Sam Natis Comments on Sky Sports Radio

[Pena]

I heard Sam Nati on the radio today and I think his comments are at best laughable.

Sam does not think a ridiculous $2200 on importing New Zealand horses is having an impact on field sizes.

Sam there are 26 of 59 horses at Menagle on Saturday night that are New Zealand bred.

If you are looking to buy a horse in the $10-$20k bracket fron NZ and that probably constitues 90% of horses for sale depending on your agent this is a massive impost.

If Sam really does not believe that it is having an imact think again. Of course it will not affect the Halls and McCarthys as they are paying huge $ but it is going to have an impact on your bread and butter every week horses.

Why don't we want to import Kiwi horses to Australia it has been working up until now.

Sam, if you really want to encourage people to spend locally, refund all the import fees to the people that have paid them as breeding bonuses to spend locally. Putting some big race on that only one person wins will have zero impact on encouraging people to spend money on the breeding inductry.

If harness racing really wants to encourage participation beyond its current boundaries importing tried horses is the best way possible. New participants do not want a horse running in 3 years time they want it to happen now. Kiwi horses fill this neice so Sam please get back to reality and stop trying to punish participants.

[Sofoulis]

I could not agree more with this post.

In my view, this is a 'tax' and contravenes the intention of the free trade arrangements between NZ and Australia.

[Pena]

Adam,

You obviously don't mind paying for the cost of someone completing the transfer but the price for the 5yo+ mare should be the maximum charge. ($275)

The joke is that the authorities are obviously happy for the broodmares to be pinched from NZ as the import fee is low, but they want the horses bred in Australia. I will give the authorities a heads up. New Zealand will always be a better and cheaper place to bred and rare horses. If Harness racing does not remove this ridiculous burden I shudder to think how weak our fields will be in 2 years.

[gutwagon]

We have had this argument many times on this site. I like the fee. I breed my own horses so I think the fee is good. You buy or sell horses from NZ so you don't like the fee.
In my opinion all the NZ imports are killing our breeding industry, if it continues we will only be able to get horses from NZ. How can that be good. Our state bodies have to protect our industry not NZ's.
If you don't like the fee, buy Australian horses, simple as that. Or move to NZ and race your horses there! Oh what they don't have enough prize money ! Tuff luck !
I know people wont like my opinion just like I don't like yours . But it's a free country so bring on the hate !

[Messenger]

Rick, did you read all Jack's OP? What do you think of the idea of continuing the fee but having it recoverable if the importer also breeds or buys aussie within 12 months.

[Triple V]

We have had this argument many times on this site. I like the fee. I breed my own horses so I think the fee is good. You buy or sell horses from NZ so you don't like the fee.
In my opinion all the NZ imports are killing our breeding industry, if it continues we will only be able to get horses from NZ. How can that be good. Our state bodies have to protect our industry not NZ's.
If you don't like the fee, buy Australian horses, simple as that. Or move to NZ and race your horses there! Oh what they don't have enough prize money ! Tuff luck !
I know people wont like my opinion just like I don't like yours . But it's a free country so bring on the hate !

[VVV] Well said Rick.
I fully support Sam's comments, I applaud them.
Furthermore I fully support the new import fees & I applaud their introduction.
Prior to their introduction the opponents of these fees repeatedly sought to paint them as an imposition upon the going horse buyers here in Australia...however in reality that is simply not the case.
Higher fees will ultimately come out of the seller's end of the deal, not the buyers end.
Instead of $X the Kiwis will get $X-.
It is all rather disingenuous for the no arguement to be suggesting otherwise.
It's a case of shut the gate the horse has bolted, regardless of which side of the fence anyone finds themself on. The fees are now in place there they shall remain. Three Cheers for all those involved in their introduction.

[Danno]

G'day Rick,
I think differently to yourself ,but not into the "hate" stuff, I think the group who will suffer most from this impost on imports is the poor old bloody owner ( there are a few on this forum now going ho f..ing hum here he goes again).. BUT... and I will continue to beat this drum for as long as it takes to get REAL change.

