How do we get people to breed more horses?

[mightymo]

This topic has been discussed from time to time, and a number of the posters on this forum seem to either want to scrap 2yo racing or divert significant prizemoney from 2 and 3yo's to open class pacers.

In light of this, I found this article from well known US scribe, Bill Finley, very interesting.

http://www.harnessracingupdate.com/pdf/hru/hru100815.pdf?v2

[Mark Croatto]

Hi Harvey

I'm only a hobby breeder and with a few friends have bred one mare per season up until last year when we bred two. We breed to race but this season I have extended myself and have an involvement in 4 mares which are going to some decent stallions. I've done this for a couple of reasons, firstly I can afford it this year, and secondly, I tend to think the yearling sales are on the improve and will be OK over the next couple of years.

Like any business venture, people are unlikely to invest unless they have some hope they can make a profit, so there is no doubt in my mind, whether one is a buyer or breeder, the product (horse) has to be able to provide a profit and that boils down to reasonable prize money and opportunity. Diverting prize money from 2YO racing, or condensing the 2YO racing season as has been suggested in submissions made to HRNSW (http://www.harnessmediacentre.com.au/racing-information/two-year-old-racing-review-consolidation-report) is going to restrict the opportunity for many people and will only ensure less people being prepared to invest in either breeding or racing 2YOs.

Business has always been about supply and demand; we can come up with any number of schemes to encourage breeders to breed more horses, but without the buyer is there really any point in it? So, from my perspective, the question should be 'how do we get more people to buy yearlings?'

Regards

Mark

[Messenger]

Harvey, I don't know that there are many posters on here that want to scrap 2yo racing and I don't think I have seen anyone suggest diverting prizemoney from 3yo racing (but I could be wrong) but either way I am not sure that statement has a lot to do with the interesting article you linked. I think Mark's alternative question 'how do we get more people to buy yearlings' is more relevant to the article.

I don't think suggesting 'buy a yearling and you can get your money back quickly' is something that we can promote under any guise for it cannot be denied that not all yearlings are going to be ready as 2yo's and so I do not think that there needs to be such an emphasis on 2yo prizemoney. Listening to young Luke Humphrey being asked on Harness Review about he came to be involved in harness, he talked about how lucky the family were to have a horse (Palais du Louvre) race for so many years - interesting take from an amazingly wise 14/15yo

In my submission to HRV I stressed getting the entertainment package right to get people to come to the trots. Not just people but families for most of us will say that we were 'infected' with the trots at a young age. My main reason for emphasizing attendance was in part my answer to their question on horse population - You have to get people to come to the trots before you can sell them a horse

Reading between the lines of the linked article, I get the feel that the people on track/their money source in the USA are pokies players - they are not going to buy horses if they are not there for the races

As Mark points out, fair return for the breeder is of course influenced by the lure of good prizemoney for the buyer but the old economic keystone - supply and demand, is still a major factor and we have to have enough people wanting to own a standardbred and to me that requires more people to be going to the trots. This is where the suggestion that the punting dollar is more important than attendance - falls down IMO

I am reminded of some of Ray Chaplin's comprehensive reports and his belief that we have to attract 'high value' customers and include the links to a couple of relevant threads

http://www.harnessracingforum.com/showthread.php?6358-Standardbred-Breeding-and-Utilization-Report-What-is-the-future-of-our-industry-sport&highlight=Chaplin

http://www.harnessracingforum.com/showthread.php?6270-Why-has-HRA-not-supported-a-National-Owners-forum-to-discuss-major-issues&highlight=Chaplin

ps If 'real' returns to breeders is decreasing in the U.S they should be striking a better deal on stallion fees to share the pain - I don't think stud fees have come down or have they? (what does that tell us?)

[Mark Croatto]

A successful business has to cover all bases, and 2YO racing is an important part of ours. Whilst I think there is more than enough prize-money available for 2YO's, I don't think it is spread well enough to maximise the potential for return to those who invest.

In NSW the premier series is the Breeders Challenge yet the window of opportunity to participate in 2015 was only 16 days commencing with heats at Wagga Wagga on 16 May and concluding at Menangle on the 2 June. The series programmed 10 heats of $15,000, however 13 were conducted as Menangle hosted 3 extra heats on their day. Some may be happy with this but I certainly am not. The opportunity to participate is so restricted that it certainly causes you to think 'why bother'. Heats were held at Wagga Wagga (16th May), Bathurst (20th May), Penrith (21st May) and Newcastle (22nd May). By design they are scheduled to prevent horses competing at more than 1 venue, so it boils down to having 1 shot at the premier series in this state. Of course you can then go to Menangle a fortnight later but that doesn't suit all participants. By comparison the old NSW Sires Stakes was far superior.

In the 1997/98 season, the 2YO series commenced on the 4th February at Bathurst and there were a further 20 heats throughout the State carrying prize-money of $10,000 per heat! That is nearly 100% more than we have today. Some people may be OK with a reduction in heat numbers as they do carry 50% more prize-money, however, when the industry is struggling we should be doing all that we can possibly do to encourage breeding and investment and reducing opportunity is, in my view a seriously backward step. Horses are fickle creatures and we all know how easily they can get injured, maximising opportunity is foremost to helping people consider whether they will be involved.

Regards

[jackthepunter]

A massive amount of money has to be put in to country racing, thats were 99% of the sport compete and are trying to make enough to survive, and the country prize money is disgraceful and a slap in the face for all involved. Only one horse can win a big 2-3 year old race or open class race and only 12 horses can get in the fields. The reality is most horses are lucky if they can make it to the races and even luckier if they can win one race. A classic example of this down here in vic, is the latest prize money increases nearly all of it went into big races. You cant honesty think people long term are going to keep buying yearling or breeding horses when in 99% times their going to be racing in the country for on average $3,848 for a win, I mean really that doesn't even cover the cost of that preparation to get the horse to the races.

[jackthepunter]

You breed and race alot of horse harvey, what are your thoughts?? Do you agree with any of my comments?

[Messenger]

I have a question too Jack. Do people agree that we need to get attendance up if we want more owners/participants?

[jackthepunter]

I have a question too Jack. Do people agree that we need to get attendance up if we want more owners/participants?

Yes I agree Kev, problem is hrv made a epic balls up building Melton. No sport in the world survives without a city/metro base,because that's were all the money is. So I can't see crowds every coming back at Melton,it's a poor facility all round,no public transport, on the wrong side of town, how the government/racing minster ever sign off on it beggers belief, they have alot to answer for past governments IMO how they let the sport go on unchecked and unmonitored for so long until the audit came out and showed where the sports really at.

