Fremantle Cup

[Mighty Atom]

Forget The SA Cup,The Bendigo Cup the beyond the black stump pacing cup the biggest Cup on the weekend was the Fremantle Pacing Cup. A brilliant exhibition of speed and endurance on the part of I'm Victorious with master reinsman Mr G.Hall Jnr winning another G1. Didn't Washakie feel the heat? The lack of comments is typical of this forum.

[Smoken]

I was to pre occupied focusing on the S.A Cup with Trigger being in it.
That was a great tough win by IV! Looking forward to seeing IV race against ITMQ in the autumn season.
Will IV head across to the East, for any of the feature racing?

[Richard prior]

I reckon he will Smoken and he'll be a tougher competitor next time. It was by far the best Cup race over the weekend and a great drive by Junior.

[Maorisidol]

Forget The SA Cup,The Bendigo Cup the beyond the black stump pacing cup the biggest Cup on the weekend was the Fremantle Pacing Cup. A brilliant exhibition of speed and endurance on the part of I'm Victorious with master reinsman Mr G.Hall Jnr winning another G1. Didn't Washakie feel the heat? The lack of comments is typical of this forum.
I can only guess Rod, but I reckon 90% of people on this forum are in the eastern states and based on the time difference the Freo Cup was pretty much on at midnite!!! Maybe part of the reason???
Great run I'm Victorious good to see that success for his Trainer, well done.
Look out Rod, now here comes the "however"!!!!!
Pole horse leads unchallenged, IV goes to death, Johnny McCarthy thinks he's driving Pure Steel or a Washakie of 2-3 yrs ago and sits 3wide outside IV for last 900-1000... IV and leader have a small battle, IV too good.
Now let's compare to the pre race build up of a horse lookin to win the same Group 1race for the 5th time to equal the great Gammalites record and this horse is now 11years old...
He runs in the death and gets to the lead but locks wheels around the turn (unscripted drama!!!) fights back, gains a little ground on new leader in straight, the horse he battled with all the way down the straight with in the same race last year (de jevu) but goes down by just a head. Now there's a race and it was a Group 1 too!

[Richard prior]

Yes Ash, Great theatre surrounding Smoken Up's attempt to win his 5th SA Cup and it's a pity he didn't, No disrespect to Carribean Blaster. I sat up and watched the Fremantle Cup and thoroughly enjoyed it. Im Victorious put in an effort Trigger would have been proud of sitting parked for the last 1600 or 1700 before taking out the Cup in a real gutsy effort. Not sure what John McCarthy was thinking popping out way to early on Washakie.

[Mighty Atom]

Yes, it was a great race the SA cup and would love to have seen Trigger win it ; just unfortunate that he had trouble with the turns both at Horsham and Globe Derby at that vital moment where you can't afford to give away an inch. Not taking anything away from Caribbean Blaster, a fitting reward for his close second to SU last year. South Australia's night of pacing and being great supporters of Lance Justice and Greg Sugars I'm sure they had a great night.

[Chariots]

I'm Victorious 1:56:5 over2536m Carribean Blaster 1:57.7 over 2230m. Not difficult to see the better class of race.

[Maorisidol]

I'm Victorious 1:56:5 over2536m Carribean Blaster 1:57.7 over 2230m. Not difficult to see the better class of race.

I hear what u r saying Ray, but times don't determine the "class" of a race, or that it was a better race to watch.
If an MO at Menangle run a mile in 1:52 and the FFA that night run 1:53.1 is the MO a better class race?

[littlelenny]

Top race big win by IV and jnr. So many sit sprinters coming through the ranks these days good to see IV show his versatility and he proved too tough.

Impressive win and top training effort by Michael Brennan who looks to be heading towards some exciting times he just needs to draw a decent barrier on his next visit to the east.

[Viv Strangman]

What was surprising from this side of the Tasman is the lack of eastern states horses lining up when the stake is $250,000. With all due respect to I'm Victorious, he shouldn't frighten anyone who has watched him race out of W.A. He hasn't shown anything in a handful of starts in the east /Nz than would suggest he is a superstar. A bit different on his own patch for sure but with such a great stake the club must be disappointed with the lack of eastern states intrest.

[Mighty Atom]

I hear what u r saying Ray, but times don't determine the "class" of a race, or that it was a better race to watch.
If an MO at Menangle run a mile in 1:52 and the FFA that night run 1:53.1 is the MO a better class race?

The problem is Ash that the SA Cup was the same as last year - a two horse race with the same result, except reversed - and the same as last year the rest of the field could hardly be called G1 horses. The Fremantle Cup had 3 horses that would not be regarded as G1 horses. Should the SA Cup with a 125 thousand stake be a Group 1 race just because it is the states premier race? - debatable. Two tracks, same circumference but the speed of the horses show which was the more exciting race. To answer your question if an MO ran a 1: 52 mile and a FFA a 1: 53, I would regard the FFA a rather disappointing race. It appears it's all about speed these days looking at the number of mile races at Menangle and Albion Park, not only mile races but all distances.

[Mighty Atom]

What was surprising from this side of the Tasman is the lack of eastern states horses lining up when the stake is $250,000. With all due respect to I'm Victorious, he shouldn't frighten anyone who has watched him race out of W.A. He hasn't shown anything in a handful of starts in the east /Nz than would suggest he is a superstar. A bit different on his own patch for sure but with such a great stake the club must be disappointed with the lack of eastern states intrest.

