Sam's Replacement. (Musical chairs)

[teecee]

http://www.harness.org.au/news-article.cfm?news_id=24102

[Messenger]

Amazing how they spend good money on recruiting to make an in-house appointment. Behind the sale of HP - that is not necessarily a credit

[Mister JayKO]

Hi Kev
I read your posts with interest and great empathy, but sadly, people of your ilk and many on this board are few and far between. Harness Racing is in terminal decline, the sport here mirrors what happens in the US and that unfortunately is solely based on wagering. Hobbyists once the backbone of the industry will soon be eradicated. Country tracks will gradually go out of commission. I was once a member of Harold Park, but the type of action and excitement that witnessed there every Friday night has long since passed. I can recall far from the glory days of HP with an ensemble of wags and punters and bookmakers that made it a very entertaining night, where the recently resigned CEO (then in another guise) would interact with us freely as we all sought to identify a winner and who was going and who was not.


It's not hard to see where the sport is heading, the shift to Menangle & Melton have long term implications that will only see the replication of US racing, which in general lacks the engagement of half mile / five eighths tracks. I know you love Stawell, may I suggest Mt Gambier on a Saturday night - very hard to beat.


The biggest issue facing the industry is unquestionably the drug question. If Lance Armstrong didn't set off alarm bells in the industry then nothing well. I applaud the work being done here, but you don't need to be Einstein to work out that the chemists remain way ahead of the testers. The recent publication of cobalt threshold tests cast further doubt on what is already a questionable area. The "horsemen" who can magically "improve" horses within weeks must be feeding and working there horses very differently to everyone else.


I feel for the honest hard working hobbyists and semi pro participants who actually keep the game alive only to be effectively cheated out of a chance to race on a level playing field, it's a disgrace. Perhaps they should have built that straight one mile track at Maryborough with no access for patrons, pretty soon that's all you will have left.


As for the move from HP to Menangle, I know the facility is probably fantastic, but I've only been once and I found it soulless and so far away from HP that I never went back. When I was frequenting HP, Mr V'Landys was in charge and he was only interested in one thing and that was getting every dollar he could from you, his offsider used to be referred to as Dumb and Dumber, now he is the CEO of HRNSW! Realistically, Harold Park was becoming increasingly hard to get to for participants but there should have been a middle earth option.


I suppose the rock bottom for me occurred on Tuesday morning, I switched on the box to check the news and saw a couple of people at Bankstown with a mob of camels, I then started reading some of the propaganda emanating from the Directors and just shook my head, that's what it's come to.

[Messenger]

Good to hear from you Stu. Starting at the end I shook my head when I saw the camels.

I know TeeCee does not like the drugs being brought up all the time but many are asking WHAT and HOW to the following statement of yours

The "horsemen" who can magically "improve" horses within weeks must be feeding and working there horses very differently to everyone else.

Time is crucial if we are to prosper rather than decline, it seems to me that there are people with a wealth of experience (and that is not me) who are being ignored because they are asking the hard questions.

I like to think that Stawell is doing OK because they are not for profit club who are covering expenses thanks to the Pokies. I don't know for sure but I am about to become a member now that I have settled here.

The reliance on Pokies poses less ethical questions for me when the money is going back into the community and not some millionaires pocket

You were more on topic, I had better stop before I derail this thread

[teecee]

I do wonder whether the last 2 posts are not more relevant in another thread????

[Lucky Camilla"s Lovechild]

Hi Kev
I read your posts with interest and great empathy, but sadly, people of your ilk and many on this board are few and far between. Harness Racing is in terminal decline, the sport here mirrors what happens in the US and that unfortunately is solely based on wagering. Hobbyists once the backbone of the industry will soon be eradicated. Country tracks will gradually go out of commission. I was once a member of Harold Park, but the type of action and excitement that witnessed there every Friday night has long since passed. I can recall far from the glory days of HP with an ensemble of wags and punters and bookmakers that made it a very entertaining night, where the recently resigned CEO (then in another guise) would interact with us freely as we all sought to identify a winner and who was going and who was not.


