View Full Version : Bitobliss Vs ITMQ
Maorisidol
11-27-2012, 07:35 PM
At the end of the day exposed on the vast open spaces of Menangle, the Quinn wont have his little 800m saucer to dominate and relish with his devastating sprint unleashed.
As he was a little exposed and asked to go a little earlier than normal in the NZ Inter, his heart and stamina was found wanting against Captain Stamina, that is Smoken Up.
Bitobliss has won twice over 3150m first time in the death mind you, and if it comes to a battle and not a cosy sit sprint ITMQ will be quashed.
Great sit sprint opportunities await at Melton I feel, so there Quin has his best chance...
aussiebreno
11-27-2012, 09:44 PM
Victorians really do have a complex. It's been relentless ever since Dan Mileiki started it halfway down the straight on Saturday night.
Quinny ran 3rd in a Hunter Cup from 10m, much better than 2x Kilmore Cups of the last decade. He has also ran over a distance a couple times in Perth for wins including 1.56.5 rate. Just because is better with a sprint doesn't mean he doesn't have a heart.
Also an interesting mention of the NZ Inter. Who won that race ;) ?
800m saucers aren't exactly conducive to coming four and five wide and running 53 final halves. But the champ does it anyway.
Bitobliss is pretty bloody good, can't wait for Vic Cup, ID and Miracle Mile and any other possible match up!
Mitch
11-27-2012, 11:26 PM
I just hope HRV make the most of this enticing race to attract some much needed positive press in the general media. Here we have two of the most talented pacers, both in hot form, against a warhorse who can never be discounted. This will be the biggest race of the season!
Over to you HRV marketing team...
Big Mac
11-27-2012, 11:41 PM
Bitobliss for mine. He continues to improve, and steps up to the challenge at every occasion. Last years Vic Cup he broke his leg a lap out and managed to be there on the turn. If he stays sound, its a no brainer!!!
Toohard
11-28-2012, 02:12 PM
Last years Vic Cup he broke his leg a lap out and managed to be there on the turn.
And he beat ITMQ home in that race!:rolleyes::rolleyes:
Just looking at sectional times last Saturday night.
Bitobliss last mile 1.52.3. Fast sectionals and still kept going and ran away from them. Brilliant drive. Had to run the gate else might get caught 3 wide and have to go back and be behind Smoken Up. Let him go at exact right moment as Trigger don't get round the bends to good. Fast sectionals as Lance had a go right from the outset. Phenomenal performance!
Smoken Up last mile 1.52.44. Sat outside leader going that fast. Made leader work as for sure his best chance of winning. Gave everything else behind a chance to run him down and they couldn't. Beat the rest by 7m+. Champion!!! Wouldn't be writing him off just yet.
Lucky Camilla"s Lovechild
11-28-2012, 08:17 PM
And he beat ITMQ home in that race!:rolleyes::rolleyes:
Just looking at sectional times last Saturday night.
Bitobliss last mile 1.52.3. Fast sectionals and still kept going and ran away from them. Brilliant drive. Had to run the gate else might get caught 3 wide and have to go back and be behind Smoken Up. Let him go at exact right moment as Trigger don't get round the bends to good. Fast sectionals as Lance had a go right from the outset. Phenomenal performance!
Smoken Up last mile 1.52.44. Sat outside leader going that fast. Made leader work as for sure his best chance of winning. Gave everything else behind a chance to run him down and they couldn't. Beat the rest by 7m+. Champion!!! Wouldn't be writing him off just yet.
+2
broncobrad
11-28-2012, 09:26 PM
Leigh and Paul, I'm not going to have an argument with myself as one of Triggers biggest fans... but I thought Bitobliss (does anyone know his stable name?) performance last week heralded the arrival of a new superstar (just a bit later than we expected of him). He beat Smoken at his own game. I thought the old champ was found short by a horse close to the top of his game, I want to be wrong but feel I am not. It was the manner of Bitobliss at the end of the race that left my jaw on the ground, especially with my hard earned on the old boy. In the last couple of years I've learn't that if your horse gets the right run at Melton it just wins but Bitobliss made the race his own. Standout special in the Vic Cup.
Danno
11-29-2012, 12:43 AM
I am a huge Bitobliss fan, and have been for some time, however, he has, (regardless of his herculean performances) of few steps to take before he wears any true mantle of "greatness", as a matter of fact so do some of our modern day "superstars".
How many have contested more than 3 miracle miles,Interdominions,Victoria cups, NZ cups etc at handicaps?
our modern day "superstars" are competing at FFA conditions against horses far less experienced and seasoned...they (the non superstar horses) are not machines...when they go and bust their gut and still get beat they will go home with their tail between their legs, hurting not only from the pain of the contest but also with the pain of defeat, and if anyone thinks that the horses that manage to get to the elite level are not fully aware of whether they have been winning or losing, sorry but but you need to have another look.
BTW Brad, watch trigger closely for the signs of the abovementioned,it's very true that some run on their heart alone and I believe ( only from observation) that Trigger is one horse that fights above his weight partly due to an enormous belief in himself..
cheers,
dan
Maorisidol
11-29-2012, 04:48 PM
Victorians really do have a complex. It's been relentless ever since Dan Mileiki started it halfway down the straight on Saturday night.
Quinny ran 3rd in a Hunter Cup from 10m, much better than 2x Kilmore Cups of the last decade. He has also ran over a distance a couple times in Perth for wins including 1.56.5 rate. Just because is better with a sprint doesn't mean he doesn't have a heart.
Also an interesting mention of the NZ Inter. Who won that race ;) ?
800m saucers aren't exactly conducive to coming four and five wide and running 53 final halves. But the champ does it anyway.
Bitobliss is pretty bloody good, can't wait for Vic Cup, ID and Miracle Mile and any other possible match up!
Can u remember where Quin was in the run in that Hunter Cup Brenno and how much work he did in the run?
Answer, about 4-5 pegs from memory, did zip, got out late, unleashed the customary 537kmh sprint, 3rd.
All I'm saying Bitobliss showed great stamina over long distance.
As far as who won the NZ Inter, Quin never won it at all, he was defeated by a better horse on the day.
By theory his name is on the trophy but that whole catastrophe was just that, a catastrophe.
This is a whole other discussion, enough said not goin there, different topic/thread.
Just my opinion.
Will be a great race whoever wins.
aussiebreno
11-29-2012, 06:29 PM
Can u remember where Quin was in the run in that Hunter Cup Brenno and how much work he did in the run?
Answer, about 4-5 pegs from memory, did zip, got out late, unleashed the customary 537kmh sprint, 3rd.
All I'm saying Bitobliss showed great stamina over long distance.
As far as who won the NZ Inter, Quin never won it at all, he was defeated by a better horse on the day.
By theory his name is on the trophy but that whole catastrophe was just that, a catastrophe.
This is a whole other discussion, enough said not goin there, different topic/thread.
Just my opinion.
Will be a great race whoever wins.
What's wrong with being saved up for a final sprint though? It's not as if he is only joining in the race at the bell.
If anything it means you rely on luck and lose races you otherwise could have won.
You are thinking of the 2010 Hunter Cup!
I was actually making mention of the 2011 version (10m handicap), 3 wide last lap, Nathan Jack might have held him up a fraction too late when going 4 and 5 wide. Good thing beat, but as I said his racing style can get him beat sometimes. A hard run Vic Cup won't be a problem for the champ!
