drivers, the good, bad & desperate!

[mary]

Desperate drive here.
Mister Desirible was crunched late in this race Thur night at Penrith.
D.Morris tried to go on the inside of Northview Cardle where their was so no room.
Came undone big time.



Final Results - Race 7 PENRITH 10 January 2013 http://www.harness.org.au/images/video-trotstv.gif (http://www.trotstv.com.au/?mc=PE100113&rn=7)

(http://www.trotstv.com.au/?mc=PE100113&rn=7)Replay help (http://www.harness.org.au/content.cfm?id=70)
SKY SPORTS RADIO PACE Race code: PEC10011313 Stakes: $5,000 Gait: PACERS Class: C1 1,720 METRES MOBILE STARTPl HorsePrize-
money Row &
BrTAB
# Trainer Driver
( C = Concession )Mgn
(m)Starting
oddsStewards'
Comments

Expln (http://www.harness.org.au/stewards-comments-explain.cfm?stateName=nsw)1NORTHVIEW CARDLE NZ (http://www.harness.org.au/ausbreed/reports/hraonline.htm)http://www.harness.org.au/blackbook/views/bb_icon.gif (http://www.harness.org.au/meeting-results.cfm?mc=PE100113&ms=nsw#void) $3,350 Fr33P R J FitzpatrickB P Fitzpatrick $ 2.10 GS L WP BL 1BAY GELDING 4 by MCARDLE USA (http://www.harness.org.au/ausbreed/reports/hraonline.htm) out of BEAUDIENE BONNIE (NZ) (http://www.harness.org.au/ausbreed/reports/hraonline.htm)
Owner(s): J J (John) Starr
Breeder(s): Murdoch Bloodstock Ltd2DANCING JOROCO (http://www.harness.org.au/ausbreed/reports/hraonline.htm)http://www.harness.org.au/blackbook/views/bb_icon.gif (http://www.harness.org.au/meeting-results.cfm?mc=PE100113&ms=nsw#void) $675 Sr17E A HeathJ B Ogden 6.40 $ 11.20 INCAS BL 53OLLIE TRUE DEE (http://www.harness.org.au/ausbreed/reports/hraonline.htm)http://www.harness.org.au/blackbook/views/bb_icon.gif (http://www.harness.org.au/meeting-results.cfm?mc=PE100113&ms=nsw#void) $450 Sr28M KowalczykR J Munnoch 10.40 $ 27.40 PRBT BL 64BUNYARRA RAIDER (http://www.harness.org.au/ausbreed/reports/hraonline.htm)http://www.harness.org.au/blackbook/views/bb_icon.gif (http://www.harness.org.au/meeting-results.cfm?mc=PE100113&ms=nsw#void) $225 Fr44C D BrittonJ N Douglass 24.40 $ 70.80 RES BL 75STUDLEIGH ZERO (http://www.harness.org.au/ausbreed/reports/hraonline.htm)http://www.harness.org.au/blackbook/views/bb_icon.gif (http://www.harness.org.au/meeting-results.cfm?mc=PE100113&ms=nsw#void) $50 Fr56G N WebberG J Thompson 33.80 $ 98.20 GS BL 26MISTER DESIRABLE (http://www.harness.org.au/ausbreed/reports/hraonline.htm)http://www.harness.org.au/blackbook/views/bb_icon.gif (http://www.harness.org.au/meeting-results.cfm?mc=PE100113&ms=nsw#void) $50 Fr11G S StamirisD R Morris 33.90 $ 1.80 fav BAS WI CTS B PL1D D/F$200 BL 37SOUND SET (http://www.harness.org.au/ausbreed/reports/hraonline.htm)http://www.harness.org.au/blackbook/views/bb_icon.gif (http://www.harness.org.au/meeting-results.cfm?mc=PE100113&ms=nsw#void) $50 Fr22B J O'BrienB J O'Brien 36.20 $ 120.90 BL 4 (L)Scratchings

[aussiebreno]

I see you've found a desperate one.
Somebody else found a good one in Nathan Jack on Smudge Bromac Sat night at Melton.
So I'll nominate a bad one.
Adam Richardson on Cold Shark, race 5 Temora on Friday night. Woeful.

[HaroldParker]

Did you see the drive on Royal Witness in the first @ Bendigo on Saturday night ?

The stewards should sit him down and make him write "there is a sprint lane at Bendigo" 100 times : )

[HaroldParker]

Did you see the drive on Royal Witness in the first @ Bendigo on Saturday night ?

The stewards should sit him down and make him write "there is a sprint lane at Bendigo" 100 times : )

Nice to see that the stewards noticed too...

[mary]

Good to see they didn't miss the easy hand up to the stablemate or what Dot noticed. (that was strange).

RACE 5 – JASON HOSPITALITY PACE – 1609 METRES
Pre race blood samples were taken from CHARIOT KING and FRANCO JAMAR NZ.
Stewards opened an inquiry into the driving tactics adopted by A McCarthy the driver of FRANCO JAMAR NZ. After taking initial evidence from Driver A McCarthy the inquiry was adjourned to a time and date to be fixed.
CHARIOT KING was held up in the early stages of the home straight.
A post race swab sample was taken from the winner EXCEL STRIDE.

[mightymo]

can you imagine the uproar if FJ had shot through on the fence when Excel Stride drifted off - there would have been cries of race fixing, team driving etc.

Instead, Andy moves to the outside to get a run and now people cry foul...

