Consolation races

[aussiebreno]

The fascination with big money consolation races has to end.

They are a consolation, not nearly as big as the main thing.

Abettorpunt beaten 27m in Inter heat. Won $60,000 for what is really the Inter consolation. Monifeith picked up $15K for 2nd. Restrepo, Keayang Cullen, Mach Beauty gave them other two a towel up in the heats, yet only got $15K prizemoney in the real thing.

The APG consolation winner this week gets a cool $25K. That is more than the 4th horse in the final. When you have Purdons, Thackerays and McCarthys filly in the race (not to mention quite a few other nice fillies) 4th is going to be a damn good result. Yet the 11th best filly gets more prizemoney than the 4th best filly. It doesn't seem fair to me.

[mightymo]

The fascination with big money consolation races has to end.

They are a consolation, not nearly as big as the main thing.

Abettorpunt beaten 27m in Inter heat. Won $60,000 for what is really the Inter consolation. Monifeith picked up $15K for 2nd. Restrepo, Keayang Cullen, Mach Beauty gave them other two a towel up in the heats, yet only got $15K prizemoney in the real thing.

The APG consolation winner this week gets a cool $25K. That is more than the 4th horse in the final. When you have Purdons, Thackerays and McCarthys filly in the race (not to mention quite a few other nice fillies) 4th is going to be a damn good result. Yet the 11th best filly gets more prizemoney than the 4th best filly. It doesn't seem fair to me.

i have to agree with you Brendan. Im all for having a consolation race, BUT last place in the main race has to be worth more than first place in the consolation.

PS - the consolation race is also a Gr 2!

[Bonnie]

I too have an issue with the APG Consolation Race for the 2 year old fillies. I am quoting from th APG Terms and Conditions Of Race Series 24. " Section 9.0 CONSOLATION FINALS - FOR HORSES THAT COMPETED IN THE SEMI - FINALS BUT FAILED TO QUALIFY FOR THE FINAL. One Consolation Final per sex shall be conducted for horses that competed in the semi finals but failed to qualify for the Final. The Consolation Final for each sex shall be conducted in the same State as the Final."

There are 2 horses in the 2 year old fillies Consolation Final @ Menangle ( Race 2 ) on Sunday that did not even contest a heat let alone a semi final. I refer to Priority Pass and Sunshine Hannigan. There are 8 fillies who have raced in accordance with the above conditions and have earned their right to contest the Consolation. Eight horses constitute a field and no further nominations should have been sought by APG. However, under Clause 15 ( I assume ) the Board Of Directors of APG decided to run the Consolation with a full field and invited nominations. Clause 15 basically gives Directors the right to do as they please.

I see no valid reason for the inclusion of these 2 fillies. They have received a " free shot ' at a $50,000 race. They had their opportunity to nominate and contest a heat in their home State and as they chose not to , they should be ineligible for the Consolation. Why should they receive preferential treatment? They come into this race fresh, whereas some other fillies and their trainers/ stablehands travelled from interstate to contest the semis last Saturday night and have had to remain in NSW for next Sundays racing. Owners of these fillies have incurred considerable costs and have done everything in accordance with the rules.

In my opionion APG have a lot to answer for . There are many disgruntled owners who question their decision to pay up for these races when you don't get a fair go.

[Richard prior]

Great topic Breno, I was going to be a little more generous until Harvey and Anne commented. First of all, Totally agree with Harvey, APG could have easily taken $20,000 off the Consolation and put more into the Gold Final field, There's no way a winner of the Consolation should receive more than the last place horse in the APG final, I also have a problem with the Group status of the race, Probably should be a Group 3 at the Maximum. Sure there would be hard luck story's from the Heats and Semi's but all horses have had more than one chance to strut their stuff. There would be room for the placegetters from 6th to 10th in the main race to earn the equivalent of what the winner of the Consolation would receive. I have to fully agree with Anne as well, Where does the APG board of directors get off including 2 wild cards who haven't competed in any of the lead up races, They should be ineligible for the final and I would be more inclined to have the eight horses in the Consolation and pay $2000 from 6th to 8th and this would be a far better option for the owners and trainers who have battled on in the heats and semi's.

[Danno]

I'm inclined to disagree with you all,

Firstly, a consolation race is "exactly" that...had no luck in the heats, heres another chance to earn some $$ for being involved in the series. The arguement that 6th to 10th in the final should get more than the winner of a consolation is basically the work of elitists...it's a consolation...what about the horses that are very talented but were "shortened up", "knocked over" or just had no luck in running at all???? Have the owners of those horses not paid up for the series?? have they not paid up for their training/vet/farrier etc, etc.....people, take a moment, the world is not designed just for your benefit.

In relation to the horses that were included late,how can you validly claim they have had a "free shot" they have obviously paid their fees to be included in the series, but you people would deny them the chance to get something back??, these horses were not laying around in the paddock, the owners of these horses have incurred similar costs to yours so where do you think they have not earned the right of inclusion????

