Drivers jumping about and laying back in cart - detrimental to horses behind them?

[KTQ]

(Deleted)


What is with this trend of jumping about in the cart and leaning backwards?! It doesn't make your horse go faster (trust me, when I used to train my Dad's in fastwork, I'd pretend I was a US driver from one of the stallion videos we used to get mailed when I was a kid and jump about and try to lean as horizontal as possible and it did absolutely nothing to make my horse go faster). It just causes the horse behind you to lose ground as they baulk or not be able to get as close.

[Messenger]

I am with you Katie, I still think Gavin Lang is the best driver going around and he hardly moves, much less jump around. Chris Alford can get a bit animated at times and if my memory serves me correctly, Ted Demmler used to jump around. We need a driver to post and tell us what the 'jumpers' think they are achieving (forward momentum?). As for the leaning back like the Americans, I thought it may have stemmed from an alternative arm position - straight rather than bent.

ps Persist in having the stewards get back to YOU

[allanjg]

i seem to remember commenting about this style of driving some time ago on the forum and why some drivers use the laid back position ...for those of you who did not see my comments then, i will have another go now.the style was mastered first in america and not all drivers use it.the drivers do not use it just for fun as it can be very strenuous on the lower back,stomach and thigh muscles,so you might ask,why do it?the answer is to give your horse every inch of advantage....how you ask? the answer is by taking the weight off of the saddle.... physics...now do a test for your self,grab your sulky and pick it up by the quick hitch,now get someone to sit upright on the seat,notice the weight you feel on the shafts,now get the person sitting on the seat to lay back as far as he or she can,now notice the weight at the hitch,the sulky will tend to rise and possibly want to move forward.D Oliver mastered his own style by getting off the saddle and up further on the horses neck.i know that a lot of you would not have a sulky at hand but most of you would have wheel barrow...now try this,place a board about 4 or 5 ft long in the barrow facing forward,put say 2 bags of cement in the barrow on the the board,pick the barrow up and push or pull it.notice your effort .now get someone to move one of bags forward up the board,notice your effort now...physics...facts or bulltish,think about it.;)

[DRUIDRACING]

i believe the rules dont allow drivers to lay back in the sulky...........however since they have had international drivers who do so it seems to be allowed. is this true ?

[Danno]

Allan Gee, the wheel barrow is easier to lift, not easier to push or pull, the Physics argument is partially right but flawed because it doesn't take into account weight transfer and friction.
When you lift by placing the weight further back, you must also remember the weight hasn't disappeared...it has been transferred to the wheels in contact with the ground, which increases friction. Anything that increases friction increases the energy required to do a task.


So there IS a difference, but people will believe what they like because there is no defensible research/studies to date.


Bit like the argument that the steel American style carts (which are heavier) are faster than lighter stainless carts ( which also have an inbuilt lift factor) because their momentum "pushes" the horse when it gets tired....what made the horse tried?? pulling the heavier cart that's what! Energy was consumed building up the momentum!!


Getting to drivers laying out the back of the cart we still have rule that says a driver should not get outside the bounds of the cart and if I were Katie, I would have lodged an objection straight after the race, that was your opportunity to do something about it and would have stood a chance too in my opinion.




Now getting to drivers jumping around in the cart, there is a good reason why Gavin Lang is one of the absolute best, Greg Sugars is getting to that level as well. Go back to the Wheel barrow analogy, put 20 litres of water in your wheel barrow and see how you go pushing it when the water starts sloshing around!!


cheers,


Danno.

[Messenger]

Interesting stuff people

[KTQ]

Getting to drivers laying out the back of the cart we still have rule that says a driver should not get outside the bounds of the cart and if I were Katie, I would have lodged an objection straight after the race, that was your opportunity to do something about it and would have stood a chance too in my opinion.





cheers,


Danno.
Wish I could but I live in Canada and only get to watch replays. It was the first thing I noticed and I'm surprised the stewards didn't!

[strong persuader]

What race are we looking at here?

Danno is spot on, the weight sloshing about is more detrimental than the actual weight :)

[KTQ]

I watched a few races at the Meadowlands last night. Their style of racing is so different to ours. They spread right out and horses are so reluctant to face the breeze