Mighty Atom
12-01-2012, 11:42 PM
Here we go again.....Bash ITMQ time from you lot over there. The Vic Cup will be an outstanding field with any number of horses capable of winning.One thing is certain of the Vics they will not be bending over forward to appease ITMQ with a barrier draw like the WATA does with visiting horses ( not that the champ needs a good draw ). One thing is certain, if he stays sound he will surpass Blacks a Fake's stakes earnings. At least he makes an effort to go east unlike the rest over there when it comes to our Pacing Cup......Oh that's right you did come over for the Inters AND LOOK WHAT HAPPENDED.
terror
12-02-2012, 08:54 AM
cant wait for the vic cup its going to be one hella of a race when u have itmq and bitobliss can run sub 27's its not much between them, its come down to tactic's and the barrier draw of smoken up. Regarding to the itmq hunter cup 2010 he wasnt the only one in that race to have a easy run and did they make any ground like itmq did? no
aussiebreno
12-08-2012, 09:15 AM
Not a bad run from a horse with no heart or stamina last night. I want to see this bloke time trial with a sit at Menangle. That and sprint home a final 400 wow
Toohard
12-08-2012, 02:20 PM
Not a bad run from a horse with no heart or stamina last night. I want to see this bloke time trial with a sit at Menangle. That and sprint home a final 400 wow
The beaten up old has-been went OK at Melton last night too. Off the back line, 3 wide round the first bend making ground when they going 1.54 rate and eventually rolled to the front. And then last 1/2 in 55.4 (27.1 home) (1.55.8 MR). Just warming up for next week!!
Hope they all draw to have their best chance next Saturday night.
Maorisidol
12-08-2012, 02:35 PM
Not a bad run from a horse with no heart or stamina last night. I want to see this bloke time trial with a sit at Menangle. That and sprint home a final 400 wow
No doubt a good run Brenno against the normal Perth FFA lot.
I want to see him do that in any race in the East.
Repeat his race last nite at Melton over same distance with Quin sitting outside Bliss Or Smoken, he wouldn't be winning.
And you know what, Hall wouldn't even dare choose to go to the death over here!
Last night he had Rakarebel taking ground off him at the finish and at 1:53.5 bliss or Smoken win no problem.
aussiebreno
12-08-2012, 03:09 PM
No doubt a good run Brenno against the normal Perth FFA lot.
I want to see him do that in any race in the East.
Repeat his race last nite at Melton over same distance with Quin sitting outside Bliss Or Smoken, he wouldn't be winning.
And you know what, Hall wouldn't even dare choose to go to the death over here!
Last night he had Rakarebel taking ground off him at the finish and at 1:53.5 bliss or Smoken win no problem.
Moot point re sitting outside TRigger or Bitobliss, they couldn't do it either. Hall never let Quinny down so again a moot point that Rakarebel made ground. Winners keep winning, haters keep hating!
aussiebreno
12-08-2012, 03:09 PM
The beaten up old has-been went OK at Melton last night too. Off the back line, 3 wide round the first bend making ground when they going 1.54 rate and eventually rolled to the front. And then last 1/2 in 55.4 (27.1 home) (1.55.8 MR). Just warming up for next week!!
Hope they all draw to have their best chance next Saturday night.going to be a long week waiting, first stop Cranbourne tonight.
broncobrad
12-08-2012, 06:20 PM
I just 'loved' watching Smoken last night, no stars to beat but he did it like he was just trying to prove a point (to me mainly) and that is not to write him off just yet. Gotta love 'boring old Smoken Up' as he has been tagged by one forum contributor some time ago.
Does anyone see Bitobliss getting rolled tonight because I have declared him, and if the $1.90 stands up I mightn't have to front up at work tomorrow.
Mighty Atom
12-08-2012, 07:01 PM
No doubt a good run Brenno against the normal Perth FFA lot.
I want to see him do that in any race in the East.
Repeat his race last nite at Melton over same distance with Quin sitting outside Bliss Or Smoken, he wouldn't be winning.
And you know what, Hall wouldn't even dare choose to go to the death over here!
Last night he had Rakarebel taking ground off him at the finish and at 1:53.5 bliss or Smoken win no problem.
Yes, and Smoken Up beat a very average Melton FFA lot, the same suspects that appear every week and you are also forgetting that 1:53:5 equates to a lot faster time at Melton. I'm afraid Smoken Up's time IS UP against the open class horses, just look what Excel Stride did to him a few months back over SU's pet distance. His earnings will only increase in dribs and drabs, Quinny is already well ahead of him.
Mighty Atom
12-08-2012, 07:23 PM
I just 'loved' watching Smoken last night, no stars to beat but he did it like he was just trying to prove a point (to me mainly) and that is not to write him off just yet. Gotta love 'boring old Smoken Up' as he has been tagged by one forum contributor some time ago.
Does anyone see Bitobliss getting rolled tonight because I have declared him, and if the $1.90 stands up I mightn't have to front up at work tomorrow.
Yep, that was me,must have struck an accord,everyone still remembers it.Maorisidol's favourite, but alas, not much Smoken Up to do with those old tyres - tread is wearing thin,maybe trade him in for a newer model - Bitobliss.
Mitch
12-08-2012, 07:26 PM
Great banter on here, I know its cliche but harness racing is going to be the winner if all horses hold their form going into the Vic Cup.
For the record I'm tipping Mah Sish to upset them tonight. I'll wait to see the final field and draw before making a call on the Vic Cup. Exciting times people.
broncobrad
12-08-2012, 07:37 PM
Yep, that was me,must have struck an accord,everyone still remembers it.Maorisidol's favourite, but alas, not much Smoken Up to do with those old tyres - tread is wearing thin,maybe trade him in for a newer model - Bitobliss.
G'day Rod, I knew full well it was you, good on ya' for sticking your hand up. We will never know what old SU would have done in that final over in WA (galloping out of that corner), but IMTQ was a fully deserving winner of the final (like your comment, that sprint that night is firmly etched in my grey matter).
What did Dan say last night "that was SU's 66th win" really, what more does he have to prove. Just a great warrior.
Looking forward to seeing the best of Bliss this season.
p plater
12-08-2012, 08:44 PM
It would appear that to be an up and coming Champion, you must beat Smoken Up. He has left his Melton base more than any other top liner to compete and still has won 66 races against all comers. It was Terrorway not long ago but he hasn't won since beating Smoken Up in Queensland, maybe he's the bet tonight.
Toohard
12-08-2012, 09:27 PM
Moot point re sitting outside TRigger or Bitobliss, they couldn't do it either. Hall never let Quinny down so again a moot point that Rakarebel made ground. Winners keep winning, haters keep hating!
Don't include us in the 'haters' Breno! We are huge Smoken Up fans but will be the first to applaud ITMQ should he get up next weekend.
Going to be a huge race. Nearly ran off road early this morning when "Sports" radio station talked about it. They cover all the big sporting events (crochet world championships, knit 1 - purl 1 contests, etc) but actually took some time to talk about it. Bout time we got some positives (excuse the pun) !!
GO TRIGGER!!
aussiebreno
12-08-2012, 09:34 PM
Don't include us in the 'haters' Breno! We are huge Smoken Up fans but will be the first to applaud ITMQ should he get up next weekend.
Going to be a huge race. Nearly ran off road early this morning when "Sports" radio station talked about it. They cover all the big sporting events (crochet world championships, knit 1 - purl 1 contests, etc) but actually took some time to talk about it. Bout time we got some positives (excuse the pun) !!
GO TRIGGER!!
I know you and your son will be cheering on trigger, that's all good in my books. I just don't like how one poster has slagged ITMQ. Cheer for a horse by all means, but don't slag one! Lol at the positives pun, and good to hear harness is getting some coverage. Will you be trackside next week?
Toohard
12-08-2012, 10:03 PM
i know you and your son will be cheering on trigger, that's all good in my books. I just don't like how one poster has slagged itmq. Cheer for a horse by all means, but don't slag one! Lol at the positives pun, and good to hear harness is getting some coverage. Will you be trackside next week?
ubetcha!!!!!!!!!
aussiebreno
12-09-2012, 12:15 AM
It would appear that to be an up and coming Champion, you must beat Smoken Up. He has left his Melton base more than any other top liner to compete and still has won 66 races against all comers. It was Terrorway not long ago but he hasn't won since beating Smoken Up in Queensland, maybe he's the bet tonight.