Greed is a growing issue in our society, as is elitism.

[aussiebreno]

I'm inclined to disagree with you all,

Firstly, a consolation race is "exactly" that...had no luck in the heats, heres another chance to earn some $$ for being involved in the series. The arguement that 6th to 10th in the final should get more than the winner of a consolation is basically the work of elitists...it's a consolation...what about the horses that are very talented but were "shortened up", "knocked over" or just had no luck in running at all???? Have the owners of those horses not paid up for the series?? have they not paid up for their training/vet/farrier etc, etc.....people, take a moment, the world is not designed just for your benefit.

In relation to the horses that were included late,how can you validly claim they have had a "free shot" they have obviously paid their fees to be included in the series, but you people would deny them the chance to get something back??, these horses were not laying around in the paddock, the owners of these horses have incurred similar costs to yours so where do you think they have not earned the right of inclusion????

Greed is a growing issue in our society, as is elitism.
Danno, if a horse gets a check in the final and finishes 100m last is APG putting on a consolation for them next week? Bad luck can happen anytime or anywhere. This year I don't think there was any hard luck stories from the semis anyway, they just simply weren't good enough and the field as a whole isn't really worthy of G2 status.
In the case of Sunshine Hannigan, I have no idea what the planning process was and quite possible it was just by chance she is running this week. But in all likelihood she would be an also run in the final. Why not wait for the consolation where she is a big chance of winning and getting a G2 next to her name. If we're talking elitist, Bernie Kelly and his breed is as elite as they come, a G2 win will just enhance that eliteness whilst the filly who runs fourth in the final gets diddly squat.
We had a query on the forum just a couple days about a horse possibly not being driven to win. We hate that as an industry. But If you are 20m back running third in a Bathurst heat or sixth in an APG heat why bother trying to qualify for the final. Pull it up and go round in the consolation!

[Danno]

Brendan,
I think if we are going to base our arguements on "this horse and these circumstances" we will forever be running in circles, the issue as I see it is do we have a consolation? how much is it worth? and who is eliglible?
I have never in my forty years as a licenced person ( got my permit on my sixteenth birthday Feb 1974) seen one solitary instance of a consolation having less prizmoney for the winner than the unplaced runners in the final, mate that sort of mentality is breaking new ground.

Spare a thought for the not quite so lucky, they have contributed just as much as the fortunate.

Cheers,
Dan

[mightymo]

Lets say you have a nice filly, but not a top one who makes it to the APG semis. Instead of trying to finish in the top 5 and make the final, you are better off letting the horse sit last and finish 6-10th and then be eligible for a 50K race where you are a good chance to win??

How is that good for the sport??

This is nothing about elitism - its about common sense.

Why dont we let all first round losers at wimbledon go into the plate comp and play for prizemoney that is more than the qtr finalists get?? What a load of nonsense!!

[Bonnie]

I'm inclined to disagree with you all,

Firstly, a consolation race is "exactly" that...had no luck in the heats, heres another chance to earn some $$ for being involved in the series. The arguement that 6th to 10th in the final should get more than the winner of a consolation is basically the work of elitists...it's a consolation...what about the horses that are very talented but were "shortened up", "knocked over" or just had no luck in running at all???? Have the owners of those horses not paid up for the series?? have they not paid up for their training/vet/farrier etc, etc.....people, take a moment, the world is not designed just for your benefit.

In relation to the horses that were included late,how can you validly claim they have had a "free shot" they have obviously paid their fees to be included in the series, but you people would deny them the chance to get something back??, these horses were not laying around in the paddock, the owners of these horses have incurred similar costs to yours so where do you think they have not earned the right of inclusion????

Greed is a growing issue in our society, as is elitism.

It has nothing to do with elitism. If you enter a competition you play by the rules. Heats for the APG Series are held in Victoria, Queensland and New South Wales, giving every eligible horse the opportunity to race in the series. You are even allowed to select the venue that best suits your needs and the race dates are specified in the Sale Catalogue when you purchase or pay up for your yearling over 12 months prior to the heats.
In Victoria there is a football competition called the AFL , if you don' t play every game you don't play finals. I think you will find that rule applies in most sports.
You cannot change the rules after the game has started. This destroys the integrity of the completion, sadly something that Harness Racing is striving for.

[mightymo]

nobody has said lets not have a consolation. i think a consolation is a great idea, but not with Gr 2 status and where the winner of the consolation gets almost as much as the third horse in the main event

[mightymo]

I can easily fix the problem. Take 30K off from the cosolation. Make 5th place in the final worth 16K and make 6-10th worth 11K. You then run a 20K consolation where the winner gets 10K.

Problem solved!

[eliteblood]

Both Priority Pass and Sunshine Hanigan were in the heats scheduled to be run at Menangle on April 5.
When the meeting was transferred to Newcastle due to the state of the track, Sunshine Hanigan scratched. I note that Priority Pass was a late scratching.
Maybe this explains their inclusion in the consolation.