The import fee is designed to make the australian bred product more attractive and use the funds to support races for Australian bred stock...analysis says....support local breeders! BOOM,SHOCK,HORROR,!!!!!!!! the ( many and varied) administartors of our silly game have been encouraged, etc to do this very same thing via many mediums ( think Sires Stakes ala breeders crown, think Bathurst Gold Crown, Australian Pacing Gold) this has only succeeded in causing owners to pay over odds prices for yearlings and young stock......get inadequate returns and subsequently leave the game dissillusioned and unfulfilled.

I do not agree with the import fee in principle ( Triple will love this) as I do honestly believe in (truly) free markets and the fact that the long suffering owners are slugged,once again, even more in order to assist the breeders ( can I say at this point for those that do not know, I am a HOBBY breeder,owner,trainer,driver and reluctant farrier) as in my opinion it simply makes our game more unattractive, and that is the key to my personal perspective,if it's not good for the game, it's not good in my opinion.

Cheers,
Dan

[Danno]

Whilst I was writing that post, Jamie has thrown his "two bobs worth" in and can I ask you Triple? how are you so sure the vendor will cover/absorb the additional cost? Mate you put a few XXX's and $$$ in there but can you support your statements with fact.

Cheers,
Dan

[gutwagon]

Nz breeders are producing more horses than their local industry needs. Aust breeders are not producing enough horses.
So we either continue to bring in thousands of NZ horses to the great benefit of NZ breeders or we encourage Aust breeders to breed more horses.
I would like to keep the money in Australia and see a lot more done to help Australian breeders.
Sure some owners want a quick return so they buy going horses from NZ at often over inflated prises . So the Aust studmasters and breeders miss out.
There still seem to be plenty of NZ horses coming each year so the fee is not having much effect. The amount of horses being bred in Aust is dropping every year and the amount of stallions standing at stud keeps dropping . So you do the maths.

[aussiebreno]

Nz breeders are producing more horses than their local industry needs. Aust breeders are not producing enough horses.
So we either continue to bring in thousands of NZ horses to the great benefit of NZ breeders or we encourage Aust breeders to breed more horses.
I would like to keep the money in Australia and see a lot more done to help Australian breeders.
Sure some owners want a quick return so they buy going horses from NZ at often over inflated prises . So the Aust studmasters and breeders miss out.
There still seem to be plenty of NZ horses coming each year so the fee is not having much effect. The amount of horses being bred in Aust is dropping every year and the amount of stallions standing at stud keeps dropping . So you do the maths.
The higher fee only came into effect a few months ago though.

[mango]

Drop in mare's being bred every year - Due to higher cost's involved

Stallion number's dropping - there are a low percentage of stallion's that are fully booked so there's enough to select from if you want to breed.

Australian studmasters miss out - a lot of our imports are by Aussie based stallion's.

Kiwi horses - we need full fields for turnover and I believe we need to keep them coming for this reason.

At the present time there are so many mare's that people are trying to off load as they have know interest in breeding so number's will keep falling, there is know quick fix to this problem.

Buying going horses - kiwi's are seller's and will sell anything and everything where Aussie's tend to hold onto there horses.

[Sofoulis]

This fee is to recover the administration cost of transferring the horses (per the HRA announcement and my previous discussion with HRA when this was released):
"Whilst the import fee is attached to the administrative service provided for the clearance it is anticipated that additional funds raised will be utilised with initiatives to support the Australian breeding industry."

I am wondering if the Australian breeders could assist me with breeding someone to work at HRA - because if it costs them $2,200 in administration fees to transfer these horses, I can only imagine what the hourly wage is of the administration staff.

The reasons that HRA said this is because, in my view, if they did not, they would be in contravention of the free trade arrangements between Aus and NZ:

"Free trade is a policy by which a government does not discriminate against imports or interfere with exports by applying tariffs (to imports) or subsidies (to exports) or quotas."
"Australia and NZ have had a free trade agreement in place since 1983."
(thanks Wikipedia).

I question whether this will actually help the local breeding industry:
- Scenario 1: less imports, less racing, less chances for locally bred horses to race and earn
- Scenario 2: cheaper imports, lower quality racing, lower quality breeding requirements in Australia to be competitive, less people interest in the product, less racing, less chances for locally bred horses to race and earn
- Scenario 3: cheaper imports, lower quality racing, less people interested in the product, less racing, less chances for locally bred horses to race and earn
- Scenario 4: only expensive NZ imports (as fee is immaterial), easier base racing, lower quality breeding in Australia to win base races, high-staked races won by NZ horses........
(many other scenarios)

I do see some merit in Jack's idea.