I have a solution by the way. In some overseas jurisdictions, all horses from one stable are "coupled" and you get them all in any bet you put on. Obviously at reduced odds

[mary]

can you imagine the uproar if FJ had shot through on the fence when Excel Stride drifted off - there would have been cries of race fixing, team driving etc.

Instead, Andy moves to the outside to get a run and now people cry foul...


I would have been cheering FJ on I backed him!
Andy didn't move to the outside he stayed on ES back.

[mary]

In a race if an inside run comes you take it & try to beat whoever is in front of you. Don't you???

[mightymo]

you do, but FJ was heavily backed and Luke would have been accused of drifting off the fence to give FJ a run.

How was Andy to know that ES would drift off?

[mary]

[QUOTE=mightymo;24820]you do, but FJ was heavily backed and Luke would have been accused of drifting off the fence to give FJ a run.

How was Andy to know that ES would drift off?[/QUOTE


This is how I saw it.... Andy had W on his outside, ES in front with no where to go, ES drifts off, a run comes on the inside of ES, and it does & Andy didn't take it... He stayed on ES back & CK goes where Andy should have gone. CK runs a 2.1mtr 2nd. If FJ went where CK did he maybe wins. FJ would have had more time to get their than CK.
Maybe ES drifted off under pressure, horses do that, so NO Luke would not have been accused of any wrong doing.

[dizzy]

I think your clutching at straws here Harvey. You maybe had a point about FJ handing up to ES but the run up the straight? I saw what Mary saw, CK went where FJ should have been if Andy had simply steered a straight course along the pegs never mind searched for a run. Perhaps if it had been CK on ES back Luke may have maintained a straighter course to the finish. If ES has a tendency to drift off under pressure then as a professional driver Andy should have known about it. How did G-Mac know that a run was going to come along the pegs? He didn't he was just prepared to capitilise on the opportunity when it presented itself!

Note the stewards suspended Todd for 6 weeks in an earlier race for an unacceptable drive not disimilar to what occured here in the run home.

[Mighty Atom]

Did you see the drive on Royal Witness in the first @ Bendigo on Saturday night ?

The stewards should sit him down and make him write "there is a sprint lane at Bendigo" 100 times : )

Hello Bob,
I spotted that too, sitting there saying there's a sprint lane in front of you.

[Frano1982]

The stewards concluded an inquiry that was opened at Tabcorp Park Menangle on Saturday 12 January 2013 into driver A. McCarthy tactics adopted on FRANCO JAMAR in Race 5 the Jasol Hospitality Pace. 1609M.
A.McCarthy was found guilty pursuant to Rule 149(1) in that he failed to take all reasonable and permission measures during the course of the race to win or obtain the best possible place. * The following particulars being: 1) near the 1200 metres that after obtaining the lead he commenced to steady FRANCO JAMAR and relinquished the lead to EXCEL STRIDE after a moderate first half when it was permissible to allow FRANCO JAMAR to work forward in an endeavour to make EXCEL STRIDE work harder to obtain the lead. 2)that approaching the 200 metres he failed to attempt to improve FRANCO JAMAR into a run to the inside of EXCEL STRIDE which was available to him and then persevered to obtain a run to the outside of EXCEL STRIDE which was not available. A. McCarthy had his licence to drive in races suspended for 10 weeks.

Well there it is in black and white???

[dizzy]

Adam I'd say that exactly is what everyone but Harvey saw on the night. Brad I'd have to say your comments surprised me on the other thread. VVV you are conspicious by your absence on this one.

[broncobrad]

Adam I'd say that exactly is what everyone but Harvey saw on the night. Brad I'd have to say your comments surprised me on the other thread. VVV you are conspicious by your absence on this one.

Usually Dot, I'm the first one out of the box when I see something not quite right. I only watched the race once and only had eyes for ES and W and the race just panned out as I had expected it to except it took ES a little longer to get to the lead. Wasn't watching Andys hands, just Washakie coming around.

Watched the replay for the first time JUST NOW. I missed it completely. Fortunately others did not. That was the right charge 149 (1), the penalty was much lighter than should have been applied.

[mightymo]

we'll just have to agree to disagree and this time im clearly in the minority!

[mary]

This was only a few weeks ago.
With the last sentance saying "Stewards noted the comments of driver A McCarthy regarding his reasons for handing up to EE AND EM STRIDE."

I agree with Brad, the penalty is way too light, afterall, IMO its a form of race fixing.

[Triple V]

Adam I'd say that exactly is what everyone but Harvey saw on the night. Brad I'd have to say your comments surprised me on the other thread. VVV you are conspicious by your absence on this one.

[VVV] I agree with Harvey.

[Danno]

[VVV] I agree with Harvey.

Ist time for everthing!!

[Triple V]

Ist time for everthing!!

Not true Dan. In fact Harvey and I agree on a whole range of things.

[dizzy]

[VVV] I agree with Harvey.

Now why doesn't that surprise me.

The right charge maybe Brad but not the only one that may be appropriate.

193N Engage in conduct that corrupts betting outcome of event.

Of course thats not in the stewards rule book but it is in the racing and gaming squads book.

"Crimes Amendment (Cheating at Gambling) Bill 2012" been in since 13th of Sep 2012

Test case perhaps?

[mary]

[VVV] I agree with Harvey.

Its indefenceable VVV. If you wanna row mate,you should put both oars in the water.

