they must be joking right?

[buster]

Outstanding 4yo For A Reason will return to the trial track next week

by Chris Barsby


Freakish; For A Reason is set to return and the Chariots Of Fire is the main target. Photo by Corey Pearce.
One of Australia’s most exciting pacers is set to resume.
Boom 4yo For A Reason is expected to return to the trial track at Albion Park next Tuesday for his trainer/driver Luke McCarthy.
For A Reason, voted the Australian 3yo Pacer of the Year last season after collecting four Derby’s is being aimed specifically at the Gr.1 $200,000 Chariots Of Fire at TABCORP Park, Menangle on April 30.
The Art Major entire has not raced since scoring a decisive victory in the Gr.1 $100,000 Queensland Derby at AlbionPark on July 10.
And his trainer is predicting his ‘new look’ appearance will surprise even his most loyal fans upon his return.
“Frank is a ball of muscle; I think he has grown another two hands since his last start and he really thickened up over the areas that I wanted him too,” Luke McCarthy stated.
“I gave him a good break of six weeks straight after the Derby but ever since I have had him in and out of work because I didn’t want him coming back big and heavy,”
“He’s done plenty of work on the track plus he has done plenty of swimming and the results of that work will be evident when he steps out next week, he looks absolutely fantastic and he’s a real big lad now.”
McCarthy has outlined that his 4yo term will be quite light as he prepares for a career on the Grand Circuit stage next season.
“Realistically, there isn’t too much around for him this season but that gives me a chance to look after him and prep him for the Grand Circuit races next season,”
“The Chariots is the race I really want for him this campaign and then I will concentrate on the Brisbane Winter Carnival later this season.”
McCarthy is also looking at the bigger picture with his $300,000 plus earner and is very mindful of what races he targets.
“Obviously he is going to be a stallion long term, he’s got a great pedigree with matching good looks and hopefully we can keep building on his record in a good way.”
“He will probably have a couple trials and then we will build up for the Chariots, he’s likely to return to the races officially by the end of this month.”
The return of For A Reason could easily coincide with impending marriage of McCarthy and his long-time partner Belinda Lamb who also co-owns the star pacer.
The young couple will tie the knot at the end of this month in Sydney.
For A Reason is raced by leading thoroughbred trainer Alan Bailey plus Ken McDonald and Belinda Lamb.


they have a seriously warped view of the horse, won 2 derbies but has nowhere near the pedigree for a stallion or the racetrack performance

id rather send a mare to sir lincoln if i was forced to pick one from that year

[aussiebreno]

Would have to be a cheapy, but theres plenty of worse stallions currently standing.

[triplev123]

There is no such thing as a Stallion's Pedigree.
Many of the greatest sires in the history of the sport were thinly/short/obscurely bred on their maternal side.

[mango]

But do you really reckon he is that good to be a stallion.

[aussiebreno]

But do you really reckon he is that good to be a stallion.

He has done a shitload more on the track than stalions like Pass The Mustard and River Khan.

[mango]

Yeah thats true and there stats at stud prove that aswell, so Aussiebreno are you telling me For A Reason would make it at stud on what his done so far if yes your kidding yourself.

[mightymo]

surely we should be passing judgement on him till his career is over?? , What if he wins a Chariots this year and then goes into to win a Vic cup, hunter cup and Interdom?? If he does that then he definitely deserves to go to stud

[mango]

Mightymo
I'll agree with that but i don't think they should be talking up a stud career untill he has won those sought of races there's a long way to go and there are some other nice 4yr olds out there.

[aussiebreno]

Yeah thats true and there stats at stud prove that aswell, so Aussiebreno are you telling me For A Reason would make it at stud on what his done so far if yes your kidding yourself.

There are more mares in this world than Ashlees Babe, Fleur De Lil etc. River Khan has serviced the bread and butter mares of the Riverina for a decade or longer and I'm sure there are lots of other examples in other areas - look at Lombo Maningo, Camlach, Thorpedo, Flightpath, Sir Galvinator etc. These studs arent in it for fun, they do it to make a profit and if those horses have had multiple seasons in the breeding barn then there is no reason For A Reason cant. In QLD there are a many bread and butters mares going around in Restricted races and I doubt their owners will be looking to slash out $15K for Christian Cullen. If retired now, at the right price For A Reason would service many mares.

