Should HRV Pay to get Harness on Free-to-air TV like Netball has done?

[Messenger]

Should HRV (possibly in partnership with other states) pay/produce their own coverage and entice a free-to-air channel to take it on?
Netball are going to do it:

http://www.theage.com.au/sport/netball/netball-pays-channel-ten-to-televise-games-in-groundbreaking-deal-20150226-13q5aj.html

It might only be one major evening a week but with enough advertising it may attract viewers and increase turnover

It Ch10's One was reverting to being a Sport Channel it would be OK otherwise I might prefer 7TWO

Thoughts?

[aussiebreno]

Not a bad idea at all, I'd be looking at getting involved with Netflix first/as well. As an aside, some of those Aust V NZ netball games in recent years on ABC/SBS have seen some great battles. I reckon I sat down two Sundays in a row and watched games decided by a point both times circa 2011. Helps when Renae Hallinan is playing, she is a pleasure to watch and is a pretty good netballer as well. Here is a copy of email I sent to HRNSW Executive email in November. Reid Sanders was the one who replied and he basically said HRNSW in progress of hiring Media Manager (is the Greg Hayes position?) and they would look at that type of stuff. He did CC Nancy Ogrady and John Dumesny in on the email so that was something.





I choose to send this to HRNSW as the controlling body in NSW is by far the most progressive board in Australia.

The Harness Media Centre and the use of twitter are some great examples to name but a few of HRNSW use of social media.

I believe there is potential for the use of social media to not only engage current participants, but to get a new audience.

One such platform to do this through could well be Netflix. My very limited knowledge of Netflix is users pay a small fee and garner unlimited access to TV Shows and Movies. Currently, Netflix is not available in Australia, but plans are in place for this to be established next March.

Stumbling blocks that immediately spring to mind are whether Netflix would want our content (sport let alone racing does not feature on Netflix currently. Perhaps they want it strictly entertainment). I am also unsure how it would affect current contracts with Sky Racing etc.

However, I believe the vast majority of advertising (including social media) is only targeted at our sports current audience. We obviously need to attract a new audience as well. It is only people who are already interested in the sport liking Facebook pages, following tweets, watching replays on Trots TV, flicking to the middle of the paper to read the form guide etc. People who are on Netflix are not necessarily interested in harness racing but if we can get in early we can reach millions of young Australians, that is millions of potential harness racing enthusiasts.

There is so much potential with going on Netflix, and it would not require to much extra work on behalf of racing. We are already producing interviews, race replays etc it would just be on a different format. Perhaps we could look into live racing as well - our own station, wouldn't that be a sight to behold. With the advent of Netflix many young Americans no longer own a TV and watch stuff on computers/laptops etc. The advent of Netflix could see this occur in Australia, do we want our medium of Sky Channel pretty much ruled null and void for younger generations - our future audience. There is also the issue of Netflix subscribers cancelling Foxtel subscriptions due to their favourite Foxtel programs being on demand on Netflix . Things at Foxtel could get pretty hard in years to come and as a by product of that our sport and Sky Racing could suffer. We need to get ahead of the game. We need to explore Netflix now.

[arlington]

Without question, if we could get a similar deal. Also relevant, I think, do we lack female presence in our media? Are we the only racing code who doesn't seem to think it's a good idea. And I'm not talking about looks or age. I know NSW has a couple of ladies on their media site and we had little snippets during the Melbourne carnival just recently but someone/s more permanent.

[arlington]

Not a bad idea at all, but I'd be looking at getting involved with Netflix first. As an aside, some of those Aust V NZ netball games in recent years on ABC/SBS have seen some great battles. I reckon I sat down two Sundays in a row and watched games decided by a point both times circa 2011. Helps when Renae Hallinan is playing, she is a pleasure to watch and is a pretty good netballer as well. Here is a copy of email I sent to HRNSW Executive email in November. Reid Sanders was the one who replied and he basically said HRNSW in progress of hiring Media Manager (is the Greg Hayes position?) and they would look at that type of stuff. He did CC Nancy Ogrady and John Dumesny in on the email so that was something.