[mary]

IMO Here is another example of a drive that supports Dot's thoughts for tougher penalties. IMO this race was suss as. Why are Stewards copping this sort of rubbish?


Luke McCarthy (Mach Alert NZ) was queried in relation to the tactics adopted on this gelding in particular the reasons for moving three wide during the middle stages and applying significant pressure to the leader Bitobliss over the final lap. Mr McCarthy stated that Mach Alert NZ had commenced to kick the sulky wheels when pulling hard during the middle stages so therefore he elected to move three wide with 1400m to travel in an attempt to alleviate that particular issue and as a consequence Mach Alert NZ then once positioned outside the leader continued to over-race resulting in a significantly quick third quarter. Mr McCarthy also stated that it was not his intention to run such a quick time down the back straight during the third quarter of the final mile as Mach Alert NZ was still travelling well within itself during this stage and he believed this was detrimental to the overall performance of his own drive

[Triple V]

Now why doesn't that surprise me.

The right charge maybe Brad but not the only one that may be appropriate.

193N Engage in conduct that corrupts betting outcome of event.

Of course thats not in the stewards rule book but it is in the racing and gaming squads book.

"Crimes Amendment (Cheating at Gambling) Bill 2012" been in since 13th of Sep 2012

Test case perhaps?

[VVV] Harvey paid me to say that Dot. You know how these high fliers are.

[Triple V]

Its indefenceable VVV. If you wanna row mate,you should put both oars in the water.

[VVV] What do you want me to say now Harvey?

[Toni]

I just watched the Saturday night race and yes, there was an opening on the inside, but does it really deserve 10 weeks? I havent driven in a race (not sure whether that is obvious or not) - but I would think that a gap can close in a small space of time, hesitate and you have missed a gap...

What would the penalty have been if they werent stable mates?

Also, its got me thinking, with so many runners in a race, how could you not intepret the race to be some sort of team driving, no matter who does what or makes whatever move - if it pays off or not - someone can always put a different spin on things.

[mary]

Hi Toni. With respect. Once a driver allows his horse to drift off the inside and open a gap , he's not allowed to close it . A driver must keep his line once he's straightened for the run to the finish. A driver recieved 6 months in Newcastle for not taking every opportunity to ensure his horse finished as close to 1st as possible by not taking a run that presented itself. Same offence and only 10 weeks . Your right when you say that races or drives can be interpreted differently but when you see as many races as I have in 60 years then you certainly can see the good, the bad and the desperate and also the team driving .

[Triple V]

The rights and wrongs of this decision aside, it was not so long ago where a similar situation occurred here in Sydney only that a protest was fired in by the pocket sitting horse who actually went for the inside run when the leader drifted up the track BUT the driver of the leader clearly looked to his inside, saw the 2nd horse coming to his inside, duly drifted back down the track & closed the gap again to the point that he checked the pocket horse out of contention...and yet the protest was dismissed. Maybe a damned if you take the run, damned if you don't? If you're not the driver of the stablemate and don't take the run...do you still get the same amount of time? Do you get any time? Or is it just a case of someone trying to prove a point re: a stance on team driving and having the opportunity raise its head here to do some applicable sabre rattling? Inquiring minds would like to know (with thanks to Luca Derrico).

[Danno]

With all due respect to everyones opinion on this,when you are in the cart, you need to make decisions and carry them out in very quick time, and having said that, the more often you drive, the more often you make good decisions.

I personnally think young Macca made several poor decisions in succession in this instance, to the point where our game was made to LOOK a bit ordinary when you consider some of the peripheral factors like so many stablemates in the race, handing up x 2 to stablemates etc.

However having said all that, I dont think the stable is dumb enough to think the punting public and the administators are gullible enough to swallow that, so, as I said earlier it LOOKED crook and as such I think young Macca probably got a pretty fair penalty all things considered.

Cheers,
Dan

[mary]

Or is it just a case of someone trying to prove a point re: a stance on team driving and having the opportunity raise its head here to do some applicable sabre rattling?


Most people see things differently, there would be no disscussion if they did not. Each opion is there own. The stewards got it right, they saw what I saw re A.McC, otherwise he would not have recieved any time, & I did see the reasons given re the Cranbourne drive re L.McC but I also saw L.McC had his whip turned around when he took off to give his stable mate cover & then bore Bitobliss into the ground. I do not wear blockeyes. Its my opions & obversations & im entitled. Maybe you wear rose coloured glasses , but that is also fine , we all have our champions .

[Toni]

It seems like if your opinion is in support of the big stables all of a sudden you are wearing rose coloured glasses. I watched the Cranbourne drive and Mach Alert looked to be racing right up the back of the horse in front and to me, looked like he could have been contacting the gig in front (although stewards report says he was contacting his own - if I interpretted that correctly) - so I think he really needed to come out at that point. I do think he still over raced Mach Alert and pushed too hard once he was out obviously, but again there is a fine line between trying and trying too hard.

I also think that if for instance Luke McCarthy was on Franco Jamar and made this mistake of not taking the gap quick enough - then maybe 10 weeks would be appropriate, but I havent see Andy McCarthy's name a lot - had a quick look and he is usually based in America, so has less experience driving in Australia and also driving this horse.

I personally think they were wanting to make an example of him.

[mightymo]

I'm really looking forward to seeing all the comments after the Teeny Teeny on Sat. Belinda has 3 horses in, including the 2 favourites(I part own both of them) and John has one in as well.

