WA Pacing Cup - 11/01/2013

[G-Mac]

Race 8 SEW EURODRIVE WA PACING CUP (SKY 1) 8:25 PM M0 Or Better.
RBD. Prizemoney: $400,000 2536 METRES MOBILE START

1 ROCKET REIGN NZ S J Suvaljko Callan Suvaljko C19 M9
2 DASHER VC NZ A L De Campo Chris Lewis C18 M11
3 CAN RETURN FIRE NZ G S Bond Colin Brown C15 M7
4 MYSTA MAGICAL MACH NZT SvilicichKyle Harper C20 M15
5 RUSSLEY RASCAL NZ G S Bond Colin Brown C17 M7
6 FRANCO RENEGADE NZ A G Cortopassi Aldo Cortopassi C11 M6
7 SNEAKYN DOWN UNDER NZ D W Duffy Morgan Woodley C23 M16----------------------------------------------- Second Row --------------------------------------------8 UPPY SON NZ S C Reed Justin Prentice C18 M4
9 LIVINGONTHEINTEREST NZ G E Hall Snr Kim Prentice C12 M4
10 CROMBIE K D Young C14 M7
11 IM THEMIGHTYQUINN NZ G E Hall Snr Gary Hall Jnr C43 M38
12 LOMBO NAVIGATOR A L De Campo Matthew White C16 M8
13 OHOKA DALLAS NZ (Em 1)
14 AUSSIE MADE LOMBO (Em 2)

This looks to be another cracking race for mine:

I like Dasher VC to overturn his 2nd place from last year. He was mowed down by ITMQ last year in a very fast time. Dasher starts from gate 2 as he did last year but I don't see him having to burn the same lead time as last year as he won't have the likes of Raglan, Mr Feelgood, or a Hall runner from gate 1 to contend with for the lead.

ITMQ starts off the back line which isn't a bad thing for him. I can't see him getting a trail into the race in this edition as he did in 2012 and coming off a slower pace Dasher VC might be able to turn around the 1.6m defeat.

Lombo Navigator will most likely grab ITMQ's back into the race late but I don't see this suiting him.

Mysta Magical Mach might end up having to breeze which will take the edge off him. He's tough and strong and will keep finding however.

The journey is too long for Sneakyn Down Under and I can't see him enjoying the last lap.

The Bond runners (Can Return Fire and Russley Rascal)off the front line can fill a hole if they get suitable runs on pace but that's the best case scenario for them I feel.

The one that may cause a boilover at very good odds is Livingontheinterest. It will trail Dasher VC through and probably end up with cover in the moving line right on the speed. Despite last week being run to suit it was still a very good performance and you cannot argue with picket fence form. 7 starts in WA for 7 wins, 6 at GP. It would be rude not to have a bob each way if the price is right.

The draw has taken care of Franco Renegade as he will need to restrain, I would prefer him on pace.

Uppy Son is likely to be 3 or 4 pegs for the duration and finish the race fresh but out of the money.

Crombie is a class act and I wish I owned him but he doesn't seem to be going well enough so far this prep to win from 3sr in this company.

Where my money goes will obviusly depend on what value is on offer. Ignoring that, my numbers are 2, 11, 4, 9

Good luck if you have a go.

[Mighty Atom]

Hi Glen, you could be right with Dasher VC, he has shown after his last couple of preparations that he goes very well fresh but after a few runs he seems to go off. Mysta Magical Mach may be his undoing, if not from him watch Livingontheinterest make a move to tackle the leader if he can get away from the fence.

[littlelenny]

Quinny is so dominant around gloucester Park and the distance of the race will give Jnr time to plan his move, im forgeting about last week as jnr never gave him a chance. I do agree that Quinnys stable mate could bring Dasher VC undone, if it was middle distance i think dasher could cause an upset. After reading how confident the Hall camp is Im expecting him to win easily and thats no disrespect to the other runners but Quinny's record on this track speaks for itself.

[Mighty Atom]

Agree with you Lenny,

Dasher VC is a much better horse when allowed to lead especially around GP. I think if it was a 2100 metre race he could cause an upset racing well when fresh but the Hall camp will have him in their sights all the way. I'm just not sure about ITMQ, his last run was very puzzling, at one stage I thought he had another fibrillation attack. To be honest back in the bad/good old days that run would have copped 12 months but I'm glad he didn't give the horse a gut buster run.

[Big K]

Can't believe MMM has virtually raced non stop since well before the Inter's last year thru to now!!Not so long ago he was off his game and I thought in need of a break but his last few runs have showed he is going as well as ever.His trainer has got most people stumped as to keeping up the longevity of his racing horses and the improvement to most of them!!I think he's a very big chance tonight.

[terror]

That was the quinny we all know and nice team work between the two stable mates

[broncobrad]

Agree with you Lenny,

Dasher VC is a much better horse when allowed to lead especially around GP. I think if it was a 2100 metre race he could cause an upset racing well when fresh but the Hall camp will have him in their sights all the way. I'm just not sure about ITMQ, his last run was very puzzling, at one stage I thought he had another fibrillation attack. To be honest back in the bad/good old days that run would have copped 12 months but I'm glad he didn't give the horse a gut buster run.

G'day Rod, you said it all. In the good old days 12 months for that, today we are lauding him for not having put in a gut-buster. At the end of the day it is the horses welfare that should be paramount and the drive produced fabulous rewards one week later in light of it. Personally I reckon that race last week was at the least 'SUSPECT'.

Last night, even with the beautiful suck into the race, it was good to see IMTQ back on top.

[littlelenny]

We definetly saw the real Quinny last night showing his brilliance around Gloucester Park yet again. I know the opposition wasnt up to his class but he did it quite easily.

Interesting listening to the interviews of Hall snr and jnr they appear still quite cut up by the Eastern states not believing in Quinny. I dont think its that people in the East think Quinny is not a champ its more that he is portrayed as invinsible(which he is at Gloucester Park) and the best we have ever seen, but the point is to get that tag you need to beat the best easily.

When the best get together they are so evenly matched and thats the exciting part in my opinion.

Im glad they have decided to go to Sydney for the interdominion because when you have a horse that good you would want to race the best in Australasia its a no brainer. Win lose or draw it doesnt matter he has already proven himself and going to the eastern states is just what you do for the fans all over Australia who want to see the best horses race each other. Just look at the publicity the Victoria Cup recieved it was awesome the industry was buzzing thats what we need every opportunity we get. Obviously it cant happen for every Grand Circuit race because of the distance factor.

I think we are so fortunate to have champions such as Blackie, Mr Feelgood, Smoken Up, and Quinny just to name a few in the last 10 years. You dont need to win every race to be a champion just look at Mr Feelgoods run in the 2011 Victoria Cup it was one of the best runs i have seen together with Smoken Ups run in the 2012 Victoria Cup.

Looking forward to the 2013 Interdominion even if its format is different it still brings the best together.

[Mighty Atom]

True Lenny, but WA horses will always suffer the tyranny of distance travelling east for the big G1 races because that's where most of them are.
When you are lining up against outstanding horses who are evenly matched and having that extra burden it is always going to be that little more difficult
and that is something that those in the east far to often fail to acknowledge.

[Triple V]

Congrats to Snr & Jnr and connections.
Is there a horse anywhere that could hold him out when he is driven like that?
Can't wait to see him do battle in the Sydney ID.

[little fish]

My opinion is Quinn's real form gauge is his form in the eastern states - absolute top class - but watching him win WA FFA's around a dog track every week going half pace does little for his credibility it is his performances against the best on proper tracks that will get him his kudos.

However I don't think these arrogant eagles supporters really care about competing against the best on a regular basis. Who can blame them when there is so much money around over there for racing against meat and potatoes FFA type opposition.

[Mighty Atom]

My opinion is Quinn's real form gauge is his form in the eastern states - absolute top class - but watching him win WA FFA's around a dog track every week going half pace does little for his credibility it is his performances against the best on proper tracks that will get him his kudos.

However I don't think these arrogant eagles supporters really care about competing against the best on a regular basis. Who can blame them when there is so much money around over there for racing against meat and potatoes FFA type opposition.

Barry, don't know where you get the idea ITMQ is going half pace because if he is I'd love to see him at full speed around a dog track ( I suppose you would classify Globe Derby in the same catergory). If you hadn't noticed ITMQ ran the race some 11 seconds faster with a very fast mile rate ( on a dog track) than either Smoken Up or Sushi Sushi did last night over almost same distance. The difficulty in getting the horse to Sydney and to a lesser degree Melbourne) is something you refuse to acknowledge over there and you expect him to do this continually on a regular basis, which he does. If there is so much money around over here - which there is - why aren't the eastern states horses over here getting a share; I suspect it's got something to do with the distance the same problem ITMQ has but guess what he turns up, you lot don't. Two races over here in a week worth $ 650,000 (big money in anyone's language) and your lot haven't the guts to face up to ITMQ on his home track as G Hall jnr said. Oh, and by the way Gloucester Park is the show place of Australian harness racing, the only true 'ribbon of light' left. Sure, both Menagle and Melton have bigger tracks but they appear to have been built in the middle of a cow paddock and the watering hole in the middle of Melton is something else ( got a fleeting glimpse of it, camera didn't linger on it too long and obviously for good reason, sure it's where the cows come down to drink). Imagine holding these up to the Americans as our show pieces of Australian Harness Racing, good for a laugh I imagine.

[p plater]

Rod, your remark about IMQ going so much quicker (as you say on a dog track) than the other 2 winners last night prompted me to look at how much quicker IMQ was than the visitors at last years Interdominion.

I was surprised to say the least at the outcome.

!st night 1700m....Auckland Reactor 1.53.7
Crombie 1.55.9
Smoken Up 1.53.7
IMQ 1.55.8

2nd night 2100m Raglan 1.55.4
Auck Reactor 1.55.2
S U 1.55.4
IMQ 1.58.0

3rd night 2506m S U 1.56.0
Auck Reactor 1.58.7
Mr Feelgood 1.55.4
IMQ 1.57.5

[Maorisidol]

Thanks for that Bailey,
Funny how a concept of assessing different races on other tracks and the horses performance by times ONLY can backfire in ya face...
Rod, how come Pure Steel, Village Kid, Preux Chevalier came to the eastern states more often than Quinn does or has so far at the peak of his career?
All those horses won over here so many times too...
And Rod, Gloucester Park as Australia's showplace track!!!!!??? It's a lovely setting no doubt but u think Americans would prefer the 800m to Menangle? Come on mate, I know u r a 1 eyed Perth boy but seriously, don't let that blur your vision to say silly things. And worse u r assessing Melton and Menangle by what u see on telly! U ain't never been to either track?
It's about the horses Rod, the future of high quality racing that advances the breed, and that encapsulates a track we have for the Harness Industry in Australia where the 1:50 mark has been broken. Personally as a kid growing up watching trots for the last 45 years the possibility of 1:50 Downunder was never gonna happen and I actually smile, almost laugh at the thought that it has happened, I think it's amazing, but u know if we didn't have that "dustbowl" in the cow paddock as u say, it wouldn't have happened mate.
U can't tell me in your years of wisdom Rod that that's not good for the future advancement of the industry!

