Prizemoney distribution does not reflect industry expectations?

[Danno]

The current poll on HRA site re:

voting poll

Which age group would you prefer to see race for the highest stake levels?
2 year old (6%)
http://www.harness.org.au/images/poll-graph.gif
3 year old (32%)
http://www.harness.org.au/images/poll-graph.gif
4 year old (22%)
http://www.harness.org.au/images/poll-graph.gif
5+ year old (40%)
http://www.harness.org.au/images/poll-graph.gif
Total Votes: 172
http://www.harness.org.au/images/button-results.gif (http://www.harness.org.au/poll-results.cfm)

Does anyone else think that stakes money for 2yo's ( in some instances considerably higher than stakes races for 3yo's) is out of whack?

Can anyone offer explanations for this?

I personally think it's because commercial breeders were having more than their fair share of influence for about thirty maybe forty years...am I wrong??

Cheers,
Dan

[aussiebreno]

Brb getting the popcorn.

[Triple V]

The vast majority of 2yo & 3yo Stake money is Futurity based Dan.
In other words, Breeders & Owners are effectively RACING FOR THEIR OWN MONEY.
NSW Breeders Challenge, VicBred, APG, Australasian Breeders Crown, Gold Crown/Tiara etc etc etc.
There's not a single one of them that ever goes forward sans the extensive amount of $$$ kicked into the tin by way of Stud/Stallion nominations, Breeder/Broodmare nominations, foal & yearling nominations, age & series acceptance payments. On the other hand, the 4yrs+ horses annually by and large race for TAB distribution $$$.

[Danno]

The vast majority of 2yo & 3yo Stake money is Futurity based Dan.
In other words, Breeders & Owners are effectively RACING FOR THEIR OWN MONEY.
NSW Breeders Challenge, VicBred, APG, Australasian Breeders Crown, Gold Crown/Tiara etc etc etc.
There's not a single one of them that ever goes forward sans the extensive amount of $$$ kicked into the tin by way of Stud/Stallion nominations, Breeder/Broodmare nominations, foal & yearling nominations, age & series acceptance payments. On the other hand, the 4yrs+ horses annually by and large race for TAB distribution $$$.

be that as it may Jamie, but then why in these circumstances are the 2yo's racing for truckloads more than the 3yo's?

Why were the 2yo futurities stacked up in prizemoney and not the 3yo's?

Can anyone offer a plausible explanation for that, given people are racing for their own money.... why would you design it so that the very small percentage of horses that make the grade as 2yo's are the only ones who get a crack at the big $$$, could it be that the people who designed these schemes are in fact NOT the people who are handing over the cabbage to be part of it, but in fact the people who are in receipt of some FRINGE BENEFITS!

am I being cynical here?

[dizzy]

Certainly the vast amount of 2yo money is futurity based, plus the Lindon Huntley Little Memorial which is privately sponsored, but the amounts drop off for 3yos. I guess most of these fururity schemes originated with breeders so I guess you can't blame them for structuring them to most suit their best business model/bottom line, that is reward 2yo's and turn over horses quickly.

So I guess you could look at it as the designers are not the people handing over the cash and, and benefit from a demand for young stock. Until the people putting into these schemes vote with their feet/cash and don't support them it will continue to be so. If someone was so inclined then I guess they could start a similar sweepstakes concept paying out for older horses and perhaps nick a bit of the cash from the futurities.

But it is market driven with most buyers at the yearling sales wanting a quick return on their investment, hence the APG and Magic Millions concepts being so successful, and in this age of people wanting instant gratification will continue to be so. The TB breeding industry in Oz is almost exclusively formated for a quick return breeding for 2yo and sprinters, but Chris Waller and a few others have started a trend that has really caught on buying proven European stayers to chase the staying cash. We've done a similar thing for years buying out of NZ.

[Danno]

But it is market driven with most buyers at the yearling sales wanting a quick return on their investment, hence the APG and Magic Millions concepts being so successful, and in this age of people wanting instant gratification will continue to be so. The TB breeding industry in Oz is almost exclusively formated for a quick return breeding for 2yo and sprinters,




Correct Dot, the market is driven by people seeking a quick return, particularly if the carrot looks really BIG and really CLOSE...the types of things that are a lure for the gambling mentality, but ask yourself this, what came first? buyers looking for 2yo's or big $ for babies racing to entice gambling type mentality purchases. I know the answer and I reckon you do too.

The yearling market has been over manipulated for far too long, there are too many people who have been disappointed too many times by the lure of a "quick buck", and I suspect wrecked a bloody good proportion of nice young horses that have been asked to go before they are genuinely ready.

Some would say that the orchestrators of this slow destruction of the industry, had the best interests of the industry at heart when they proposed these schemes, I would not be in their number, rather I believe the schemes are self serving, short term plans, like any good wholesome unchecked capitalism.

We have managed, in many ways, to abuse the people who have put their money where their hearts are in order to keep this game alive for too,too long, they are departing the industry/sport in their droves, they have been cheated one too many times, these people are not the trainers,breeders,drivers,administrators etc, they are the poor bloody forgotten owners, the very lifeblood of our game, the people who pick up all the tabs and get so little either financially or emotionally in return. The poor buggers are now seeing that almost the only way to win a race in town is to send your horse to trainers that go from one drug infringement to another...the trainers prepared to walk the tightrope, and send the whole team to mum dad son or brother, while they "see out their time".

This game is fast becoming a bloody sick joke.