Has There Been A Death In The Family?

[broncobrad]

For such a lively forum at times, what the hell has happened? So many regular contributors are missing in action. There was some nastiness a few weeks ago that I fear may have removed some of our more outspoken or forthright compardries. I can only summise that because our good friend over the ditch was quite active at the time and issuing warnings about what behaviour is acceptable that there has been some collateral damage.

Coming off one of the most devastating ID finals (since Perth lol), new drug? allegations, some heavy DQs and warning offs, some great 3 yr olds squaring off, fabulous square gaiting in Vic etc etc etc etc, all I can hear are crickets.

Nothing on anybodys mind? Cannot believe after the original ID format was thrown out the door that no-one has given it a thorough critique after the Sydney experience and all the critcism that preceded it?

Nobody thinks much of the great 3yr colts that are bumping heads at the moment? I am dumbfounded.

There have been a lot of new members joining the forum in recent times but are yet to post a thread or make a contribution. Can I say please don't be shy. You have joined for a reason, if you have something on your mind please say so. If it is controversial and are unsure whether to post, as long as you can back it up with facts, go for it. Try to keep personal attacks out of it, it only stifles open conversation. I sat on the sidelines for six months before I made my first comment. Don't be like me.

So Brendan, after all the hoo ha and your little fav doing everything right, how do you see the ID format after the dust has settled? Thats a starter!

[Chariots]

Good post Brad. I was wondering where all the critics of HRNSW over the perceived inactivity regarding the integrity issues that were encountered are now.

It was always going to take time to work with the police charges and then proceed within the Rules of Racing.

Re the inters it would be interesting to have access to the national turnover figures so Menangle could be compared to Perth.

[p plater]

I'm still in shock to see Jim Bennett's name on the list. .....Staggered.

[teecee]

I only know of one person who went on holiday but he's back and there has been plenty of positives through here since then.
Seen many names regulars among them pop up at the bottom of the screen come and go.
in keeping with the title of the thread I note today the sad and sudden passing of Mr G Blackburn, owner of Sir Lincoln(Royal). Shock to all who knew him.
Another topic is the decision of HRA, against all sensible advice I am advised, to proceed with and impose a tax on all you good Aussies who want to buy a good ready to race product of here. Having already be warned by our ambassador as a breach of our mutual free trade agreement (CER) it might yet become bigger than the apple blight saga.
Will you pay the "Tax", fight it or not bother to buy or horses? or wont it matter either way?

[broncobrad]

This is a disgraceful tax designed wholly and solely to protect the Aus breeding industry and to make life harder for you guys slugging it out for little reward. Reminds me of the the tarriffs of the 70's until most were lifted opening up our markets to the world. Talk about a retrograde, step back into the past for all the wrong reasons. You kiwis will bear the brunt of an unbelievable, unreal position by us. On the upside, some of you may get to hang onto a horse that we would normally be stealing off you, picking up a couple of quick wins to cover expenses before they become MORE than handy horses.

[HarnessFan]

Having attended a BOTRA meeting in QLD recently, it seemed pretty ordinary that HRA didn't clearly articulate what exactly would be happening with the funds received. I assumed that the funds would be used to go to the national broodmare credits scheme.

It is quite intriguing how a national broodmare scheme can formally commence in April in only one state (WA).

Surely in industry as a whole deserves a clearer picture of the beast that is being rolled out by Adam Kelly - perhaps he doesn't know yet.

I buy a lot of horses from NZ. We all like to bargain when we buy, the certain drop in demand from us Aussies will ensure that the NZ industry will be hardest hit.

[Danno]

The increased import fee ( or tariiff if you like) is another bullshit remedy to prop up the commercial breeder in Australia, nothing more , nothing less. The whole game has been paying through the nose to support a group of people that constantly claim they cant make ends meet.