Contrary to what Sam says, this has impacted my buying decisions over the past 5 months and will continue to (and it has not encouraged me to buy more local horses, my mix of local/NZ horses is the same).

[Boydy]

As an owner over the last 6 months I have been involved in purchase of 4 NZers, 1 before the fee increase and 3 subsequent. One of them was a 5yo mare and the two others were 4yo mares, infact I paid the $1650 for a transfer this morning. With these horses there have been 4 new owners introduced to the industry that otherwise would not have been. I agree with Jack that in particular people that have not been exposed to harness racing, buying up and going horses and syndicating them is the only way to go. Trying to buy Australian horses at a reasonable price is almost impossible. The kiwis definitely seem more willing to sell at a reasonable price. I have personally been involved with the breeding of 3 horses (2 raced, 1 a yearling) and to be honest it is a very long and expensive process and for all the costs the first two anyway have been disappointing.

At present I am a bit of a quandry as the 2 mares that have raced in Australia, one is a half sister to a New Zealand cup winner and the other is by far the fastest horse I have ever owned. I really would like to bred with them but the reality by the time the offspring are ready to race it will be 3-4 years and $35k later. It alot of expense and time to be potentially disappointed. If I buy an up and going horse the horse will be racing with a month.

I think Jacks idea is a great one with regards the person paying the fee gets the credit to spend on breeding etc in Australia. That way the person actually spending the money on horses gets rewarded. It would make my decision with regards breeding easy to make. However I think the biggest issue with breeding in general is stallion fees. I know the studs will say that people are willing to pay the $12k + for the Mach 3, Bettors and Art Majors etc, but considering the prizemoney and the cost of getting a horse to the races I know for sure this is turning people of breeding their own horses.

Adam, maybe we need to take out a group action against HRA as they are in breech of the free trade agreement.

I also heard Sam Nati talking about the meeting last week and he made mention of last Saturday night having nearly all full fields because of the Where Horses Fly Finals. My understanding is this is funded by Menangle not HRNSW so all credit should go to John Dumesny and his team get credit for that.

I can say that the import fee has definitely affected my decision making process and at least one additional purchase has been stopped because of the import fee.

[gutwagon]

So Boydy, your plan is to keep taking money from the Australian industry and send it to NZ !
You don't have to send your mares to the most expensive stallions. There are plenty of good ones under $5000 around.
I'm glad to hear that the fee stoped at least one horse coming.

[Boydy]

Rick, by buying horses and bringing them to Australia I am actually contributing to the Australian industry.

When I pay my $1000 a month training fees I am contributing to a whole raft of people who depend on me to continue their employment in the industry. Not to mention everytime my horses race people invest money on them and this is the main contributor to the harness racing industry. The fields at Menangle would have looked a little bare if only the 33 Australian bred horses were able to compete. The betting turnover would have been a little poor with 7 races with 5 starters in each.

Whats next impose a import fee on imported semen to protect local breeders. Not to mention the majority of the leading sires in this country are owned by syndicates that mostly live overseas. Should we also place a fee on the use of these foreign owned stallions?

The rationale that by buying a horse from overseas is taking anything away from the Australian industry is just plain wrong and is propaganda from the local breeding industry. Especially when you have breeding conglomerates like Alabar that having stallions on either side of the ditch who truly knows where the money is going anyway.

[mightymo]

I also really likes Jack's idea of the import fee being able to be used against service fees or purchasing a yearling. I think its got a lot of merit

[gutwagon]

Boydy, as I said in my first post, people that buy or sell NZ horses wont like the fee. We would still get full fields without the NZ horses, there are usually many horses that miss out on each race. And it would encourage people to buy and breed more horses in Australia. If you took away the NZ horses overnight then we would struggle for a few years, but nobody is suggesting that. We just want to slow them down a bit and let the Australian industry recover.
If you spend $50,000 on an NZ horse then that's $50,000 going to NZ breeders and studmasters . That's money gone from the Australian industry. So you think that if people couldn't buy NZ horses they wouldn't buy any horses ! I find that hard to believe.
In my experience the cheapest way to get involved in the sport is to breed your own horses, yes it involves patience and some homework but its the cheapest way.

