Coming Season - surely we all have something to talk about?

[broco]

What has everyone retired?
Its coming up to a new season and everyone is silent, can't we inject a little life back into this forum?

I'll start the ball rolling don't all rush to answer.

New stud season coming up what foals does everyone have due?
New stallions coming out, who likes which ones?
Any other newbies doing the rumour mill rounds?
Who's good value and who looks overpriced?
Which of the young sires have yearlings who have broken in well and are showing early promise? Which ones seem to need a bit of time?

What does everyone think of the pepper tree stallions going to alabar?
My big question why on earth hasn't a savvy NSW studmaster jumped on the chance to headline a top proven stallion in the state, surely such a horse would be in huge demand for those wanting youngsters for the NSW bonus racing.
Or why don't one of the key stallion stations domicile one of their leading stallions in nsw, its an open opportunity to cash in on if you ask me.

Anyway that's a little food for thought, maybe it can actually start a conversation on here

[figgy1]

Yip it has been very quiet on this thread!! We have a Rock N Roll dance foal due this season, we weren't breeding this year but ended up buying a nice Betters Delight mare in foal.

We have a Betterthancheddar rising 2 gelding out of a Christian Cullen mare, he is broken in and has an amazing attitude and nature so time will tell with him, also an Art Offical rising 2 filly, an absolute natural pacer with again great attitude(was not commercial for sales so kept her) and now a rising 3 Sportswriter gelding who is very mentally mature and a real workman.

Not sending any mare to a stallion this season but I believe Roll With Joe book (nobody wanted him in his first season serves 14) may be full here in NZ and will be interesting to see Captaintreacherous book numbers.

Unfortunately for us a lot of the stallions are beyond our budget or if taking yearling to the sales are not commercial. I like Sportswriter (served 18 in first season nz) and think hes not bad value at $4500, I also like Always A Virgin but unfortunately neither of these are showing to be commercial prospects....

Even tho not breeding this season always look forward to reading the Sires Catalogue when it arrives!!

Interested to hear others experiences also....

[Messenger]

Wow I am really embarrassed to admit that I missed this thread - guilty of not expecting to see anything, other than on the Australia board
It has had a good number of views so I might have to move some of the threads on the Australia board to here where they belong (that will make TeeCee happy)

We have clearly lost dozens of regular posters, I know not all of them have given the game away, so maybe I am just one of the few that does not know where everybody talks harness nowadays (I cannot believe it would be twitter and facebook as they are the stuff of 1 word, 1 line posts)

Good stuff Monique - not only have you resurrected the breeding forum, you have convinced me that all Breeding related threads should go here in future
(TeeCee already knew ;))

[Mark Croatto]

Wow I am really embarrassed to admit that I missed this thread - guilty of not expecting to see anything, other than on the Australia board
It has had a good number of views so I might have to move some of the threads on the Australia board to here where they belong (that will make TeeCee happy)

We have clearly lost dozens of regular posters, I know not all of them have given the game away, so maybe I am just one of the few that does not know where everybody talks harness nowadays (I cannot believe it would be twitter and facebook as they are the stuff of 1 word, 1 line posts)

Hi Kevin

I applaud your efforts but unfortunately I think Twitter and Facebook is exactly where some previous posters have gone to. As you, I don't like that at all.

Regards

Mark

[Mark Croatto]

Pepper Tree Stallions

The movement of the Pepper Tree Stallions to Victoria, whilst not really being a problem for NSW breeders if they want to breed to them, does however create the feeling that from a breeding perspective the industry in not going forward in NSW. I have a major interest in five broodmares all of which are in foal to Victorian stallions. I have previously bred to Pepper Tree Stallions, but the appeal of paying on live foal swayed us to Empire last year, in particular the services to Somebeachsomewhere. Had we been required to pay up front for a discount, or on confirmation of pregnancy I think we more than likely would have gone to cheaper stallions, however the payment on live foal was too appealing for such a great stallion.

With respect to standing sires in NSW, I think the fact that in Victoria stallion nominators receive 5% of every $7,000 First Win bonus, in addition to the 5% of the winners cheque for all Vicbred heats and finals, is a big incentive to stand stallions in that state. That is not the case in NSW, where stallion nominators only receive 5% of the of the winners share of a Breeders Challenge race.

Regards

Mark

[arlington]

Sportswriter is looking good, Mitch Maguire winning the WA Golden Slipper in record time. Is $4500 this upcoming season's price?
The Safely Kept thread - Beecow's weanling/yearling photo and pedigree, by Sportswriter out of a Safely Kept - Jate Lobell mare, top work Kev! We'd have a similar breeding, Safely Kept/Classic Garry mare. The Abercrombie too far back to be of any influence? Interested to know what Beecow's filly's temperament and attitude is like?

With the new stud season just around the corner I'm looking forward to, hopefully, members like eliteblood returning to the forum.

Am also not a fan of twitter or facebook for serious discussion...not that I don't mind a bit of humour. Twitter seems a place for short sharp jabs to the kidneys.

As for the stallions leaving NSW, for me, being a Victorian (domiciled mares), it's more about the lack of competition but that might be a moot point due to demand of recent years. But then again with the syndication of stallions that could be a moot point too.

