Tiered prizemoney in Victoria for new racing season

[Amlin]

Press release available today regarding prizemoney changes for next season - the Industry Advisory Council involved in this also in their early stages


http://www.harness.org.au/news-article.cfm?news_id=29294

[gutwagon]

To me this looks like it will make the rich get richer and the poor poorer. Seemed to be rushed through before the new board takes over ! Three times as many restricted races.

[aussiebreno]

Not saying its perfect but I like it. Only downside is a good horse being put in a $3500 race and having an easy kill. Gives horses running midfield collecting also run cheques a chance to get winners/place cheques. Rewards higher quality horses with higher prizemoney. Getting the right mix of meetings will be a bit of a juggling act as well.

[Messenger]

Any chance we will have less nights like tonight at Ballarat

Here are the odds for 6 of the winners
$1.04
$1.04
$1.20
$1.20
$1.30
$1.30

(Favourites had a good day at Maryborough too with 7wins and a second, but only 3 of them were odds on)

[Messenger]

We have 9 races for Melton's metro program tonight but the prizemoney total only comes to $110k
(Maryborough Cup on Sunday is no excuse - we are STRUGGLING)

[Showgrounds]

Think I expressed similar sentiment some months back but got howled down by higher authorities for my condemnation of the halving of stakemoney for the Victoria Cup.

[gutwagon]

We have more prizemoney this season than ever before ! They are clearly going for quantity over quality. Trying to run as many small $ races as possible even if they only have 6 runners. Horses will have to race more often and travel more to pay their way. I don't see how this will help in the long run !

[Messenger]

Yes Rick, that was the gist of the CEO's talk when he toured Vic - HRV do just as well out of $3500 races (bad luck trainers and owners)

[gutwagon]

If they don't start using that extra turnover to bring owners, breeders and trainers back to the industry they are just wasting their time. They are going to run out of horses very quickly !

[Messenger]

I received the following info from CEO David Martin (David will always reply to your email folks)

"Importantly, Victorian Trots are once again growing, with 5 months in a row now of double digit growth and individual horse numbers up approx. 6% for the last 6 months. We listened to the industry and have been making changes. Our financial performance will continue to improve and that will support our desire to add a bit more variety into our racing mix."

[David Martin]

Thanks for posting that Kevin. I've joined the Harness Racing Forum and will aim to make contributions from time to time.

[KTQ]

It's great to see you interacting with industry supporters David, through all of the various channels. :) While I'm from WA so much of what you talk about doesn't really affect our horses, it definitely gives me a feeling that you're thinking of the little guys

[David Martin]

Thanks Katie. The 'little guys' have been a significant focus for HRV in recent months. They play a really important role in the sport, and I know from my discussions with many of them how tough they're doing it. Initiatives like the $750 bonus for any horse winning a $3500 or $5000 race in September and October will hopefully helped a few, along with other races such as the 2.02 race (can only enter if your horse has an average time of 2.02 or worse for it's last 5 starts) or the other race whereby you can only enter if as a trainer you had 2 or less wins in the prior season. If you or others have ideas that we can consider, we'd love to hear them.

[KTQ]

I don't know what your advertising budget is like but I wonder whether getting a couple of young social media influencers along to a night or two will help raise awareness and the profile of the trots amongst younger audiences.

[Messenger]

I think having 2 meetings (a day and a night) whenever there is a Mildura meet is worth considering as IMO a Mildura meet is the equivalent of an interstate meet to many Vics - you just have to run your eyes down the Trainer column to see that they are a whole different group

http://www.harness.org.au/racing/fields/race-fields/?mc=ML211117

[Messenger]

Surprising/ridiculous to think a $7k C0 at Swan Hill tonight would end up with only 4 going around

http://www.harness.org.au/racing/fields/race-fields/?mc=FD191217&ms=vic#FDC19121705

[Messenger]

I still don't think the prizemoney for an M0 in Victoria is enough at $16k. We have some C0 races for $10k
I know for trainers and owners, it is about picking the most profitable path for your horse and therefore they may not be concerned but IMO a metro win should be a big deal

[Messenger]

$1,000 bonus on offer

http://www.harness.org.au/media-room/news-article/?news_id=36916

Personally I would rather see $3,500 meetings that are the sole meet for the day become $5,000 meets (eg Bendigo today)
To me, $3,500 races are almost an embarrassment when you consider the cost of living nowadays

[gutwagon]

$1,000 bonus on offer

http://www.harness.org.au/media-room/news-article/?news_id=36916

Personally I would rather see $3,500 meetings that are the sole meet for the day become $5,000 meets (eg Bendigo today)
To me, $3,500 races are almost an embarrassment when you consider the cost of living nowadays

Agreed Kevin but I can't see it happening .
If the 3.5k races are really for the battlers I would like them to all be selected from the bottom up and the horse with the most points being balloted out. This would give horses with poor form a chance and stop uneven races.