[gutwagon]

I find it strange that people aren't complaining about all those races at Menangle that are restricted to horses that are trained by NSW trainers within 100klm of Menangle. And must have been trained by them for 28 days prior to the race. This is deliberately aimed at keeping the money in the state. I wish HRV would bring in similar races to keep interstate horses away.

[Messenger]

Boydy, as I said in my first post, people that buy or sell NZ horses wont like the fee. We would still get full fields without the NZ horses, there are usually many horses that miss out on each race. And it would encourage people to buy and breed more horses in Australia. If you took away the NZ horses overnight then we would struggle for a few years, but nobody is suggesting that. We just want to slow them down a bit and let the Australian industry recover.
If you spend $50,000 on an NZ horse then that's $50,000 going to NZ breeders and studmasters . That's money gone from the Australian industry. So you think that if people couldn't buy NZ horses they wouldn't buy any horses ! I find that hard to believe.
In my experience the cheapest way to get involved in the sport is to breed your own horses, yes it involves patience and some homework but its the cheapest way.

I won't argue whether it is the cheapest I will just point out that it is the least likely way to get a horse to race. It would also have to be a syndicator's worst job - Roll up, Roll up people, Give me your money for a couple of years and you MIGHT get a horse to race!

[Boydy]

Rick, as I have said previously I have bred horses in the past and the reality is most people do not have the luxury of keeping a couple of horses in the back paddock. I personally live a couple of kilometres from Harold Park and my only way of breeding is to keep the horses at a stud. The average cost for a broodmare is $250 per month or $3000 per year. For example the first mare I bred, slipped the foal year one, year two in foal, year 3 did not put the mare back in foal to see how the first one developed, year 4 back into foal. The reality was the first foal cost me $9000 and this did not include the service fee (approx $5000 from memory), foaling fee, transport, insemination fee etc etc etc. So the yearling probably cost me about $20k before breaking in, pretraining etc.

From my perspective this is not a cheap way to do it. Considering the 4 horses I have bought were between $NZ9-12k plus $5k transport this is a much more economical way for me to get my harness racing fix.

The question is, are all the breeders going to purchase more broodmares and put them into foal this year because of this import fee? It will be interesting to see but I doubt it but if you want to stop the horses from NZ you need to replace them with something.

As for VVV saying that buyers will demand a drop in the price due to the fee I think the reverse happens now when trying to buy a horse in Australia. If you have a horse with any ability, remembering a horse getting trained in Australia needs to win a minimum of $14k a season just to pay the bills, the seller factors in the kiwi alternmative will cost $7k (Transport + import fee) the prices are hugely inflated. Or maybe people really don't want to sell the horse locally to show that another trainer can improve it.

I think harness racing really nedds to look at the big picture and look at places like Hong Kong. Arguably the greatest racing indusrty in the world or definitely the most profitable. The last thing on their mind is the local bredding industry. Try to get the best horses and competitive racing and in turn the people and the money comes. 40 years ago when they were racing their ponies around a paddock who would have thought?

For the hobby breeder like myself, for every one that is successful one there are 20 that fail and give up.

As I said before I personally do not think that the import fee will have any impact on the numbers of horse bred, but it will definitely have an impact on the numbers of horses available to race in Australia. The nominations for next Tuesdays meeting that I saw this week were pathetic.

As for the 100km rule race for Menangle, Rick I think they are a fantastic idea. I really think HRNSW should consider other race conditions in an attempt to lure horses that do not target Menangle. I have seen races in NZ with special conditions like 5yo+ with 1-3 wins with heats and finals worth good money (say $15k) are a great idea to try and get a return for battling owners. I still can't believe that every state in Australia and NZ regularly run claimers and we can't get them going with the result these older horses being shipped interstate and effectively robbing our local pool of horses.

Anything that discourages people from getting involved in harness racing and increasing costs for owners is at the detriment of the sport. Don't even get me started on the $77 scratching fee for horse as this is ridiculous.