When service fees come into line with what people are prepared to pay for yearlings, and prizemoney, integrity and marketing find some growth the game may start to consolidate, but at the moment the game is failing, so to impose a bullshit tax on everyone who deals in NZ horses ( and I'm not one of them ) in order to create a false security for one group of people.......dumb move IMO, and just another dumb move that supports the commercial breeeder and makes life a little harder for the poor old owners, the real lifeblood of this game that keeps on getting kicked in the guts.

Cheers,
Dan

[aussiebreno]

So Brendan, after all the hoo ha and your little fav doing everything right, how do you see the ID format after the dust has settled? Thats a starter!
A specific reference to mwah, makes me feel special Brad :)

I needed a breather after huffing and puffing about Quinny for so long! My thoughts about the ID format haven't waivered since I first heard about it. Ridiculous. The Sushi Sushi and 3 horse heat episodes only done more to confirm my hatred of the format. The less said about it the better. There is no need for any comment on the series in the aftermath, let it be the death in the family this thread mentions (this ID format being that creepy 2nd cousin you never liked). It is clear to me that 2014 should be back to a more traditional format (I'm more certain of that than I was of Quinny winning). Three heats, a final in two epic weeks at Menangle. Thatswhatimtalkingabout. Your thoughts Brad?

I also endorse more newbies posting - more opinions the better.

[Bonnie]

The increased import fee ( or tariiff if you like) is another bullshit remedy to prop up the commercial breeder in Australia, nothing more , nothing less. The whole game has been paying through the nose to support a group of people that constantly claim they cant make ends meet.

When service fees come into line with what people are prepared to pay for yearlings, and prizemoney, integrity and marketing find some growth the game may start to consolidate, but at the moment the game is failing, so to impose a bullshit tax on everyone who deals in NZ horses ( and I'm not one of them ) in order to create a false security for one group of people.......dumb move IMO, and just another dumb move that supports the commercial breeeder and makes life a little harder for the poor old owners, the real lifeblood of this game that keeps on getting kicked in the guts.

Cheers,


Dan

As a commercial/semi - commercial breeder in Australia I refute the suggestion that this move will " prop me up " . I have been a breeder and owner of standardbreds all my life and since purchasing the previous Vinery Thoroughbred Stud in Victoria we have sought to upgrade our mares. 90% of the broodmare band has been purchased as yearlings or going horses from NZ or the USA. These imported mares have left ; Maffioso, Sugarland , Musical Delight , Countdown , Yankee Rockstar ,
Couragesnquick, with racemares such as Shezacullen, National Gallery and Kabbalah Karen B yet to have progeny on the track.
I feel the importation of mares is of great benefit to whole broodmare industry as it broadens the Australian gene pool and provides further options for the future. Many imported mares have become the foundation of great "Australian " families.
Any mares that I now import will be subject to this increase . It further adds to my costs and my greater concern is ; what will become of these funds that are raised. It is a simple process to estimate the value and put forward a plan to provide the industry with information for the disbursement of the proceeds. Lets hope it doesn't fall into that big black hole !

[little fish]

Too much crapping on about ITMQ turned me off a bit - all the 'silence the doubters' and 'shut up anyone who doesnt think he's clearly the best now' type talk shoving it down people's throats.

I made a comment about his record with/without Smoken Up's presence and got jumped on.

I still stand by the comment that Smoken Up has always been a better horse than ITMQ - up until the last 6 months or so. Adam Hamilton's twitter campaign has been nauseating.

[mightymo]

Dan

I also take issue with this. In fact, you could not be more wrong. The commercial breeder doesnt gain anything from this. The whole purpose of the original report( some 18 months ago) was to try and stimulate the HOBBY breeder. Hobby breeders account for around 90% of all foals born and they have been leaving the industry in droves or simply not breeding. The breeders panel report made numerous suggestions as to how to possibly reverse this trend. These included creating a national mares credit scheme, more fillies and mares races, increased bonuses for fillies and mares winning their first race etc.

