Substances

[Messenger]

No apologies for the vague heading as we need THE other word to disappear from our industry

2 more states in the news for the wrong reasons today

http://www.harnesslink.com/Australia/Testosterone-Enanthate-found-in-stable-visit

http://www.harnesslink.com/Australia/Drug-irregularity-at-Young

[aussiebreno]

With the publishing of cobalt results, is there any chance results for bicarb and other substances could be published as well?

[Messenger]

When were cobalt last updated? I reckon they went quiet about the same time Adam left our board - which in itself was very suss PR

[Race For Fun]

With the publishing of cobalt results, is there any chance results for bicarb and other substances could be published as well?

NSW publishes a list of anyone who is nudging the limit and that horse has to be at the races 4 hours before start time for as long as the stewards decide to be tested.

Click on Industry Pages
Industry & Integrity
Integrity Notices

http://www.harnessmediacentre.com.au/uploads/files/integrity%20notices/2015-02-05_elevated%20tco2%20levels%20notice%20horses%20re quired%20to%20present%20early.pdf

Cobalt results are also found here.

[Messenger]

NSW publishes a list of anyone who is nudging the limit and that horse has to be at the races 4 hours before start time for as long as the stewards decide to be tested.

Click on Industry Pages
Industry & Integrity
Integrity Notices

http://www.harnessmediacentre.com.au/uploads/files/integrity%20notices/2015-02-05_elevated%20tco2%20levels%20notice%20horses%20re quired%20to%20present%20early.pdf

Cobalt results are also found here.

Thanks Toni, I found the latest Cobalt results
but to clarify about presenting early
that would seem to be for TCO2 not cobalt - am I correct?

[Race For Fun]

Thanks Toni, I found the latest Cobalt results
but to clarify about presenting early
that would seem to be for TCO2 not cobalt - am I correct?

Yes thats right Kevin TCO2 only and NSW only.

[arlington]

Do they seem very lenient penalties for Testosterone?

[Toohard]

With the publishing of cobalt results, is there any chance results for bicarb and other substances could be published as well?

Yes! Surely not that hard to do

[Messenger]

http://www.harnesslink.com/Australia/Trainer-disqualified-for-twelve-months

Hillier only gets 12mths - we have to be tougher than that

[Messenger]

http://www.harnesslink.com/Australia/Trainer-outed-for-twelve-months

Too light again. Definitely nothing circumstantial about this one Jack

[teecee]

http://www.harnesslink.com/Australia/Trainer-outed-for-twelve-months

Too light again. Definitely nothing circumstantial about this one Jack


The one charge issued suggests there was no prohibited substance used / found to be used but rather the act (of using a stomach tube, often used legally) , within the 48hrs of racing which breaches the rules only.
In the circumstances it may not be all that light.

[Messenger]

The one charge issued suggests there was no prohibited substance used / found to be used but rather the act (of using a stomach tube, often used legally) , within the 48hrs of racing which breaches the rules only.
In the circumstances it may not be all that light.

Fair enough and I know he is not guilty of presenting a horse with an excess TCO2 level but I found the disqualification of gallops trainer Mark Riley for such interesting. He was disqualified for 3 years which is the mandatory minimum - do we have a mandatory penalty like this?

[Pena]

Kevin, not sure what your legal background is but the information to find Hillier guilty is without a doubt circumstantial.
The definition of circumstantial is;
"Circumstantial evidence is evidence that relies on an inference to connect it to a conclusion of fact."
Mathew Neilsen was just given 12 months treating a horse on race day and he was actually observed by stewards doing so. Definitely not circumstantial.
HRNSW used results from 2 starts one with a steward on the premises before the race and one with out. 100% circumstantial. The horse did not actually test over the limits. No real evidence. If this was in a court of law it would be thrown out, no actually it would never even get to the court as the evidence is almost laughable.

[aussiebreno]

You on some substances yourself Jack?

[Pena]

No substances Brendan just not blissfully ignorant.
Read the facts and make up my own mind.

[aussiebreno]

So at the end of the day do you reckon Hillier's have cheated or not?

[Pena]

The facts are Brendan, I believe there are a large number of people within the industry on a daily basis that contravene the rules. However without any genuine evidence, that would stand up in a court of law nobody should be prosecuted. There are many instances in history when people have been prosecuted without any genuine evidence and history and people despise these regimes. There has been a worrying trend of HRNSW being a law until themselves and personally I think this is having a detrimental effect on the industry as a whole. I all for punishing the guilty as long as the evidence and research is there and in this situation I do not believe there is sufficient non-circumstantial evidence.

[aussiebreno]

http://www.harnessmediacentre.com.au/uploads/files/integrity%20notices/kim%20hillier%20and%20peter%20hillyer%20decision%2 0re%20tco2.pdf

What do you make of page 13 and page 14?

No lawyer here but makes sense to me.

[HISGEN65]

do you think that horse racing will ever get to the stage where every race meeting will have some sort of "lock-down" period prior to the race ? this topic could even warrant its own thread ?

[Pena]

Brendan, unfortunately I think this demonstrates exactly where the industry has headed in the last 2 years. To start, with the precedents that the stewards have documented there are as many have been decided in the other parties favour. If HRNSW think they are a court why don't they start with an independent judge from day one. Can you imagine our legal system if the police prosecutor was also the magistrate. I am tipping that there would not be to many people being found "not guilty". HRNSW stewards ultimately know that to fight it they will simply bleed the participants dry. Note to HRNSW stewards you are not lawyers.

[aussiebreno]

Brendan, unfortunately I think this demonstrates exactly where the industry has headed in the last 2 years. To start, with the precedents that the stewards have documented there are as many have been decided in the other parties favour. If HRNSW think they are a court why don't they start with an independent judge from day one. Can you imagine our legal system if the police prosecutor was also the magistrate. I am tipping that there would not be to many people being found "not guilty". HRNSW stewards ultimately know that to fight it they will simply bleed the participants dry. Note to HRNSW stewards you are not lawyers.

It doesn't matter what the decision was in the other cases, it's about how the decision was made.


http://www5.austlii.edu.au/au/legis/nsw/consol_act/hra2009144/

Section 9 and 10 among others.

Legislation allows stewards to carry out the jobs they are doing.

You're getting frustrated at stewards doing their legislated job all the while going easy on people giving their horses bicarb. Doesn't make sense to me.

[arlington]

I'd find it hard to believe the stewards, in cases such as this, wouldn't use the time between adjournments to avail themselves to advice from legal counsel. Without prejudice the interests of all participants in the sport would be the focus of such enquiries and that of the 50 cent punter who may have bet on another runner in a race under scrutiny. Is it only my thoughts, the grey area between civil and criminal is becoming less questionable within racing?

[Messenger]

Kevin, not sure what your legal background is but the information to find Hillier guilty is without a doubt circumstantial.
The definition of circumstantial is;
"Circumstantial evidence is evidence that relies on an inference to connect it to a conclusion of fact."
Mathew Neilsen was just given 12 months treating a horse on race day and he was actually observed by stewards doing so. Definitely not circumstantial.
HRNSW used results from 2 starts one with a steward on the premises before the race and one with out. 100% circumstantial. The horse did not actually test over the limits. No real evidence. If this was in a court of law it would be thrown out, no actually it would never even get to the court as the evidence is almost laughable.
I do not remember saying the evidence was not circumstantial Jack. I do not know what your legal background is but I am an ex English teacher so I can do without the dictionary definitions

[Pena]

Brendan, get off your high horse. The facts are the horses TCO2 levels were under the allowable limits, plain and simple. If the level is too high then the stewards should simply drop the limit. But if you can't get them on one rule then get them on another one. I think that this case has gone of half coked just like the Cobalt testing HRNSW has conducted. Why did the stewards not do the stable inspection for say the next 3 starts of the horses the information undoubtedly been more compelling than comparing one week with the next week. Don't even get me started on the 5 pastured fed broodmares for 3 days because this will be shown as the sham it is.

