State of NSW Harness Racing

[Pena]

Reading that Nicole Molander is relocating partially because of the grading system in NSW surely Max Dumesny and his team at HRNSW must realise that the new system is a dead duck. The quality of the fields at present are laughable and surely the powers that be must realise something needs to change. Perhaps NSW could start with scrapping the import tax and encourage people to bring horse to NSW. The best Metropolitan prizemoney means nothing if you do not support the grass root participants. Max, the time is pressing time to make a stand and get rid of Nati's legacy.

[Messenger]

This is the story that Jack is referring to

http://www.harnesslink.com/International/Molanders-moving-to-Victoria

[djgood]

The system is easy fixed
1) return to restricted meetings and country/metro class meetings
2) pick restricted fields from lowest points up to a maximum of 20 points, if your above 20 points your horse is in decent form and shouldnt be racing for 3000 dollars
3)use only one concession either concession driver or mares but cant use both
4)add drop back clauses in races like-C2C3 also eligble C4 won less than 1000 last 4 every race should have a drop back clause in it to give out of form horses more options

[Pena]

I personally think that Menangle should just bite the bullet and go back to Friday nights.
I do not think Saturday nights work and also has ruined the regular Saturday nights at Newcastle.
The recent changes have just not worked.

[djgood]

I personally think that Menangle should just bite the bullet and go back to Friday nights.
I do not think Saturday nights work and also has ruined the regular Saturday nights at Newcastle.
The recent changes have just not worked.

I agree this friday i have 2 trotters in at menangle and a pacer in at newcastle its going to be a big day!!!

[Race For Fun]

Makes you wonder if they need to spend all that money building the training centre at Menangle. Who is going to fill them on a long term basis?

[barney]

Not sure what is going on but when you read all the cobalt chloride positives in Nsw and then none or few in Victoria maybe the stewards in Nsw are over zealous or the Vics just not testing for it.
What is the answer but surely all the trainers that are inclined to use outside influences cant all be based in Nsw or are they?

[Messenger]

Stewards cannot be over zealous Brian and I have also asked the question "Is/was Cobalt really only being used in NSW?"

[arlington]

http://www.harness.org.au/news-article.cfm?news_id=24690

[The Form Student]

http://www.harness.org.au/news-article.cfm?news_id=24690

Why doesn't HRV publish the results of it's testing, just as NSW already has done! You know why, they don't believe we have the right to know such information! I have seen many comments on this forum, where HRV has not responded to requests for information, or just won't even courteously send a reply!

[trish]

http://www.harness.org.au/news-article.cfm?news_id=24969

[gutwagon]

I think barney is on the right track. I think HRV need to do more drug testing, more stable raids and test for more substances . I would hate to think that trainers are shifting to Victoria just for the weaker drug testing.
This is just my opinion and I'm not accusing anyone mentioned in the above articles .

[kung fu man]

Maybe its the old saying, if you cant stand the heat get out of the kitchen! Seems a fair few have reduced the amount of races they compete in, in NSW. One thing for sure thier not missed by many.

[teecee]

This thread is about NSW but most posts are critical of HRV..??

[The Form Student]

This thread is about NSW but most posts are critical of HRV..??

It's called defection!......a bit like Sonny Bill Williams!

[Race For Fun]

It's called defection!......a bit like Sonny Bill Williams!

Isn't he an kiwi? :cool:

[teecee]

It's called defection!......a bit like Sonny Bill Williams!


Don't go there

[teecee]

Isn't he an kiwi? :cool:


Damned If I know Why your NRL clubs couldn't tie him into a lifelong contract or that the tasman was deeper.

[Race For Fun]

Damned If I know Why your NRL clubs couldn't tie him into a lifelong contract or that the tasman was deeper.

:D:D:D hope you and I don't get in trouble got going off track. :D:D:D

[Messenger]

:D:D:D hope you and I don't get in trouble got going off track. :D:D:D

I just woke up from the weirdest daydream with the words "Tony to Toni Dart son" ringing in my ears

[Race For Fun]

Ooooooh dear does my bum look big in that??????????????:eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek:

You simply have too much time on your hands.