[Mighty Atom]

Rod, your remark about IMQ going so much quicker (as you say on a dog track) than the other 2 winners last night prompted me to look at how much quicker IMQ was than the visitors at last years Interdominion.

I was surprised to say the least at the outcome.

!st night 1700m....Auckland Reactor 1.53.7
Crombie 1.55.9
Smoken Up 1.53.7
IMQ 1.55.8

2nd night 2100m Raglan 1.55.4
Auck Reactor 1.55.2
S U 1.55.4
IMQ 1.58.0

3rd night 2506m S U 1.56.0
Auck Reactor 1.58.7
Mr Feelgood 1.55.4
IMQ 1.57.5

Bailey , correct with the times but as we know ITMQ doesn't lead so his times are determined by horse in front. Pacing Cup: 1:56:6 mile rate coming home in 55:8 with ITMQ doing it three wide - over all 11 secs faster than Smoken Up both on 800 metre tracks and SU was flat out.

[Mighty Atom]

Thanks for that Bailey,
Funny how a concept of assessing different races on other tracks and the horses performance by times ONLY can backfire in ya face...
Rod, how come Pure Steel, Village Kid, Preux Chevalier came to the eastern states more often than Quinn does or has so far at the peak of his career?
All those horses won over here so many times too...
And Rod, Gloucester Park as Australia's showplace track!!!!!??? It's a lovely setting no doubt but u think Americans would prefer the 800m to Menangle? Come on mate, I know u r a 1 eyed Perth boy but seriously, don't let that blur your vision to say silly things. And worse u r assessing Melton and Menangle by what u see on telly! U ain't never been to either track?
It's about the horses Rod, the future of high quality racing that advances the breed, and that encapsulates a track we have for the Harness Industry in Australia where the 1:50 mark has been broken. Personally as a kid growing up watching trots for the last 45 years the possibility of 1:50 Downunder was never gonna happen and I actually smile, almost laugh at the thought that it has happened, I think it's amazing, but u know if we didn't have that "dustbowl" in the cow paddock as u say, it wouldn't have happened mate.
U can't tell me in your years of wisdom Rod that that's not good for the future advancement of the industry!

Ash, the last time I looked Americans didn't seem to mind racing on Yonkers Raceway for some fairly important races through the season.

[HaroldParker]

I'm a big fan of Lombo Navigator. I won plenty on him in ID12 and IMO he's the second best horse in WA. He was given no chance on Friday. Clearly the barn were all in on Dasher the way the draw worked out. Lombo went four pegs after 50 yards and that was that. They'll be hoping for better luck in the Fremantle Cup and ID13 heat. If ITMQ is beaten, throw away last week, Lombo Navigator will be the horse that does it.

I'm a Sydneysider, I live 100 yards from Harold Park and I enjoy an evening out at Menangle but Gloucester Park has the best racing in Australia and clearly. Collectively, from a punting perspective, they have the best crop of drivers in the country too.

[littlelenny]

Bailey , correct with the times but as we know ITMQ doesn't lead so his times are determined by horse in front. Pacing Cup: 1:56:6 mile rate coming home in 55:8 with ITMQ doing it three wide - over all 11 secs faster than Smoken Up both on 800 metre tracks and SU was flat out.

Rod 11 sec faster is not really accurate considering they are run at two different tracks at different distances. What we saw on Saturday night from both Smoken Up and Caribbean Blaster was heart stopping stuff IMO it was the race of the weekend.
In regards to the other races it was good to see Sushi back to his best, Mah Sish went super and Excel Stride came back a winner.

With Quinnys win on Friday night it overall was a great weekend of racing, and bring on the Interdominion its going to be a great race just as the Victoria Cup was.

Rod if you really believe Quinny is 11 seconds faster then he'll be unbeatable in the Inter final so jump onto fixed odds and get the $4.00 on offer.

Level playing field in my opinion and all winners this weekend have earnt my respect as winning hopes for the inter. We know from the last time they met in the Victoria Cup that tactics and luck in the run will play a major factor.

[G-Mac]

Ash, the last time I looked Americans didn't seem to mind racing on Yonkers Raceway for some fairly important races through the season.

Yonkers is quite a different track to GP though Rod. I don't know if you've been there but the only half mile track I have seen in Australia to come close to it is (was) Harold Park. About a 200m home straight and steeply cambered bends as opposed to GP's 145m home straight and longer, flatter bends.

As for comparing the runs of Smoken Up and ITMQ, they were both exceptional and highlighted the strengths of both horses.
Smoken up did it at both ends of the race, crossing to lead from gate 7 and setting the pace. He was headed in the straight but fought back to win. A magnificent race it was. I didn't have a bet in the race but it was by far the best thing I saw all weekend.
ITMQ smoked his pipe, took the trail up from his stable mate, and went whoosh with his customary paralysing burst of speed. I have watched many go around that track but have never seen one able to take that bend at that speed. The rest had no chance with him poised to strike. A beautifully balanced athlete he is. An excitement machine.

One is all guts and determination, looking like he has had enough but finding that bit extra to get himself over the line. The other is pure speed and grace.
I love them both for what they are.

[G-Mac]

ITMQ starts off the back line which isn't a bad thing for him. I can't see him getting a trail into the race in this edition as he did in 2012 and coming off a slower pace Dasher VC might be able to turn around the 1.6m defeat.

The one that may cause a boilover at very good odds is Livingontheinterest. It will trail Dasher VC through and probably end up with cover in the moving line right on the speed. Despite last week being run to suit it was still a very good performance and you cannot argue with picket fence form. 7 starts in WA for 7 wins, 6 at GP. It would be rude not to have a bob each way if the price is right.


Of course, I didn't take into account that they are stablemates and Livingontheinterest would move first to give ITMQ a cart home did I? Failure on my behalf, it was as clear as dog's ..... after the race started and I was kicking myself.

I trust K Prentice was taken care of.

[Mighty Atom]

To Bob,Lenny and Glen thanks for the input, all intelligent comments worth reading unlike a certain person who loves putting the boot into ITMQ any chance he can get.

[little fish]

Barry, don't know where you get the idea ITMQ is going half pace because if he is I'd love to see him at full speed around a dog track ( I suppose you would classify Globe Derby in the same catergory). If you hadn't noticed ITMQ ran the race some 11 seconds faster with a very fast mile rate ( on a dog track) than either Smoken Up or Sushi Sushi did last night over almost same distance. The difficulty in getting the horse to Sydney and to a lesser degree Melbourne) is something you refuse to acknowledge over there and you expect him to do this continually on a regular basis, which he does. If there is so much money around over here - which there is - why aren't the eastern states horses over here getting a share; I suspect it's got something to do with the distance the same problem ITMQ has but guess what he turns up, you lot don't. Two races over here in a week worth $ 650,000 (big money in anyone's language) and your lot haven't the guts to face up to ITMQ on his home track as G Hall jnr said. Oh, and by the way Gloucester Park is the show place of Australian harness racing, the only true 'ribbon of light' left. Sure, both Menagle and Melton have bigger tracks but they appear to have been built in the middle of a cow paddock and the watering hole in the middle of Melton is something else ( got a fleeting glimpse of it, camera didn't linger on it too long and obviously for good reason, sure it's where the cows come down to drink). Imagine holding these up to the Americans as our show pieces of Australian Harness Racing, good for a laugh I imagine.

Come on mate he doesn't race regularly in the eastern states - he comes over for the biggest races (which are basically the only races he gets beat in - which is not a coincidence because they are by far the best fields he races against) then goes back to his own backyard and beats up on the same horses on the same track week after week.

Nothing wrong with that we both agree the $$ in WA is sensational for a horse like ITMQ. I'd do the same if I lived in Perth and owned a horse like him.

Bit of a laugh to suggest any of the big guns are scared of taking him on. If I owned one in that league of horse I'd be just as scared taking on Terror To Love, Smoken Up, Carribean Blaster, Sushi Sushi etc, all very formidable opponents on their day too. I'll give you they may be reluctant to travel 3200-3500km to race on a track like Gloucester Park against a horse like ITMQ - bit different to just being scared of ITMQ though. Can't compare Gloucester Park to Melton or Menangle - compare it to Mildura or Echuca maybe a better comparison?

ITMQ is a sensational horse I would love to own him. The issue here is that some people won't hear anyone not lauding him as the greatest in the land - pretty arrogant of the eagles fans to expect the eastern staters to admit such a thing when you consider all of the above. He has nothing to prove unless you want to be calling him the best in the land - Just my opinion!

[dizzy]

And Rod, Gloucester Park as Australia's showplace track!!!!!??? It's a lovely setting no doubt but u think Americans would prefer the 800m to Menangle? Come on mate, I know u r a 1 eyed Perth boy but seriously, don't let that blur your vision to say silly things. And worse u r assessing Melton and Menangle by what u see on telly! U ain't never been to either track?
It's about the horses Rod, the future of high quality racing that advances the breed, and that encapsulates a track we have for the Harness Industry in Australia where the 1:50 mark has been broken. Personally as a kid growing up watching trots for the last 45 years the possibility of 1:50 Downunder was never gonna happen and I actually smile, almost laugh at the thought that it has happened, I think it's amazing, but u know if we didn't have that "dustbowl" in the cow paddock as u say, it wouldn't have happened mate.
U can't tell me in your years of wisdom Rod that that's not good for the future advancement of the industry!

Ash can you explain how an improvement in the track, that is a larger track in this case, equates to an improvement in the breed? Surely an improvement in the breed can only be determined if all other things remain equal, that is track, gig, feed, medication, training regime etc.

How does a sub 1:50 mark for an unfashionably bred gelding on a "dustbowl" mile track outweigh for the future advancement of the industry that same unfashionably bred gelding's outstanding performance to win 4 SA cups (along with many other feature races) on a half mile track does?