[David Martin]

$1,000 bonus on offer

http://www.harness.org.au/media-room/news-article/?news_id=36916

Personally I would rather see $3,500 meetings that are the sole meet for the day become $5,000 meets (eg Bendigo today)
To me, $3,500 races are almost an embarrassment when you consider the cost of living nowadays




Hi Kevin,


Whilst we did put a $750 bonus on these races in Sept/Oct last year to stimulate horse numbers for those months, we have to be mindful of not being seen to apply a bonus to circumvent HRAs limit of $3500 prizemoney for penalty-free races. Hence we decided rather than risk that perception, it was preferable to add a $1k bonus to the $5k races in May/June with approx 40 of those races conditioned for trainers with 25 or less wins in the prior year, (amongst other conditions aimed at avoiding uneven races).


In terms of $3500 races, as evident by the strong nominations at Bendigo last Sunday, there are a lot of people who do want to run in these races. There has been lengthy discussions in other social media forums about the need to retain these types of days.


Cheers, David

[aussiebreno]

Hi Kevin,


Whilst we did put a $750 bonus on these races in Sept/Oct last year to stimulate horse numbers for those months, we have to be mindful of not being seen to apply a bonus to circumvent HRAs limit of $3500 prizemoney for penalty-free races. Hence we decided rather than risk that perception, it was preferable to add a $1k bonus to the $5k races in May/June with approx 40 of those races conditioned for trainers with 25 or less wins in the prior year, (amongst other conditions aimed at avoiding uneven races).


In terms of $3500 races, as evident by the strong nominations at Bendigo last Sunday, there are a lot of people who do want to run in these races. There has been lengthy discussions in other social media forums about the need to retain these types of days.


Cheers, David
Sundays - a good chance for the hobby trainers who work full time during the week, who generally have lesser class horses, to race so the $3500 prizemoney seems like a good decision David!

[Messenger]

Sundays - a good chance for the hobby trainers who work full time during the week, who generally have lesser class horses, to race so the $3500 prizemoney seems like a good decision David!

I don't think we are having many hobby trainers win these races Brendan - especially the Monday at Melton $3,500 meets
My fear is that the 2nd level of pro trainers are being to forced to race for these lesser prizes as the big boys are dominating elsewhere and when you consider that these races sometimes attract as much turnover/income as higher class races, it does not seem much of a prize

[aussiebreno]

I don't think we are having many hobby trainers win these races Brendan - especially the Monday at Melton $3,500 meets
My fear is that the 2nd level of pro trainers are being to forced to race for these lesser prizes as the big boys are dominating elsewhere and when you consider that these races sometimes attract as much turnover/income as higher class races, it does not seem much of a prize
I do wonder why Victoria doesn't have a second Saturday night meeting like NSW does so maybe Sat night is the answer, but whether its Sat or Sun there does need to be racing on the weekend for the hobby trainers who work during the week. Unfortunately, as you point out, the bigger trainers still show up to these meetings but that can't really be helped. Maybe Sat night will stop a bit of that?

[Messenger]

I do wonder why Victoria doesn't have a second Saturday night meeting like NSW does so maybe Sat night is the answer, but whether its Sat or Sun there does need to be racing on the weekend for the hobby trainers who work during the week. Unfortunately, as you point out, the bigger trainers still show up to these meetings but that can't really be helped. Maybe Sat night will stop a bit of that?

Good point - I can see how a 2nd Saturday night meet would be far more likely to be ignored by the big boys. I imagine the authorities would however prefer to not double up as I would think it could hurt turnover.
I wonder whether there has ever been consideration given to having a meeting which excludes the big boys - I thought maybe the A grade / B grade trainer distinction but just about everybody seems to be an A grade trainer so I am not sure how you would do it

[Richard prior]

Very good point Brendan, I think Mildura would be an option for the second Saturday night meeting in Victoria, Keep a bit of distance between the meetings and the big guys would possibly avoid going to the 2nd meeting or go to one and not the other.

[arlington]

"Everyone seems to be an A Grade trainer" - pretty sure the criteria has changed recently in that it's now a little similar to the N Z set up. B Grade trainers can now also train up to 3 horses for outside clients with the permission of the stewards, where they couldn't train any previously.
However, unless the licencing fees were significantly different (now the same fee) and/or race/meeting programming suited, I couldn't see why people would relinquish their A Grade licence.
Brings in the silent part of the discussion, the lack of noms for the $7000 races. Will keep an eye out for some Sunday "25 or 2 wins and under" $7000 races.

