Stewards Report Please...

[Maorisidol]

Hall Jnr has a massive jostle with Quinn and Mysta Magical Mach on first bend...
Quinn caught 3 wide, goes to last
Hall sooks at the back like he's not interested and wants to get his toys and run home...
Didn't try too hard for mine...couldn't catch Mysta who was 3wide last lap
Will be interesting stewards report.

Also, why wouldn't Hall ping straight to the lead from barrier 4 with his speed, especially when barrier 3 gallops at the start, and especially when his stablemate has the lead from 2? Every man and his dog knows the stablemate will hand up...
Too many questions for me... Stablemate wins and pays $8.5
And.......
How can he start at $1.20 against that lot from barrier 4 for gods sake!!!!!!!
$1.04 I would have thought!

[broncobrad]

Missed the race (worked a late) but that was the first race replay I wanted to look at and the bloody replay doesn't show the start. Bugga. So all I get to see is Hall trying to box in Harper (I think?), in those same bully boy tactics we saw about 12 months ago which I was lambasted for to some degree on the forum. They raced pretty tight before Hall gave up the ghost, allowing the stable-mate to waltz away with the race. I won't be expecting any notable comments in the report. You start to get used to it. On the other hand that has been another huge night by the stable...a 6 bagger no less, with some good priced animals tipping out some shorties from the same yard.

[p plater]

Hall Jnr has a massive jostle with Quinn and Mysta Magical Mach on first bend...
Quinn caught 3 wide, goes to last
Hall sooks at the back like he's not interested and wants to get his toys and run home...
Didn't try too hard for mine...couldn't catch Mysta who was 3wide last lap
Will be interesting stewards report.

Also, why wouldn't Hall ping straight to the lead from barrier 4 with his speed, especially when barrier 3 gallops at the start, and especially when his stablemate has the lead from 2? Every man and his dog knows the stablemate will hand up...
Too many questions for me... Stablemate wins and pays $8.5
And.......
How can he start at $1.20 against that lot from barrier 4 for gods sake!!!!!!!
$1.04 I would have thought!

Totally agree. Either IMQ not on his game or the Vic Cup early burn still gives Jnr nightmares.
Of course one could be forgiven for thinking that the winner who is owned in the same interests, was the best bet of the night if IMQ took care of MMM and then not try.
Not a performance for a horse the West claim Australia's best.

[p plater]

From the article http://www.harnesslink.com/www/Article.cgi?ID=102888

"Bill Delaney, chairman of the RWWA panel of stewards, told Hall jun. that his jostling with Mysta Magical Mach (Kyle Harper) in the early stages of Friday night's race was "at the top end of the serious scale" but said the panel would not impose a suspension, taking into account his engagements to drive in major carnival events over the next few weeks."

Is it one rule for for the Hall's and bugger the rest.

Pleaded guilty and fined $500..............What a joke.....He earnt $000's in percentages on the night......some penalty!

[p plater]

Found this interesting from the Stewards Report from Gloucester Park 11/12/12 race 4

"Stewards inquired into the reason why TUHIMATA GLASS NZ (Gary Hall Jnr) was obliged to race three-wide racing out of the back straight to receive the bell. After taking evidence from Gary Hall Jnr and Bruce Stanley (ENJOYABLE) it was established that TUHIMATA GLASS NZ was obliged to race wider as Mr Stanley has moved ENJOYABLE into the one-wide line when not clear of TUHIMATA GLASS NZ. Mr Stanley was found guilty to a charge issued under the provisions of Rule 163(1)(b) in that he made another horse cover more ground than necessary. His reinsperson’s licence was suspended for 17 days. He was given a deferment of that suspension of 6 days with the penalty to take effect following his drives at Pinjarra on Monday 17 th December 2012. In determining penalty his good driving record was taken into account."

The 2 rule theory?

[Maorisidol]

From the article http://www.harnesslink.com/www/Article.cgi?ID=102888

"Bill Delaney, chairman of the RWWA panel of stewards, told Hall jun. that his jostling with Mysta Magical Mach (Kyle Harper) in the early stages of Friday night's race was "at the top end of the serious scale" but said the panel would not impose a suspension, taking into account his engagements to drive in major carnival events over the next few weeks."

Is it one rule for for the Hall's and bugger the rest.

Pleaded guilty and fined $500..............What a joke.....He earnt $000's in percentages on the night......some penalty!

Bill Delaney needs to learn the meaning of the word "penalty".
"the panel would not impose a suspension, taking into account his engagements to drive in major carnival events over the next few weeks."
Thats the point Bill, its a penalty. Its supposed to clean up ALL drives so that Mr Hall WILL be scared of getting a penalty so he CAN drive in the "major carnival".
How on earth is $500 a deterrent to Hall? seriously, the stable won the race (i wont mention any notion of Hall having a dollar on the winner) and he won other races on the night.
Would love to hear from the owners of Quinn and what they were thinking seeing their million dollar pacer being used as a Demolition Derby chariot under the auspicious "care" of Captain Crash em up Hall Jnr himself...
Was Jnr thinking of the horse and the upcoming major stakes on offer in Perth, or the Inter dollars on offer when jostling so fiercely? Or was he simply ensuring he would claim his dominance over any driver that what he wants he gets?
Now before Hall fans get on here and have a go at me for this post, i only have a go at him because you dont see Gavin Lang, Chris Alford, Luke McCarthy, Mark Purdon etc doing the crap that Hall does SO OFTEN, and more annoying the home town Stewards looking after their golden child having rules for all drivers and rules for Hall because he has a big carnival coming up!