[Maorisidol]

Ash can you explain how an improvement in the track, that is a larger track in this case, equates to an improvement in the breed? Surely an improvement in the breed can only be determined if all other things remain equal, that is track, gig, feed, medication, training regime etc.

How does a sub 1:50 mark for an unfashionably bred gelding on a "dustbowl" mile track outweigh for the future advancement of the industry that same unfashionably bred gelding's outstanding performance to win 4 SA cups (along with many other feature races) on a half mile track does?

Hi Dot,
The 4 SA Cup scenario is absolutely as important as the sub 1:50 times.
I was generally meaning the lucky situation we have now that a track like that exists to do very very fast times, like we have not seen in Australia, for ALL horses.
I was not talking about just 1 horse, more the betterment of the industry thru ALL horses that race there and being able to run times they wouldnt have run at Harold Park for example. These days we have CO pacers running miles in sub 1:55 and probably quite lower. If you had of told me that in 1981 i would have said you were on drugs!
In my opinion that has to convert to mares who run better times, can then have their foals get more money at the sales, theres a benefit for the owner of the mare, they can then afford a more expensive sire for her next foal, hopefully that gets even faster and is then worth more again. Its a very simple way of looking at it but all things equal, would you get more money for a horse with 1:58.3 next to its name or 1:53.7?
This is what i mean about betterment for the horses, the industry, more money for everyone.
And of course yes a track is but 1 part of the equation when the gig, feed etc as you mention are also vital.
My point came from the statement from Rod who said "Gloucester Park is the show place of Australian harness racing" and then "Sure, both Menagle and Melton have bigger tracks but they appear to have been built in the middle of a cow paddock and the watering hole in the middle of Melton is something else ( got a fleeting glimpse of it, camera didn't linger on it too long and obviously for good reason, sure it's where the cows come down to drink). Imagine holding these up to the Americans as our show pieces of Australian Harness Racing, good for a laugh I imagine."
Hence my reply about us now having a 1400m track and an extremely fast Melton 900m track in comparison to the Perth track...and the benefits that come to the industry with these faster times. These are more likely to be the "showpieces" of Australia in my opinion.

[dizzy]

So Ash then improved times are actually a result then of the bigger track and not an improvement in the breed ? And you believe the better times equate to higher prices at the sales? So by extension then should our next new track be built in a straight line so that we will run faster time still?

I'll have to disagree with you I think better prices for our stock will not be realised by an artificial reduction in the mile rates of the mares with stock in the sale but by an increase in the numbers of people interested in purchasing stock at the sales. To achieve that we need tracks in populated areas that showcases our industry as an exciting specatacle that appeals to people who in most instances will have no idea of the relevence of a mile rate but can recognise exciting racing. GP does that far better then Menangle. I like Melton but it would have benefited exponetionally if it could have been built much closer to the city.

I think Smoken Ups four SA cups and string of other feature victories over the years, often in stirring duels, advance the future of the industry far more then his sub 1.50 mile ever will.

[Maorisidol]

So Ash then improved times are actually a result then of the bigger track and not an improvement in the breed ? And you believe the better times equate to higher prices at the sales? So by extension then should our next new track be built in a straight line so that we will run faster time still?

I'll have to disagree with you I think better prices for our stock will not be realised by an artificial reduction in the mile rates of the mares with stock in the sale but by an increase in the numbers of people interested in purchasing stock at the sales. To achieve that we need tracks in populated areas that showcases our industry as an exciting specatacle that appeals to people who in most instances will have no idea of the relevence of a mile rate but can recognise exciting racing. GP does that far better then Menangle. I like Melton but it would have benefited exponetionally if it could have been built much closer to the city.

I think Smoken Ups four SA cups and string of other feature victories over the years, often in stirring duels, advance the future of the industry far more then his sub 1.50 mile ever will.

Holy Moses Dot,
U seem to be grabbing onto 1 thing I said as if I had stated that it was the be all and end all to solve the answers to the universe. U also seem to try and put words into my mouth so to speak or assume I am meaning something that I am not blowing it out of all proportion.
Example, Dot says "So Ash then improved times are actually a result then of the bigger track and not an improvement in the breed ?"
No Dot, I did not say that or indeed intend for anyone to get that impression at all. What I have said is that Menangle is good for the industry because some unbelievable times are run there, from the CO horses running times that were inconceivable to me for that grade to run back when they were "beginners" races in 1981 for example, to the other end of horse that is " able" to run sub 1:50 in australia on a 1400m track. That's it that's my opinion.
dot I have not said it is the answer, the only answer or the best answer. So please don't assume that that is my train of thought. I totally agree a track like that is 1 part that plays its part to help advance the industry as a whole.
At no time did I say that times, mile rates or 1400m at Menangle is more important than the concept and excitement of an event like we saw at Globe Derby with Caribbean Blaster and Trigger, so please don't think for me.
I feel u may have initially mistook what I said by seemingly coming in mid conversation in a discussion I was having with Rod, and not read the previous posts from both of us to get the flow of the conversation. If not, then maybe I am going mad!

[little fish]

Field for Fremantle Cup - 11 of the 12 horses are the same - seriously if I were an owner of ITMQ I'd be pissing myself laughing at this.
And if I were the prez of Gloucester Park I'd be shattered about it.

[Danno]

Field for Fremantle Cup - 11 of the 12 horses are the same - seriously if I were an owner of ITMQ I'd be pissing myself laughing at this.
And if I were the prez of Gloucester Park I'd be shattered about it.

G'day Barry,
the prez of Gloucester Park is one time Newcastle Secretary Manager John Burt and I reckon he'll be pretty happy actually, the race looks a near certainty for ITMQ and the people love a winner!!

Extra good horses draw attention to our game and IMTQ is no exception particularly in the west.

From a participants perspective theres nothing worse than going around against something you pretty much know you cant beat, but sometimes its good for the game, and I think with this particular horse that is the case, of course I could be dead wrong too!

cheers,
Dan

[Maorisidol]

Come on mate he doesn't race regularly in the eastern states - he comes over for the biggest races (which are basically the only races he gets beat in - which is not a coincidence because they are by far the best fields he races against) then goes back to his own backyard and beats up on the same horses on the same track week after week.

Nothing wrong with that we both agree the $$ in WA is sensational for a horse like ITMQ. I'd do the same if I lived in Perth and owned a horse like him.

Bit of a laugh to suggest any of the big guns are scared of taking him on. If I owned one in that league of horse I'd be just as scared taking on Terror To Love, Smoken Up, Carribean Blaster, Sushi Sushi etc, all very formidable opponents on their day too. I'll give you they may be reluctant to travel 3200-3500km to race on a track like Gloucester Park against a horse like ITMQ - bit different to just being scared of ITMQ though. Can't compare Gloucester Park to Melton or Menangle - compare it to Mildura or Echuca maybe a better comparison?

ITMQ is a sensational horse I would love to own him. The issue here is that some people won't hear anyone not lauding him as the greatest in the land - pretty arrogant of the eagles fans to expect the eastern staters to admit such a thing when you consider all of the above. He has nothing to prove unless you want to be calling him the best in the land - Just my opinion!


Nice post Barry, so true that "The issue here is that some people won't hear anyone not lauding him as the greatest in the land"
And, "He has nothing to prove unless you want to be calling him the best in the land - Just my opinion!"
And everyone is entitled to their opinion, again like I conversed with Aussiebrenno once where I said its a bit like we have footy teams we are passionate about, we also can have horses we are passionate about, but sometimes like footy, people can be a bit too one eyed and defensive of their champ, to a point where they overrate them a little too much.

[Triple V]

Holy Moses Dot,
U seem to be grabbing onto 1 thing I said as if I had stated that it was the be all and end all to solve the answers to the universe. U also seem to try and put words into my mouth so to speak or assume I am meaning something that I am not blowing it out of all proportion.

[VVV] Welcome to the Club, Ash.

[Toohard]

Two races over here in a week worth $ 650,000 (big money in anyone's language) and your lot haven't the guts to face up to ITMQ on his home track as G Hall jnr said.

Not having the guts to face up to him?

Trying to compare ITMQ and Smoken Up not easy. Different racing styles, different types tracks they have to race on, etc. But if you are going to start talking about 'not having the guts' here's a way of doing it.

1. Watch the replay of the 2012 Vic Cup. ITMQ sat behind the leader whole way. Got out in plenty of time. Caribbean Blaster 3 wide most of the way, wider round last bend.

Watch closely what happens when Caribbean Blaster gets his head in front of ITMQ.

2. Now watch the replay of the 2013 SA Cup. Smoken Up in front running along. Caribbean Blaster 2 wide serving it up to him.

Watch closely what happens when Caribbean Blaster gets his head in front of Smoken Up.

See the difference?

One of them surrenders and gives in, the other ones Smoken Up.

[little fish]

Nice post Barry, so true that "The issue here is that some people won't hear anyone not lauding him as the greatest in the land"
And, "He has nothing to prove unless you want to be calling him the best in the land - Just my opinion!"
And everyone is entitled to their opinion, again like I conversed with Aussiebrenno once where I said its a bit like we have footy teams we are passionate about, we also can have horses we are passionate about, but sometimes like footy, people can be a bit too one eyed and defensive of their champ, to a point where they overrate them a little too much.

I think that's very close to how it is, like one-eyed footy supporters.

Not sure how many of you have lived in Perth - it is an awesome place but also a real fishbowl and they can tend to really pump the tyres up on their footy teams (and horses) to bursting point. Not hard to understand why/how given it's the most isolated city in the world.

Good case in point was Lance jokingly suggesting the great pretender as ITMQ's entrance song - and the over the top defensiveness back from the eagles boys. All a bit of fun but not quite as friendly from the west if you know what I mean.

[little fish]

the prez of Gloucester Park is one time Newcastle Secretary Manager John Burt and I reckon he'll be pretty happy actually, the race looks a near certainty for ITMQ and the people love a winner!!

Each to their own but isn't the 650k there to attract the eastern staters and NZers over?

They could've cut a zero off both races and got the same fields.

[Danno]

Each to their own but isn't the 650k there to attract the eastern staters and NZers over?

They could've cut a zero off both races and got the same fields.

Yes Barry from their point of view I reckon you are on the money, it (the no show from east state horses) probably has something to do with the perception of invincibiltiy of ITMQ around Gloucester Park ? or does anyone know if transport become awkward/unavailable.?

[Mighty Atom]

Ash can you explain how an improvement in the track, that is a larger track in this case, equates to an improvement in the breed? Surely an improvement in the breed can only be determined if all other things remain equal, that is track, gig, feed, medication, training regime etc.