[aussiebreno]

Mightymo
I'll agree with that but i don't think they should be talking up a stud career untill he has won those sought of races there's a long way to go and there are some other nice 4yr olds out there.
Talking up a stud career...oh dear.....out of the whole article and about 10quotes and one happens to just mention a stud career, hardly talk one up. McCarthy is mindful of the fact he has a lot more to do and only mentioned it do give reasoning as to their plans for the horse. If you want to see talking up rewind to the days Auckland Reactor was 4yo.

[mango]

This is not the first time he has mentioned it, last year he also mention it in the trotguide where he had talks with John Coffee from Alabar and your right about Auckland Reactor but at the moment i'd say he would still have more runs on the board.

[triplev123]

I'll take Luke's word for it. If he thinks he is a sire prospect and he is intent on managing the horse as such then that's good enough for me.

[mango]

I'm not saying he cant be i actually like the horse but he has a lot more to prove before he is a stud prospect.

[aussiebreno]

I'll take Luke's word for it. If he thinks he is a sire prospect and he is intent on managing the horse as such then that's good enough for me.

Not just Luke's but if Alabar were talking with him then thats a good sign!
Or does mango know more than Luke and Alabar?

[aussiebreno]

I'm not saying he cant be i actually like the horse but he has a lot more to prove before he is a stud prospect.

I have no idea who you are; but I envy the success you have had in ownership. You have obviously only ever had good race-horses and good broodmares that were justified being able to be sent to the upper-echelon sires. Either that or you are a wealthy individual away from the game and have the money to justify going to the top-notch sires even with unfashionable mares. Not every stallion can top the sires list.

[nat]

Have a Good look through the Dam's side there are winners and winners and winners plus she's a Fake Left with that Lordship/Globe Derby blood thrown in, We were all keen as to breed to Art Official and Santana Blue Chip when Art Majors price doubled now I'm not bagging these 2 stallions (Art Official's win against SBSW one of the greatest US race almost rivaling that of the Falcon Seelster's) but they were neither the best of their crop good but not the best but they were the best Art Majors at the time. I just get peeved when someone knocks a horse before he's begun what if Ian Dobson didn't have a grand plan for CC in the breeding barn, I've seen many well bred stallions come and go with no result down under. I'm for giving our best race horse stallions a go rather than breeding to the second best that the northern hemisphere send us.

[mango]

Aussiebreno
I think you need to go read my posts again, at NO stage am i bagging the horse and as you quoted one of my posts you should realise that i actually like the horse. What i did say is that i don't think he has done enough on the track yet to be a stallion. Now as mightymo said if he wins the charriots, hunter cup, miracle mile or even a inter than yes there is a good chance of him going to stud. For me the only horse i would send a mare to that is racing in Australia would be MR FEELGOOD as he has proven himself on the track and has a great pedigree to go with it. And unfashionable mare's well you could be right but i think there ok and have some breeding behind them beside's one being by Life Sign as he has been a tad dissapointing with the numbers he has on the ground. Also i've never had a good horse but i'm trying my best and maybe i'll get one maybe i won't.

Hi Nat
I'm not doubting his pedigree as it is very strong and a friend of mine P.K owns the 2yr old full sister all i am saying is that i don't think he has done enough on the track as yet. Now if your to be honest to yourself you would realise that he still has to do more on the track which hopefully he can.

[justdoit]

Hello Aussiebreno,
All the standardbred colts that are born IMO are sire prospects, until such time as the horse for what ever reason proves other wise. Luke M, John C or Brett C (@Alabar), anyone involved or that may be involved in the future in a horse with the potential to be a sire are not going to rule out the possibility of success, even if only slight.
You can breed to who or what ever turns you on. It is your choice, as it is Mangos.RESPECT:)brothers.

Mightymo is correct and lets hope he gets every chance at stud.