[terror]

gary is just a arrogant driver never did like his driving,if itmq was going to lose its because of gary hall jr, I kinda feel sorry for that horse itmq, i wounder if that gust buster run on fri night and victoria cup taken it toll him now

[Lenem]

Incredible that his apparent "lack of interest" later in he race didn't rate a mention in the stewards report!

[Big Max]

Both horses owned in similar interests.

[LisaB25]

agree with most on the comments and deff question the drive myself
fan of the quinn and hopefully see him bounce back next week
As snr said he's been kind to him since his float trip back from the east
hopefully strips fitter after that one and hes back at his best next week.
He's still run home in 27.8, 28 & 28.5..

[p plater]

agree with most on the comments and deff question the drive myself
fan of the quinn and hopefully see him bounce back next week
As snr said he's been kind to him since his float trip back from the east
hopefully strips fitter after that one and hes back at his best next week.
He's still run home in 27.8, 28 & 28.5..

Lisa, no one here has had a go at IMQ's ability on Gloucester Park, after all he has been unbeaten in almost 2 years (18 starts) on the track. Your Champ was not given the chance to extend that record last Friday night.
As the thread header states "Stewards Report Please" which is about Jnr's tactics.

Any other driver would have been given time for the antics at the start of the race and possibly for the lack of interest for most of the race...he set IMQ an impossible task.

Having read the article which reported what the Chairman of Stewards said, it really does appear Jnr is getting special treatment in the Stewards room and its not the first time.

Here is a report on the first night of the 2004 Perth Interdominion.....This has been going on for a long time, who else is treated this way?
"
First Night: 12 March 2004 Heats 1-4 1740m

Talented 21yo Perth reinsman Gary Hall Jnr two days after being suspended for 28 days for his drive on pre-series favourite The Falcon Strike NZ drove two of the four heat winners in the opening round of the Ross North Inter Dominion Championship.
After WA stewards ruled on the Wednesday that Hall could begin his suspension AFTER the series was completed, he wasted little time in making the most of this decision by winning the opening heat with Faking It, and then two heats later scored an impressive win with The Falcon Strike NZ. The other two heats were claimed by Mister D G NZ and Buck The Odds. "

[littlelenny]

We can only assume that this report is correct, then this would be very dissapointing for the other drivers in W.A who have copped suspensions for lesser offences. The top end of the serious scale and only a fine, also you would think that his engagements over the next few weeks is irrelevant. How about all the other drivers in the past who depend on the income of driving to survive should they get have been let off.

From what we read it doesnt seem fair.

"Bill Delaney, chairman of the RWWA panel of stewards, told Hall jun. that his jostling with Mysta Magical Mach (Kyle Harper) in the early stages of Friday night's race was "at the top end of the serious scale" but said the panel would not impose a suspension, taking into account his engagements to drive in major carnival events over the next few weeks."

[p plater]

Stewards report " IM THEMIGHTYQUINN NZ (Gary Hall Jnr) – Driver pleaded guilty to a charge of causing jostling issued under the provisions of Rule 163(1)(a) for, when racing three wide, having jostled MYSTA MAGICAL MACH NZ (Kyle Harper) from racing out of the back straight on the first occasion until entering the front straight on the first occasion in an effort to gain a position in the one-wide line. Mr Hall Jnr was fined $500. In determining penalty, Stewards were mindful of the circumstances of the incident in that MYSTA MAGICAL MACH NZ had not lost its racing position and that in similar cases in recent years fines of up to $200 had been imposed. In imposing a higher than usual penalty for this offence, Stewards advised Mr Hall that they considered his actions to be more serious as he had continued to jostle for far longer than necessary and in their opinion, he had been attempting to gain a position to which he was not entitled as MYSTA MAGICAL MACH NZ had clearly obtained a position one wide prior to him attempting to shift inwards."

Well well, ...."he was not entitled as MYSTA MAGICAL MACH NZ had clearly obtained a position one wide prior to him attempting to shift inwards."
as well as....."they considered his actions to be more serious as he had continued to jostle for far longer than necessary"
and to justify...."that in similar cases in recent years fines of up to $200 had been imposed" unusual to qualify the reasoning for the fine,

No mention of Jnr's drive after the jostling, when he gave the horse no chance......must have been a good drive to official eyes, he was $1.20 fav!

Cheers fellas its Jnr's shout at the bar. What do protected species drink????????

[broncobrad]

I'm pretty sure the penalty imposed had ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to do with this ...

http://www.harnesslink.com/www/Article.cgi?ID=102915

[mary]

Agree with what you guys say.....have protected ones elsewhere too inc Menangle.

Also,

What I don't get is that Kevin Jeavons from Perth owns both Terrorway & Washakie & they are at a ss trial at menangle. Its a $400,000.00 race!

[Maorisidol]

Agree with what you guys say.....have protected ones elsewhere too inc Menangle.

Also,

What I don't get is that Kevin Jeavons from Perth owns both Terrorway & Washakie & they are at a ss trial at menangle. Its a $400,000.00 race!

Could it be a standing start qualifier for the Hunter Cup????

[mary]

Could it be a standing start qualifier for the Hunter Cup????

Thanks Ash but i think both are qualified for ss.
If they were mine they would be in WA Racing for the 400 thou. Washakie went last year & Terror is more than capable. The Hunter Cup is weeks away.

[Maorisidol]

Thanks Ash but i think both are qualified for ss.
If they were mine they would be in WA Racing for the 400 thou. Washakie went last year & Terror is more than capable. The Hunter Cup is weeks away.
I'd definitely have Washakie in Perth he loves that track, but Terrorway may not fit onto it, hes too big!!!!!