Hello Viv, without sounding like a needle stuck in the groove I've been saying this for a long time. Not only a 250,000 dollar race but closely followed by a $400,000 dollar race. It's a long way to travel west with the prospects of searing temperatures this time of the year and to be honest I would have second thoughts if I was a trainer on the east coast. Horses have to do it all the time when travelling from here. Bad barriers and average driving is primarily why you haven't seen the best of I'm Victorious.

[ifyousayso]

very very good win by Victorious.
been keeping a very close eye on him since chariots last year after getting no luck and climbing all over them for clear running.
unlucky in the chariots, bad draw in the MM this year, droppped in the Vic Cup.
really think if he gets a nice draw, and a race with some distance (really seems to relish the longer distances) he will be a very hard horse to beat in the future.
there is always alot of bagging the WA horses for not coming over here to race. But at every opp hes come and given it a go so soon his luck will change.
and with 650k of races we should see some criticism of our horses not going to give it a crack if we want to bag WA horses for not coming here.
and 1 thing not mentioned, connections having the courage to change drivers before these big races. seems to have paid dividends for them as no better big race driver than G Hall Jnr

[Chariots]

You are right Viv given that there is $650k.
available for the two races a week apart but only one interstate trained horse has won either the Fremantle Cup or the Pacing Cup in the last 10 years so you can see the reluctance to take on a solid fast class group on their home track. Washaskie won the Pacing Cup but even he is WA owned and commenced his Australian career in WA and he will not be competitive here unless John McCarthy drives a lot better than his very poor effort in the Fremantle Cup (what was he thinking?).

[Danno]

I'm Victorious 1:56:5 over2536m Carribean Blaster 1:57.7 over 2230m. Not difficult to see the better class of race.

Fair go Ray,
it's not like nobody knows that Gloucester Park is a MUCH faster track than Globe Derby and to put some alternative perspective on things, the horse that ran second in the Freeo cup won a C2 race at GP only 5 months ago. The horse that ran second in Adelaide has won $4 million, excluding an Interdominion final that was taken of him in controversial circumstances.
Don't get me wrong I'm not bagging ANYONES horse, I just like to see balance and facts in a debate.

Cheers,
Dan

[Mighty Atom]

I'm retracting an earlier statement with regards to the Fremantle Cup being all G1's except three; it can't be a group 1 horse unless it has won group1 races. So you have four in the Freo Cup and three in the SA Cup - the rest being FFA's But the quality of the FFA's was superior in the F.Cup.

[BenScadden]

The problem is Ash that the SA Cup was the same as last year - a two horse race with the same result, except reversed - and the same as last year the rest of the field could hardly be called G1 horses. The Fremantle Cup had 3 horses that would not be regarded as G1 horses. Should the SA Cup with a 125 thousand stake be a Group 1 race just because it is the states premier race? - debatable. Two tracks, same circumference but the speed of the horses show which was the more exciting race. To answer your question if an MO ran a 1: 52 mile and a FFA a 1: 53, I would regard the FFA a rather disappointing race. It appears it's all about speed these days looking at the number of mile races at Menangle and Albion Park, not only mile races but all distances.
Can't agree with that sentiment about time being an accurate reflection of quality, Rod. If they times weren't displayed, I doubt many could detect a significant difference between a race run in 1:57 or 1:54 with the naked eye.
I still reckon someone needs to head out with a tape measure and double-check the length of Gloucester Park. The times run there are sometimes almost unbelievable for the size of the track (and the horses aren't THAT good).
Having said that, I agree the Fremantle Cup had some more depth ... quite a few SA Cup runners weren't genuine Group 1 class IMO.
But obviously Smoken Up, Caribbean Blaster and, to a lesser degree, Abettorpunt have shown they can match it with the very best.

[broncobrad]

The MOST exciting part of the Freo Cup for mine Rod, is watching QUEENSLAND trainer Michael Brennan doing his best "Dancing With The Stars" performance as his little champ races past him down the straight, definitely worth a second look! Good horse with plenty of potential, looking forward to seeing him back on this side of the continent in the future with a bit more luck going his way.


http://www.harness.org.au/meeting-results.cfm?mc=GP100114&ms=wa#GPM10011408

[Richard prior]

I actually saw that on Friday night Brad, The Kookaburra was a pretty happy man.

[aussiebreno]

The MOST exciting part of the Freo Cup for mine Rod, is watching QUEENSLAND trainer Michael Brennan doing his best "Dancing With The Stars" performance as his little champ races past him down the straight, definitely worth a second look! Good horse with plenty of potential, looking forward to seeing him back on this side of the continent in the future with a bit more luck going his way.


http://www.harness.org.au/meeting-results.cfm?mc=GP100114&ms=wa#GPM10011408Well spotted. That's what racing is all about.

[Maorisidol]

[QUOTE=Mighty Atom;29803]The problem is Ash that the SA Cup was the same as last year - a two horse race with the same result, except reversed -
Yeah actually come to think of it like that it was boring.
Just like couldn't watch a re run of Blacks A Fake vs Safari in Ballarat Cup, boring second time if was to happen.
Waverley Star vs Bonecrusher, boring second time round if was to happen.
How many races did that San Simeon thing win in a row? Over 20? Boring, predictable, over it by the time he got to 7, stopped watchin.
Same for the little black thing Courage Under somethin...? Won too many, stupid!
And there's that sit sprinter horse in Perth who wins all the time against his home crowd in those local FFA's they call Group 1's over there, what's his name? I'm Themightysitsprinter?... He's boring, every week runs around the same track against the same horses he beat last week, who's the fastest with little legs around the old fashioned 800m track? No wonder Eastern horses don't go there...(sorry, gettin off track) we were talkin about same 2 horses in the SA Cup just 2 years in a row weren't we...is that a little of an over reaction based on same horses who go around in FFA every week in Perth?
Same track same horses same result, Quinn's in the paddock someone else gets a chance to win a race, currently I'm Victorious, take IV out David H or the 2nd placegetters last week gets a chance...