[aussiebreno]

Brendan, get off your high horse. The facts are the horses TCO2 levels were under the allowable limits, plain and simple. If the level is too high then the stewards should simply drop the limit. But if you can't get them on one rule then get them on another one. I think that this case has gone of half coked just like the Cobalt testing HRNSW has conducted. Why did the stewards not do the stable inspection for say the next 3 starts of the horses the information undoubtedly been more compelling than comparing one week with the next week. Don't even get me started on the 5 pastured fed broodmares for 3 days because this will be shown as the sham it is.
A Little Bit Frosty 27/7/14
Mean Courage 8/8/14
Bicarb Shake 9/5/14
Bicarb Shake 24/4/14

[Richard prior]

Brendan, get off your high horse. The facts are the horses TCO2 levels were under the allowable limits, plain and simple. If the level is too high then the stewards should simply drop the limit. But if you can't get them on one rule then get them on another one. I think that this case has gone of half coked just like the Cobalt testing HRNSW has conducted. Why did the stewards not do the stable inspection for say the next 3 starts of the horses the information undoubtedly been more compelling than comparing one week with the next week. Don't even get me started on the 5 pastured fed broodmares for 3 days because this will be shown as the sham it is.

Hey Breno, There it is, The answer to your question, 7th line, 4th word lol.

[Pena]

Brendan you are obviously involved in racing in this region and have an axe to grind, so as I have said if your trainer was disqualified under these terms I think there is no doubt you would be aggrieved. It takes a big man to be subjective and not driven by self interest.

Kevin I apologise on the circumstantial as I did not actually open the link and see it was regarding the Mathew Neilsen case.

[aussiebreno]

Brendan you are obviously involved in racing in this region and have an axe to grind, so as I have said if your trainer was disqualified under these terms I think there is no doubt you would be aggrieved. It takes a big man to be subjective and not driven by self interest.

Kevin I apologise on the circumstantial as I did not actually open the link and see it was regarding the Mathew Neilsen case.
Mr O'Donoghue, do you want to step in with definitions of objective and subjective? Poor Jack's been a bit confused in this thread.

[aussiebreno]

Gee, Jack. Here I was ignoring the high horse, axe to grind, 'big man' comments and I make one off the point remark and you're fair into me.
F*** what the stewards say, there are readings of 35 and 36+, I know what science says.

Edit: Teecee has deleted a post of Jack's which means this post doesn't make sense.

[Pena]

If that's what the science says why don't you lobby to change the rules, that simple.
I have not seen once you ask why is the TCO2 level not 33. Attacking you motivation is hardly attacking you grammar.

[aussiebreno]

If that's what the science says why don't you lobby to change the rules, that simple.
I have not seen once you ask why is the TCO2 level not 33. Attacking you motivation is hardly attacking you grammar.
Why would I lobby for the TC02 level to go down to 33? Some horses could go to this level naturally. Cobalt level is something I would be looking at wanting to go down.
You say you haven't seen me once ask why the TC02 level isn't 33. If you that keen on checking out my post history maybe you should reassess your motivation insults. Tipping look at my post history says nothing about Hillier's (unless I've tipped on of their's in the tips section) apart from this thread but plenty about other people who have got time for prohibited substance use.

[Pena]

To be honest I am done debating this issue with you. As you say horses TCO2 levels fluctuate and by the stewards targeting one stable it shows there prejudice. I would like to see every horse over 33 be identified and have the same stable inspection on their next race day. If the level drops to 30 as in case charge them and rub them out. Its a targeted attack on one person but why don't the stewards do this to every trainer outside of the one standard deviation and charge them all.

[aussiebreno]

To be honest I am done debating this issue with you. As you say horses TCO2 levels fluctuate and by the stewards targeting one stable it shows there prejudice. I would like to see every horse over 33 be identified and have the same stable inspection on their next race day. If the level drops to 30 as in case charge them and rub them out. Its a targeted attack on one person but why don't the stewards do this to every trainer outside of the one standard deviation and charge them all.
If you doing nothing wrong what wrong with being targeted? It was hardly invasive targeting either. You reckon I need to be objective, this whinging about targeting seems pretty subjective to me Jack?
Your initial gripe was about the circumstantial evidence and now your answer is to identify ones over 33 and rub them out if the level drops below 30. No pleasing you Jack.
The Hillers weren't only one standard deviation out, and one standard deviation still have has a relatively high number of horses who fall outside naturally. That's why stewards don't do that.

[Pena]

How do you know they occur naturally unless you inspect the stables on raced ay and make sure they are not drenched??

[Messenger]

http://www.condenaststore.com/-sp/It-is-not-done-well-but-one-is-surprised-to-find-it-done-at-all-New-Yorker-Cartoon-Prints_i9726608_.htm

[arlington]

I thought the stewards clearly displayed why the Hillier runners were looked at. Doesn't look like prejudice to me, with those statistics any specific stable would be looked at...I'd hope. Irrespective of outcome I'm of the opinion the stewards would not be doing the right thing by (prejudicing) other participants and punters if they didn't, at the bare minimum, ask questions of the stable.

[aussiebreno]

How do you know they occur naturally unless you inspect the stables on raced ay and make sure they are not drenched??
You don't actually know if they are natural or not, but based on normal results in a normal horse population a lot of horses could get a reading of 33 and for it to be natural therefore setting the threshold at 33 is too low given the chance of it being natural (from the science I have read).

[Danno]

Buggered if I know how the "natural Level" of TC02 would be ascertained in this case when you take into account evidence tendered on page 11,


http://www.harnessmediacentre.com.au/uploads/files/integrity%20notices/kim%20hillier%20and%20peter%20hillyer%20decision%2 0re%20tco2.pdf

my maths tell me the horses were getting 500 grams of Bi-Carb per twenty litres of drinking water...if this was right how in the hell would you ever establish a "natural Level"

[Messenger]

http://www.harnesslink.com/Australia/Another-one-bites-the-dust

Will it ever stop? I am starting to think the industry is simply riddled with cheats

[jackthepunter]

http://www.harnesslink.com/Australia/Another-one-bites-the-dust

Will it ever stop? I am starting to think the industry is simply riddled with cheats

Unfortunately it never will Kev , so many of the so called greats of the game only got to were they did because of it. Alot of trainers believe they can't complete with out help. It always has been part of the sport and always will be. The sad thing is the next big thing is probably already out their been used, theirs always something new out their some trainer will be trying.

[Messenger]

I am starting to think the war has been lost. Lunched with a racing man who is a retired pharmacist and he was telling me about a compounding business whose biggest clients are horse vets :(
I think that our only hope is to regulate the vets somehow - maybe if they had strict guidelines and faced the possibility of criminal prosecution/deregistration for breaches

[Messenger]

Not a good look for QLD - the first 3 stories on Harnesslink news Australia are all QLD drug problems

[DRUIDRACING]

All these positive tests I cannot believe these people keep on using. Do they think they wont get tested ? I dont get it they keep using.........is there someone telling them what and how to use to avoid the positive.........or just desperate.

And not the little stables either. No wonder the industry is struggling.

[Messenger]

I can only assume that most dopers think they have an effective masking agent

[trish]

Further Samples Update – Mr Shaun Simiana

20 September 2016
http://www.harness.org.au/news/images/logos/HRNSW-2.gif

FURTHER to the media release issued by Harness Racing New South Wales on 1 August 2016, HRNSW advises that it has received further reports from both the Australian Racing Forensic Laboratory (ARFL) and the Hong Kong Jockey Club Racing Laboratory (HKJCRL) that the Peptide VNFYAWK had been detected in the out-of-competition blood samples taken from the following horses which were stabled at the registered training establishment of Mr Simiana between the period 17 April and 3 May 2016.


WALKABOUT CREEK - sample collected on 17 April 2016;
FRANCO TIAGO - sample collected on 18 April 2016;
WALKABOUT CREEK - sample collected on 18 April 2016;
WALKABOUT CREEK - sample collected on 3 May 2016.