I'm sure some "expert" on here will be able to find "team driving" in the race....

For the record, my understanding of team driving, is where a generally inferior horse is "used" to benefit another more favoured horses chances and where if they were not stablemates, that move would not have been made. Ie taking a sit sprinter and pulling 3 wide to give a stablemate cover

There are numerous other instances where a stable has multiple runners that are not "team driving". it only appears that way because the horses are stablemates and the horse in question would have been driven the same way irrespective of who was going to be following.

I hope this makes sense!

[mary]

[QUOTE=Toni;24957]It seems like if your opinion is in support of the big stables all of a sudden you are wearing rose coloured glasses. I watched the Cranbourne drive and Mach Alert looked to be racing right up the back of the horse in front and to me, looked like he could have been contacting the gig in front (although stewards report says he was contacting his own - if I interpretted that correctly) - so I think he really needed to come out at that point. I do think he still over raced Mach Alert and pushed too hard once he was out obviously, but again there is a fine line between trying and trying too hard.

In the Cranbourne race he wasn't climbing over the horse in front . His horse was travelling as it had many times in the past for them. Lukes excuse was that his horses hooves were comming back hitting his own gig. He has given this horse many starts so that to me is impossible. He turned his whip around and took off just as his father reached the death seat. How appropriate .
Gee, I thought Andy drove in Queensland before he came to Sydney . They also take advantage of runs that open in America.

[aussiebreno]

I'm really looking forward to seeing all the comments after the Teeny Teeny on Sat. Belinda has 3 horses in, including the 2 favourites(I part own both of them) and John has one in as well.

I'm sure some "expert" on here will be able to find "team driving" in the race....

For the record, my understanding of team driving, is where a generally inferior horse is "used" to benefit another more favoured horses chances and where if they were not stablemates, that move would not have been made. Ie taking a sit sprinter and pulling 3 wide to give a stablemate cover

There are numerous other instances where a stable has multiple runners that are not "team driving". it only appears that way because the horses are stablemates and the horse in question would have been driven the same way irrespective of who was going to be following.

I hope this makes sense!
All you do on this forum lately is have a go at somebody who questions something about McCarthy. A few days ago you thought people were ludicrous and weren't willing to have a bar of what people said about last weeks race, and not much has changed with this latest post. No need for A McCarthy to appeal, mightymo just has to ring up NSW stewards and tell them they got it wrong.

[mary]

I'm really looking forward to seeing all the comments after the Teeny Teeny on Sat. Belinda has 3 horses in, including the 2 favourites(I part own both of them) and John has one in as well.

I'm sure some "expert" on here will be able to find "team driving" in the race....

For the record, my understanding of team driving, is where a generally inferior horse is "used" to benefit another more favoured horses chances and where if they were not stablemates, that move would not have been made. Ie taking a sit sprinter and pulling 3 wide to give a stablemate cover

There are numerous other instances where a stable has multiple runners that are not "team driving". it only appears that way because the horses are stablemates and the horse in question would have been driven the same way irrespective of who was going to be following.

I hope this makes sense!



Just hope its your turn Harvey . Good luck

[mary]

All you do on this forum lately is have a go at somebody who questions something about McCarthy. A few days ago you thought people were ludicrous and weren't willing to have a bar of what people said about last weeks race, and not much has changed with this latest post. No need for A McCarthy to appeal, mightymo just has to ring up NSW stewards and tell them they got it wrong.

Well said Brendan, Hes name is Reid Sanders.

[dizzy]

[VVV] Harvey paid me to say that Dot. You know how these high fliers are.

VVV i'm familar with your position on the ethical totem pole, the views not great from there.

I see no need for you to tarnish Harvey's name.

[dizzy]

The rights and wrongs of this decision aside, it was not so long ago where a similar situation occurred here in Sydney only that a protest was fired in by the pocket sitting horse who actually went for the inside run when the leader drifted up the track BUT the driver of the leader clearly looked to his inside, saw the 2nd horse coming to his inside, duly drifted back down the track & closed the gap again to the point that he checked the pocket horse out of contention...and yet the protest was dismissed. Maybe a damned if you take the run, damned if you don't? If you're not the driver of the stablemate and don't take the run...do you still get the same amount of time? Do you get any time? Or is it just a case of someone trying to prove a point re: a stance on team driving and having the opportunity raise its head here to do some applicable sabre rattling? Inquiring minds would like to know (with thanks to Luca Derrico).

Was wondering when this would come? The old smoke and mirrors, create a diversion trick hey VVV, when anyone is critical of McCarthy's. Sorry not likely to work we all seen it so many times before.

[dizzy]

It seems like if your opinion is in support of the big stables all of a sudden you are wearing rose coloured glasses. I watched the Cranbourne drive and Mach Alert looked to be racing right up the back of the horse in front and to me, looked like he could have been contacting the gig in front (although stewards report says he was contacting his own - if I interpretted that correctly) - so I think he really needed to come out at that point. I do think he still over raced Mach Alert and pushed too hard once he was out obviously, but again there is a fine line between trying and trying too hard.

I also think that if for instance Luke McCarthy was on Franco Jamar and made this mistake of not taking the gap quick enough - then maybe 10 weeks would be appropriate, but I havent see Andy McCarthy's name a lot - had a quick look and he is usually based in America, so has less experience driving in Australia and also driving this horse.