[Danno]

I agree Harvey that a consolation plate at wimbleton would be nonsense, but we are not talking about a tennis tournament so that argument is completely irrelevant.

Elitism and common sense rarely go hand in hand as well.

Anne if the rules have been contravened then your argument would be valid, but apparently the rules have not been so in effect your point is also completely irrelevant.Oh and by the way the AFL analogy doesnt hold water similarly to the wimbelton one offerd by Harvey.

I wonder what your views would be if your one and only pride and joy missed a spot in the final?, but they didn't did they?

[Bonnie]

Whilst I acknowledge your explanation regarding Newcastle there was a spot available in the semi finals. That is , there was only 9 in one semi final. APG endeavoured to fill that place, why didn't either of these horses accept. If we can assume that they were not eligible for the semi final , what entitles them to a run in the consolation( $50,000) as opposed to the semi worth $30,000. Does a Group 2 with more prize money and lesser ranked horses have more appeal. If travel is an issue it didn't deter us travelling Queen Of Pop from Warragul for 11 hours.

[Bonnie]

Danno,I have previously been in the position where my pride and joy missed a spot in the APG Final. Guess what ; I picked myself up and got on with life. With over 40 years of breeding horses and a family history of horse ownership I have had my share of disappointments. It's a roller coaster ride and I enjoy and appreciate every win . When the going gets tough the tough get going.

[aussiebreno]

Brendan,
I think if we are going to base our arguements on "this horse and these circumstances" we will forever be running in circles, the issue as I see it is do we have a consolation? how much is it worth? and who is eliglible?
I have never in my forty years as a licenced person ( got my permit on my sixteenth birthday Feb 1974) seen one solitary instance of a consolation having less prizmoney for the winner than the unplaced runners in the final, mate that sort of mentality is breaking new ground.

Spare a thought for the not quite so lucky, they have contributed just as much as the fortunate.

Cheers,
Dan
I agree re this horses and these circumstances which is why I didn't mention any bad luck stories in opening post. It was only in response to you suggesting a horse may have received bad luck in semis.
Most consolations are still C races. Not G1 and G2 like the ones I mentioned. Bit hard for a $7000 C0 final or the like to have a consolation with much smaller prize money so that's not what I am suggesting, just these big money races. These big money consolation races weren't around when I was 16 (5 yrs ago) let alone when you were. Inter consolation a G2 and worth a smaller amount in comparison to the final and no APG consolation at all.

Further to Wimbledon and AFL I will note swimming and athletics who run the heat semi final format. But I'm not going as far as to suggest no consolation at all just a fairer system of payouts. Remember finishing 4th isn't necessary elite and can just as easily be a battler. A consolation is a small compensation for a loss, not a juicier reward than one who qualified for the final.

[arlington]

I agree with the point raised by the original poster in regards to the juvenile race but not sure about the I D comparison.


A $50,000 consolation is a nice inducement to get as many horses as possible to participate in the series, and come back/stay for a consolation, but irrespective of prize money level they should have to compete throughout the entire series. Possibly a waiver if there was a drastic change to the original conditions e.g. transferred from Menangle to a 1/2 mile track. ($50000 consolation is a nice inducement to pay up on the fall of the hammer sale day, and bid up in the first place)
Post #11, Harvey's distribution of stakes. Something along those lines but need to consider would interstate and NZ horses come back/stay?


A conditioned, juvenile futurity consolation with Group 2 status? In the case of the fillies you have to wonder when it comes time for those entering the breeding barn.
Competed in APG Final (maybe 2nd in Edgar Tatlow etc. being open to all comers) versus Winner Group 2. Hardly seems right.


The Inter Dom series, in it's current format, has a pseudo consolation so I guess not a definitive consolation. Maybe another way of looking at it, would not the connections of the winner of the Bohemia Crystal preferred to have been in the I D Final irrespective of prize money? Similarly I wouldn't think the connections of the unplaced ID finalists would be envious of Abettorpunt, certainly not prior to the running of the races? For me, it would be as much about the achievement, striving to reach an I D final. I guess it's a bit like the mare, Ladyship or I D...Franco Nelson, which way would he have gone if there was an early scratching from a great barrier draw?

[cyclone george]

A better idea would be to add 20 grand or so for 3 year olds for the 3 year old filly. Make all the fillys that made the 2 year old final ineligeable. So next year on Sunday you could have had these horses that made the consolation (dont run the consalation) this year another chance with all the others that weren't up to it at this stage (like half the ones in the consolation this Sunday) with qualification like the jewels highest money earners,or most wins etc . Spred the money around a bit ,with this idea the dominant filly/colt doesn't win all the gold money . Dominant horses have got plenty of scope to win plenty of money and they can't race in everything.

[aussiebreno]

Two words: Supersonic Miss.