How does a sub 1:50 mark for an unfashionably bred gelding on a "dustbowl" mile track outweigh for the future advancement of the industry that same unfashionably bred gelding's outstanding performance to win 4 SA cups (along with many other feature races) on a half mile track does?

Spot on Dot.

[dizzy]

Each to their own but isn't the 650k there to attract the eastern staters and NZers over?

They could've cut a zero off both races and got the same fields.

The answer would be apparently not to attracting the eastern states. The rigours of travel has been cited by both sides for travel in each direction and legitamately so. What hasn't been mentioned is that its highly likely that the stables on both sides of the country with top class horses are likely to be running bigger stables/businesses then in the past. Frequently its not about just one horse in the stable now, when it was then travelling and staying interstate was easier.

You are right Barry they could have cut the money for the same field and I'm sure they are dissapointed that there are no interstate horses, but what would have been the biggest blow to their marketing would have been ITMQ ending his winning streak at GP the week before. Dan's right, people love a winner and being able to promote ITMQ's winning streak along with big money races was an opportunity lost.

[Maorisidol]

Spot on Dot.

Rodney, u obviously didn't read my reply to Dot from that post of hers, my post was number 26, go have a look...

[Mighty Atom]

Field for Fremantle Cup - 11 of the 12 horses are the same - seriously if I were an owner of ITMQ I'd be pissing myself laughing at this.
And if I were the prez of Gloucester Park I'd be shattered about it.



Yes Barry the same twelve horses but no different from any major G1 race over east, you can virtually guess the field albeit a lot stronger than the Freo Cup. That's what the $650 is for, not only to encourage owners to improve
the quality of racing but to invite eastern state pacers over to make it a true G1 event but I suggest even if it was a million bucks it would be no show very much like the last Inters which attracted about 5 interstate pacers. Unless there is a genuine problem with flight arrangements and in this day and age it's inexcusable that this situation is not much better than back in the eighties ( this is why many WA pacers virtually stayed in the east for extended periods of time), then there is no excuse for not turning up for two Grand Circuit races. With regards to ITMQ dominating over here there is this underlying fear by some in the east that the horse remaining sound could surpass the champ Blacks a Fake's stake earnings to become the world's greatest stakes winning pacer - perish the thought.

[mary]

Quinn draws 8, inside of back row.
Dasher draws the pole.



The barrier draw for the $250,000 Yes Loans Fremantle Cup is:
<!--[if !supportLists]-->1. <!--[endif]-->DASHER VC
<!--[if !supportLists]-->2. <!--[endif]-->LIVINGONTHEINTEREST
<!--[if !supportLists]-->3. <!--[endif]-->LOMBO NAVIGATOR
<!--[if !supportLists]-->4. <!--[endif]-->MYSTA MAGICAL MACH
5. CAN RETURN FIRE
<!--[if !supportLists]-->6. <!--[endif]-->UPPY SON
<!--[if !supportLists]-->7. <!--[endif]-->CROMBIE
2nd Line

8. <!--[endif]-->IM THEMIGHTYQUINN
<!--[if !supportLists]-->9. <!--[endif]-->HOKONUI BEN
<!--[if !supportLists]-->10. <!--[endif]-->SNEAKYN DOWN UNDER
<!--[if !supportLists]-->11. FRANCO RENEGADE
<!--[if !supportLists]-->12. <!--[endif]-->RUSSLEY RASCAL


SON OF FERGIE –1ST EMERGENCY
BAKERANDTHEFATMAN – 2ND EMERGENCY

[mary]

With regards to ITMQ dominating over here there is this underlying fear by some in the east that the horse remaining sound could surpass the champ Blacks a Fake's stake earnings to become the world's greatest stakes winning pacer - perish the thought.
with ITMQ and I am jumping ahead here, in the back of the minds of some in the east there is a tremendous fear that he may end surpassing Blacks a Fake's stakes tally to become the world's highest stake winner - dread the thought.


One things for sure if he does hes getting it easy isn't he. No disrespect to the other horses in WA but they are running for 2nd.

[Mighty Atom]

Good case in point was Lance jokingly suggesting the great pretender as ITMQ's entrance song - and the over the top defensiveness back from the eagles boys. All a bit of fun but not quite as friendly from the west if you know what I mean.

G'Day Barry again,
Yes, and Lance is one of those living in dreaded fear of the possibilty of ITMQ amassing more stake money than his beloved Trigger.
and I would not be surprised if Lance keeps racing poor old SU until he's 12 years old for this sole purpose.

[aussiebreno]

G'Day Barry again,
Yes, and Lance is one of those living in dreaded fear of the possibilty of ITMQ amassing more stake money than his beloved Trigger.
Quinny already has more.

[Mighty Atom]

With regards to ITMQ dominating over here there is this underlying fear by some in the east that the horse remaining sound could surpass the champ Blacks a Fake's stake earnings to become the world's greatest stakes winning pacer - perish the thought.

One things for sure if he does hes getting it easy isn't he. No disrespect to the other horses in WA but they are running for 2nd.

Hi Mary, absolutely true, but there is one way of maybe stopping the horse but no one wants to take up the challenge.

[p plater]

G'Day Barry again,
Yes, and Lance is one of those living in dreaded fear of the possibilty of ITMQ amassing more stake money than his beloved Trigger.

Rod, you must admit IMQ has the luck of the Irish.
Awarded the 2011 after swab irregularity and
Won 2012 after the 2 main opposition smashed each other on the first turn.
But thats racing, take the good luck when you can.

[dizzy]

Hi Dot, absolutely true, but there is one way of maybe stopping the horse but no one wants to take up the challenge.

Hi Rod, that one should be "Hi Mary"

[Mighty Atom]

G'Day Bailey,
No denying that but could you imagine the outcry if it was Quinny returning the irregular swab, we would never have heard the end of it.
I may be wrong but in the Inters I think you will find it was Smoken Up contacting Mr Feelgood. He's building up as an impressive CV as his racing career, Smashing into opposition; running under markers; returning irregular swabs.
Hate to be so harsh.

[Mighty Atom]

Hi Mary and Dot,
Apologise for that. Been in a keyboard frenzy all morning over here think I'll take a break and get my head back together.

[littlelenny]

I think the highest money earner is now Foiled Again from North America with $4,625,984. Quinny at 8 yrs of age has a good chance to go past that and if he does every Aussie will be proud of him.

In regards to Lance racing Smoken Up till hes 12, I think listening to Lances interviews that decision will solely be up to the horse he will tell him when hes ready to join Sokyola in the lush green paddocks of Victoria(or where ever champions retire)and from what we saw in the Victoria Cup and in the S.A Cup hes definetly not ready he still has that unbelievable will to win. I think Lance would be more driven by reading Paul's post about the joy and excitement that Smoken up brings to his son and all his other fans.

Rod no disrespect intended but Did Lance steal your pocket money in a past life?

[little fish]

I could be wrong here but take Quin out and are these monster dollar WA fields much stronger than a mid range Vic country cup race? Bendigo was definitely a stronger race than WA and for 1/8th the dollars.

Add that up - possible richest pacer on the planet - winning big bucks repeatedly against relatively poor fields - gets beat regularly in his biggest tests away from home - invincible against the poorer fields back home where he has earned most of his riches.

I thought last year's inter dominion was a bit of a joke. Tried to get into it but what do you do when it's run at midnight est, on a relic of a track that many horses would struggle to get round, and half the gun pacers in the land aren't even running in it. I would be happy if it never went back to WA again until they build a decent track over there.

3200km - outdated track that your horse will struggle to get around - formidable local who takes the corners like a greyhound - suitable races at home to contest. Not hard to do the maths.

[G-Mac]

With regards to ITMQ dominating over here there is this underlying fear by some in the east that the horse remaining sound could surpass the champ Blacks a Fake's stake earnings to become the world's greatest stakes winning pacer - perish the thought.

Who told you this Rod? Can you name any trainers or owners with this fear?
It's the first I have heard of it.
Do you speak with many trainers and owners over east?

As for inviting horses over. They will need to reschedule the series if that is the case.

[p plater]

G'Day Bailey,
No denying that but could you imagine the outcry if it was Quinny returning the irregular swab, we would never have heard the end of it.
I may be wrong but in the Inters I think you will find it was Smoken Up contacting Mr Feelgood. He's building up as an impressive CV as his racing career, Smashing into opposition; running under markers; returning irregular swabs.
Hate to be so harsh.

Disappointing Rod, you had to throw mud like that on a great horse, it appears you can't help yourself.

[aussiebreno]

Disappointing Rod, you had to throw mud like that on a great horse, it appears you can't help yourself.
So its not true he ran under markers pegs and got an irregular swab? :s

[clumsy]

I enjoy watching both pacers ITMQ for what he dose in WA and SU for what he can do to the opposition over this side. I would hate for petty jealousy to spoil the pleasure of watching and barracking for these two great horses. I also think that when ITMQ moves away from home he misses the training,especially jogging, on the heavy sand track pulling the heavy jog cart.

[Maorisidol]

I could be wrong here but take Quin out and are these monster dollar WA fields much stronger than a mid range Vic country cup race? Bendigo was definitely a stronger race than WA and for 1/8th the dollars.

Add that up - possible richest pacer on the planet - winning big bucks repeatedly against relatively poor fields - gets beat regularly in his biggest tests away from home - invincible against the poorer fields back home where he has earned most of his riches.

I thought last year's inter dominion was a bit of a joke. Tried to get into it but what do you do when it's run at midnight est, on a relic of a track that many horses would struggle to get round, and half the gun pacers in the land aren't even running in it. I would be happy if it never went back to WA again until they build a decent track over there.

3200km - outdated track that your horse will struggle to get around - formidable local who takes the corners like a greyhound - suitable races at home to contest. Not hard to do the maths.

So true Barry.
You are not wrong at all, i have also come to that conclusion, pretty easy really. Take off the NZ ID prizemoney he was "given" and give it to the actual winner of that race,
convert most of his WA Cup prizemoney and Fremantle Cup money which is huge and the West Australian Pacing Championships oh sorry, the Australian Pacing Championships and replace all that coin for a regular Saturday night GP free for all money and you now have a real value of his stakes.
Now before the Quinn fan club jump down my throat, consider his competition this weekend...in the ID this year Quinn is equal favorite, then there are 20 horses in that betting market that come before you get to a Perth horse! So its a given that he wins this weekend and any weekend in Perth.