I personally think they were wanting to make an example of him.

With respect Toni Andrew is a professional driver of considerable experience in Australia and the US, there was a run available to the inside of Excell Stride and Andrew did not take it. Excel Stride did not close the run on him, in fact Andrew also drifted sufficiently of the pegs to facilitate a run for Chariot King who was on his back.

[mightymo]

Brendan

can you please show me where I "have had a go at somebody"???

From memory, I think I said " we will just have to agree to disagree..."

[mightymo]

Just a question re team driving: Did anyone see anything wrong with the WA Pacing Cup the other night and how Livingontheinterest was driven?

I assume since no one has mentioned it, that every one thought that was not an example of team driving. Im not saying that it was, but just surprised that no one has even mentioned it, where as other forums are rampant about it

If that had been the McCarthys Im sure we would have all heard plenty by now!

[dizzy]

I'm really looking forward to seeing all the comments after the Teeny Teeny on Sat. Belinda has 3 horses in, including the 2 favourites(I part own both of them) and John has one in as well.

I'm sure some "expert" on here will be able to find "team driving" in the race....

For the record, my understanding of team driving, is where a generally inferior horse is "used" to benefit another more favoured horses chances and where if they were not stablemates, that move would not have been made. Ie taking a sit sprinter and pulling 3 wide to give a stablemate cover

There are numerous other instances where a stable has multiple runners that are not "team driving". it only appears that way because the horses are stablemates and the horse in question would have been driven the same way irrespective of who was going to be following.

I hope this makes sense!

Harvey I think you are taking a very narrow view on Team Driving. It actually comes in many forms, some more obvious then others. The important thing is that all stable/family runners are not only trying but are seen to be trying to avoid the perception of impropriety. NSW actually has several family dynasties often competing in the same race and very rarely have stewards seen fit to lay charges over the drives. They did however on this occasion over Andrew's handling of Franco Jamar and charged him accordingly.

Franco Jamars owners are perhaps not as well informed or as understanding as you are Harvey. The horse has been transferred to David Thorn.

[aussiebreno]

Brendan

can you please show me where I "have had a go at somebody"???

From memory, I think I said " we will just have to agree to disagree..."
It is clear your intent of "some 'experts' on here" was to demean those who opinions disagreed with yours.

I think the WA Cup race drive did get queried on here, but certaintly the week before a lot was said when ITMQ got beat.

I can't speak for others, but I don't think this is a war against McCarthy, just a war on getting fair racing. Two other bad drives were pointed out in this very thread before discussion turned to the McCarthys race.

[mightymo]

It is clear your intent of "some 'experts' on here" was to demean those who opinions disagreed with yours.

I think the WA Cup race drive did get queried on here, but certaintly the week before a lot was said when ITMQ got beat.



Did you have an issue with the WA pacing cup? ie. do you think that was team driving by the Hall camp

[broncobrad]

Just a question re team driving: Did anyone see anything wrong with the WA Pacing Cup the other night and how Livingontheinterest was driven?

I assume since no one has mentioned it, that every one thought that was not an example of team driving. Im not saying that it was, but just surprised that no one has even mentioned it, where as other forums are rampant about it

If that had been the McCarthys Im sure we would have all heard plenty by now!

Pretty sure I covered that on the WA Cup thread Harvey, Post #7 in part says "even with the beautiful suck into the race, it was good to see IMTQ back on top"

It probably wasn't as controversial a quote as you would expect but the intent in the wording is crystal clear...or atleast to me it was.

[Toni]

[QUOTE=Toni;24957]It seems like if your opinion is in support of the big stables all of a sudden you are wearing rose coloured glasses. I watched the Cranbourne drive and Mach Alert looked to be racing right up the back of the horse in front and to me, looked like he could have been contacting the gig in front (although stewards report says he was contacting his own - if I interpretted that correctly) - so I think he really needed to come out at that point. I do think he still over raced Mach Alert and pushed too hard once he was out obviously, but again there is a fine line between trying and trying too hard.

In the Cranbourne race he wasn't climbing over the horse in front . His horse was travelling as it had many times in the past for them. Lukes excuse was that his horses hooves were comming back hitting his own gig. He has given this horse many starts so that to me is impossible. He turned his whip around and took off just as his father reached the death seat. How appropriate .
Gee, I thought Andy drove in Queensland before he came to Sydney . They also take advantage of runs that open in America.

You are right, I watched it again and where I was confusing myself is that he looked to contact the gig in front earlier in the race (also up the home straight but its not so clear on the replay when you enlarge the screen). I still dont think it was a bad run for him. I didnt think the McCarthy's had this horse for long, seems not long ago I saw him in a race in Queensland, although I dont really keep track of horses moving to and from.

I also dont know if Andy drove in Qld before Sydney, I do beleive I just explained I hadnt heard of him?!

I think people need to have a bit of a chill pill - I dont think anyone is "having a go" at anyone - and when someoen says something like that, it really brings the mood down. I think its hard to forget that sometimes you read your own intent into other people's writing and that it may be the case that wasnt the intent at all.

I honestly think if you have a look at any race with mutiple stable runners and you will find you can intepret some sort of team driving in there, no matter what the outcome is.

What do people think he would have got if they were not stable mates and it was a charge of not giving his horse a chance?

[eliteblood]

[QUOTE=mary;24962]


What do people think he would have got if they were not stable mates and it was a charge of not giving his horse a chance?

