwith.

[dizzy]

Isn't the ATC akin to the NSWHRC while Racing NSW is akin to HRNSW. Point being that just as NSWHRC spends money on Menangle, ATC spends money on the city clubs.

Yes Brenno but the real point is money should be spent where it will return the most to the industry. I doubt the ATC would ever consider selling Randwick but then they cant anyway as it is crown land

[dizzy]

[VVV] You forgot the part about HRNSW having sunk more than enough $ into the place to keep it afloat already. The place is like Sarah Beeny's restoration of Rise Hall...sans Sarah Beeny's income stream. It is a money pit and should be cut loose forthwith.

Jamie I am not part of Bankstown's inner sanctum I merely use the place to obtain my daily fix of equine activity. Whilst Bankstowns finacial problems of recent years are well known I do not know how much or indeed if HRNSW has sunk any additional money above and beyond anywhere else into Bankstown. Certainly many a meeting took place between HRNSW and the club but if they actually kicked in extra cash I cant tell you. Certainly at least 2 private benefactors have, one of which is a major sponsor of harness racing at more then one track across the state and he is very keen that Bankstown remain, you wouldn't want to go losing sponsors for the industry now would you Jamie.
As for income streams Bankstown makes over $500,000 a year for the industry from the markets, la luna longe, bike show , Eid festival and other activities. Before the falling out with the other club there was another 250K for each of the four years before now but the other club still do put in $50K for the Treur-there is certainly a lesson to be learned there.

Personally my own contribution to the industry whilst based at Bankstown Jamie, thanks to a very generous employer also based at Bankstown, now exceeds the average annual australian wage annually and I am not top of the list here. I can think of six stables here who's connections contribute more then, and in some cases very significantly more then, that to the industry annually, and I'm not including Emeilio, he has a home, not a stable here. So Jamie I think if you add together all the paperclips, shoeing nails, functions,turnover etc etc etc that Bankstown still contributes to the industry you have an amount easily in the range of 2 to 3 million dollars annually so unless you have some real ammunition for your arguement beyond your spite for Bankstown its time for you to put your cue in the rack on the subject of closing Bankstown down.

[dizzy]

I agree with what the ATC are doing Dot and Randwick will be a great set up, where would you suggest they build a 1000m track in the city as i would love to hear your thoughts. They have Menangle why would you want to build another one when you could use that track multiple time's a wk such as they do at the Meadowlands and use the facilities they are building there, it seem's pointless to me to waste money in building a new track close by. Extending the Penrith track would be the best option that is if Penrith can be extended. Punter's will bet anywhere Dot whether it be metro or country, you give them the product and form and they will lay there money. The thing that does make it harder for country tracks is the time slot and day they are given to run there race's.

Mango assuming that any problems that may exist can be resolved with local/state government and given our very limited finacial resources for the project then my suggestion would be to upgrade the track at Fairfield. It's not freehold but leasehold that should be able to be negotitated for a considerable length of time as the site cannot be sold by council. It is about 10 minutes south west of the Parramatta CDB which is scheduled for a vast upgrade in terms of residential and retail commercial deveopment along what is now auto alley.It's also about 5 to 7 minutes from the M7 allowing easy access. It is in an existing residential (which may be a problem) area which is well established and no longer mortage belt. The population is largely Asian who are traditionally very fond of betting activities.

As to Menangle why do you think the CEO has said that Sydney needs a 1000m track, not Sydney needs more racing at Menangle? Its because as CEO the finacial health of the industry buck stops with him. I'm sure Mango you've read many a story on the net and the trotguide from participants about how great the racing at Menangle is, but have you read one yet from a punter who has said how great the punting at Menangle is? Reading between the lines I would say Sam, as it is his job to, has identified that Menangle is an underperforming asset for the industry in regards to the returns it provides finacially to the industry for what is invested there.