[Messenger]

Just resting after a 125k return trip to Willaura bakery so that I could have one of the world's greatest lamingtons for lunch - hmm, you might be right about having too much time on my hands.
We do not want people focusing too hard on your bum or else the censor might remove it :eek:

[barney]

There is definetely something not right as just compared prize money and Nsw is the best, so you wouldn't think that stables would relocate to race for less money.Can understand that they may take certain horses for the country cups etc but the whole stable?

[Messenger]

There is definetely something not right as just compared prize money and Nsw is the best, so you wouldn't think that stables would relocate to race for less money.Can understand that they may take certain horses for the country cups etc but the whole stable?

Are you referring to the Mollander stable Brian? Are they a serious trotting gait stable? Could HRV's objective to have 30% trots races also have something to do with it?

[aussiebreno]

Are you referring to the Mollander stable Brian? Are they a serious trotting gait stable? Could HRV's objective to have 30% trots races also have something to do with it?
Molander has pacers as well. Poacher to name but one.

As for just taking one down for a few months and leaving the rest in Sydney, someones still got to train them back home, think of the extra bills. Might be a bit different if you are a big stable but for the the smaller 5 or 6 horse stables I would say it is too costly to have multiple stables and staff.

[The Form Student]

Also, most of the Molander stable horses are owned in NZ, so it does not really have an impact on where they are located.

[p plater]

I think property prices may have played a large part of this decision. Another reason why Menangles barn complex will be popular (if the rent is reasonable of course)

[barney]

Are you referring to the Mollander stable Brian? Are they a serious trotting gait stable? Could HRV's objective to have 30% trots races also have something to do with it?

Probably more the Rattray stable.

[mango]

The system is easy fixed
1) return to restricted meetings and country/metro class meetings
2) pick restricted fields from lowest points up to a maximum of 20 points, if your above 20 points your horse is in decent form and shouldnt be racing for 3000 dollars
3)use only one concession either concession driver or mares but cant use both
4)add drop back clauses in races like-C2C3 also eligble C4 won less than 1000 last 4 every race should have a drop back clause in it to give out of form horses more options

I'd have to agree fully with every point, there's a lot of people who would like to see it go back the way it was. I'd also add trainers and owners should be able to place there horse/horses in what race they want to put them in..

[Race For Fun]

The system is easy fixed
1) return to restricted meetings and country/metro class meetings
2) pick restricted fields from lowest points up to a maximum of 20 points, if your above 20 points your horse is in decent form and shouldnt be racing for 3000 dollars
3)use only one concession either concession driver or mares but cant use both
4)add drop back clauses in races like-C2C3 also eligble C4 won less than 1000 last 4 every race should have a drop back clause in it to give out of form horses more options

I think you're well and truly on the right track here David. Do Victoria have something along the line of selecting the fields from the bottom up in restricted races?

I don't think mares should get a class and driver let up especially if the race is then preferential draw sex (that's 3 concessions). Only point that I differ on is point 4. If they picked the restricted races from the bottom up that's the concession for out of form horses, otherwise the system then gives the out of form horse 2 let ups like mares have now.

No one could say that this current system has improved racing in NSW because everyone knows how often nominations are extended for all meetings (it's not the change of season 2 and 3 year olds). We all have the text messages from HRNSW to inform us. How long do you think until someone, anyone at HRNSW admits this just isn't working?

[Messenger]

I'd have to agree fully with every point, there's a lot of people who would like to see it go back the way it was. I'd also add trainers and owners should be able to place there horse/horses in what race they want to put them in..

I agree Dallas, it just seems absurd for it should be a given

[Messenger]

3 new trainers added to my VIC winners database tonight after Shep
All from NSW - we might have to bring in a toll for South bound traffic on the Murray bridges
(I think a trend is developing NSW admin)

[Race For Fun]

3 new trainers added to my VIC winners database tonight after Shep
All from NSW - we might have to bring in a toll for South bound traffic on the Murray bridges
(I think a trend is developing NSW admin)

I think this trend may have a lot to do with the lack of prizemoney for C class races state wide. If you compare the average prizemoney level in Vic against NSW I think it will answer the question. Don't get me started on the handicaping system in NSW.