Unfortunately, HRA and the various state bodies decided to implement higher import fees without any detail as to how the resulting revenue is to be used other than to say for "breeding iniatives". This is very disappointing, as the panel members including myself, have now been attacked as having been the brains behind the import tax, when in fact all we proposed was measures to try and get more foals on the ground and create more opportunities for fillies and mares so that people are more likely to breed from them.

[mightymo]

I forgot to mention, that I personally import 5-10 horses every year from both USA and NZ. I also breed in NZ and get horses up and going with a view to selling to Aust. So, for people to say that I am going to benefit under this new fee is just plain ridiculous.

[Danno]

As a commercial/semi - commercial breeder in Australia I refute the suggestion that this move will " prop me up " . I have been a breeder and owner of standardbreds all my life and since purchasing the previous Vinery Thoroughbred Stud in Victoria we have sought to upgrade our mares. 90% of the broodmare band has been purchased as yearlings or going horses from NZ or the USA. These imported mares have left ; Maffioso, Sugarland , Musical Delight , Countdown , Yankee Rockstar ,
Couragesnquick, with racemares such as Shezacullen, National Gallery and Kabbalah Karen B yet to have progeny on the track.
I feel the importation of mares is of great benefit to whole broodmare industry as it broadens the Australian gene pool and provides further options for the future. Many imported mares have become the foundation of great "Australian " families.
Any mares that I now import will be subject to this increase . It further adds to my costs and my greater concern is ; what will become of these funds that are raised. It is a simple process to estimate the value and put forward a plan to provide the industry with information for the disbursement of the proceeds. Lets hope it doesn't fall into that big black hole !

G'day Anne,
think it's fair to say harshest increases in the import fees are designed to slow or make more expensive the importation of the going horses to Australia, hence make Australian bred horses more attractive than they currently are..simple supply and demand thing where you manipulate the market/demand and increase the value of the home grown product, but the person wearing the cost is our owners.....I believe they are doing it tougher now than at any time during my forty years of involvement in this silly game, and as usual, nobody is doing much lobbying on their behalf.

Cheers,
Dan

[Danno]

Dan

I also take issue with this. In fact, you could not be more wrong. The commercial breeder doesnt gain anything from this. The whole purpose of the original report( some 18 months ago) was to try and stimulate the HOBBY breeder. Hobby breeders account for around 90% of all foals born and they have been leaving the industry in droves or simply not breeding. The breeders panel report made numerous suggestions as to how to possibly reverse this trend. These included creating a national mares credit scheme, more fillies and mares races, increased bonuses for fillies and mares winning their first race etc.

Unfortunately, HRA and the various state bodies decided to implement higher import fees without any detail as to how the resulting revenue is to be used other than to say for "breeding iniatives". This is very disappointing, as the panel members including myself, have now been attacked as having been the brains behind the import tax, when in fact all we proposed was measures to try and get more foals on the ground and create more opportunities for fillies and mares so that people are more likely to breed from them.

G'day Harvey,
supply and demand mate, if you manipulate the supply and it's costs you will manipulate demand, demand is what supports price in any competitve market, thats how I, in fact could not be more right. So to say the commercial breeder doesn't gain anything from this could not be more either naive or wrong, take your pick.

I am one of those people who are the hobby breeders you refer to and we mainly are also owners...breeding our own to race (hopefully). I believe the reason behind hobby breeders breeding less is because owners are leaving the game in the droves, the reasons for this are many, but if you ran an exit poll I believe the majority would say prizemoney levels, followed by integrity issues.
I have been around this game for a long time, about 45 of my 55 years and I have never seen such density in the winning trainers as we are seeing, in particular over the last 6 or 7 years......like it/believe it or not there is at least a PERCEPTION that something untoward is happening..and you know the saying "perception is reality" and owners are leaving the game, not soley because of this, but some certainly are saying so.

If this increased tax is supposedly designed to encourage hobby breeders to breed more foals it has therfore missed the mark by a country mile!!!