It's not hard to see where the sport is heading, the shift to Menangle & Melton have long term implications that will only see the replication of US racing, which in general lacks the engagement of half mile / five eighths tracks. I know you love Stawell, may I suggest Mt Gambier on a Saturday night - very hard to beat.


The biggest issue facing the industry is unquestionably the drug question. If Lance Armstrong didn't set off alarm bells in the industry then nothing well. I applaud the work being done here, but you don't need to be Einstein to work out that the chemists remain way ahead of the testers. The recent publication of cobalt threshold tests cast further doubt on what is already a questionable area. The "horsemen" who can magically "improve" horses within weeks must be feeding and working there horses very differently to everyone else.


I feel for the honest hard working hobbyists and semi pro participants who actually keep the game alive only to be effectively cheated out of a chance to race on a level playing field, it's a disgrace. Perhaps they should have built that straight one mile track at Maryborough with no access for patrons, pretty soon that's all you will have left.


As for the move from HP to Menangle, I know the facility is probably fantastic, but I've only been once and I found it soulless and so far away from HP that I never went back. When I was frequenting HP, Mr V'Landys was in charge and he was only interested in one thing and that was getting every dollar he could from you, his offsider used to be referred to as Dumb and Dumber, now he is the CEO of HRNSW! Realistically, Harold Park was becoming increasingly hard to get to for participants but there should have been a middle earth option.


I suppose the rock bottom for me occurred on Tuesday morning, I switched on the box to check the news and saw a couple of people at Bankstown with a mob of camels, I then started reading some of the propaganda emanating from the Directors and just shook my head, that's what it's come to.
One of the best posts i've ever read on this forum! Well done.

[Lethal]

I do wonder whether the last 2 posts are not more relevant in another thread????

Absolutely NOT. These posts represent the general opinion of participants about the malaise of Harness Racing. This appointment only underlines the lack of foresight and therefore a guarantee to consign Harness Racing to the 'Junk or Deleted' folder. It's like this industry has a death wish.

[teecee]

I have to agree Leigh that again we have a couple of eloquent posts on a topic.


Lee..
I accept your point about views re the malaise of Harness Racing. I looked to where there are a number of recent threads on that very topic but I will take your point on how this appointment is another factor in that.
cheers

[Mister JayKO]

Absolutely NOT. These posts represent the general opinion of participants about the malaise of Harness Racing. This appointment only underlines the lack of foresight and therefore a guarantee to consign Harness Racing to the 'Junk or Deleted' folder. It's like this industry has a death wish.
L Balmer was always a name to be respected when appearing in the Race book at Harold Park because you knew what you were going to get - a fit horse and a driver always having a go!

[Lucky Camilla"s Lovechild]

Absolutely NOT. These posts represent the general opinion of participants about the malaise of Harness Racing. This appointment only underlines the lack of foresight and therefore a guarantee to consign Harness Racing to the 'Junk or Deleted' folder. It's like this industry has a death wish.
Lee, I think its fair to say we as an industry have struggled to get the balance right between keeping harness racing traditions, and trying to keep our sport relevent in todays society.

[Lethal]

Lee, I have felt that over the last few years, we as an industry have struggled to get the balance right between keeping harness racing traditions, and trying to keep our sport relevent in todays society.
Lee to Leigh,
I'm not sure that reverting back to the era before government control (when Harold Park-NSWTC was the controlling body) is the way to go. This appointment was overseen by an ex president of NSWHRC who has appointed an ex CEO of said club?

[Lucky Camilla"s Lovechild]

Did nt say it would. All im saying is everything we love about harness racing, may not appeal to the next generation.

[Mister JayKO]

My concern is that there will be no next generation, I once thought about maintaining my membership of the nswhrc, the thinking being that at some point in time I would be the only one left and it would all be mine.