[aussiebreno]

[QUOTE=Mighty Atom;29803]The problem is Ash that the SA Cup was the same as last year - a two horse race with the same result, except reversed -
Yeah actually come to think of it like that it was boring.
Just like couldn't watch a re run of Blacks A Fake vs Safari in Ballarat Cup, boring second time if was to happen.
Waverley Star vs Bonecrusher, boring second time round if was to happen.
How many races did that San Simeon thing win in a row? Over 20? Boring, predictable, over it by the time he got to 7, stopped watchin.
Same for the little black thing Courage Under somethin...? Won too many, stupid!
And there's that sit sprinter horse in Perth who wins all the time against his home crowd in those local FFA's they call Group 1's over there, what's his name? I'm Themightysitsprinter?... He's boring, every week runs around the same track against the same horses he beat last week, who's the fastest with little legs around the old fashioned 800m track? No wonder Eastern horses don't go there...(sorry, gettin off track) we were talkin about same 2 horses in the SA Cup just 2 years in a row weren't we...is that a little of an over reaction based on same horses who go around in FFA every week in Perth?
Same track same horses same result, Quinn's in the paddock someone else gets a chance to win a race, currently I'm Victorious, take IV out David H or the 2nd placegetters last week gets a chance...Lol. Way to go. Trash possibly the greatest juvenile ever Courage Under Fire and another great with a big streak San Simeon. The racing industry has just had a major boom because some mare won 25 on end, most group 1s by many lengths. Not boring.
I'm also not sold a horse who can give them over 20m, come wide, and run away from the best in the land in a final quarter 26.7 over 2mile is boring.

[Richard prior]

Honestly Ash, Nobody has said that the SA Cup was boring. Did you watch the prelim to the cup the other night?? Globe Derby Park was bursting at the seams, and I guarantee you the people went along to watch the mighty Smoken Up V Carribean Blaster show, a possible repeat of last years great race. It looked to be a very good crowd at GP as well for another great race. There's nothing better than watching a horse win a large number of races in a row and great horses attract the crowds and the crowds like to have a punt and the punting dollars goes into our prizemoney. Like it or Lump it, The true Harness fans actually like to watch the races from the west and also New Zealand.

[Maorisidol]

[QUOTE=Maorisidol;29817]Lol. Way to go. Trash possibly the greatest juvenile ever Courage Under Fire and another great with a big streak San Simeon. The racing industry has just had a major boom because some mare won 25 on end, most group 1s by many lengths. Not boring.
I'm also not sold a horse who can give them over 20m, come wide, and run away from the best in the land in a final quarter 26.7 over 2mile is boring.

Brendan and Rich Prior, did u not read the start of my post and the "quote" from Rod???????

[QUOTE=Mighty Atom;29803]The problem is Ash that the SA Cup was the same as last year - a two horse race with the same result, except reversed -

So Rod is implying in his opinion the SA Cup was boring VS the Fremantle Cup that he thought was more exciting. Feel free gents to read his posts and the flow of the thread to get the gist.
I am merely very tongue in cheek, and very sarcastically agreeing with him!!!!!!!!!!!
As if that race was boring.!!!!!!
And then I went on to very sarcastically very tongue in cheek accuse some of the best pacers we have seen to b boring cos they won so many races... If Trigger and CB are boring cos they run the quinella 2 yrs in a row in Rods opinion, then CUF, San Simeon etc must be boring because they are all a repeat every week too, they raced they won, predictable, boring. (Stupid thing to say, isn't that obvious??????)
I merely emphasizing that to say such a thing about that race was in my opinion not true.
Maybe Rod could ask the people who were in SA if it was boring or if they as honest trots fans thought the Freo Cup was more exciting?
If they were disappointed in the race,
If Paul and his son who were there were bored and left as CB and Trigger dualled half way up the straight, " oh crap Dad, bloody just Trigger and CB battling again up the straight again like last year, stuff this lets go home"
Sorry, next time I will add in brackets when I am being blatantly obviously sarcastic.

[Mighty Atom]

[QUOTE=Mighty Atom;29803]The problem is Ash that the SA Cup was the same as last year - a two horse race with the same result, except reversed -
Yeah actually come to think of it like that it was boring.
Just like couldn't watch a re run of Blacks A Fake vs Safari in Ballarat Cup, boring second time if was to happen.
Waverley Star vs Bonecrusher, boring second time round if was to happen.
How many races did that San Simeon thing win in a row? Over 20? Boring, predictable, over it by the time he got to 7, stopped watchin.
Same for the little black thing Courage Under somethin...? Won too many, stupid!
And there's that sit sprinter horse in Perth who wins all the time against his home crowd in those local FFA's they call Group 1's over there, what's his name? I'm Themightysitsprinter?... He's boring, every week runs around the same track against the same horses he beat last week, who's the fastest with little legs around the old fashioned 800m track? No wonder Eastern horses don't go there...(sorry, gettin off track) we were talkin about same 2 horses in the SA Cup just 2 years in a row weren't we...is that a little of an over reaction based on same horses who go around in FFA every week in Perth?
Same track same horses same result, Quinn's in the paddock someone else gets a chance to win a race, currently I'm Victorious, take IV out David H or the 2nd placegetters last week gets a chance...
Ash, your seething jealousy needs psychiatric attention. So while you're out there regurgitating the same old excreta regarding Perth pacing I'll redefine what I've said before. If your horses are so good the $ 650,000 would be like taking candy from a baby - there for the taking. But once again no show instead preferring to race on that other old fashioned track Globe Derby for peanuts. At least the connections of Washakie are prepared to have a go. Try disguising your vitriol with a little more subtlety if you don't want to be thought of as a fool.