As I said in my response to Anne, I think the tax on the going horses is most excessive and just adds further to the costs of our poor battered owners.

Cheers,
Dan

[p plater]

Maybe its our Industry's version of the CARBON TAX

[HaroldParker]

I was banned from posting and had a thread removed for throwing P Ferguson under the bus for his drive in the Auckland Cup. Hung out ROFL !! The stewards bought it, I suggested 12 weeks minimum.

Now I've thrown many a driver under the bus on this forum, P Ferguson the first Kiwi driver. The forum moderator is fine with Aussie bashing, just leave the hapless Kiwi's alone : )

[teecee]

Although I take personal exception to your comments about my alleged support for Aussie bashing and believe you should be sanctioned for same in this instance I'm going to leave your post above intact so that it can be referred to relative to this post.
The problem is that your post, as consistent with your latest, was a direct and deliberate attack on named persons where there was no evidence to substantiate your claim.
I don't know what race you were watching. I'm sure it wasn't the same Auckland Cup I was watching but okay you can have your opinion.
A few things for you to consider when accusing the stewards panel of being incompetent and the chief steward of lying in his meeting report...(and when you want to use your race analysis talents on NZ racing)
1.. whether you like it or not the race was run in NZ under the NZ rules of harness racing. Clearly you are not familiar with the rules governing the meeting. They are available in full on www.hrnz.co.nz (http://www.hrnz.co.nz) for you to be more au fait next time.
2.. The stewards have access to upto 5 various angles of your so claimed incident. You as a TV viewer has one.
3.. If what you claim happened then under NZ rules it would be G Hall Jnr facing a charge not P Ferguson. NZ rules allow drivers to push out and displace other outside runners within the last 1000m of a race. They don't allow pushing in as you claim G Hall Jnr cleverly "shut the gate" I guess what you think you saw and claimed in your post didn't happen.
4.. Just to enlighten you further..Driving penalties are more consistently managed in NZ. Suspension are not handed out willy nilly. they are based on the number of drives a driver may lose in that period of stand down. As per agreed guidelines drawn up in consultation with all interested parties including the NZ harness racing trainers and drivers assn. Race penalties in NZ are not at the whim and desire of the stewards based on what side of the bed they got out that day.
Stewards in NZ don't make the rules. They police the rules made by other consulted parties of all stakeholders.

Your post was deleted for as I told you at the time...
You accused the stewards of lying because their view of a race incident as written in their report did not concur with your view. They have better resources and knowledge than you as a punter / viewer to determine what happens in a race and why.
Your claim that Mr Ferguson had breached the rules and should be outed is not based on any sense of reality of the situation or the rules.
I repeat Please do not call people Liars on this forum when you don't know the rules under which they operate nor the resources with which to judge.

Finally I doubt that your claim that I support Aussie bashing will garner much support from those in this forum whose posts have gone the same way as yours for the same reason. I can't see that changing sadly. When one leaves another inevitably takes their place.
Personally there is plenty of opinion I read on here I don't agree with and with 40 plus years experience in every aspect of the racing industry from television, wagering, on track services, Stud work, breeding, ownership, training, administration...you name it...Clearly there is much I have read here I didn't know nor believe or it may not all be true but an opinion honestly thought through supporting their view of the ISSUE is what fills these pages and enlightens the masses.
What the forum moderator.. quote you.. is not fine with and has received plenty of support not just from members but also those non members who come onto the forum to read the great material as guests, is people who come on here think to hell with the rules, to hell with any thought of what they are writing, to hell with who they may be insulting... just go for it eh. And then shock horror, cry wolf..are gobsmacked that the defamatory trash they write has miraculously disappeared. Then they whinge and moan..."I didn't do anything wrong. my post was unfairly deleted. Let's bag someone else. Can't think of anyone... I know what about the moderator(s). Unfortunately there seems to be always one out there determined to bag and slag off just for the hell of it. They can expect short lives here.