[Pena]

It seems to me the trainers are leaving, the horses are leaving either to Queensland or Victoria, its time to wake up John Dumesny and the board of NSW Harness Racing.

[Pena]

Truer Memorial - What an embarrassment!!!

[The Form Student]

Truer Memorial - What an embarrassment!!!

Yes, HRNSW have "let the team down"...........the MM was a disaster from a betting point of view, and betting is the ultimate reason racing exists!........with just over $550K held on the 3 main TAB's.......this is less than the $750,000 prizemoney for the MM...........they would have been better off thinking about the "whole team" of clubs, and keeping back say $50,000, and boosting the Treuer to $80,000 plus prizemoney, and we may not have lost Christen Me & Terror to Love to the Cranbourne Cup this week, and maybe Beau might have started also...........good on Cranbourne for "stealing" these supreme horses..............poor effort HRNSW in not having the foresight or conviction to support the Bankstown Club and maintain the Treuer Memorial! It just shows a hell bent determination to kick these other clubs when they are down for their own, 'I am the master position"............you may have got what you want!.......but the cost to the industry as a whole could be insurmountable! You need to rethink your "Master Plan" for the industry as a whole very quickly!

[brent_L]

Yes, HRNSW have "let the team down"...........the MM was a disaster from a betting point of view, and betting is the ultimate reason racing exists!........with just over $550K held on the 3 main TAB's.......this is less than the $750,000 prizemoney for the MM...........they would have been better off thinking about the "whole team" of clubs, and keeping back say $50,000, and boosting the Treuer to $80,000 plus prizemoney, and we may not have lost Christen Me & Terror to Love to the Cranbourne Cup this week, and maybe Beau might have started also...........good on Cranbourne for "stealing" these supreme horses..............poor effort HRNSW in not having the foresight or conviction to support the Bankstown Club and maintain the Treuer Memorial! It just shows a hell bent determination to kick these other clubs when they are down for their own, 'I am the master position"............you may have got what you want!.......but the cost to the industry as a whole could be insurmountable! You need to rethink your "Master Plan" for the industry as a whole very quickly!
Using the size of the tote pools for last weeks race in no means gives a true indication of the total amount wagered on the mile Steve. Across the board the figure would be near 10 fold the amount u mention.

I do agree the Treuer is disappointing this year (I have no clue if hrnsw could/should have lended a helping hand) but the club are hopeful of returning it to a 100K race next season......here's certainly hoping.

[mightymo]

Yes, HRNSW have "let the team down"...........the MM was a disaster from a betting point of view, and betting is the ultimate reason racing exists!........with just over $550K held on the 3 main TAB's.......this is less than the $750,000 prizemoney for the MM...........they would have been better off thinking about the "whole team" of clubs, and keeping back say $50,000, and boosting the Treuer to $80,000 plus prizemoney, and we may not have lost Christen Me & Terror to Love to the Cranbourne Cup this week, and maybe Beau might have started also...........good on Cranbourne for "stealing" these supreme horses..............poor effort HRNSW in not having the foresight or conviction to support the Bankstown Club and maintain the Treuer Memorial! It just shows a hell bent determination to kick these other clubs when they are down for their own, 'I am the master position"............you may have got what you want!.......but the cost to the industry as a whole could be insurmountable! You need to rethink your "Master Plan" for the industry as a whole very quickly!

you can no longer use tote pools as an indication of wagering. The actual amount wagered on fixed odds with the TAB's and corps would be far greater...

[The Form Student]

I don't like making assumptions or not having the relevant facts.............but there is an extreme disbelief that the MM was a profit maker for harness racing! These same horses that competed in the MM have rushed to VIC to race for $100K prizemoney pool!
HRNSW enticed them here with big prizemoney for the MM, and perhaps could have kept them here a week longer! What a great thing for NSW!
Maybe, HRNSW should just change the name of the $30K race at Menangle on a Saturday night, and call them the "Treuer", "J D Watts" or the "Renshaw Cup", and save these now almost defunct clubs from trying to survive in there own rights, and let them fizzle out, as they are almost now extinct anyway!

