ABC Qld Heat Stewards Penalties

[Richard prior]

Bart Cockburn got 8 weeks for his drive on Bling it On last night at AP.

[jackthepunter]

Bart Cockburn got 8 weeks for his drive on Bling it On last night at AP.
Forgot about watching it last night just check results first half in 68.7, fm they wouldn't go that slow in trackwork they both should have got 8 weeks. What an embarrassment for the sport to have 2 horses of that quality race like that, regradless of it being a 2 horse race.

[Richard prior]

Totally agree Jack, Dixon should have got the same holiday or more as he was driving the leader after all and was responsible for setting the pace.

[trish]

Dixon gets charged with setting an excessively slow pace & Cockburn gets charged with not giving his horse the best chance to win (basically).
The excessively slow pace rule was put in place to guarantee drivers following that they wouldn't have to bust their horses to try & force the pace.
I think Cockburn should have protested. He's well within his rights & this rule is yet to be tested under protest.( that I know of ).
Cockburn IMO did nothing wrong.

[jackthepunter]

Dixon gets charged with setting an excessively slow pace & Cockburn gets charged with not giving his horse the best chance to win (basically).
The excessively slow pace rule was put in place to guarantee drivers following that they wouldn't have to bust their horses to try & force the pace.
I think Cockburn should have protested. He's well within his rights & this rule is yet to be tested under protest.( that I know of ).
Cockburn IMO did nothing wrong. your got to be joking if bling it on not good enough to sit outside that horse in a 2 horse race running a first half in 2-3 then get back home in 57-56 I'll eat my hat.

[trish]

your got to be joking if bling it on not good enough to sit outside that horse in a 2 horse race running a first half in 2-3 then get back home in 57-56 I'll eat my hat.

What sort of sauce would you like with your hat ? Dixon's horse is obviously pretty good . Didn't he come from behind Bling It On and run him to a head/neck in the Derby . Pretty serious horse ?

[jackthepunter]

So if u owned bling it on u be happy for him to sit up in a 2 horse race like that with first half on 68.7 get real

[Richard prior]

Hi Trish, I'm going to retract my earlier comment as I think that Dixon deserved the harsher penalty but there's always a risk of these slow early fractions in these silly 2 horse affairs, No doubt that both horses are very classy.

[trish]

So if u owned bling it on u be happy for him to sit up in a 2 horse race like that with first half on 68.7 get real

Hi Jack . Bling It On sat outside Ya Ya's Hot Spot and couldn't run past him . He was beaten . No one knows what would have happened but the slow sectional rule was there to protect him from having to do anything . To answer your question , I would have been happy for him to sit there knowing he's been vulnerable in the death before . He may have been driving to instruction . Harvey might clear that up for us .

[trish]

Hi Trish, I'm going to retract my earlier comment as I think that Dixon deserved the harsher penalty but there's always a risk of these slow early fractions in these silly 2 horse affairs, No doubt that both horses are very classy.


Always Richard. Lets face it both these top horses will be contesting the semi finals & probably the final. I certainly wouldn't sack Bart for his drive & IMO didn't deserve
questioning , let alone time.

[jackthepunter]

Hi Jack . Bling It On sat outside Ya Ya's Hot Spot and couldn't run past him . He was beaten . No one knows what would have happened but the slow sectional rule was there to protect him from having to do anything . To answer your question , I would have been happy for him to sit there knowing he's been vulnerable in the death before . He may have been driving to instruction . Harvey might clear that up for us .

My only reply can be this, bling it on wins Qld derby over 2,680 rating 157.2 beating alleluia by 9.5meters and ya ya's hot spot by 13meters. Sits back early then charges to the lead at wins under double wraps. Yet you think siting up over 2,138 in a 2 horse race going 2.5. 7 is an acceptable drive thats warrants no questions to be asked of a ill judge at best terrible drive that also warrents no suspension. You and me are on different planets

[trish]

My only reply can be this, bling it on wins Qld derby over 2,680 rating 157.2 beating alleluia by 9.5meters and ya ya's hot spot by 13meters. Sits back early then charges to the lead at wins under double wraps. Yet you think siting up over 2,138 in a 2 horse race going 2.5. 7 is an acceptable drive thats warrants no questions to be asked of a ill judge at best terrible drive that also warrents no suspension. You and me are on different planets

That's fine . but outside Ya Yah's can't win . Only the future will tell us whether it was a silly drive or not . This is what forums are all about .I'm going to have a dollar each way on Alleluia in the final . Good luck to everyone in it . They're not the only 2 .