This thread is about why the forum has gone quiet in recent times. The forum may go quiet at times. It has been so since its inception but it always comes to life again with sensible well thought out and researched material backing up opinions. IMO the first post to entitle this thread is the latest of many such examples. You don't see these posts nor the regular members who post in a positive and thoughtful manner whingeing where their posts have gone or why they are on enforced holidays. That must seem strange, in light of your closing offering cos the vast majority of them are Aussies.

[teecee]

http://www.harnesslink.com/www/Article.cgi?ID=104398

[HISGEN65]

Dan

I also take issue with this. In fact, you could not be more wrong. The commercial breeder doesnt gain anything from this. The whole purpose of the original report( some 18 months ago) was to try and stimulate the HOBBY breeder. Hobby breeders account for around 90% of all foals born and they have been leaving the industry in droves or simply not breeding. The breeders panel report made numerous suggestions as to how to possibly reverse this trend. These included creating a national mares credit scheme, more fillies and mares races, increased bonuses for fillies and mares winning their first race etc.

Unfortunately, HRA and the various state bodies decided to implement higher import fees without any detail as to how the resulting revenue is to be used other than to say for "breeding iniatives". This is very disappointing, as the panel members including myself, have now been attacked as having been the brains behind the import tax, when in fact all we proposed was measures to try and get more foals on the ground and create more opportunities for fillies and mares so that people are more likely to breed from them.

In my humble opinion one of the best ways to stimulate the hobby breeder is to instill some sort of above average hope that their offspring will sell & or have somewhere to race if they are just average units..this element of harness racing seems to have been eliminated...I have seen so many hobby breeders & local stallion owners lost to the sport through this point alone...When I first became a licencee there was an abundance of local grass roots racing catering for this level of breeding..ie you bred a horse with so much more scope of being something than it offers today.
It doesnt take rocket science to work out that declining genuine opportunitys,AT ALL LEVELS,of breeding something that can be more than dog meat = less breeding by the hobbyist..
Harvey made the point of nearly 90% of all foals born are from the "hobbyist" sector...yet it seems that due to declining energies & resources being directed to the grass roots level of our sport this 90% is being seemingly "squeezed" out

[aussiebreno]

Anybody looking for some light reading.
I located this thread. I haven't had time to read it over yet.
http://www.harnessracingforum.com/showthread.php?1045-The-ASBP-Report-How-can-they-be-serious-Bad-news-for-harness-owners/page2&highlight=import

[broncobrad]

Yes the original intent of the thread was to stimulate conversation and invite fresh faces and ideas. It has become a hotchpotch of views with a sprinkle of vitriol thrown in for good measure. Brenno, the 3 heat series will always be my preference for the ID, but then again if I had my way we would still be racing at Harold Park. Times change and I am moving right along with them. NSW really deserved one centre of excellence and what they are building out at Menangle is worthy of such praise.

In regard to the increased tax on imports, I am 100% in agreement with someone like Johnny Tapp who to me is the embodiment of the smaller owner/trainer who is appalled by the huge increases. These may be trifling numbers for the folks with big pockets but if the 90% of hobbyists as alluded to by Harvey is to try to help stimulate growth in that sector, well it just does not make sense. There are a couple of conversations going on here at the same time. Is the aim to invigorate the Oz breeding industry? Are the hobbyists really being helped with the impost of a grossly unfair tax (and how does that help them, let alone stop them from just walking away)? Is this designed to keep the breeders happy by selling for premium prices with stock being aimed at breeders bonus scheme races where very few owners ever reap the majority of prizemoney/bonus's? And again as Anne has mentioned where will all this money really go? How is this not just an attack on the NZ marketplace where there are plenty of horses at 'the right price' available for sale?

Surely if we are trying to save our racing stock from an early demise through lack of opportunity after they reach their mark at an early age/are not competitive in breeders races etc, surely the programming of events such as mares/fillies etc needs to be looked at. Just because the animal is slow shouldn't mean it still cannot be competitive amongst similarly graded horses/geldings/mares/fillies. Surely harness racing authorities need to shoulder some of the blame or atleast work towards a fairer solution for all. Condemning slow horses and the owners that foot the bills to extinction is not the way to go.