Well picked pplater. Bitobliss done all the work and only dropped out late, Stewart really eased him up late, hope he is ok.
p plater
12-09-2012, 12:17 PM
Well picked pplater. Bitobliss done all the work and only dropped out late, Stewart really eased him up late, hope he is ok.
Yes I hope Bitobliss is ok and just a warning for IMQ, not only will he meet horses next week that can do similar times to him, he will have to contend with Team McCarthy.
The second Terroway lost cover last night, off goes Luke on Mach Alert to give him cover and stick it up Bitobliss. Reminded me of the Queensland race I referred to
aussiebreno
12-09-2012, 02:44 PM
It will be interesting come ladyship mile time whether they set it up for Baby Bling or Our Sixpence.
Only joking mightymo, I bet it got a rise out of ya though!
Maorisidol
12-09-2012, 03:00 PM
I know you and your son will be cheering on trigger, that's all good in my books. I just don't like how one poster has slagged ITMQ. Cheer for a horse by all means, but don't slag one! Lol at the positives pun, and good to hear harness is getting some coverage. Will you be trackside next week?
I know you and your son will be cheering on trigger, that's all good in my books. I just don't like how one poster has slagged ITMQ. Cheer for a horse by all means, but don't slag one! Lol at the positives pun, and good to hear harness is getting some coverage. Will you be trackside next week?
Brenno,
I don't consider myself a hater of any horse, I simply question how Quinn races in comparison to others when he is predominantly a sit sprint athlete and then being lourded as a great champion. doing what he does in Perth is great but hes a one trick pony with that Unbeatable turn of foot on that little track against opposition that can't get anywhere near him.
And yes of course the aim is to win races anyway u can, and who cares how u do it when u get the cash, but for me, call me old fashioned but I grew up with Champs like Pure Steel, Gammalite, Poppy, and then Blackie. Now these guys were Tough these were Champions, these guys made me stand up at the end of a race at Moonee Valley and clap because of what they did and how they did it. They won races that defied normal horse ability and u would shake your head and ask how did they do that? They were 100% undisputedly Tough and that's what separates them from Quinn.
And Brenno u know what, this is just my opinion, and the good thing about a forum is everyone is welcome to their opinion.
That's why I actually started this thread cos I knew it would start a healthy discussion, it's like your footy team against mine if u like.
I don't hate Quinn, he's just not in the league of the best the sport has seen for me.
He needs to prove himself over here and travel Australia winning in all states pretty much a bit like Smoken Up and the horses mentioned before, before he is to be worthy of a "warhorse" tough as teak Champion for me, can I repeat that, for me, not u, for me, just my opinion.
I would love to see him step up and blitz a great field over here and do some work in the race like Elsu in his Hunter Cup for example, then he will have my attention.
Chariots
12-10-2012, 01:02 AM
Was New Zealand with two heat wins and beaten in the final by a horse that returned a positive swab a mirage?
P plater - do you think Terrorway wouldnt have found the line had he not received cover from Mach Alert? In watching the replay Mach Alert was pulling and did seem to contact the gig in front of him a few times so I can see why he went wide.
Cant wait to see what happens in the Vic Cup - should be a very exciting race to watch. Will also be interesting to see how well Bitobliss pulls up from this hard run and whether he will be right to back it up.
p plater
12-10-2012, 08:27 PM
P plater - do you think Terrorway wouldnt have found the line had he not received cover from Mach Alert? In watching the replay Mach Alert was pulling and did seem to contact the gig in front of him a few times so I can see why he went wide.
Cant wait to see what happens in the Vic Cup - should be a very exciting race to watch. Will also be interesting to see how well Bitobliss pulls up from this hard run and whether he will be right to back it up.
Toni, I notice in the stewards report Luke stating the horse was pulling hard but stayed in and you mention contacting the gig in front.....timing is everything
broncobrad
12-10-2012, 09:38 PM
Bailey, I wish you had posted your tip a bit earlier the other night, Terrorway (in my book the forgotten horse). Watched him at AP when he was first up in the Be Good Johnny Sprint and got bloused in around 1.52 something after doing a heap of work. He has then gone under twice to his stablemate Washakie who is absolutely flying at present. Then he gets put away for Cranbourne and I didn't give him a second look. More fool me, hats off to J. P. McCarthy thats a great training performance. I think looking at anything sinister into the drives of Mach Alert and Terrorway is simply a fantasy and deserves to be ignored. Had a quick look at Terrorways runs this time in, they have all been super performances but there was a moment in the back straight at AP in the Qld Pacing Championship when Luke was about to cross on Washakie, he took a look over the shoulder to see who was coming and then a second look to see who was on that horses back. Guess who it was and who was about to get the death chair, JPMc of course. That was just good vision by Luke as far as I am concerned and the most questionable act by the stablemates, but there was absolutely nothing in it.
Well picked Bailey, I hope you had something on him. Bitobliss looked like he was going alright underneath Mach Alert on the top turn but all that pressure finally told. They ran an amazing time. Does anyone know how Bitobliss pulled up? I would like to think he will be there for the Vic Cup.
aussiebreno
12-11-2012, 12:08 AM
Bitobliss fine to race in Vic Cup. Awesome news.
How exciting - cant wait to see the draw
broncobrad
12-11-2012, 03:57 PM
Wait no longer, heres the draw, pace is going to on from the get go.
http://www.harness.org.au/fields.cfm?mc=MX151212#7
Mitch
12-11-2012, 08:53 PM
On first look this could be really setup for horses drawn to race with a sit. Lance will go round them and put the heat on at some point. I think Sushi & Washakie look good value at the moment. Interesting to see what he does with Quinny??
aussiebreno
12-11-2012, 09:11 PM
On first look this could be really setup for horses drawn to race with a sit. Lance will go round them and put the heat on at some point. I think Sushi & Washakie look good value at the moment. Interesting to see what he does with Quinny??
Quinny should get into the running line pretty easy and it doesn't matter if he ends up one one or one out and six backs it won't matter too much. Probably end up close to last.
Too me it's a two horse race. Terror way if he can lead easy enough should win. Quinny if they go even moderate pace can probably sprint over the top. With the McCarthy attack you can see terror way getting an easy enough run but then with Smoken Up and Bitobliss and others you can't see it being a soft run affair, which will allow ITMQ to sprint over the top.
Bitobliss, Washakie, Smoken Up could conceivably win and most of the field could conceivably place. Of course I'm lacking in knowledge of NZ form though.
I couldn't back Quinny at his current price but will be cheering him on!
Mitch
12-11-2012, 09:29 PM
Brenno,
Hall Jnr may be forced to go forward off the arm otherwise if he ends up in the running line he may be forced to come 3 wide early or risk being pocketed! Remember everyone in the race will be out to beat him. I reckon his best bet might be to burn off the arm and then hand up to Smoken Up. He should then out sprint them up the inside via the lane?
The draw makes for an intriguing tactical battle. Going to be a cracker race!
Triple V
12-11-2012, 09:32 PM
I reckon Jnr won't use ITMQ too much too early. Instead he'll hold up and run over them late.
GO QUINNY! GO YOU GOOD THING!
aussiebreno
12-11-2012, 09:52 PM
Brenno,
Hall Jnr may be forced to go forward off the arm otherwise if he ends up in the running line he may be forced to come 3 wide early or risk being pocketed! Remember everyone in the race will be out to beat him. I reckon his best bet might be to burn off the arm and then hand up to Smoken Up. He should then out sprint them up the inside via the lane?
The draw makes for an intriguing tactical battle. Going to be a cracker race!
Could well. But they tried that in the Miracle Mile and failed and i read somewhere recently where Jnr said he wouldnt do that again. I doubt Terrorway will give it the lead easy and the one who he could hand up to would be Bitobliss, and after last week Stewart may opt for a sit, putting Quinny 3 back. Or maybe I'm reading far too much into it like I usually do with big races lol.
Nevertheless Every time he races he is in danger of bad luck because that's just his style. He can be last to come three wide and still win, his acceleration and top speed is just unbelievable. Play to his strengths IMO, go back and run over the top of them!