I choose to send this to HRNSW as the controlling body in NSW is by far the most progressive board in Australia.

The Harness Media Centre and the use of twitter are some great examples to name but a few of HRNSW use of social media.

I believe there is potential for the use of social media to not only engage current participants, but to get a new audience.

One such platform to do this through could well be Netflix. My very limited knowledge of Netflix is users pay a small fee and garner unlimited access to TV Shows and Movies. Currently, Netflix is not available in Australia, but plans are in place for this to be established next March.

Stumbling blocks that immediately spring to mind are whether Netflix would want our content (sport let alone racing does not feature on Netflix currently. Perhaps they want it strictly entertainment). I am also unsure how it would affect current contracts with Sky Racing etc.

However, I believe the vast majority of advertising (including social media) is only targeted at our sports current audience. We obviously need to attract a new audience as well. It is only people who are already interested in the sport liking Facebook pages, following tweets, watching replays on Trots TV, flicking to the middle of the paper to read the form guide etc. People who are on Netflix are not necessarily interested in harness racing but if we can get in early we can reach millions of young Australians, that is millions of potential harness racing enthusiasts.

There is so much potential with going on Netflix, and it would not require to much extra work on behalf of racing. We are already producing interviews, race replays etc it would just be on a different format. Perhaps we could look into live racing as well - our own station, wouldn't that be a sight to behold. With the advent of Netflix many young Americans no longer own a TV and watch stuff on computers/laptops etc. The advent of Netflix could see this occur in Australia, do we want our medium of Sky Channel pretty much ruled null and void for younger generations - our future audience. There is also the issue of Netflix subscribers cancelling Foxtel subscriptions due to their favourite Foxtel programs being on demand on Netflix . Things at Foxtel could get pretty hard in years to come and as a by product of that our sport and Sky Racing could suffer. We need to get ahead of the game. We need to explore Netflix now.


Great initiative and thought Breno. Well done. Totally agree Sky on Foxtel would/is rarely be even flicked past by the younger generation.

[Amlin]

Issue might be that contracts are locked in with Sky but obviously that can be altered as Nine are showing the Inter this Sunday

[The Escape Club]

Ah, just like the good old days of The Penthouse Club.

[Amlin]

Ah, just like the good old days of The Penthouse Club.



This has been posted on here before I think but will bring back some memories for you Robert


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qJYJX5DlmXg

[Messenger]

After comparing the 9/Win coverage with the sardine act at Sky, it is a NO BRAINER - we need a regular spot on a free to air Channel JUST TO BE RELEVANT - there is no future for us if Sky's coverage is all we can get for big meets

[brent_L]

After comparing the 9/Win coverage with the sardine act at Sky, it is a NO BRAINER - we need a regular spot on a free to air Channel JUST TO BE RELEVANT - there is no future for us if Sky's coverage is all we can get for big meets
Who will watch? Sure, there will be the harness fan like yourself Kev + the punter who bets only on trots like myself (also a fan without the punt I should mention) but I don't think that warrants a telecast on free to air, does it? Run of the mill punters wouldn't switch over cause they'd miss getting on the next at Bullamakanka and unfortunately those guys rule the roost. I love the idea and would have loved to have seen something like what 9 did (hats off to them by the way, I thought they did a good job) for the whole day but I just can't see it being feasible on non feature days/nights. Unfortunately imo we will simply be left with the sort of tripe we are being served up today.

[brent_L]

Wow, it just got worse. The Bohemia flicked to Sky2 with no warning whatsoever where u could watch half a screen for the first 60 seconds of the race while a dog race was being broadcast. F*** ME!!

[brent_L]

That now makes it back to back G1s flicked to sky2 both of which showed the first half of the race in a split screen with zero audio. The Bathurst gallops race that was scheduled to follow on 1 went a good 30 seconds after the G1 trot was completed. The prizemoney of the two Menangle races were 154k compared to that of a combined 41k of the Bathurst races. I'm about to launch a projectile thru my very expensive TV!!