A convert to pay on live foal as well, we don't breed the numbers you're talking about Mark but that's the first question I ask even if it's not in the advertising material. I won't talk discounts as they can be different to what's advertised depending on individual business, but I'd rather forego a 10% discount and pay on live foal. As much as cash flow, for a reason, it leaves your options open if the mating hasn't resulted in success and as a small breeder I find it quite bliss full not having to dance around the fine print in service agreements regarding stallion change over etc.

No foals due this year unfortunately, definitely not through lack of trying. Who is the Bettors mare in foal to figgy1? And btw I just love that kiwi accent "yip".

[figgy1]

Hi Wayne,
Yeah us kiwis have a unique vocabulary......our Betters mare is in foal to A Rock N Roll Dance, we actually bought her from one of your fellow countryman, we have only had her a few months and we bought her in foal. Her first foal is a rising 2 year old so we thought we would give her a break this season and see what her progeny end up doing. She is only a young 6 year old so plenty of time....Are you going to breed this season?

[eliteblood]

Hi everyone, certainly very quite on the forum. Here is an update on my situation.

I have just recently sold Specialize and Socialize, which leaves me with :-

Localize (Christian Cullen - Sabilize), in foal to Art Major. Her foal will be a full sibling to Golden Goddess.
Heavenly Bread (Rock N Roll Heaven - Localize), in foal to Art Major. This filly was injured as a yearling and was never broken.
Ima Spicey Lombo (Pacific Fella - Sexy Lexy Whitby), in foal to Art Major. Group 1 winning mare, dam of 3 previous foals.
Weona Beach Girl (Jennas Beach Boy - Weona Miss), NIF. A nice mare who has been a heartbreaker at stud. From 6 foals, 4 have died, 1 injured. The other one, Sanna Cruza, was a winner last month.
Weona Miss Timed (Mach Three - Weona Beach Girl), in foal to Roll With Joe.

Localize, Heavenly Bread, Ima Spicey Lombo and possibly Weona Beach Girl will be bred to Art Major this year.
Weona Miss Timed will probably go back to Roll With Joe.

I agree with Mark that the movement of Pepper Tree stallions to Alabar this year is not that big a deal except that it can be interpreted as an indicator that the NSW breeding industry is dying. The decision was primarily a lifestyle decision by the Vandyke family looking for a more relaxed existence.

As a broodmare owner, I would like to be paying for service fees after the foal is born but I have found the difference between positive test service fees and live foal service fees has been too large to take up that option.

It is disappointing to hear that Richard may have turned his back on breeding. It can be a very tough gig.

[Beecow]

Interested to know what Beecow's filly's temperament and attitude is like?

I'm not rearing her myself, Wayne, and I haven't seen her for a few months but, according to the lady who handles her daily, she has no vices. She says the filly is intelligent and has a bit of an aristocratic air. However, how she responds to a training regimen remains to be seen. Apparently, she is generally co-operative but Kaye reckons she can be a bit stubborn if she decides she doesn't want to do something. It'll be interesting to see how she breaks in in about nine months.

[Messenger]

Hi Kevin

I applaud your efforts but unfortunately I think Twitter and Facebook is exactly where some previous posters have gone to. As you, I don't like that at all.

Regards

Mark

Hi Mark, just ventured onto the facebook pages for yesterday's venues Stawell and Bendigo plus had a look at HRV site.
Stawell kept updating after every race yesterday with winners pics and got a few comments but Bendigo and HRV seem VERY quiet.
Someone else will have to tell me about Twitter (no account) but I fear that interest in the industry is waning
(The gallops have several busy forums)

[arlington]

I'm not rearing her myself, Wayne, and I haven't seen her for a few months but, according to the lady who handles her daily, she has no vices. She says the filly is intelligent and has a bit of an aristocratic air. However, how she responds to a training regimen remains to be seen. Apparently, she is generally co-operative but Kaye reckons she can be a bit stubborn if she decides she doesn't want to do something. It'll be interesting to see how she breaks in in about nine months.

G'day Brian,

Thanks for letting us know. She sounds like a filly 'smiles' and looks like the match up is heading in the right direction. Aristocratic with intelligence, got to love that and I don't mind a bit of arrogance and aloofness. All the best with her.

[Messenger]

This thread is great reading.
Special thanks to Fioana, Trevor and Wayne for going to the trouble of sharing their interesting stories

[Messenger]

Wayne never mentioned that a few years later the broodmare of his girl produced a half sister to her who won a couple of Gp1's including a sprint lane victory in the Vicbred 2yoF final which inflicted Mindarie Priddy's first ever defeat

Good luck this season

[Mark Croatto]

Hi Mark, just ventured onto the facebook pages for yesterday's venues Stawell and Bendigo plus had a look at HRV site.
Stawell kept updating after every race yesterday with winners pics and got a few comments but Bendigo and HRV seem VERY quiet.
Someone else will have to tell me about Twitter (no account) but I fear that interest in the industry is waning
(The gallops have several busy forums)