The great thing about harness is we will all find out soon enough.
Mitch
12-11-2012, 10:02 PM
Could well. But they tried that in the Miracle Mile and failed and i read somewhere recently where Jnr said he wouldnt do that again. I doubt Terrorway will give it the lead easy and the one who he could hand up to would be Bitobliss, and after last week Stewart may opt for a sit, putting Quinny 3 back. Or maybe I'm reading far too much into it like I usually do with big races lol.
Nevertheless Every time he races he is in danger of bad luck because that's just his style. He can be last to come three wide and still win, his acceleration and top speed is just unbelievable. Play to his strengths IMO, go back and run over the top of them!
The great thing about harness is we will all find out soon enough.
Exactly... We could both throw up a couple hundred different scenarios & still get it wrong. Can't wait for Sat nite - going to be a great race!
Maorisidol
12-11-2012, 10:05 PM
No doubt will be an intriguing race can't wait, unfortunately can't get there Sat nite, family Xmas function!!!
Anyone know how Terrorway gets out of the gate, haven't had a look at his replays yet and of course Butts were confident to try and lead in the NZ Cup recently not handing up Terror to Love, so they may try same?
Big question will Hall use that electrifying pace to lead as mentioned before then hand up?.
On Harness.org.au/news today I read this, classic!!!
"Despite his poor draw, Lance Justice was ebullient when interviewed on RSN, suggesting Smoken Up was at or very close to his best and that the Victoria Cup was no one horse race this weekend.
“We drew out the back last weekend and won easily so that was good practice for this week,” he said.
“Nothing’s really changed. We’ll be off and around them early and we’ll turn the race into a true staying test.
“It’s funny, because they asked us what song we’d like to accompany our horse when they walk out onto the track. I chose Titanium for Smoken Up, but I can think of one for a few other horses as well.
“If I was choosing one for Im Themightyquinn I’d go for The Great Pretender.”
Sorry Brenno, couldn't resist.
aussiebreno
12-11-2012, 11:14 PM
No doubt will be an intriguing race can't wait, unfortunately can't get there Sat nite, family Xmas function!!!
Anyone know how Terrorway gets out of the gate, haven't had a look at his replays yet and of course Butts were confident to try and lead in the NZ Cup recently not handing up Terror to Love, so they may try same?
Big question will Hall use that electrifying pace to lead as mentioned before then hand up?.
On Harness.org.au/news today I read this, classic!!!
"Despite his poor draw, Lance Justice was ebullient when interviewed on RSN, suggesting Smoken Up was at or very close to his best and that the Victoria Cup was no one horse race this weekend.
“We drew out the back last weekend and won easily so that was good practice for this week,” he said.
“Nothing’s really changed. We’ll be off and around them early and we’ll turn the race into a true staying test.
“It’s funny, because they asked us what song we’d like to accompany our horse when they walk out onto the track. I chose Titanium for Smoken Up, but I can think of one for a few other horses as well.
“If I was choosing one for Im Themightyquinn I’d go for The Great Pretender.”
Sorry Brenno, couldn't resist.
Funny man Lance and good to see him adding some spice to the race. But if ITMQ is a pretender I'd hate to see what Justice says about Trigger given the head to head is 5 to 2. :D
It might be safer trying to bet on the time they run rather than who is goin to win it :D
Im going to pick, Washakie, ITMQ, Terrorway - just to be a little different. Disclaimer - Im always depositing rather than withdrawing funds from my betting account :o
ifyousayso
12-12-2012, 01:57 PM
im expecting ITMQ to give them windburn then jnr to have a crack back at Lance after the race.
heres to hoping anyway
Toohard
12-12-2012, 01:58 PM
Funny man Lance and good to see him adding some spice to the race. But if ITMQ is a pretender I'd hate to see what Justice says about Trigger given the head to head is 5 to 2. :D
Here you go Brendan. http://www.harnesslink.com/www/Article.cgi?ID=102485
** Your private message box is full so can;t send you PM...
Big Max
12-12-2012, 04:20 PM
Terrorway for me,any horse that can sit outside Smoken Up and beat him and has barrier 2 as well, has got to be very very hard to beat.(love the odds as well)
Toohard
12-12-2012, 07:52 PM
No secret our pick. Was told by wise people many,many years ago. If you want to be involved in horses;
1. Enjoy
2. Never expect a return on your outlay
3. Enjoy
4. Have long arms and short pockets coz will always be shelling out
5. thru 7. ENJOY
8. NEVER, EVER, EVER give up on a champion
GO TRIGGER !!!!!!!!!!!!
Big Mac
12-12-2012, 08:34 PM
BOB for me. Always forgive a good horse one bad run.
p plater
12-13-2012, 11:34 AM
Trying to work out who will lead in the Vic Cup. The kiwi's on the front line are the unknown here.
Anyone with more knowledge help me here. Who leads after 200,400 and 600m before the moves start?
There are a few who could but do they want to after what we saw last week, must be able to withstand plenty of pressure.
broncobrad
12-13-2012, 12:27 PM
Bailey I am real knob (not nob) at speed maps...you put so much thought into how it will pan out, punt accordingly then watch it all turn to crap. Disclaimer now invoked. 'The' Gold Ace WILL lead, Mah Sish will take the trail, Terrorway and IMTQ will take sits but probably float back through the field as Smoken Up comes around. The Biggest ??? is what will they do with Bliss. They learnt a bit from last week when out of his comfort zone. I am thinking they will still go forward. Gold Ace has great form when leading, won the Gold Nugget over 2500 at GP last year leading it and recently knocked over Terror To Love in the NZ metro again leading, so he wont be handing up so easy but there is no way Lance is going change his mind.
Where does this leave us? The lead could be the poison chalice in this race if they don't back it off. For that reason, my top three are IMTQ, Washakie and Terrorway over the top of them, with Bliss still in there somewhere (if he is alright). People will be shaking their heads reading this. Can you imagine leaving horses like Melpark Major, Sushi and Carribean Blaster and SU out? Well you can only run 1, 2, or 3 and theres 13 of 'em. Will be cheering loudly if Trigger is still in front with 50 to go though bit different this year from 13, last year the pole, would be a task not many could achieve.
p plater
12-13-2012, 12:38 PM
Thanks Brad, as you say " The lead could be the poison chalice in this race". I see 3 go forward horses, Smoken Up,Washakie and Pembroke Benny not to mention Terrorway who may also go forward early. The leader could be under more pressure than Julia
Lucky Camilla"s Lovechild
12-13-2012, 05:37 PM
Bailey I am real knob (not nob) at speed maps...you put so much thought into how it will pan out, punt accordingly then watch it all turn to crap. Disclaimer now invoked. 'The' Gold Ace WILL lead, Mah Sish will take the trail, Terrorway and IMTQ will take sits but probably float back through the field as Smoken Up comes around. The Biggest ??? is what will they do with Bliss. They learnt a bit from last week when out of his comfort zone. I am thinking they will still go forward. Gold Ace has great form when leading, won the Gold Nugget over 2500 at GP last year leading it and recently knocked over Terror To Love in the NZ metro again leading, so he wont be handing up so easy but there is no way Lance is going change his mind.
Where does this leave us? The lead could be the poison chalice in this race if they don't back it off. For that reason, my top three are IMTQ, Washakie and Terrorway over the top of them, with Bliss still in there somewhere (if he is alright). People will be shaking their heads reading this. Can you imagine leaving horses like Melpark Major, Sushi and Carribean Blaster and SU out? Well you can only run 1, 2, or 3 and theres 13 of 'em. Will be cheering loudly if Trigger is still in front with 50 to go though bit different this year from 13, last year the pole, would be a task not many could achieve.
Brad did you check out where the release point was in the NZ FFA? Turned the race into a bit of a farce. I still like The Gold Ace though. And remember the owners knocked back $1m for him last year. Ironically from the owners of ITMQ.