[Amlin]

The controlling bodies obviously cannot see any issue with it as they keep signing watertight contracts with Sky.

It was a Sky contract renewal that forced the end of 31. Even a weekly highlights show on FTA TV would be better than nothing.

The industry does control who films the events after all and I imagine owns the footage too and negotiates a contract for Sky to show it.

Considering the industry is allowed to put replays on its site after each event it should be allowed to package these through a production company for commercial TV.

[Messenger]

Who will watch? Sure, there will be the harness fan like yourself Kev + the punter who bets only on trots like myself (also a fan without the punt I should mention) but I don't think that warrants a telecast on free to air, does it? Run of the mill punters wouldn't switch over cause they'd miss getting on the next at Bullamakanka and unfortunately those guys rule the roost. I love the idea and would have loved to have seen something like what 9 did (hats off to them by the way, I thought they did a good job) for the whole day but I just can't see it being feasible on non feature days/nights. Unfortunately imo we will simply be left with the sort of tripe we are being served up today.

It can be on both Brent (like the way the gallops use 7TWO), it would be for those that you said but if marketed right it would also be about introducing new people to the sport, people who do not have Sky - we need to broaden our appeal.

ps I want one of you New South Welshmen to get feedback from HRNSW on this treatment by Sky, they would have all been on track so they may not even be aware of the massacre that was occurring.

[Messenger]

It was good to get an email reply from HRV's marketing general manager Brett Boyd on this topic.
The opening of his reply is a fairly good summary of HRV's position:

Nobody can deny the added exposure and the potential new customers that FTA coverage can generate is a positive for any sport.
However the costs for such an undertaking do not come cheap. In the current environment we are not is a position to make this investment, but that is not to say it won’t continually be something considered.
We of course recognise we need to grow the sport and attract new customers and we are making steps towards this, but it needs to be done gradually, working with the funds we have at our disposal and being mindful of the other obligations we have such as prize money increases, track and venue upgrades and integrity.


I believe we simply have to prioritize a FTA presence as without it we are falling behind. To do this I believe that we need to once again become owners of at least one night slot which 'harness owns'. A night that harness owns on Sky which the gallops would not consider venturing into. This would also be the night you would double up on with a few weeks on free to air at carnival time. If we do not take ownership of one very soon, the gallops will own every night slot too and we will be fairly irrelevant if not doomed.

PS It seems to me that communication at HRV is improving

[Messenger]

As Netball's action prompted this thread, I think this story from The Age today is relevant

http://www.theage.com.au/sport/netball/netballs-future-depends-on-more-than-the-scores-on-the-board-20150527-ghasbk.html

In the paper the story had the title 'A Setback In The Ratings War'

Ratings in 2015 aren't quite as robust as match attendances, and that is where the league and its broadcasters must concentrate their creative efforts. While free-to-air ratings are up from 2014, Foxtel ratings are down on 2014.

A couple more quotes that would have to be applied to harness if we were to secure some coverage:

... the survival of the ANZ Championship beyond the current broadcast deal of 2016 is dependant on a television deal that at the very least pays its way, league bosses have to address this slide as a matter of priority.


A real key to driving the broadcast appeal of the sport is finding some clear air for matches to be played in. With the monoliths of AFL and NRL monopolising key broadcast windows, netball must think strategically about its schedule, and play its games outside those times.

As well as the AFL and NRL we probably need to avoid the gallops

I should point out that the story is not all doom and gloom as the story states that their match attendances are up and they did have an extraordinary clash with the cricket world cup by starting their season early this year

[Amlin]

Channel 7 will telecast the WA Inters for the next three years - nationally I would expect

[Messenger]

I made a whole thread about that Kyle ;)

(see 200 days to Inter thread)

[barney]

Who will watch? Sure, there will be the harness fan like yourself Kev + the punter who bets only on trots like myself (also a fan without the punt I should mention) but I don't think that warrants a telecast on free to air, does it? Run of the mill punters wouldn't switch over cause they'd miss getting on the next at Bullamakanka and unfortunately those guys rule the roost. I love the idea and would have loved to have seen something like what 9 did (hats off to them by the way, I thought they did a good job) for the whole day but I just can't see it being feasible on non feature days/nights. Unfortunately imo we will simply be left with the sort of tripe we are being served up today.