[Mister JayKO]

Yes, HRNSW have "let the team down"...........the MM was a disaster from a betting point of view, and betting is the ultimate reason racing exists!........with just over $550K held on the 3 main TAB's.......this is less than the $750,000 prizemoney for the MM...........they would have been better off thinking about the "whole team" of clubs, and keeping back say $50,000, and boosting the Treuer to $80,000 plus prizemoney, and we may not have lost Christen Me & Terror to Love to the Cranbourne Cup this week, and maybe Beau might have started also...........good on Cranbourne for "stealing" these supreme horses..............poor effort HRNSW in not having the foresight or conviction to support the Bankstown Club and maintain the Treuer Memorial! It just shows a hell bent determination to kick these other clubs when they are down for their own, 'I am the master position"............you may have got what you want!.......but the cost to the industry as a whole could be insurmountable! You need to rethink your "Master Plan" for the industry as a whole very quickly! My only comment would be don't confuse HRNSW with the NSWHRC they are very different beasts although it matters not. It is sad to see what has become of the Truer and despite what the club may think, Bankstown appears to be a relic of what looks to be a bygone era, I can't see them generating the funds to get back to where they need to be.

[The Form Student]

It is like they have been strangled by a python!

[The Form Student]

Just noticed Amy Day lists her address as Ardmona! Unless she is living in a fruit tin, she has moved to VICTORIA!

[jackthepunter]

you can no longer use tote pools as an indication of wagering. The actual amount wagered on fixed odds with the TAB's and corps would be far greater...
Is their any way to see what those amounts are?

[Messenger]

Just noticed Amy Day lists her address as Ardmona! Unless she is living in a fruit tin, she has moved to VICTORIA!

I assumed DENNIS Day who won the 2nd at Shep last night was from NSW as there is a Goulburn Weir in Vic but no place Goulburn as such [which was listed as his location]
(I was also influenced by the fact that the horse's previous starts had been at Canberra)

ps If he lives with Amy - maybe he just doesn't know the area yet ;). (Goulburn Weir is 50k from Ardmona)

[mightymo]

Is their any way to see what those amounts are?

The various state bodies receive this information, but dont think it is published anywhere

[The Form Student]

The race would be a loss for sure, if they received 5% of turnover, (which they wouldn't get) they would need turnover of $15,000,000 on the MM to break square!

[Messenger]

Of course it is about turning a profit on a season and you do not have to break square on a single race if its significance can be justified eg being the pinnacle around which a structure is built - the carrot for all to strive for.
Nevertheless in the interest of good governance it has be revealed what it is costing and analysis done as to how it could be improved for on face value something seems to have gone wrong

[The Form Student]

Harness racing is living beyond it's means, unless they are receiving big returns from all the betting agencies! They are spending their children's inheritance money!

[Richard prior]

And apparently some agencies don't even pay 1 brass razoo in commission, This is totally ridiculous and it's just another issue that needs to be addressed urgently. IMHO pay a commission or POQ and don't use our product.

[The Form Student]

It's almost time for a Royal Commission in Racing and Betting??.......to get things right!

[Race For Fun]

Wasn't there a court case a few years ago something to do with these betting agencies paying a percentage?

[The Form Student]

Yes there was, but times have changed, and what has been the result of this, especially for Harness Racing........some punters on harness racing are saying their accounts are being cancelled by these betting agencies! It's time for a review, minimum rules put in place and a review of fees etc, should be on the cards!
The SKY Channel coverage on harness racing is hopeless!...........there are more & more meetings in all codes, they cannot cope and give "proper" coverage to all codes! As harness racing keeps getting shoved to the bottom of the queue by SKY, and the poor coverage it will just have the effect of turning off punters to bet on harness racing, if they are getting chucked to SKY 2 all the time!
Last Saturdays gallops meetings for instance.....nearly all the gallops races were running late starting, and the SKY director on the day, just chucked the race to SKY 2, until a race began on it's allocated time and it then stayed on SKY 1. Harness racing has a habit of not starting on time, and this puts it in the bottom feeder queue for coverage!
Have you watched SKY on the internet? You can have access if you are a member or have a TAB account.......e.g. if you are in NSW, you sometimes can't watch gallops race in VIC, and visa versa.........also 3 minutes before a designated gallops race in the other state, the vision showing goes blank while they give an update on the gallops race coming up! So if you are watching a current race, your vision stops! I think it is time that this cross state demarcation dispute ends, and that the best coverage for punters is the paramount concern!
There is a new racing minister in NSW, we need something done! The gallops got $10 mill to continue "The Championships" next year, Rosehill racecourse just got $20 mill to upgrade facilities!............where does it end?