Yes Bailey, this is the Carbon Tax the industry did not need to have.

[mightymo]

Brad

You have certianly hit on something that has been a big issue - handicapping. There is no doubt that some handicappers have tried to be innovative in recent times and should be complemented for this. However, this is still a very big issue and one which results in a huge amount of odds on favourites which is very bad for turnover.

As for the import fee and yearling sales, my experience suggests that the vast majority of people who buy going horses are not the same people buying at the yearling sales. Arguably three of the biggest buyers of kiwi imports are Gary Hall, Greg Bond and Dean Braun. In the last 5 years I dont think they would have bought 3 yearlings between them.

I cant speak for HRA and the various states, but I really dont believe that the intention or a likely unintentional consequence is a increase in yearling sale prices. On the other hand, I can certainly see a link to the ready to run concept which finally seems to be gaining traction in Aust.

[mightymo]

I forgot to comment on how the import fees would help the hobby breeders.

In short, on its own it will do nothing. The breeders panel I was on NEVER recommended a hike. We recommended a national mares credits scheme(aimed at lower class mares to give them some value) and increased racing opportuinities for fillies and mares.

These initiatives require funding and my hope is that HRA and the states have increased the import fees in order to fund these ideas and stimulate the hobby breeding industry. If not, I will be bitterly disappointed and extremely frustrated.

I understand Andrew Kelly from HRA is going on In The Gig next week, so hopefully the picture will become clearer.

[aussiebreno]

Brad

You have certianly hit on something that has been a big issue - handicapping. There is no doubt that some handicappers have tried to be innovative in recent times and should be complemented for this. However, this is still a very big issue and one which results in a huge amount of odds on favourites which is very bad for turnover.

As for the import fee and yearling sales, my experience suggests that the vast majority of people who buy going horses are not the same people buying at the yearling sales. Arguably three of the biggest buyers of kiwi imports are Gary Hall, Greg Bond and Dean Braun. In the last 5 years I dont think they would have bought 3 yearlings between them.

I cant speak for HRA and the various states, but I really dont believe that the intention or a likely unintentional consequence is a increase in yearling sale prices. On the other hand, I can certainly see a link to the ready to run concept which finally seems to be gaining traction in Aust.
Pretty simple I would have thought.

Import fee = Higher priced NZ purchases
Higher priced NZ horses = less NZ purchases.
Less NZ purchases = less horses in Aust fields.
Less horses in Aust fields = need for more Aust horses in fields
Need for more Aust horses in fields = Higher demand for Aust horses
Higher demand for Aust horses = They cost more

It's either that or Less horses in Aust fields = reduce amount of races. OR Import fee = NZ owners prepared to sell horses for even less - thus crueling their industry. (Edit: And going by your twitter you seem to think thats ok - "I think kiwi agents should wear the import fee")

Take your pick.

[aussiebreno]

I forgot to comment on how the import fees would help the hobby breeders.

In short, on its own it will do nothing. The breeders panel I was on NEVER recommended a hike. We recommended a national mares credits scheme(aimed at lower class mares to give them some value) and increased racing opportuinities for fillies and mares.

These initiatives require funding and my hope is that HRA and the states have increased the import fees in order to fund these ideas and stimulate the hobby breeding industry. If not, I will be bitterly disappointed and extremely frustrated.

I understand Andrew Kelly from HRA is going on In The Gig next week, so hopefully the picture will become clearer.
But wasn't it for each win you got credits for a serving. Lower class mares don't have that many wins.
http://www.vicharnessbreeders.org.au/hbvic/index.cfm/news/hbvic-news/articles/september-2011-update/
That link says that you did recommend a hike. Sue for defamation Harvey.

[aussiebreno]

I forgot to comment on how the import fees would help the hobby breeders.