What you said is right and free to air tele would be more time concious and as has been said on this forum before Harness is its own biggest enemy how hard is it to start a race on time 99% of the time.I concede sometimes gear breaks at last minute but how often do you see with 60seconds to go horses having last minute adjustments.These adjustments should be done at least 3 minutes before advertised starting time.Gallops are usuly on time same as greyhounds.

[Messenger]

Who will watch? Sure, there will be the harness fan like yourself Kev + the punter who bets only on trots like myself (also a fan without the punt I should mention) but I don't think that warrants a telecast on free to air, does it? Run of the mill punters wouldn't switch over cause they'd miss getting on the next at Bullamakanka and unfortunately those guys rule the roost. I love the idea and would have loved to have seen something like what 9 did (hats off to them by the way, I thought they did a good job) for the whole day but I just can't see it being feasible on non feature days/nights. Unfortunately imo we will simply be left with the sort of tripe we are being served up today.

It would appear that Racing Victoria are prepared to take this risk, favouring Ch7. Maybe they read in The Age this week that 88.4% of video viewing is still TV not phones, tablets, PCs

[squaregaiter]

I think the situation is far graver than how do we view the races short term, as mentioned in another thread it is time for the industry/s to come together and inform the State Govenement that a industry that it worth $billions to our State, together with the employment of tens of thousands of people, and giving millions $ to State in taxes in all forms, is being placed in jeopardy by a corporate that has over time eroded Victoria of its fair share of almost everything related to the industries and what are they going to do about it or at the very least what are they prepared to do about it. Could they entice DISH to come to Australia as just one example? It seems because of Sky we keep going down these tracks year after year.
In the big picture Pay TV as it is now it will lose much of its strength ( unless they do makeovers) as within a couple of years SMART TV will be in all our homes and you will not need Free to Air or Pay TV to watch “TV” as long as you have the internet in one form or another be it ADSL or Digital- so as an example you will be able to watch the trials live that are already broadcast from Melton on the TV ( as you can now do if you have a SMART TV) however what will be needed in such cases is Programming/ Content and that is vital to the entire big picture. As already mentioned, we need to introduce personalities that are not ego or home town driven when commentating but REAL personality’s that people want to talk about during the week not just on race night, when we lost Bill Collins in particular, but you must include Bert Bryant and very few other race callers, from a harness point of view, plus several of the polies that were influential in their support of our sport we lost big time, just as NSW will do when they lose John Tapp who has been the catalyst of cross media and harness work for the last decade or so.
There are NO replacements and this must be as much a part of the big picture as anything.
Short term we need oarsman not dog paddlers that will search current contracts if they have now been broken and is there is a case of Restraint of Trade just for starters.

[Messenger]

I totally agree about needing personalities Bruce. I know I am getting old but the little I hear of our young hosts, I sometimes think they are a little too excited or maybe just trying too hard - it is a little like race calling in that too much hype can be a bad thing, nowadays although a betting shop employee, I think Adam Hamilton gets it just right.

[Amlin]

The smooth velvety voice is now something of a previous generation "on air" these days it seems Kev! Some announcers you hear just murder the English language.


Not much independence in the trots media - surprising when you consider the amount of activity on the internet with blogs/websites etc, you would think there would be people punching out stories everywhere! Although considering how much of a closed shop the racing media seems, how long do you keep writing stories for nil pay?


I do think social media is the way forward - as Bruce said on a "smart" TV, providing the internet speed is suffice, you could watch the action rather than just through a traditional set.


I believe that an internet arm should be written into future media rights contracts regarding our vision - meaning that while a TV channel such as SKY can have the rights to broadcast the product, the industry should also be able to establish an online media centre to stream races with increased cover such as interviews/parade yard footage etc. It is our footage after all!


Apparently something like this was to occur for MM night but strangely was shut down on race morning.