Toohard
12-13-2012, 09:36 PM
http://www.harness.org.au/news-article.cfm?news_id=19491
There was one last jibe from Smoken Up’s master-trainer heading into the Group 1 contest. “There’s going to be no excuses from the horses that have drawn well, hopefully they’re not sick this year or they’re not off colour,” Justice said. “They’ve got the greatest excuse book under the sun some of them but if we’re not good enough we’re not good enough, that’s the way it is.”
Go Lance! Absolutely toooo true!
Son tells me on show called "Chasing and Pacing" tonite on Sky2 G. Hall Jnr said sumfin like "If we took a sit in Miracle Mile we probably beat Smoken Up".
Hello??? He did take a sit. Couldn't get past him.
aussiebreno
12-14-2012, 12:39 PM
http://www.harness.org.au/news-article.cfm?news_id=19491
There was one last jibe from Smoken Up’s master-trainer heading into the Group 1 contest. “There’s going to be no excuses from the horses that have drawn well, hopefully they’re not sick this year or they’re not off colour,” Justice said. “They’ve got the greatest excuse book under the sun some of them but if we’re not good enough we’re not good enough, that’s the way it is.”
Go Lance! Absolutely toooo true!
Son tells me on show called "Chasing and Pacing" tonite on Sky2 G. Hall Jnr said sumfin like "If we took a sit in Miracle Mile we probably beat Smoken Up".
Hello??? He did take a sit. Couldn't get past him.
She's going to be a long and solemn trip home Sat night! :p
broncobrad
12-14-2012, 01:42 PM
Brad did you check out where the release point was in the NZ FFA? Turned the race into a bit of a farce. I still like The Gold Ace though. And remember the owners knocked back $1m for him last year. Ironically from the owners of ITMQ.
Yes Leigh, Gold Ace certainly benefitted from that atrocious positioning of the start on the corner and led easily, still TTL was there at the right time and had his chance. Just saying he has got form to take advantage of a good barrier position.
On the "war of words" between Lance and GH Snr, it reads a bit like a movie script (the one that comes to mind being Sea Biscuit, the East Coast of America versus the West Coast complete with barbs and slurs). I don't think either horse deserves the put downs, they both have magnificent records and have completely opposing racing patterns. I hope a few forum users took the time to look at Smoken Ups fast lap. When the starter says go on Sat night all that rhetoric will be out the door and it will just be the drivers and their horses and the track and getting the business done...the last thing on their minds will be what we all think.
The more I think about the race, the more I warm to IMTQ (sorry Toohard) and Terrorway
Toohard
12-14-2012, 04:14 PM
She's going to be a long and solemn trip home Sat night! :p
:D:D
There'll be no sookin from us!
We'll just be happy to be there and to have witnessed what should be one of the best races for years. Weather forecast not looking good. Bring a brolly!!
"LETS GET READY TO RUMBLE!!"
p plater
12-14-2012, 04:22 PM
Yes Leigh, Gold Ace certainly benefitted from that atrocious positioning of the start on the corner and led easily, still TTL was there at the right time and had his chance. Just saying he has got form to take advantage of a good barrier position.
On the "war of words" between Lance and GH Snr, it reads a bit like a movie script (the one that comes to mind being Sea Biscuit, the East Coast of America versus the West Coast complete with barbs and slurs). I don't think either horse deserves the put downs, they both have magnificent records and have completely opposing racing patterns. I hope a few forum users took the time to look at Smoken Ups fast lap. When the starter says go on Sat night all that rhetoric will be out the door and it will just be the drivers and their horses and the track and getting the business done...the last thing on their minds will be what we all think.
The more I think about the race, the more I warm to IMTQ (sorry Toohard) and Terrorway
Well said Brad, Harness racing needs Lance for his sometimes outlandish remarks, how much good media has this race been given, all for free.
On your selections, does John McCarthy getting off Terrorway from such a good draw worry you?
broncobrad
12-14-2012, 04:45 PM
Well said Brad, Harness racing needs Lance for his sometimes outlandish remarks, how much good media has this race been given, all for free.
On your selections, does John McCarthy getting off Terrorway from such a good draw worry you?
No! He had to drive one of them and I can't see any disadvantage having Andrew on Terrorway. Would be interesting to see how they arrived at their decision though.
p plater
12-15-2012, 04:31 PM
It's going to be a great race tonight and there is so many variables. I can't work out what Jnr is going to do but at odds on when he must race out of his comfort zone and not on his favorite track, he's not for me.
My small Tab account will go for a bit of value, Bitobliss at $8 looks value (can't forget his run beating SU), $3 a place Smoken Up (He's a tough bugger and his stats show he rarely misses a place) looks value and my roughy who went well last week and just below the radar is Franco Jamar at $51 each way.
Regardless of the result, this has created a great drama and plenty of passion on this forum and in the media and should get a large audience tonight.
Good luck to all runners and good luck on the punt
Big Mac
12-15-2012, 07:42 PM
who would believe that this time last week bitobliss was a $2.50 second pick for the vic cup.1 bad run later and weve got $8.00. better for me i say. all the experts have said the bubble has burst. i will tell you now that scotty stewart has a hellium cannister and the bubble will be blown back up tonight. the bad run has provided us with better odds and has taken him away rom the spotlight. will be a great race
Mitch
12-15-2012, 11:45 PM
Hot race. Full credit to the winner.
I don't think there are any excuses for the beaten brigade. Quinny was excellent as was Mah Sish!
Looking forward to the Hunter Cup & Interdom.
p plater
12-15-2012, 11:50 PM
Congratulations to Rob Nalder and all involved with Caribbean Blaster, a great effort from horror draw in quick time.
It must be said that with the soft run and easy out at the top of the straight IMQ's bubble has burst, it's far harder playing with the big boys. That said there are a few more who disappointed from good draws
Mitch
12-16-2012, 12:14 AM
I don't think any bubble has burst. The first 3 were all excellent.
Given the work Quinny did early his run was excellent.
p plater
12-16-2012, 12:24 AM
I don't think any bubble has burst. The first 3 were all excellent.
Given the work Quinny did early his run was excellent.
Mitch, if you want to talk about work, what about Smoken Up 3 wide the entire until Washakie got a stitch
Mitch
12-16-2012, 12:31 AM
Yes I agree he did plenty of work as well. His run was also very good, as was Terrorway.
terror
12-16-2012, 04:07 AM
I dont want to sound like a complete prick but yet again gary jr broke under pressure in big races in the east side, its not the horse fault he lost ?? why did gary use his speed out of the barrier arms at the start??? what happen off belieaving in his speed????why play him out of his comfort zone??? even thou he had the sit behind the leader the pace was enought to take the sting away from his sprint, gary knew lance welll have the pace on god knows what gary was thinking
Toohard
12-16-2012, 10:24 AM
Yes I agree he did plenty of work as well. His run was also very good, as was Terrorway.
Average lead time 2240m at Melton is 46.4. Thats 631 metres from start to mile peg in 1.58.3 rate.
Terrorway 41.9 lead time the equal fastest ever at Melton - 631 metres from start to mile peg in 1.46.8 rate. Still there on the bend too.
Smoken Up 3 wide going forward virtually the whole trip. Still there on the bend and gave his supporters big thrill yet again. The ultimate champion! He's very brave.
Caribbean Blaster HUGE !!!
Know would be completely different if ITMQ doesn't run the gate but he did get to the pegs pretty easily and looked the winner on the turn. If he doesn't go forward at the start he probably ends up behind Washakie and gets carried back through the field going down the back like Gold Ace was.
All credit to the winner. Too good. A race to remember.
Great night. Huge crowd, great atmosphere and the storms stayed away.
Well done HRV!
Other highlight of the night was breeno on the leader board in the tipping comp!!
clumsy
12-16-2012, 12:17 PM
I dont want to sound like a complete prick but yet again gary jr broke under pressure in big races in the east side, its not the horse fault he lost ?? why did gary use his speed out of the barrier arms at the start??? what happen off belieaving in his speed????why play him out of his comfort zone??? even thou he had the sit behind the leader the pace was enought to take the sting away from his sprint, gary knew lance welll have the pace on god knows what gary was thinking
Gary Jnr perhaps did not give his horse the best chance to win but Lance absolutlely slaughted SU. I thought the stewards could have charged him for not giving the horse every chance to win. SU did a great job to hang on as long as he did.
p plater
12-16-2012, 12:21 PM
Gary Jnr perhaps did not give his horse the best chance to win but Lance absolutlely slaughted SU. I thought the stewards could have charged him for not giving the horse every chance to win. SU did a great job to hang on as long as he did.
Perhaps you might be a bit harsh here, maybe that question could be asked of John McCarthy on Washakie
clumsy
12-16-2012, 01:49 PM
Perhaps you might be a bit harsh here, maybe that question could be asked of John McCarthy on Washakie
John McCarthy went to the death and did not press on for the lead, Lance was out three wide and driving with aggression to cross to the death or lead when he should have known that those positions were not going to be given to him.
littlelenny
12-16-2012, 03:47 PM
Great Vic cup full of action throughout.
Once commited to going three wide i think Lance had to keep on pushing forward John had the choice to hand up. i would of but im not John so that was his decision.
Smoken up as usual another big run, he just never stops trying. True warrior
Quinny met the best and although it was a good run he had his chance, the winner was too good on the night.
Mah sish really surprised me he stepped up and showed he can mix it with the best if he gets the right draw.
Throw in Terror to love and Excel stride and what an interdominion we have to look forward to.
In my opinion I dont think any horse will dominate the next 12 months the barrier draws will hold the key.
We hopefully should witness some mighty battles cant wait.
terror
12-16-2012, 04:00 PM
Gary Jnr perhaps did not give his horse the best chance to win but Lance absolutlely slaughted SU. I thought the stewards could have charged him for not giving the horse every chance to win. SU did a great job to hang on as long as he did.
its pretty hard for the stewards to charge lance when he always driven smoken up that way
Maorisidol
12-16-2012, 06:48 PM
Caribbean Blaster awesome. 3wide last 1300m well done.
Mah Sish. Did zip, sprintlane, 2nd.
Quinn. Sprinted for 300m. Had the cosiest sit possible after that for the next 1700m while at least 6 other horses go 3 wide making moves and some left 3 wide the whole race. Could have sprintlaned, chose to come 3 wide and sprint another 250m but ran out of heart within about 100m. Fading 3rd. I rest my case.
Melpark, 3wide last 1300, 4wide and about 12-15 m behind Quinn at the 400, got within 4.8m, excellent.
Terrorway, came out the gate as well as he could, immediately pushed forward 3wide to take lead as Quinn eased for cover, used plenty of gas first 4-500m, plugged on quite well.
Franco Jamar settled 1 by 2, dragged back, last at 500, came home well with Melpark, came home well at Cranbourne too...
Smoken Up 3 wide for 2240! Shame he didn't get to the death at bell. Still may not have won but would have been closer great run he has obviously still got it.
Sushi, 4pegs, followed Mah Sish but lost at least 2lengths on that horse in straight, couldn't pass Trigger or Terrorway or Melpark who all worked very hard, terrible.
The Gold Ace, burnt out quick with Quinn, eased and got 1 by 1 then 1by 2, dragged back by weakening Washakie and then checked by Melpark at 350 when following Carribean, eased to the line cos too far back, keep safe.
Washakie, 3wide until 1100 from home when got the death, but then accosted by Trigger, gone at 600, tough run but by his standards expected a little better, apparently trainer disappointed too.
Bitobliss, similar run to Washakie but was afforded 1 by 1, dragged back by Washakie, dropped to pegs to follow Sushi but actually lost at least 20m or more on that horse, wasn't driven out by Stewart may have been kind to him, but similar result as Cranbourne!
Pembrook Benny, 3wide whole trip following Trigger, what was he thinking! Last by 55m.
Toohard
12-16-2012, 10:07 PM
Gary Jnr perhaps did not give his horse the best chance to win but Lance absolutlely slaughted SU. I thought the stewards could have charged him for not giving the horse every chance to win. SU did a great job to hang on as long as he did.
Slaughtered him? Not giving him every chance? That's the way he races! Smoken Up 3 wide entire race nearly finishes 2 lengths off of horse of the year who sat behind leader with cushy run the whole way. Washakie gone at 600m beaten 40m. Who giving their horse best chance to win?
So what was his best chance to win? Lance stated from day 1 what he was going to and did it. That was his best chance to win. No disrespect intended but you reckon Lance thought "Washakies in the death. I better not go forward"?
2minuteman
12-16-2012, 10:22 PM
I don't think any bubble has burst. The first 3 were all excellent.
Given the work Quinny did early his run was excellent.
The work he did early? Give me a break.
2minuteman
12-16-2012, 10:24 PM
John McCarthy went to the death and did not press on for the lead, Lance was out three wide and driving with aggression to cross to the death or lead when he should have known that those positions were not going to be given to him.
And given how the race was run,just exactly where do you think LJ should have been?
p plater
12-16-2012, 10:47 PM
Slaughtered him? Not giving him every chance? That's the way he races! Smoken Up 3 wide entire race nearly finishes 2 lengths off of horse of the year who sat behind leader with cushy run the whole way. Washakie gone at 600m beaten 40m. Who giving their horse best chance to win?
So what was his best chance to win? Lance stated from day 1 what he was going to and did it. That was his best chance to win. No disrespect intended but you reckon Lance thought "Washakies in the death. I better not go forward"?
Looking at Smoken Up's personal time last night, he ran 1.54.3 being 3 wide the entire trip. His track record is 1.53.4. Lance is right, he has come back near his best. The more you watch the replay the more respect SU must get. Outstanding, he made the race
Mitch
12-16-2012, 11:02 PM
The work he did early? Give me a break.
Hey Ron,
Find me another horse that has led out at Melton in 41.9 and been beaten 5m rating 1.53.7 over 2240m? The next fastest lead time last night over the same trip was some 3.2 sec slower (approx 40m) and that horse ran 82m last in a race that rated 1.57.5?
I'm not a Quinny fan, I backed Terrorway (who also went enormous IMO) and was cheering for Smoken Up also but I think all the flack Quinn is coping is a bit ridiculous. All things considered i believe his run was very good. I also think 4 or 5 other horses ran super races as well.
Overall it was a hot race and as always the best horse on the night won.
Benefit for all Quinny fans is that you now get a juicy price for the Interdom. Take it while you can.
Mitch.
Mitch
12-16-2012, 11:10 PM
Interesting to note that in the 2011 Vic Cup when Smoken Up set the track record of 1.53.4 his lead time from the 1 gate was only 43.5. Thats still some 20m slower than this year.
Just stating the facts.
Mitch
12-16-2012, 11:16 PM
It should also be noted that Aussiebreno is currently 5th on the HRV goodform tipping comp after last night.
Well done - a terrific effort!
I hope the wallet is a bit heavier as well.
Mitch.
broncobrad
12-16-2012, 11:45 PM
It should also be noted that Aussiebreno is currently 5th on the HRV goodform tipping comp after last night.
Well done - a terrific effort!
I hope the wallet is a bit heavier as well.
Mitch.
Has he been on the forum since the Blaster did the right thing for him or is he still drinking the profits, still dizzy with his new found fame? I am gonna start using horoscopes or numerology or something, my crystal ball is definitely malfunctioning at present.
My take is the race lived up to everything plus more, fireworks from the start, nobody got any favours, it was just a fan-bloody-tastic race. For Carribean Blaster he got dealt all the aces last night. Crap gate, drove for luck, capitalised on extreme pace, overcome slight setback in NZ, come on you guys, atleast no-one has knocked him. It has always been a tough, hard race and last night was a classic. Jealous of all you S.O.Bs who were lucky enough to be there.