[kung fu man]

Yes there was, but times have changed, and what has been the result of this, especially for Harness Racing........some punters on harness racing are saying their accounts are being cancelled by these betting agencies! It's time for a review, minimum rules put in place and a review of fees etc, should be on the cards!
The SKY Channel coverage on harness racing is hopeless!...........there are more & more meetings in all codes, they cannot cope and give "proper" coverage to all codes! As harness racing keeps getting shoved to the bottom of the queue by SKY, and the poor coverage it will just have the effect of turning off punters to bet on harness racing, if they are getting chucked to SKY 2 all the time!
Last Saturdays gallops meetings for instance.....nearly all the gallops races were running late starting, and the SKY director on the day, just chucked the race to SKY 2, until a race began on it's allocated time and it then stayed on SKY 1. Harness racing has a habit of not starting on time, and this puts it in the bottom feeder queue for coverage!
Have you watched SKY on the internet? You can have access if you are a member or have a TAB account.......e.g. if you are in NSW, you sometimes can't watch gallops race in VIC, and visa versa.........also 3 minutes before a designated gallops race in the other state, the vision showing goes blank while they give an update on the gallops race coming up! So if you are watching a current race, your vision stops! I think it is time that this cross state demarcation dispute ends, and that the best coverage for punters is the paramount concern!
There is a new racing minister in NSW, we need something done! The gallops got $10 mill to continue "The Championships" next year, Rosehill racecourse just got $20 mill to upgrade facilities!............where does it end?
It was my belief you could only access live stream if you were a punter of a certain leve, higher than bronze i think or you paid a yearly charge correct me if its changed.

[brent_L]

It was my belief you could only access live stream if you were a punter of a certain leve, higher than bronze i think or you paid a yearly charge correct me if its changed.
TAB members can view every trot race on a 25 second delay on their app (not sure if it is also available on the full site). No turnover limitations.

[brent_L]

Wasn't there a court case a few years ago something to do with these betting agencies paying a percentage?
Sure was. 2% on turnover. I'm not too sure what Rich was referring to in post #49 however??

[The Form Student]

OK, I have a platinum membership of something like that, and did not know everybody could not access the coverage........that is stupid, give it to everybody and you will get more people betting, especially in remote areas or those that do not have SKY Channel!

[brent_L]

........some punters on harness racing are saying their accounts are being cancelled by these betting agencies! It's time for a review, minimum rules put in place and a review of fees etc, should be on the cards!
Don't hold your breath. The monies lost to the industry through account limitations/closures is way down the list.....well behind making sure the corporates are cosy & happy in their 250k tax haven. The minimum bet rule hasn't really worked in the gallops and has Buckley's chance at the trots!

[Richard prior]

[QUOTE=brent_L;38849]Sure was. 2% on turnover. I'm not too sure what Rich was referring to in post #49 however??
G'day Brent, Might have been wrong with that comment but I thought that I heard or read that some corporates trading out of the Nothern Territory were getting away with paying nothing, I really hope that I'm wrong.

[brent_L]

[QUOTE=brent_L;38849]Sure was. 2% on turnover. I'm not too sure what Rich was referring to in post #49 however??
G'day Brent, Might have been wrong with that comment but I thought that I heard or read that some corporates trading out of the Nothern Territory were getting away with paying nothing, I really hope that I'm wrong.
Pretty sure it's 2% on turnover for race field privileges but the scary fact is they only pay 10 per cent gross margin tax capped at 250k if they're licensed in the NT. Saves them millions!

[Richard prior]

[QUOTE=Richard prior;38853]
Pretty sure it's 2% on turnover for race field privileges but the scary fact is they only pay 10 per cent gross margin tax capped at 250k if they're licensed in the NT. Saves them millions!

That needs to be addressed!!!

[Messenger]

TAB members can view every trot race on a 25 second delay on their app (not sure if it is also available on the full site). No turnover limitations.
Full site = desk top = YES


It was my belief you could only access live stream if you were a punter of a certain leve, higher than bronze i think or you paid a yearly charge correct me if its changed.
TAB account of any kind will do and no charge

[Messenger]

3 new trainers added to my VIC winners database tonight after Shep
All from NSW - we might have to bring in a toll for South bound traffic on the Murray bridges
(I think a trend is developing NSW admin)

3 new trainers added to my VIC winners database tonight after Echuca
All from NSW - toll booths are on order :eek:

[Messenger]

Only 6 races at Wagga tonight but almost as many starters as there in the 8 races at Menangle

[Race For Fun]

In the last month or so 3 long standing races in NSW have had major cuts in prizemoney which IMHO help to explain why some trainers have moved their horses inter state;
1. Truer $100,000 to $30,000
2. Newcastle Cup $35,000 to $8,000 race did not get enough nominations to run.
3. Inter City Pace $50,000 to $35,000

I think NSW needs fairer distribution of prizemoney across the state.

[Pena]

Not to mention generally no racing on Mondays, so there must be a saving.
I heard John Dumesny on Sky Sports Radio talking up the number of nominations for ID15.
JD, as I have said in previous post please, please don't kid yourself.
At least 30% of the noms are a disgrace and another 20-30% are on the borderline.
Lets make the initial nom $500 and 50% would be gone.
Glad to see some R racing returning last week maybe HRNSW are realising the folly of their way.

[Mister JayKO]

In the last month or so 3 long standing races in NSW have had major cuts in prizemoney which IMHO help to explain why some trainers have moved their horses inter state;
1. Truer $100,000 to $30,000
2. Newcastle Cup $35,000 to $8,000 race did not get enough nominations to run.
3. Inter City Pace $50,000 to $35,000

I think NSW needs fairer distribution of prizemoney across the state.

It would appear to me that every club apart from the NSWHRC is in financial trouble, thus the cut to stakes. HRNSW is putting its money into infrastructure in strategic locations, ie Wagga, Tamworth & Bathurst. That's the end of the penny section.

[HaroldParker]

It would appear to me that every club apart from the NSWHRC is in financial trouble, thus the cut to stakes. HRNSW is putting its money into infrastructure in strategic locations, ie Wagga, Tamworth & Bathurst. That's the end of the penny section.

and they'll do the arse Stu. Lightning struck once (Harold Park), the acquisition of which, of course, had nothing to do with the clowns who first ran it into the ground to then sell it. They want their own legacy i.e Wagga, Tamworth & Bathurst.

Wannabe Real Estate tycoons risking the future of the industry hoping for lightning to strike for a second, third and fourth time and beyond. This is sure to end well.

[Messenger]

Sky does us no favours not that we do ourselves any - Gp 3 Les Chant Cup at Menangle quickly relegated to Sky 2 when running late (maybe fair enough in hindsight as it went 10min late in the end and clashed with Albion Park!)

[Rob Nalder]

It is great to see the constructive thoughts going into our handicapping system from everyone. Each one of us has a firm view of what worked in the past and why it is failing us today. What is needed by all of us is to acknowledge we need to embrace change for the overall betterment of our great sport. What HRNSW has endeavoured to achieve with a new handicapping system is to find a way of reducing short priced fav coupled with horses racing like for like, in other words horses finding there own level to be competitive at. From what I have picked up HRNSW have some very impressive results that if correct only strengthens there reasons for undertaking such a challenge. From my point of view HRNSW have had some significant changes along the way that has allowed a better system. I don't like the idea of handing over a horse to a group to place it as they see fit. What I see as being the way forward is system that rates your horse based on set criteria that we can all follow and understand. This then allows Trainer / Driver & Owner all working towards a given plan for the betterment of all, including your Horse. We must develop a system that becomes a National System that also takes in NZ. As our sport needs to have one and all involved and rated under the same system.

We all need to see what HRNSW put out over the next 4 -6 weeks and then constructively pull it all apart so as to understand exactly what has taken place and how it all works for the overall betterment of our sport and not just how it affects my stable or myself.

Let us all keep working at it and see what we end up with.

[Pena]

Let me say firstly that I love the World Drivers Championships to date. The racing certainly has been much different to our everyday driving styles.
But in terms of the state of NSW racing, 3 penalty free heats were scheduled for today and HRNSW could not even get a meeting together.
If this does not make people realise the state of harness racing in NSW I do not think anything will.
Or maybe the administrators should have scheduled Tamworth for Monday to try and get the horses from a different pool and give the people of the North West some penalty free prizemoney. It staggers me to HRNSWs incompetence.

[aussiebreno]

Good effort Wagga to get 7 heats together.

Maybe less money should be distributed Sydney centric and more money Riverina huh.

[arlington]

(Is it) Good to see Hillier's doing their bit for harness racing/driver's championship/Wagga/penalty free....S Hillier that is.

[Pena]

Shame it could not be shared around.

[aussiebreno]

(Is it) Good to see Hillier's doing their bit for harness racing/driver's championship/Wagga/penalty free....S Hillier that is.
True.

[Pena]

Have to say reading the evidence I find this hearing laughable. Parking aside all of your preconceived thoughts and prejudice I could not image any court in the free world finding a decision like the Hillier case. Imagine being convicted on such a circumstantial case for murder,PLEASE!!
Perhaps the mushroom mentality is in place in NSW harness racing

[p plater]

Looking at todays fields at Menangle, in particular the C5 or better races, it appears having a field of 8 is more important than grading.
Why have a spread of C5 to C12 in race 6 and then C5 to C34 in race 9.
They could have had a C5 to C7 but only 7 starters, then C8 or better.
It is obvious these spreads are not in the participants best interest but in TAB turnover.
Want to break a C5 or C6 heart....this is the best way

[arlington]

Have to say reading the evidence I find this hearing laughable. Parking aside all of your preconceived thoughts and prejudice I could not image any court in the free world finding a decision like the Hillier case. Imagine being convicted on such a circumstantial case for murder,PLEASE!!
Perhaps the mushroom mentality is in place in NSW harness racing


Should I repost/edit Pena? Parking aside supposed preconceived thoughts and prejudices, Hilliers aren't the only pebbles on the beach in Australian harness racing in not acting outside of the rules in swapping the training over to a spouse/partner. When is a penalty a penalty...probabilities versus possibilities aside.

[Pena]

Wayne I don't disagree that this practice should not be allowed to happen. However, I ask you a question. I believe that during The Voice of Reasons (Michael Beattie) reign there was at least some transparency with regards Stewards Enquiries etc. I have tried to locate a number of the facts from recent Stewards Enquiries (Particularly cobalt related) and to be honest there used to be detailed records of the enquiries, up until a couple of years ago but now all we receive is a 5 paragraph media statement from HRNSW (with the exception of the Hillier Justification)
It is a joke!!!
I never thought I would say this but bring back the Voice.(Stop bagging you former colleagues in SA)

[arlington]

Ok Jack, you're asking me my opinion on transparency now versus M Beattie's time? I don't have a hassle with transparency in that a lot of what transpired during the McDowell/Day cases would have been replicated in other cobalt cases. Pretty open there. Similarly with the Green Light scandal.
Whether it's apt to use the word pedantic, I'm not sure.

[Race For Fun]

I'm sure that I will regret this but here goes. Who was the head steward when the green light affair was in full swing?

IMHO the fact that there are a large number of "positives" for different substances speaks volumes for the work being done by the current stewards. I surpose full transcripts would be a nice to have but I'm satisfied with the fact that the cheats are being caught.

[arlington]

My reference to the green light was purely related to Reid Sanders, not Bill Cable. I'm sure that's what Jack's going on about, current transparency.

[Race For Fun]

Think you will find Jack mentioned the bloke who was in charge when the green light affair was in full flight.

[arlington]

Ok, when it was rife...not the investigations that followed. Your point not lost on me Race For Fun.