TripleV123, don't these Art Major colts go well:)

[aussiebreno]

Aussiebreno
I think you need to go read my posts again, at NO stage am i bagging the horse and as you quoted one of my posts you should realise that i actually like the horse. What i did say is that i don't think he has done enough on the track yet to be a stallion. Now as mightymo said if he wins the charriots, hunter cup, miracle mile or even a inter than yes there is a good chance of him going to stud. For me the only horse i would send a mare to that is racing in Australia would be MR FEELGOOD as he has proven himself on the track and has a great pedigree to go with it. And unfashionable mare's well you could be right but i think there ok and have some breeding behind them beside's one being by Life Sign as he has been a tad dissapointing with the numbers he has on the ground. Also i've never had a good horse but i'm trying my best and maybe i'll get one maybe i won't.

Hi Nat
I'm not doubting his pedigree as it is very strong and a friend of mine P.K owns the 2yr old full sister all i am saying is that i don't think he has done enough on the track as yet. Now if your to be honest to yourself you would realise that he still has to do more on the track which hopefully he can.
He already has done enough (2 Derbies) to make a cheap stallion. He has done more than River Khan, Lombo Mandingo etc who are have made cheap stallions and served plenty of mares, therefore For A Reason can and will make at least a cheap stallion and have a healthy amount of mares go to him. Not every stallion has won 5 grand circuit races and $1 million in prizemoney. Do you understand that or not?

[mango]

Aussiebreno
Well i'm sorry at the present time he hasn't done enough for me.

[buster]

well lets just put it out there - auckland reactor would have flattened for a reason into the track as a 3 yr old and im no big fan of auckland reactor and it would seem he didnt have a flying start to his stud career for whatever reason

trip - i like to see a stallion with some good horses in the pedigree, just to show its not a total freak and its relatives weren't all too mad or badly put together to make the races, cullen has kates first, courage had advance attack, rocknroll has a few too

deadly woman imo is lucky to have won any races bar its win at bankstown as it has ran into some very poor races and drawn well, PK filly - im still to be convinced about her, she did ALOT of work leading up the breeders plate and was pretty well beaten by the colt who was then just easily dealt to by kerryns colt.


the point of the original post was to show the ridic bias and hype that home town journos have for horses

[mango]

I went abit overboard back there sorry about that, i have since gone back and edited my post as i don't want to tarnish this site.

[triplev123]

Buster writes...>the point of the original post was to show the ridic bias and hype that home town journos have for horses <

Triple says...You've hit on a soapbox of mine Buster. With that I could not agree more.
The standard of Harness Racing journalism here in the Southern Hemisphere, with one or two notable exceptions, is absolutely bloody deplorable. The widespread lack of objectivity, the lack of research and the henious crime that is an abject lack of a good general knowledge of the Industry about which they write never ceases to amaze me.
Add to that the sycophanitc fawning about at the feet of come excuse making/running public interference for the transgressions of some who have fallen foul of the Rules (take Minty Man Number 2 and Geoff Small for example) and it's not particularly uplifting by any stretch of the imagination.
Here in Australia in particular there are little kids who run up and down the grass strip to the outside of the home stretches, periodically lookingover the fence to watch the horses, and they would have a far better grasp of what is going on than many of those who's job it is to observe and to accurately relate.
You can extend that general malaise to some of the Sky Compares as well. Just the other day there was a blonde lady on there covering Bathurst Harness.
A 2yo colt knocks an odds on fav. over by wide open spaces and gets up at 22/1...after having had its 1 and only other race start in a 2R0 back in November of last year where said 22/1 shot finished a fair sort of 4th to the odds on shot, beaten only 4m or 5m or so.
What does she say?..... "Well a BIG form reversal there at Bathurst!". What the ????? Are you fair dinkum????? I yelled. How in the Hell can a 2yo with just the 1 lifetime start 2 months previous in a 2R0 Kindergarten type of race be said by her or anyone else to have been responsible for a BIG form reversal? For crying out loud, it has had 1 start Toots!! Do your homework! It's exactly those dumd as a box of hammers comments that put Harness Racing across in a bad light to all those watching.

[aussiebreno]

Mango - he may not be the sire for you, in fact he wouldnt be sire of choice for me either, but there ARE people out there who will send mares to him. Can you not see that?