If i owned him i would be giggling all the way to the bank. He is master of that track, its a shame that the Perth ID was a bit of a no race with Trigger not taking part essentially and the other heat winners Reactor and Feelgood running totally out of character, in fact Feelgood undertook a vets exam after the race it was so poor.
In feelgoods heat the week before over same distance he ran the race 3 seconds quicker than the final, so the ability was there, but had a bad day on Final night. A shame that the 3 horses that could finally challenge Quinn on his hometrack with real competition didnt eventuate. Would have been great to see.
But thats racing folks...

[Mighty Atom]

I enjoy watching both pacers ITMQ for what he dose in WA and SU for what he can do to the opposition over this side. I would hate for petty jealousy to spoil the pleasure of watching and barracking for these two great horses. I also think that when ITMQ moves away from home he misses the training,especially jogging, on the heavy sand track pulling the heavy jog cart.

Hi Greg, one word - sensical

[Triple V]

Every other consideration & calculation aside, I just love ITMQ for his absolutely blazing high speed. If there's a bigger & better & more effective weapon to be used in a horse race than that which he & Jnr use so effectively...I'm yet to see it.

[Mighty Atom]

So true Barry.
You are not wrong at all, i have also come to that conclusion, pretty easy really. Take off the NZ ID prizemoney he was "given" and give it to the actual winner of that race,
convert most of his WA Cup prizemoney and Fremantle Cup money which is huge and the West Australian Pacing Championships oh sorry, the Australian Pacing Championships and replace all that coin for a regular Saturday night GP free for all money and you now have a real value of his stakes.
Now before the Quinn fan club jump down my throat, consider his competition this weekend...in the ID this year Quinn is equal favorite, then there are 20 horses in that betting market that come before you get to a Perth horse! So its a given that he wins this weekend and any weekend in Perth.

If i owned him i would be giggling all the way to the bank. He is master of that track, its a shame that the Perth ID was a bit of a no race with Trigger not taking part essentially and the other heat winners Reactor and Feelgood running totally out of character, in fact Feelgood undertook a vets exam after the race it was so poor.
In feelgoods heat the week before over same distance he ran the race 3 seconds quicker than the final, so the ability was there, but had a bad day on Final night. A shame that the 3 horses that could finally challenge Quinn on his hometrack with real competition didnt eventuate. Would have been great to see.
But thats racing folks...

It's because of this continual one eyed eastern states parochialism that I have to continually reply in negative overtones to uphold WA harness racing, WA horses, Gloucester Park etc
Get these facts into your head. ( all from WA )
1. Northerly - second highest stakes earner in Aust thoroughbred racing
2. I'm themightyquinn - second highest stakes earner in Australian harness racing
3. Miata - second highest stakes earner in Australian greyhound racing
So how's that for defying your eastern states logic, just goes to show that WA punches way above it's weight.

[clumsy]

Ash
You want to put down the horse because he comes from WA, which sees him racing for the best of prize money. You will never know how good he may have been if he had of been a NSW horse racing out of the McCarthy stable. I am sure he would have been one of the best horses in the eastern states.

[Triple V]

Unfortunately that has too often been the case Ron. Both WA & TAS have been sold short for a long time.

[G-Mac]

Every other consideration & calculation aside, I just love ITMQ for his absolutely blazing high speed. If there's a bigger & better & more effective weapon to be used in a horse race than that which he & Jnr use so effectively...I'm yet to see it.

Sensational isn't it?
As I said to a mate over there a little while ago, he has re-defined 'normal' on that track. Only the really special ones do that.

[Maorisidol]

It's because of this continual one eyed eastern states parochialism that I have to continually reply in negative overtones to uphold WA harness racing, WA horses, Gloucester Park etc
Get these facts into your head. ( all from WA )
1. Northerly - second highest stakes earner in Aust thoroughbred racing
2. I'm themightyquinn - second highest stakes earner in Australian harness racing
3. Miata - second highest stakes earner in Australian greyhound racing
So how's that for defying your eastern states logic, just goes to show that WA punches way above it's weight.
Rod,
i havent bagged WA Harness in general at all, its obviously very strong and very financial, excellent.
As for Northerley, legend, trained by Fred Kersley from memory, he won his races emphatically and proved to be the best horse on the day so many times, touched up Sunline no worries.
I am NOT anti WA horses or WA anything. As i said on the SA Cup thread " its a shame other people cant simply assess a race or horses performance based on the physical facts and mathematics of a horses skill speed and stamina". This is how i assess Quinn against the rest of australias top horses, i dont care if he lives in Perth, Melbourne or wherever.
If Blacks a Fake raced in Darwin for huge prizemoney (yes i know theres no track there...) and hardly ever was challenged by Feelgood Trigger Quinn Elsu whoever, i would simply ask the same questions as i ask of Quinn. He is often lauded as Australia best pacer, and i simply challenge that, my proof of that was the Vic Cup, he had every chance, got to the lead, couldnt do it against those guys when not at home on his little track where he is near unbeatable (if driven well and nothing goes wrong).
Look hes obviously an extremely good horse, would love to own him, of course, but heres the thing Rod...for me Australias BEST HORSE is no sit sprinter.
Pure Steel, now theres a great horse, loved watching him race at Moonee Valley and when i compare him to Quinn for me Steelo wins every time, guts, stamina, never give in attitude. Now as i asked you somewhere in some thread why cant Quinn be here AS MUCH AS PURE STEEL WAS??? He travelled ok he beat all horses no problem over here all the time, so...........why cant Quinn?
Answer is all horses are different, some tougher than others, owned by different people, so different ideas on where and when to race.
As admitted by Jnr WA Cup night on Sky Racing, words to the effect of "we 100% know now not to use him up at the start" referring to Vic Cup.
This is Australias BEST horse? No, hes Australias best sit-sprinter who needs everything to go right for him.
Steelo didnt have that
Preux Chevalier didnt have that
Trigger certainly doesnt have that,
Feelgood didnt have that,
Blackie certainly didnt have that.
Does that make any sense Rod? I know hes a very very good horse, no doubt....but...
So im assessing him on these things that are facts, nothing else, nothing to do with Perth bashing at all Rod.

[Mighty Atom]

Every other consideration & calculation aside, I just love ITMQ for his absolutely blazing high speed. If there's a bigger & better & more effective weapon to be used in a horse race than that which he & Jnr use so effectively...I'm yet to see it.

Hi Jaimie,
Always look forward to reading your posts and you're the only one on the forum I would avoid in a debate - I'd be history.
Sounds like a bit of sucking up ........ not meant to be - just intelligent debate.

[Maorisidol]

Ash
You want to put down the horse because he comes from WA, which sees him racing for the best of prize money. You will never know how good he may have been if he had of been a NSW horse racing out of the McCarthy stable. I am sure he would have been one of the best horses in the eastern states.

Hi Greg,
Pls see my post number 61 which explains i am not anti WA...

Re Quinn at Menangle, i think the long straight would be his worst enemy. Unless he is saved to the last 100-200m which would be hard to achieve all the time, when exposed too early i think he would be found wanting at the post.
Just my opinion.
watch this... http://www.trotstv.com.au/?mc=ME261111&rn=8 2011 Miracle Mile
Karloo Mick was level with Quinn at the top of the Menangle straight and beat him home...???????????

[Triple V]

Sensational isn't it?
As I said to a mate over there a little while ago, he has re-defined 'normal' on that track. Only the really special ones do that.

[VVV] G'day Glen,
I've always been really taken by that tip to the outside and explode sort of speed that you see now and again.
Another horse that comes to mind that had it was Chandon. There's horse in the US that has it too...Hurrikane Kingcole. He'd be a current season 4yo now, it has been a while since I've seen a faster horse point to point & there is /was a Jate Lobell horse standing stud in VIC I think, On The Attack...and he had it too, maniac high speed.

[aussiebreno]

Rod,
i havent bagged WA Harness in general at all, its obviously very strong and very financial, excellent.
As for Northerley, legend, trained by Fred Kersley from memory, he won his races emphatically and proved to be the best horse on the day so many times, touched up Sunline no worries.
I am NOT anti WA horses or WA anything. As i said on the SA Cup thread " its a shame other people cant simply assess a race or horses performance based on the physical facts and mathematics of a horses skill speed and stamina". This is how i assess Quinn against the rest of australias top horses, i dont care if he lives in Perth, Melbourne or wherever.
If Blacks a Fake raced in Darwin for huge prizemoney (yes i know theres no track there...) and hardly ever was challenged by Feelgood Trigger Quinn Elsu whoever, i would simply ask the same questions as i ask of Quinn. He is often lauded as Australia best pacer, and i simply challenge that, my proof of that was the Vic Cup, he had every chance, got to the lead, couldnt do it against those guys when not at home on his little track where he is near unbeatable (if driven well and nothing goes wrong). Ignore the fastest ever lead time...
Look hes obviously an extremely good horse, would love to own him, of course, but heres the thing Rod...for me Australias BEST HORSE is no sit sprinter.
Pure Steel, now theres a great horse, loved watching him race at Moonee Valley and when i compare him to Quinn for me Steelo wins every time, guts, stamina, never give in attitude. Now as i asked you somewhere in some thread why cant Quinn be here AS MUCH AS PURE STEEL WAS??? He travelled ok he beat all horses no problem over here all the time, so...........why cant Quinn?
Answer is all horses are different, some tougher than others, owned by different people, so different ideas on where and when to race.
As admitted by Jnr WA Cup night on Sky Racing, words to the effect of "we 100% know now not to use him up at the start" referring to Vic Cup.
This is Australias BEST horse? No, hes Australias best sit-sprinter who needs everything to go right for him. So if Smoken Up drew barrier one, gets crossed at the start and they go slow, meaning its a sprint home and Trigger can't sprint with them...does that he means he needs things to go right for him as well?
Steelo didnt have that
Preux Chevalier didnt have that
Trigger certainly doesnt have that,
Feelgood didnt have that, Yes he did? Biggest victory of his Aust career was sit sprint. ITMQ would be just as tough as him, but when he has the best sprint play to your strenghts.
Blackie certainly didnt have that. Didn't have the same speed either.
Does that make any sense Rod? I know hes a very very good horse, no doubt....but...
So im assessing him on these things that are facts, nothing else, nothing to do with Perth bashing at all Rod.
So because you have a personal preference for one style over another, it means ITMQ can't be the best.
I have a preference for midfielders rather than forwards who do no work and get the ball kicked to them, doesn't mean Wayne Carey wasn't the best footy player when he played. :)

[G-Mac]

[VVV] G'day Glen,
I've always been really taken by that tip to the outside and explode sort of speed that you see now and again.
Another horse that comes to mind that had it was Chandon. There's horse in the US that has it too...Hurrikane Kingcole. He'd be a current season 4yo now, it has been a while since I've seen a faster horse point to point & there is /was a Jate Lobell horse standing stud in VIC I think, On The Attack...and he had it too, maniac high speed.

