Headlines

[apexguy]

Harness Racing in the news for the wrong reasons!

http://www.theage.com.au/sport/horseracing/police-raid-properties-in-harness-racing-probe-focused-on-cramp-family-20150201-133ioe.html

[squaregaiter]

todays headlines are yet another we as a industry don't need, if there is any "saving grace" with the "new" drug testing it may just get lost ( or wont be as stark) in other news going on' s from the other codes however this one has been a long time coming.

[Adaptor]

The right reasons !
People may be able to race competitively in the northern part of the state.Obviously this close examination of races and betting patterns has been going on for some time.
Great to see police integrity commission and stewards all involved , but brought to head by an impending article in the Age.

[Adaptor]

Headlines today may be for the right reasons !
People may be able to race competitively in the northern part of the state.Obviously this close examination of races and betting patterns has been going on for some time, as has the apparent reluctance of many to take horses to northern tracks, or to drive on the same tracks.
Great to see police integrity commission and stewards all involved , but brought to head by an impending article in the Age.
A fair go for all !

[brent_L]

Having 2,3 & 4 runners in some races + usually the short fav might just have been too enticing hey.

[Smoken]

The Age
Sequenzia recently owned Sushi Sushi, one of the most successful horses in the history of harness racing.



Where do these journalists get there information from? How do they retain there job, I have no idea.. SS could have potentially reached great heights, and he is surely missed, but seriously..

[Adaptor]

Perhaps they get their information here.
Check out the owners and history of Em MaGuan, ( and Bus To Harland) .

http://www.smh.com.au/national/crime-links-to-doping-race-scandal-20090910-fjdk.html

If you check the history of the horse, Tuppence Moran was a part owner of Tarleton Lee

[aussiebreno]

The Age
Sequenzia recently owned Sushi Sushi, one of the most successful horses in the history of harness racing.



Where do these journalists get there information from? How do they retain there job, I have no idea.. SS could have potentially reached great heights, and he is surely missed, but seriously..
$1,103,327 successes. Sorely in the top 50 all time earners? Does that not qualify as one of the most successful?

Sorely or surely? Leave it the journo hey because I think he's done a decent job with his research and the story to be left alone nit picking about a minor insignificant detail.

[BenScadden]

I think the reference was to the article's description of Sushi Sushi as one of the greatest harness horses of all time ... not the alleged criminal links

[aussiebreno]

On topic, if proven guilty and given time that is only a good thing for harness racing in Mildura.

[BenScadden]

Five arrests - A 29-year-old Merbein man, a Birdwoodton man, 57, a Bolinda man, 54, an Irymple man, 52, and a Mildura man, 34, were arrested and will be interviewed.

[Smoken]

I think the reference was to the article's description of Sushi Sushi as one of the greatest harness horses of all time ... not the alleged criminal links

You got it right Ben. I thought it was clear as day what I was getting at. He is sorely and surely missed by his fans.
The 'minor and insignificant details you mentioned, play a huge role in people's perception of the over all story and to the readers conclusion/s of the story. They can at least get it right from the start! SS shouldn't even have been mentioned in the story. My comments can be moved to the appropriate section if required.

[Toohard]

You got it right Ben. I thought it was clear as day what I was getting at. He is sorely and surely missed by his fans.
The 'minor and insignificant details you mentioned, play a huge role in people's perception of the over all story and to the readers conclusion/s of the story. They can at least get it right from the start! SS shouldn't even have been mentioned in the story. My comments can be moved to the appropriate section if required.


Don't see the relevance either. The Age (Fairfax) have been using that same line in every story they write about harness racing for 6 years now!

[Messenger]

I take some solace in the fact that it would seem to be all Mildura based - half of Melbourne could not tell you what state Mildura is in

[The Escape Club]

I take some solace in the fact that it would seem to be all Mildura based - half of Melbourne could not tell you what state Mildura is in


Bolinda certainly isn't Kev. Just near Romsey. The age doesn't quite fit so we'll have to wait and see if and when the names are actually released.

[BenScadden]

I've been told the names of three arrested ... two very, very predictable (and everyone could guess them) - but a touch surprised by the third. Obviously can't publish on here for legal reasons

[Mister JayKO]

Don't see the relevance either. The Age (Fairfax) have been using that same line in every story they write about harness racing for 6 years now!