Peptide VNFYAWK is known to be a highly specific fragment of recombinant human erythropoietin or darbepoetin alpha or methoxy polyethylene glycol-epoetin beta or recombinant human EPO-Fc.
HRNSW has also received advice from the LGC Laboratory in the United Kingdom that its analysis of the sample taken from FRANCO TIAGO on 17 April 2016 revealed the presence of darbepoetin.
Mr Simiana was stood down by HRNSW on 29 July 2016, and has been notified of these additional samples.
Mr Simiana has not been charged with any breach of the Rules and has not appealed against the imposition of Rule 183.
HRNSW Stewards have commenced an investigation into these results and an inquiry will be scheduled in due course.

[trish]

All I can say & have done for a long long time, is keep up the good work.


http://www.harness.org.au/news-article.cfm?news_id=31046

[trish]

Not a good look for QLD - the first 3 stories on Harnesslink news Australia are all QLD drug problems


At first I could not understand why they were fined & not given time but reading the drug penalty code for Qld, it became apparent .

Queensland penalties
HOT on the heels of the above, the head of the Queensland Racing Integrity Commission, Commissioner Ross Barnett, released a draft schedule of minimum penalties for drug offences in racing.
Three categories of drugs are covered and the fourth and fifth parts concern failure to supply a sample from a registered animal, or refusal to supply a sample by a participant.
Part (1) covers banned prohibited substances, those which have no place in horse racing. Examples such as heroin, cocaine, cannabis and derivatives, LSD and growth hormones.
Where no previous conviction is recorded the minimum is six years disqualification. With a previous conviction, Australia wide or in New Zealand in the last eight years, a life penalty applies.
Part (2) includes 12 classes of prohibited substances, including recent compounds of interest such as cobalt, arsenic and alkalizing agents. Presentation of an animal to race with any of the listed substances brings a first offender a minimum 12 months disqualification. Two years if one conviction in the previous five years.
With two convictions in that five year period, the guilty party is sidelined for five years and three convictions in an eight year span brings the life penalty.
Part (3) provides for "other prohibited substances", anti-inflammatory agents and other drugs of therapeutic benefit to the animal outside of racing (pre-race cut off periods).
A somewhat "softer" approach is taken here with stewards given the option of applying fines of $4000, or four months suspension, and $8000, or six months suspension, for a second offence across a five year period. Disqualifications of two and five years apply for infractions of two and three offences in a two and five year time frame.
Part (4) involves failure to present an animal for sampling. It is six years out for the first offence, followed by life for the second in the eight year span.
Part (5) relates to participants refusing to supply a personal sample and commences with a disqualification of 12 months. A further refusal within a five year period brings life outside of harness racing.
It looks pretty savage on the surface. But if you look a bit deeper and consider what it is designed to achieve - a "level playing field' theory - it provides a great incentive for an honest approach to racing.
From the animal welfare issue it is a very welcome initiative.

[trish]

Love the look of the LIFE stuff..........


I thought Dexamethasone was a steroid???

[Messenger]

http://www.harnesslink.com/Australia/Inquiry-Update-Mr-Shaun-Simiana

EPO and Peptides :mad:

[trish]

http://www.harness.org.au/news-archive.cfm?period=all&pCategoryId=7&limitToState=AUS&x=58&y=14


I had a quick look at this list today.....................................how depressing.

[Messenger]

Thank you to Equineexellence for passing on the following info.
It certainly is interesting to compare

"To confirm, NZ Harness Racing Swabs 1 August - (to date) 31 October 2016 total 399
One positive to Ketamine"

No positives to Cobalt or Arsenic

[trish]

http://www.harness.org.au/news-article.cfm?news_id=31669




What a great result for Harness Racing Victoria , congratulations to them.


I believe that a way to , even further , lift public confidence would be for ALL swab results from ALL codes to be made available for public scrutiny via a dedicated website. This would leave NO questions.

[trish]

http://www.harnessmediacentre.com.au/news/1542/integrity-strategies--out-of-competition-testing-1

"more than 40 out-of-competition swab samples have been collected over the past two days."

[trish]

http://www.paulickreport.com/news/ray-s-paddock/combating-culture-cheating/ good read.....


Out-of-competition testing occurs days, weeks, or months before a horse's race, or between races. Its goal is to determine if horses are training on prohibited drugs that can enhance performance on race day.http://www.paulickreport.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/01/Epogen-from-Amgen-240x182.jpgBlood doping drugs like Epogen (EPO) cause the body to produce additional blood cells that allow the athlete – horse or human – to increase their oxygen carrying capacity. The drug can only be detected for approximately three days after administration. The performance-enhancing effects will last up to 120 days – which is the life span of a red blood cell.
Many anabolic steroids are like blood doping drugs in that the performance enhancing effects far exceed the short time frame of detection.
States with little or no out-of-competition testing have invited their horsemen to cheat with impunity.

[trish]

I remember someone way back told me this


The drug can only be detected for approximately three days after administration. The performance-enhancing effects will last up to 120 days........

[KTQ]

Cheats don't get long enough
http://www.racingbase.com/category/harness/mccarthy-disqualified-for-12-months-20170209-0007/

[Showgrounds]

Cheats don't get long enough
http://www.racingbase.com/category/harness/mccarthy-disqualified-for-12-months-20170209-0007/

Interesting to see where the horse was just a few weeks before being transferred to B McCarthy.

[Messenger]

Interesting to see where the horse was just a few weeks before being transferred to B McCarthy.

Harnessweb shows that to be Ahmed Taiba

[Messenger]

Glenn Douglas had a double at Cobram yesterday. How this stable is still in existence is an indictment on our industry

"The particulars of Charge 1 were that Mr Douglas frustrated the investigation of the Stewards by not ensuring the immediate notification of the death of the horse ‘Talk To The Hand’, by arranging the removal of the horse from the course and by permitting the horse to be buried in Boundary Bend, Victoria, with asbestos piping, actions which inhibited the extent of the post-mortem autopsy conducted upon the horse"

http://www.harnesslink.com/News/Glenn-Douglas-Eric-Anderson-disqualified

[teecee]

The referred article is 3 years old. Where are you going with this in relation to this thread..???...!!!!!!!

[Messenger]

The first line. Simply - penalties are nowhere near harsh enough

[trish]

The referred article is 3 years old. Where are you going with this in relation to this thread..???...!!!!!!!








So what if its 3 years old......I'm with Kevin on this one.

[teecee]

So what if its 3 years old......I'm with Kevin on this one.

I'm not and I'm sure Kev is not taking sides. That is clearly not what our posts are about.... Moving on.

[trish]

I'm not and I'm sure Kev is not taking sides. That is clearly not what our posts are about.... Moving on.

I was agreeing that penalties are not harsh enough .

[Messenger]

I can see that TC might think I am being a wee bit vindictive toward the Douglas stable but call my post an opinion post where I am taking the side of the industry as I am still in disbelief that a leading stable could return to the industry so quickly after pleading guilty to Charge 1 - an offense that can never be erased by them or the industry BUT I will move on.

[teecee]

I was just wondering if you had picked the right story or was there something more modern about the saga I had missed. As john wayne would say.."That is all".

[Messenger]

Oh I get it now (you NZers :)). No, no update, other than that the stable seems to be on the rise.

[trish]

Therefore Mr Simiana was disqualified for a total period of 16 years to commence from 28 July 2016




http://www.harness.org.au/news-article.cfm?news_id=32745

[Messenger]

No wonder he came to the stewards attention - he had a winning strike rate of 44% and a place strike rate of 69%

[arlington]

Trying to recover the costs of analytical testing when handing down a judgement is a good thing for the industry but I've often wondered about the costs of swabs/analytical testing once someone returns from a suspension/disqualification. It may only appear this way to me but the stewards in some states follow up with swabs etc. when they return. I imagine for a few reasons, but this cost is borne by the industry/controlling body. I know some people will say they've done their time...persecution...harassment but should the rest of participants keep paying for this?

