Gary Hall Snr

[Messenger]

http://www.harnesslink.com/Australia/Legendary-trainer-nearly-lost-to-harness-racing.

Having given my age away in another thread you will now know that I fit into the grumpy old man age bracket (that is a warning as to what is about to follow)

Being pretty much exclusively a Vic follower and one who has come and gone a few times, I did not know the linked story but instead of being inspired by it - I am just thinking suss

Maybe some WA followers can set me right so that I can see it all rosey

My first problem is that he leased a horse, Maru Adios, that had not run a place for 3yrs and won 11 races and placed 22 times in that season

Things had improved but he was still struggling and thus driving Zakara but Zakara was never going to be put in work except that he had to find something for a couple of employees to do (struggling but had 2 employees he did not have enough work for!)

Then Zakara at his first hit out was expected to be tailed off but instead beats a Gp.1 winning stablemate.

http://www.harnesslink.com/Australia/Legendary-trainer-nearly-lost-to-harness-racing.

Like I said - call me grumpy and correct my misperceptions but I would much rather see a story about how Adam Sofoulis's horses come to wear Pink Monkey racing colours, as a promotion for our sport than this.

Fire away

[aussiebreno]

Grumpy Kev! Nothing wrong with the article. Would you rather that or nothing? If they interview Adam Sofoulis make sure to request they don't ask him about yayas early NZ form if you don't like reading about reversals of fortune.

[Sofoulis]

Thanks for the mention in your post Kevin.

I was actually pretty impressed by the article. I have a solid respect for Gary Hall and his team. He once agreed to take on one of my horses after it failed pretty miserably with the first trainer I gave it to. He had no reason to take on my horse (it had poor form, was relatively highly assessed, wasn't young, had plenty of starts) but he understood my situation and helped turn the horse around (not 11 wins though) and he was always honest with me (as opposed to some other trainers in Victoria who decided to take me to the cleaners) on how far he thought the horse could go. I haven't had another horse with him subsequently (as my horses are probably not at the level required to be in his stable) but the only other occasion I reached out to him was to see if I could buy a set of IMQ racing colours signed by him/Jnr for a fundraiser and without blinking an eye a set of colours was in the post, signed and he didn't ask for a cent.

Maybe the story is embellished, and the Hall camp definitely have their knockers here in WA, but I would much prefer to read this type of article than either negative-press or no-press!

(Btw: One-Tel had 1,400 employees... the next day they were in administration...)

[Messenger]

Grumpy Kev! Nothing wrong with the article. Would you rather that or nothing? If they interview Adam Sofoulis make sure to request they don't ask him about yayas early NZ form if you don't like reading about reversals of fortune.
I am definitely being grumpy Brendan but you are forcing me to reply on Adam's behalf - he is clearly too much of a gentleman to ask why would you compare a horse who had had 2 lifetime starts with a horse who according to the story had been racing for 3 years. Please Brendan do not be ridiculous

[Chariots]

Kevin your opening paragraph pretty well sums up your overall comments.

Why would a positive article about how a leading trainer went through some tough times before achieving consistent success at the highest level raise such a negative response.

Are you implying that his success with Maru Adios had more to it than a change of stables and training methods?

The reality to Hall's success and dominance in WA is the quality of the horses that his owners purchase. It is possible that the average purchase price of horses that he trains is around the $100k mark.

Give most reasonable trainers access to this quality of stock and they would almost certainly improve their training records.

Can't for the life of me see why some people want to turn a positive story, and they are lacking in our industry, into a negative one.

The harness racing industry is the perfect vehicle to harbour the tall poppy syndrome.