[Mighty Atom]

Well I think Mr Jeavons may have learnt his lesson from the last 2 W.A. Pacing Cups and as for all the talking up from Dean Braun regarding Mustang Mach,well obviously he thought he had more chance winning the Bendigo Cup. The other 2 star Victorians Smoken Up and Caribbean Blaster choose to race for a paltry $ 125,000 in the S.A.Pacing Cup when they could have travelled a bit further west and raced for $ 400,000. Please no excuses about blaming the track at G.P. because Globe Derby is also an 800 metre track.
As I have said before about the distances W.A. horses have to travel interstate and then have to travel back by float (ITMQ) because of uncertainty of flight arrangements - what a joke. Of all the STARS racing in the east not one had the temerity to travel to W.A.

[Maorisidol]

Well I think Mr Jeavons may have learnt his lesson from the last 2 W.A. Pacing Cups and as for all the talking up from Dean Braun regarding Mustang Mach,well obviously he thought he had more chance winning the Bendigo Cup. The other 2 star Victorians Smoken Up and Caribbean Blaster choose to race for a paltry $ 125,000 in the S.A.Pacing Cup when they could have travelled a bit further west and raced for $ 400,000. Please no excuses about blaming the track at G.P. because Globe Derby is also an 800 metre track.
As I have said before about the distances W.A. horses have to travel interstate and then have to travel back by float (ITMQ) because of uncertainty of flight arrangements - what a joke. Of all the STARS racing in the east not one had the temerity to travel to W.A.

Hey Roddy!
Wondering where u have been, u have been very quiet since Quinn's domination of the Vic Cup!!! Oh sorry, a feat a bit too tough for Mr 200m...
And how do u assess Master Halls drive from last week?

[p plater]

Well I think Mr Jeavons may have learnt his lesson from the last 2 W.A. Pacing Cups and as for all the talking up from Dean Braun regarding Mustang Mach,well obviously he thought he had more chance winning the Bendigo Cup. The other 2 star Victorians Smoken Up and Caribbean Blaster choose to race for a paltry $ 125,000 in the S.A.Pacing Cup when they could have travelled a bit further west and raced for $ 400,000. Please no excuses about blaming the track at G.P. because Globe Derby is also an 800 metre track.
As I have said before about the distances W.A. horses have to travel interstate and then have to travel back by float (ITMQ) because of uncertainty of flight arrangements - what a joke. Of all the STARS racing in the east not one had the temerity to travel to W.A.

Your are right when you say the uncertainty of flights makes it difficult to plan such a trip unless you travel weeks ahead of any race to give the horses time to recover. This is obviously why IMQ doesn't contest the big races in the eastern States regularly. There was talk years and years ago about racing getting their own plane.

Then again, maybe the chance of Jnr knocking them over and risking maybe a $900 fine just not worth their risk with valuable horses.

[Big K]

Well I think Mr Jeavons may have learnt his lesson from the last 2 W.A. Pacing Cups and as for all the talking up from Dean Braun regarding Mustang Mach,well obviously he thought he had more chance winning the Bendigo Cup. The other 2 star Victorians Smoken Up and Caribbean Blaster choose to race for a paltry $ 125,000 in the S.A.Pacing Cup when they could have travelled a bit further west and raced for $ 400,000. Please no excuses about blaming the track at G.P. because Globe Derby is also an 800 metre track.
As I have said before about the distances W.A. horses have to travel interstate and then have to travel back by float (ITMQ) because of uncertainty of flight arrangements - what a joke. Of all the STARS racing in the east not one had the temerity to travel to W.A.

Hi Rod,well what a nasty little thread this is turning out to be!! I checked on a few of some of the poster's past comments over a previous period of time and quickly realized that their posts are quite tainted with green and jealous thoughts regarding ITMQ and Gary Hall Jnr.
If you are to believe some of these people;
Apparently wining two Inter Dom Finals drug free in two different countries accounts for cheap yellow shots.
Travelling to NSW and running second in the 2009 Chariots is a joke.
Being the biggest certainty beat in a Hunter Cup in 2010 against champion horses means you cant win in Victoria.
Winning the Cranbourne Cup in 2010 against champion horses showing how important two hundred meters can be means you cant win in Victoria.
Running third in the 2010 Victoria Cup against champion horses means you are just a joke.
As is running third against champion horses in the 2011 Hunter Cup.
Running third in the 2011 Miracle Mile(Menangle) Means you are "nothing" to some people on this site.(plus you cant win in Victoria).
And much to the relief of some people he ran last in the 2011 Victoria Cup against champion horses.
And to the releif of some people only ran third in the 2012 Victoria Cup against champion horses.
Oh I almost forgot about him winning the 2011 Auckland Cup and have a look who finished behind him..hey but he's no good.
He has amassed $3,200 000 in stake money but this means nothing to some experts.????? Go figure.

Yes Gary Hall Jnr does appear arrogant,sometimes he does drive a bad race every so often.Sometimes champion sports people are like that.
Here in Western Aus we love the guy.He promotes the sport and crowds turn up to watch.Plenty of great drivers have driven bad races,its not a problem for people who dont hate them.
And yes you are right Roddy where are all these dodging great Eastern Staters????