[Messenger]

You would make an excellent Treasurer Wayne

[Messenger]

No doubt many have heard this ancient story but for those who haven't :

The day is often recalled when the late Duke of Norfolk accosted a trainer he had noticed giving "something" to a horse an hour or so before a race. "My good man! You should not be doing that sort of thing," said the Duke. "It could have a deleterious effect on racing."

The little cockney trainer replied that the "something" was merely a handful of sugar cubes - "quite harmless, Your Grace". To prove his bona fides, the trainer added, "I'll eat one and you have one too - they're nice and sweet." The Duke duly accepted the offer of the tidbit.

With that the trainer and the Duke departed. The trainer then walked over to his jockey and advised bluntly: "Now look, if anything passes you on this horse it will be either me or the Duke of Norfolk!"

Gentlemen Of The Australian Turf by David Hickie

I shouldn't laugh as it makes light of equine (and human) welfare - I'll blame my convict past

[trish]

http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/dta.2198/full

[arlington]

MEDIA RELEASE

10 April, 2017 – HRV Integrity Department using drone technology

Harness Racing Victoria (HRV) Integrity Department advises that the services of unmanned Aerial
Vehicles (drones) have recently been utilised as part of investigations into suspected race day
administration and treatment.

HRV engaged the services of a Civil Aviation Safety Authority (CASA) approved external private
company considered industry leaders in this area.

HRV Integrity Department will continue to use drones in future investigations to detect trainers
engaging in race day administration or treatment. These measures are paramount to the integrity of
harness racing and ensuring a level playing field.

The HRV Integrity Department is committed to ensuring such offences are disrupted and when
detected, evidence is gathered against those responsible who are breaching the Australian Harness
Racing Rules (AHRR).

[trish]

Smiled when I read this.
I do not think it will work that well as I would be sure if you were going to inject/drench your horse on race day , most would do it in stables inside barns. However if you have outdoor stables it could work.

[arlington]

Thought the same trish but also acts as a deterrent (disrupted). Also track non licensed persons entering stables on race day etc. Hope it works.
On a lighter side, one of the first things that crossed my mind with an outdoor stable, no more peeing around the corner!

[allanjg]

maybe if they think they are being watched, some trainers might back off a little, hhmmm.

[trish]

They may put the race day ones down in the last stables.....http://allenweld.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/05/Indoor-stable.jpg

[Tangles]

So when my $30 000 two year old is buzzed by the drone boys and bolts through a fence who do I sue?

It is currently bad enough when the aerial line surveys happen and they notify me with 28 days of INTENT TO SURVEY. Straight to the barrister.

[Messenger]

Interesting question MJ. I am profoundly deaf and never thought about whether others can actually hear drones - are they noisy?
I suppose if one was defending them you could ask whether they are anymore likely to spook a horse than say a crow or a seagull?

[Tangles]

Interesting question MJ. I am profoundly deaf and never thought about whether others can actually hear drones - are they noisy?
I suppose if one was defending them you could ask whether they are anymore likely to spook a horse than say a crow or a seagull?

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/10/15/call-for-tougher-rules-over-drone-danger-to-livestock-and-wilfli/
http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2017/02/28/cows-have-a-new-enemy-drones.html
http://www.beefcentral.com/features/beefworks-2015-report/drones-hold-promise-in-cattle-applications-but-beware-some-of-the-myths/
some sites of interest

[trish]

maybe we can get one of these .http://themysteryvault.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/11/0-2.jpg (http://www.google.com.au/url?sa=i&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=images&cd=&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0ahUKEwihr7qky53TAhWQQpQKHYKVAHMQjRwIBw&url=http%3A%2F%2Fthemysteryvault.com%2Feagles-destroy-corporate-drones-cost-mining-company-more-than-100000%2F&psig=AFQjCNEjOfvy0fNN-vS9E3F6iczWlyLLlg&ust=1492040739151682)

[Yabbie]

I am informed someone in Mildura was caught with the drone doing exactly that!

[Messenger]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/10/15/call-for-tougher-rules-over-drone-danger-to-livestock-and-wilfli/
http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2017/02/28/cows-have-a-new-enemy-drones.html
http://www.beefcentral.com/features/beefworks-2015-report/drones-hold-promise-in-cattle-applications-but-beware-some-of-the-myths/
some sites of interest

Thanks MJ, it would certainly seem to be a minefield

[Messenger]

I am informed someone in Mildura was caught with the drone doing exactly that!

Doing what Carol - filming an eagle?

[trish]

http://grumpyelder.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/04/drone-hunting.jpg (http://www.google.com.au/url?sa=i&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=images&cd=&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0ahUKEwj9lMusl6DTAhVFS7wKHepzD24QjRwIBw&url=http%3A%2F%2Face.mu.nu%2Farchives%2F341806.php&psig=AFQjCNGr3ztRFKxQIEX4Ru9_FJP2vdEImQ&ust=1492129792129129)

[trish]

So when my $30 000 two year old is buzzed by the drone boys and bolts through a fence who do I sue?

It is currently bad enough when the aerial line surveys happen and they notify me with 28 days of INTENT TO SURVEY. Straight to the barrister.






http://uavcoach.com/drone-laws-in-australia/

[aussiebreno]

http://uavcoach.com/drone-laws-in-australia/

You are a hive of information Trish!

[trish]

http://www.harness.org.au/news-article.cfm?news_id=33364

[alphastud]

http://www.harness.org.au/news-article.cfm?news_id=33364

Destiny Warrior stood down - I don't agree with the horse being stood down in these type of cases because:
1. the horse didn't intentionally consume cocaine or any drug.
2. the horse's OWNERS had no control over the management of Destiny Warrior however they are being disadvantaged.

I think that generally:
1. If the horse is determined to be clear of any drug then it should be permitted to race.
2. The MANAGER or TRAINER should be disadvantaged before the OWNER.

Possible exceptions:
Where an OWNER is defrauding iin concert with MANAGERS and TRAINERS.

[Messenger]

http://www.harness.org.au/news-article.cfm?news_id=33364

Was it ever made known that Nathan Turnbull was stood down on April 18?
It was successfully appealed on April 24 but did anyone sight it on the HRNSW Integrity tab under 'Open Inquiries and Appeals Pending' between those two dates?
This trainer had his horses scratched from Bathurst on April 19 but I do not remember any explanation
Why is that? (or did I just miss it?)

[alphastud]

Was it ever made known that Nathan Turnbull was stood down on April 18?
It was successfully appealed on April 24 but did anyone sight it on the HRNSW Integrity tab under 'Open Inquiries and Appeals Pending' between those two dates?
This trainer had his horses scratched from Bathurst on April 19 but I do not remember any explanation
Why is that? (or did I just miss it?)

Kevin, some participants were aware through rumour and asked the same question as to why it wasn't published per the standard procedure in announcing the majority of irregularities.
It probably doesn't make much difference however you might feel a little cheated if your names headline and others aren't. Especially if drugs from other irregularities have criminal connotations.

[Messenger]

Just so long as procedures are consistent

[trish]

Did anyone read anywhere what levels??

[allanjg]

i don`t know if this is the right spot for this post,but any away.....g.pullicino under investergation, AGAIN!!! read stewards wrap hrv.

http://www.harness.org.au/news-article.cfm?news_id=33648

[aussiebreno]

i don`t know if this is the right spot for this post,but any away.....g.pullicino under investergation, AGAIN!!! read stewards wrap hrv.

Why was she back in the industry in the first place.

[Fan of Jate]

Has got a shocking record and should be banned for life.

[allanjg]

jordan might in deep tish too.

[trish]

http://www.harnesslink.com/International/Trainer-suspended-for-mitragynine

[Messenger]

http://www.harnesslink.com/International/Trainer-suspended-for-mitragynine

I hope we don't end up needing a Mitragynine thread. Sigh :(

[trish]

[QUOTE=Messenger;51231]I hope we don't end up needing a Mitragynine thread. Sigh :([/QUO




I think we would have to be a bit naïve to think that it wasn't here already Kevin. And probably other things , so far the cheaters have been one step ahead.