Funny you should liken Menangle to the Meadowlands, you know that the Meadowlands had been finacially unviable for years before going officially broke last year when the New Jersey State Govenor Chris Christie withdrew the subsidies the government had been providing from Atlantic City casino revenues for years don't you?

For want of a better term the Meadowlands is currently in a transition phase, ownership has been taken over by Jeff Gural representing 100 million dollars of venture capital which sounds great doesn't it. There are changes, demolished old stand, plans for new stand etc, at the Meadowlands and Jeff is trying very hard to improve the harness racing product at the Meadowlands. But the track and the racing is not the real prize for these guys, a casino license is. At present the only place in New Jersey that gaming takes place is in Atlantic City and Govenor Christie wants to keep it that way. Christie is hoping that the latest multi billion dollar resort style gaming venue to open in Atlantic City brings in the sufficient cash to prevent the state from going broke, Gural and his followers are banking on that it won't and the New Jersey state legislator will then open up gaming licenses in the rest of New Jersey and that they (Gural) will have the prime position for one, half an hour from New York City itself and in the middle of 19million people, and 3 airports. Jamie Packer is not the only Casino entrepreneur that knows there are 300 million middle class chinese about to unleash their spending power on the western world and the thing they like to do most is gamble. If they get the licence then expect to see the real money (billions) flow at the Meadowlands and the track shrink as harness racing becomes just a cog in the entertainment and gaming business that will be built there. If no casino license is forth coming then expect to see both Jeff Gural and his investors and the Meadowlands dissappear.

Punters are our primary income source and yes they will more or less bet anywhere but they have there favourite places too, but along with punters Mango we need owners and these, unlike punters, won't be found just anywhere, they have to get something more for their investment then just prizemoney-remember Jamie previously in this thread, colours in hand shouting loudly "I WANT RECOGNITION", well he's not the only owner who does. So tracks needs to be built somewhere where that need is met too, and that means in close proximty to population centres and with facilities that are attractive to people. Those facilities then need to be maintained so that means tracks need other income streams too so that too means tracks need to be close to people. The larger the population centre then the more people you have to draw from into using the facilities and hopefully become involved in harness racing.

The other part of the equation Mango is political support, politicians on either side of the fence won't support race clubs that think they are just there to provide a product to wager on, they want to see racing/clubs provide something more to their communities and therefore the polly's re election campaign. I added the bit about the re election campaign but it was Peter McGuran the former federal minister for agriculture during EI amongst many other things in the racing industry who said the rest. He also said there are 120 TB racing clubs in NSW and 108 tracks so I've filed that away for the next trivia night I attend!

The short answer is Mango is that there isn't a short answer but the time has come when some smart descisions need to be made to not just turn around the industry but set it up for the future.

[Triple V]

jamie i am not part of bankstown's inner sanctum i merely use the place to obtain my daily fix of equine activity.
[vvv] that's a genuine win/win situation.
whilst bankstowns finacial problems of recent years are well known i do not know how much or indeed if hrnsw has sunk any additional money above and beyond anywhere else into bankstown. Certainly many a meeting took place between hrnsw and the club but if they actually kicked in extra cash i cant tell you.
[vvv] i can and yes they have. Perhaps a discreet inquiry as to the destination of the funds due to the club as part of the race fields legislation windfall might clarify the picture. It doesn't take hercules poirot to work out that most if not all of it will go towards repaying hrnsw for the $ they've periodically kicked into the tin to keep the place afloat.
certainly at least 2 private benefactors have, one of which is a major sponsor of harness racing at more then one track across the state and he is very keen that bankstown remain, you wouldn't want to go losing sponsors for the industry now would you jamie.
[vvv] i guess you're talking of colin mcdowell. He's a good bloke, he loves the sport, may well get very vocal & threaten to pull his sponsorship & leave the industry if bankstown were to be closed however that's no different to the comments that came out of the fairfield devotees when that track was closed. Colin watts, another good bloke, said something along those lines about Fairfield...it was in trotguide, i remember it very clearly, but like the big a, he loves the sport to too much to do that, as did his dad & as do his sons.