[G-Mac]

The other 2 star Victorians Smoken Up and Caribbean Blaster choose to race for a paltry $ 125,000 in the S.A.Pacing Cup when they could have travelled a bit further west and raced for $ 400,000

Melbourne - Adelaide: 727km
Melbourne - Perth: 3,276km

[p plater]

Hi Rod,well what a nasty little thread this is turning out to be!! I checked on a few of some of the poster's past comments over a previous period of time and quickly realized that their posts are quite tainted with green and jealous thoughts regarding ITMQ and Gary Hall Jnr.
If you are to believe some of these people;
Apparently wining two Inter Dom Finals drug free in two different countries accounts for cheap yellow shots.
Travelling to NSW and running second in the 2009 Chariots is a joke.
Being the biggest certainty beat in a Hunter Cup in 2010 against champion horses means you cant win in Victoria.
Winning the Cranbourne Cup in 2010 against champion horses showing how important two hundred meters can be means you cant win in Victoria.
Running third in the 2010 Victoria Cup against champion horses means you are just a joke.
As is running third against champion horses in the 2011 Hunter Cup.
Running third in the 2011 Miracle Mile(Menangle) Means you are "nothing" to some people on this site.(plus you cant win in Victoria).
And much to the relief of some people he ran last in the 2011 Victoria Cup against champion horses.
And to the releif of some people only ran third in the 2012 Victoria Cup against champion horses.
Oh I almost forgot about him winning the 2011 Auckland Cup and have a look who finished behind him..hey but he's no good.
He has amassed $3,200 000 in stake money but this means nothing to some experts.????? Go figure.

Yes Gary Hall Jnr does appear arrogant,sometimes he does drive a bad race every so often.Sometimes champion sports people are like that.
Here in Western Aus we love the guy.He promotes the sport and crowds turn up to watch.Plenty of great drivers have driven bad races,its not a problem for people who dont hate them.
And yes you are right Roddy where are all these dodging great Eastern Staters????

Love the passion but your comments confirm a lot of the points made on this forum....Those champion horses you refer to, race against each other every month in a stronger racing market ...the Eastern States. No disrespect here but the usual pattern is for horses who aren't quite top graders in the East are sent or sold to the West and become FFA class over there and they are the ones IMQ beats regularly...not his fault, you can only beat what's put in front of you. Like the recent cricket series.
Just for accuracy IMQ has now gone over $3,4000.000.
Kevin, just look at the field for this weeks Bendigo Cup G2 and only $50,000, i'm sure the powers to be in the West would be doing handstands if IMQ was to race them in your $400,000 FFA this week.
On Jnr, yes he is a show pony and yes he must draw a crowd and at times does drive some outstanding races, his judgement of speed around Gloucester Park is outstanding but no matter how you look at it, he should of got time for his drive last week, any other driver would have and that's not good for the sport in WA

[Big K]

Love the passion but your comments confirm a lot of the points made on this forum....Those champion horses you refer to, race against each other every month in a stronger racing market ...the Eastern States. No disrespect here but the usual pattern is for horses who aren't quite top graders in the East are sent or sold to the West and become FFA class over there and they are the ones IMQ beats regularly...not his fault, you can only beat what's put in front of you. Like the recent cricket series.
Just for accuracy IMQ has now gone over $3,4000.000.
Kevin, just look at the field for this weeks Bendigo Cup G2 and only $50,000, i'm sure the powers to be in the West would be doing handstands if IMQ was to race them in your $400,000 FFA this week.
On Jnr, yes he is a show pony and yes he must draw a crowd and at times does drive some outstanding races, his judgement of speed around Gloucester Park is outstanding but no matter how you look at it, he should of got time for his drive last week, any other driver would have and that's not good for the sport in WA

Your post still implies ITMQ is only any good in WA When his resume shows something different.There may be only one horse in the East at best with a resume as good as his.I believe you are trying to undermind the horse.
Yes last years Inters in Perth showed how weak the racing is here.
Jnr Hall is a great driver and yes he should get time or a penalty if he breaks the rules,totally agree. But I think you can find stewards that are bewilldering in their interpretation of the rules throughout Aus and NZ.

[p plater]

Your post still implies ITMQ is only any good in WA When his resume shows something different.There may be only one horse in the East at best with a resume as good as his.I believe you are trying to undermind the horse.
Yes last years Inters in Perth showed how weak the racing is here.
Jnr Hall is a great driver and yes he should get time or a penalty if he breaks the rules,totally agree. But I think you can find stewards that are bewilldering in their interpretation of the rules throughout Aus and NZ.

IMQ is brilliant in WA....no question about that.
Here's some facts.
His overall start to win ratio 48% 91 starts for 44 wins (outstanding)
In WA 66.6% 48 starts for 32 wins (brilliant)
In the eastern states 18.1% 11 starts for 2 wins
In NZ 31.2% 32 starts for 10 wins

[Mighty Atom]

Hey Roddy!
Wondering where u have been, u have been very quiet since Quinn's domination of the Vic Cup!!! Oh sorry, a feat a bit too tough for Mr 200m...
And how do u assess Master Halls drive from last week?

Hi Ash, I will say that I don't think that ITMQ is an overly robust horse and with the tyranny of distance travelling from the west I think it just takes the edge off him; having said that he does show up and only once has been out of the money unlike your 'stay at home powder puff champions'. They have no problems venturing over if they think they can win ( Chancellor Cullen ) but revalue when beaten.

Footnote: I think I should explain my dislike of anything Victorian........It stems from our champion galloper Northerly's 2001 Cox Plate win when Victorians stood around and booed the horse because he had beaten your perennial favourite NZ mare Sunline, a feat he did every time they met. Its something I haven't gotten over easily.

[aussiebreno]

Hi Ash, I will say that I don't think that ITMQ is an overly robust horse and with the tyranny of distance travelling from the west I think it just takes the edge off him; having said that he does show up and only once has been out of the money unlike your 'stay at home powder puff champions'. They have no problems venturing over if they think they can win ( Chancellor Cullen ) but revalue when beaten.