IMO cheaters are destroying the industry. AND personally I don't think its going very good. Do you?

[Messenger]

I was thinking the same about it being here Trish

As far as how we are going, I had a reminder of the gulf between codes last Saturday.
Thanks to relies by marriage, I was a guest in the Committee Room at Flemington
The Room (multi rooms actually) is huge and was packed. I have been to the New Members and the Old Members before. I did not venture out but no doubt these huge rooms/spaces were full too - full of people, most of whom have plenty of spending money.
This is an average meet near on Winter

I know Ray Chaplin has said it many times before (more eloquently) - we need to attract people with 'spending money'

At the same time I cannot help but think that we have what I see as a huge advantage over the gallops - our small tracks not only don't require binocs or a large screen TV to know what is going on but actually have the potential to create a lot more excitement than the gallops where half the action happens half a suburb away

I hope I am not sounding like a snob but the entertainment industry we are in, demands a first class event to attract the big dollars that the gallops and AFL do. Some will say they are finding it harder too of late but it sure didn't look like struggle street.
This does not mean we don't need ordinary folk like our good selves but we need a complete cross-section of society if we are to remain mainstream

We have to create passion for harness racing

ps One of my bros-in-law that was also there on Saturday, he was the one who introduced me to harness racing some 45+ yrs ago, asked me about Melton - he said it was too far for him to go (he lives in an East Melbourne suburb)

(Jumping off soap box now)

[trish]

http://harnessnews.com.au/2017/06/shrubs-to-blame-for-positive-swab/


I think most people would have this reed on their property.

[Messenger]

More problems up Mildura way

http://www.harnesslink.com/Australia/Boris-Devcic---9-month-disqualification

Boris Devcic - 9mths

[trish]

Mark Purdon......http://www.harness.org.au/news-article.cfm?news_id=34046






Jason Proctor....http://www.harness.org.au/news-article.cfm?news_id=31047

[trish]

Above both Mark & Jason were charged with rule 194......ok fair enough. But why did one get a $3000 fine & the other a 6 month suspension ??? Just asking??

[Messenger]

We don't know what the substance was for Mark Purdon, ideally you would like to see releases contain such information, but maybe it was a consideration. Possibly the guilty plea helped?

[Messenger]

Now getting emails about this one.

How many SUBSTANCES were involved?
What was being injected? Charge 1
What was in the atomiser? Charge 2
What did he procure and store? Charge 3

It would be nice to know as people are wondering whether this winner of MILLIONS has been getting an unfair edge

[Showgrounds]

The horse was probably being treated for a "medical condition", so I don't expect an explanation will be forthcoming.

[arlington]

People would be wondering if the treatments were in relation to this http://www.harness.org.au/news-article.cfm?news_id=32685

[Messenger]

Thanks for finding that one Wayne, that is certainly relevant.
It talks about a deep seated corn being identified following the trial on Feb 14
The charges that MP has been fined for were prior to this on Feb 13

[Messenger]

Thanks again to HRNSW Chairman of Stewards Graham Lock for emailing me the following explanation.

Serum is the key word. I have included a definition as well as the one in Graham's snip that I have attached (I hope it copies a bit larger this time)

The clear yellowish fluid obtained upon separating whole blood into its solid and liquid components after it has been allowed to clot. Also called blood serum.

I think many have read 'veterinary product' in the charges and thought serum could mean any liquid

It is great to have a Chairman prepared to clarify things for us

[Fan of Jate]

They must be aware that people are very interested in these reports so why not just put the relevant information in the one article. The article should be then published online regardless of who the trainer or driver is. This removes any perception that trainer A gets an advantage or a lesser penalty than Trainer B.

"you know it makes sense"

[Messenger]

http://www.harness.org.au/news-article.cfm?news_id=34753

Xylometazoline is a spray for nasal congestion

[trish]

https://www.paulickreport.com/news/ray-s-paddock/racing-integritys-newest-threat-human-designer-drugs/

[Fan of Jate]

Interesting to see some of the American posts on this article (about 100 of them). A lot of it sounds similar to Australia and the same frustrations, people giving away the sport, authorities not acting strongly enough, cheats prospering.

[Messenger]

Michael Langdon (Hot Shot Woman) disqualified for 2yrs

http://www.harness.org.au/media-room/news-article/?news_id=35098

[aussiebreno]

Michael Langdon (Hot Shot Woman) disqualified for 2yrs

http://www.harness.org.au/media-room/news-article/?news_id=35098

Clancys Fobwatch 1:52.6 over 2300m in December 2016 winning by 20m at big odds in a small field. Next week goes 1:49.8 for the mile.

Done next to nothing since.

[Messenger]

He did have a PRBT and SWAB for both of those wins Brendan

[aussiebreno]

He did have a PRBT and SWAB for both of those wins Brendan

Generally speaking as part of the testing process how many things can they actually test in one go? Not too mention at one point they didnt know to test for Cobalt and there is still, to my knowledge, no test for Xenon and Argon gas.

I've heard of trainers being worried about the swab but nothing came from it.

[Messenger]

I don't disagree Brendan - is it any wonder that people are leaving the game

[Messenger]

http://www.harnesslink.com/Australia/Weightman-accused-of-peddling-drugs-in-nightclubs

It looks like the constabulary will look after these couple for us

[Messenger]

We have been talking about eliminating repeat offenders from the sport but I notice in last night's Mildura results that David Vozlic is back in a big way.
A search makes for some colourful reading: 2004, 2008, 2012

[gutwagon]

Messenger, personally I think people convicted of certain criminal offenses should never be aloud to be involved in our sport. I'm not just talking about the person you mentioned, I think anyone with drug dealing convictions or convictions for violent crimes has no place in our sport. People should have to wait at least 10 years after completing a prison sentence before even being considered for a licence. It's just not a good look for our sport and many leopards never change their spots.

[Fan of Jate]

We have been talking about eliminating repeat offenders from the sport but I notice in last night's Mildura results that David Vozlic is back in a big way.
A search makes for some colourful reading: 2004, 2008, 2012

Any attachments to go with that Kev?

[gutwagon]

Here's the 2012 incident Pat.
http://www.sunraysiadaily.com.au/story/312650/jail-for-drug-duo-addict-recruited-to-sell-173k-of-amphetamines/

[Messenger]

Any attachments to go with that Kev?

https://www.google.com.au/search?q=David+Vozlic&oq=David+Vozlic&aqs=chrome..69i57.7168j0j8&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8

The 2004 of interest is under 'Tonkin ......' on pg2 of search

[Adaptor]

https://www.google.com.au/search?q=David+Vozlic&oq=David+Vozlic&aqs=chrome..69i57.7168j0j8&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8

The 2004 of interest is under 'Tonkin ......' on pg2 of search

How on earth can this be tolerated? How was the person mentioned able to obtain a licence, let alone use HRA's Trading Post to solicit business?
https://www.harness.org.au/apps/tradingring/post/129804

Wonder if Andrew Vozlic is related? He was disqualified in the Blue Magic saga along with Tonkin and Weightman.

Thanks to Google .

[Showgrounds]

Good work Kev.

We are a benevolent industry when it comes to giving reformed miscreants another chance. And another and another...............

Would love to know on what grounds people are deemed to be of suitable character to be issued with a licence.

The page 2 story jogged my memory as to how Emma Stewart's rise to prominence was so rapid.

[teecee]

Good work Kev.

We are a benevolent industry when it comes to giving reformed miscreants another chance. And another and another...............

Would love to know on what grounds people are deemed to be of suitable character to be issued with a licence.

The page 2 story jogged my memory as to how Emma Stewart's rise to prominence was so rapid.

That sounds like an errand for the man at HRV..

[gutwagon]

Noel, Andrew and David are brothers. Andrew is currently serving one of his many disqualifications. I am disgusted that David was given his licence back.