as for income streams bankstown makes over $500,000 a year for the industry from the markets, la luna longe, bike show , eid festival and other activities. Before the falling out with the other club there was another 250k for each of the four years before now but the other club still do put in $50k for the treur-there is certainly a lesson to be learned there.
[vvv] lord, i wish the pitches i got when i was playing baseball were such free hits. If there's 500k going through the tills out there may i suggest someone puts in a petty cash slip and gets the water truck serviced prior to the 2013 truer? :rolleyes:
personally my own contribution to the industry whilst based at bankstown jamie, thanks to a very generous employer also based at bankstown, now exceeds the average annual australian wage annually and i am not top of the list here.
[vvv] good for you dot, i really mean that. I also live in fear of being identified as a passenger in a light aircraft that's intending to land at bankstown, for it would not take much to be re-directed to the watery expanses of the george's river.
i can think of six stables here who's connections contribute more then, and in some cases very significantly more then, that to the industry annually, and i'm not including emeilio, he has a home, not a stable here.
[vvv] that merely confirms what many including myself have long suspected. Emilio is as mad as a wheel. ;)
so jamie i think if you add together all the paperclips, shoeing nails, functions,turnover etc etc etc that bankstown still contributes to the industry you have an amount easily in the range of 2 to 3 million dollars annually so unless you have some real ammunition for your arguement beyond your spite for bankstown its time for you to put your cue in the rack on the subject of closing bankstown down.
[vvv]...and i'm mother theresa.



vvv

[Greg Hando]

Re: Bathurst, it's already well underway Troops. I was told the plans for a 1000m track to be built at Bathurst on the old Saleyards site went before Council the Monday after the most recent Gold Crown/Tiara Carnival.
The d.a application will be before the next council meeting,the land will be rented off the council,$5+ million for the set up and council will assist with loan's etc to the club. Harnes racing bring's in approximately $3 million annually and support's 90 + job's. It was on tonight's local WIN new's

[aussiebreno]

The d.a application will be before the next council meeting,the land will be rented off the council,$5+ million for the set up and council will assist with loan's etc to the club. Harnes racing bring's in approximately $3 million annually and support's 90 + job's. It was on tonight's local WIN new's

I had an aquaintance go to Bathurst during March this year and he couldnt get accomodation in the middle of the week. The Crown would have been the main reason, that carnival really is a credit to Bathurst and would help massively with influencing the council.

[Triple V]

The d.a application will be before the next council meeting,the land will be rented off the council,$5+ million for the set up and council will assist with loan's etc to the club. Harnes racing bring's in approximately $3 million annually and support's 90 + job's. It was on tonight's local WIN new's

[VVV] Great to hear it is progressing Greg. Bathurst Council have long been supportive of anything to do with Harness Racing. They're well aware of how much $ it kicks into the local economy each year. On top of that, how about Gold Crowns & Tiaras conducted on a brand new 1000m track. Fantastic. Onwards & upwards.

[dizzy]

Good news Greg, I hope the application proceeds smoothly and rapidly

[Greg Hando]

They also said it should go through by August and construction was expected to start early next year .

[dizzy]

Jamie you want me to believe you "know" that HRNSW kicked in additional cash above and beyond the norm, yet you didn't even "know" your own mare had a yearling catalogued in the 2011 APG sale? My mail some weeks ago was that Bankstown was getting a new water truck from our share of the race fields legislation, though of course I will believe that when I actually see it-I will keep you posted. Also Jamie I have no interest in dropping names of people I know in the industry, or out, and believe respect should be shown for peoples privacy unless they themselves have put something on the public record. I have no problem Jamie if you don't follow my yes somewhat cryptic comment, Adam if you want clarification then feel free to phone or email. HRNSW has my details.