[Lucky Camilla"s Lovechild]

Sorry Stu, ive just basically echoed what you said in another thread.

[Lethal]

Exactly Leigh, that's why this appointment is a retrograde step. What is needed is someone with a vision of how to connect the modern generation to Harness Racing using the tools available like social and instant media. If this sport continues to stand frozen in time it will become just that, a relic remembered only by dinosaurs . The problem is like 'a tree falling in a forest', no one hears it.

[Mister JayKO]

I think the bigger problem is who from the outside world would actually take on the role? For many Sam Nati was a strange appointment - personally i thought it was a master stroke, but he was dealt the ultimate shit sandwich by people who should have been working with him instead of corruptly destroying the game from the inside. He has had to spend so much of his time on one issue and ultimately the result is one less than satisfactory to most rank and file participants. That casts a shadow over the some of the really good stuff that he has been a part of. Not all of Sam's work has been great, the Inter is now a shambles, but on the whole he has left new in a much better place than it was.

If a head hunter came to me and said how about it and I knew little about the industry, if I did my research and looked at revenues, market share, competition, perception, infrastructure, there is no way anyone in their right mind would take the job and aside from WA, (which might as well be classified as another country) I can't see any state actually going ahead.

In another life I actually did some consulting, in far too many situations for my liking across many different levels, I was hired to deliver an outcome that was already predetermined, but by being able to point to the report as being "independent" it was able to pass the probity test.

Bottom line, I doubt the roll call of candidates was very long at all.

I must add, I attended HP trots for approximately 5-6 years with Rex Horne and I consider him a friend and a genuine bloke who has done a massive amount for the industry, but sometimes you can get too close to things and your judgement can be impaired.

[Messenger]

It would seem as though WA have done the least wrong and have city central racing with atmosphere.
I think we need a messiah to lead us - maybe it should be the CEO of HRA.
Any such messiah has to get all the smart people that are out there (and it would seem many are willing to give their time) and draw up a believable strategic plan
We need to know how Melton and Menangle are going to grow our product
Are we locked into the betting dollar only or are we going to be an entertainment industry.
(I will quit as having just got out of hospital I am probably talking shit - I know we are a caring community on here so the answer is Yeah I am fine and might be able to hear again soon!)

[Viv Strangman]

It would seem as though WA have done the least wrong and have city central racing with atmosphere.
I think we need a messiah to lead us - maybe it should be the CEO of HRA.
Any such messiah has to get all the smart people that are out there (and it would seem many are willing to give their time) and draw up a believable strategic plan
We need to know how Melton and Menangle are going to grow our product
Are we locked into the betting dollar only or are we going to be an entertainment industry.
(I will quit as having just got out of hospital I am probably talking shit - I know we are a caring community on here so the answer is Yeah I am fine and might be able to hear again soon!)
As someone who has spent a lot of time in Perth over the years, it is so different to everywhere else. Go along to a Friday night meeting and the crowd is huge compared to anywhere else I've been to in Australasia for an everyday meeting. The only reason I could see was Pokies were restricted to the casino. If you wanted to bet in any pub in WA then the horses were your only option so it has helped maintain a grassroots following of horse racing.Turnover drives stakemoney and keeps people involved. In NZ gambling on the Pokies in the pubs is worth over two billion a year and has decimated our turnover on horse racing. Dont know how you fix that as the pokies aren't going anywhere.

[Richard prior]

They've been talking about restrictions on the pokies for a long time here but nothing has come to light as yet. Tony Abbott's government is finally getting a bit more serious on the Dole bludgers and this is a step in the right direction and if this goes ahead, I think that the amounts that you can gamble on a poker machine might closely follow that.

[Toohard]

As someone who has spent a lot of time in Perth over the years, it is so different to everywhere else. Go along to a Friday night meeting and the crowd is huge compared to anywhere else I've been to in Australasia for an everyday meeting. The only reason I could see was Pokies were restricted to the casino. If you wanted to bet in any pub in WA then the horses were your only option so it has helped maintain a grassroots following of horse racing.Turnover drives stakemoney and keeps people involved. In NZ gambling on the Pokies in the pubs is worth over two billion a year and has decimated our turnover on horse racing. Dont know how you fix that as the pokies aren't going anywhere.

BINGO Viv! (excuse the pun). Solution to build a harness facility that has pokies? Like Melton. Even then the government comes along and takes and extra slug.

[Messenger]

Melton has pokies and trots, Horsham has pokies and trots, Stawell has pokies and trots, Kilmore has pokies and trots .....
Some form of entertainment needs to be happening at all our trots venues or else the tracks are just underutilized facilities (how I saw my old Yarra Glen track)

But in the end harness racing still has to be attractive and grab an audience or else one day the facilities will be circled by housing not tracks.
Let us say the pokies rooms and restaurants are supplying most of the revenue for the trots (which I think some are declaring to be the case in the US) at what point do the trots no longer become a vital part of the equation.

If you are running subsidiary businesses to fund another business it has to be seen as worth doing it for.
The ethics of Pokies joints being run to fund football clubs is debatable but there is no doubting that people care about football
If a pokies joint was being run to fund a theatre company that nobody gave a rats about - how long before the survival of the theatre company becomes questionable. I would think only until the old brigade are gone.

Gerry Ryan pouring money into Australian cycling/Orica Greenedge team will only last as long as Gerry is around unless people are interested in the cycling product, in which case someone else will keep it going

I fear I am going around in circles (its the drugs) but the crux of it would seem to be having a product that people care about for there are hundreds of things for people to bet on.
For sustainability we have to tap into peoples love of beautiful animals, of horses, of standardbred horses or else it may as well be cartoon video racing

We need champion equine athletes and we need them to get air time - that is a major role for administrators. If we had a standardbred equivalent of Black Caviar going around would the public even hear about it

Our newspapers are full of absolute garbage football stories for filler and yet we cannot get a column inch about ITMQ in some of them

[2minuteman]

They've been talking about restrictions on the pokies for a long time here but nothing has come to light as yet. Tony Abbott's government is finally getting a bit more serious on the Dole bludgers and this is a step in the right direction and if this goes ahead, I think that the amounts that you can gamble on a poker machine might closely follow that.
and pigs might fly.

[p plater]

We don't know who the other applicants were for the position of CEO but who could doubt the dedication to the sport by John D. It has been his life from his days in the, I think Parkes area. His family are still involved. He is still a country boy and I can imagine he has a few ideas for those regions.
Working along side Rex Horne to me is a benefit, these 2 fought for the current changes and development of Menangle with a long term vision, now the State may benefit.
Having the benefit of being part of a dramatic change from Harold Park to Menangle with all the good and bad that must have been involved and probably is still being felt, can only be an advantage for the future imo.
Or maybe a businessman with no passion for the sport could have been better.........not for me.

[Messenger]

Lee,

You will only have to wait a short while to see how HRNSW intends to connect with the modern generation.

As per my post 21, this will be the important thing Adam as we need a new generation to embrace our sport - our fairly unique sport that is NOT just gambling
Thanks for the NSW info and I probably should not have inferred the sale of HP was a mistake as I know very little about Sydney and NSW - I am only equating it with moving the centre of Victoria's harness racing out to Melton where all the converted already live which is over an hours drive for most of Melbourne (no public transport option either)

[Lethal]

Adam,
Everything that you have outlined is fantastic but it is only what an industry trying to compete in the 21st century should be doing. However it only as it should, gives the industry participants (and its diehard fans) the modern facilities that they deserve. As an aside the very best drivers rooms were at Wyong but they were built for jockeys, what a difference.
In a past life I was heavily involved in marketing and our mantra was to take the product to the users (our brand or not) and those that may become users using the tools available at that time.Unfortunately Harness Racing seems only to 'preach to the converted' by using old media ie: Tv and newsprint. It just doesn't cut the mustard these days. The current generation neither watches TV as we know it nor read newspapers but a 'like' hit on facebook or youtube can generate a flurry of activity. The big question has to be - How do we target and then direct this social media to
garner interest in this sport so as to begin to build a new fan base.