[Messenger]

Very good point Brendan, I think Mildura would be an option for the second Saturday night meeting in Victoria, Keep a bit of distance between the meetings and the big guys would possibly avoid going to the 2nd meeting or go to one and not the other.

Although the trouble with Mildura is that apart from its once a year carnival (on now) - it is so far from anywhere else, that they have their own little comp between themselves. It is even 4hr+ with a float from 'nearby' Horsham

[Messenger]

Although my concern with $3,500 meets is about participants receiving adequate prizemoney for putting on the show
an astute reader friend has pointed out to me that "we have to supplement feature races and juvenile races from somewhere"
while summarizing my concern as "R races shouldn't be paid trials for the best horses in the big stables"

[arlington]

Although my concern with $3,500 meets is about participants receiving adequate prizemoney for putting on the show
an astute reader friend has pointed out to me that "we have to supplement feature races and juvenile races from somewhere"
while summarizing my concern as "R races shouldn't be paid trials for the best horses in the big stables"

HRV have conditioned a lot of the paid trials for the best horses in the big stables out of the $3500 races. Kudos there.

As for the concern with $3500 races being an inadequate prize money level, agreed, but they are non penalty( R penalty only) and that is an attraction for all participants if you don't need to travel far - the attraction for the professional Melton trainers to Melton R programs/races? Maybe they charge owners reduced rates for R races?

You also need to consider what D Martin has emphasised, HRV would be stretching it, at odds with HRA policy on increasing prize money levels for R, non penalty racing.

I would think, or would like to think, the recent announcement of the $1000 bonus for $5000 C races has been funded by the R races and not directed to funding feature races.
That $5000 tier is a big problem being a C penalty. Whether there could be more R, conditioned heats, leading to $7000 finals?

[David Martin]

HRV have conditioned a lot of the paid trials for the best horses in the big stables out of the $3500 races. Kudos there.

As for the concern with $3500 races being an inadequate prize money level, agreed, but they are non penalty( R penalty only) and that is an attraction for all participants if you don't need to travel far - the attraction for the professional Melton trainers to Melton R programs/races? Maybe they charge owners reduced rates for R races?

You also need to consider what D Martin has emphasised, HRV would be stretching it, at odds with HRA policy on increasing prize money levels for R, non penalty racing.

I would think, or would like to think, the recent announcement of the $1000 bonus for $5000 C races has been funded by the R races and not directed to funding feature races.
That $5000 tier is a big problem being a C penalty. Whether there could be more R, conditioned heats, leading to $7000 finals?


Thanks Wayne. The $1k bonus on $5k races in May/June, means that a win for these C penalty races will give prizemoney to winning connections similar to a $7k penalty race. Being $5k races, they are generally conditioned to give the lower class horses a run. We have also conditioned aprox 40 of these races to suit trainers who were less successful than others in the prior season (i.e. trainers with 2 or less wins and trainers with 25 or less wins).

[Messenger]

It would have been nice if the O'Keefe at Terang tonight could have been a $10k race. These smaller feature races are worthy of promotion

[Adaptor]

It would have been nice if the O'Keefe at Terang tonight could have been a $10k race. These smaller feature races are worthy of promotion

There's a $10,000 Trot from the mobile for the driving legends at Bendigo this Friday Night.

The seventh running of the Oxley Feed Mills Veteran Drivers Trot, a mobile T1,T2,T3 features

Brian Gath, Jim O'Sullivan, Lance Justice, Cliff Powell, Ginger Gleeson, Glen Conroy, Mark Hayes, David Jack, Peter Rothacker, Russell Thompson, Geoff Webster, Mark Hayes are the invitees, driving in their own well known colors.

Combined, the veterans have five Inter-Dominion victories: Jim O’Sullivan with two, Lance Justice, Brian Gath and Cliff Powell with one each.
The stars have between them captured three Hunter Cups, four Miracle Miles, a New Zealand Cup, Breeders Crowns, Oaks, Derbies, Country Cups and just about every other major Australasian race feature.
The combined total of winners driven by the ten competitors is more than 12,000, with Longlea veteran Brian Gath heading the group with more than 3300 wins, and Lance Justice not far behind with over 3000 wins,


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Past winners are:
2012 Keith Pratt
2013 Dick Lee
2014 Graeme Whittle
2015 Glenn Williams
2016 Brian Gath
2017 Russell Thompson

Acceptances are at 4:30 today, Monday.