[aussiebreno]

[QUOTE=aussiebreno;29819]

Brendan and Rich Prior, did u not read the start of my post and the "quote" from Rod???????

[QUOTE=Mighty Atom;29803]The problem is Ash that the SA Cup was the same as last year - a two horse race with the same result, except reversed -

So Rod is implying in his opinion the SA Cup was boring VS the Fremantle Cup that he thought was more exciting. Feel free gents to read his posts and the flow of the thread to get the gist.
I am merely very tongue in cheek, and very sarcastically agreeing with him!!!!!!!!!!!
As if that race was boring.!!!!!!
And then I went on to very sarcastically very tongue in cheek accuse some of the best pacers we have seen to b boring cos they won so many races... If Trigger and CB are boring cos they run the quinella 2 yrs in a row in Rods opinion, then CUF, San Simeon etc must be boring because they are all a repeat every week too, they raced they won, predictable, boring. (Stupid thing to say, isn't that obvious??????)
I merely emphasizing that to say such a thing about that race was in my opinion not true.
Maybe Rod could ask the people who were in SA if it was boring or if they as honest trots fans thought the Freo Cup was more exciting?
If they were disappointed in the race,
If Paul and his son who were there were bored and left as CB and Trigger dualled half way up the straight, " oh crap Dad, bloody just Trigger and CB battling again up the straight again like last year, stuff this lets go home"
Sorry, next time I will add in brackets when I am being blatantly obviously sarcastic.yes the BAF/Safari and Bonecrusher/our Waverley star was blatant sarcasm. While I didn't think so, I will take your word San Simeon and CUF was sarcasm. As for Quinny, no way was that sarcasm. Your past efforts defeat you there.

[Mighty Atom]

Would like to apologize for any perceived attack on the S A pacing Cup and Globe Derby; it was not my intention, and certainly no intention to demean Smoken Up's attempt to win a record 5 S A Cups.

[brent_L]

Let me firstly say I love watching/punting at Gloucester Park, but I totally understand why trainers/owners don't take their good horses over. If u don't lead, it's tough to win. Exceptions recently are of course Quinny & IV but they are locals who apart from being extremely good have characteristics that suit GP. There have been numerous eastern state horses in the past 5-10 yrs travel over, start short price fav and fail. Just recently we saw Bit Of A Legend have 5 starts at GP against opposition far inferior (perhaps for 1 or 2) for only 1 win.......when leading. In months prior he'd finished 4th in two very strong Derbys + won a breeders crown by 10m. The reason he failed was the GP racing style didn't suit. A lot of the big races are won by leaders or those on the pegs and I can't see good horses travelling across the country to go 3 back the pegs (right where washakie should have stayed)

[Chariots]

Sounds good in theory Brent but here is the reality of the last 10 Pacing Cups in WA

Leaders have won two, breeze horses have one two, three wide without cover at the bell have won one and the other five have been won by horses trailing up three wide at the bell. Not one winner has raced on the pegs with a trail.

[brent_L]

Sounds good in theory Brent but here is the reality of the last 10 Pacing Cups in WA

Leaders have won two, breeze horses have one two, three wide without cover at the bell have won one and the other five have been won by horses trailing up three wide at the bell. Not one winner has raced on the pegs with a trail.
I never used the pacing cup as an example Ray. I was just trying to point out that 'generally' u need to be on the pegs at GP (more so in higher graded races) a lot more so than any other track in Australia/NZ. I'm sure they are helpful, but I'm not one to use stats, I prefer to trust my eye, which over the years has told me to look for horses that will be following the pegs home.
I did however take 10 minutes out to look at some results....it's only a very small sample but alarming nonetheless. Discounting wins by IV there have been 15 listed (or better) races run at GP this racing term of which the winner has led 11 times and sat leaders back once. 12 out of 15 with an average starting price of $2.78. Cheers

[Gtrain]

Thought I better stay up and watch the stars of Aus harness racing go around last night Rod. What and exhibition. Amazing breathtaking performance of Australia's now greatest pacer in defeating a c8 and a claimer in 1.59. Think Ill stay in bed from now on.....

[Maorisidol]

Thought I better stay up and watch the stars of Aus harness racing go around last night Rod. What and exhibition. Amazing breathtaking performance of Australia's now greatest pacer in defeating a c8 and a claimer in 1.59. Think Ill stay in bed from now on.....

Gtrain u better get onto Toretto, This Time Dylan and Hokonui Ben for the Inter Dominion mate!
Cos apparently the WA Cup is not only WA's, but one of Australia's Premier Group 1 races and this must be the current formguide for some of Australia's most gifted pacers, so no doubt horses of their skill will be at Menangle.


footnote, this post is totally sarcastic and tongue in cheek for those who cannot realize that! :)

[aussiebreno]

Gtrain u better get onto Toretto, This Time Dylan and Hokonui Ben for the Inter Dominion mate!
Cos apparently the WA Cup is not only WA's, but one of Australia's Premier Group 1 races and this must be the current formguide for some of Australia's most gifted pacers, so no doubt horses of their skill will be at Menangle.


footnote, this post is totally sarcastic and tongue in cheek for those who cannot realize that! :)was almost smartest thing you've said on this forum until you had to go and say you were being sarcastic.