Toni,

The 10 week suspension was on a charge of not driving his horse to win or obtain the best possible place. There was no mention of team driving or the involvement of stablemates.
Had he been found guilty of team driving I would expect that a much longer disqualification would have resulted
By comparison, his brother was also suspended for the same offence last Saturday when there was no apparent involvement of another "stablemate" and got 6 weeks.

[Triple V]

Very nice air clearing there Trevor.

[mary]

Franco Jamars owners are perhaps not as well informed or as understanding as you are Harvey. The horse has been transferred to David Thorn.


Thanks to Chris Barsby, who btw does a wonderful job ....ID13 Update; Franco Jamar has a bonechip on his knee, out for at least 4 months. Career now in doubt

[Triple V]

Thanks to Chris Barsby, who btw does a wonderful job ....ID13 Update; Franco Jamar has a bonechip on his knee, out for at least 4 months. Career now in doubt

[VVV] Bugger. That's crap news. Hope he gets fixed up & is back soon.

[David Summers]

Yes indeed. A year or so back he looked liked being a real superstar. Here's hoping for a speedy recovery and have him back better than ever.

[clumsy]

I see you've found a desperate one.
Somebody else found a good one in Nathan Jack on Smudge Bromac Sat night at Melton.
So I'll nominate a bad one.
Adam Richardson on Cold Shark, race 5 Temora on Friday night. Woeful.

Same driver struck again in race 8 at Wagga today. Attacked from three wide the same as he did at Temora.

[mary]

Just watched the replay of FM Cup last night.....Great drive from Chris Lewis. Well done.

[mary]

Also form Newcastle last race Thur, G Chapple.....smart drive, got the bickies with that one when he ran as soon as the fav made his move. Very good.

[mary]

Well done Harvey, your mares went terrific.

[mightymo]

Thanks Mary. Very proud of my girls.

Any thoughts on race 3 last night at menangle - 55.8 for the 1200-400M and no question asked????

[mary]

Thanks Mary. Very proud of my girls.

Any thoughts on race 3 last night at menangle - 55.8 for the 1200-400M and no question asked????


IMO, Darren sure did try & soften MA. But didn't come off. Should have been some questions asked.
Race before Micky M has a please explain.

[mightymo]

IMO, Darren sure did try & soften MA. But didn't come off. Should have been some questions asked.
Race before Micky M has a please explain.


I cant imagine the uproar if Luke or Andy had done that with a stablemate in the run...

[Danno]

Harvey I believe its about time somebody said this..........there are many drivers and trainers bagged on this forum, and very few have anyone running to their defense, but as soon as anything is mentioned regarding the McCarthy family, yourself and a couple of others come out swinging in their defense and making out they ( McCarthy's) are being singled out by people for one reason or another!

I have not seen you or the others who rush to defend the Maccas, run ANY defense whatsoever for ANY other person being bagged by contributors to this forum, which, as you can imagine, leads me to think you may not be defending fair play so much as defending certain players.....so mate if you want people to regard your opinion as being fair, untainted and balanced, I reckon you want to look at this aspect of your posts because openminded people like myself are beginning to wonder if there is an agenda that is yet to be aired.

[mightymo]

Dan

in answer to your question. Yes, I absolutely believe that people scrutinize Luke(in particular) and his team above and beyond any other trainer/drivers. I suppose part of that comes from the fact that he is the leading trainer/driver in the State. However, all I ask for is consistency. We need to apply the same standards and expectations to all drivers. Right now it is my opinion that is not the case. and hence my comments above.

What did you think of the race i referred to?

[Danno]

However, all I ask for is consistency.


Harvey with all due respect, consistency was what my post was all about...we need to talk the talk, AND walk the walk.
Cheers,
Dan

[mightymo]

I am very happy to take on the "consistency" challenge. I expect you and others will have no problem doing the same.

Hopefully we will all be able to find more positive stories to discuss...

[aussiebreno]

Mightymo, are you suggesting the stewards are going harder/targetting/singling out/treating differently (whatever you want to call it) the McCarthys to other participants?

Edit: Why do you want more 'positive' stories? :o :p

[mary]

Edit: Why do you want more 'positive' stories?

Cute Brendan.

Boort...Did anyone have a problem with C.Alford on Daylight Dan? I see he has a QDT & really can not understand why. He led & ran them along & ran a great 3rd to the top Restrepo.

[Danno]

I watched that race Mary and thought the drive was daring, but hey it nearly got the job done too, the others got to Daylight Dan, but when they did they were going up and down on the one spot, so in my estimation the drive was also not far off the mark. Having said that I'm not familiar with the horses racing history other than it had won it's previous 4 starts, maybe it was a drive that was completely upside down to how the horse normally races? Reckon I might have a snoop around.

[mary]

Same driver struck again in race 8 at Wagga today. Attacked from three wide the same as he did at Temora.