Footnote: I think I should explain my dislike of anything Victorian........It stems from our champion galloper Northerly's 2001 Cox Plate win when Victorians stood around and booed the horse because he had beaten your perennial favourite NZ mare Sunline, a feat he did every time they met. Its something I haven't gotten over easily.
I was only a kid when Northerly was going around. One of his owners kids (parents seperated) used to live down the road from me. Needless to say I was a big Northerly fan.
It's interesting another head to head, ITMQ leads Smoken Up about 7-3.

It's also interesting that ITMQs Travelling Gp 1 record is 11S 3W 7P. Not many can match that at the best of times let alone travelling across a few time zones.

[Mighty Atom]

I was only a kid when Northerly was going around. One of his owners kids (parents seperated) used to live down the road from me. Needless to say I was a big Northerly fan.
It's interesting another head to head, ITMQ leads Smoken Up about 7-3.

It's also interesting that ITMQs Travelling Gp 1 record is 11S 3W 7P. Not many can match that at the best of times let alone travelling across a few time zones.

Thanks Brendan, I need a bit of back up, I'm usually out there on a limb on my own.

[Mighty Atom]

Your post still implies ITMQ is only any good in WA When his resume shows something different.There may be only one horse in the East at best with a resume as good as his.I believe you are trying to undermind the horse.
Yes last years Inters in Perth showed how weak the racing is here.
Jnr Hall is a great driver and yes he should get time or a penalty if he breaks the rules,totally agree. But I think you can find stewards that are bewilldering in their interpretation of the rules throughout Aus and NZ.

Hi Kevin, do agree with the depth of racing or lack of in W.A. but if last years Inters were held in any state and only the 5 or 6 best horses turned up then there wouldn't be much difference in the quality of the fields but possibly bigger numbers of the also rans. The G1's do attract the class horses but the FFA's whether it be Menagle or Melton are no more brimming with talent than the local FFA's and these would be the horses making up the Inters fields but we should remember it was the also rans that finished in the placings in 2012.

[p plater]

I was only a kid when Northerly was going around. One of his owners kids (parents seperated) used to live down the road from me. Needless to say I was a big Northerly fan.
It's interesting another head to head, ITMQ leads Smoken Up about 7-3.

It's also interesting that ITMQs Travelling Gp 1 record is 11S 3W 7P. Not many can match that at the best of times let alone travelling across a few time zones.

Brendan, do you have the stats on Blacks A Fake in Group 1 races. His overall was 105 starts for 72 wins 68%

[Big K]

Hi Kevin, do agree with the depth of racing or lack of in W.A. but if last years Inters were held in any state and only the 5 or 6 best horses turned up then there wouldn't be much difference in the quality of the fields but possibly bigger numbers of the also rans. The G1's do attract the class horses but the FFA's whether it be Menagle or Melton are no more brimming with talent than the local FFA's and these would be the horses making up the Inters fields but we should remember it was the also rans that finished in the placings in 2012.

Hi Rod,really it was a tongue in cheek comment with deeper meaning to the positive rather than just the words regarding WA's quality pacer's.WA horses did finish 123 in the final and during the heats many track records were broken with many of our horses going down by small margins against the Grand Circuit horses and in many cases winning or showing equal footing.Have a look at "Can Return Fire's" run at Menangle on the 14/04/12 ,great run for a weak WA horse.Pity he couldn't back it up 14 days later but we know the difficulties in travelling and horses producing their best every start.

[p plater]

Strange one, Why the need to officially defend a Stewards ruling. http://www.harness.org.au/news-article.cfm?news_id=19670

[Toohard]

The other 2 star Victorians Smoken Up and Caribbean Blaster choose to race for a paltry $ 125,000 in the S.A.Pacing Cup when they could have travelled a bit further west and raced for $ 400,000.


Melbourne - Adelaide: 727km
Melbourne - Perth: 3,276km



Smoken Up goes to Adelaide every year for the SA Cup.

http://www.harness.org.au/news-article.cfm?news_id=19679

We drove over last year for it. Great atmosphere and he pulls a big crowd.

http://www.harnessracingforum.com/showthread.php?1986-The-most-disgraceful-Grand-Circuit-field-in-many-a-year-if-of-all-time!/page4

This year sons 12th birthday falls on this Saturday. Couple of our favourite horses running in Bendigo Cup. Said to him we can have BBQ lunch birthday party for you. Then can drive up (just over an hour), go to the races and stay up there. Then drive home Sunday. "But Smoken Ups going to Adelaide dad". He'd rather sit in car for 9-10 hours (x2) and go watch him.

"I'll have to ask your mum"
"I already asked her and she said OK"

"We ain't driving to Adelaide in 40 degree heat"
"I checked already and only going to be 29 on Saturday"

"What about the other kids? Reckon they'll want to see you on your birthday"
"I already asked them and they said OK if I buy them a present"

"I dunno he can win it this year. Caribbean Blaster going over for it"
"It's not about winning, it's about supporting dad"

"What clown told you that?"
"You did dad. Anything else to say dad?"

"Pack your bag boy. Go Trigger!!"

[Mighty Atom]

No disrespect here but the usual pattern is for horses who aren't quite top graders in the East are sent or sold to the West and become FFA class over there and they are the ones IMQ beats regularly...not his fault, you can only beat what's put in front of you. Like the recent cricket series.

Hi Bailey,
Got to say its a long time since trainers here purchased horses from the east to race as FFA performers in W.A.- they're generally not up to the standard. If you look at W.A. cup field all NZ next to names. G.Hall stable waiting on the arrival of eleven horses from NZ. The Bendigo Cup field is very impressive but I think it needs an explanation as to why your G1 horses are not keen to take on our FFA performers in WA Pacing Cup or 'WA FFA Cup' as Maorisidol puts it. Speaks volumes for the calibre of our lowly FFA horses.