[aussiebreno]

I am definitely being grumpy Brendan but you are forcing me to reply on Adam's behalf - he is clearly too much of a gentleman to ask why would you compare a horse who had had 2 lifetime starts with a horse who according to the story had been racing for 3 years. Please Brendan do not be ridiculous
Gliding Rose, Hawthornden, Chance whoever take your pick. They were all struggling to win races with their old trainers and have improved under their new trainer. The comparison is pretty obvious I would have thought.
You labelled Hall Snr improvement suss. I didn't label anything suss. I really don't know why they have improved. All I see are clear parallels between horses going slow for old trainer who get a new trainer and win plenty of races. Tell me I'm wrong? Tell me those horses didn't go from also rans to winners.
It's odd to spread hate on one trainer who turned around a horses win column yet seek advertisement for an owner who is in the same boat.
Nothing wrong with Hall or Sofoulis at all - I say let them both have an article. I was just pointing out a similarity that you seem to think is suss and not worth writing about.

[Messenger]

I knew I was being contrary Ray but I did not feel in the mood for bullshit.
I asked for WA posters to set me straight and possibly you have except can anyone confirm some of the info in the story
Researching a little myself, I now find HRA listing Maru Adios as having only ever won 12 and placed 11 in his career so was the 11 wins and 22 places in one season bull?
Can anyone confirm that the day Zakara beat the Gp1 ers they expected him to be tailed off

I dont believe I made any comment about the Hall's success, I know next to nothing about the Halls as I have never followed WA. I am an ITMQ East coast fan. It was not meant to be a tall poppy attack - just a comment about the verity of the article.

You are right that we should not be turning positives into negatives and as I am not feeling particularly positive at present I will commit to posting only positive posts until I am sure I am being fair and reasonable.

[Messenger]

Gliding Rose, Hawthornden, Chance whoever take your pick. They were all struggling to win races with their old trainers and have improved under their new trainer. The comparison is pretty obvious I would have thought.
You labelled Hall Snr improvement suss. I didn't label anything suss. I really don't know why they have improved. All I see are clear parallels between horses going slow for old trainer who get a new trainer and win plenty of races. Tell me I'm wrong? Tell me those horses didn't go from also rans to winners.
It's odd to spread hate on one trainer who turned around a horses win column yet seek advertisement for an owner who is in the same boat.
Nothing wrong with Hall or Sofoulis at all - I say let them both have an article. I was just pointing out a similarity that you seem to think is suss and not worth writing about.
Look Brendan I want to stop but if you cannot see the difference between a horse having had two 2yo starts and hitting its straps and a horse having had 3 seasons of racing then hitting its straps with a now 'supposed' 33 collects in a season, then we have very different definitions of 'clear parallels'. I only took exception with the story as being a bit too much of a yarn and only mentioned the Sofoulis story as a feelgood story - no mention of Adam's horses just his colours. The horses comparison is all yours Brendan and I replied to your comparison to one particular horse as being ridiculous so you have another shot by throwing in a few others. I was being contrary - if you think I was aiming to spread hate you should have alerted the mods and it should have been deleted. Whatever it was possibly misjudged criticism of an article on a slow news day. Fini

[Smoken]

I can't see no hatred, merely opinions, no big deal at all. We all have different perceptions of what 'positive' or 'negative' is, and in which context it's applied. Nice day today, might go for a walk later :)

[Messenger]

I can't see no hatred, merely opinions, no big deal at all. We all have different perceptions of what 'positive' or 'negative' is, and in which context it's applied. Nice day today, might go for a walk later :)
That is exactly what I need Smoken, we have had too nice a weather in The Gap for me to have been laid up - maybe tomorrow.

[Smoken]

Hope you feel better Kev, & enjoy the nice weather this week!