[Messenger]

What is the idea of the 100k races? Attending quite a few meetings in the Western district this year - Stawell, Horsham, Hamilton, Charlton; I have noticed that 80% of the horses are Western district horses anyway and they would be winning 80% of the races. I imagine for MilCrampa the figure could be higher and the last thing you would be wanting to do is discourage entries from further afield.

[Gilgamesh]

Hi Gutwagon, your thoughts in here have inspired me to sign up and have my two cents! Firstly do you own a car, have a shirt on your back, knives and forks in your kitchen, shoes on your feet, I'm going to assume you do. The maths would have it that at least 75% of these producs aren't from Australia. Why, because the Australian product is largely of an inferior quality or grosely over priced. Aren't you lucky though that you are not forced into buying those poor quality products or paying more for decent standard stuff.

If the Australian breeder wants Australian owners to buy Australian horses the it's pretty simple, breed better horses!

In WA at the moment we are having quite a few West bred only races. I'm a reasonanble punter, put a lot of effort into my form targeting how a race will be run and would have a reasonable turnover on most friday nights. When it comes to the Westbred races I leave them the hell alone, the are by and large awful! If i'm not punting I'll assume others aren';t punting as well, How is that good for the breeder remembering we get our money from the punting dollar, if there's no prize money there's no owners and if there's no owners there's no breeders. If Jo blogs is a random bloke who likes a punt but doesn't actualy follow Harness comes along on a friday night and the best form in a race is 0, 4, 7 beaten 22m last start what is he going to think.

I'm around the 30 yr mark, a lot of my mates love a bet. I could count on one hand the number that even know who won the inters let alone the last race at GP. People just do not follow the sport anymore. The last thing we want to do is discourage new people from getting into the sport, again this is to the detrament of the breeder. I have a group of mates who have looked into owning in all codes, there is no way I could talk them into going to the sales and forking out money for a young horse they have no link to that may never make the track, if it flopped I would feel awful and we'd lose them forever. In the end I actually joined with them and we purchased a ready to run dog because it was economically viable. She had her share of ability and all the litter ended up doing pretty well. Unfortunately she broke down though but because the boys become a bit attached to her and we had a little kitty from prize money we kept her and bred from her, racing on one of her next bitches and selling the others to new owners. See where im going. We have so much competion from the dogs I think this is where we are really losing it but thats another issue. If I was able to find a decent ready to run mare I could probably get them involved now and who knows we may breed from her but if the price is to high or the prospects are to risky then people will just look at other options.

Anyhow I would like to say more but i'm using a keyboard I dont understand in a hostel on the way to Sweden to see some high standard trotting fgor my birthday. I knoiw my thoughts are far different from yours but I would hope we both want the same thing, our favoured past time to flurish not flounder, in my mind the more restrictions we place on the industry the worse it will be.


Nz breeders are producing more horses than their local industry needs. Aust breeders are not producing enough horses.
So we either continue to bring in thousands of NZ horses to the great benefit of NZ breeders or we encourage Aust breeders to breed more horses.
I would like to keep the money in Australia and see a lot more done to help Australian breeders.
Sure some owners want a quick return so they buy going horses from NZ at often over inflated prises . So the Aust studmasters and breeders miss out.
There still seem to be plenty of NZ horses coming each year so the fee is not having much effect. The amount of horses being bred in Aust is dropping every year and the amount of stallions standing at stud keeps dropping . So you do the maths.

[Lethal]

Curiously the powers that the NSWHRC had over HRNSW caused the dramatic decline in participants in NSW , other than those that chose to race at their club of choice. The dramatic rural participation has resulted in an industry in deep recession due to the closure of regional meetings,(I disclose here that we won a Sires Stakes Race at Muswellbrook; you can't do that today) As of we don't see the point in breeding in to an industry that will not survive outside of an arc centrally in Vic, which will include the Riverina and maybe SA. The rest of us are ST.....

[Triple V]

Remember the Golden Years? Those balmy Summer nights when the NSWSS Finals went by in slashing 2:12.5 miles & yourself & Vern Norgard battled it out head to head for the NSW Trainers Premiership Wooden Spoon? My heart skips a beat at the mere thought of it all. Those were the days eh?

[Boydy]

Jaimie would love to see you actually add something to this discussion instead of demeaning other people that are expressing their opinions.