[G-Mac]

If I had one in Vic or NSW right now that was a Grand Circuit contender, the key races in the lead in to the ID Final would look like this:

08/12/12: Cranbourne Cup $100k
15/12/12: Victoria Cup $400k
02/02/13: Hunter Cup $400k
16/02/13: ID Heats $50k
03/03/13: ID Final $750k

This leaves a gap in my prep between 15/12/12 - 02/02/13 where I want my charge to run 1 or 2 times to keep it on the boil and hopefully get the owners some good coin. My options are:

11/01/13: WA Pacing Cup $400k
12/01/13: SA Cup $125k
12/01/13: Bendigo Cup $50k
18/01/13: Fremantle Cup $250k
25/01/13: Ballarat Cup $150k
19/01/13: Shepparton Cup $50k

If I'm based in Victoria I'm thinking Bendigo and Ballarat Cups are an ideal lead in to the Hunter Cup and onward from there. Yes there is more money on offer in WA but it would mean getting the horse over there, used to conditions, then race and bring it home. Plenty of variables and the journey could end up fruitless as there are many variables. Why go all that way when suitable races are on offer near home and offering adequate reward? I don't think anyone is dodging WA because the field would be too hot as you are suggesting, I think it is more an issue of logistics and the cost-benefit analysis applied to the excursion. A 6,000km round trip in the middle of your prep to a huge race is less than ideal. Unfortunately I think the WA and Fremantle Cup just isn't scheduled in a way to attract ES visitors anymore. Last year was different as they were coming anyway. I love WA harness racing and GP having spent many years attending the track myself, so don't take it as me having a go at the standard of WA racing. I think they will have to look at rescheduling the race in the future as the ID will be in Sydney until 2015 and this will keep happening.

On another note I heard Adam Hamilton say Hall Senior was considering going to the Hunter Cup and not contesting the ID as it is easier to get to Melbourne than Sydney. Anyone heard anything further on that.

[Maorisidol]

Great post G-Mac, logic all the way.
Going 6000km mid prep when its Cup season in Eastern states is frought with many variables and many dangers that could cause the Eastern state prep to go "offstride".
No offence again but the 800m track at GP is so different to these Eastern horses who race at Menangle Melton and other 1000m tracks. its just a damn long way to go and have seen many Vic horses go there and get pushed all over the place by WA drivers who stop at nothing to get them beat. Just my opinion guys from what i have seen.
Moving these next 2 WA features next couple of years makes so much sense if WA wants an AUSTRALIAN Group 1 not a WA Group 1...
I wonder if they can work that out themselves or are they too stubborn?
Would love to see a competitve race anywhere everywhere in Oz with a great field with a broad lot of chances not just Quinn plus Mysta Magical Mach and 2 other real hopes.

[aussiebreno]

It is my belief that WA horses are bound by and must uphold a different set of standards to Victorian horses in regards to travel, risks and performance.
Hi mate, I summarised your posts for you into one sentence.

[dizzy]

Ash would changing the dates be enough or without "match practise" on an 800m track in the eastern states might they stay away anyway?

[broncobrad]

After Quinnys domination of the WA Cup last night, it is has become abundantly clear to me that Gary Hall Jnrs penalty last week of $500 for jostling (usually the max being around the $200 mark for similar offences) is a paltry sum and could not be conceived in anyway as being a deterrent for that type of behaviour. But even so, no matter which way you look at it, it was Livingontheinterests 'turn'. That was 'his' race. The horse being jostled by Hall was the stables 'biggest' danger Mysta Magical Mach whose run under the circumstances was super and poor old IMTQ who should have got snagged much earlier, burnt petrol he hasn't got for both ends before ensuring his demise.

The penalty was a limp-wristed action to appease those of us that think something isn't right. Doesn't appease me one bit.

Last night we saw the real IMTQ, this time afforded a lovely three wide cart into the race (no assertions there, thats how the horses were positioned), by the Livinontheinterest who compounded to finish 80m last after doing 'his job'. Just not his turn last night. Last weeks race sucked for a lot of reasons, the biggest one being that the winner was afforded all the favours by Hall ensuring MMM never got a look in.

Why can't the charge of jostling be upgraded to an 'unnacceptable drive', the charge of choice lately by NSW stewards and time be given as well. I won't intimate anything untoward in relation to possible team driving here, even though its sticks out like you know what. Its been argued as to what it is that holds harness racing back for punters in general, why the sport just doesn't make that next step in attracting a larger viewing and punting audience...drugs in the sport has been strongly debated on this forum, but as one VVV would have said, the punters don't see that as an issue. (I do but from a different perspective). The punter sees the shit that happens on the track and what we saw last week was that in spades. Thats what they form their opinions on.

[Mighty Atom]

Good luck to all in the SA Pacing Cup tonight especially Smoken Up and contrary to what you may think about what I have said about The horse in previous posts I really do think he is a great champion.
In my humble opinion he is the only horse racing in the modern era that I would put in similar company to the great Pure Steel for sheer guts and determination.
It would be befitting to see him win his fourth SA Cup.

[p plater]

Well put Brad, even the racecaller last night said " it was going to script". I think NSW is trying to stop it using the unacceptable drive charge plus the new COT.

[Triple V]

Now that Mr. Cable is no longer sitting in the big chair many including myself simply hope for a fairer and more consistent application of both rules Bailey, as ridiculous...in and of itself...as the COT rule is.
The recently tacked on pre-race interview of Trainers with multiple starters in a race merely adds to the abject absurdity of it all.
I've been giving it some thought and I suggest that it be made a regulation that everyone must wear a plastic Groucho Marx glasses/eyebrows/nose and moustache combo...
http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/31WGdfA%2BKmL._SL500_AA300_.jpg
in any and all such pre & post race meetings, the subsequent comedic apperances of all involved duly befitting of just such an occasion.