And once we get this in place, let's give some new, fresh young talent a go for goodness sake!!

[Messenger]

I may have been harsh on the talent we have now, maybe they just get too excited on the really big nights. They sound far more measured and listenable tonight :)

[squaregaiter]

I totally agree about needing personalities Bruce. I know I am getting old but the little I hear of our young hosts, I sometimes think they are a little too excited or maybe just trying too hard - it is a little like race calling in that too much hype can be a bad thing, nowadays although a betting shop employee, I think Adam Hamilton gets it just right.

I am also a AH fan, always clean and professional and really does know his game, unfortunately he left the Sun and moved on and for the life of me I cant understand why at HRV someone didn't say it is better where he is in the printed media for harness than allowing him to move on and just like footballers maybe should have "sponsored" him at least he was well entrenched and gave space and possibly fought for space for our sport and the same goes for Cody, I understand he came from a rural paper down Warnambool way ???? and he would have found space with stories that possibly have dried up now.
To use a famous saying this week by "hook or by crook" we need cross media personalities to help the sport. Foot traffic grows business and in our case we need them who are the presenters, writers & readers in all media including these days the internet via websites/blogs & Facebook and so forth

[Messenger]

It would seem that there will not be any blackout of Vic gallops
From The Age today (sorry I cannot find a link)

The battle for the Victorian racing television rights took another dramatic turn on Saturday with the Seven Network now able to cover live racing from Tuesday.
It is understood that once Racing Victoria and the shareholders, which include the principal clubs of Melbourne, give a direction, Seven can start broadcasting.
Last week, Tabcorp said it would cease covering Victorian racing after Racing Victoria recommended to the principal clubs they should accept the offer from the Seven Network ahead of Tabcorp.
It is understood Tabcorp was deeply annoyed at RV’s recommendation and talks broke down after the announcement.
Racing authorities would not comment but Fairfax Media believes one of Seven’s free-to air networks will begin telecasts from Tuesday.
The vision rights have been a contentious point for the past six months.
Tabcorp offered $300 million for the next 10 years to obtain the domestic and international rights.
Last year NSW and Victoria ended their ownership of the disastrous TVN network.
It was a huge embarrassment for racing in Australia as it accumulated hundreds of millions of dollars in losses.

'Seven to cover races' by Patrick Bartley, Sunday Age June 14, 2015

[squaregaiter]

"It is understood Tabcorp was deeply annoyed"

Don't you just love that ollloloolololol


Tabcorp offered $300 million for the next 10 years to obtain the domestic and international rights.


WOW !!!!!! a whole $30 million per year !!!! ( actually in 5-10 years it would be far less than that)
now let me see without getting my calculator out- lets look at it, Domestic and International rights to control YOUR SPORT and Destiny and make big bucks as well- what were the Melbourne Cup turnover figures again ? ollololoololol I think there is a short change there !!!! even the several meetings at Harness that took in 4 ONLY Trotting races into France TURNED OVER beyond 1.2 million each meeting and what did we get paid for that..............hhhhhhhhhhhmmmm


Well Done RV..........now bring in corporate bookies ( not that I am a lover of them mind you) and lets cut the core business of TABCORP, who knows they may realize they have erred, then again, it maybe too late and the bird has flown now - reap what you sow as the saying goes

[Amlin]

There aren't too many left who will write the occasional negative story on the sport now Bruce - and haven't been for some 10 years or so.


Going way back, people like Cain and Trembath caused grief for the old TCB in the day with some classic yarns but it kept the industry in the headlines and, as they say, any publicity is good publicity.


Only on Thursday has an article finally appeared in the dailies here re the HRV audit - it focussed on the perceived impact on the venue being named after TABCORP. All the headlines when it was announced an audit will take place, and no journalist available to ring HRV and ask about it to generate an article on how the future of the sport will look (taking on board suggestions, clarifying some points with supporting data etc).


Unless you pay for the space now, very little interest it seems I'm afraid. And if you do dare have a say in the negative or supply some constructive criticism - no soup for you!