In short, on its own it will do nothing. The breeders panel I was on NEVER recommended a hike. We recommended a national mares credits scheme(aimed at lower class mares to give them some value) and increased racing opportuinities for fillies and mares.

These initiatives require funding and my hope is that HRA and the states have increased the import fees in order to fund these ideas and stimulate the hobby breeding industry. If not, I will be bitterly disappointed and extremely frustrated.

I understand Andrew Kelly from HRA is going on In The Gig next week, so hopefully the picture will become clearer.
Not too mention page 20 of your own report. If that isn't recommending a hike I don't know what is.

http://www.harness.org.au/hra/breeding/ASBP-Final-Report-July2011.pdf

[mightymo]

The panel's view was that it would have a cap on wins similar to what WA has done. We even discussed that you would get a certain amount of credits for qualifying, for each race start etc.

Top racemares dont need the credits, they will be bred from no matter what

we didnt say we should hike import fees. We put forward various funding proposals for our breeding iniatives. We then put forward a variety of funding options, of which import fee increases was one. If there are no new breeding iniatives, then the panels view is that there should be no fee hikes
n
That twitter feed was in response to an agent friend of mine( who has bought and sold NZ horses for me) bemoaning that he might not have a business - it was tongue in cheek.

You seem to be a know it all on all facets of our industry Brendan. Can you tell me please:

1. How many horses you currently own?
2. How many you currently breed?
3.How many you currently lease?
4. How many you have imported?

Perhaps you should do a bit more reading before making silly snide remarks...

[mightymo]

you make a huge amount of assumptions and I simply dont agree with them

How do you know it will mean higher prices? The seller will wear all or part of it. I suggest they will have no choice.

How does smaller fields force someone to buy a horse??


Pretty simple I would have thought.

Import fee = Higher priced NZ purchases
Higher priced NZ horses = less NZ purchases.
Less NZ purchases = less horses in Aust fields.
Less horses in Aust fields = need for more Aust horses in fields
Need for more Aust horses in fields = Higher demand for Aust horses
Higher demand for Aust horses = They cost more

It's either that or Less horses in Aust fields = reduce amount of races. OR Import fee = NZ owners prepared to sell horses for even less - thus crueling their industry. (Edit: And going by your twitter you seem to think thats ok - "I think kiwi agents should wear the import fee")

Take your pick.

[aussiebreno]

The panel's view was that it would have a cap on wins similar to what WA has done. We even discussed that you would get a certain amount of credits for qualifying, for each race start etc.

Top racemares dont need the credits, they will be bred from no matter what

we didnt say we should hike import fees. We put forward various funding proposals for our breeding iniatives. We then put forward a variety of funding options, of which import fee increases was one. If there are no new breeding iniatives, then the panels view is that there should be no fee hikes
n
That twitter feed was in response to an agent friend of mine( who has bought and sold NZ horses for me) bemoaning that he might not have a business - it was tongue in cheek.

You seem to be a know it all on all facets of our industry Brendan. Can you tell me please:

1. How many horses you currently own?
2. How many you currently breed?
3.How many you currently lease?
4. How many you have imported?

Perhaps you should do a bit more reading before making silly snide remarks...
Mare Gooden has 5 wins and Mare Ordinary has 1 win. Mare Ordinary might get a credit but she's still not much better off. Most of the credits will go to better performed mares (even with a cap). Mare Ordinary got 1 credit, whereas Mare Gooden got 5 credits. Instead of both having 0 credits Mare Gooden now has 4 more credits. The divide between rich and poor is now even greater. The aim of the scheme is quite well founded and I agree with, but in practice the policy falls down.
Also, if everybody has $100 to spend a fair service fee might be $100. But if everybody now has $100 + credits to spend a fair service fee could be $100 + credits. Is that going to be regulated or are stud managers laughing all the way to the bank? Meaning we are back at square 1.