Agree with terrible journalism. The blonde girl on Sky knows nothing - which is fine because she is a thoroughbred girl. But she tries to pretend she knows. which is the thing that irritates me. Last week she was looking forward to the Vic Derby...then she realised the market she was about to read was for Heat 1! And her pronounciation of some names was laughable. In my local nag I'm constantly seeing he's referred to as mares and she's refered to as geldings. Puhhh-lease!

[Village Kid]

Maybe a stupid question her, and apologies if that is the case, more into the racing side than the breeding side of things, but if there was a dual Derby winning colt in the thoroughbreds he'd be talked up as a huge multi-million dollar stallion prospect, and be rushed off to stud before his 4 Yr old campaign.

Obviously there's a large US influence with the preferred sires now, but is ther any reason why a horse like this would be overlooked?

Cheers

[aussiebreno]

Maybe a stupid question her, and apologies if that is the case, more into the racing side than the breeding side of things, but if there was a dual Derby winning colt in the thoroughbreds he'd be talked up as a huge multi-million dollar stallion prospect, and be rushed off to stud before his 4 Yr old campaign.

Obviously there's a large US influence with the preferred sires now, but is ther any reason why a horse like this would be overlooked?

Cheers
Too right Village Kid and its not just in the thoroughbred industry, but in the northen hemisphere as well. Harness racing in Australasia is just about the only place where Grand Circuit racing is more important than early riches!
I'd overlook For A Reason because there are other options that are a) better bred horses and b) better racehorses. But there would be plenty of breeders only too happy to send a mare to him and good luck to them; when and if the time comes!

[buster]

for me its because he wasn't the best of the 3 yr olds, just one of an even bunch in aus

[The Charioteer]

this is an absurdly ridiculous statement "nowhere near the pedigree for a stallion or the racetrack performance"

WOW I just don't know where to start with that, by Art Major from a Fake Left mare with some nice kiwi blood. Follow the mares sire lines - Lordship, Armbro Del, Lumber Dream.
He stitched up Smiling Shard in the NSW Derby and look how well he's gone in the Hunter Cup. I have followed this horse from when he qualified and he's a star.

As for Chris Barsby, the guy works his butt off for the industry, he has four radio shows a week with news, views and interviews as well as his race calling.
Follows the sport closely in NZ, Aust and America and has his finger on the pulse. In that article he is doing exactly what he gets paid for.

[aussiebreno]

Another example. This time a QLD example. Left By Colada stands @ $990 on the back of winning a couple at Albion Park and being closely related to BAF. Studs dont run at a loss; so if Left By Colada can be a profitable sire then of course For A Reason can be.

[buster]

this is an absurdly ridiculous statement "nowhere near the pedigree for a stallion or the racetrack performance"

WOW I just don't know where to start with that, by Art Major from a Fake Left mare with some nice kiwi blood. Follow the mares sire lines - Lordship, Armbro Del, Lumber Dream.
He stitched up Smiling Shard in the NSW Derby and look how well he's gone in the Hunter Cup. I have followed this horse from when he qualified and he's a star.

As for Chris Barsby, the guy works his butt off for the industry, he has four radio shows a week with news, views and interviews as well as his race calling.
Follows the sport closely in NZ, Aust and America and has his finger on the pulse. In that article he is doing exactly what he gets paid for.

1- smiling shard was injured going into that derby and had a very limited preparation and season, hes about 20 levels higher than that this season
2- he got his arse kicked in victoria but apparently had excuses? like no other horse in the race had any setbacks
3- barsby gets paid for working, amazing situation really
4- his pedigree is quite weak, he is the only group winning or placed horses within 3 dams as far as i can see (and is sister deadly woman is a deadset cat)

[triplev123]

The term Sire's Pedigree belongs alongside other classic Oxymorons such as...open secret, larger half, act naturally, Labor Principles, Greens Policy & so on.

[buster]

so rock n roll hanover doesnt have a sires pedigree?

[mango]

Hi Buster
Rocknroll Hanover is by a great sire and is out of the greatest broodmare ever and is now proving his worth at stud, so i would say that is a sire's pedigree and i can't wait for him to come out at the end of the year.