I thought Terrorway, IMTQ and Smoken all contributed to making the race a class act. Bitobliss is not right, hope they get on top of it and Sushi has not made the next step up to be competitive at this level.
aussiebreno
12-17-2012, 02:38 PM
Dec Jasper race 2.3 seconds slower by mile rate but the Dec Jasper race was only 0.7 seconds slower by last mile. Also, the Dec Jasper race lead time 4.3 seconds slower.
Terrorway was in the leaders and Carribean Blaster couldn't run him down last week at Cranbourne. Terrorway was again in the leaders but Carribean Blaster made it a 16m turnaround in one week.
All that says the leaders in the Vic Cup had no chance.
Not just beaten but look how far back Bitobliss (prob not at his best), Washakie and Pembrook Benny were beaten (obviously were wide and working - but they were beaten a long way).
You don't see horses sit 3 wide for 2 laps and run past or stick on with the leaders. That happened in the Vic Cup. Yet again, saying it wasn't a race for leaders. (That's not discounting the runs of Blaster and Trigger - they went bloody huge)
Even if you look at Melpark Major. He couldn't run past Terrorway last week after having the easiest run imaginable. Hence he started $115. But he ran on good from the back and out wide and ended up beating Terrorway home. It just wasn't a race to be on pace after they burned.
For ITMQ to just go down like that has made me even more confident for the Interdom, especially now he is $3.40. He is the best horse in the land. If anybody wants to offer better than $3.40 come forth now.
2minuteman
12-17-2012, 02:56 PM
Looking at Smoken Up's personal time last night, he ran 1.54.3 being 3 wide the entire trip. His track record is 1.53.4. Lance is right, he has come back near his best. The more you watch the replay the more respect SU must get. Outstanding, he made the race
What he said!
Maorisidol
12-18-2012, 12:54 PM
Dec Jasper race 2.3 seconds slower by mile rate but the Dec Jasper race was only 0.7 seconds slower by last mile. Also, the Dec Jasper race lead time 4.3 seconds slower.
Terrorway was in the leaders and Carribean Blaster couldn't run him down last week at Cranbourne. Terrorway was again in the leaders but Carribean Blaster made it a 16m turnaround in one week.
All that says the leaders in the Vic Cup had no chance.
Not just beaten but look how far back Bitobliss (prob not at his best), Washakie and Pembrook Benny were beaten (obviously were wide and working - but they were beaten a long way).
You don't see horses sit 3 wide for 2 laps and run past or stick on with the leaders. That happened in the Vic Cup. Yet again, saying it wasn't a race for leaders. (That's not discounting the runs of Blaster and Trigger - they went bloody huge)
Even if you look at Melpark Major. He couldn't run past Terrorway last week after having the easiest run imaginable. Hence he started $115. But he ran on good from the back and out wide and ended up beating Terrorway home. It just wasn't a race to be on pace after they burned.
For ITMQ to just go down like that has made me even more confident for the Interdom, especially now he is $3.40. He is the best horse in the land. If anybody wants to offer better than $3.40 come forth now.
Come on Brenno, you cant be serious!
Quinn had the sit behind the leader, he had every chance, he has the fastest coiled up sprint of any horse, it was ideal, he had the barrier. He sat there for 1700m doin nothin.
Its a bit like you have fallen in love with a Super Model and you are star-struck or should i say pu**y whipped! You're blinded by the aura.
If he cant win that race being the Almighty Quinn and the hype that comes with him, seriously you have to question where the relationship between you and him is going!! :)
You poor guy, you had a date and walked away with blue ba**s!
For the whole race i thought he would pop out and win by 10m, it was a formality, but....pop, fizzle, nuthin.
p plater
12-18-2012, 02:05 PM
For what is worth, for me a true Champion is one that can do it both ends of a race, that makes them so great. From what we saw on Saturday IMQ is purely a sit sprinter, ran similar type of race in the MM when used early.
aussiebreno
12-18-2012, 02:20 PM
Come on Brenno, you cant be serious!
Quinn had the sit behind the leader, he had every chance, he has the fastest coiled up sprint of any horse, it was ideal, he had the barrier. He sat there for 1700m doin nothin.
Its a bit like you have fallen in love with a Super Model and you are star-struck or should i say pu**y whipped! You're blinded by the aura.
If he cant win that race being the Almighty Quinn and the hype that comes with him, seriously you have to question where the relationship between you and him is going!! :)
You poor guy, you had a date and walked away with blue ba**s!
For the whole race i thought he would pop out and win by 10m, it was a formality, but....pop, fizzle, nuthin.
Lol nice post!
My date was with Carribean Blaster though, got to home base as well mind you (see my selection thread).
However, there is no doubt in my mind that ITMQ is the best horse in the country. Swap his run with Carribean Blaster and Quinny wins hands down.
It's something like 7-2 in Quinnys favour now V Smoken Up. I think that says a great deal when those two have been the dominate horses since BAFs departure. You might favour Smoken Ups dogged courage and never say die attitude better but you can't deny ITMQ is a superb horse.
So how about it, the 'heartless' one is at $3.40 with TAB, what will you give me?
Toohard
12-18-2012, 02:47 PM
Just read this in stewards report.
Bitobliss and Pembrook Benny NZ both underwent post-race veterinary examinations which revealed Bitobliss to be lame in the off foreleg and Pembrook Benny NZ to be lame in the near hind leg. Both horses have now been stood down from racing until receipt of a veterinary clearance.
Also... based on sectional times for race they just sent out, Terrorways lead time 41.9. So my maths (and it's not real good!) says Caribbean Blasters 43.54. He was near last at the mile from memory so all the others must have times somewhere in between.
Caribbean Blaster last mile 1.54.76
Smoken Up 1.55.81
Melpark Major 1.55.91
Mah Sish 1.56.14
ITMQ 1.56.48
Maorisidol
12-18-2012, 03:38 PM
For what is worth, for me a true Champion is one that can do it both ends of a race, that makes them so great. From what we saw on Saturday IMQ is purely a sit sprinter, ran similar type of race in the MM when used early.
So true Bailey,funny how the West Aussies (and other fans) cant see that when he races over here, its like they cant admit to it.
Thanks Paul for the mile rates, tells a story doesnt it.
aussiebreno
12-18-2012, 04:26 PM
So true Bailey,funny how the West Aussies (and other fans) cant see that when he races over here, its like they cant admit to it.
Thanks Paul for the mile rates, tells a story doesnt it.
As I thought, willing to bag him but not willing to bet against him :D
terror
12-18-2012, 06:59 PM
itmq has won a race from leading before and just before he came east he won from sitting park at his last wa start, I like to see smoken up come from the rear in the last 400-500 meters and let see if he can do it from both ends, but the way lance drives smoken up we well never know
p plater
12-18-2012, 07:15 PM
itmq has won a race from leading before and just before he came east he won from sitting park at his last wa start, I like to see smoken up come from the rear in the last 400-500 meters and let see if he can do it from both ends, but the way lance drives smoken up we well never know
Doing it both ends in the same race, not one or the other. Like this http://media.harness.org.au/nsw/MEM30041103.wmv
littlelenny
12-19-2012, 01:13 AM
terror i have alot of respect for quinny there is no doubt that he is a superstar he has a freakish turn of speed and is so dominant in W.A, but he had every chance in the vic cup to unleash that sprint and couldnt. Against the very best he needs to be driven cold and when jnr does that then he needs luck of not running into a traffic jam.
In regards to Smoken up i think Bailey's post has answered that fair and square.
Quinny will go back to W.A and dominate the two features in January as well as the inter heat in February because around Gloucester Park he is near unbeatable, but it will be back to a level playing field come interdominion time and barrier draws will again be so vital.
After watching Mah sish in the Vic Cup and seeing how easily Terror to love ran past him in the NZ Cup I wonder could he be the new kid on the block. Well lets not get ahead of ourselves the inter is still about 2 months away.
Maorisidol
12-19-2012, 08:16 AM
100% on all counts Littlelenny
will be very interesting to see how Terror to Love performs over here, looking forward to it.