[Messenger]

We have been talking about eliminating repeat offenders from the sport but I notice in last night's Mildura results that David Vozlic is back in a big way.
A search makes for some colourful reading: 2004, 2008, 2012

Another 2 winners at Mildura tonight but a $1.10 and a $1.50 fav from his stable both defeated

http://www.harness.org.au/racing/fields/race-fields/?mc=ML040118&ms=vic

[Messenger]

Anybody else starting to think that many professionals don't really love horses

http://www.smh.com.au/sport/horseracing/aquanita-charges-a-body-blow-to-whole-industry-20180109-h0ftjm.html

[Showgrounds]

Anybody else starting to think that many professionals don't really love horses

http://www.smh.com.au/sport/horseracing/aquanita-charges-a-body-blow-to-whole-industry-20180109-h0ftjm.html

I am sure they ALL love horses. I am CERTAIN they all love money more than they love horses.

[Messenger]

http://www.harnesslink.com/Australia/Mildura-trots-boss-has-plan-to-tackle-cheating

Scala said cheating was “much more prevalent in the horse and harness racing industries” than people may believe.

That it is a scary statement when one already believes it is prevalent - simply based on the number caught

I would not be surprised if Scala gets a reminder about the Media policy

[arlington]

http://www.harnesslink.com/Australia/Mildura-trots-boss-has-plan-to-tackle-cheating

Scala said cheating was “much more prevalent in the horse and harness racing industries” than people may believe.

That it is a scary statement when one already believes it is prevalent - simply based on the number caught

I would not be surprised if Scala gets a reminder about the Media policy


Courtesy of racing.com, a thoroughbred article relating to "top ups" https://www.racing.com/news/2018-02-23/bi-carb-offenders-to-be-named-shamed

From the article-
It will then be up to breeders and owners to decide if they want to place their horses in stables where bi-carb is potentially being abused.
An interesting concept, one wonders.

And this effective from today,HRA rule amendment
http://www.harness.org.au/media-room/news-article/?news_id=36554
Interpreted as relating to what could be broadly classed as top ups?


Not so much the HRA amendment but having read how much our fire fighting air fleet is worth and now trialing infra red, night flights, am wondering what the drone fleet might need to be worth.

[arlington]

Changes to HRV stake payments effective March 2

After feedback and consultation with industry participants Harness Racing Victoria (HRV) announces the following changes to stake payments effective from the stake payment on March 2, 2018:
1. Stake payments for races with prizemoney of $10,000 and below will no longer have to wait for the release of swab results and will be paid in the next stake payment following the race;
2. The frequency of stake payment has been increased so that a payment will now occur each fortnight opposed to the previous schedule of twice per month (in some previous months it could be up to three weeks between stake payments).
“These changes will result in the vast majority of industry participants receiving stake payments earlier, more frequently and at regular intervals,” HRV General Manager Finance Luke Spano said.


In relation to 1:

Would it be too sceptical to presume the participants consulted were from, and associated with, the "professional" ranks? Again, sceptical to presume non professional participants, whether they be members of the Trainers and Drivers Association or not, weren't consulted?
The "vast majority" being those who have not had a conviction due to a positive swab and/or are not racing on a stay whilst waiting an appeal to VCAT to review a disqualification? Surely couldn't be a blanket policy especially in the case where such a trainer might win/place whilst on a stay with a swab pending for that result as well?

Whilst cash flow is important to pretty well everyone, does this policy change instil confidence or help protect all participants and punters?

[Yabbie]

Numerous groups were consulted, including the trainers and drivers association, owners association, advisory council, breeders etc. Not just the 'professional' ranks. The cash flow situation was causing some difficulties to both smaller and larger participants.

[arlington]

Numerous groups were consulted, including the trainers and drivers association, owners association, advisory council, breeders etc. Not just the 'professional' ranks. The cash flow situation was causing some difficulties to both smaller and larger participants.

I understand the cash flow situation Carol. The increase in frequency of payments alone would help to a fair extent. But the reason/s for releasing payments prior to swabs being cleared? And I do realise only a small number of swabs return positives. So I ask again, is this a blanket policy change (vast majority?) and does it help instil confidence or help protect all participants and punters?

In regards to consultation, perhaps another case of not all kindred bodies communicating well with their members.

[David Martin]

Hi Wayne,


The 'vast majority' only refers to the fact that payments are released for races $10k and below, with winners of races with prizemoney above this level still required to await swab results. This brings HRV more or less in line with a number of other states and racing codes in Victoria. Prior to making this change, HRV consulted with the organisations that Carol listed, and took feedback from quite a number of participants/owners, etc. via the Australia wide Harness Industry Facebook Group.


This move will help a large number of participants to better manage their cash-flows without putting at risk the integrity of the sport. Punters confidence should be increased in the knowledge that HRV have doubled post-race swabs to detect cases where people are not doing the right thing.


Cheers, David

[arlington]

Hi Wayne,


The 'vast majority' only refers to the fact that payments are released for races $10k and below, with winners of races with prizemoney above this level still required to await swab results. This brings HRV more or less in line with a number of other states and racing codes in Victoria. Prior to making this change, HRV consulted with the organisations that Carol listed, and took feedback from quite a number of participants/owners, etc. via the Australia wide Harness Industry Facebook Group.


This move will help a large number of participants to better manage their cash-flows without putting at risk the integrity of the sport. Punters confidence should be increased in the knowledge that HRV have doubled post-race swabs to detect cases where people are not doing the right thing.


Cheers, David

Hi David,

Thanks for replying. I did translate 'vast majority' as being the maths but the starry eyed part of me had to ask the question.

In regards to consultation, not wanting to go tit for tat but we do have the 'Harness Racer' publication and per the media release, HRV has email addresses for 95 per cent of participants. We do receive bulk emails on some matters.

Regards,

Wayne

[Danno]

Caffiene??

probably need a more "professional" barrister, or is that barista?

http://www.harnesslink.com/International/Dunn-stable-accepts-charges

how many times do they need to go before the rest of us don't have to put up with it anymore????...........SURELY there has to be a point of no return somewhere.

[Messenger]

Justice is slow in NZ Dan - the meeting was 9 months ago and he has already had 3 strikes.
Some quick justice and potentially there were 55 wins on offer for others

[Richard prior]

3 strikes, 4 charges over 1 weekend 9 months ago, 55 wins this season while these charges have been hanging over the stables head, It’s going to be an interesting outcome, I think a very long spell on the sidelines is in order if found guilty

[KTQ]

Mmhm

https://twitter.com/GarrickRKnight/status/976969536925704192?s=19

[Messenger]

I was emailed this interesting link by one of our readers
Continuing developments have to be making it harder for the cheats (provided our industry is keeping up with advances)

https://uwaterloo.ca/news/news/drug-testing-athletes-now-easier

[aussiebreno]

Anybody keeping an eye on the Australia cricket saga?

We've got a pretty well defined drug classification list ranging from minor offences for therapeutic use (eg Bute) to the major stuff (eg bicarb) and the worst stuff (eg EPO). I think most people would agree other offences like whipping the horse too much or placing bets on your own horse would be deemed minor, but team driving, pulling one up, backing the opposition would be major.

On what scale does the Steve Smith offence rate in harness racing terms? Its not match fixing or performance enhancing drugs so its not at the high end of offences. Something that Bancroft/Smith have done would maybe be comparable to treating your horse with a therapeutic drug too close to race day?

Admittedly our media and fan base is on a much smaller scale to the Australian cricket side, but even proportionally speaking the public lynching of Smith is way, way worse than any of our guilty trainers cop. It really shows societies standards in sport and why our game needs to enforce tougher rules on cheats if we wish to secure more fans.

[Messenger]

Good point Brendan.
I totally agree, lately I have felt particularly disillusioned as every time I look at the results it seems to me that too many are known offenders (past)

[Messenger]

9mths for Joe Pace

http://www.harnesslink.com/Australia/Mr-Joseph-Pace-Inquiry-Concluded

"The results of scientific analysis conducted on the product were also presented to the inquiry."