As a breeder and supporter of import fee how many more horses are Triple V going to breed this year, as opposed to last year? As I am sure that you must see a great oppurtunity gifted to yourself by HRA by imposing this new fee to encourage Australian breeders to fill the void created by discouraging people to import horse from New Zealand. Would also love to know if we should impose the fee on the service fees of foreign owned stallions to encourage people to breed to Australian owned stallions to keep the money in Australia.

[Lethal]

Well I'm gutted, however the best that we can do is offer a quote from greater literary talent than any of us.
Envy is a resentment which "occurs when someone lacks another's quality, achievement or possessions and wishes that the other lacked it"

[gutwagon]

Hi Gilgamesh, I'm glad That I inspired you, always good to have more people getting involved. Even if you don't agree with me !
I get your point about buying imports, but just look what that has done to our local manufactoring industry. It's almost gone !
The reason that your WA bred races are so weak is that your local breeding industry is almost dead. This is the very reason that I want to support the VIC industry, I don't want it to end up like yours.
There is a place for NZ imports but there needs to be a balance.
You want us to breed better horses. Well look at WA, you need better stallions but if you cant get good numbers of mares then you wont get the stallions.
As for Australian products being of poor quality I just don't agree. They are more expensive yes but you get what you pay for.

[Triple V]

Well I'm gutted, however the best that we can do is offer a quote from greater literary talent than any of us.
Envy is a resentment which "occurs when someone lacks another's quality, achievement or possessions and wishes that the other lacked it"

[VVV] Lee, you're a broken record mate.
All you have ever done for as long as I can remember is bag the Industry and lay the reasons for your own lack of success at the feet of certain Race Clubs, various members of National & State based Industry Officialdom, certain other participants etc. Over the years you've lined up on anyone & everyone...that, as opposed to looking a lot closer to home. You've turned obfuscation into an Art Form. If it was raining Gold Bars you would complain about the weather.

[Triple V]

jaimie would love to see you actually add something to this discussion instead of demeaning other people that are expressing their opinions.

[vvv] that wasn't an opinion from Lee. I thought that was a whinge.

As a breeder and supporter of import fee how many more horses are triple v going to breed this year, as opposed to last year?

[vvv] 5 this time around as opposed to 2 last year. Over the winter we moved an older mare on & we lost one. Have replaced one of them already & in the process of securing another one. If the right one comes along maybe another one after that as well.

As i am sure that you must see a great oppurtunity gifted to yourself by hra by imposing this new fee to encourage australian breeders to fill the void created by discouraging people to import horse from new zealand.

[vvv] gifted is not a term i'd use. Long over-due, warmly welcomed, essential, vital are more in keeping with my view of hra's import fee changes. The australian industry has bled out its arse to the benefit of the nz industry for more years than i care to remember. This move has decisively set about redressing that crippling imbalance & so from the rooftops i cheer & applaude hra's andrew kelly, geoff want & co.

Would also love to know if we should impose the fee on the service fees of foreign owned stallions to encourage people to breed to australian owned stallions to keep the money in australia.

[vvv] that's fuzzy logic adam. Why on one hand would we seek impose import fees on the nz bred product in order to better the lot of australian breeders...only to turn around & indirectly slug them by way of your suggested increased costs being passed on to aus breeders by studs/stallion syndicates increasing their service fees?
Without going into the nitty gritty of the various commercial & financial arrangements that i know of, you'd be very surprised as to who actually owns what here in aus, how much (esp. Sth hemisphere rights % wise) of the sires they stand they own and exactly how much of the service $$$ remains here in australia & in the southern hemisphere in general.
For example, both alabar & their aus partners/investors & pepper tree & their aus partners/investors have some major financial involvements, committments & straight out ownerships in both the sthn hemisphere rights of many of the sires they stand and in some cases the entirity of the horses they stand. That $$$ stays right here.
In terms of the entirity of the $$$ remaining here in australia, i have long been in favour of the australian standardbred breeding industry following the tb industry's lead and looking much, much closer to home for our sire prospects...however until such time as the industry gets its head out of its arse and puts on $$$$big$$$$ 3yo races over the mile that would afford our local bred colts the opportunity to showcase their abilities in a setting that is as comparable as can possibly be to their north american counterparts, the imported product will always have the edge, if for no other reason that the stats/marketability angle alone. I think this goes hand in hand with what you're suggesting. A few more classic garrys, christian cullens & courage under fires would be pretty damned good, imo. With each year that passes i think we're getting closer & closer to this. Take harvey's colt, bling it on for example. If he goes on this season as a 3yo & perhaps beyond, why wouldn't local breeders line up for him? I digress a bit but i'm sure you get where i am coming from there. It's all related.