There have been many sit sprinters in WA that hit their mark early because the track just isn't suitable for that. You can't get back in the last three and expect to go 3 and 4 wide on the home turn at GP and expect to round them up in FFA company. So they ended up being shifted off to the US. A beautiful chestnut called The Ice Man springs to mind. Cost me a fortune but I kept backing him because he was so exciting. ITMQ has the burst to let the rest do the work and smash them on that track.

[Triple V]

Looking forward to seeing him go around in the ID. Driven differently at the start I think he would have won the most recent Miracle Mile @ Menangle.

[p plater]

Looking forward to seeing him go around in the ID. Driven differently at the start I think he would have won the most recent Miracle Mile @ Menangle.

Lets use the same "if only"
If Smoken up didn't break in the ID final, I don't think IMQ could have given him that much start.

[Big K]

Hi Greg,
Pls see my post number 61 which explains i am not anti WA...

Re Quinn at Menangle, i think the long straight would be his worst enemy. Unless he is saved to the last 100-200m which would be hard to achieve all the time, when exposed too early i think he would be found wanting at the post.
Just my opinion.
watch this... http://www.trotstv.com.au/?mc=ME261111&rn=8 2011 Miracle Mile
Karloo Mick was level with Quinn at the top of the Menangle straight and beat him home...???????????

Hi Ash
have read most of your posts regarding ITMQ and Im starting to think how you can sleep at night.This horse is a big problem for you.
I dont think you can accept what he has achieved.Im not going to speak for him because his record does that.
Its funny that when the great horses came over for the Inters last year and in the Final..when the big money was there..they just weren't right.I see you offering excuses..yet when Quinnie travels and races in the big races and doesn't win you attack his credibility as a champion horse.I havent seen anywhere where you have said..gee I wonder if he was at the top of his game...perhaps he was down just a tad.No just straight out the horse is no good.It is this that taints all your posts for me.And the general put down of our other good WA horses.

[little fish]

It's because of this continual one eyed eastern states parochialism that I have to continually reply in negative overtones to uphold WA harness racing, WA horses, Gloucester Park etc
Get these facts into your head. ( all from WA )
1. Northerly - second highest stakes earner in Aust thoroughbred racing
2. I'm themightyquinn - second highest stakes earner in Australian harness racing
3. Miata - second highest stakes earner in Australian greyhound racing
So how's that for defying your eastern states logic, just goes to show that WA punches way above it's weight.

Don't you dare compare ITMQ to Northerly! - Northerly won most of his coin against the very best on the biggest stages. Northerly out and out gun, proven champion of his time against anything around, including Europe's horse of the year.

[Maorisidol]

Hi Ash
have read most of your posts regarding ITMQ and Im starting to think how you can sleep at night.This horse is a big problem for you.
I dont think you can accept what he has achieved.Im not going to speak for him because his record does that.
Its funny that when the great horses came over for the Inters last year and in the Final..when the big money was there..they just weren't right.I see you offering excuses..yet when Quinnie travels and races in the big races and doesn't win you attack his credibility as a champion horse.I havent seen anywhere where you have said..gee I wonder if he was at the top of his game...perhaps he was down just a tad.No just straight out the horse is no good.It is this that taints all your posts for me.And the general put down of our other good WA horses.

Crikey, you said you have read "most" of my posts, well you need to read post 61 again.
and then show me where i have said the horse is "no good". for goodness sake i complimented the horse, i said i would love to own him, what more do you want.
My only question is to anyone saying he is Australias BEST PACER.
In my opinion he is not, that doesnt mean he isnt good. For me, not you, for me hes not the best, simple, its my opinion and i give reasons and examples comparing his work over the years to a WA legend who i have the utmost respect for, Pure Steel.
As for the general "put down" of other good WA horses again i am using them in comparison to the BEST in Australia. Again as mentioned after Quinn as fav for this years ID, there are 20 horses before you get to the next WA horse. What does that statistic say of the quality IN COMPARISON to the other 20 horses? Its just maths guys, im not the bad guy, i just talk about stats and thats that. The 20th horse in Australia is awesome, so is Mysta Magical Mach,id love to own him too, but this is my point where Quinn is lauded over for being Australian champ when is not racing against the top 20 over there at GP. And unlike Steelo and other WA champs he doesnt seem to get here as much as them and beat up on the Eastern states horses ENOUGH to grant him top dog.
Anyway you have also proved that as a passionate Perth boy you too simply hear me "putting him down and saying he is no good" and not acknowledge my fairly reasonable assessments of his performances based on numbers that i feel support my opinion. So its a mute point trying to debate something with people who lose a bit of logic in the argument thru 1 eyed blindedness.

[Maorisidol]

So because you have a personal preference for one style over another, it means ITMQ can't be the best.
I have a preference for midfielders rather than forwards who do no work and get the ball kicked to them, doesn't mean Wayne Carey wasn't the best footy player when he played. :)

from Brennos reply to me..."Feelgood didnt have that, Yes he did? Biggest victory of his Aust career was sit sprint. ITMQ would be just as tough as him, but when he has the best sprint play to your strenghts.

ITMQ just as tough as Feelgood? Cranbourne Cup 2011 http://media.harness.org.au/vic/CRC10121101.wmv

[broncobrad]

There is an arguement here that says IMTQ has been the best placed horse in harness racing history by his connections. Bottom line for any trainer is to place your horse to the best advantage possible and Gary Hall Snr has proven to be a master in this case.

[Maorisidol]

There is an arguement here that says IMTQ has been the best placed horse in harness racing history by his connections. Bottom line for any trainer is to place your horse to the best advantage possible and Gary Hall Snr has proven to be a master in this case.
I cannot disagree with you Brad.

[Mighty Atom]

Don't you dare compare ITMQ to Northerly! - Northerly won most of his coin against the very best on the biggest stages. Northerly out and out gun, proven champion of his time against anything around, including Europe's horse of the year.

I didn't think you would need a decipher to interpret something I was saying which to most would be the bleeding obvious but obviously you do.
I was pointing out that WA horses and greyhound have been in the top two stake earners in each of their racing codes and it takes a high class performer to achieve that.
Pretty straight forward I would have thought.

[p plater]

What a shame "Cane Smoke" didn't race in WA

[Triple V]

...or what about Tony Turnbull's old mate...Woody One? He had so many starts that in the end he used to drive himself to the track and gear himself up and wait for Tony to arrive.

[Toohard]

Hi Greg, one word - sensical

Hey Rod

Don't know that SENSICAL is a real word but guess you are trying to say opposite of non-sensical.

So would it be non-sensical or sensical to plaster your ill informed, inaccurate garbage over someone elses fan site?

Would reek of jealousy and envy to me. What would you call it Rod? Shown your true colours there you have.

Don't post ya crap on other peoples hard work. This one a forum Rod. Post ya crap on here so we can all see what you are made of.

Who knows? Maybe one day you might say something 'sensical'

[p plater]

Paul, don't tell me Rod is a Smoken Up facebook fan!!!!!!!!!!

[Toohard]

Paul, don't tell me Rod is a Smoken Up facebook fan!!!!!!!!!!

A closet one I reckon Bailey!!

[Mighty Atom]

Hey Rod

Don't know that SENSICAL is a real word but guess you are trying to say opposite of non-sensical.

So would it be non-sensical or sensical to plaster your ill informed, inaccurate garbage over someone elses fan site?

Would reek of jealousy and envy to me. What would you call it Rod? Shown your true colours there you have.

Don't post ya crap on other peoples hard work. This one a forum Rod. Post ya crap on here so we can all see what you are made of.

Who knows? Maybe one day you might say something 'sensical'

Ignoramus.

Google dictionary: sensical - that makes sense, showing internal logic, sensible

[Toohard]

Ignoramus.

Google dictionary: sensical - that makes sense, showing internal logic, sensible

Google dictionary!!! FFS I rest my case...


Google dictionary: sensical - that makes sense, showing internal logic, sensible Counts you out then !!

No comments about the other crap you pasted on website?? Didn't think so... sit behind someone with cushy run and drop out...

[p plater]

Try this one http://oxforddictionaries.com/words/the-oxford-english-dictionary

[Toohard]

Not in there. Surprise Surprise!

How'd he go in the test on the left hand side of that page?

[p plater]

Maybe this one http://www.merriam-webster.com/

[Toohard]

:D

[Mighty Atom]

So true Barry.
You are not wrong at all, i have also come to that conclusion, pretty easy really. Take off the NZ ID prizemoney he was "given" and give it to the actual winner of that race,
convert most of his WA Cup prizemoney and Fremantle Cup money which is huge and the West Australian Pacing Championships oh sorry, the Australian Pacing Championships and replace all that coin for a regular Saturday night GP free for all money and you now have a real value of his stakes.
Now before the Quinn fan club jump down my throat, consider his competition this weekend...in the ID this year Quinn is equal favorite, then there are 20 horses in that betting market that come before you get to a Perth horse! So its a given that he wins this weekend and any weekend in Perth.

If i owned him i would be giggling all the way to the bank. He is master of that track, its a shame that the Perth ID was a bit of a no race with Trigger not taking part essentially and the other heat winners Reactor and Feelgood running totally out of character, in fact Feelgood undertook a vets exam after the race it was so poor.
In feelgoods heat the week before over same distance he ran the race 3 seconds quicker than the final, so the ability was there, but had a bad day on Final night. A shame that the 3 horses that could finally challenge Quinn on his hometrack with real competition didnt eventuate. Would have been great to see.
But thats racing folks...

Take off the NZ ID prize money he was "given" and give it to the actual winner of that race.
Here's the cold hard facts : Inter Dominions - Australasia's greatest harness racing event I'm Themightyquinn 2 .........Smoken Up 0
This is what the honour roll will show and if there is one thing I would want to erase is the ignominious wording 1 Smoken Up disqualified for irregular swab.
You must accept the fact that no matter how much you dislike it this is what the records will show and I'm not going to make any more comments except for one because I'm sure fellow forum members are tired of reading them.

[p plater]

Oh well, it looks like Rod has more luck on Smoken Up's facebook

[Toohard]

And still no comments about what he posted Smoken Up facebook. Maybe he thinks it was sensical to do so....