[Messenger]

I too appreciate this Jack, I did not dwell on it in my submission (could have!) but in answering the question on how to expand in the eastern suburbs I suggested that we need a sister track for Melton in the east - possibly Cranbourne

[jackthepunter]

I too appreciate this Jack, I did not dwell on it in my submission (could have!) but in answering the question on how to expand in the eastern suburbs I suggested that we need a sister track for Melton in the east - possibly Cranbourne

That's a possibility Kev, my only issue with Cranbourne is the track isn't the best and being inside the gallop track ruins the up close experience to the horses, their nothing like feeling the horse fly right past you

[Messenger]

You're definitely right about NOT wanting a track inside a gallops track - I have not been there for 40yrs and forgot it was one of those

[Richard prior]

This might offend some people and I apologise for this but maybe Melton needs a Casino attached to it.

[jackthepunter]

This might offend some people and I apologise for this but maybe Melton needs a Casino attached to it.

its already got a heap of pokies

[Messenger]

A casino/heaps of pokies might result in increased prizemoney and thereby greater ownership but it sounds a lot like the scenario in the link that Harvey started the thread with - we need people interested in the trots and that is why we have to get the product right
As you alluded to Rich, some people are not keen on the side-effects of pokies/casinos. Even triple premiership Hawthorn copped a dig in one article I read in The Age about how their success has been built on pokies money

[Amlin]

That's a possibility Kev, my only issue with Cranbourne is the track isn't the best and being inside the gallop track ruins the up close experience to the horses, their nothing like feeling the horse fly right past you

Still a fair bit of empty land in and around Moorabin Airport/Dingley, once a strong trotting area. Agree with your observations on Cranbourne. Also shared code facilities have issues of their own.

Why not buy Sandown if the gallops ever leave and sub divide the surplus land for housing?

[Mark Croatto]

It's always intrigued me how popular reality shows are, regardless whether the topic is cooking, trawler fishing, renovating houses, or prospecting for gold, they all seem to have a very strong following. I've given it some thought and I think it comes down to the fact that as humans most of us enjoy challenges and the pursuit of a goal. Striking gold, and how people got there is always interesting, hence why racing has been popular over the centuries. When you consider how many of these programs now exist it goes some way to explaining how good old fashion racing, as an entertainment option, is now struggling. Unfortunately we have kept doing things the way they have always been done and as a result we are struggling to keep up.

Having said that I am by no means suggesting we are a lost cause as there is one specific example from which we can gain confidence and that is Poker. I am stunned, that a game which is so boring to watch has all of a sudden become so popular. Quite amazing really and if you took a moment to consider why it has all to do with the way it has been promoted. The television presentation of it is laced with interesting snippets about the players, their strategies, and the risks and gains that can be made. The way they have dressed poker up is what is behind its meteoric rise in popularity, a popularity that is evident by the number of people that play it now in pubs and clubs. Our harness racing product is still being promoted as it always has and is it any wonder we are lagging behind!

I have no doubt that promoting our sport in new ways where we highlight the rivalry between stables, the strategies of drivers, the preparation of horses is one important way in which new fans can be reached. For goodness sake, they have made buying garage lockers filled with rubbish sexy, exciting and entertaining; surely we can do much better when you have the horses we enjoy so much as the centre piece. Why hasn't someone produced a reality show about harness racing which follows a couple of harness racing stables as they have gold mining crews in Gold Rush Alaska!!!!!

[Messenger]

I must say I do not watch a lot of reality TV but the ones that I do are shows that I can relate to eg Escape To The Country, Location Location Location. I think people watch shows where they can relate to characters and where they can barrack for someone to have success.

I have been a serious poker player for an eternity and I would have said that Poker peaked at least five years ago. I still play fairly regularly online but dont seek out the programs like I once did as after awhile you have seen every hand there is to see umpteen times.

I am a TV addict but I do not know what the garage lockers show or the Alaska Gold Rush shows even are, so are you sure they are really popular Mark

I still think first and foremost we have to make the day/night at the trots entertaining. You need exciting racing on purpose built tracks. You have to fill the time between races. You need to have landscaped outdoor areas and a good dining room as the between race hub (dining can fill the time between at least a couple of races for a start) In this hub you have to have in house TV screens that show the sort of stuff that the new Racing.com Ch78/68 does to keep the keen punters informed/interested. At big meetings (Metro etc) you have to have a spruiker/entertainer creating a bit of atmosphere and giving away vouchers, running a punting club, running competitions etc etc. We have to offer a good time. I think a lot of it has to be horse orientated as we need attendees to become enthusiasts and possibly owners and breeders - our lifeblood

If we cannot attract people we will die - the remnants of the industry might be suburb of Melton and pockets where hobby enthusiast meet to race each other

Good old fashioned gallops racing has taken a bit of a hit because of the number of alternatives nowadays but they will always be a force and I believe we simply need to model ourselves more like them. I am certainly not discounting the media support they enjoy - why that cannot be us is one of many things we have to address

It is late and I am sure I am rambling but I am going to hit post anyway

[Mark Croatto]

They're on A&E and Discovery channels Kevin and are most definitely popular, however, the point is that mundane subject areas have been made very interesting by the way they are presented. We present harness racing much like we always have; to get people involved and to the track we have to ignite their interest and that will only happen when we change the way we promote our sport. Pleasant dreams :-)

[Messenger]

You are probably right Mark. One thing for sure is that whatever the presentation - we have to reach more people, maybe a creative PR firm can come on board (I hear the actual Vic Board will be subject of an enforced spill after legislation went through)

[Messenger]

If we want a top-rater, how about a trotting drama called Breaking Bad (that might get Ash to resurface :))

[Adaptor]

The costs associated with breeding...not just the service fee
One intersting point raised at Bendigo during the recent HRV consultation process was the cost of breeding.....not just the service fee.
It's the veterinary fees that go along with AI breeding and using the transported chilled and frozen semen, as compared to the natural service that was once the norm that may be preventing and reducing breeding.
One active participant (long time owner, trainer, driver) has 6 mares that could be bred from, but is probably going to breed from the best one or possibly two, due to the associated costs.
That's just to get the mare in foal !
I haven't been involved in the breeding of horses for a long time, so have no accurate costing.
What does it cost on top of the service fee?

[Jimbob]

We are putting 3 mares (hopefully) in foal this year. Vet bill $600-$1000 per foal. Semen transport(inc delivery and pick up) up to $180 per foal. Agistment for the mares. $60-$70 per week depending on amount of grass. We use these services as the mare is looked after in the best possible way giving the future foal the best chance. Once the horse is off the mother, you then have breaking in costs (I am very lucky to have my brother do a fantastic job of this). Not to mention food for the horse. I have a cost of $5000 - $6500 per horse to get them from semen to 2 year old (ready to win races) lol plus the cost of the semen (this year for the three horses will be $12500). I spend a year trying my best to match up my Broodmares to the best stallions i can afford, as it is a big loss if you get it wrong. I know people can do it cheaper with their own properties etc, but this is how much it costs if you don't.

[Mark Croatto]

The costs associated with breeding...not just the service fee
One intersting point raised at Bendigo during the recent HRV consultation process was the cost of breeding.....not just the service fee.
It's the veterinary fees that go along with AI breeding and using the transported chilled and frozen semen, as compared to the natural service that was once the norm that may be preventing and reducing breeding.
One active participant (long time owner, trainer, driver) has 6 mares that could be bred from, but is probably going to breed from the best one or possibly two, due to the associated costs.
That's just to get the mare in foal !
I haven't been involved in the breeding of horses for a long time, so have no accurate costing.
What does it cost on top of the service fee?

Hi Noel

That's a very relevant angle to consider this discussion from. There is no doubt that it is far more expensive today to breed a foal; those breeders that used to stand a stallion or two, and had their own band of mares which they bred every season, no longer exist. If they do they are in a very small minority, but many of them had their 20 to 30 mares and I suppose, as a group they were responsible for a significant proportion of the foal population each season. Their costs were well down on today as most of these services were natural rather than AI.

I suppose this approach to breeding was good for numbers as their foals were broken in on mass, those that showed natural ability and were quick to learn were kept, the others were sold off cheaply. However, I'm not so sure it was good for the improvement of the breed. It's certainly a factor, at least in NSW when considering the quality of horses today compared to the past, and the degree of involvement by breeders.

Regards

[Messenger]

Watching the gallops yesterday reminded me of how we need to grow umpteenfold to get our prizemoney up to a level that makes ownership something more than a charitable donation for all but a few (I know I am ignoring the pleasure side)
You see lots of shots of the crowd and everybody is wearing a suit or a dress - we need the 'high value' followers too

[Mark Croatto]

Watching the gallops yesterday reminded me of how we need to grow umpteenfold to get our prizemoney up to a level that makes ownership something more than a charitable donation for all but a few (I know I am ignoring the pleasure side)
You see lots of shots of the crowd and everybody is wearing a suit or a dress - we need the 'high value' followers too

Hi Kev

I know what you are getting at, but I really don't see that ever happening. It's a bit like Country Music and Opera, both have their following and exist independent of each other. The people we have in harness is why I'm involved; mostly down to earth country folk. Yes, we need more money but the gallops bang on the same drum as well :)

[Danno]

I think the absolute first thing our game needs is a greater level of participation across the board...(wouldn't worry too much lads about the suits and skirts, the people in those shots are having a day out and dressing up, more often than not beyond their pay grade)


The question in Harvey's thread is how do we get more people breeding horses.....I hate to over simplify things ( which is a chronic problem of mine) but.........the number of horses being bred is but a symptom of our problem, the real issue is of course demand, not supply.


There have been many ill founded demand "fixes" over the last few decades, the most damaging to our game in the longer term has been the ridiculous money on offer for 2YO racing......but wait Harvey would have us believe an article written telling us there is not enough money being paid for 2YO's across the other side of the world might make more people want to breed horses here?


Sorry Harvey I have seen some lame arguments in my time, but that article is probably the most baseless attempt to show a way forward in our games challenges through my personal involvement of almost 50 years.


We need to face the real challenges our game is facing not simply come up with short term "prop ups"...people need to be breeding more horses because other people are wanting to buy them.....not ANOTHER pathetic short term "fix" that actually chases away 95% of the new people in the hope of retaining 5%......and those are the numbers of success in 2YO racing.

[Messenger]

I hear you too Mark and it does seem a huge gap but I fear that if we do not try to bridge it we could eventually become not much more than a Melton club here in Vic. 99% of people I see at Stawell RACES tomorrow will be your down to earth country folk but the gallops know how to put on a big Metro show and attract the $ too
Thinking we must always be inferior is part of what makes us inferior IMO. If we start tomorrow it will take decades but if we don't it will NEVER happen. Call me a dreamer. The way things stand now, I think I can see why people would buy into a galloper rather than a standardbred - even if they would be getting a smaller share

[Messenger]

I think the absolute first thing our game needs is a greater level of participation across the board...(wouldn't worry too much lads about the suits and skirts, the people in those shots are having a day out and dressing up, more often than not beyond their pay grade)


The question in Harvey's thread is how do we get more people breeding horses.....I hate to over simplify things ( which is a chronic problem of mine) but.........the number of horses being bred is but a symptom of our problem, the real issue is of course demand, not supply.


There have been many ill founded demand "fixes" over the last few decades, the most damaging to our game in the longer term has been the ridiculous money on offer for 2YO racing......but wait Harvey would have us believe an article written telling us there is not enough money being paid for 2YO's across the other side of the world might make more people want to breed horses here?


Sorry Harvey I have seen some lame arguments in my time, but that article is probably the most baseless attempt to show a way forward in our games challenges through my personal involvement of almost 50 years.


We need to face the real challenges our game is facing not simply come up with short term "prop ups"...people need to be breeding more horses because other people are wanting to buy them.....not ANOTHER pathetic short term "fix" that actually chases away 95% of the new people in the hope of retaining 5%......and those are the numbers of success in 2YO racing.

Dan, I think the first 2 replies to Harvey's OP established that the question is how do we get more people to buy yearlings and a question of demand

ps I think you will find an incredible number of those suits at the gallops are young people willing to spend money - we need them

[codywinnell]

A massive amount of money has to be put in to country racing, thats were 99% of the sport compete and are trying to make enough to survive, and the country prize money is disgraceful and a slap in the face for all involved. Only one horse can win a big 2-3 year old race or open class race and only 12 horses can get in the fields. The reality is most horses are lucky if they can make it to the races and even luckier if they can win one race. A classic example of this down here in vic, is the latest prize money increases nearly all of it went into big races. You cant honesty think people long term are going to keep buying yearling or breeding horses when in 99% times their going to be racing in the country for on average $3,848 for a win, I mean really that doesn't even cover the cost of that preparation to get the horse to the races.

Hi Jack,
I'd be interested in knowing how you come up with your figures.
The stakes increases you have referenced by saying "a classic example of this down here in vic, is the latest prize money increases nearly all of it went into big races". are quite interesting.
The following is the full list of stakes increases that were announced by Victoria. Can you please define what you mean by "nearly all" in the above statement? I'll bold the bits where I think you've erred.

• Graduation races from $3000 to $3500 (42 meetings a year)
• Metropolitan front M1 and TM1 or better class events by $1000 a race
• Country fillies and mares races by $1000 a race (excluding Futurity races)
• Country penalty races at Tabcorp Park Melton metropolitan meetings by $1000 a race
• Payments for horses that finish sixth to last increase by $10.
• Listed metropolitan feature races from $25,000 to $30,000 (and become Group 3 events)
• Hunter Cup from $400,000 to $500,000
• 4YO & 5YO Championship from $50,000 to $75,000
• 4YO Bonanza from $30,000 to $100,000 (becomes Victoria’s first non-Futurity Group 1 for four-year-olds)
• Vicbred First Win bonus for 4YOs increases from $5000 to $7000 in line with 2YO and 3YO bonuses (estimated increase of $430,000)
• Country Pacing Cups prize money increases by $154,000
• Country Trotting Cups prize money increases by $57,000
• Maori Mile at Bendigo from $30,000 to $50,000 (becomes a Group 1)

When you consider Vicbred First Win Bonus changing to include 4yos alone is estimated at an increase of $430,000, and the increases in stakes opportunities for graduation races, of which there are 42 meetings annually, country fillies and mares races, country penalty races at Melton and increased earnings for horses that finish 6th to last, I'd challenge your expressed views as being rather flawed.

We all know country trots folk need to be able to race for enough prizemoney to earn a proper crust, which is why I think the most recent stakes announcement here in Victoria was so encouraging and a step in the right direction.

[jackthepunter]

Hi Jack,
I'd be interested in knowing how you come up with your figures.
The stakes increases you have referenced by saying "a classic example of this down here in vic, is the latest prize money increases nearly all of it went into big races". are quite interesting.
The following is the full list of stakes increases that were announced by Victoria. Can you please define what you mean by "nearly all" in the above statement? I'll bold the bits where I think you've erred.

• Graduation races from $3000 to $3500 (42 meetings a year)
• Metropolitan front M1 and TM1 or better class events by $1000 a race
• Country fillies and mares races by $1000 a race (excluding Futurity races)
• Country penalty races at Tabcorp Park Melton metropolitan meetings by $1000 a race
• Payments for horses that finish sixth to last increase by $10.
• Listed metropolitan feature races from $25,000 to $30,000 (and become Group 3 events)
• Hunter Cup from $400,000 to $500,000
• 4YO & 5YO Championship from $50,000 to $75,000
• 4YO Bonanza from $30,000 to $100,000 (becomes Victoria’s first non-Futurity Group 1 for four-year-olds)
• Vicbred First Win bonus for 4YOs increases from $5000 to $7000 in line with 2YO and 3YO bonuses (estimated increase of $430,000)
• Country Pacing Cups prize money increases by $154,000
• Country Trotting Cups prize money increases by $57,000
• Maori Mile at Bendigo from $30,000 to $50,000 (becomes a Group 1)

When you consider Vicbred First Win Bonus changing to include 4yos alone is estimated at an increase of $430,000, and the increases in stakes opportunities for graduation races, of which there are 42 meetings annually, country fillies and mares races, country penalty races at Melton and increased earnings for horses that finish 6th to last, I'd challenge your expressed views as being rather flawed.

We all know country trots folk need to be able to race for enough prizemoney to earn a proper crust, which is why I think the most recent stakes announcement here in Victoria was so encouraging and a step in the right direction.

IMO all that money and any future stake increases should go into country prize money, because country races is where the heart of the sport is, and the prize money is know where near good enough or sustainable for the future. Metro prize money while not great didn't need to be increase nor did these other race your listed, because their all ready had enough money and the same horses would have run in them anyway. I do find increasing races like the 4yo bonanza by $70,000 beyond ridiculous, the same with those other races because imo their didn't need urget help or an increase. The Graduation race system doesn't work the way it should anyway, its supposed to give horses with not much ability the chance to earn money but alot of the time it doesn't because you at hrv, run to many heat and final races which allow good horses to run in them and use them as trails, or u get alot of noms for one class and none for another so you split the two races same problem again. A good example is last nite at shepparton, what is a horse like iceobar doing running at this meeting?? All these races should be ran as restricted class races eg, ro,r1 races so the horses their supposed to help are the ones getting a chance to earn in them, get rid of the heat and finals and give people a chance.

[Amlin]

My query would be, where have the horses gone over about a C4 mark. The noms drastically drop away in the country for races over C4, and "fast class" events are hardly even programmed outside of TP now except for Cup and claiming races.

I am told the drop back rule has created a glut of C1 horses but really, how many horses in a bottom up C1 have ever been a C5 in their career?

You race for much the same money in a C5 as you do a C0 - only in harness does this issue exist.

Even if I invested in shares in a company or had a term deposit, under normal circumstances you would expect your investment to earn an increased rate of return the longer you hold onto it

[jackthepunter]

My query would be, where have the horses gone over about a C4 mark. The noms drastically drop away in the country for races over C4, and "fast class" events are hardly even programmed outside of TP now except for Cup and claiming races.

I am told the drop back rule has created a glut of C1 horses but really, how many horses in a bottom up C1 have ever been a C5 in their career?

You race for much the same money in a C5 as you do a C0 - only in harness does this issue exist.

Even if I invested in shares in a company or had a term deposit, under normal circumstances you would expect your investment to earn an increased rate of return the longer you hold onto it
I think alot of that has to do with how races are program once horses get up in class, their country races c6 or better or metro mo or better. instead of say c5-c10 races or m2-m4 or m4 or better and so on. once u get up in grade a bit, they seem to group more classes together

[codywinnell]

My query would be, where have the horses gone over about a C4 mark. The noms drastically drop away in the country for races over C4, and "fast class" events are hardly even programmed outside of TP now except for Cup and claiming races.

I am told the drop back rule has created a glut of C1 horses but really, how many horses in a bottom up C1 have ever been a C5 in their career?

You race for much the same money in a C5 as you do a C0 - only in harness does this issue exist.

Even if I invested in shares in a company or had a term deposit, under normal circumstances you would expect your investment to earn an increased rate of return the longer you hold onto it

Just my opinion this one, but I've always been a fan of weighted prizemoney dependent on class.

[mightymo]

sorry for not replying earlier, but I have been away for a few days checking out foals/mares etc

For me the answer is more owners or more prizemoney which is like the chicken and egg question. If you get either, the other will happen.

I firmly believe that in order to entice the youth and younger people of today as owners, you have to sell them a dream - a dream to win BIG. Much like the Golden Slipper and Magic Millions races.

People buy lotto tickets not because they expect to become overnight millionaires, but because there is a chance, albeit remote, to win immediate wealth.

We need to create a dream race/s that new owners can be drawn towards. They are not going to wait for 5 and 6 years to see if that dream is realised by winning an ID or Vic Cup or Hunter Cup

We should be throwing more money to 2 and 3yos. Once these people get hooked, just like I did some 15 years ago, then they will be more likely to race more horses and even breed horses.

I would love to see a $1m race for 2 and 3yos - for me this is the best way of getting new people into our sport.

Dan - I eagerly await your reply in the negative!:):)

[jackthepunter]

Just my opinion this one, but I've always been a fan of weighted prizemoney dependent on class.

difinitely better chance of working than the current way which doesnt work,same with the trail coming up with PBD , which imo is a waste of time,would have been far better off to trail a system like this for 2-3months or more, I Think its one of the few ways to try and get more even races.

[Messenger]

sorry for not replying earlier, but I have been away for a few days checking out foals/mares etc

For me the answer is more owners or more prizemoney which is like the chicken and egg question. If you get either, the other will happen.

I firmly believe that in order to entice the youth and younger people of today as owners, you have to sell them a dream - a dream to win BIG. Much like the Golden Slipper and Magic Millions races.

People buy lotto tickets not because they expect to become overnight millionaires, but because there is a chance, albeit remote, to win immediate wealth.

We need to create a dream race/s that new owners can be drawn towards. They are not going to wait for 5 and 6 years to see if that dream is realised by winning an ID or Vic Cup or Hunter Cup

We should be throwing more money to 2 and 3yos. Once these people get hooked, just like I did some 15 years ago, then they will be more likely to race more horses and even breed horses.

I would love to see a $1m race for 2 and 3yos - for me this is the best way of getting new people into our sport.

Dan - I eagerly await your reply in the negative!:):)

I have always been one for thinking big too Harvey. In my submission to the HRV, I pointed out that devotees of the standardbred were 90% likely to have been to the trots in their younger years while gallops followers may have been hooked purely by the Melbourne Cup. I think we have to develop our equivalent of the Melbourne Cup, like the cup it has to be at the same venue, same distance, same qualifying conditions and on the same memorable date every year. I don't fancy the idea of it being a 2yo race at all but would be happy to consider our Melbourne Cup to possibly be the Derby (Australian?) on the last Sunday in August or something of that ilk

[Amlin]

Only two horses assessed higher than C6 drawn to compete across the four meetings between today (Monday) and Thursday in Victoria.

[Danno]

Sorry to disappoint you Harvey, but a actually agree with some of your points,


a) "selling a dream", no risk in the world this works if you hit the right note with the right demographic.


b) "they are not going to wait 5 and 6 six years to see if that dream is realised"


In my humble opinion the best way to introduce new owners to the game is not wait for a yearling to be broken in, given at least 3 preparations and then have the trainer tell you 95 out of a hundred times...


" mate he's not a 2 yo, but he looks like he might make the grade down the track" .....wonderful way to introduce new owners into the game...tell them there is a pot of gold...get them to buy a yearling for more than it is worth, promise them the world, and then 19 times out twenty inform them the dream might have to be put on hold for another couple of years!!!!! and then hope they are "hooked enough" off no fun, lots of bills, no return.....???


The best way to introduce new people to ownership is NOT and never has been buying yearlings, a smart man does not kill the potential enthusiasm of 95% of his market to prop up 5% that have a bit of fun and less than 3% who break even on costs.....what a bonza way to kill your product!!!! and guess what! we've been doing it for decades!!!


Introduce new owners to the game with ready to run horses they can buy this week and watch at the races next, they will have fun immediately win lose or draw, they haven't been bashed with never ending bills for absolutely nothing and they get a feel for the game, get to meet like minded folks at the races and have a much greater chance of becoming " hooked" ....like us! ( starting to feel like a "pusher" )


I admire everyone who loves this game as I do, we do not all have all the answers, but this tripe of increasing Juvenile prize money to get new owners into the game has played its part in sending people away....you can only squeeze an orange so many times before it gets dry and sour.


The answer is NOT more money for 2yo racing is actually less, we should be breeding for sustainability first and foremost and sustainability is not about producing 5% of the product getting to the races.


Thanks Harvey,


that's my " negative" reply,


Cheers,


Dan.

[Messenger]

Good stuff Dan - my introduction to ownership was a share of a going NZer

ps Nice to see Alycone visiting

[Toohard]

Off topic I guess, but the Melton track has been mentioned in this thread so just for peoples info, there is a huge housing development about to occur just to the east of the Melton track. Also believe a new suburb being planned to the north of it. One of the fastest growing areas in Australia.

http://www.propertyobserver.com.au/finding/residential-investment/suburb-spotlights/30039-suburb-spotlight-melton-council-gearing-up-for-growth.html

So the track will soon be surrounded by housing and with the population tipped to double in the next 15 years would appear to be ideally situated. New developments are usually populated with the 'younger generation'.

Also... Cody will probably be best to answer... What was done to get all those people there on Saturday night? Was the biggest crowd have seen there for ages. Had kids entertainment on and a band playing but was anything else done? Terribly disappointing that the storm put an end to the night. Am always interested when see new faces there. Asked a few of them whilst sheltering from storm if their first time there and why they came. Surprisingly most said yes and most said because no footy on, because it was a Saturday night and because a nice night (pre storm!) and most of them were locals.



Don't know the answer to the breeding question. As Harvey says it's a chicken and egg thing. People breeding to sell aren't going to keep breeding if they are going to lose money doing it. And it's a cost;y exercise as pointed out earlier and someone has to pay. If you look at hourly rates then most trainers would be amongst the lowest paid people going around.

I only breed one a year or so and keep them to race. Don't do it to make a dollar although you always hope you will. In all the time have been doing it have had one that paid his way and also financed a few more. But you have to be very, very lucky for that to happen. Don't know how you 'sell' that to people given that people these days are very impatient. Hard to expain to people when they ask why you do it. "Why spend all that money and take all that risk when you might not get anything back?" And then the same people ask "Why do you get so excited when you win one?"

Like Marks idea of a reality TV show! Would be real reality too not the concocted crap they serve up currently. Need to tell the stories of the lesser known people more too.

Dannos right about the ready to run horses. Know of someone who has been a long time follower but never had a share in a standardbred until recently. Took a share in an up and running one and have had a few wins already. Tipping that will get them involved in another one. But that won't happen everytime and selling something that 'might happen' is hard job to do. Like Harvey said you are trying to sell someone a dream. And when peoples dreams these days are meeting their perfect match or cooking a perfect steak on 'reality TV' it's a hard sell.

Stake money increases recently a real winner I reckon. Win 1 race as a 2, 3 or 4yo and get a $7k bonus. Not going to cover costs but its a great help.

Need to 'sell' the whole experience but as above, a hard job these days.


Someone took the time to write their thoughts on the whole industry here https://dashman01.wordpress.com/2015/09/15/harnessing-my-wish-list/

Interesting read.

[Messenger]

A long read too which sadly means not many will bother - that is the world today
My favourite idea was
A breeding register should also be looked into. Any mare that retires from racing is then entered onto the breeding register, Not only would this help in capturing details of the potential size of the breeding population, open the avenue of information sharing and the possibility of leasing and sale.
I also liked his thoughts on scheduling/Sky Channel

[Amlin]

Off topic I guess, but the Melton track has been mentioned in this thread so just for peoples info, there is a huge housing development about to occur just to the east of the Melton track. Also believe a new suburb being planned to the north of it. One of the fastest growing areas in Australia.

http://www.propertyobserver.com.au/finding/residential-investment/suburb-spotlights/30039-suburb-spotlight-melton-council-gearing-up-for-growth.html

So the track will soon be surrounded by housing and with the population tipped to double in the next 15 years would appear to be ideally situated. New developments are usually populated with the 'younger generation'.

Also... Cody will probably be best to answer... What was done to get all those people there on Saturday night? Was the biggest crowd have seen there for ages. Had kids entertainment on and a band playing but was anything else done? Terribly disappointing that the storm put an end to the night. Am always interested when see new faces there. Asked a few of them whilst sheltering from storm if their first time there and why they came. Surprisingly most said yes and most said because no footy on, because it was a Saturday night and because a nice night (pre storm!) and most of them were locals.



Don't know the answer to the breeding question. As Harvey says it's a chicken and egg thing. People breeding to sell aren't going to keep breeding if they are going to lose money doing it. And it's a cost;y exercise as pointed out earlier and someone has to pay. If you look at hourly rates then most trainers would be amongst the lowest paid people going around.

I only breed one a year or so and keep them to race. Don't do it to make a dollar although you always hope you will. In all the time have been doing it have had one that paid his way and also financed a few more. But you have to be very, very lucky for that to happen. Don't know how you 'sell' that to people given that people these days are very impatient. Hard to expain to people when they ask why you do it. "Why spend all that money and take all that risk when you might not get anything back?" And then the same people ask "Why do you get so excited when you win one?"

Like Marks idea of a reality TV show! Would be real reality too not the concocted crap they serve up currently. Need to tell the stories of the lesser known people more too.

Dannos right about the ready to run horses. Know of someone who has been a long time follower but never had a share in a standardbred until recently. Took a share in an up and running one and have had a few wins already. Tipping that will get them involved in another one. But that won't happen everytime and selling something that 'might happen' is hard job to do. Like Harvey said you are trying to sell someone a dream. And when peoples dreams these days are meeting their perfect match or cooking a perfect steak on 'reality TV' it's a hard sell.

Stake money increases recently a real winner I reckon. Win 1 race as a 2, 3 or 4yo and get a $7k bonus. Not going to cover costs but its a great help.

Need to 'sell' the whole experience but as above, a hard job these days.


Someone took the time to write their thoughts on the whole industry here https://dashman01.wordpress.com/2015/09/15/harnessing-my-wish-list/

Interesting read.







I did notice Paul when I was there on business a couple of Friday's ago I happened to pass through the upstairs dining room about an hour before the first - there were 49 tables set for bookings - not sure if each holds 8 or 10 people but even with 8 at each table that is a good amount of pre-bookings for a Friday night IMO - and definitely something that can only go up in future if they enjoy themselves and have a value for money night.


Ballarat have had similar success of late too with groups, charity nights etc.

[Messenger]

I did notice Paul when I was there on business a couple of Friday's ago I happened to pass through the upstairs dining room about an hour before the first - there were 49 tables set for bookings - not sure if each holds 8 or 10 people but even with 8 at each table that is a good amount of pre-bookings for a Friday night IMO - and definitely something that can only go up in future if they enjoy themselves and have a value for money night.


Ballarat have had similar success of late too with groups, charity nights etc.

But it is a long way from Warragul Kyle :(

[Toohard]

I did notice Paul when I was there on business a couple of Friday's ago I happened to pass through the upstairs dining room about an hour before the first - there were 49 tables set for bookings - not sure if each holds 8 or 10 people but even with 8 at each table that is a good amount of pre-bookings for a Friday night IMO - and definitely something that can only go up in future if they enjoy themselves and have a value for money night.


Ballarat have had similar success of late too with groups, charity nights etc.

As an aside Kyle. Have been going to Moonee Valley and Flemington gallops the last 6 months or so. Take Luke to practice his race calling. World class facilities even in the middle of winter. And guess what? No bugger turns up! Crowd at Moonee Valley other week less than trots 20 year ago on a slow day. Central Melbourne location and no one turns up! Not just harness racing suffering. Guess Melton trying to engage local community and good for them. Will only get bigger I reckon.

[Richard prior]

But it is a long way from Warragul Kyle :(

I'll give you a lift Kev.

[Toohard]

ooops... think hit enter twice

[Messenger]

As an aside Kyle. Have been going to Moonee Valley and Flemington gallops the last 6 months or so. Take Luke to practice his race calling. World class facilities even in the middle of winter. And guess what? No bugger turns up! Crowd at Moonee Valley other week less than trots 20 year ago on a slow day. Central Melbourne location and no one turns up! Not just harness racing suffering. Guess Melton trying to engage local community and good for them. Will only get bigger I reckon.

That is really interesting Paul, maybe it only catches on when it is not competing with football.
At Stawell Races yesterday there are more attending than Stawell trots despite charging admittance, having no Dining, no pokies, no TAB - so they are doing OK

[Messenger]

I'll give you a lift Kev.

I'll be the jockey in the Gas tanker :confused:

[Richard prior]

How much land does HRV own out at Melton???

[Amlin]

But it is a long way from Warragul Kyle :(

In more ways than one

[Amlin]

How much land does HRV own out at Melton???

Don't quote me but perhaps 100 acres

[Richard prior]

Just read a bit of the recent Audit and sorry to correct you Kyle but it appears that HRV own 107 hectares at Melton, Very nice to own that in a growing area.

[codywinnell]

As an aside Kyle. Have been going to Moonee Valley and Flemington gallops the last 6 months or so. Take Luke to practice his race calling. World class facilities even in the middle of winter. And guess what? No bugger turns up! Crowd at Moonee Valley other week less than trots 20 year ago on a slow day. Central Melbourne location and no one turns up! Not just harness racing suffering. Guess Melton trying to engage local community and good for them. Will only get bigger I reckon.

Hi Paul,

To answer one of your earlier questions, the Melton Plate Night meeting is extremely well-supported by local community. The Melton Council gets involved in the evening with dining bookings, and this year they also tried out the in-harness experience, which the mayor absolutely loved.

It was a great crowd and everyone had a blast. It was so disappointing to see the weather gods turn on the evening because there was such a positive vibe around the joint with everyone having fun and some great racing planned.

As far as racing events go, Melton Plate night is always growing and it's a chance for the locals to go and celebrate this great industry that is in their backyard 24/7, 365 days a year.

I'm confident we as an industry will have won some new fans off the back of Saturday night even though we only had four races.

[p plater]

Thinking out of left field on how to get more people breeding more horses.....what if
A stallion service and or semen was $0 but the stud got say 10% of prizemoney until aged 6.
This would keep the initial costs down for the breeders and the stud could get a handsome return if their stallion produces some good ones.
Horses could be sold at sales with a better chance of the breeder making something and the new owners have a silent partner in for 10% of return.

[Amlin]

Info here on The Pegasus Project at Melton, which I think is the one driven by HRV and co on land surrounding the existing site.


http://www.pegasusproject.com.au/

[Messenger]

Offering over $1M in prizemoney at a midweek non-holiday meeting must help - unbelievable the gallopers (Caulfield today)

[Richard prior]

Thanks Kyle

[Messenger]

It's always intrigued me how popular reality shows are, regardless whether the topic is cooking, trawler fishing, renovating houses, or prospecting for gold, they all seem to have a very strong following. I've given it some thought and I think it comes down to the fact that as humans most of us enjoy challenges and the pursuit of a goal. Striking gold, and how people got there is always interesting, hence why racing has been popular over the centuries. When you consider how many of these programs now exist it goes some way to explaining how good old fashion racing, as an entertainment option, is now struggling. Unfortunately we have kept doing things the way they have always been done and as a result we are struggling to keep up.

Having said that I am by no means suggesting we are a lost cause as there is one specific example from which we can gain confidence and that is Poker. I am stunned, that a game which is so boring to watch has all of a sudden become so popular. Quite amazing really and if you took a moment to consider why it has all to do with the way it has been promoted. The television presentation of it is laced with interesting snippets about the players, their strategies, and the risks and gains that can be made. The way they have dressed poker up is what is behind its meteoric rise in popularity, a popularity that is evident by the number of people that play it now in pubs and clubs. Our harness racing product is still being promoted as it always has and is it any wonder we are lagging behind!

I have no doubt that promoting our sport in new ways where we highlight the rivalry between stables, the strategies of drivers, the preparation of horses is one important way in which new fans can be reached. For goodness sake, they have made buying garage lockers filled with rubbish sexy, exciting and entertaining; surely we can do much better when you have the horses we enjoy so much as the centre piece. Why hasn't someone produced a reality show about harness racing which follows a couple of harness racing stables as they have gold mining crews in Gold Rush Alaska!!!!!

Been thinking about this Mark and I think it is what I like about the new gallops Ch in Vic 68/78. They have time to tell the stories of racing

[Adaptor]

Swan Hill next Wednesday has only 48 horses involved.
Six races only !

That on top of 7 races at Ballarat on Tuesday, and 7 races at Stawell on Monday.

[Messenger]

Gee that is thin. I have been sneaking a peak at the gallopers lately and they seem to have the opposite problem in that they frequently have 4 emergencies named in country races even - it is worth being an emerg mind you as they often get a run

[broco]

You see kevin the gallops dont have this ridiculous stand down rule on scratching, you just pay your vets fee or scratching fee and be done with it, so if a horse draws an unsuitable barrier, cant get the right jockey, it rains and the track wont suit the horse or the trainer just isn't happy with the race he/she can scratch and the emergency gains a run.
We are not afforded that in harness racing if you scratch your automatically stood down for at least 7 days from the race day not from the day you scratch even.
There really are some very comical rules in harness racing that are pretty prehistoric and certainly dont do anyone any favours, surely bog tracks deserve a no penalty scratching.
I suppose from someone who grew up in the thoroughbred industry the differences in the 2 codes is clearly obvious.

If we want more breeders than the overall value of the standardbred needs to rise because while ever its cheaper to buy than breed your going to struggle with breeder numbers

[Messenger]

Swan Hill next Wednesday has only 48 horses involved.
Six races only !

That on top of 7 races at Ballarat on Tuesday, and 7 races at Stawell on Monday.

Probably because it was only a 7 race program they did not run the first until 2.03pm. I like to make it lunch part of the day out and today I did not make it to the trots even though I was in Stawell - things are crook especially when I went to the Hamilton Cup yesterday (gallops). Suggestions for my punishment are being taken :rolleyes:

[Toohard]

Trot Brisbane - Twitter

Dreams can come true. Nice feel good harness racing story and the owner a little girl in Ohio is living her dream https://t.co/AmD6sIPuk9

[Messenger]

Good one Paul. A must view everyone

[Toohard]

Just spotted on harnesslink too Kev. In news section.

[Toohard]

http://www.harnesslink.com/mobile#url=News/Off-to-the-races-Meet-the-little-horse-that-could

[Richard prior]

Great story Paul.

[HISGEN65]

It is just my opinion but I think the opportunities for average horses to have a place in the sport has declined rapidly in last 5 years or so which inturn reduces the amount of breeding especially from the average Joe who can only afford the medium to lower priced sires - it wasn't long ago when you could breed a horse that could run around 1.59 to 2.00 minute mark & have a place to race & win a couple - these days with the decline in weekend racing combined with how fast the young horses are running these days a lot of people I have spoken to are sick of breeding dog meat - harsh reality but that's how I see it, we all know the cost,time & heartache of breeding horses - so my answer to the original topic is, it is a case of not so much throwing loads of money around the place but maybe finding ways to increase the opportunities & avenues.

[strong persuader]

It is just my opinion but I think the opportunities for average horses to have a place in the sport has declined rapidly in last 5 years or so which inturn reduces the amount of breeding especially from the average Joe who can only afford the medium to lower priced sires-it wasn't long ago when you could breed a horse that could run around 1.59 to 2.00 minute mark & have a place to race & win a couple-these days with the decline in weekend racing combined with how fast the young horses are running these days a lot of people I have spoken to are sick of breeding dog meat-hash reality but that's how I see it,we all know the cost,time & heartache of breeding horses-so my answer to the original topic is,it is a case of not so much throwing loads of money around the place but maybe finding ways to increase the opportunities & avenues.

Amen to this. I only hope that the powers that be realise before it is too late that they have steered the industry into a huge black hole!

[Amlin]

There's a solution to Australia's trotting problems summed up in one paragraph in my opinion. Ironically, we had such a system in place going back 20 - 30 years, but it has been progressively pulled apart and destroyed over time.


Restricted racing on weekends etc at country venues was a feeder into the TAB tracks. Just a memory now but talk to people, particularly those no longer involved, who had an involvement on a small scale, and they will tell you how important this was to the overall code, by creating a supply of horses and participants from the bottom up.


We now live with the results of what happens when you cut off the "grass roots".







It is just my opinion but I think the opportunities for average horses to have a place in the sport has declined rapidly in last 5 years or so which inturn reduces the amount of breeding especially from the average Joe who can only afford the medium to lower priced sires - it wasn't long ago when you could breed a horse that could run around 1.59 to 2.00 minute mark & have a place to race & win a couple - these days with the decline in weekend racing combined with how fast the young horses are running these days a lot of people I have spoken to are sick of breeding dog meat - harsh reality but that's how I see it, we all know the cost,time & heartache of breeding horses - so my answer to the original topic is, it is a case of not so much throwing loads of money around the place but maybe finding ways to increase the opportunities & avenues.

[Adaptor]

[QUOTE=Amlin;44600]There's a solution to Australia's trotting problems summed up in one paragraph in my opinion. Ironically, we had such a system in place going back 20 - 30 years, but it has been progressively pulled apart and destroyed over time.


I agree that the shrinking of opportunities at the grassroots level has seriously shrunk the access of the small time or hobby owner/trainer/driver..and breeder
The Canadian OSS Grassroots racing https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PIrWW6uUjbM

and the US Fair Circuit http://xwebapp.ustrotting.com/absolutenm/templates/article.aspx?
articleid=64181&zoneid=1 (http://xwebapp.ustrotting.com/absolutenm/templates/article.aspx?articleid=64181&zoneid=1)
are good examples bot of `what we have lost ...racing at Agricultural Shows and the Victorian Restricted meetings,...and what others have done to retain a broad base.

[Messenger]

[QUOTE=Amlin;44600]There's a solution to Australia's trotting problems summed up in one paragraph in my opinion. Ironically, we had such a system in place going back 20 - 30 years, but it has been progressively pulled apart and destroyed over time.


I agree that the shrinking of opportunities at the grassroots level has seriously shrunk the access of the small time or hobby owner/trainer/driver..and breeder
The Canadian OSS Grassroots racing https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PIrWW6uUjbM

and the US Fair Circuit http://xwebapp.ustrotting.com/absolutenm/templates/article.aspx?
articleid=64181&zoneid=1 (http://xwebapp.ustrotting.com/absolutenm/templates/article.aspx?articleid=64181&zoneid=1)
are good examples bot ofwhat we have lost ...racing at Agricultural Shows and the Victorian Restricted meetings,...and what others have done to retain a broad base.
I think Dan has been espousing this for as long as I have been on this board

[Richard prior]

Well there certainly seems to be enough evidence there with the Canadian Grassroots and also in Ohio, The Grassroots is the very backbone of this industry and for it to survive, The Grassroots must be healthy and encouraged, People will not continue to breed horses if there's no encouragement and I hate to use the term dog meat, But that's were a lot of horses are heading, I quite liked Cody's idea of weighted prizemoney but at the same time, There needs to be something for the little people to aim at and surely with all of the television coverage these days, TAB turnover would not be a problem, Hundreds of very good horses have been bred by small breeders and they are from the very Grassroots that I speak of and really, All horses must start somewhere and if good enough, Progress the through the ranks and compete at the top level for the bigger Prizemoney. I think that's it's a must for a few of the Executive's on the different boards to have some Grassroots experience and get out and listen to the people at this level, I don't like to point the finger at anyone in particular as this is a problem although the industry but the guy running the show at Menangle should know this better than anyone when he grew up on a property that bred horses at the very Grassroots and getting back to Cody and what Noel and James have touched on, Weighted prizemoney for the better horses does seem to have appeal but at the same time, Our industry needs these restricted meetings so the younger and inexperienced horses to try and make the progression to better racing, Here in NSW, The Country Cup days have a lot of appeal and usually have good crowds, There's no reason at all why the rest of the program could be run as a restricted meeting and I'm sure that the turnover at the TAB would still be healthy, There's a whole range of issues that need to be addressed for our great game to continue and having very healthy Grassroots is of the utmost importance and along with that, Correct programming for horses that have similar ability to compete against each other.

[Messenger]

I wonder whether 'all of the television coverage these days' is working for us Rich.
Let's face it we all have 'X' amount of hours to devote to racing.
I no longer watch racing on Sky - I hate the mix/continuous barrage
Although I have Foxtel, when I want to relax and enjoy some racing, nowadays I am finding myself turning on Ch78/68 (522 on Foxtel but only Standard Definition)
It is pretty much taking up my 'X' hrs quota. Consequently when it comes to the trots I am perusing the results and watching the replay of anything that looks interesting.
Of course I will fire up Sky to watch any major races live but I could see some VIC people thinking that they do not need to pay for Sky any more when they can get this for free (which means harness does not get a look in)
Maybe some will still watch it through Aps on their phones - I am not much of a phone person so I will leave it to others to discuss that one however I hardly think it could be termed 'entertainment'

I went into Stawell on Monday to go to the trots but never made it there. Maybe I am having a rest but I am not so sure. Even though I had taken the Ipad with me for between race entertainment I was not enthused about amusing myself for the 40mins between races. When you watch Ch78, they have interviews pre and post race with the trainers and post race with the jockeys. They do a thorough preview of all the runners with extensive mounting yard footage. They have replays (using different angles) and footage of relevant form races for coming races. They do feature stories and crosses to the newsroom etc etc.
I would not be surprised whether this is why crowds are down at the gallops too - you can get better entertainment/coverage from your couch.

In my submission to HRV I said that we need to be providing some of the above things at the track as not everybody is interested in interstate meetings to fill the void between races. It would be beyond our wildest expectations to have a trots channel the like of Ch78 but maybe we can do a few more things for patrons on track or via streaming like racing.com does (which is what Ch78 is). Let's have trotting.com.
If we cannot wangle this, let's at least have on track TV screens showing replays and a view of the parade ring and the warm ups (admittedly the last two you can achieve yourself by just getting off your arse and some tracks do have replay screens)

I think this is all relevant to this thread as more breeders/owners comes from more followers

[jackthepunter]

One of the big problems with HRV in the last 10 years or so is they turned their back on the country people(the backbone of the sport) by closing down country tracks and alienating entire communitys by not talking to and engaging with people, So a lot those one or two horse trainers/breeders have quit the sport, At first no one takes any notice until years later(eg- now) that the sport is struggling for foal numbers and everyone wonders why. In my memory, since hrv have been shamed into it by the audit, They have never had any, or barely any around the traps meetings with the participants like they have in the last month of so, So a lot of people feel like they don't have a voice or get listened to so they get fed up and leave the sport.

[DRUIDRACING]

I agree with Mark. Post # 2. i am in a similar situation no breeding this year Have 3 mares 1 2yo 2 3yo 1 4yo and a 6 yo. and a foal about to be born............$$$ almost gone. We have had a few join with us and be a part but when yo have to wait such a long time to possibly get to the races... i mean possibly (they cant wait that long) takes a long time. The commercial breeders cant afford to breed when sales prices are lower than the cost to produce......... I have some problems with a few of my horses so get the buzz back I have purchased going horses to keep the dream alive .........but that had a 2 year wait as well (injured when the horse arived but thats the chance we take. Prizemoney levels, grading, and handicapping has also reduced the number bred........no quick fix here either nothing suits all.

[Toohard]

Could be wrong as only half listening but heard ad on RSN this morning. Thoroughbreds.. don't recall stud or stallion but sure said pay nothing until your foal wins a $30k race.