Interesting Result

[Danno]

Folks have a look at this and tell me what I've missed, Protest in the fifth at Goulburn.
Megs Furrari comes a tad wider in the run home but for the life of me I cant see how it affected the result....please explain?????

http://www.trotstv.com.au/?mc=LM270114&rn=5

http://www.harness.org.au/meeting-results.cfm?mc=LM270114&ms=nsw

I'm sure I have missed something, I just can't see it!

Cheers,
Dan

[Maorisidol]

Folks have a look at this and tell me what I've missed, Protest in the fifth at Goulburn.
Megs Furrari comes a tad wider in the run home but for the life of me I cant see how it affected the result....please explain?????

http://www.trotstv.com.au/?mc=LM270114&rn=5

http://www.harness.org.au/meeting-results.cfm?mc=LM270114&ms=nsw

I'm sure I have missed something, I just can't see it!

Cheers,
Dan

From what i can see Dan
it seems Megs Outside wheel contacts the Favs in the last 30-50m or so...
The Fav is coming with momentum but if you watch their wheels, the Fav gets to Megs wheel and suddenly stops being the faster finishing horse, like a brake has been put on. Hence i guess stewards allege Meg drifted out to impede Favs running, protest upheld.
Similar to an alleged tactic apparently used in Perth by a very busy reinsman as mentioned on this forum...

[Greg Hando]

Yeah Megs Ferrari only shifted out marginally.Amanda Turnbull stopped driving her horse out 10 mts from the line and probably made it look worse than what it was. To me there was nothing in it.
We had a horse one night at Parkes get carted from outside leader at top of straight to 6 wide and dead heated with the lead horse and when our driver asked to look at the video he was told by the officiating steward there was nothing to look at and with that steward declared all clear. It is hard not to say everything wasn't above board but leader also was even money favourite. You could smell a rat but what are you to do at the time.
Done us out of $3,ooo prize money for a stand alone win.

[Richard prior]

Without seeing the head on camera, It's very hard to take the race away from Megs Ferrari. I couldn't really see where Meg's moved out and I think it could have been that Amanda needed to come a bit wider with her horse as she contacted Meg's wheel with her horse. IMHO Megs hard done by. Concerning what Greg mentioned, Shouldn't a driver always have the option to look at the replay before the all clear is given???

[Danno]

From what i can see Dan
it seems Megs Outside wheel contacts the Favs in the last 30-50m or so...
The Fav is coming with momentum but if you watch their wheels, the Fav gets to Megs wheel and suddenly stops being the faster finishing horse, like a brake has been put on. Hence i guess stewards allege Meg drifted out to impede Favs running, protest upheld.
Similar to an alleged tactic apparently used in Perth by a very busy reinsman as mentioned on this forum...

Watched it ( again) a few times Ash, if there was any contact ( visible on the supplied footage) that made a difference to the end result of the race then I must be Agent 86, cos Max used to F___ up EVERYTHING!.
Ash I have been around for a while and seen some perplexing things, this is just one of them.

Cheers,
Dan

[broncobrad]

You see leaders boring out all the time on horses on their outside, boring back in on horses getting underneath them and they hang on to the race!... Sapio has driven an absolute 110% cracker on Meg and Amanda has driven her horse without due care and gets the bucks. Has harness racing gone all politically correct all of a sudden?


Sapio has neither gone in or out like you see every Thursday night at Penrith, just done his best and got the result.


(Disclaimer) We all need the head on vision to know exactly what interference has occurred. (Like Shepparton and Ballarat and Gloucester Park in recent times)


How about the sprint around them by Marty Monkhouser...that was exciting to watch!

[HaroldParker]

Geez, that was a ridiculous decision IMO. OK yeah, no head on but the Fav was clear at the 300m and had every chance. In fact from turning until halfway down, the horse was laying in and their wheels only came into contact within the shadows of the wire.

That race was stolen away from them.

[brent_L]

The head on footage of this race has now been uploaded to Trots TV.

Cue to 2:50 for vision from the top of the straight.

http://trotstv.com.au/?id=12509
Now go again guys. I'll be interested to see if anyone has changed their view.
I personally thought it was (and still do) flip of the coin.

[Maorisidol]

The head on footage of this race has now been uploaded to Trots TV.

Cue to 2:50 for vision from the top of the straight.

http://trotstv.com.au/?id=12509

Thanx Adam, thats awesome.

as i said earlier, "it seems Megs Outside wheel contacts the Favs in the last 30-50m or so...
The Fav is coming with momentum but if you watch their wheels, the Fav gets to Megs wheel and suddenly stops being the faster finishing horse, like a brake has been put on. Hence i guess stewards allege Meg drifted out to impede Favs running, protest upheld."

100%, Meg drifted out and applied a brake to the Fav. From the regular vision he full on gets to Meg then stays exactly with Meg and does not progress one more millimetre.
From head on vision, drifts out and contacts Fav, wheels lock, no more fwd movement... too easy, upheld.

[Greg Hando]

The right call was made on the head on but would be happy with either result.

[broncobrad]

Thanks Adam and Trots TV for supplying the head-on.


I for one am not 100% convinced that the right result was reached. Don't the stewards have to be certain that the interference contributed enough to alter the result? Sure Megs has drifted a touch (and Sapio didn't stop driving her), whilst Amanda chose to drive her mount out all the way with her reins. When Meg was drifting out it didn't affect Highview Conalls momentum one bit until the post was looming and the wheels lock. After watching the replay again a few times tonight from the side on, I am not convinced that Highview had enough time to head the leader before they arrive at the post. But that's just my take on it. It is just too 50/50 to be conclusive, unless one of you trotting brainiacs can pull a rule out that directly affects this type of result...

[HaroldParker]

Thanks Adam and Trots TV for supplying the head-on.


I for one am not 100% convinced that the right result was reached. Don't the stewards have to be certain that the interference contributed enough to alter the result? Sure Megs has drifted a touch (and Sapio didn't stop driving her), whilst Amanda chose to drive her mount out all the way with her reins. When Meg was drifting out it didn't affect Highview Conalls momentum one bit until the post was looming and the wheels lock. After watching the replay again a few times tonight from the side on, I am not convinced that Highview had enough time to head the leader before they arrive at the post. But that's just my take on it. It is just too 50/50 to be conclusive, unless one of you trotting brainiacs can pull a rule out that directly affects this type of result...

Spot on Brad. Highview was it's own worst enemy laying in under pressure. The worst of the head on is past the line. If that's a precedent, the Stewards can expect a busier time in the weeks ahead.

[Danno]

Congrats to HRNSW for putting the head on up for all to see, I hear people saying that they locked wheels and the stewards summary in the results page states they locked wheels but in fact they did not, sure the sulkies came together and when that happened the wheel stays momentarily hooked up, possibly hindering the eventual winner, hard call to take it off the first horse past the post IMO, however the stewards have to make a decision reasonably quickly and that needs to be respected.

[Richard prior]

I'll go with Dan on this one. Well done Adam for putting the head on footage up for everyone to see.

[The Escape Club]

One other consequence of the protest being upheld was the dividends. Before it was upheld the first 4 was, iirc, $5,995, afterwards $832.40, before, the trifecta was around $850, afterwards $150.30.

[brent_L]

I'm gonna need an explanation from the stewards as to how they dismissed the protest in race 8 today at Menangle. I was on the winner and was 100% content to cop the loss via protest.......if it didn't shift out it would NOT have won! I'm not into conspiracies whatsoever but I just can't help but wonder what the result may have been if the winner wasn't a 3s on favourite.
Can anyone tell me if the stewards do indeed give an explanation for their decision in their report?
Off to buy lotto with my misgotten winnings.

[Danno]

Looked a bit ordinary for sure Brent, the stewards need to be satisfied the protesting party would HAVE WON without the interference and I reckon that would have been a very close call, it was definitley a clear case of the horse in front shifting out that caused the incident IMO, however, as stated, the stipes need to be convinced the result would have been different. Enjoy your lotto winnings? hopefully!

Cheers,
Dan

[aussiebreno]

Looked a bit ordinary for sure Brent, the stewards need to be satisfied the protesting party would HAVE WON without the interference and I reckon that would have been a very close call, it was definitley a clear case of the horse in front shifting out that caused the incident IMO, however, as stated, the stipes need to be convinced the result would have been different. Enjoy your lotto winnings? hopefully!

Cheers,
Dan
While I haven't seen the race, and acknowledge that the current rule is the protesting horse would have won, I reckon the rules needs changing. You can't gain an advantage (eg inside markers pegs) or give another horse a disadvantage (eg shift out) and still expect to be treated equitably.

[HaroldParker]

I saw the head on earlier and it was severe.

Megs Ferrari involved minimal wheel to wheel contact when it had only shifted out one cart max.

Fitzpatrick's filly was spent. She wobbled out four to five horses +, took the legs out of a filly certainly going by it.

The differences, 2nd v 1st against 5th v 1st. Awarding a race to a public elect in the first instance and taking a race away from the public elect in the the second.

Turnbull / Fitzpatrick v Sapio / McDowell. Certainly if first past the post today was Tritton and Panella, they have the race taken from them and the 7 day suspension is quadrupled.

Way before Megs, there is prejudice to what this mob does and doesn't do, queries or let's slide.

[brent_L]

The head on shot after the race showed the winner shift out about 2-3 carts inside the final 150. Fred Hastings said straight away 'the stewards are gonna wanna have a look at that' and sky host Greg Hayes (after that head on shot) says 'favourite backers are in trouble with a capital T'. It was a no brainer and I feel for the connections of the horse who should have won but finished 5th.

[brent_L]

Agree wholeheartedly Bob.

[kung fu man]

Have a look and tell me why we lost this race nobody i have spoken to can!http://www.trotstv.com.au/?mc=YU221113&rn=8!
Yeah Megs Ferrari only shifted out marginally.Amanda Turnbull stopped driving her horse out 10 mts from the line and probably made it look worse than what it was. To me there was nothing in it.
We had a horse one night at Parkes get carted from outside leader at top of straight to 6 wide and dead heated with the lead horse and when our driver asked to look at the video he was told by the officiating steward there was nothing to look at and with that steward declared all clear. It is hard not to say everything wasn't above board but leader also was even money favourite. You could smell a rat but what are you to do at the time.
Done us out of $3,ooo prize money for a stand alone win.

[Lucky Camilla"s Lovechild]

Have a look and tell me why we lost this race nobody i have spoken to can!http://www.trotstv.com.au/?mc=YU221113&rn=8!
Oh dear!!!! Remember that song from the 80's? Things that make you go mmmmmm!

[Danno]

I saw the head on earlier and it was severe.

Megs Ferrari involved minimal wheel to wheel contact when it had only shifted out one cart max.

Fitzpatrick's filly was spent. She wobbled out four to five horses +, took the legs out of a filly certainly going by it.

The differences, 2nd v 1st against 5th v 1st. Awarding a race to a public elect in the first instance and taking a race away from the public elect in the the second.

Turnbull / Fitzpatrick v Sapio / McDowell. Certainly if first past the post today was Tritton and Panella, they have the race taken from them and the 7 day suspension is quadrupled.

Way before Megs, there is prejudice to what this mob does and doesn't do, queries or let's slide.

Bob, you have heard me bag the stipes plenty of times.....but....as stated earlier, in order for a protest to be upheld, it needs to be shown that the horse interfered with and subsequently protesting WOULD HAVE DEFINITLEY WON THE RACE without the interference, and whilst I agree wholeheartedly the interference was there and it was severe, ask yourself the question would the other have horse won? and when I looked at the race in that light there was doubt in my mind whether it would have.

Sure throw in the fact that one horse is an odds on pop...and there you get a little more doubt.

Line ball case whilst the interference was both obvious and substantial.

Cheers,
Dan

[Danno]

Have a look and tell me why we lost this race nobody i have spoken to can!http://www.trotstv.com.au/?mc=YU221113&rn=8!

Looked at that a number of times and IMO you are entitled to be perplexed, I would have been seeking an adequate explanation. because the video doesn't give one.

[kung fu man]

I emailed our beloved ceo but i think my email was intercepted before it got to him, not only were we a bit pissed about losing the prizemoney but the mare sat in the breeze broke the track record and in my opinion and a lot of others as well was that we should not have lost the race shes now retired and i dont know if i even want to breed fromher after that

[Richard prior]

Huge run, There was no way in the world the other horse was going to beat her and she was still in front 20 metres past the post. This is getting ridiculous, Surely the stewards need to front up and have some extra training or a refresher.

[kung fu man]

Its nice that other people feel the same way after watching the replay because you start to doubt yourself, i can imagine how the driver felt in the room trying to get her point across and nobody was listening it is very hard living with that decision still dont know what they saw that everyone else missed