[p plater]

VVV, as a general rule, I think COT meetings are silly but I suspect it is was introduced as a fix all to stop or limit team driving by the bigger stables. There so many variables from release point. You know the script, lead, hand up to the chosen one then wait for no3 to cover the death position. Walk up front, sprint home, go and collect.
Or provide the runner to give the chosen one the ideal easy suck up.
The hobby trainer has no hope and these are the guys and gals needed to keep the sport going.

[littlelenny]

Rod Smoken up is definetly a great champion and lets hope he gets that 4th S.A Cup.

Reading Pauls post below thats exactly what the industry needs going into the next generation of supporters. We need more people like Paul and his son.

Pauls post
"This year sons 12th birthday falls on this Saturday. Couple of our favourite horses running in Bendigo Cup. Said to him we can have BBQ lunch birthday party for you. Then can drive up (just over an hour), go to the races and stay up there. Then drive home Sunday. "But Smoken Ups going to Adelaide dad". He'd rather sit in car for 9-10 hours (x2) and go watch him.

"I'll have to ask your mum"
"I already asked her and she said OK"

"We ain't driving to Adelaide in 40 degree heat"
"I checked already and only going to be 29 on Saturday"

"What about the other kids? Reckon they'll want to see you on your birthday"
"I already asked them and they said OK if I buy them a present"

"I dunno he can win it this year. Caribbean Blaster going over for it"
"It's not about winning, it's about supporting dad"

"What clown told you that?"
"You did dad. Anything else to say dad?"

"Pack your bag boy. Go Trigger!!"
.

[p plater]

VVV, as a general rule, I think COT meetings are silly but I suspect it is was introduced as a fix all to stop or limit team driving by the bigger stables. There so many variables from release point. You know the script, lead, hand up to the chosen one then wait for no3 to cover the death position. Walk up front, sprint home, go and collect.
Or provide the runner to give the chosen one the ideal easy suck up.
The hobby trainer has no hope and these are the guys and gals needed to keep the sport going.

Race 5 Menangle....slower than the MO.....tactics .....see above

[Danno]

Race 5 Menangle....slower than the MO.....tactics .....see above

Looked a bit ordinary didn't it???

by the way can anyone tell me the motive for all these owners all of a sudden giving Belinda McCarthy their horses to train?? I mean she may well be a very proficient trainer, it's just mostly people GRADUALLY get the kudos sufficient for a bunch of ( on the surface ) unrelated owners to entrust them with their A class livestock, but Belinda seems to be breaking a few records in that respect and for the life of me the reasons don't appear that obvious.

[p plater]

Dan, a few are doing this now, not being the trainer Luke can drive outside horses ie his Dads and secondly if another swab problem or training problem was to occur, Luke is free to still drive.

[mightymo]

As someone who had a horse in the race, Im interested to know what you would have liked to happen? Did you want Franco Jamar to hold the lead and then be battered into submission by Excel Stride and Washakie? Did you want to Sixpence to hold the breeze and suffer the same fate?

I think most people expected the race to unfold exactly the way it did, and i cant see what was wrong with it...





Looked a bit ordinary didn't it???

by the way can anyone tell me the motive for all these owners all of a sudden giving Belinda McCarthy their horses to train?? I mean she may well be a very proficient trainer, it's just mostly people GRADUALLY get the kudos sufficient for a bunch of ( on the surface ) unrelated owners to entrust them with their A class livestock, but Belinda seems to be breaking a few records in that respect and for the life of me the reasons don't appear that obvious.

[broncobrad]

I see this one the same as Harvey. Theres no way this class of horse can do slow qtrs and the two strongest horses were not going to be trifled with when they got the 1 - 2 positions. Suicide if they do. Reckon sometimes we are seeing things that just ain't there.

[Danno]

As someone who had a horse in the race, Im interested to know what you would have liked to happen? Did you want Franco Jamar to hold the lead and then be battered into submission by Excel Stride and Washakie? Did you want to Sixpence to hold the breeze and suffer the same fate?

I think most people expected the race to unfold exactly the way it did, and i cant see what was wrong with it...

Harvey my comment was it LOOKED ordinary, and how often do McCarthy horses hand up the lead or the death? Answer not often and this race LOOKED ordinary because that happened twice, and the handing up was to stablemates, thats why I commented it LOOKED ordinary.

BTW I don't suppose you'd like to comment on the rest of that post? I'm a little curious thats all.

Cheers,

Dan

[mightymo]

How often does a trainer have FOUR horses in a field and 2 of them are grand circuit horses??

As to the other question, I have absolutely no issue with Belinda being the official trainer. The reality is that any trainer has a team of people working the horses, planning their preps etc. Its not one person who does everything.

No different to many other training regimes - eg. Maree/John Caldow, Greg/Skye Bond, Emma Stewart/Tonkin

[dizzy]

I will be interested in what the stewards thought of Franco Jamar in the run to the line.

Danno the usual harness racing suggestions have been put forward but might I suggest that the ATO income tax thresholds may have played a role. Before anyone jumps on me I don't know for sure and there would be nothing wrong with it if it was.

[broncobrad]

I will be interested in what the stewards thought of Franco Jamar in the run to the line.

Danno the usual harness racing suggestions have been put forward but might I suggest that the ATO income tax thresholds may have played a role. Before anyone jumps on me I don't know for sure and there would be nothing wrong with it if it was.

Not jumping on you Dot, but whats your point there?