Baker & McKenzie, together with Andrew Rule are the best investigative journalists in the state. While SS has been overplayed, these guys have been consistent with the links between Harness Racing and organised crime for many years. This story is big enough, but I'm lead to believe it might end up being a lot bigger - tip of the iceberg stuff.

The problem with all of the cases running at the minute is that they will linger and the negative press could further maim a sport in serious trouble.

[Messenger]

I've been told the names of three arrested ... two very, very predictable (and everyone could guess them) - but a touch surprised by the third. Obviously can't publish on here for legal reasons

Isn't The Age more or less naming a couple

http://www.theage.com.au/sport/horseracing/police-raid-properties-in-harness-racing-probe-focused-on-cramp-family-20150201-133ioe.html

[BenScadden]

That they do ... be interesting to see if they name the other three (as I said, I've heard one name but don't know the last couple)

[Messenger]

A more detailed report has just been put on The Age website at 6.35pm
This report clearly states Greg and Shayne Cramp were arrested

http://www.theage.com.au/sport/horseracing/integrity-commissioner-tackles-alleged-corruption-in-harness-racing-20150202-1345ux.html

[aussiebreno]

http://www.harness.org.au/news-article.cfm?news_id=23342

[barney]

If found guilty LIFE is the only acceptable penalty.This could well be the beggining of the end for harness racing as a punters sport.Has always been known as the red hots Cheating chariots and this will just confirm what people think.

[Toohard]

The problem with all of the cases running at the minute is that they will linger and the negative press could further maim a sport in serious trouble.


My point exactly Stu! Get sick of the continued denigrating of our sport by a company that never reports on any of the good things attached to it.

I'm not a student of law but I thought process was arrested. charged and found guilty in court. So where does 'suspected' fit in. And suspected by who? The journalists writing the story? Suspected = could be or might not exist?


So...


"Fairfax Media recently revealed how a suspected organised crime syndicate, led by prominent harness racing owner Paul Sequenzia and which is linked to top trainers and drivers, has also been suspected of harness race fixing."

Reword...


"Fairfax Media recently revealed how a organised crime syndicate that might not even exist, led by prominent harness racing owner Paul Sequenzia and which could be linked to top trainers and drivers, has also been suspected of harness race fixing that might not even exist."


Also.... from http://www.theage.com.au/sport/horseracing/integrity-commissioner-tackles-alleged-corruption-in-harness-racing-20150202-1345ux.html


Perna says harness racing anti-corruption measures are far less robust than those in thoroughbred racing. This is despite the fact that the headquarters of the two sporting codes are next to each other. Says Perna: "Harness racing has nothing like the integrity measures in thoroughbred. But all they need to do is cross the driveway to see how it could be done."


Yeh????


http://www.racingnetwork.com.au/racing-nsw-stewards-fine-peter-moody-12,000/tabid/83/newsid/23813/default.aspx

[aussiebreno]

If found guilty LIFE is the only acceptable penalty.This could well be the beggining of the end for harness racing as a punters sport.Has always been known as the red hots Cheating chariots and this will just confirm what people think.Settle down Brian. D Oliver still as loved in Vic Racing as Tom Brady is by Americans.

[barney]

Sorry Brendan he should have also been given a longer sentence but he never rigged races as these people have been alleged to have.To many hard working battlers in Harness to let these peole do that and get a slap on the wrist.

[arlington]

I agree with Breno, a bit over the top Brian...This could well be the beggining of the end for harness racing as a punters sport.
I'd have thoughtthis event, and the new collaboration with the Police would only help boost confidence in the sport.
If quoted correctly, I thought Sal Perna was a bit harsh on HRV's Integrity Unit, all they need do is cross the driveway to see how it could be done. Like anything else, funding would be the big difference.

[arlington]

http://www.harness.org.au/news-article.cfm?news_id=25605

[barney]

Guys i have loved Harness racing for a bloody long time and we now run 3rd behind greyhounds like it or not.The sport has a stigma and this latest is not going to help no matter what spin you put on it.Trainers have been given 10 years for cobalt chloride race rigging in my mind is worse.

[brent_L]

Settle down Brian. D Oliver still as loved in Vic Racing as Tom Brady is by Americans.
Fair go Brendan.....Brady hasn't been found guilty of anything whatsoever, unlike Oliver.

[arlington]

I wasn't commenting on penalties Barney.