vvv

[Lethal]

VVV
Methinks you may be a little confused, however I suggest you consult Wiki re: the meaning of "irony"

[Triple V]

C'mon now Lee. You have given yourself up quite some time ago in this thread by way of bemoaning the cessation of NSWSS Racing at Muswellbrook. The only way anyone may seek to surpass such a comment is if they happen to come out in support of a return to racing on grass around that old & infinitely deplorable track out at Richmond.
By far & away THE BIGGEST LEAPS FORWARD the NSW Industry has taken in my lifetime encompass HRNSW ditching the (in terms of the Standardbred Breed) genetically destructive NSW Sires Stakes scheme, its subsequent replacement by a Mares Based System in the shape of The NSW Breeders Challenge, the rationalisation/closure of a number of self-evidently prehistoric/tin pot tracks that came with upkeep bills which were costing the Industry a fortune and last but by no means least the visionary move of the NSWHRC to sell off & close Harold Park in favour of that wonderful, world class facility at Menangle.

[doinmabest]

Jaimie, I loved the old grass track racing.....We may well see a return to it (not Richmond) but elsewhere down the track ....

[broncobrad]

Will also plead guilty to that Fred...they seem to do it so well in NZ and attract large crowds in the process.

Of course, there can be the occasional hiccough though! http://www.stuff.co.nz/waikato-times/news/6532107/Harness-race-comes-to-shuddering-halt

The ensuing rolling start wasn't too bad either.

[broncobrad]

And of course this, just today announced for Griffith http://www.areanews.com.au/story/1223253/grass-is-greener-for-our-trots/

Could be the start of a revolution???

There are a few boxes to tick before it goes ahead but who knows?

[doinmabest]

Well There You Go....

[Boydy]

Really do not think that the latest initatives will do a much to stimulate the industry.

I really do not understand the logic of only rewarding people that did not breed with their mare last year. I personally did not, but if you were 50/50 about putting a mare back in foal then I think you would no say why bother. Surely this should be given to all breeders not just new breeders thic season.

I persoanlly do not like the idea of having to use a NSW based stallion to be eligble. There are 40 odd stallions listed on the breeding website, but if the mare is based and served and domiciled in NSW I cannot see why the stallion can be from anywhere in Australia. If we are trying to improve the horse quality in NSW surely the stallion that you see is most compatible with your mares bloodlines should be acceptable. I can see a possible false increase in foals numbers in NSW on the card. There are numerous stallions with service fees under $500 in NSW. There could be a substantial increase in mares being put into foal to these stallions and this will do nothing for the quality of horses in NSW.

As for the $500 vs the sustaining payments, why not just have the initiative bred in NSW no payments to be eligble for the scheme. Therefore there will be no rorting the payment or any administartion of this scheme. It is simple have a NSW bred foad and you are eligble.

[Boydy]

Jaimie, I was interested that you brought up 3 local sires Classic Garry (1978), Courage Under Fire and Christian Cullen both Kiwis. I also am personally becoming a big fan of Elsu also I never really thought I would as well as horses like Attorney General who has done a super job given his oppurtunities. Considering Classic Garry was foaled 35 years ago its a long time since we have had a dominant or even high quality Australian sire. I have always had a soft spot for The Unicorn (NZ bred but Aust based) and I really like Saab as a sire given his limited oppurtunities. I am not really sure in the short term if we will have a dominant Australian bred sire. A horse like For a REason that was a very fast and well bred son of Art Major had hardly any oppurtunities and has been put back into work.

I refer to my comments above. How do you make the NSW breeding industry the best. The initiatives that have just been announced in my opinion will do little to change the numbers of foals bred and will certainly not encourage the breeding of the best quality foals.