WA pacing Cup winner 2011 = Im themightyquinn.
Interdom winner 2011 = Im themightyquinn

Wa Pacing Cup winner 2012 = Im themightyquinn
Interdom winner 2012 = Im themightyquinn

Wa pacing cup winner 2013 = Im themightyquinn
Interdom winner 2013 = Im themightyquinn

Baltic Eagle the double in 2003. Falcon Strike a nose off the double in 2004.

Not a bad record in past 10 years.

[Mighty Atom]

Ash, So sad that you have never been able to overcome the humiliation I'm Themightyquinn delivered to you after his Inters and Auckland Cup wins in 2013. Your constant sarcastic remarks of ITMQ really reveals the true nature of your problem. And as I was one of many who gleefully rubbed your nose in it the indignation has all been too much to bear. You may ask what has this got to do with last nights Pacing cup? well I say a lot because every opportunity you get your'e trying to get even with me. Well you'll have to do better than that. There, no need for your psycho-evaluation appointment - I've done it for you. Totally sarcastic with no tongue in cheek intended.

[Maorisidol]

was almost smartest thing you've said on this forum until you had to go and say you were being sarcastic.

WA pacing Cup winner 2011 = Im themightyquinn.
Interdom winner 2011 = Im themightyquinn

Wa Pacing Cup winner 2012 = Im themightyquinn
Interdom winner 2012 = Im themightyquinn

Wa pacing cup winner 2013 = Im themightyquinn
Interdom winner 2013 = Im themightyquinn

Baltic Eagle the double in 2003. Falcon Strike a nose off the double in 2004.

Not a bad record in past 10 years.

Brenno the point was about the race not ITMQ.
you've given 4 examples, Falcon example doesn't count cos didn't get the double, yes he was a great horse, but didn't get it.
And your example only gives 2 horses therefore in the last 10 yrs, again using your number, that's not a lot considering how many horses race in WA over 10 years... That's my point, not Quinn.
And just to stir the pot cos u and Might Atom jump on here so damn quickly every time I throw out a hook, a line and a sinker for u both to swallow, don't forget Quinn has an asterix on his name after his first ID...

[aussiebreno]

Brenno the point was about the race not ITMQ.
you've given 4 examples, Falcon example doesn't count cos didn't get the double, yes he was a great horse, but didn't get it.
And your example only gives 2 horses therefore in the last 10 yrs, again using your number, that's not a lot considering how many horses race in WA over 10 years... That's my point, not Quinn.
And just to stir the pot cos u and Might Atom jump on here so damn quickly every time I throw out a hook, a line and a sinker for u both to swallow, don't forget Quinn has an asterix on his name after his first ID...My example was about race too. winner of WA cup last three yrs has went on to win the Inter. Only six horses won the Inter in last 10 years. 2/6 ain't bad.

[Mighty Atom]

Thought I better stay up and watch the stars of Aus harness racing go around last night Rod. What and exhibition. Amazing breathtaking performance of Australia's now greatest pacer in defeating a c8 and a claimer in 1.59. Think Ill stay in bed from now on.....

I know it was an absolute stinker so what does that say about your champions. I'm Corzin Terror stays home to contest Hunter Cup where he will meet a lot stronger field made up top horses from Australia and New Zealand . No one shy's away from $400,000 if it's like taking candy from a baby. Those champs from the east have a lot better chance in The WA Pacing Cup than winning the Hunter Cup but it's the fear factor that stops them in their tracks. The WA Pacing Cup is strewn with beaten favourites from the east in the past - this is what keeps you lot away........ pleasant dreams.

[Gtrain]

I know it was an absolute stinker so what does that say about your champions. I'm Corzin Terror stays home to contest Hunter Cup where he will meet a lot stronger field made up top horses from Australia and New Zealand . No one shy's away from $400,000 if it's like taking candy from a baby. Those champs from the east have a lot better chance in The WA Pacing Cup than winning the Hunter Cup but it's the fear factor that stops them in their tracks. The WA Pacing Cup is strewn with beaten favourites from the east in the past - this is what keeps you lot away........ pleasant dreams.

Rod, buy a map. Or use google earth. It's a long way away in the middle of the hottest part of the year with a plethora of group race options in Victoria. Taking a ffa to wa for two races spells the end of your prep. The beaten favourites that have been sent over have hardly been your Blacks a fakes, Safari's, Smoken ups, Elsu's, Monkey Kings, Changeovers. Outside of Flashing red, who acquitted himself admirably and mr Feelgood I can't recall any real absolute top liners from the east travelling over to compete in a wa cup in a long time. I think Jofess may have used it as a warm up for an interdom once. The timing is poor. The depth of the race is similar. A claimer ran third. PLEASE!! This years race was a snoozefest. You jumped up and down when no one talked about your precious freo cup last week. The reason is our races have better horses across the field. After watching wa cup last night and shep cup tonight I hope wa moves back another couple of time zones so I definitely don't stay up to watch another race of your "group 1 stars".

[Maorisidol]

Ash, So sad that you have never been able to overcome the humiliation I'm Themightyquinn delivered to you after his Inters and Auckland Cup wins in 2013. Your constant sarcastic remarks of ITMQ really reveals the true nature of your problem. And as I was one of many who gleefully rubbed your nose in it the indignation has all been too much to bear. You may ask what has this got to do with last nights Pacing cup? well I say a lot because every opportunity you get your'e trying to get even with me. Well you'll have to do better than that. There, no need for your psycho-evaluation appointment - I've done it for you. Totally sarcastic with no tongue in cheek intended.