[Mighty Atom]

:D

Not knowing that the Smoken Up facebook page was your's I'm sorry if it offended you but there was a derogatory remark made about ITMQ and I don't care whose facebook page it is those type of remarks will not go unanswered. You should tell your fellow SU lovers if they are commenting not to denigrate other horses.

[Toohard]

Not mine. Absolutely nothing to do with me. But I will remind everyone that censor Mighty Atom is on the look out for anything sensical and is very touchy about ITMQ. Maybe you should start with Google dictionary?

[Mighty Atom]

Is it not well past your bedtime over there, if this is all you have to do is sit up all night on the keyboard I suggest you get a life.

[Toohard]

Is it not well past your bedtime over there, if this is all you have to do is sit up all night on the keyboard I suggest you get a life.

Still working. Your excuse? Silly me...censoring websites....

[Toohard]

Ignoramus.

Google dictionary: sensical - that makes sense, showing internal logic, sensible

No retraction I see. Live by Google dictionary and I need to get a life???

[Mighty Atom]

No retraction I see. Live by Google dictionary and I need to get a life???

It has obviously touched a raw nerve hence the need for two posts.

[aussiebreno]

It appears the Smoken Up fans are keen to do a lot of talking eg 'Great Pretender' and this website, but they aren't prepared to put their money where their mouth is by travelling to WA or betting on him.
https://www.tab.com.au/#!/nsw/racing/fixedodds/Harness/2013-INTER-DOMINION

Who wants a head to head bet. First past the post in the Inter final (as long as both start in the heat)?

[broncobrad]

It appears the Smoken Up fans are keen to do a lot of talking eg 'Great Pretender' and this website, but they aren't prepared to put their money where their mouth is by travelling to WA or betting on him.
https://www.tab.com.au/#!/nsw/racing/fixedodds/Harness/2013-INTER-DOMINION

Who wants a head to head bet. First past the post in the Inter final (as long as both start in the heat)?

Some of us Brendan can simply 'just appreciate' both of these horses for who they are and what they have both achieved, without getting into some stupid slanging match which is nothing more than an endeavor of conjecture...everyones got an opinion but whose got the conclusive answer. Nobody. Because there is no answer. Unless these two horses competed in the same races, against the same horses, on the same track over varying distances for their whole careers could someone definitively say one was better than the other. So the arguement really is no arguement at all.

I have always found the best way to shut someone up or put an end to an arguement is to challenge them with a financial ultimatum. Inevitably in most cases the person most unsure usually backs out of the topic. There are too many variables in a race with barrier positions, racing patterns, pace and interference playing too much of a role in an Inter final to bet with any confidence on either of these horses at this stage. And it will probably not slow the arguements down either because of any of those factors just mentioned. In any case, at this stage Terror To Love is my early pick. The biggest reason being his owner said after his last NZ campaign he would not be tempted to keep him up for the Vic Cup, putting him in the paddock and putting the horse first. (If) he is there on Finals afternoon, he is going to be ready to rock!

[aussiebreno]

Some of us Brendan can simply 'just appreciate' both of these horses for who they are and what they have both achieved, without getting into some stupid slanging match which is nothing more than an endeavor of conjecture...everyones got an opinion but whose got the conclusive answer. Nobody. Because there is no answer. Unless these two horses competed in the same races, against the same horses, on the same track over varying distances for their whole careers could someone definitively say one was better than the other. So the arguement really is no arguement at all.

I have always found the best way to shut someone up or put an end to an arguement is to challenge them with a financial ultimatum. Inevitably in most cases the person most unsure usually backs out of the topic. There are too many variables in a race with barrier positions, racing patterns, pace and interference playing too much of a role in an Inter final to bet with any confidence on either of these horses at this stage. And it will probably not slow the arguements down either because of any of those factors just mentioned. In any case, at this stage Terror To Love is my early pick. The biggest reason being his owner said after his last NZ campaign he would not be tempted to keep him up for the Vic Cup, putting him in the paddock and putting the horse first. (If) he is there on Finals afternoon, he is going to be ready to rock!
Exactly, which is why I put the bet up - because we can all argue until the cows come home but we aren't really getting anywhere and opinions aren't changing.

[little fish]

Ha ha just logged on to discover more banter than this forum has had in last 12 months. Fantastic passion lads.

I will never knock ITMQ as a horse - he is a great horse and I'd love to own him. You can't blame him for how the NZ inter was given to him, nor can you blame him for the substandard but rich races he wins easily in WA.

I personally think at both their best Smoken Up is/was the better horse - think he proved that in the NZ inter dominion (don't care what anyone says SU won that race), in the miracle mile, and in the victoria cup last year. The WA ID result doesn't count around that pokey little track. That's just my opinion. And I do think ITMQ's $$ are grossly inflated over what they would've been had the eagles boys not bought him back in the day and instead he'd run his whole career in the east. Once again just my opinion. I don't believe that is knocking ITMQ to have those opinions.

[aussiebreno]

Ha ha just logged on to discover more banter than this forum has had in last 12 months. Fantastic passion lads.

I will never knock ITMQ as a horse - he is a great horse and I'd love to own him. You can't blame him for how the NZ inter was given to him, nor can you blame him for the substandard but rich races he wins easily in WA.

I personally think at both their best Smoken Up is/was the better horse - think he proved that in the NZ inter dominion (don't care what anyone says SU won that race), in the miracle mile, and in the victoria cup last year. The WA ID result doesn't count around that pokey little track. That's just my opinion. And I do think ITMQ's $$ are grossly inflated over what they would've been had the eagles boys not bought him back in the day and instead he'd run his whole career in the east. Once again just my opinion. I don't believe that is knocking ITMQ to have those opinions.
He was a Kiwi?

[broncobrad]

Hey Brenno...just read this article, looks like TTL is back today...might be able to start building a bank for March (apparently hes approx $1.50 today)

http://www.harnesslink.com/www/Article.cgi?ID=103092

[Toohard]

It appears the Smoken Up fans are keen to do a lot of talking eg 'Great Pretender' and this website, but they aren't prepared to put their money where their mouth is by travelling to WA or betting on him.
https://www.tab.com.au/#!/nsw/racing/fixedodds/Harness/2013-INTER-DOMINION

Who wants a head to head bet. First past the post in the Inter final (as long as both start in the heat)?

Not a gambling man Breeno but a case of your favourite lager vs a case of mine? Free beers not gambling is it?

Probably posting on wrong thread but correct me if I'm wrong. Last I heard ITMQ coming over for Hunter Cup? Surely he doesn't go back to Perth for the heat of inter? And then back to Sydney for final? So reading the conditions he can go to Sydney for supplementary heat if runs in Hunter Cup? Same with Sushi if he runs in Hunter Cup (in NZ when nominated). And same for any other NZ or interstate horse that runs in Hunter Cup. If so, supplementary heat going to be a beauty!!

You know when the next bun fight starts? When they both run 4th in their heats and both vying for the wildcard!!

[G-Mac]

[QUOTE=Toohard;24958] Last I heard ITMQ coming over for Hunter Cup? [QUOTE]

My understanding of that is it was G Hall Snr thinking out loud when talking to Adam Hamilton after ITMQ ran 4th a couple of weeks ago. He was saying how it is easier to get to Melbourne than Sydney and therefore he was thinking that maybe the Hunter Cup would be his target instead. Jnr and a few of the connections got a bit excited last Friday and let slip that they are coming to Sydney.

[Triple V]

[VVV] Hey Dot...seriously, all this tension and pent up emotion.Why don't you just get it over with and ring me and ask me out to dinner? We could even go for a drive down to that really nice Gelato place in Concord for afters.

[Mighty Atom]

You know him better than I do Dot.

[dizzy]

[VVV] Hey Dot...seriously, all this tension and pent up emotion.Why don't you just get it over with and ring me and ask me out to dinner? We could even go for a drive down to that really nice Gelato place in Concord for afters.

Sorry VVV I only date men with high intellects and intact genitalia. That way the dinner conversation is stimulating and when the time comes for "afters" so much more satisfying.

[broncobrad]

Hey Brenno...just read this article, looks like TTL is back today...might be able to start building a bank for March (apparently hes approx $1.50 today)

http://www.harnesslink.com/www/Article.cgi?ID=103092

Just for a change of pace, before either blood or seminal and vaginal fluids are sprayed all over our screens and hurting all of our eyes (as entertaining as it is guys, maybe you two should pool your money and hire a 'thread' for the night)... just for a change of pace, did anybody catch how impressively my pick for the Inter, Terror To Love went at Ascot today? That $1.50 price today was stealing money and today proves he is going to be one fit, happy and an undeniable chance of collecting some Interdom glory against a lot of horses who have been up for a while and might be looking for somewhere to hide come finals night.

Suicidal to go the early crow but WTF ... hopefully he brings his NZ form with him this time. Terror To Love and Ricky May to win the 2013 final.

[Triple V]

Brad, a good mate of mine who reads this forum from time to time is a very good judge and he reckons that Terror To Love is a superstar. He thinks the upcoming ID lies at his mercy. As a rule he's not given to making big calls so you & he might well be on the same train. It's one of the more compelling build ups to an ID that I can remember. There are so many good ones, proven old stagers and up & coming stars, it is a Series not to be missed. I am leaning towards an ID Final showdown involving ITMQ, Excel Stride, Terror To Love and Smoken Up.

[G-Mac]

TTL was sensational Brad. Frightening to think how good this guy might be.
$4 equal favourite with ITMQ at the moment. If he qualifies for the final and arrives safely you won't be seeing that price.