[Messenger]

and Lee the cranky old man that is emerging in me wonders whether this selfie generation is even interested in animals

[Lethal]

and Lee the cranky old man that is emerging in me wonders whether this selfie generation is even interested in animals
It really doesn't matter, the sport moves with the times or becomes irrelevant to the modern generation.
I'm not sure HOW you do it, but what I do know is that it can be done. Look what Apple did to Blackberry or Facebook did to Myspace, it's not impossible it just needs people who think outside the square.We have a huge horse industry that embraces the use of thoroughbreds in their sport but will not entertain the standardbred. It's the perception of the industry that needs to change.

[Messenger]

a perception that the old media perpetuated so maybe the new media will work in our favour

[Messenger]

My proviso would be if the essence of the sport is destroyed there will be as many jump ship as jump on board - you can count me out on camel racing, chariot racing or any other gimmicks

[Lethal]

My proviso would be if the essence of the sport is destroyed there will be as many jump ship as jump on board - you can count me out on camel racing, chariot racing or any other gimmicks
You're right it's not about gimmicky, one off promotions although they do have their place when warranted. The gallops seem to rely on this type of promotion and it only works with big carnivals. It's about connecting to people that haven't had an involvement in the sport and retaining their interest.

[Messenger]

http://www.harnesslink.com/Australia/New-Chief-Executive-for-principal-club
and another in house promotion

[Amlin]

I found this article interesting - from 1957 mind you. It seems we are carrying on a tradition of sorts!

[HaroldParker]

I first started going to the trots when I'd nearly finished the HSC in 92. I didn't have an interest in the racing nor punting. A mates Old Man went to Harold Park every Friday night from the Hills District. For his son, myself and another two mates it was a quiet start to a big night in the City. We used to put $15 each in and have a box Trifecta in every race, have a cheap bite to eat, a few drinks and straight into the Rocks after the last.

At the end of 97 following Uni, I picked up a great job in the City and I was mortgaged up for a 3 bed terrace a couple of hundred metres from Harold Park. My two housemates, were the two mates, like me, who started going to Harold Park to sponge a lift into the City.

All three of us remain Harness Racing tragics. They've owned numerous horses. I live between here and the States (work). I don't own horses here but I'm in an ownership group over there.

My point is, three Blokes and now their family are "into" Harness Racing on the back of, where we were headed after the last. After the night out, no matter how inebriated, you could get home safely either by Train or Taxi.

When Harold Park and Moonee Valley were replaced by Menangle and Melton i.e from the City to the Sticks, they lost possible would be tragics like myself from the East, North and North West of Sydney ($$$).

Anyway that's done, they're not getting that back and I've got a lot to say about what they need to do (IMO) to sure up the future of the industry.

100+ Million from Santa is a once off. It begins and ends with maximum return of gambling revenue from the TAB and the corporates.

Racing NSW have fired the first salvo and Harness Racing has to come together and get on board.

I have a pretty good understanding of this because I've witnessed the pressure that Harness Racing is about to face in regards to a revenue shortfall from my years of going to Yonkers and across the turnpike in New Jersey.

TBC

[Messenger]

:eek: I am 20 years older than Bob :eek:

[jackthepunter]

It's a never ending mates club in all states. You only have to look at the never ending stewards and other administrotors that come and go. Pay peanuts and get monkeys.

[Messenger]

Old news TC - haven't you been reading the original musical chairs