I wonder what the scientific analysis revealed

[arlington]

9mths for Joe Pace

http://www.harnesslink.com/Australia/Mr-Joseph-Pace-Inquiry-Concluded

"The results of scientific analysis conducted on the product were also presented to the inquiry."

I wonder what the scientific analysis revealed


A peptide?

[arlington]

Anybody keeping an eye on the Australia cricket saga?

We've got a pretty well defined drug classification list ranging from minor offences for therapeutic use (eg Bute) to the major stuff (eg bicarb) and the worst stuff (eg EPO). I think most people would agree other offences like whipping the horse too much or placing bets on your own horse would be deemed minor, but team driving, pulling one up, backing the opposition would be major.

On what scale does the Steve Smith offence rate in harness racing terms? Its not match fixing or performance enhancing drugs so its not at the high end of offences. Something that Bancroft/Smith have done would maybe be comparable to treating your horse with a therapeutic drug too close to race day?

Admittedly our media and fan base is on a much smaller scale to the Australian cricket side, but even proportionally speaking the public lynching of Smith is way, way worse than any of our guilty trainers cop. It really shows societies standards in sport and why our game needs to enforce tougher rules on cheats if we wish to secure more fans.

No question about it Breno.

What fan likes to be dudded out. I think the whole world is hoping Usain Bolt is genuinely what he is and what he was.

[gutwagon]

I rate the Smith/Warner offense equal to a bicarb first offense. They didn't even win the match. The ICC rates it a 1 match offense as they know every team is doing it. This is the major issue that is being overlooked . I'm not saying that is an excuse for doing it. Reverse swing is only achieved by tampering with the ball, it didn't exist back in the Lillee and Thomo days. A bit strange that 2 of the best bowlers of all time couldn't make the ball reverse !

HRV should note that the big names have been caught cheating and will be made examples of with big suspensions from the authorities ! That's how you enforce integrity !

[Messenger]

I would have to rate it higher than that Rick. They were tampering with equipment in an attempt to win so I would have to say it would be equal to having a battery in your whip or something similar

[gutwagon]

Bicarb is tampering with a horse in an attempt to win.
Could be equal to carts being too wide and short ! Or arsenic fence posts ;)

[Richard prior]

Poms were caught doing it in India years ago, Vaseline and gauze, It’s quite comical watching Bancroft doing it, Real Z grade stuff, I played cricket for quite a few years as did Wayne(Arlington) Rick is absolutely right, Thomson and Lillee couldn’t get the ball to reverse nor the Mighty West Indian bowlers, The Pakistani’s were masters for getting the ball to reverse swing, There were many ways to get a ball to retain the shine, Zinc cream was one but reverse swing consists of 1 side of the ball being scuffed up and Bancroft was speeding up the process and pretty stupid to be involved, He’ll be lucky to get another Cap, Smith and Warner(Big Guns) will both cop a hefty penalty, Politicans and Media are all over it so I’m expecting that the fines and penalty’s will be fitting, As far as comparing it, I would say that team driving or pulling a horse would compare.

[gutwagon]

Almost every test match I watch these days you will see the umpires warning the players to stop deliberately throwing the ball back to the keeper on the bounce. This is done to rough the ball up or to cover up the scratches they are deliberately putting on the ball with something rough. I think it's time that they should replace the ball as soon as it starts to reverse. As you only achieve this via ball tampering.
Also strange how the ICC think it's a 1 match crime but Cricket Aus think it's a 1 year crime. If it was harness racing they would appeal and only do the 1 match or less ! Wonder If Smith will turn up on Ch 9 or Fox as a commentator during his break. He still needs to make a living. And as for ruining the sport I'm more interested in the next test much more than I was in the first 3 !

[teecee]

3 strikes, 4 charges over 1 weekend 9 months ago, 55 wins this season while these charges have been hanging over the stables head, It’s going to be an interesting outcome, I think a very long spell on the sidelines is in order if found guilty

http://www.jca.org.nz/non-race-day-hearings/non-raceday-inquiry-riu-v-r-j-dunn-and-j-r-dunn-written-decision-dated-28-march-2018-chair-mr-t-utikere

[Richard prior]

Interesting, Thanks Tony

[Messenger]

http://www.jca.org.nz/non-race-day-hearings/non-raceday-inquiry-riu-v-r-j-dunn-and-j-r-dunn-written-decision-dated-28-march-2018-chair-mr-t-utikere

I am not saying that they did but I do wonder how

"The RIU do acknowledge that neither of the respondents intentionally administered Caffeine to the horses in order to gain any competitive advantage."

How do they know this?

[Danno]

http://www.jca.org.nz/non-race-day-hearings/non-raceday-inquiry-riu-v-r-j-dunn-and-j-r-dunn-written-decision-dated-28-march-2018-chair-mr-t-utikere

Everyone might as well just pack up now, that is laughable on several fronts, not the least of which the substance classification which has had significant bearing on the penalty.......quick question Teecee does NZ have a current Prime Minister by the name of Dunn?? just asking 'cos our PM is Turnbull.

[teecee]

I get where you are coming from. Anybody from any background reading this must surely wonder..
IMO if previous history is to be a mitigating factor then previous convictions must be an aggravating factor no matter the timeline.
IMO this is not one of RIU proudest moments. Their penalty recommendation (which the committee virtually tore up after demanding where they (RIU) were coming from has already drawn flak with their investigators in this matter advised to not to use this case in their CV's. I do note the JCA not following the RIU down the same path re recommendations. I just wish they were more consistent with the Dalgety case. Being consistent is all.
Having full and comprehensive decisions published like this does give us an insight into this unsavoury aspect of our industry.
I look forward to Australia inquiries being similarly comprehensively published as more than a one paragraph media release. That is until they follow NZ with an independent judiciary.!!!!! That can't happen of course until Australia has a bill of rights for all its citizens.

Dan I get your point about PMs. you are not the only one "just wondering / asking".

[Adaptor]

Not only :
It is alleged that Mr Batsakis presented ‘Our Fabiolla’ to race at Cranbourne on 24 October 2017 when not free of the prohibited substances capsaicin and dihydrocapsaicin.

But also:
It is alleged that Mr Spiteri presented ‘Blissfull Stride’ to race at Ballarat on 16 June 2017 when not free of the prohibited substance capsaicin.

Dihydrocapsaicin is a capsaicinoid and analog and congener of capsaicin in chili peppers (Capsicum). Like capsaicin, it is an irritant.[1] Dihydrocapsaicin accounts for about 22% of the total capsaicinoid mixture and has nearly, but not quite, the same pungency as capsaicin. Pure dihydrocapsaicin is a lipophilic colorless odorless crystalline to waxy compound. It is soluble in dimethyl sulfoxide and 100% ethanol.

Capsaicin also has a reputation for relieving certain kinds of pain, and is a widely used ingredient in over-the-counter topical creams and ointments for arthritis.

[KTQ]

Not only :
It is alleged that Mr Batsakis presented ‘Our Fabiolla’ to race at Cranbourne on 24 October 2017 when not free of the prohibited substances capsaicin and dihydrocapsaicin.

But also:
It is alleged that Mr Spiteri presented ‘Blissfull Stride’ to race at Ballarat on 16 June 2017 when not free of the prohibited substance capsaicin.

Dihydrocapsaicin is a capsaicinoid and analog and congener of capsaicin in chili peppers (Capsicum). Like capsaicin, it is an irritant.[1] Dihydrocapsaicin accounts for about 22% of the total capsaicinoid mixture and has nearly, but not quite, the same pungency as capsaicin. Pure dihydrocapsaicin is a lipophilic colorless odorless crystalline to waxy compound. It is soluble in dimethyl sulfoxide and 100% ethanol.

Capsaicin also has a reputation for relieving certain kinds of pain, and is a widely used ingredient in over-the-counter topical creams and ointments for arthritis.