[brent_L]

That's fine . but outside Ya Yah's can't win . Only the future will tell us whether it was a silly drive or not . This is what forums are all about .I'm going to have a dollar each way on Alleluia in the final . Good luck to everyone in it . They're not the only 2 .
Don't back down Trish, u r 100% on the ball! Jack, do your form! Bling is a champion 3yo in his own right but the fact is, he is extremely vulnerable when not in front (which is why $6 Dixons horse last night was a steal). Go back thru his form and u will be lucky to find more than 2 victories in decent class where he has won from behind. That said, he still has the right to the mantle of best 3yo in the land and congrats to him.
If what was posted earlier is true and Cockburn got 8 weeks then we should all be eating our hats. There's nothing whatsoever he could have done that would have changed the outcome of that race. Fine Dixon for loitering and move on!

Where the bloody hell are we at when in the space of 3 days we have a driver in Melb given 4 weeks for trying to unhinge the favs chances to his own good by going 'too quick' and a driver in Bris sitting behind (where he was drawn to be mind you) a driver going 'too slow' getting 8 weeks?? Anyone for a lottery ticket??

[jackthepunter]

Don't back down Trish, u r 100% on the ball! Jack, do your form! Bling is a champion 3yo in his own right but the fact is, he is extremely vulnerable when not in front (which is why $6 Dixons horse last night was a steal). Go back thru his form and u will be lucky to find more than 2 victories in decent class where he has won from behind. That said, he still has the right to the mantle of best 3yo in the land and congrats to him.
If what was posted earlier is true and Cockburn got 8 weeks then we should all be eating our hats. There's nothing whatsoever he could have done that would have changed the outcome of that race. Fine Dixon for loitering and move on!

Where the bloody hell are we at when in the space of 3 days we have a driver in Melb given 4 weeks for trying to unhinge the favs chances to his own good by going 'too quick' and a driver in Bris sitting behind (where he was drawn to be mind you) a driver going 'too slow' getting 8 weeks?? Anyone for a lottery ticket??

how about go a sit outside the other horse and run the first half in 2-3 then run home as quick as you can, its call a race for a reason, Not an 800meter barrier trail.Their always something a driver can do to change a result, its called taking a chance, not just sitting their like its trackwork.

[Race For Fun]

It's ok to knock a drive, but you see drives where all a driver has to do is qualify for a final and stewards do nothing (not saying that happened here, just saying it happens). We don't know what the driving instructions were. If he pulls out and sits outside the leader and still gets beat the driver still gets bagged for their drive. If you run along and win great drive, if it doesn't come off not so good.

[Mighty Atom]

Always difficult to predict a two horse match race especially with two very good horses. The sectionals were a disgrace, but you drive your horse to win. Bling it on was travelling comfortably behind Alleluia and obviously Cockburn thought he could outsprint him even though they ran home in 54:8. On the replay it looks as though Bling It On was a little disappointing but as I said match races are unpredictable and as for the stewards applying a go slow penalty - not in a two horse race. I've got a bigger contention with the miserable stake money, in WA we have bigger stake money for races run at Kellerberrin some 204 kilometres from Perth. Four and a half thousand dollars for an Australasian Breeders Crown is an absolute disgrace. The Queensland winter carnival must have emptied the coffers.