Actually after the Menangle ID Rod I do believe I posted on here that I gave full credit to Quinn for that win my friend...
He did surprise me a bit no doubt being 3 wide for so long over that long trip, didn't think he had it in him.
My " mental issues" re Quinn and WA insular racing are based around having a good old dig about something that is easy to stir up. Like I said to Brenno u 2 guys get so defensive and personally injured if I especially, but anyone has a go at either Quinn or WA racing, it's like fishin in a bucket
It's easy to "challenge" WA racing cos Perth is Geographically so far from the Eastern states, hence it's very insular, almost like living on an island, simple as that, And cos u blokes bite so much so hard it's just a bit funny to see how hard u come back in Defence. So relax a little boys, don't be so highly strung.

[aussiebreno]

Rod, buy a map. Or use google earth. It's a long way away in the middle of the hottest part of the year with a plethora of group race options in Victoria. Taking a ffa to wa for two races spells the end of your prep. The beaten favourites that have been sent over have hardly been your Blacks a fakes, Safari's, Smoken ups, Elsu's, Monkey Kings, Changeovers. Outside of Flashing red, who acquitted himself admirably and mr Feelgood I can't recall any real absolute top liners from the east travelling over to compete in a wa cup in a long time. I think Jofess may have used it as a warm up for an interdom once. The timing is poor. The depth of the race is similar. A claimer ran third. PLEASE!! This years race was a snoozefest. You jumped up and down when no one talked about your precious freo cup last week. The reason is our races have better horses across the field. After watching wa cup last night and shep cup tonight I hope wa moves back another couple of time zones so I definitely don't stay up to watch another race of your "group 1 stars".
Divisive beaten just a while after winning Miracle Mile and running 2nd to Blacks a Fake (beating home Smoken Up) in the ID

[Gtrain]

Divisive?? Are you even half serious? He was luckier to win the mm than baby bling. He went around at twentiess in the mm then travelled half the globe to come within a metre of winning the wa cup. If anything he is proof of the contrary. He wouldn't tack a shoe on BAF or SU. Please.

[aussiebreno]

Divisive?? Are you even half serious? He was luckier to win the mm than baby bling. He went around at twentiess in the mm then travelled half the globe to come within a metre of winning the wa cup. If anything he is proof of the contrary. He wouldn't tack a shoe on BAF or SU. Please.
From what I can see head to head record Divisive 3 to Smoken Up 1. And one Trigger beat him home in was Hunter Cup when Divisive started fave...on the back of sitting outside Smoken Up and beating him. Then Divisive runs straight past Trigger in Inter semi and Inter final.
Ps BAF and Smoken Up shouldn't even be mentioned in the same sentence. One is a 4 time ID winner and won a Hunter Cup off 30m...the other wins Vic FFAs but has something like a 1in11 record in Vic G1s and fills his G1 win pockets with sub standard SA Cups and Len Smith Miles.

[Maorisidol]

From what I can see head to head record Divisive 3 to Smoken Up 1. And one Trigger beat him home in was Hunter Cup when Divisive started fave...on the back of sitting outside Smoken Up and beating him. Then Divisive runs straight past Trigger in Inter semi and Inter final.
Ps BAF and Smoken Up shouldn't even be mentioned in the same sentence. One is a 4 time ID winner and won a Hunter Cup off 30m...the other wins Vic FFAs but has something like a 1in11 record in Vic G1s and fills his G1 win pockets with sub standard SA Cups and Len Smith Miles.

Wow, so Brenno are u implying that in your opinion Divisive was a better pacer then Smoken Up?
Is that what u publicly wish to announce to this forum?

[aussiebreno]

Wow, so Brenno are u implying that in your opinion Divisive was a better pacer then Smoken Up?
Is that what u publicly wish to announce to this forum?

Comment was made Divisive wouldn't tack a shoe on Smoken Up. All I done was argue that point. Hard to compare a star juvenile who we never saw the best of due to injury at an older age against a warhorse who has been at the top for season upon season. But in their head to head clashes I think it's fair to say Divisive got the better of Smoken Up.

[Maorisidol]

Comment was made Divisive wouldn't tack a shoe on Smoken Up. All I done was argue that point. Hard to compare a star juvenile who we never saw the best of due to injury at an older age against a warhorse who has been at the top for season upon season. But in their head to head clashes I think it's fair to say Divisive got the better of Smoken Up.
Would u also agree that the Smoken Up of Divisive days is not as good as the Smoken Up we have seen in the last 3-4 years?
And I think u failed to mention that other mile race Menangle has that's a Group 1, isn't it called the Miracle Mile, twice he won I believe? And was the Victoria Cup a Group 1 too? Funny u missed those trying to talk him down...

[aussiebreno]

Would u also agree that the Smoken Up of Divisive days is not as good as the Smoken Up we have seen in the last 3-4 years?
And I think u failed to mention that other mile race Menangle has that's a Group 1, isn't it called the Miracle Mile, twice he won I believe? And was the Victoria Cup a Group 1 too? Funny u missed those trying to talk him down...somebody skimming over things and only looking at the negatives when talking about a horse. Who does that sound like?