It's also included in anti-chew formulas - if horses are getting away with arsenic from chewing fence posts, perhaps trainers should be getting away with spraying those same fence posts with capsaicin liquid to stop them chewing the fence posts ;)

[Showgrounds]

I think, Katie, you have just highlighted to me the absurdity of harness racing and my unwillingness to invest another single dollar in it after forty-five years of investing too much.

You have probably nailed the cause of the positive swabs. There is a substantiated rumour the head of of a swab analytical service once boasted he could trace a teaspoon of sugar in a swimming pool. Had you a horse that could ingest a swimming pool full of water, I'd suggest you would be in trouble because some genius would tell us sugar is a performance enhancer. After all, it supposed to give you an energy hit!

There are just too many people earning a living behind the scenes in our sport these days. Frankly, I hate parasites.

[Messenger]

I think, Katie, you have just highlighted to me the absurdity of harness racing and my unwillingness to invest another single dollar in it after forty-five years of investing too much.

You have probably nailed the cause of the positive swabs. There is a substantiated rumour the head of of a swab analytical service once boasted he could trace a teaspoon of sugar in a swimming pool. Had you a horse that could ingest a swimming pool full of water, I'd suggest you would be in trouble because some genius would tell us sugar is a performance enhancer. After all, it supposed to give you an energy hit!

There are just too many people earning a living behind the scenes in our sport these days. Frankly, I hate parasites.

Forget this example but do you seriously think drug testers are the parasites and integrity is not an issue Trevor?

[Showgrounds]

Not saying the drug testers; just look at the industry as a whole. The number of people EMPLOYED in the industry, as opposed to those that PARTICIPATE, is becoming disproportionate. Check HRV's org structure - more "generals" than they had on the Western Front!

As for swabs, and basing my assessment on Katie's "anti-chew" post, you would really start to wonder why you would get out of bed to work a horse if you were notified of a "positive" under those circumstances. No doubt the trainers will be given a fair hearing (if "fair', by meaning means you are automatically guilty by presenting a horse to race that was not "drug-free").

Somewhere along the way the custodians of harness racing, while always seeking more participants, have construed any active constituent in any number of common, everyday products as drugs. Or, more correctly, "prohibited substances". Of course, trainers lacking in chemical and animal health product knowledge, will always be prone to suffering "uh-oh" moments. Along the way, analysts, legal eagles and many others will gain financially as people try to protect their sullied reputations.

I've always found it strange that the USTA allows horses to race on Lasix, which is administered in the knowledge of everybody and in a controlled manner. In Australia, however, are we so unenlightened to believe horses only bleed when blood is seen in its nostrils? Or a horse which in its early career was raced well but lost all form is deemed not to try anymore? More likely, it has never been seen with blood in its nostrils (shame about the rest of its body!). Some time back we got on our pedestals and shouted we are a "substance free" form of racing. What a shame we overlooked animal health and welfare while slapping ourselves on the back. So, here we are today with what could appear to be a couple of poor saps trying to stop there horses from chewing a post or something else.

Of course, I base this purely on Katie's comment which is speculative at best. Noel's info on the "substance" capsaicin "also has a reputation for relieving certain kinds of pain, and is a widely used ingredient in over-the-counter topical creams and ointments for arthritis" appears to be shaky evidence. The words "has a reputation" trouble me - no proof. I know chilli to be pretty good at raising your metabolism - does that make it a performance enhancer? Perhaps, but scientifically proven? I advise people who complain about tom-cats visiting there place to sprinkle a little cayenne pepper where they do their business because cats always sniff where they have been. They soon learn to keep away, just as the horse will learn not to chew the post.

Yes, integrity is all about bringing drug cheats and race riggers to account. There is no integrity in dragging down the poor nongs who have used a product containing a "substance" unwittingly if not entirely innocently. And I have checked; there is not a single law in Victoria (and I would think think all other states) that lists an offence for stupidity!

We need to concentrate on cleaning out the cheats and give a bit more latitude to those deemed to have made genuine mistakes. And I say this as a person still actively working in compliance and enforcement. Cheats out, animal health and welfare in.

And, for the life of me, I fail to see how a lot of people going out of their way to demonstrate how much smarter they are than a simple, unsuspecting horse trainer can assist our sport to grow. In reality, it sucks the life-blood out of the game at the roots.

A parasitic effect, perhaps?

[KTQ]

To be honest I was being a little facetious. The capsicum spray has a warning on the side not to use for racing horses :) for some reason though, you can't get away with being swabbed positive for that but you can for arsenic. Should trainers now not need to take responsibility to prevent horses chewing posts with plastic wrapping or an equally preventative measure? It's been well documented and it's about time it stopped being an excuse

[Danno]

Adding a tiny bit to Katie's post, there were a number of trainers done for "Capsaicin" around here a few years ago and its "folklore" now that they were all being supplied drenches by the one person, not that they all had rabid fence chewers in their yards!!

That said, in many respects I agree with some of Trevor's sentiments, we DO want integrity but we do want REAL integrity not unbalanced impositions on participants.


cheers,

Dan

[Showgrounds]

Would never have guessed Katie! But you still nailed the hypothetical problem. On of harness racing's ten (or ten thousand) commandments is thou shalt not administer arsenic. I believe the harness racing Moses that presented that tablet is at least four decades behind the times. Robacyl has been outlawed fr decades and the smarties have moved on from injectable arsenic.

Should fence posts be wrapped in plastic? Who knows, but there will be some egotistical chemical analyst out there who will dedicate their life to finding a "band substance" in the plastic. And we continue to play the circle game.

We continue to use a sledge hammer to drive a 2 inch nail.

[Messenger]

I received a suggestion that we should be concentrating on pre-race swabbing. What with having to wait 3hrs post race to detect a bicarb positive
The suggestion was that all horses could be swabbed pre and then send off the winners and big improvers for testing
If this task was too onerous you could just randomly do the entire field for half the races

[Dot]

Testing for elevated TCO2 as a result of milkshaking is best done as close to racetime as possible pre race and on a delay post race to allow the levels to rise again as a result of the administered alkalising agents. Testing all runners pre race only unless you have enough collectors would mean some horses could be tested before TCO2 levels had risen above the threshold.

For testing for other substances more pre race urine swabs could be collected and those choosen for testing could be determined post race. Don't see why testing should be limited to winners and big improvers, unexpectedly poor performances may warrant testing moreso then an expected winner. In the interests of animal welfare and integrity random testing should also occur amogst also rans to minimise the likelihood of horses on medication participating with connections confident that they won't be tested if they don't win.

But the biggest threat with regard to prohibited substances, as in human athletes these days, are substances administered during the course of training and eliminated well before raceday but from which the horse still has effects that are beneficial on raceday. Pre or post raceday testing won't detect these, indeed detection is not easy, but needs strategic unexpected out of competition testing.

[Messenger]

"needs strategic unexpected out of competition testing."

Would it be seen as victimization if leading stables were unexpectedly told that they were going to have stewards their 16/7 ie 2 stewards sharing day duties for a whole week?
I hear praise for Shayne Cramp's piece in 'Integrity Matters' but imagine how great the damage of his actions would have been if he was leading Metro trainer

I see HRV have spent more money on drone technology - maybe that is there answer

[Dot]

Well I wouldn't think having stewards present for surveillance for 16 out of 24 hours for 7 days is a strategy that integrity officials would employ. But of course the strategies and techniques used and the stables choosen for additional scrutiny would be entirely at the discretion of integrity officials.

Surely all participants, leading or not, have equal interest in the provision of a level playing field. Racing doesn't exist in a bubble and most, if not all, participants should be aware that athletes competing at the highest levels in other sporting pursuits are subject to greater scrutiny then those competing at a lower levels. Far from being seen as "victimisation" if a leading stable is targeted for additional scrutiny surely it would be seen as an expected course of action from integrity officials and an acceptable price to pay for success in racing at an elite level, as it is in other sports.

And of course there is the old adage, if your doing nothing wrong then you have nothing to fear.