As usual Jamie you can only see the little things when I'm talking about the big picture. Yes perhaps the water truck should have been serviced more frequently, but the real lessons to be learned are that clubs can be in finacial difficulty even with large income streams, and how/why did one club become two, thus losing control of a major source of income. By the way I have indeed successfully directed quite a large number of acft to the Georges River but if I were you I would be more in fear of living underneath the lane of entry.

Yes I don't understand someone living here without stables either, I'm told Emilio wanted stables but built his home so large he couldn't get council approval to build them. Shows I guess that money doesn't get you everything. Do you intend to raise a doubt about the value of the new Bathurst track to the economy/industry as well? When you add everything up you would be surprised how rapidly the amount climbs, my credit card catches me out every month.

[Triple V]

Dot, please, seriously...you've got to level with me here.
If I am a passenger in a Cessna and said plane is on approach to Bankstown Airport, will it be re-directed to a rather deep and wide expanse of water out in the middle of the Georges River...or not?
Should I be sure to pack my swimmers & make some adjustments to my life insurance in income protection policies...or am I sweet? :rolleyes:

[mango]

Triple

By all means pack your swimmer's and not your mankini.

[Triple V]

jamie you want me to believe you "know" that hrnsw kicked in additional cash above and beyond the norm, yet you didn't even "know" your own mare had a yearling catalogued in the 2011 apg sale?
[vvv] yes. I tend to remember important things and file the rest.
my mail some weeks ago was that bankstown was getting a new water truck from our share of the race fields legislation, though of course i will believe that when i actually see it-i will keep you posted.
[vvv] i heard they had purchased the old one from riverstone trials.
also jamie i have no interest in dropping names of people i know in the industry, or out, and believe respect should be shown for peoples privacy unless they themselves have put something on the public record.
[vvv] whacka whacka whacka. (i have attempted to write the applicable sound down as try as i have done, i can't find an audio link to post here)
don't be so ridiculously and needlessly precious about it dot.
After all, you're the one who raised the spectre of a major sponsor not wanting pigeontown to close...and i merely put 2 & 2 together.
As if either would give half a bugger anyway. nothing has been said here that would not be said in either of their immediate presence(s) -if that's a word?
i have no problem jamie if you don't follow my yes somewhat cryptic comment, adam if you want clarification then feel free to phone or email. Hrnsw has my details.
[vvv] as i said, i have no idea what it is on god's green earth you're on about there. Poor adam, he's hoping you'll save him the all grief and explain it...but no. For now he continues to roast like one of the birds doing laps on the spit at the charcoal chicken shop in lithgow. I am beginning to think that maybe there's something just a little bit evil about you dot. Do you read a lot of stephen king books? :confused:
as usual jamie you can only see the little things when i'm talking about the big picture.
[vvv] perfection is all about lots and lots of small things being done well and combining to create said big picture. If you can't get the little things right, what hope aything of a more sizeable nature?
yes perhaps the water truck should have been serviced more frequently, but the real lessons to be learned are that clubs can be in finacial difficulty even with large income streams, and how/why did one club become two, thus losing control of a major source of income.
[vvv] well, i might have been a bit harsh there. Bankstown is of courses located in the former pm paul bearer's former federal electorate... Is it not? Maybe they were dutifully towing the eco-marxist party line and got themselves into a load of cheap and dodgy bio-diesel?...only to find it that didn't quite pack the bang for their buck that they were hoping for? Those rascally water trucks. You never know what they're gonna do next. Maybe you could also get laurie brereton to get on his motorbike and zoom around to look after the patrons the way he used to look after the ballot boxes out that way? Just a thought. :rolleyes:
by the way i have indeed successfully directed quite a large number of acft to the georges river but if i were you i would be more in fear of living underneath the lane of entry.
[vvv] ? I fear something was lost in translation there.
yes i don't understand someone living here without stables either, i'm told emilio wanted stables but built his home so large he couldn't get council approval to build them. Shows i guess that money doesn't get you everything.
[vvv] that seems to be in direct conflict with your sabre rattling above with regard to quote [ also jamie i have no interest in dropping names of people i know in the industry, or out, and believe respect should be shown for peoples privacy unless they themselves have put something on the public record.] end quote. A little running with the fox and hunting with the hounds there dot? :confused:
do you intend to raise a doubt about the value of the new bathurst track to the economy/industry as well?
[vvv] of course not...that would be like raising doubts about the value of oxygen, sunlight, red wine and sleep.
bathurst, wagga, newcastle, goulburn & tamworth will all get a good doing over.
incidentally, the bathurst track will not be on the old saleyards site per se, rather it will be up the hill a bit on a large piece of land on ethelton av. Which runs between vale rd. & college rd. That is excellent news imo.