[Viv Strangman]

Look Brendan I want to stop but if you cannot see the difference between a horse having had two 2yo starts and hitting its straps and a horse having had 3 seasons of racing then hitting its straps with a now 'supposed' 33 collects in a season, then we have very different definitions of 'clear parallels'. I only took exception with the story as being a bit too much of a yarn and only mentioned the Sofoulis story as a feelgood story - no mention of Adam's horses just his colours. The horses comparison is all yours Brendan and I replied to your comparison to one particular horse as being ridiculous so you have another shot by throwing in a few others. I was being contrary - if you think I was aiming to spread hate you should have alerted the mods and it should have been deleted. Whatever it was possibly misjudged criticism of an article on a slow news day. Fini
I am surprised at some of the comments here.Take the comments with regards to Zakara at home.
Does that kind of thing happen. Absolutely. Anyone who knows the Sundon story when as a yearling out for education he monstered a couple of well performed older stablemates to the shock of everybody involved would know that it does happen. I can quote you another string of similar stories if you like.
Personally I think you owe Gary Hall an apology for the comments regarding Zakara.
Anyone who has been involved in harness racing would know that incidents like he described happen.
I am all for holding people to account when spin is involved but in this case to describe it as spin is nonsense.

[Messenger]

I am surprised at some of the comments here.Take the comments with regards to Zakara at home.
Does that kind of thing happen. Absolutely. Anyone who knows the Sundon story when as a yearling out for education he monstered a couple of well performed older stablemates to the shock of everybody involved would know that it does happen. I can quote you another string of similar stories if you like.
Personally I think you owe Gary Hall an apology for the comments regarding Zakara.
Anyone who has been involved in harness racing would know that incidents like he described happen.
I am all for holding people to account when spin is involved but in this case to describe it as spin is nonsense.

Taken on board Viv, not being a horseman, if you tell me that this can happen then I have another reason to marvel at Harness Racing

I unreservedly apologize to Gary Hall Snr for suggesting the article was spin

[brent_L]

What a precious world we live in! I just re-read your original post Kev and IMO u have nothing to apologise for (u asked if u were perhaps wrong and u were so told). Granted, it's not something I would have penned, but each to their own......free speech people. If your recent research was in fact correct, then the 22 placings was in fact a 'spin'!!

[Gilgamesh]

I knew I was being contrary Ray but I did not feel in the mood for bullshit.
I asked for WA posters to set me straight and possibly you have except can anyone confirm some of the info in the story
Researching a little myself, I now find HRA listing Maru Adios as having only ever won 12 and placed 11 in his career so was the 11 wins and 22 places in one season bull?
Can anyone confirm that the day Zakara beat the Gp1 ers they expected him to be tailed off

I dont believe I made any comment about the Hall's success, I know next to nothing about the Halls as I have never followed WA. I am an ITMQ East coast fan. It was not meant to be a tall poppy attack - just a comment about the verity of the article.

You are right that we should not be turning positives into negatives and as I am not feeling particularly positive at present I will commit to posting only positive posts until I am sure I am being fair and reasonable.


“I put young Travis Gardiner on Zakara and asked him to sit last with him and if he couldn’t keep up not to knock the horse around.
“Turning for home Love Of Glory was tackling Almagest and along came Zakara with Travis just sitting on him and he went straight past them. It was a shock for us but an even bigger shock for Travis as he never got behind the horse again.”
Hall subsequently took Zakara to Wagin for his debut, where he sat five-wide throughout and won easily despite the horse nearly ending up on the outside fence in the straight as he used to bore out.


The comments are regarding track work fella as is indicated by the highlighted section. I've spent a bit of time in a harness stable, I can certainly tell you there are times when there aren't a lot of horses in the stable and people are looking for something to do, particularly when things aren't going well! Boys were probably getting paid peanuts.


You do seem a little grumpy, It happens.

[Messenger]

“I put young Travis Gardiner on Zakara and asked him to sit last with him and if he couldn’t keep up not to knock the horse around.
“Turning for home Love Of Glory was tackling Almagest and along came Zakara with Travis just sitting on him and he went straight past them. It was a shock for us but an even bigger shock for Travis as he never got behind the horse again.”
Hall subsequently took Zakara to Wagin for his debut, where he sat five-wide throughout and won easily despite the horse nearly ending up on the outside fence in the straight as he used to bore out.