[Maorisidol]

To answer your question why do I think he is favourite for the ID... Because he can win it! What else? Just cos I don't think he is the best pacer in Australia, doesn't mean he can't win Kevo! And so many people in the media like to talk up the little fella cos he's good for the sport based on his CV, no doubt about it. If I was a reporter u could pump up his tyres so easily cos he's flashy and super impressive with his dynamic sprint etc etc, wins all the time in Perth, will or should win the Freo Cup in about an hours time from when I write this, he is a media dream. He's good for the sport lads, I know this.
However, cos here we are on a FORUM, this is where different people give their own opinion on certain topics.
Some people think Quinn is the número uno, and will hear nothing negative about him at all, somewhat to a very personal totally offended kind of way.
For all u Eagle people and the odd Wagga boy who get so offended at me challenging your hero, harden up, so what if that's what I think, just don't get so cut about it...believe what u believe, good on u, I don't have a problem what different people think of different horses, so why do u guys get so emotional about the big bad Maorisidol attacking little Quinny?
Now to answer your question of who i think is Australia best pacer.... Well That deserves a whole new thread, but someone else can start that if they want, could b interesting and a good debate really.
Anyway, I ask what SHOULD this horse be to earn this position as number 1?
For me, it should have great speed of course, stamina, durability, toughness, never give in attitude and be able to do things that cause the grandstand to stand and clap while saying wow! Part of that is the ability to make several moves in a race and have something in the tank to fight out the finish.
In the past Blackie has fulfilled those requirements and hogged the spot for many years, and nowadays I have to give the Honour to Trigger. Looked a few starts ago that age maybe catching up with him and like this season was gonna be not so good, but based on Vic Cup massive run, SA Cup run fantastic too, however Melpark death seating him was a bit of a query too. But at the end of the day he has 1:48.5 and guts like nobody...so at this point he's it for me, but I reckon this will be his last season as any point he could start going backwards as the Melpark race indicated. Nothing against Melpark I really like him and was glad to see him grab a great victory, it was just so surprising to see Trigger beaten in that way.
Caribbean Blaster not there yet but may be in a short time, Excel Stride shows great potential, Terrorway, no, Washakie always second rung but up there.
So that really only leaves little Quinny and in my opinion of growing up with Hondo Grattan, Paleface, Poppy, Gammalite, Blackie and the likes, Quinn ain't tough enough, he doesn't travel to the east enough to assert his dominance over the other horses like Pure Steel did so regularly.
And if a horse can't win the Vic Cup with the run he had, he ain't the best in Australia, Brenno then says, but it was the fastest lead time ever!!!! Yeah we'll the bloody best horse in the land should still win by then having the sit behind the leader and simply uses his weapon of incredible speed, too easy. But no, couldn't do it again against this quality in the east.

[Big K]

Yes Ash'ol mate,I get it..its your opinion on how you think ..what you believe to be true..that makes you feel good.And there are people who think the same..not a problem.The difference is though..reading through your posts you.. as I see it,stick the boots in to the horse and WA Horses in general,you ensure your posts go a litle bit further and kind of make it personal to us parochial West Aussie's.ITMQ's record is pretty good in the East but you jump on it.Then offer excuses when the good Visitors come here for the Inter's and run very ordinary in the final. Even when Chancellor Cullen came here with a massive reputation and narrowly won The McInerney Ford Classic but then got beat by the locals in the Golden Nugget,no one here posted any negative comments on the depth of the 4yo's in Vic.Why would you?no doubt he's a good horse and any clear thinking person knows that its tough at top level in most States let alone having to travel as well.
So Ash'ol mate,pretty sure most people are sick of our little spat,you believe what you need to to "Feelgood",I dont want you to get your "Blaster" out and pull the "Trigger cause then we'll have a "Major" that only "Dr Quin" might fix.

[little fish]

Typical eagles arrogance - dare anyone say a word against WA it becomes personal

And since when is 'the east' a unified group of states?

This is fishbowl little man's syndrome.

Chancellor Cullen is very very good at his best, but there are a stack of really good 4yos around the country, we'll see in Sydney just how good imvictorius is ,the chariots will be a cracking race and he'll want to be damn good to beat restrepo smolda fly like an eagle and co.... Woops I mentioned 2 kiwis maybe it's now the east + NZ versus WA???

[Maorisidol]

Yes Ash'ol mate,I get it..its your opinion on how you think ..what you believe to be true..that makes you feel good.And there are people who think the same..not a problem.The difference is though..reading through your posts you.. as I see it,stick the boots in to the horse and WA Horses in general,you ensure your posts go a litle bit further and kind of make it personal to us parochial West Aussie's.ITMQ's record is pretty good in the East but you jump on it.Then offer excuses when the good Visitors come here for the Inter's and run very ordinary in the final. Even when Chancellor Cullen came here with a massive reputation and narrowly won The McInerney Ford Classic but then got beat by the locals in the Golden Nugget,no one here posted any negative comments on the depth of the 4yo's in Vic.Why would you?no doubt he's a good horse and any clear thinking person knows that its tough at top level in most States let alone having to travel as well.
So Ash'ol mate,pretty sure most people are sick of our little spat,you believe what you need to to "Feelgood",I dont want you to get your "Blaster" out and pull the "Trigger cause then we'll have a "Major" that only "Dr Quin" might fix.

Was it maybe 20-30 years ago that there was a "movement" in WA to separate from the rest of Australia and become its own country or was that just talk? Cos Kev I reckon u and Rod might have been the founders of such a concept, u have such a chip on your shoulder about thinking that all eastern states people hate WA...it's seems a paranoia.
I have not "stuck the boots into WA horses in general" at all.
U fail to read my English .
I said I would like to own Mysta Magical and Dasher, now to me that says I like 'em, not hate 'em!
This very thing Rod makes it impossible to have a logical discussion with u when u say these kind of things, all my reasonings and examples are based on numbers and stats and real race events.
I have never said oh those Perth horses are all crap! Yet that's what u virtually accuse me of.
I have never said Quinn is crap, the very only absolute thing I say about Quinn is that he is simply not number 1. He's right up there of course, I said of course he could win the ID Final this year...
So, enough banging my head against a brick wall....I'm out.

[Mighty Atom]

Yes Ash'ol mate,I get it..its your opinion on how you think ..what you believe to be true..that makes you feel good.And there are people who think the same..not a problem.The difference is though..reading through your posts you.. as I see it,stick the boots in to the horse and WA Horses in general,you ensure your posts go a litle bit further and kind of make it personal to us parochial West Aussie's.ITMQ's record is pretty good in the East but you jump on it.Then offer excuses when the good Visitors come here for the Inter's and run very ordinary in the final. Even when Chancellor Cullen came here with a massive reputation and narrowly won The McInerney Ford Classic but then got beat by the locals in the Golden Nugget,no one here posted any negative comments on the depth of the 4yo's in Vic.Why would you?no doubt he's a good horse and any clear thinking person knows that its tough at top level in most States let alone having to travel as well.
So Ash'ol mate,pretty sure most people are sick of our little spat,you believe what you need to to "Feelgood",I dont want you to get your "Blaster" out and pull the "Trigger cause then we'll have a "Major" that only "Dr Quin" might fix.

G'day Kev,

Classic mate.

[Mighty Atom]

Ash, I thought all of this had settled down but obviously not . I made no comment about your favourite horse Smoken Up being beaten in the Horsham Cup by Melpark Major, no comment about him running seventh in the Vic Cup, no comment on his second in the NZ Cup,in fact only once have I mentioned his name at all and that's when Excel Stride beat him so emphatically over SU pet distance of 1700 metres.
The minute ITMQ comes over for Vic Cup and runs third what do we get, an assumption from you that the horse is no good because he should have won it easily from his position in the field, and guess what, so should have Smoken Up in the Horsham and NZ Cups from his front running position. Then you had to mention my name as to where I was, you hadn't heard from me for a while, I'm quiet on Quinn's run etc then we get the run down on all his other runs blah,blah ,blah from similar types to you. The reason I had stopped posting for quite some time is that I get tired of having to post comments in the negative and I was seriously considering closing my account because of people like you. Believe me'' the wise men from the east'' doesn't apply here. Your'e out, so am I.

[Toohard]

The reason I had stopped posting for quite some time is that I get tired of having to post comments in the negative and I was seriously considering closing my account because of people like you. Believe me'' the wise men from the east'' doesn't apply here. Your'e out, so am I.


???? You posted negative comments on Smoken Ups fan page less than hour after he won SA Cup?

[Maorisidol]

Ash, I thought all of this had settled down but obviously not . I made no comment about your favourite horse Smoken Up being beaten in the Horsham Cup by Melpark Major, no comment about him running seventh in the Vic Cup, no comment on his second in the NZ Cup,in fact only once have I mentioned his name at all and that's when Excel Stride beat him so emphatically over SU pet distance of 1700 metres.
The minute ITMQ comes over for Vic Cup and runs third what do we get, an assumption from you that the horse is no good because he should have won it easily from his position in the field, and guess what, so should have Smoken Up in the Horsham and NZ Cups from his front running position. Then you had to mention my name as to where I was, you hadn't heard from me for a while, I'm quiet on Quinn's run etc then we get the run down on all his other runs blah,blah ,blah from similar types to you. The reason I had stopped posting for quite some time is that I get tired of having to post comments in the negative and I was seriously considering closing my account because of people like you. Believe me'' the wise men from the east'' doesn't apply here. Your'e out, so am I.

Ok I was out, but when people quote me as saying something I didn't say, that's not right to me.
U have the other blokes problem, understanding English and comprehension and worst yet twisting my words to an exaggerated degree because u r all emotional as soon as u see a post by the big bad Maorisidol!!!!!!! Ooooooooo!!!!
And also making assumptions. When u make an assumption Rod u make an "ass" out of "u" and "me"
Get it? Ass u me... Assume.
U assume Trigger is my "favourite horse"
Show me anywhere on this forum in any of my 200 odd posts where I have stated that! Don't bother u won't find it...
Quinn runs third in the Vic Cup, u then say "we get, an assumption from you that the horse is no good because he should have won it easily"
2 things Rod, I did not ever say he was no good or even infer it...so why say that I said that?
And I also didn't say he should have won easily.... I certainly said that IF he was the best in Australia, he totally should have won, but he didn't. Hence not No. 1.
And now the kicker... On another thread u say this, "As far as ITMQ goes I have never said he is the best",
Mate that's the only thing I have been trying to say, so why the big defence, again I have never said he was a donkey!
It's nothing personal against the horse at all, nothing against WA, nothing against u or Kevin,
just trying to have a discussion on a forum and on here where anyone can have their word on who they may think is number 1 or not or whatever the topic maybe,
No hard feelings mate!
Good thing is we are both passionate about the trots!
Now U have my word on this topic
I'm out.





Ps. Just don't come back and say I said something I didn't...:)

[Mighty Atom]

???? You posted negative comments on Smoken Ups fan page less than hour after he won SA Cup?

You seem to have a fixation with Smoken Up's fan page. I apologized thinking it was your facepage to which you answered "Not mine. Absolutely nothing to do with it'', so what's your issue?
If a facepage is out there to the public it is going to be commented on. Yes you are right, I posted a negative reply to another, as I was saying, counter-productive.

Note: it was a comment not comments.

[Triple V]

Geeze fellas, I've got to admit...it's quite refreshing to see some other poor bastard taking a bit of heat around here. :rolleyes: