Class Question

[newbie]

Hi, I am pretty new to harness racing. I have a rough idea of how the classes progess ie C0, C1, M1 etc but am trying to work out how a horse can race in the same class again after it just won in that class. ie: a 4YO pacer wins a C1 and then a few starts later is still able to run in another C1 (no handicap etc, just a normal Mobile start). I would have thought that horse would now be a C2 and ineligible to race in C1?

Apologies its probably such an easy thing to know but Im still trying to get my head around it!

thanks

D

[FINEST]

Dave,
In Victoria this can happen for two reasons 1.A Junior claiming driver 2. A Mare can receive one class reduction when racing the boys.

[mightymo]

what Amanda said is correct. In addition, other than Vic, if a horse is a particular class at close of acceptance time it can go in the race even if it wins a race in between the second race

If you give us the name, I can have a look at it

[Toohard]

Can also happen if C0 win was a heat and next race the final. Also sometimes they have penalty free races eg. Invitation drivers races.

[Chariots]

Just to make it a bit harder for you Newbie in some circumstances a horse can $500k as a 2 and 3 year old and still be a CO.


One of the greatest handicapping or should I say non handicapping anomalies of all time.

[newbie]

Thank you all very much for the info. Those explanations do explain the horses I have seen. Quite complicated indeed!!
thanks

[Danno]

Just to make it a bit harder for you Newbie in some circumstances a horse can $500k as a 2 and 3 year old and still be a CO.


One of the greatest handicapping or should I say non handicapping anomalies of all time.

What Ray said!!!!!

and how bloody easy would it be to fix????

[aussiebreno]

Who are these horses yoi speak of Ray and Danno?

[Chariots]

Just off the top of my head Alta Christiano won the $50k Western Gateway, then the $200k WA derby and had its next start in a $6,200 CO at Pinjarra at a $1.04.

Many others if I had the time and inclination to search but the above is a pretty good example of what can happen under our current system.

[arlington]

Follow The Stars, 23 Jan 2015, Terang at Melton CO @ $1.04.
A bit different to the Alta Christiano example as this was Follow the Star's second run back as a 3yo, although he did win the $18,200 Waikato Guineas at his first start back. But still >$450,000 prize money previous season. If there were programming changes, how would these type of fillies be handled?

[aussiebreno]

Winning a $50K and $250K race different story to earning $500K.

Tell me how you would change it?

And let me know how that works out for horses like Royal Verdict and Marquess De Posh.

[Danno]

Brenno,
all that needs to be done is set a prizemoney ceiling on each class of race e.g. C0 winners of in excess of $80k ineligible, C1 winners of $100k ineligible, C2 winners of $150k ineliglible.

The horse will race as a C0 in a C3, still only take a country front but have to face much stiffer company in the C3 front and hopefully not go around at $1.04 stifling the betting as happens currently.

Not certain the prizemeney levels I have used as examples are entirely correct, but the structure would be an easy sell to participants and punters alike, the only one having a gripe might be the connections of the subject horse, but hey they already have had a good time and have cash in their pockets, they are now required to race horses that have more similar in ability as theirs.

[Messenger]

Am I right in assuming that this race does not count as a Career Class penalty race?

http://www.harness.org.au/ausbreed/reports/race_results.cfm?race_code=ARC04041504

Trying to figure how Our Petite Soeur was in the C1 at Cranbourne today

[Danno]

Am I right in assuming that this race does not count as a Career Class penalty race?

http://www.harness.org.au/ausbreed/reports/race_results.cfm?race_code=ARC04041504

Trying to figure how Our Petite Soeur was in the C1 at Cranbourne today

The mare is C2 Kev and gets a one class drop for being a mare, hence eligible for C1, IMO another fault with the system which is choked with"C1" horses, between drop back clauses, mares concessions and IMO an overly generous junior drivers claim we have the current problem of the "C1" horse, which often is in fact a currently C3 mare, who last week was a C4 mare.......going around on "level" terms with say a horse that has had 25/35 starts and won it's only ever race, a C0.

If thats creating even fields and good betting opportunities then I am a genius who had the sense to give this game away thirty years ago!

[Messenger]

Thanks Dan, must remember that - mares concession

[Messenger]

Race 2 at Melton tonight - why is it called an M1? With a stake of only $8505 (only $230 more than the R11 C1) it wont attract a metro penalty so why is it called an M1

http://www.harness.org.au/form.cfm?mc=MX050615#2

[Toohard]

Race 2 at Melton tonight - why is it called an M1? With a stake of only $8505 (only $230 more than the R11 C1) it wont attract a metro penalty so why is it called an M1

http://www.harness.org.au/form.cfm?mc=MX050615#2

Gday

Sometimes they have enough left over from the M1 noms to make up another race (if another race is needed). Still called an M1 but race for less stakes and pretty sure you only get a C penalty (stay an M1 if win). If look at race 7 (the real M1) looks like those horses would have more field selection points than those in race 2 so guessing that's what's happened here.