[Messenger]

http://www.theage.com.au/sport/horseracing/tabcorp-holds-fast-victorian-racing-blackout-goes-ahead-as-threatened-20150615-ghongh.html

Vic gallops clubs cannot get their act together so there is no Sky or Ch7 coverage from today

ps This may take a minute to load as it did for me - Age have been having website problems of late

[squaregaiter]

[QUOTE=Amlin;43095]There aren't too many left who will write the occasional negative story on the sport now Bruce - and haven't been for some 10 years or so.


Not sure where that word came from Amlin as there is no room for that or any time wasting in my life, I am a strictly a positive person only J


this media release is the sort of thing I was steering to where personalities ( commentators/ sportsman/notables that are in the media often ) where it is possible for cross media promoting the sport daily/weekly even in a stealth manner as long as they have a winner and it is positive then stories will come.
http://www.harness.org.au/news-article.cfm?news_id=26823

[Messenger]

I am more a fan of truthful stories whether they be positive or negative as that is what I consider news. As much as I want to see our PR people obtain some positive placement in the media, I do not want it to be at the expense of news. When I talk about news, I am probably talking gallops really as nobody gets their harness news from conventional media sources nowadays - far more likely to be from harnesslink or HRV etc
Paid ads in the papers is probably the closest thing harness has to positive news nowadays, they are after all information about coming events. (ps Dont get me wrong, I think they are a very good thing)

[Amlin]

Perhaps I should have rephrased it as people who will write about negative news these days! This could be seen as creating a false impression that all is right and everyone is happy - which is in fact not the case from what appears on social media

[kung fu man]

With the extra channels we have on free to air I think it probably is the time

[Messenger]

Racing Vic (gallops) sure is taking their time about coming to an agreement - they should be embarrassed that this has dragged on for months which has resulted in this blackout of Vic racing that must be hurting their turnover take

[Messenger]

http://www.theage.com.au/sport/horseracing/victorian-racing-television-blackout-to-end-on-friday-20150625-ghxl0g.html

The blackout ended, well sort of, with Ch 78 broadcasting the racing.com feed but BAD LUCK if you live in the country eg Prime 7 in Western Victoria - NO gallops racing channel for you

[Messenger]

http://theage.digitaleditions.com.au/Olive/ODE/ageweb/LandingPage/LandingPage.aspx?href=QUdFLzIwMTUvMDcvMjE.&pageno=Mzk.&entity=QXIwMzkwNA..&view=ZW50aXR5

Apparently the blackout is helping harness

[Messenger]

The new seven network Vic gallops channels that started in full swing yesterday, 68 or 78 depending on where you live, look really good.
Apart from catching non Sky/Foxtel subscribers at home, I would not be surprised if they prove popular at some public venues as it costs them nothing - was at a licensed cafe today in Dunkeld today and they had it on
I wonder whether Vic harness could get a leg in here for our big meetings? I don't know how receptive the gallops would be as I think they like the easy pace of just broadcasting 2 meetings simultaneously but I reckon there would have to be some night spots that we could buy

[Messenger]

It was interesting to see the new CH7 gallops channel on one of the TV's at the Horsham trots today. I must say it is more my cup of tea than the continuous racing product on the Sky Ch's where you have half the screen filled with betting data for the majority of the time. On 78 you see lots of replays etc - I found that rather ironic as at Horsham we do not have a replay screen of the track's events. I have asked Horsham and Mediatec staff about it in the past and cannot remember why it is not possible - I probably was not listening properly because we all know that it must be possible. Maybe it all boils down to who gives a dam - today you never needed more than your fingers to count the number in the track-side lounge at any time I was in there, which was the whole time between Races 2-6 bar the couple of minutes when those 5 races were run. I only saw the barman serve one drink in all that time. The weather was not that bad really (felt much warmer than the bureau is suggesting) but there was never more than a dozen in the stand to watch any race either.

Being inside the gallops track, Horsham is not a good example of what harness has to offer (a close up experience) and I know it is not about track attendance nowadays so it will be interesting to see how the new gallops/Ch7 alliance works out - I could be converted.