RACE 8 – WAGGA BOULEVARDE MOTOR INN PACE. 1755M
Connections of FLITEOFTHECONCORDS advised their intention to vary tactics and drive the gelding further back. Driven accordingly.
STUDLEIGH MATTHEW was checked and broke after the start when COLD SHARK which was drawn to his outside hung in after the start and MISTER MANHATTAN which was drawn to his inside hung out after the start. No action was taken against any horse or driver due to the marginal shift from both runners.
A.Richardson was questioned regarding the tactics he adopted and performance of COLD SHARK. A. Richardson stated that he progressed forward at the start with the intention of taking up a forward position which is COLD SHARK’S usual racing pattern. A. Richardson stated that near the 1500 metres it was evident that P. Diebert on MISTER MANHATTAN would not surrender the position outside the leader therefore he steadied COLD SHARK and sat back off the leading horses. A. Richardson stated COLD SHARK races keenly and he is unable to restrain him to the rear of the field, therefore he elected to remain racing three wide for the remainder of the short distance race. A. Richardson stated he was pleased with COLD SHARK’S performance at a recent trial where he ran second in a fast 1:57.5 mile rate, however stated that two races and a trial in one week, together with the extreme heat may have adversely affected COLD SHARK. A. Richardson further stated it was his intention to give COLD SHARK a freshen up before racing him again.

[mary]

IMO, Darren sure did try & soften MA. But didn't come off. Should have been some questions asked.
Race before Micky M has a please explain.

When questioned regarding the tactics employed on DEE DEVITO between the 1600 metres and the 1200 metres when the tempo increased significantly, Trainer/driver M Muscat explained that it was his intention to maintain the position outside of the leader throughout and when GLOBAL VIEW improved three wide to its outside near the 1600 metres he commenced to drive his runner with a level of vigour to maintain this position as he was concerned that if GLOBAL VIEW was allowed to race forward of DEE DEVITO it may be able to cross to the lead. M Muscat added that he had formed the view that that runner is one of the hardest to beat therefore DEE DEVITO was better suited by racing in its favourite position outside of the leader. M Muscat added that he placed significant pressure on the leader TOKYO DRIFT NZ near the 1400 metres as he was of the opinion that that gelding would surrender. However TOKYO DRIFT NZ commenced to overrace making the lead unattainable. M Muscat’s explanation was noted.
When questioned regarding the tactics employed on TOKYO DRIFT NZ during the middle stages driver L Panella explained that she had been instructed to lead and then obtain cover if challenged. L Panella added that when challenged by DEE DEVITO in the middle stages her offside ear plug had released prematurely and consequently the gelding overraced due to the vigour that was being applied to DEE DEVITO making it impossible for TOKYO DRIFT NZ to be restrained in order to take cover. L Panella’s explanation was noted.

[aussiebreno]

RACE 8 – WAGGA BOULEVARDE MOTOR INN PACE. 1755M
Connections of FLITEOFTHECONCORDS advised their intention to vary tactics and drive the gelding further back. Driven accordingly.
STUDLEIGH MATTHEW was checked and broke after the start when COLD SHARK which was drawn to his outside hung in after the start and MISTER MANHATTAN which was drawn to his inside hung out after the start. No action was taken against any horse or driver due to the marginal shift from both runners.
A.Richardson was questioned regarding the tactics he adopted and performance of COLD SHARK. A. Richardson stated that he progressed forward at the start with the intention of taking up a forward position which is COLD SHARK’S usual racing pattern. A. Richardson stated that near the 1500 metres it was evident that P. Diebert on MISTER MANHATTAN would not surrender the position outside the leader therefore he steadied COLD SHARK and sat back off the leading horses. A. Richardson stated COLD SHARK races keenly and he is unable to restrain him to the rear of the field, therefore he elected to remain racing three wide for the remainder of the short distance race. A. Richardson stated he was pleased with COLD SHARK’S performance at a recent trial where he ran second in a fast 1:57.5 mile rate, however stated that two races and a trial in one week, together with the extreme heat may have adversely affected COLD SHARK. A. Richardson further stated it was his intention to give COLD SHARK a freshen up before racing him again.
You can blame the weather, the float trip, the race tempo, the trial, the horses racing style but at the end of the day there is only one thing to blame and I think everybody knows that.

While you've bought up a section from a Wagga stewards report here is something from Race 2 on Friday.

RACE 2 – WAGGA TAB NUMBER 1 CLUB PACE. 1755M
The all clear was delayed to allow stewards the opportunity to review the replay of the start, in particular the starting position of CLOUDY BEACH which was placed first by the judge. The evidence disclosed that due to a scratching on the front row, SIZZLING MAXWELL should have started from barrier two, however SIZZLING MAXWELL remained in barrier three, which resulted in no horse starting out of barrier two. CLOUDY BEACH which was drawn barrier eight was pulling hard and racing keenly in the score up and at the starting point CLOUDY BEACH had its front legs in a front line position, effectively between the horse in barrier one and the horse in barrier three. Soon after the start CLOUDY BEACH was able to fully progress through into the front line and lead the race by the first turn. Acting under Rule 66(h) CLOUDY BEACH was disqualified from the race as it gained an unfair advantage by starting further forward than its second row barrier position. The all clear was then given on the numbers 3-6-7-5.
G. Maxwell (SIZZLING MAXWELL) was fined $200 under Rule 162(1)(g) for starting from the incorrect barrier position.
It was noted that CAPRI sustained a flat tyre near the 700 metres which placed it at a disadvantage for the remainder of the race. As CAPRI gave ground over the concluding stages, HIGHVIEW OBAN was checked and galloped.


This, imo, is absolutely ridiculous. When a driver from inside the back row intentionally doesn't score up properly and gets off the pegs they get a $200 fine. When a driver from the front line doesn't is in the wrong starting position (how would somebody start from 3 instead of 2 is beyond me) they get a $200 fine. But when somebody is trying to do the right thing and marginally infringes they get DQed for it.

