Flops or fair

[Greg Hando]

With the season just finished which first and second season sires in people's opinion failed or were o'k in the season just finished ?

[Triple V]

Jereme's Jet was a wash-out which really surprised me. I thought he was a big chance to leave a swathe of 2yo winners but from 65 foals, he had 22 starters & struggled to get 5 winners and of those that did get there none of them could beat time with a stick. I note that he has got 8 winners in Oz now, oldest now 3yrs, but 3 of those were bred in NZ so at 5 Oz bred winners his total thusfar remains.
Four Starzzz Shark disappointed me a bit, I thought he would do more, he did Ok but that's about all. They'll come on as 3yos+ no doubt but it would have been good to see some more & better 2yo winners from him. He closed out with 14 individual 2yo winners from 141 foals.
Real Desire didn't have 2yos here in Oz last season but his 3yos didn't do much, at least not that I noticed. They're the only 1st &/or 2nd season sires that I can think of.

The imposing trio of Art Major, Bettor's Delight & Mach Three will prove one Hell of a mountain for any new sire to climb. They (new sires) are going to have to be much the best even to take them on & beat them.
In terms of their combined 2yo earnings, Art Major, Bettor's Delight & Mach Three picked up almost as much $ as the combined 2yo progeny earnings totals of the next 17 sires on the AUS Top 20 2yo Sires Earnings table.

[Pete]

Metropolitan did quite well with his first crop (who were 3yos last season) from only 59 foals had 29 starters for 16 winners and 47 wins. (A few made the finals of the Vicbred series)
His second crop (who were 2yos last year) didn't do nearly as well but did include Blitzemcalder who probably made up most the prizemoney from his second crop.

I think he is very good value now - only $1750 - I seem to remember he started out at around $3K.
Shame they didn't reduce it earlier, as he would have attracted a lot more mares if he was priced like that in his first two seasons.

[Greg Hando]

All Foals Bred here in Oz 10% w/f used as Just acceptable IMO I didn't do any Trotter's just some first and second season sire's.

Real Desire 3yos 83 foals 65 strs 33wnrs 14 in 2.00 39.75%w/f Top
Four Starzzz Shark 2yos 141 foals 54 strs 15 wnrs 6 in 2.00 10.64% w/f Just
American Ideal 2 & 3yos 53 foals 21 strs 13 wnrs 8 in 2.00 24.54% w/f Good
J R Mint 2&3yo 64 foals 21 strs 10 wnrs 2 in 2.00 15.62% w/f Fair
Mandingo 2 &3 40 foals 13 strs 6 wnrs 3 in 2.00 15% w/f Fair
Pocketwatch 2yo 83 foals 28 strs 5 wnrs 2 in 2.00 6% w/f Poor
Ponder 2&3 106 foals 43 strs 22 wnrs 5 in 2.00 20.75% w/f Fair/Good
Camelot Hall 2yo 16 foals 8 strs 4 wnrs 2 in 2.00 25% w/f Top
Lis Mara 2yo 30 foals 6 strs 1 wnr 1 in 2.00 3.33% w/f Poor
On The Attack 2yo 39 foals 5 strs 1 wnr 1 in 2.00 2.56% w/f Poor
Sutter Hanover 2yo 34 foals 8 strs 1 wnr 0 in 2.00 Poor
Metropolitan 27 % w/f as above

Camelot Hall was placed as Top due to the fact he didn't get outside mares. All others are only an observation by me and only reflect my thought's.

[Nemera]

just curious but think you might be being a bit harsh on those with only 2yo crops racing. What are the 2yo winner to foal percentages just for the last season of some of the names ie mach Three, art major, christian cullen, bettor's delight, courage under fire just to give us a bench mark to compare to.

[Greg Hando]

just curious but think you might be being a bit harsh on those with only 2yo crops racing. What are the 2yo winner to foal percentages just for the last season of some of the names ie mach Three, art major, christian cullen, bettor's delight, courage under fire just to give us a bench mark to compare to.

No not harsh just an observation by me and what i think and how i would grade them.
Courage 2yos 64 foals 25 strs 8 wnrs 12.5% w/f just / fair
Art Major 2yos 181 foals 93 strs 53 wnrs 29.28% w/f good
M3 2yos 53 foals 41 strs 23 wnrs 43.40 % w/f top
Cullen 2yos 19 foals 8 strs 0 wnrs 0% w/f poor
Bettors 2yos 80 foals 49 strs 25 mnrs 31.25 % w/f top

[Big Max]

Lombo pocket watch, flop.......with Jet Lagg as his dad he will always battle in my opinion

[Triple V]

On The Attack only had the 39 foals but even so they didn't do much at all & that surprised me because as a racehorse he had that absolute maniac & verging on out of control high speed. He used to grab on and charge and the driver was just a passenger. I thought he might have passed some of that speed on here and there, but apparently not.

[Nemera]

No not harsh just an observation by me and what i think and how i would grade them.
Courage 2yos 64 foals 25 strs 8 wnrs 12.5% w/f just / fair
Art Major 2yos 181 foals 93 strs 53 wnrs 29.28% w/f good
M3 2yos 53 foals 41 strs 23 wnrs 43.40 % w/f top
Cullen 2yos 19 foals 8 strs 0 wnrs 0% w/f poor
Bettors 2yos 80 foals 49 strs 25 mnrs 31.25 % w/f top

I must be doing something wrong as had a crack at working a couple of these out and getting different percentages. Bettor's Delight had 80 Oz bred foals but can only find 17 oz bred winners which would drop % to 21. Similar with mach three 53 foals for 18 winners, and 33%. Still good results but where am I missing the winners

[Greg Hando]

Your right Rena i didnt take off the nz bred 2yo winners for Bettors and 16 2yo wnrs for M3 apologies.

[Big Max]

Call me biased but after our little darlings (The Arch Nemesis) win today at menangle,i'm a huuuuuge fan of Jeremes Jet.1.55.8 and all with only one eye,we had to take one out due to an infection.She is one gutsy little filly!!!

[broncobrad]

Alright Ross, you are biased. Just watched her replay and she is just that, gutsy as, sitting in the death and then pulling away. Driven very positively by young Morris. Good tough win, congrats.

[Big Max]

Hi Brad,as Jaimie said earlier in this thread I thought JJ would have done a very good job but unfortunately he hasn't.i think I'll stick with Bettors as my favourite closely followed by CC.

[Triple V]

Congrats on your filly's gutsy win Rosario.
I remember how good her dam was, we never saw it on the track...she suffered some sort of a setback with her breathing...but I know for certain that she could absolutely fly.

[Tangles]

Does anybody have a opinion of PB Bullville as a prospective sire?
His foals to winners ratio are appear quite encouraging. Any thoughts :confused:

[Big Max]

Has done an ok job up here in QLD