[buster]

spot on mango

another interesting article by barsby on the chariots of fire, http://harness.org.au/news-article.cfm?news_id=15427
he can have qld to win the chariots and ill have NZ (devil dodger, smiling shard, courage to rule, sir lincoln, franco jamar, franco emirate, russley rascal, choice achiever)

[mango]

Hi Buster
They talk about the chariots and For A Reason from QLD have they forgot about Darrell Graham's horse Lanercost i think he is up there with For A Reason.

[aussiebreno]

Taylor Mile is on day before Chariots and the Messenger the following week. May not have a Kiwi in the field this year Buster

[buster]

i didnt think of that aussieb, that is just disgraceful programming, fancy promoting it as the top 4yr feature and then making it so the kiwis wont be here - but hey thats harness racing administration for you

[aussiebreno]

i didnt think of that aussieb, that is just disgraceful programming, fancy promoting it as the top 4yr feature and then making it so the kiwis wont be here - but hey thats harness racing administration for you
True. And I daresay Cuttheattitude and maybe others (cant think of any atm) will have to choose between Chariots and Vicbred as well.
EDIT: For 2 and 3yos a clash or two is ok; I mean with so many races for them its bound to happen. But for the 4yos its pathetic. NZ has their 3 main races (Taylor, Messenger, Jewels) and we have our main three (McInenerny Classic (?) and Gold Nugget and Chariots). The WA races are early and away from all others, NZ has Jewels toward the back end just before Breeders Crown.
So for the other 6 months of year spare it really shouldnt be that hard for the Chariots to be away from the Taylor/Messenger and then for the sires races to be away from them.

[triplev123]

so rock n roll hanover doesnt have a sires pedigree?

Buster, Mango, think about it for a moment.
If he does...then you'd have to accept that Red River, Rustler, Righteous (all by Western Hanover) and Richess Hanover (by Cam's Card Shark) are of the very same ilk, which quite clearly they are not.
Their dam, Rich N Elegant, is quite possibly THE greatest broodmare of the modern era, if not of all time. She is a daughter of the much maligned fillies sire Direct Scooter and as a racehorse she posted a slate of 36 5-7-2 & $96,244 and her FINAL career start was in a 15k Claimer. I mention this only because it serves to underline once more that they can and do come from anywhere and also to highlight the fact that you're awarding Rocknroll Hanover a 'sire's pedigree'...after the fact.
If there is such a thing as a sire's pedigree then why did Chill Factor (full brother to Artsplace) fall flat? Why did Good Humour Man (full brother to Most Happy Fella) do the same? They had the same pedigrees.
From another angle, where were the clear indicators of a sire's pedigree in the immediate removes of Big Towner? Of Abercrombie? Of Albatross? and so on.

[mango]

Hi Triplev123
Fair call, what i should of said is he has a strong pedigree. Now that you have mentioned Chill Factor and Good Humour Man has there ever been full brothers that have done a great job at stud.

[triplev123]

G'day Mango,

I have the odd moment of clarity. Jackie & Sue will testify to that. :p
There may well be others to have done so but the only brothers that come to mind that have really hit the boards as sires are Trotting stallions, the famous 'Hall brothers'...Andover, Angus & Conway. Interestingly, when you look at their dam, Amour Angus, and Rich N Elegant the dam of Rocknroll Hanover etc, I think they have quite a few things in common. For starters both are without any shadow of a doubt the greatest producing broodmares of their respective gaits we have seen in the modern era and yet nobody on the face of the planet could have looked at their respective race records/pedigrees & confidently predicted anything like that level of success. That's what I mean about colts/entires having sire's pedigrees. That tag is so often attached to them after the fact. I'm kind of getting off track a bit here but if there's anything to take away from looking at a prospective sire's pedigree and deciding whether or not you think it's a chance, think of the number of extremely successful Standardbred sires over the years that had off-beat/obscure/otherwise unsuccessful sires as their damsires. Two great cases on point are with us right here in the Southern Hemisphere as we converse...Bettor's Delight (Armbro Emerson) and Art Major (Nihilator) and there are and have been a host of others.

[buster]

there are a million reasons why a sire will fail and only 2 why they succeed 1 - quality and 2 - numbers

[triplev123]

Nah, don't agree. The only thing that is black and white in that area Buster...is that nothing is black and white, including that which you've stated there.