Funding proposals for breeding initiatives, whatever Canberra political spin you want to put on it a possible reccomendation was increasing import fees, or 're-alignment' as your report says. I'm not even making judgement (good or bad), just stating that that's what been done.

I didn't know horse ownership was a pre requisite for commenting on economic factors. Perhaps you should give Wayne Swan a call and investigate whether his resume states horse ownership.




you make a huge amount of assumptions and I simply dont agree with them

How do you know it will mean higher prices? The seller will wear all or part of it. I suggest they will have no choice.

How does smaller fields force someone to buy a horse??
So seller will wear all or part of it. That's quite plausible, thus crueling NZ industry. Others have mentioned Free trade agreement, I don't know about that side of things so won't comment.
Smaller fields = more chance of winning = more demand to buy a horse. I also think this will increase demand to breed more foals as kiwi horses aren't coming over and providing competition. More foals being bred a good thing hey? More chance for the breed to race owners to get a winner! See, I'm actually pro import fee. I'm not having a go at you saying you are looking after self interest or looking after commercial breeders, I've just been saying what I think will happen - and not judging (too much judging anyway) good or bad until now. I still dont like how the breeding credits work though - which as you say import fee is only there to fund that.

[teecee]

The seller will wear all or part of it. I suggest they will have no choice.

The only certainty in this whole saga is that that wont happen.
This is an Australian tax. It is a blatantly illegal tax on an imported product which is protected from such by ANZCERTA. (Australia New Zealand Closer Economic Relations Trade Agreement.).
The next closest thing to a certainty is that this issue will end up in the courts or Governments intervention. HRA were warned of this likelihood when such a course of action was first mooted.
In the interim...
Import fee = Higher priced NZ purchases
Higher priced NZ horses = less NZ purchases.
Less NZ purchases = less horses in Aust fields.
Less horses in Aust fields = need for more Aust horses in fields
Need for more Aust horses in fields = Higher demand for Aust horses
Higher demand for Aust horses = They cost more

No matter what face or shade you apply to it, this market forces analysis of Brenno's is the most obvious scenario should this tax stand IMO. It is as simple as that.

[mightymo]

The finer details of a broodmare credit scheme would need to be worked out. There are all sorts of things that can or cant be done. However, based on what Im hearing on the street, not all are in favour of a national scheme. It appears the various states all have different ideas(surprise, surprise) on how to best use any funds. Some want a broodmare scheme, some want to extra win bonuses, some want to create new race series for fillies/mares.

My philosophy in all of this has been that the current system is not working and so we need change. Is the changes we recommended going to turnaround the breeding industry? I hope it may be a start, but I would rather have tried and got it wrong, rather than not try at all.

[Mitch]

The increased import fee is nothing more than a redistribution tax which penalises those who have found a successful way to make a profit. HRA have recognised this and in turn chosen the easy option to increase the fee rather than deal with the root cause. It is also embarrassing & poor leadership to make such a significant change without even providing a sufficient level of transparency as to how the funds will be redistributed. Not good enough.

Brad, In regards to some of the forums more regular contributors missing in action, I ran into Jaimie at the Sydney APG sale and he mentioned to me on the quiet that he & Dot had struck up a new found friendship & spent most of their spare time going for Gelato on Norton St! Maybe they no longer have time to post????:p:p:p

[broncobrad]

Lol Mitch, I hope Mrs VVV is oblivious to this 'too weird to be true' tryst.

Good to see your bloke break back in to the winners circle at Newcastle the other week Mitch. Probably not what you were aiming for, but a wins a win. Has Muscat found the key to him?

[Mitch]

Thanks Brad.

He has pretty much had to learn how to be a racehorse again. Everything he did as a 2yo was on raw ability. The worst thing that happened was him winning his first trial back because it sucked us in to thinking he might come back pretty good. We soon learnt that wasn't the case & that the horse wasn't up to Menangle class. Michael is placing him really well and has him fit & happy. Its just a great thrill to have him back at the races.