[kung fu man]

I guess thats the difference between driving in a race and thinking you can drive in a race because you watch them a lot,they really dont have much of an idea

[brent_L]

how about go a sit outside the other horse and run the first half in 2-3 then run home as quick as you can, its call a race for a reason, Not an 800meter barrier trail.Their always something a driver can do to change a result, its called taking a chance, not just sitting their like its trackwork.
We're obviously going to have to agree to disagree Jack. Bling is a high speed (very high speed) horse and whilst I won't go as far to say that he isn't tough, he is without doubt less formidable outside the leader. He had been beaten a total of 8 starts before the other night, all of which were when he raced away from the pegs (his only 2 unplaced efforts have come when death-seating).....he is 19 for 19 on the pegs (18 leading + the APG when he sat behind the stablemate). So with that, I thought he was less than a 50-50 chance the other night if Dixon decided to keep the front and subsequently I was totally knocked for six when I read that his driver had been rubbed out for 8 weeks.
Cheers

[jackthepunter]

We're obviously going to have to agree to disagree Jack. Bling is a high speed (very high speed) horse and whilst I won't go as far to say that he isn't tough, he is without doubt less formidable outside the leader. He had been beaten a total of 8 starts before the other night, all of which were when he raced away from the pegs (his only 2 unplaced efforts have come when death-seating).....he is 19 for 19 on the pegs (18 leading + the APG when he sat behind the stablemate). So with that, I thought he was less than a 50-50 chance the other night if Dixon decided to keep the front and subsequently I was totally knocked for six when I read that his driver had been rubbed out for 8 weeks.
Cheers

I agree with some of your points because stats don't lie. The only point I was trying to make is it was a 2 horse race, their wasn't other 8-9 behind him to run over the top of him so the worst he could do was second. So why not make a race of it, given with recent racing surely his pretty fit why not have a go and see what happens.
I might be wrong but given he ran second he now has to go around in a repechage. Good debate though :)

[trish]

https://twitter.com/AdamTABSports/status/492886130165964800

Just found Harvey's answer.
I agree 100% with him.
Cheers

[Danno]

Back closer to the thread topic

Im The Boss and Julian going around in the first at Cranbourne at 5.19
Has he appealed?

He'd be mad not to, as will Bart, seriously guys in a 2 horse, he is driving one that has finished in sub 26 before and was entitled to think he could run down the leader, as for Grant Dixon, he did everything in his power to win the race ( which, by the way folks is his PRIMARY job) and gets fined for doing so.

I despise the slow sectionals rule because it wants you to hand the race on a platter to the OTHER horses, not the one you are supposed to be trying to win on!!!

Both the suspension and the fine are an indication of the quality of the rules we have in place and the some of people who administer those rules.

cheers,
Dan

[mightymo]

As the managing owner of Bling It On, I feel the need to respond so that everyone knows where we stand.

1. I have never met nor spoken to Bart Cockburn in my life so have no reason to defend him.
2. I think Bart was dealt with in an extremely harsh manner.
3. We were very disappointed that BIO was beaten, but had no issue with the drive.
4. It was a 2 horse race. Alleluia was driven to beat BIO. Had Bart gone to sit outside Alleluia at an earlier stage, Grant would have just turned the heat on earlier as there was no danger of being swamped by another runner getting a good trip.
5. Personally, I would have actually preferred Bart sat in behind Alleluia until the top of the straight and then use BIO's extreme speed to get over the top of Alleluia.
6. if we had drawn 1, I would expect BIO would have been driven in the exact same fashion as Alleluia was
7. People are forgetting Alleliua is a very, very good horse who ran 2nd to us in 3 Gr races recently and ran very good races on each occasion.
8. In summary, I dont understand what Bart was expected to do. Had he gone and put pressure on from the 1600m, then we as owners would have been disappointed and I dare say those tactics IMO would have then been circumstances for him to be charged under the rule that he has in fact been charged.


Hope that explains a few things.

[Messenger]

Excellent thanks Harvey

[Mighty Atom]

As the managing owner of Bling It On, I feel the need to respond so that everyone knows where we stand.