[Gtrain]

From what I can see head to head record Divisive 3 to Smoken Up 1. And one Trigger beat him home in was Hunter Cup when Divisive started fave...on the back of sitting outside Smoken Up and beating him. Then Divisive runs straight past Trigger in Inter semi and Inter final.
Ps BAF and Smoken Up shouldn't even be mentioned in the same sentence. One is a 4 time ID winner and won a Hunter Cup off 30m...the other wins Vic FFAs but has something like a 1in11 record in Vic G1s and fills his G1 win pockets with sub standard SA Cups and Len Smith Miles.

I was told as a young fellow never argue with idiots, they will drag you down to their level and beat you with experience. Smoken up v divisive? Wow!! I didn't think that was a debate. Can you remember Divisive Brenno or are you just looking at your results page?
No one who seen them race could honestly put something so ridiculous forward. Maybe sneak through your results page and see how many times divisive drew barrier one in a big race, sucked the pegs not spending a penny and came away with the bikkies?

[Smoken]

Trigger definitely was not at his best in the years racing against Divisive. I liked watching Divisive's big
Sprint I must say. Trigger is just something very very special. Look at what he is doing @ age
11.. Mind boggling, & scary thing is, it seems he is peaking at the right time :)
What a run by Trigger in the Shepparton cup.
Will he rest for the fortnight to run in the Hunter Cup, or run in the Ballarat cup, pure steel?

[aussiebreno]

I was told as a young fellow never argue with idiots, they will drag you down to their level and beat you with experience. Smoken up v divisive? Wow!! I didn't think that was a debate. Can you remember Divisive Brenno or are you just looking at your results page?
No one who seen them race could honestly put something so ridiculous forward. Maybe sneak through your results page and see how many times divisive drew barrier one in a big race, sucked the pegs not spending a penny and came away with the bikkies?No, I remember Divisives 3yo year drawing the pole in all the Derbies. In fact I remember getting old man putting a bob EW for me on Divisive and Take the Oath in a race at HP when they were 2yos. I remember Melpark Major being good thing beat in that Miracle Mile and BAF having back problems. I remember Melpark Major sitting 3 wide at Kilmore and beating Smoken Up. In early 2008 Smoken Up ran within a length of Blacks a Fake three times. I think it's fair to say he was at his best. 2009 Blacks A Fake gives him 30m and beats him. 2010 Inter at Menangle BAF beats him by over a length. And year by year BAF was slowly losing his brilliance, so Smoken Up entitled to get closer not further away. What changed was BAF, Monkey King, Safari, Divisive and Changeover retired...when Smoken Up and Mr Feelgood went from being one of a bunch at the top to favourites in anything they started in by default. The worrying thing is he still found horses to beat him in all the big races (apart from Miracle Miles). The big race he did win Vic Cup 2011 and Feelgood ran 2nd btn a head after sitting outside him!!
So apart from maybe winning more of the Vic FFAs by virtue of running in more of them he didn't really improve any at all and his big race record shows this.

[aussiebreno]

Trigger definitely was not at his best in the years racing against Divisive. I liked watching Divisive's big
Sprint I must say. Trigger is just something very very special. Look at what he is doing @ age
11.. Mind boggling, & scary thing is, it seems he is peaking at the right time :)
What a run by Trigger in the Shepparton cup.
Will he rest for the fortnight to run in the Hunter Cup, or run in the Ballarat cup, pure steel?
You mean race week to week? I was told back in Nov just after the Miracle Mile that he couldn't handle racing back to back two weeks in a row. And here he is now running three weeks in a row! Surely he gives this week a rest because that would be 5 weeks in a row.

Edit: actually maybe the SA Cup only counts as track work given usual strength of the race.

[aussiebreno]

That said it would be really fitting for him to win Hunter Cup this year and its shaping up as a big, big possibility that he does. I hope he does win it tbh.

[Smoken]

Trigger in my mind won that Inter in NZ fair and square, & the quality in that race was one of the best.
He doesn't need to be juiced, as we all clearly know he is a once in a generation freak! Last years S.A cup had CB, this year it had, CB, ABOP, PTB, YAN etc, & to win 4 of them is extremely rare in it's own right. Only the mighty Gammalite has achieved it.
How about Triggers run, when he was 3 wide the trip, when he just lost to Mr Zion in the SA Cup. IMHO, difference between all the other horse mentioned and Trigger is, he nearly always has done the hard yards and raced brutally and done the tough grinding work, with beyond amazing results. If any other horse, had the runs Trigger has had, they would have been done and dusted 3-4 yrs ago.
AussieBrenno, I am curious to ask you what you think of Black Caviar?

[Mighty Atom]

I was told as a young fellow never argue with idiots, they will drag you down to their level and beat you with experience. Smoken up v divisive? Wow!! I didn't think that was a debate. Can you remember Divisive Brenno or are you just looking at your results page?
No one who seen them race could honestly put something so ridiculous forward. Maybe sneak through your results page and see how many times divisive drew barrier one in a big race, sucked the pegs not spending a penny and came away with the bikkies?

Talking to a few blokes the other day and guess what?http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-e-kKpKj1ZkU/T80oaNAx7MI/AAAAAAAAGnY/qVgs6s85FjY/s640/idiots.jpg

[Gtrain]

Talking to a few blokes the other day and guess what?http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-e-kKpKj1ZkU/T80oaNAx7MI/AAAAAAAAGnY/qVgs6s85FjY/s640/idiots.jpg

You and Brenno?

[Maorisidol]

Comment was made Divisive wouldn't tack a shoe on Smoken Up. All I done was argue that point. Hard to compare a star juvenile who we never saw the best of due to injury at an older age against a warhorse who has been at the top for season upon season. But in their head to head clashes I think it's fair to say Divisive got the better of Smoken Up.