Big Max
12-19-2012, 01:28 PM
Interesting how so many people say that "barrier draws will be all important" Barrier 12 was a lovely draw for C Blaster, and you see it so often in big races that "bad barriers" turn into good barriers because these races are rarely lead,sit up and dash home type races.Maybe with 10 across the front draws are more important, but a longer distance normally negates that because moves need to be made.i won't be put off backing something that draws wide that's for sure.
Toohard
12-19-2012, 03:46 PM
So true Bailey,funny how the West Aussies (and other fans) cant see that when he races over here, its like they cant admit to it.
Thanks Paul for the mile rates, tells a story doesnt it.
Guess those sectional times things tell a story...just not sure what the story is! They handy if you use them with other things I guess eg. watching replays. Can often spot one thats run a much better race than what it looks like at first glance knowing the times its gone.
Son and I made a spreadsheet. Can get each horses actual mile rate for entire race and then use those sectional times to work out each horses lead time as well. Then can adjust for them being two wide, three wide etc. Use all that and can work out what they would have gone if went same speed as actually did go, but were on the pegs. Don't know that means anything either though!! The ones that were on the pegs don't get adjusted at all but would have gone quicker had they been on the back of one that would have gone quicker.
Eg Race distance 2240m. Caribbean Blaster ran approx 2274 metres. 4 bends - 4.25m extra for each if 2 wide, 8.5m if 3 wide, etc He went round 2 - 3 wide 1 - 4 wide and 1 -2 wide.
So (2 x 8.5) + (1 x 12.75) + (1 x 4.25) = 34metres. This from a kid who was doing no good at maths!!:cool::cool:
He went 1.53.7 milerate. Adjust that for fact he went 34ms further than race distance becomes 1.52.06. ITMQ was on fence around every bend except last one when he hooked out near end of bend. So his time not adjusted much. Stays about 1.54. But had he been on back of Caribbean Blaster going 1.52 no doubt he goes quicker.
Also they give you sectionals in 400m blocks. Say one 1/4 says went 28. Might be 200m in 15, 200m in 13. If 2nd 200m is round a bend and horse out 3 wide its actually gone heaps quicker.
And then you have stuff like might be 3 wide with cover or 3 wide with no cover, etc etc etc... How do you adjust for that? Some horses can cop no cover, some can't. Then interference, etc
They still a handy tool though.
Gold Ace finished 9th. We got him finishing 5th and he got held up behind Washakie going down back. And he ran the gate too.
When we get our spreadsheet perfect will corner the market!!
Danno
12-20-2012, 12:20 AM
Love your work Paul,
I am in neither camp on this one, however I recall an episode many years ago when I was still training on the Newcastle Showground, it was a very wet and muddy Sunday morning workouts, the track ( in those days 550 Yards circumference) was really slippery and even pacework with a set horse was about as quick as you'd like to go...along comes one of the local blokes and he says his horse worked it's last lap in 40 seconds!!!! ( the track record at the time was held by Bold Biami at 40.8 secs, and Bold Biami had just won the NSW Derby and RC Simpson Sprint)
I said to this bloke, mate did you have your watch turned on for the whole lap?????
He goes, aww yeah, the clock said 46 seconds , then I took off 3 seconds for the mud, another 2 seconds cos we worked a cart off the fence, and another cos I reckon he could have gone a bit quicker if I'd really got up him!!!!!
A very good old trainer once told me..dont worry about clocks and times, dont worry about what you ran second to and how the race panned out, measure your horse on what he can beat.
Cheers,
Dan
clumsy
12-20-2012, 01:20 AM
Paul
I always look at the lead time, this usually tells if the race is going to be won by a horse coming from the back or if the front four are going to be hard to best. I like your work on the times.
Toohard
12-20-2012, 03:32 PM
Love your work Paul,
I am in neither camp on this one, however I recall an episode many years ago when I was still training on the Newcastle Showground, it was a very wet and muddy Sunday morning workouts, the track ( in those days 550 Yards circumference) was really slippery and even pacework with a set horse was about as quick as you'd like to go...along comes one of the local blokes and he says his horse worked it's last lap in 40 seconds!!!! ( the track record at the time was held by Bold Biami at 40.8 secs, and Bold Biami had just won the NSW Derby and RC Simpson Sprint)
I said to this bloke, mate did you have your watch turned on for the whole lap?????
He goes, aww yeah, the clock said 46 seconds , then I took off 3 seconds for the mud, another 2 seconds cos we worked a cart off the fence, and another cos I reckon he could have gone a bit quicker if I'd really got up him!!!!!
A very good old trainer once told me..dont worry about clocks and times, dont worry about what you ran second to and how the race panned out, measure your horse on what he can beat.
Cheers,
Dan
:D:D:D:D
Reckon you're right. Heaps of other variables too but sometimes the times can help you spot one that comes out at big odds shortly after. Apart from $16 quaddie we take when we go to Melton Friday am not a punter but still take keen interest.
Give you an example. Watch this race - Race 7 TABCORP PARK MELTON 30 November. http://media.harness.org.au/vic/MXM30111201.wmv
Watch the horse in yellow that comes out of 7 (Wartime Sweetheart). Goes back and last at the mile. Never gets into the race really. If watching replay probably wouldn't think much of run.
The winner goes alright!! Winner went 1.56.4 last mile. 3rd horse Decorated Jasper went 1.55.97 last mile and came out and won last Saturday night. Wartime Sweetheart went fastest last mile (1.55.57) of the race. Had 1 run since. Drew back line and never got into race. In again tomorrow night and drawn back line again. Some fast ones off the front so speed will be on I reckon. If it goes 1.55.57 last mile again it won't be far off them and be big odds.
**NB** - Of all the $16 quaddies we've taken we've snagged 2. One paid $15.20 !!:o
Big K
01-09-2013, 05:46 AM
For what is worth, for me a true Champion is one that can do it both ends of a race, that makes them so great. From what we saw on Saturday IMQ is purely a sit sprinter, ran similar type of race in the MM when used early.
Are you suggesting that in your opinion Popular Alm and Village Kid Aren't true champions???? or are you just merely trying to tarnish ITMQ.
p plater
01-09-2013, 12:59 PM
Are you suggesting that in your opinion Popular Alm and Village Kid Aren't true champions???? or are you just merely trying to tarnish ITMQ.
Kevin, sorry if you have taken my posts the wrong way. I never saw Popular Alm or Village Kid race live, my interest must have started after yours.
Having looked at the Grand Circuit Champion honour roll, I must admit I was surprised to see that Popular Alm was not on it and so many people regard him as the best ever pacer.
I have no knowledge of Sunshine Band who appears but the rest of the names on the list should be regarded as Champions IMO.
Your comment made me have a closer look at a couple and was surprised to see that Village Kid (GC Champion in 1988) raced solely in the Eastern States between 1985-1988, I alway thought he was a WA champion who travelled to compete in the East.
Everyone has their favorites and mine are those who you would want on your side in a scrap, the tough buggers who can do 2 or more runs in a race and you know not to write them off even if things don't go their way, but thats just me.
Mighty Atom
01-09-2013, 04:09 PM
I am fortunate to have seen all the great champions race from the 60's to the present. I have said in the past that as far as watching a pacer in action nothing compares to Gundary Flyer. My true, one and only champion is the great Pure Steel or as he was known in his heyday ''The Tungsten Terror''. He never won an I.D. and others went out of there way to make sure he didn't. But his numerous G1 victories were outstanding ( four Hunter Cups ). A Miracle Mile win coming from last sitting three wide the last lap over the mile and this was from a horse that was renown for long distance races. Pure Steel's match up race with Satinover in 1980 drew 30,000 people to G.P. At one stage he was the highest stakes earner both thoroughbreds or standardbreds. Sunshine Band came over from Queensland for the W.A.Pacing Cup ( the year eludes me ); his victory in one of the heats was the most emphatic I have seen, coming from a long last on the turn he won his heat. It must be said however that Sunshine Band returned a future positive swab so a question mark remains over the horse.
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