Why the QDT in the Geelong Cup?

[Messenger]

I know with 2 from the one stable with one in the Death and the other having the 1x1, with the fav (Trigger) leading sounds like the recipe for team driving but there was no pressure put on Trigger, so why did Alex Ashwood get a QDT for his drive on Magical Telf?
http://media.harness.org.au/vic/GEC29031401.wmv

[p plater]

I guess the main reason would be that Magical Telf usually races best with cover and as you say no pressure applied to Smoken Up, but still finished 28.6m last. The owners of Magical Telf are also owners of the winner, so to give their main hope a nice suck along at a reasonable pace would be good tactics. Proving it with a junior on board is another matter.

[aussiebreno]

Where else was he supposed to go? Pull three wide and restrain to last? Those inside him went to the pegs, those outside him went back. It isn't Chillis go the death, it isn't Smudges go and Savesometimetodream is hardly going to come across from 7 to sit outside Trigger. What a ridiculous QDT.
I thought maybe Lance went to slow, but who knows Chilli probably too good this stage of their careers.

[Smoken]

Well done to the speedy CP! I also think Lance went to slow. Not saying the Champ would have won otherwise, only pointing out my opinion. If CP sat outside Trigger, most likely he would have finished as far back as MT, so he really needed to have his stable mate to be outside of Trigger. It's a hard one to try prove, as I can see both sides, even though my common sense tells me that MT's job last night was to give CP as much of a perfect tow in as he could have gotten, regardless where MT ended up finishing, which was nearly 29m last....

[p plater]

Where else was he supposed to go? Pull three wide and restrain to last? Those inside him went to the pegs, those outside him went back. It isn't Chillis go the death, it isn't Smudges go and Savesometimetodream is hardly going to come across from 7 to sit outside Trigger. What a ridiculous QDT.
I thought maybe Lance went to slow, but who knows Chilli probably too good this stage of their careers.

You're probably right but with so much class difference why not Chilli race in the death?

[Smoken]

They obviously want to preserve CP a lot more compared to MT, & since the owners own both MT & CP, they chose to have the inferior horse do the hard work to benefit of the superior horse...
Geeez, sounding like survival of the fittest/elitist conspiracies lol :p
CP is superior to MT ATM, but he needs a race to suit or he's toast! He can't do the work, but then why should MT had to when he is inferior? Can't see any other reason apart from the obvious ones!

[aussiebreno]

They obviously want to preserve CP a lot more compared to MT, & since the owners own both MT & CP, they chose to have the inferior horse do the hard work to benefit of the superior horse...
Geeez, sounding like survival of the fittest/elitist conspiracies lol :p
CP is superior to MT ATM, but he needs a race to suit or he's toast! He can't do the work, but then why should MT had to when he is inferior? Can't see any other reason apart from the obvious ones!So how should Magicsl Telf have been driven?

[Toohard]

I'm with brenno. He could have gone back to last but they weren't going breakneck speed. Got to the death without doing much work. Put him in the race and see what he can do. Else be out the back and they race along in single file and he probably finish out the back anyway. Was hanging bad last lap too.

Dunno Lance went too slow. Tight turns on that track. As brave as ever though.

Chilli showed amazing turn of foot when let down. Can run!!

[Smoken]

So how should Magicsl Telf have been driven?

I can't say for certain how else he could have been driven, but I do know that he gave his stable mate the perfect run into the final bend and that MT finish nearly 29m last.. Would he have finished 29m last if he opted for a peg/cover run?
I'm sure they knew that MT parking outside Trigger was not his go, regardless if they were going slow.
Like Bailey said, why couldn't Chilly go to the breeze since he is so superior to MT? Either he would have had the same fate as MT, or he could have finished closer than 28.6m last..

[Maorisidol]

So how should Magicsl Telf have been driven?

He had the opportunity to sit 4 pegs, not a great spot of course but when your other choice is the death seat, and you're driving a sit sprint horse over 2570 following 3 horses who will definitely take you forward as opposed to stop in your face, i would've taken the pegs and run 4th most probably...as opposed to suicide and no chance of prize money for the owners. Its a drivers job to give his/her horse the best possible chance regardless of any other horse in the race who coincidently may be owned by same people.
At the start MT's driver turns his head 3 times watching the horse directly behind him, who happens to be Chili, as if he is ensuring the line for the tug boat to is attached, the line is confirmed to be on so let the tow into the race begin...Was watching live as this was unfolding and thought it not the right decision for MT to death seat so a bit obvious for me.
And because he is obviously not a death horse why sit so far forward? normally someone who didn't want to be there would hang back a length or 2 giving other drivers the notion the chair is available...
Lets ask this, if Chili wasn't in the race would MT have sat in the death, and as far forward as he did??????? Certainly he put no pressure on Lance but a sit sprinter just doesn't go there or more to the point over 2570 want to stay there.
hence, QDT.