when you add everything up you would be surprised how rapidly the amount climbs, my credit card catches me out every month.
[vvv] unfortunately dot, that's life under a federal labor government for you & especially so one beholding to the green eco-marxist lunatic fringe. Collectively they would much prefer that you starving to death in a cave in the dark.


vvv

[Triple V]

Triple

By all means pack your swimmer's and not your mankini.

http://shugamama.files.wordpress.com/2012/03/borat-mankini-very-nice.jpg
Looks a little bit like Mike Aiken back in the late 1980's. ;)

[broncobrad]

My eyes hurt. They really hurt.

[dizzy]

Dot, please, seriously...you've got to level with me here.
If I am a passenger in a Cessna and said plane is on approach to Bankstown Airport, will it be re-directed to a rather deep and wide expanse of water out in the middle of the Georges River...or not?
Should I be sure to pack my swimmers & make some adjustments to my life insurance in income protection policies...or am I sweet? :rolleyes:

Absolutely as safe as anyone else VVV, we don't get the passenger manifest here. From the details in the APG catalogue VVV you live at Northmead, that is right underneath the light acft lane to and from Bankstown to the north, nothing actually to do with me but believe me it ain't safe.


ps Emilio house/stables is ancient history, he himself referred to it in print around the time he purchased Well Said's sister

[aussiebreno]

A strong, 6 race, 46 horse card today....

[Triple V]

Indeed. If an audio signature that best described it were to be assigned to this concept....all & sundry would immediately recognise it by way of the sound of a Sumo Wrestler aggressively slamming his oversized can down on a Whoopee Cushion that possessed the appoximate dimensions of a King-sized Bean Bag Chair. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tw-6G4BSlCQ

[Greg Hando]

And they have got the hide to put up a mile rate and silly people believe the mile rate.

[aussiebreno]

Were noms extended?

[mango]

Tuesday fields were up yesty but not monday's so they must of been extended.

[mango]

There up now Breno.

[aussiebreno]

Is today the funeral for the Flying K?

[Triple V]

When Darren Binskin comes out in the Trotguide and gives it a thumbs up straight away you know it's gone for all money.:p It's like when someone from a sporting club does a piece to camera on the nightly news and says "The Coach has the Board's full support".

[Thevoiceofreason]

When Darren Binskin comes out in the Trotguide and gives it a thumbs up straight away you know it's gone for all money.:p It's like when someone from a sporting club does a piece to camera on the nightly news and says "The Coach has the Board's full support".

Love it or hate it and I am happy to sit on the fence, however I will say a couple of things.

1.The shorter races from other seasons at 1300m were a much bigger success than anyone thought they would be.

2.The industry gets bagged for just running mile races.

3.The industry gets bagged for running longer races because nothing happens.

It is easy to never make a mistake, never make a decision.

It was tried, did it work, it seems not but if we are going to bag the people who try something every time they try .... they will stop trying... both equine codes are losing turnover money to the dogs so are trying to make their product more appealing to the very casual punter who back dog 1 because he knows it has a red rug.