1. I have never met nor spoken to Bart Cockburn in my life so have no reason to defend him.
2. I think Bart was dealt with in an extremely harsh manner.
3. We were very disappointed that BIO was beaten, but had no issue with the drive.
4. It was a 2 horse race. Alleluia was driven to beat BIO. Had Bart gone to sit outside Alleluia at an earlier stage, Grant would have just turned the heat on earlier as there was no danger of being swamped by another runner getting a good trip.
5. Personally, I would have actually preferred Bart sat in behind Alleluia until the top of the straight and then use BIO's extreme speed to get over the top of Alleluia.
6. if we had drawn 1, I would expect BIO would have been driven in the exact same fashion as Alleluia was
7. People are forgetting Alleliua is a very, very good horse who ran 2nd to us in 3 Gr races recently and ran very good races on each occasion.
8. In summary, I dont understand what Bart was expected to do. Had he gone and put pressure on from the 1600m, then we as owners would have been disappointed and I dare say those tactics IMO would have then been circumstances for him to be charged under the rule that he has in fact been charged.


Hope that explains a few things.

I agree with you Harvey especially point 5.

[brent_L]

They probably double his 8 weeks if he waited that long!!

SHAME SHAME SHAME

[broncobrad]

I don't think Harvey has to justify anything in regard to BIO's or Bartons drive...it was a two horse race. One has to win. The wrong one won. That's racing. Dixon simply out drove Cockburn. Grant has a bloody sight more experience in the game that Barton has. Credit where credit is due. I hate the slow sectional rule...to win a race and cop a fine is just pitiful and makes the sport a laughing stock.


Lucky enough to watch Bling It On just beat Alleluia and Yaya's at ground level in a very exciting Gold Coast Derby at AP 12/7/14...three very good three year olds running 1.56.2, I don't think the cloud placed over them by the stewards since then is justified...in saying that, the full stewards report is still not posted on HRA website yet.

[broncobrad]

Stewards report available today


http://www.harness.org.au/stewards-reports-detail.cfm?mc=AP250714

[Messenger]

As the managing owner of Bling It On, I feel the need to respond so that everyone knows where we stand.

1. I have never met nor spoken to Bart Cockburn in my life so have no reason to defend him.
2. I think Bart was dealt with in an extremely harsh manner.
3. We were very disappointed that BIO was beaten, but had no issue with the drive.
4. It was a 2 horse race. Alleluia was driven to beat BIO. Had Bart gone to sit outside Alleluia at an earlier stage, Grant would have just turned the heat on earlier as there was no danger of being swamped by another runner getting a good trip.
5. Personally, I would have actually preferred Bart sat in behind Alleluia until the top of the straight and then use BIO's extreme speed to get over the top of Alleluia.
6. if we had drawn 1, I would expect BIO would have been driven in the exact same fashion as Alleluia was
7. People are forgetting Alleliua is a very, very good horse who ran 2nd to us in 3 Gr races recently and ran very good races on each occasion.
8. In summary, I dont understand what Bart was expected to do. Had he gone and put pressure on from the 1600m, then we as owners would have been disappointed and I dare say those tactics IMO would have then been circumstances for him to be charged under the rule that he has in fact been charged.


Hope that explains a few things.

Maybe the stewards needed to hear pt 3 as they think you expected the lead according to their report
8 wks WOW You would think they had found some questionable betting! Just being over officious

[Richard prior]

Gotta feel for poor Bart, He's been copping it left, right and centre since his drive on Avonnova, IMHO the penalty is far to harsh.

[Mister JayKO]

It's an amazing response all things being considered as to how Bart got 8 weeks. The Dixon horse is a seriously good horse and I actually thought Grant should have shown more initiative at the previous run and he may have possibly won that as well. The stewards default was that Bling It On was unbeatable, it wasn't and in the same situation most drivers be they armchair or real would have adopted similar tactics. Truly a poor understanding of the circumstances which doesn't endear confidence.

[Toohard]

Appeal Upheld

[brent_L]

Appeal Upheld
Sanity prevails!!

[HISGEN65]

there seems to be a lot of scrutiny with regards to drives in heats of series - for good reason I might add - after all punters keep the industry going