In their head to head clashes it's fair to say that Auckland Reactor got the better of ITMQ.
Score line 5/3
So in Brennos opinion is AR a better horse than Quinn?
I'll answer that for u, no.
Head to head not always a great comparison.
Wanna start a new thread and have a vote to the whole forum for people to vote on who the better horse is/was, trigger vs Divisive?
I'll answer for u again, no.

[Richard prior]

Ash, Divisive hasn't raced since Jan 2009 and Smoken Up has achieved a hell of a lot in that time and I think it would be unfair to compare them.

[HarnessFan]

Go Benny - I believe the stars in Australasia are the most evenly matched that we have experienced in the last ten years.
Parochialism can be fun but getting luck, producing the horse at the best of the horses potential are going to be significant come March 2.
Let's just enjoy a good stoush on the track.

[Mighty Atom]

Go Benny - I believe the stars in Australasia are the most evenly matched that we have experienced in the last ten years.
Parochialism can be fun but getting luck, producing the horse at the best of the horses potential are going to be significant come March 2.
Let's just enjoy a good stoush on the track.

Hi Jeroen,
Are you one of the owners of Hokonui Ben? If so congratulations, and yes you do have a very good horse. I was being facetious when I said the WA Pacing Cup was a stinker.

[aussiebreno]

In their head to head clashes it's fair to say that Auckland Reactor got the better of ITMQ.
Score line 5/3
So in Brennos opinion is AR a better horse than Quinn?
I'll answer that for u, no.
Head to head not always a great comparison.
Wanna start a new thread and have a vote to the whole forum for people to vote on who the better horse is/was, trigger vs Divisive?
I'll answer for u again, no.
Yes, Auckland Reactor was quite superior to ITMQ when they were younger horses.
Point isn't about who was best out of Smoken Up. Point was Divisive can hold a tack to Smoken Up and going back to quality horses from the East travelling to WA.

[aussiebreno]

Go Benny - I believe the stars in Australasia are the most evenly matched that we have experienced in the last ten years.
Parochialism can be fun but getting luck, producing the horse at the best of the horses potential are going to be significant come March 2.
Let's just enjoy a good stoush on the track.Well done!

[HarnessFan]

I am grateful that I have experienced a situation where a very good horse has on this occasion won a truly great race. Grateful for my luck and grateful for all the people that made it happen. Exciting that my horse can now be mentioned in a place in history alongside the likes of ITMQ and also those great horses from the east.

[Richard prior]

Congratulations mate.

[Toohard]

Congratulations Jeroen! Gary Hall Snrs 8th I believe (since 2003).

[broncobrad]

Jeroen, I live in a harness racing wilderness in this part of the world. The biggest buzz out of being part of the forum for me, is connecting with some like minded folk who hold the sport closest to their heart...(They ALL know who they are). Most of the action for me is limited to the small screen, but when a forum member gets a win (if I am on them or not)(if it be Tamworth, Horsham, Pt Pirie or the major centres), I get a huge kick.


Congratulations buddy. Massive effort, celebrate long and hard, you have the genius's of the West looking after your interests admirably (Sorry Rod, I was talking about the Halls lol), again cheers.

[Smoken]

Congratulations Joroen! You must be over the moon :)

[HarnessFan]

Thanks for the kind words guys. The feeling is truly amazing even watching from a TV here in QLD. I get a great buzz from the odd win at Redcliffe too.

[Mighty Atom]

Not taking any accolades away from Hokonui Ben but just read that I'm Victorious carted a flat tyre sitting out three wide for the last 1100 metres.

[ifyousayso]

Nice win HB. Cant take anything away from him. Ill admit i was on IV. Was disappointed in his run on the night.

but before IV gets bashed it seems everything that possibly could have gone wrong for him did so to be beaten 11m prob actually a very good run.

anyway this is what i just read this from the article on the harness link site.

"Im Victorious started from the inside of the back line and Hall drove him hard early in an attempt to get off the pegs and into the one-wide line. However, when Im Victorious was in fourth position 150m after the start he was checked, raced roughly and lost two lengths. The stewards found that Ima Rocket Star (Colin Brown) had shifted down when not clear of Im Victorious. They suspended Brown from driving for 23 days.
After this early setback Hall jun. urged Im Victorious forward with a three-wide burst 400m after the start. This caused Kyle Harper, in the breeze with Bettors Fire, to speed up and resist the move. This sudden acceleration opened up the field and Hall was able to immediately slot into the prime one-out, one-back position.
Harper then rated back in the breeze, with Bettors Fire almost two lengths behind the pacemaker. Clint hall then was able to get Hokonui Ben to relax, without being under any pressure. No further moves came until Hall jun. eased Im Victorious out from the one-wide line 1300m from home. Hall was half-carting, and Ima Rocket Star, who had been trailing Im Victorious in the one-wide line, contacted the nearside sulky wheel of the favourite.
This flattened the tyre, putting Im Victorious at a significant disadvantage. Im Victorious then began a three-wide burst to be fourth at the bell, but he was unable to get past Bettors Fire and had to race out wide for the remainder of the race. He looked a spent force passing the 400m mark and finished sixth"

[G-Mac]

G Hall Jnr was given a $200 fine for trailing the wheel of another runner. As it turns out, that fine pales into insignificance given that it resulted in him getting a flat tyre and IV losing his chance.
C Hall was suspended 28 days and fined $1k for an incorrect whip action. "In determining penalty Stewards were mindful of his poor record in relation to whip offences."