One thing I am sure of however is the Adams family like the concept one of our best young horses from 2007/2008 season FLITE DYNASTY has found form, I am tipping they will not be thinking its a massive wank when they spend the $9,500 the series has made them.

[Triple V]

Be that as it may VOR, if I hand on heart had any measure of trust in the TAB that they would not continue to push our Industry to institute that which is nothing more than an equine version of Dog Lotto, if I had any measure of trust in them that they will not continue to attempt to mindlessly debase Harness Racing by way of shortened races and the use of Greyhound Colours on drivers and that they will not continue to pass off that which is a thinly veiled copy of the dishlickers as 'genuine innovation'...I'd let it pass as the abject folly it is, giving it no more thought than a previous day's bowel movement.
Unfortunately I suspect that's nothing like their plan for the future and so in response I'm not planning to take my foot off the neck of this subject any time soon.
My information is that far from this being a one off at a time of year when noms are not that easy to come by, there is a 2nd tilt which has already set down for December, a time of year when there are plenty of horses around to fill most of the races carded. How about them apples eh?
First it's a one off, then it's once every 6 months, then once every 3, then before long it will be once a month, once a week, more than once a week.
Nah, they can take that and jam it up their individual and collective clackers...sideways.
Give these imbeciles an inch and it will be an across the board kilometer before you know it...day in, day out, week in, week out, churn and burn...like the Dishlickers.
As if the TB's would ever entertain the possibility of having this sort of crap shoved upon them, even for a second. Neither should we.

[Big Max]

2.The industry gets bagged for just running mile races.3.The industry gets bagged for running longer races because nothing happens.

I would like to know who these people are that are bagging the mile races AND bagging the distance races because nothing happens,are we talking about people inside the industry or just random people because for as long as i can remember whenever i have had a bet in a pub i don't EVER remember the conversation of distance coming up before or after the race,they just move on to the next race and let's not forget these are the people that are betting on our product,ask any of them (normal everyday punters i'm talking about)about distances and i bet as they are looking up at the screen for the race to start they wouldn't be able to tell you if it's a 1000m,1609m,2100 or 3652mtr race. Form is what i hear being talked about the most, definitely not distances.

Sorry about my rant but having spent alot of time in Europe you realise that trotting is number 1 and gallops and dogs run 2nd and 3rd and i just wish the same respect could be shown for it here instead of us being told what we need to do to make certain parties happy,i know that's how it is but it still p......ss me right off

[Triple V]

G'ay Rosario,

If I were to place all of my other objections and suspicions to one side for a moment and just focus on one aspect, that being the distance...then geeze, the thinking behind the shortening of a race from 1609 to 1000m and thereby some 45-50 seconds less...is nothing to me if not staggeringly stupid.
If the difference between maintaining a Punter's interest and not doing so actually does lie between the 1:07-1:08-1:09 bracket that it took them to scoot over the 1000m yesterday & it is unable to be sustained for the extra 48-49-50 seconds it would have taken for them to race over the traditonally shortest race distance of 1 mile (1609m) then let me tell you something mate, we are well & truly rooted and far from home.
Of course, you and I and everyone else knows that is not the case BUT that significantly is also an integral part of the bullshit line that the TAB dishlicker plagiarisers who like to be seen as inovators have been running in order to support this ridiculous concept and force it upon Harness Racing. A Pox on all their houses.

[Danno]

It is easy to never make a mistake, never make a decision.

No argument VOR, he who never made any mistakes never made anything, BUT , this is not an example of innovative thinking, it's pure mindless copycat crap, I've said on this subject before that successful marketing is about protecting your brand and not sending mixed messages.