The comments are regarding track work fella as is indicated by the highlighted section. I've spent a bit of time in a harness stable, I can certainly tell you there are times when there aren't a lot of horses in the stable and people are looking for something to do, particularly when things aren't going well! Boys were probably getting paid peanuts.


You do seem a little grumpy, It happens.

I don't think I am normally. Thanks for pointing out that my comprehension is even off LOL. I was imagining it was a trial
I can only improve :)

[Chariots]

the following response from the author when I questioned the veracity of his story.

"They can question it all they want, the info came directly from G Hall himself and once he mentioned the horse I could recall it winning some races here around about that time.

I then cross checked it on the harness website which only listed one run as a 2yo back in Dec 1980 at Mildura and he said the horse originally came from the east so that makes sense.

I can only hazard a guess that the stakesmoney figure listed on the website is incorrect which wouldn't be the first time that has occurred with records that are that old as I would think Hally in the position he was in would well and truly accurately recall how much the horse banked for them at the time.

I am also far more inclined to believe him than a website which listed only one run for the horse as a 2yo and makes zero mention of its entire WA career.

Hally also said the same thing during the feature interview Wes conducted with him on Racing Radio last January I think it was as it doesn't say on the tape when it was conducted when he was on for about 20-25 minutes which I heard at the time and later got a copy of the tape through Wes after Glen Quartermaine suggested I do a story for them.

I then used that as part of my research for the article and it was that interview which gave me the idea for the story. (So G Hall has twice confirmed that information once publicly live on air and secondly privately to myself)

Hally called me on Saturday night as he soon as he saw the paper and told me it was a fantastic story and that it was nice for a change to see that everything he said to a journo was accurately reported as he said he's become used to constantly being misquoted, it was nice of him to call me as he didn't have to do that and its always good to get feedback from the people involved in your story.

Anyway that's beside the point but I don't know how unless you have the paper records themselves (if they still even exist which they may somewhere but in the old days before the internet etc you used to go into the registrar's office at GP and check things by hand but clearly you can't do that anymore) which I don't as to how you can check any further.

I always check to ascertain that my facts and the information that I put out are correct which is more than what can be said for virtually any of the so called racing journalists at the west and other major papers around the country including the herald sun etc, etc.

If they've got proof that I've put out anything that is incorrect tell them to contact me rather than just shoot off their mouths because as far I'm concerned unless I see definitive proof that proves different they're full of it and are grandstanding for the sake of it."

I am not offering an opinion merely relaying the author's comments.

[Messenger]

I always check to ascertain that my facts and the information that I put out are correct which is more than what can be said for virtually any of the so called racing journalists at the west and other major papers around the country including the herald sun etc, etc.

If they've got proof that I've put out anything that is incorrect tell them to contact me rather than just shoot off their mouths because as far I'm concerned unless I see definitive proof that proves different they're full of it and are grandstanding for the sake of it."

I am not offering an opinion merely relaying the author's comments.

Thanks Ray.
Nobody seems to be particularly sure of the facts and I have come to see that they are not that important and I apologize if I offended the author
As for shooting my mouth off and grandstanding I think I have been out-grandstanded ;)

I will tell you some facts 'behind my thread'
This is a forum for people to throw around opinions and engage with like-interested people and I try to keep it ticking over because I felt it was stagnating a few months ago
This thread is clearly not my greatest and as the wording in the OP suggested - I knew I was being controversial.
I would probably have been better off not posting this week after having surgery on my head for 3hrs last Wednesday but WTF I was not up to do anything else (including sleeping) other than blobbing in front of the TV or computer

I don't particularly regret it, like I said it is a forum for banter, hopefully I think before posting but I will not give posts the time I would a letter much less an important answer to something. I will post worse but generally better, I hope to continue to enjoy my time on here - if I have ruined anyone's time on here take me to task with a reply or pm me and tell me to pull my head in. It is no biggie

[Chariots]

No problem from my perspective at all.