[mary]

As someone who had a horse in the race, Im interested to know what you would have liked to happen? Did you want Franco Jamar to hold the lead and then be battered into submission by Excel Stride and Washakie? Did you want to Sixpence to hold the breeze and suffer the same fate?

I think most people expected the race to unfold exactly the way it did, and i cant see what was wrong with it...



When Franco Jamar won 7 of his 8 races some time back he was driven to lead at all costs & kept the lead & won running 1.51 or 1.52 etc , so yes I expected him to hold the lead, because he obviously went well when he did, didn't he?
He galloped out in the MM. (against group 1 horses).

[dizzy]

Brad I'm no accountant but there are at least two who read this board and could advise accordingly. If Luke derives all the income from the training and driving fees then then they are likely to be subjected to a higher rate of tax then if the income is split with Belinda, if it goes into a business then I have no idea how it works so over to the accountants, just a thought as all my colleagues would love to be able to split their income with their non working wives, not that I'm suggesting that Belinda isn't "working"

[mightymo]

if FJ held the lead, and Excel Stride held the breeze, Washakie would have poured the pressure on to force FJ to yield. Would have been good for my horse, but i dont think that would have been in the best interests of FJ.

In recent times against this class of horse, FJhas been driven with a sit, so there would also have needed to be a COT which was not given.

[broncobrad]

Brad I'm no accountant but there are at least two who read this board and could advise accordingly. If Luke derives all the income from the training and driving fees then then they are likely to be subjected to a higher rate of tax then if the income is split with Belinda, if it goes into a business then I have no idea how it works so over to the accountants, just a thought as all my colleagues would love to be able to split their income with their non working wives, not that I'm suggesting that Belinda isn't "working"

Do'h!!! Now I see where you are heading...and like you said earlier, can't see a problem with that.

[mary]

Brad I'm no accountant but there are at least two who read this board and could advise accordingly. If Luke derives all the income from the training and driving fees then then they are likely to be subjected to a higher rate of tax then if the income is split with Belinda, if it goes into a business then I have no idea how it works so over to the accountants, just a thought as all my colleagues would love to be able to split their income with their non working wives, not that I'm suggesting that Belinda isn't "working"


Belinda has a baby in a pram, im not sure id be training horses if i had a baby. But maybe she is & can afford a full time baby sitter. She has horses in Qld too so shes one hell of a busy lady.

[mary]

if FJ held the lead, and Excel Stride held the breeze, Washakie would have poured the pressure on to force FJ to yield. Would have been good for my horse, but i dont think that would have been in the best interests of FJ.

In recent times against this class of horse, FJhas been driven with a sit, so there would also have needed to be a COT which was not given.

IMO it always looks bad when stablemates hand up so so easy, they were running a 58.4 half.

[Mitch]

Belinda has a baby in a pram, im not sure id be training horses if i had a baby. But maybe she is & can afford a full time baby sitter. She has horses in Qld too so shes one hell of a busy lady.

Every time I go to Menangle, including last Tuesday, Belinda is there working her a/hole off gearing up horses and doing all the thankless tasks while Luke & co do their thing on the track. Like many others as Harvey mentioned they work as a team so if its in Luke or Belinda's name who really cares... I don't.

[dizzy]

I'm sure as a mother Belinda works harder then the rest of us (other mothers excepted of course) regardless of her involvement in the horses. IMO the race with the exception of Chariot King looked to be very uncompeditive from start to finish. Seems as I must be the only one who thinks there was a problem with Franco Jamar sticking to Excel Strides back like a limpet in the straight gifting a run to a 50/1 shot from his back into second.

[Lenem]

If it's a partnership (as opposed to a rort) why not register both names as co trainers? I have no reason to doubt that Belinda is a talented horsewoman but what happenned one fine morning that caused all the owners to "transfer" their horses to her care?
Dito with Emma Stewart who "became" a trainer following her partner's disqualification for a drug related offence.

[Lenem]

FJ apparently leaving Team McCarthy.Perhaps someone else not pleased with tactics?

[aussiebreno]

How often does a trainer have FOUR horses in a field and 2 of them are grand circuit horses??

As to the other question, I have absolutely no issue with Belinda being the official trainer. The reality is that any trainer has a team of people working the horses, planning their preps etc. Its not one person who does everything.

No different to many other training regimes - eg. Maree/John Caldow, Greg/Skye Bond, Emma Stewart/Tonkin
From what I gathered it is Mat Rue looking after the training of the QLD team?
So you have horses trained by Luke up to two/three weeks ago, then transferred to Belinda and taken to QLD. Belinda is in Sydney?

[aussiebreno]

Brad I'm no accountant but there are at least two who read this board and could advise accordingly. If Luke derives all the income from the training and driving fees then then they are likely to be subjected to a higher rate of tax then if the income is split with Belinda, if it goes into a business then I have no idea how it works so over to the accountants, just a thought as all my colleagues would love to be able to split their income with their non working wives, not that I'm suggesting that Belinda isn't "working"
I'd say the set up would be either a company or a trust, Belinda and Luke both shareholders/trustees. Any of Lukes income goes into the company/trust income and can be distributed to both of them anyway. Belinda wouldn't need any of her 'own' income for taxation purposes.

[matrightyeh]

yeh something would have to have gone down https://imageshackau.com/sports/131/b/happy.gifhttps://imageshackau.com/sports/133/b/happy.gifhttps://imageshackau.com/sports/138/b/happy.gif
https://imageshackau.com/sports/123/b/happy.gifhttps://imageshackau.com/sports/52/b/happy.gifhttps://imageshackau.com/sports/134/b/happy.gif

[dizzy]

I guess you can tell I don't do my own tax returns Brenno!