Copying, as VVV so accurately calls it "dog lotto" is not just sending mixed messages, its brand destroying! It is F...ing mindless!
People should certainly be encouraged to do some ...pardon the pun..."out of the box thinking", but this is not an example of lateral thinking, indeed quite the opposite, it smells like dogshit to me. Am i offended by it? indeed I am! anything that cheapens our game is something to be railed against and this is excatly that,cheap dog poop and the owner/promoter of this should suffer whatever consequences are coming his or her way.

Nobody gets it right every time and this is a stark reminder of that.

[gutwagon]

NSWHR have coped a lot of criticism over the flying K and IMO they deserved it all. But in saying that I still give them credit for trying something different.
On the subject of trying different things I would like to congratulate the Mayrborough Club and HRV for the concept of Redwood Day, a success from the start and just keeps getting better and better each year. This is the kind of thinking we need, not a ccompletely original idea but an idea from other trotting countries.

[clumsy]

NSWHR have coped a lot of criticism over the flying K and IMO they deserved it all. But in saying that I still give them credit for trying something different.
On the subject of trying different things I would like to congratulate the Mayrborough Club and HRV for the concept of Redwood Day, a success from the start and just keeps getting better and better each year. This is the kind of thinking we need, not a ccompletely original idea but an idea from other trotting countries.

HRNSW are trying to do this at Coolamon on Anzac day, they have held two meetings so far. They have started the ball rolling and now need the owners and trainers to support them.

[Frano1982]

The concept of Anzac day is great!!!

But the location is an issue, especially the quality of the track...
It's sad seeing group 1 horses having to be nursed around the home turn the whole way!!!
Also, maybe the the timing needs to be looked at, especially if they have it out in the bush where people have to travel to get there...

[Thevoiceofreason]

The concept of Anzac day is great!!!

But the location is an issue, especially the quality of the track...
It's sad seeing group 1 horses having to be nursed around the home turn the whole way!!!
Also, maybe the the timing needs to be looked at, especially if they have it out in the bush where people have to travel to get there...

Adam

I understand your concerns because it is a long way from Newcastle especially after you have cooked the pies but to my understanding HRNSW chose Coolamon because of it proximity to Victoria the view being there were not enough trotters in NSW to supply the fields and we would need at least some support from our southern cousins if the concept was to get off the ground.

Apparently most other tracks in the riverina are 800m and again the view was too tight for most trotters. There was a lot of consultation with the trotting mob before this went forward and the Public holiday concept allows people to travel and a crowd to support.

Not really sure but reckon it has some legs .... you just might have to pay someone to cook the pies so you can have a morning off.

[Triple V]

The very fact the Trotting fraternity would load up their steeds and drive all the way to Coolamon to race is at once reflective of their dedication & their individual as well as collective insanity. :p That aside, I am a bit of a soft touch where the Riverina is concerned. What a lovely part of the world it is. Wide open spaces, big skies. Beautiful.

[Frano1982]

Don't get me wrong, it is a brilliant idea...
But I guess like a lot of things in their infancy, things can be tweaked here and there for the better of all concerned...
I've been a long time viewer of this forum, but have only just started to comment!!!

[Thevoiceofreason]

Don't get me wrong, it is a brilliant idea...
But I guess like a lot of things in their infancy, things can be tweaked here and there for the better of all concerned...
I've been a long time viewer of this forum, but have only just started to comment!!!

And good to see as well ....VVV will keep you in line I on the other hand am easy to get on with.

[aussiebreno]

Yep, Anzac day trotters carnival. But if we are getting fair dinkum here seeing as NSW has the next 3 Ben Hur Invatational Marathons (although the term officials are using is the Interdominion) they should spread the load and put one at the brand new Wagga track in 3 years time as well. :)

[Triple V]

I on the other hand am easy to get on with.

[VVV] This must be the pilot for Eddie McGuire's new TV Show 'Give Yourself A Wrap' . :p

[Thevoiceofreason]

[VVV] This must be the pilot for Eddie McGuire's new TV Show 'Give Yourself A Wrap' . :p

You know Me I hate conflict. Plus I got a bite.