[barney]

I was and if they dont give them life if found guilty people will laugh at the sport and not take it serious .It is a serious sport with people making livings out of it and lets face betting turnover is an important part of it.Sponsorship also and who would sponsor a sport tainted by cheating not to mention the drugs.Victoria Harness has not had one positive as yet why.

[aussiebreno]

Guys i have loved Harness racing for a bloody long time and we now run 3rd behind greyhounds like it or not.The sport has a stigma and this latest is not going to help no matter what spin you put on it.Trainers have been given 10 years for cobalt chloride race rigging in my mind is worse.
I agree race rigging is worse, and the stigma is bad (but at least it's being cleaned up) and that they should get very, very long sentences. But I just don't see how it's the end of harness racing as a punters sport. Just as much cash will be wagered today (if not more) in the Vic TAB pools at Mildura as last meeting even with the smaller fields.



Fair go Brendan.....Brady hasn't been found guilty of anything whatsoever, unlike Oliver.
Oh sorry I can so how you get that. I didn't mean to infer from deflategate, I just mean the genuine love for his 4 superbowls and 3 MVPs.

[arlington]

Pretty sure there's a link posted in the cobalt thread barney, HRV has reportedly got a positive for cobalt. As for apparent inaction I'd say the outcomes of the McDowell/Day harness racing and Darren Smith thoroughbred court actions will determine where HRV go. Once again a money thing, could Victorian harness racing cop a seven figure legal expense right now?
Could we look at it more positively considering these charges are also criminal now? The implications with being relicensed with a criminal record, if convicted.

[teecee]

Has turnover fallen through the floor in NSW harness racing?
When will harness racing close down in NSW?
Is this situation in Victoria worst, on a par, not as bad as bribery of the officials who police the sport a la NSW harness racing not a lifetime ago?


IMO...
No
Not in my lifetime
on a par

[Messenger]

That is what I call cutting to the chase TC
Only different answer for me would be the last ...
Not as bad

[Messenger]

It is hard to believe the release of Australian journalist Peter Greste is on pg 10 of The Age (would have expected on fr page) while the Cramps are on pg 8

[barney]

Has turnover fallen through the floor in NSW harness racing?
When will harness racing close down in NSW?
Is this situation in Victoria worst, on a par, not as bad as bribery of the officials who police the sport a la NSW harness racing not a lifetime ago?


Not in my lifetime
on a par

I can talk from personal experience as the site im involved with which is bqasicaly a harness site has gone from over a hundred active members to less than 30 with some long term harness fans saying they no longer follow the sport.We can ignore this and think all is well but fooling ourselves.

[Mister JayKO]

I can talk from personal experience as the site im involved with which is bqasicaly a harness site has gone from over a hundred active members to less than 30 with some long term harness fans saying they no longer follow the sport.We can ignore this and think all is well but fooling ourselves.
Barney, I would concur with your view, punters will continue to punt, it's the involvement of people at grass roots, owners, enthusiasts, breeders and sponsors that are most at risk In some regards this to me looks like a bit of an Al Capone type of scenario (draw your own conclusions) given the races concerned and the "relatively small amounts" allegedly involved. I am not sure why The Age does not cover Harness Racing, but certainly in Sydney the SMH always has. With respect to posters criticising their coverage, this is sophisticated organised crime and its involvement in the industry unfortunately goes way back. Policing of the sport has always lagged due to lack of funding and resources, so to an extent it has always been vulnerable. In the days when I went to the trots, I saw enough questionable races or performances that should have raised ?'s in every instance there was usually a trail of $$ that signalled something was not right, most were never followed up satisfactorily. I was there the night Coloresque was retired with broken gear and thought nothing of it at the time, because there was no evident money trail and it was by pure fluke that that was picked up.

On another thread their is discussion regarding champs of the past. A horse considered one the finest ever produced should have massive ? Against whether he competed on the level given the allegations of suspected use of EPO way ahead of its time in this country.
The cobalt inquiries I suspect have to stand still until the NSW test case is resolved, HRV cannot afford to go off half cocked here or it will signal the end of the spirt as a profession, Andrew Rule has already forecast the end of the sport, it will need significant government assistance to get the integrity controls in place to do so.

[teecee]

I can talk from personal experience as the site im involved with which is bqasicaly a harness site has gone from over a hundred active members to less than 30 with some long term harness fans saying they no longer follow the sport.We can ignore this and think all is well but fooling ourselves.