[Triple V]

Boort...Did anyone have a problem with C.Alford on Daylight Dan? I see he has a QDT & really can not understand why. He led & ran them along & ran a great 3rd to the top Restrepo.

[VVV] No, not a problem in the world with it Mary.
Given their respective Draws, off the Front versus 20m, I thought the only shot Puppet had to knock over Restrepo & win it was to jump cleanly and set about putting as much track as possible & as quickly as possible, between himself and Gavin Lang.
Puppet's horse had won 5 of his last 6 & his last 4 in a row so it was not as though he was on a pie eater & it's not like he folded up his tent & finished motherless. He finished 3rd, beaten 7m & a very good effort too. It was well & truly a legitamet tactic IMO. That was just a 'for show' query by the Stewards IMO.

[Triple V]

This, imo, is absolutely ridiculous. When a driver from inside the back row intentionally doesn't score up properly and gets off the pegs they get a $200 fine. When a driver from the front line doesn't is in the wrong starting position (how would somebody start from 3 instead of 2 is beyond me) they get a $200 fine. But when somebody is trying to do the right thing and marginally infringes they get DQed for it.

[VVV] I feel your pain Breno. It's right up there, no question. The same goes for fining Drivers for a change of tactics aboard a fav. even when said change (snagging off the gate instead of going forward) sees to it that the fav. still wins the race. That particularly stirling effort from the since departed the Stewarding ranks Mr. Cable will go down in History as one of, if not THE most ridiculous rulings to have ever been made on a racecourse. Straight to The Pool Room. God forbid that some common sense ever creeps in.

[mary]

Straight to The Pool Room.

And that statement is one of the best ive ever heard.

[Triple V]

The Castle, my favourite movie, a tally-ho paper's thickness ahead of Any Given Sunday.

[clumsy]

VVV
I am sure that Mr Cable has recently been appointed as a steward again.

[Triple V]

Not that I've heard Greg.
Pretty sure that was Ron Bottle.

[clumsy]

Not that I've heard Greg.
Pretty sure that was Ron Bottle.
My mistake it was Ron Bottle.

[Triple V]

They're easy to tell apart. Ron wears nicer trenchcoats than Bill ever did. I think Ron might have inherited a few of Roger's old ones. :rolleyes:

[The Form Student]

They're easy to tell apart. Ron wears nicer trenchcoats than Bill ever did. I think Ron might have inherited a few of Roger's old ones. :rolleyes:

Maybe, but "Chops" set this fashion statement!

[Triple V]

Maybe, but "Chops" set this fashion statement!

[VVV] Have always liked the look of the Trenchcoats.

Would like to see them go the whole nine yards and top off the look with a pair of Wing Tip shoes...
http://www.afunkyshoeandboot.com/Mensfootwear/BlkWWingtips.jpg


and a nice Fedora, especially one with a feather or two in the band.
http://images.monstermarketplace.com/hip-hop-clothing-and-accessories/tan-paper-feather-fedora-500x341.jpg

[The Form Student]

[VVV] Have always liked the look of the Trenchcoats.

Would like to see them go the whole nine yards and top off the look with a pair of Wing Tip shoes...
http://www.afunkyshoeandboot.com/Mensfootwear/BlkWWingtips.jpg


and a nice Fedora, especially one with a feather or two in the band.
http://images.monstermarketplace.com/hip-hop-clothing-and-accessories/tan-paper-feather-fedora-500x341.jpg

Well you have picked it one, he did have a fedora style hat, but not so sure about the shoes! So the stewards, are also "trend-setters" of fashion. Mr Pascoe (chops)also had the stylish "lamb-chop" style sideburns! Maybe they could also make a return!
Those trench-coats did keep you warm on nights when things weren't going to well on the punt!

[Triple V]

The best part about the Fedora is that if you happen to wear it Trout Fishing & find that no matter which Fly you go to you're just not getting any attention, you can always go for the 'Hail Mary option' which is neatly stuck to the side of your Hat.
Legend has it that a visiting Victorian Stipe once caught a hulking great 12lb Rainbow off the Dam wall at Tumut and did so with just such a last roll of the dice.
When he opened it up he was surprised to find a men's wristwatch inside.
The engraving on the back had apparently deteriorated somewhat but part of it was said to have read "You can't beat a good Chinese Meal". Evidently....even the Sirens Song of Fedora Feathers are no iron-clad guarentee of landing one for the dinner plate. ;)

[aussiebreno]

Well, what a difference a fortnight makes to how the fast class McCarthy runners are driven.

[hillbillydeluxe]

They may have changed the fast class but in the 3 yr old in the last at Menangle the Mcarthy stable had 1 & 3
the 1 should have easily held out the 3 the 3 is allowed to cross without any pressure whatsoever
the 3 has an easy lead and the 1 trails and even in the straight the 1 shows absolutely no vigour to get of the wheel from behind the stablemate.
mmmmmmmm the 1 should have lead easily and if the owner does not say something there bad.
I would be annoyed if that owner

[Greg Hando]

He has led or handed up in 2 out of his last 3 before sat so i would say the tactic's haven't been changed. On the 29-12 he led in 27.2, handed up at the 1200,12-1 led in 26.2 and 29.7 then handed up at approx the 700 and on sat led early and took the sit in 28.3 so i think a racing pattern had been established also i think Bebrave is a far superior horse than Gooday Stride. Just my opinion.