[Mighty Atom]

They obviously want to preserve CP a lot more compared to MT, & since the owners own both MT & CP, they chose to have the inferior horse do the hard work to benefit of the superior horse...
Geeez, sounding like survival of the fittest/elitist conspiracies lol :p
CP is superior to MT ATM, but he needs a race to suit or he's toast! He can't do the work, but then why should MT had to when he is inferior? Can't see any other reason apart from the obvious ones!

Gday Smoken,
Stable driving tactics is a regular occurrence as I pointed out in a previous comment but had it removed. Both Mt and CP eased back at the start and with no other driver wanting the death MT ambled up to face the breeze and CP latching on, it was a lay down misere. Trigger is now facing the gauntlet of having to fight off all the young guns in his races which is no easy task, But with your comments that CP needs a race to suit or he's toast reminds me of similar remarks regarding a certain ITMQ and Chilli Palmer IS the new ITMQ. He is a super horse and its no disgrace that Smoken Up was beaten by him considering Chilli Palmer had the pie run.

[Smoken]

Gday Smoken,
Stable driving tactics is a regular occurrence as I pointed out in a previous comment but had it removed. Both Mt and CP eased back at the start and with no other driver wanting the death MT ambled up to face the breeze and CP latching on, it was a lay down misere. Trigger is now facing the gauntlet of having to fight off all the young guns in his races which is no easy task, But with your comments that CP needs a race to suit or he's toast reminds me of similar remarks regarding a certain ITMQ and Chilli Palmer IS the new ITMQ. He is a super horse and its no disgrace that Smoken Up was beaten by him considering Chilli Palmer had the pie run.

Hi mate.
I seriously do believe that if CP had MT's run, he would have finished down the track, not sure about 28.6m last, but very possible. Do you think that CP and ITMQ do not need a race to suit them, and that they can't rough it out from the start, whether leading or sitting parked and doing the work?
I love the sprints of ITMQ and CP, but I cannot say that they can race like Trigger, then again we aren't sure if Trigger could have raced like those 2 if driven a lot more conservatively.

[Maorisidol]

Hi mate.
I seriously do believe that if CP had MT's run, he would have finished down the track, not sure about 28.6m last, but very possible. Do you think that CP and ITMQ do not need a race to suit them, and that they can't rough it out from the start, whether leading or sitting parked and doing the work?
I love the sprints of ITMQ and CP, but I cannot say that they can race like Trigger, then again we aren't sure if Trigger could have raced like those 2 if driven a lot more conservatively.

Word of warning Smoken!
Don't go there on this topic with Mighty Atom/Rod or Aussiebreno!
Very sensitive, back away slowly and pretend you never asked...been there done that, its like kicking a hornets nest on the ground then jumping into it with no clothes on!
(tongue in cheek fellas!)

[aussiebreno]

Word of warning Smoken!
Don't go there on this topic with Mighty Atom/Rod or Aussiebreno!
Very sensitive, back away slowly and pretend you never asked...been there done that, its like kicking a hornets nest on the ground then jumping into it with no clothes on!
(tongue in cheek fellas!)
Yes its understandable why you wouldn't want to talk about that.

[Messenger]

IMO MT did not necessarily look for the death, he just ended up there, you could interpret Alex's long look to the right 37sec into the replay as looking for someone to take the D or looking to see CP's posn - I think the latter as he was hanging back. As for going 4F ie pocketed last, rather go slow in death early and hope something will come around (and yes I know he has the benefit of giving his stablemate the 1x1 if it does not eventuate). As for the suggestion that CP should have taken the death off of him - REALLY! (If you ever get great seats for the GF and want to swap them for standing room just pm me)

[Smoken]

Trigger is a Champion, Quinny is a Champion, CP has a very very long way to go to come close to both those mentioned.
Going back to the original topic, I really don't have an absolute right or wrong answer regarding what MT should have or could have done, but the way I look at it is, he simply gave CP the best ever ride into the race without any hesitation where MT would have finished up, which was as I've repeated a few times 28.6m last. It was so obvious before the race was even run that that was going to happen. It is what it is but I wouldn't say it's right in a moral/ethical sense.
I felt bad watching MT compound the way he did, which I believe could have been avoided from the start.

[brent_L]

As Messenger pointed out earlier, it did appear positions came about through circumstances. That said, I've got no qualms with the QDT. Let's not go overboard, it's not like there was an inquiry!
If that speed map was predicted CP would have been 2/5.

[Mighty Atom]

Word of warning Smoken!
Don't go there on this topic with Mighty Atom/Rod or Aussiebreno!
Very sensitive, back away slowly and pretend you never asked...been there done that, its like kicking a hornets nest on the ground then jumping into it with no clothes on!
(tongue in cheek fellas!)

HaHa Ash, I couldn't of been that bad.