With respect, a forum with a membership of over 100 losing 70% of its active members is a statistically insignificant event in the life or history of harness racing. You may have lost one or less for all the many scandals to have rocked the sport even in my short lifetime.
Contrary to what has been claimed here the latest, IMO, "hiccup" to racing and in particular Victoria's turn has no chance of ending nor even contributing to the end of harness racing. Harness racing, along with many other sports where there is a "need to win" like cycling and football ,has not died nor become extinct as a result of a few "bad apples" contaminating the barrel. The current situation is not different to the many similar instances within the history of sport, gambling and prizes.

[barney]

I have had at its peak over 2000 members not all active including some participants in the sport but a lot no longer look in.

[arlington]

On another thread their is discussion regarding champs of the past. A horse considered one the finest ever produced should have massive ? Against whether he competed on the level given the allegations of suspected use of EPO way ahead of its time in this country.
The cobalt inquiries I suspect have to stand still until the NSW test case is resolved, HRV cannot afford to go off half cocked here or it will signal the end of the spirt as a profession, Andrew Rule has already forecast the end of the sport, it will need significant government assistance to get the integrity controls in place to do so.


Are you referring to a horse in the hype and delusion thread Stu?

[Mister JayKO]

Are you referring to a horse in the hype and delusion thread Stu?

Yes

[Diablo]

What I am bewildered with at the moment is the fact the 'Investigators' seem to have had prior knowledge to what was being scripted in certain races but punters were still allowed to place bets which were always going to turn into vapour. I guess they would call this 'collateral damage' but, surely, when the races in question become common knowledge there should be some kind of recourse for punters to recover their losses.

[squaregaiter]

Has turnover fallen through the floor in NSW harness racing?
When will harness racing close down in NSW?
Is this situation in Victoria worst, on a par, not as bad as bribery of the officials who police the sport a la NSW harness racing not a lifetime ago?
IMO...
No
Not in my lifetime
on a par


the first out of Mildura is interesting when the sky was projected to possible fall
Win pool down marginally
Place pool UP
Tri UP 30%
Quin UP over 40%
Ex "same"
First 4 UP-DOUBLE
Run Dub down marginally
OVER ALL the pools were UP over 20% !


this is based on the last meeting thereon the 21st Jan again "just another meeting like tonight"

[Maorisidol]

the first out of Mildura is interesting when the sky was projected to possible fall
Win pool down marginally
Place pool UP
Tri UP 30%
Quin UP over 40%
Ex "same"
First 4 UP-DOUBLE
Run Dub down marginally
OVER ALL the pools were UP over 20% !


this is based on the last meeting thereon the 21st Jan again "just another meeting like tonight"

Maybe punters are confident they will get a fair go tonite!!!

[barney]

I for the first time for a long time actualy looked at Mildura to have a bet as no Cramp factor to take into account

[squaregaiter]

the first out of Mildura is interesting when the sky was projected to possible fall
Win pool down marginally
Place pool UP
Tri UP 30%
Quin UP over 40%
Ex "same"
First 4 UP-DOUBLE
Run Dub down marginally
OVER ALL the pools were UP over 20% !
this is based on the last meeting thereon the 21st Jan again "just another meeting like tonight"


Quaddie Pool UP around 10% as well :)

[aussiebreno]

What I am bewildered with at the moment is the fact the 'Investigators' seem to have had prior knowledge to what was being scripted in certain races but punters were still allowed to place bets which were always going to turn into vapour. I guess they would call this 'collateral damage' but, surely, when the races in question become common knowledge there should be some kind of recourse for punters to recover their losses.

Once proven guilty possibly civil cases against Cramp. Would need to have had a large bet to cover legals, doubt anybody would have.

[Diablo]

Once proven guilty possibly civil cases against Cramp. Would need to have had a large bet to cover legals, doubt anybody would have.

Class action.

[aussiebreno]

Class action.
True.

[Messenger]

Another punting driver caught (it reads as if it was last Friday)
The link can take a few tries to open

http://www.dailyadvertiser.com.au/story/2864839/moran-to-face-stewards-after-betting-against-his-drive/?cs=149

[Chariots]

If any disqualification was pro rata to the Damien Oliver disqualification it would be 1.5 days. :D

[Messenger]

If any disqualification was pro rata to the Damien Oliver disqualification it would be 1.5 days. :D

Very funny :D
Very clever :cool:
Very correct :mad: