Handicapping Farce

[Danno]

on the one hand, the Irish pacer, Meadowbranch DJ, was "good enough" to get a run in the Perth Interdominion and in the process cost someone else a start, now he is in John McCarthy's stable and about to embark on a Sydney campaign as a C1.!!!!?????


http://www.harness.org.au/news-article.cfm?news_id=29257


if someone would like to explain to me how that is not an absolute farce I would be very happy to hear the explanation.


Anyone who is going to have to compete with this horse in the lower grades is going to be entitled to feel dudded in my humble opinion.


Talk about double standards, this trumps anything I have ever seen anywhere on that front.

[Messenger]

You are spot on Dan but the essence of it is in your first paragraph - he was nowhere near good enough to be in the Inter and deprived a better horse a start

[Pena]

Talking about a farce and a horse living up to its name.


Race 4 at Newcastle on Thursday - Can't Explain it
http://www.harness.org.au/fields.cfm?mc=NR240316#4


Conditions: Cannot have an average time of better than 2.01 over last 6 starts, I calculate the average as 2.00.2. Or cannot have won more than $1000 in last 4 and has won over $7000. Last run on 5th March so has not beaten the grading system.


Surely this horse has to be scratched from the race as it is ineligible.

[Danno]

Talking about a farce and a horse living up to its name.


Race 4 at Newcastle on Thursday - Can't Explain it
http://www.harness.org.au/fields.cfm?mc=NR240316#4









Conditions: Cannot have an average time of better than 2.01 over last 6 starts, I calculate the average as 2.00.2. Or cannot have won more than $1000 in last 4 and has won over $7000. Last run on 5th March so has not beaten the grading system.


Surely this horse has to be scratched from the race as it is ineligible.




Can't Explain It would be spot on Jack!!

[gutwagon]

Have a look at the Ararat Cup field, can't work out those handicaps ?

[aussiebreno]

Some explaining to do with that Newcastle one.

Danno, you would have been happy with the stand starts getting a go at 11PM at Wagga last night? (Just stirring)

[p plater]

Talking about a farce and a horse living up to its name.


Race 4 at Newcastle on Thursday - Can't Explain it
http://www.harness.org.au/fields.cfm?mc=NR240316#4
Conditions: Cannot have an average time of better than 2.01 over last 6 starts, I calculate the average as 2.00.2. Or cannot have won more than $1000 in last 4 and has won over $7000. Last run on 5th March so has not beaten the grading system.


Surely this horse has to be scratched from the race as it is ineligible.

Jack,
Please don't forget these handicappers are "professionals". They are to "increase fields" "more turnover" and a evening out of fields.
They set the conditions of a race to meet the above objectives.
They have a full field.
They now have a $1.40 favorite.....so much turnover.
They could not use last 3 or 4 or 5 because official records for that horse shows
Avg Mile Rate Last 10 2:01.444
Avg Mile Rate Last 6 2:01.001
Avg Mile Rate Last 5 2:00.413
Avg Mile Rate Last 4 2:00.325
Avg Mile Rate Last 3 1:58.562

[p plater]

Just an update for those who have an interest in the results from the "professionals" grading decisions.
Can't Explain It finished 2nd in a mile rate of 1.55.2. Remember it was for horses that averaged over 2.01 in their last 6 starts.
Guess which race on the Newcastle program held the least on the NSW tote.. yep race 4. So much for increased turnover.

[Danno]

Some explaining to do with that Newcastle one.

Danno, you would have been happy with the stand starts getting a go at 11PM at Wagga last night? (Just stirring)


:p Was a great spectacle I thought Brenno, with all mobile racing the way races pan out is SSSOOO predictable its bloody BORING, that race was entertaining in my humble opinion.
Turnover wise they did their best to make sure it didn't do well by putting it on at that time. Just more evidence of the agenda HRNSW has to appease the TAB gods.


If there is a better explanation I'd love to hear it.


cheers,


Danno

[KTQ]

Have they ever re-drawn a race? We nominated one of ours for a $100k race this Friday for Westbred 3yo C&Gs. Preference based on horses classed 3C1+. All horses are classed minimum 3C1 but he drew second emergency. SECOND.

His form? 2-1-3-3-2-1 out of 6 starts. What drew ahead of him? A horse with form 8-2-5-7-8-1-2, one with 5-4-2-1-3-8-5-5, another with 4-8-2-1-5-11-4.

We are all fuming. :mad::mad::mad: Is there any reason he wouldn't get a start behind those horses?

[arlington]

Have they ever re-drawn a race? We nominated one of ours for a $100k race this Friday for Westbred 3yo C&Gs. Preference based on horses classed 3C1+. All horses are classed minimum 3C1 but he drew second emergency. SECOND.

His form? 2-1-3-3-2-1 out of 6 starts. What drew ahead of him? A horse with form 8-2-5-7-8-1-2, one with 5-4-2-1-3-8-5-5, another with 4-8-2-1-5-11-4.

We are all fuming. :mad::mad::mad: Is there any reason he wouldn't get a start behind those horses?


Was there an explanation Katie??? Looks like the same goes for the 1st emergency.:confused:

[KTQ]

Was there an explanation Katie??? Looks like the same goes for the 1st emergency.:confused:

Dad's calling the handicapper. They better have a good explanation. It's not just some $7k country race, this is a group 1. F**** sake

[arlington]

Dad's calling the handicapper. They better have a good explanation. It's not just some $7k country race, this is a group 1. F**** sake

Can see why you're f***uming.

[KTQ]

;) :D
Can see why you're f***uming.

[Fan of Jate]

Good luck with that. My calls to the handicappers in WA over similar issues have always fallen on deaf ears. They always come up with a reason why you are wrong and they are right.

[KTQ]

They can't arbitrarily select horses. There are rules. He's Royal Blue has better form than 2 other horses, therefore he should get a start and they should be the emergencies.

Clearly they made a mistake.

My god I am so annoyed. This kind of crap makes me want to forget about horses and divert my attention to some other hobby instead. Its not often you get one thats good enough to win a Group 1 and when you get the horse, they should get their deserved start.

[Messenger]

Just looked at it Katie and they have clearly selected the field on Lifetime Stakes.
On that criteria I am afraid that your Blue is a long last

[Messenger]

If they went on this season's racing only (it is a 3yo race after all) you nudge out the 5 horse by $1500

[arlington]

Just looked at it Katie and they have clearly selected the field on Lifetime Stakes.
On that criteria I am afraid that your Blue is a long last

I looked at that too Kev but doesn't mention stakes as a criteria in the original program from the HRA calendar, using http://www.harnessracingforum.com/showthread.php?7407-Search-Race-Conditions

Unless WA have a separate gazette but, pretty sure, if you go through the WA website you still end up at the HRA meeting programs/calendar.

Don't know what that means Katie.

[arlington]

From http://www.rwwa.com.au/home/documents/ind01/HR%20Handicapping.pdf

[Messenger]

It seems a $100k race will always be at the discretion of the selection panel.
Thanks for all that clarification work Wayne.

[Fan of Jate]

I could not find where lifetime $ was a condition of this race even going back to the original race requirements. the closest I could find to a reason was 3c1 of which there were a couple and the handicapper has used his discretion and has based it on lifetime $

[teecee]

This is probably not the right thread but currently I can't find the one I am looking for.
The Australian Handicapping system may yet raise its ugly head as ULTIMATE MACHETE heads to WA to plunder its 4yo riches. This after smashing the NZ record for 1950 metres in yesterday's NZ FFA beating Tiger Tara after sitting outside of him (TT).

Last year I remember Piccadily Princess being balloted from some of the feature mares races over there because of her "lowly handicap rating" even though a dual G! winner. She is on the plane back to put that right this year. I mention this as I wonder if same "Low handicap rating" may affect Ultimate Machete.
He is heading to Perth on Sunday chasing their 4yo riches with a rating of C3 M0. Again a dual G! winner.. Or will there be so few willing to take him on that his assessment will be irrelevant?

Cheers

[aussiebreno]

This is probably not the right thread but currently I can't find the one I am looking for.
The Australian Handicapping system may yet raise its ugly head as ULTIMATE MACHETE heads to WA to plunder its 4yo riches. This after smashing the NZ record for 1950 metres in yesterday's NZ FFA beating Tiger Tara after sitting outside of him (TT).

Last year I remember Piccadily Princess being balloted from some of the feature mares races over there because of her "lowly handicap rating" even though a dual G! winner. She is on the plane back to put that right this year. I mention this as I wonder if same "Low handicap rating" may affect Ultimate Machete.
He is heading to Perth on Sunday chasing their 4yo riches with a rating of C3 M0. Again a dual G! winner.. Or will there be so few willing to take him on that his assessment will be irrelevant?

Cheers
By my reckoning I have him a C6.
First two 3yo wins didn't affect open class C rating. When he had 3rd 3yo win beating Jacks Legend 16th December that made him C1. Two more wins in December made him C3 when he came to Australia originally. Three more wins since he went back to NZ makes him C6.
Regardless, the class rules work 99% of the time. You could put the average 3yos that won one or two 3yos straight into C1-C2 races but their race career would be shortened and thats not what anyone wants.
You could put the likes of Aztec Bromac, Lord Zin Zan, Allblack Stride, IAmBrightside, Tee Cee Bee Macray, Messini straight into the FFAs at 4 but it only means they are running more midfields earlier in their career, so owners are paying up for good horses but not getting much in return. Takes forever to find a good horse so why not let them enjoy it. Quicker the horse starts only running midfield the quicker their career ends so let them have a few extra wins along the way - thats the reward of being a good horse. Plus we get to see good horses race more often. Quicker you race them out of their grade and they running midfield more likely they are to be lost to local industry and retired/sold. If you change the rules for Ultimate Machete you are capturing that lot as well.

[Messenger]

Scary stuff. Early in his 4yo season he can sit in the death and run a Tk Rec to beat a seasoned 7yo like Tiger Tara
Awesome record and to think he has run 5 seconds, never beaten far, in some massive Gp1's

https://harness.hrnz.co.nz/gws/ws/r/infohorsews/wsd06x?Arg=hrnzg-Ptype&Arg=HorseStarts&Arg=hrnzg-HorseID&Arg=186483&Arg=hrnzg-PerformanceType&Arg=A&Arg=hrnzg-RaceType&Arg=O&Arg=hrnzg-DoSearch&Arg=FALSE