Hi Kevin

While I hardly use Facebook for my self, and don't even have a personal Twitter account, I do us both forms of social media for the Goulburn Harness Racing Club (Goulburn Facebook (https://www.facebook.com/Goulburn-Paceway-464564493718992/) and Goulburn Twitter (https://twitter.com/GoulburnHarness)) . It's my experience that in NSW many of the industry participants are on Facebook and it is simply a case of befriending any one of them to see the activity that goes on. In Victoria it seems to me that Twitter is the more favoured form. If you happen to open up a Twitter account start following people like Brett Coffey, Shannon Nixon, Harvey Kaplan or Andy Gath and you will quickly see the extent of discussion that goes on there. As I said, I don't personally like it because you can't really elaborate your point, but you're doing a great job here and I think we can keep this form going. What I would say, is that if you are judging the interest in the industry on the basis of this forum, then you will quickly change your view if you were to jump into Twitter in particular.

Regards

Mark

[Gtrain]

Twitter is a great immediate forum for harness racing, particularly those interested in punting. Plenty of heated debate!! Marks list of people to follow is a great one. Chris Barsby and Garrick Knight are another couple that often post interesting information.
Personally I have a mare in foal to Betterthancheddar and another in to Mcardle this season. Very excited to see how the Cheddars hit the ground this season. My mare left her first winner this season and its flying at the moment so gives me some hope!
Have a couple of yearlings ready to come back in for their third prep at the moment and both have barely put a foot wrong. With foals hitting the ground, new stallions arriving, and rising 2yos starting to show their stuff, we're coming into my favourite part of the year.
Personally I'm not overly excited about any new stallions this year. For a Reason will (hopefully) draw a lot more attention this year. I remember viewing him up at Jamberoo as a yearling and I still have that photo saved in an old phone somewhere. He was incredible to look at. And his goals have hit the ground running. Unlucky to only have three winners with numerous place getters, some many times over!
The increase of stallions being available only by frozen semen leaves a bit of a sour taste in my mouth. Not only does it increase insemination costs, but means more of our money just flows out of our industry, overseas.

[Messenger]

Hi everyone, certainly very quite on the forum. Here is an update on my situation.

I have just recently sold Specialize and Socialize, which leaves me with :-

Localize (Christian Cullen - Sabilize), in foal to Art Major. Her foal will be a full sibling to Golden Goddess.
Heavenly Bread (Rock N Roll Heaven - Localize), in foal to Art Major. This filly was injured as a yearling and was never broken.
Ima Spicey Lombo (Pacific Fella - Sexy Lexy Whitby), in foal to Art Major. Group 1 winning mare, dam of 3 previous foals.
Weona Beach Girl (Jennas Beach Boy - Weona Miss), NIF. A nice mare who has been a heartbreaker at stud. From 6 foals, 4 have died, 1 injured. The other one, Sanna Cruza, was a winner last month.
Weona Miss Timed (Mach Three - Weona Beach Girl), in foal to Roll With Joe.

Localize, Heavenly Bread, Ima Spicey Lombo and possibly Weona Beach Girl will be bred to Art Major this year.
Weona Miss Timed will probably go back to Roll With Joe.

I agree with Mark that the movement of Pepper Tree stallions to Alabar this year is not that big a deal except that it can be interpreted as an indicator that the NSW breeding industry is dying. The decision was primarily a lifestyle decision by the Vandyke family looking for a more relaxed existence.

As a broodmare owner, I would like to be paying for service fees after the foal is born but I have found the difference between positive test service fees and live foal service fees has been too large to take up that option.

It is disappointing to hear that Richard may have turned his back on breeding. It can be a very tough gig.

Congratulations Trevor on another win to Sanna Cruza at Shep tonight - a $20 winner. GL with Weona Beach Girl this season

http://www.harness.org.au/meeting-results.cfm?mc=SP220716&ms=vic#SPC22071610

[eliteblood]

Yes, Sanna Cruza won well and looks like she will be quite a nice filly. If typical of the family she will get better and better as she gets older.
It is very pleasing as Weona Beach Girl is the only mare that we have left from Weona Jewel's family and, as mentioned yesterday, her breeding career has been horrific.

[Jimbob]

We have two due this season. Western Terror from a Armbro Operative mare and a Pet rock from a Fully Loaded mare which we leased as the owners could not afford/didn't want to to breed from her this time around. This Season we are hopeful of getting our trotting mare in foal to Skyvalley and Milady Operative going to Pet Rock again or A Rocknroll Dance.

[Messenger]

Hi Kevin

While I hardly use Facebook for my self, and don't even have a personal Twitter account, I do us both forms of social media for the Goulburn Harness Racing Club (Goulburn Facebook (https://www.facebook.com/Goulburn-Paceway-464564493718992/) and Goulburn Twitter (https://twitter.com/GoulburnHarness)) . It's my experience that in NSW many of the industry participants are on Facebook and it is simply a case of befriending any one of them to see the activity that goes on. In Victoria it seems to me that Twitter is the more favoured form. If you happen to open up a Twitter account start following people like Brett Coffey, Shannon Nixon, Harvey Kaplan or Andy Gath and you will quickly see the extent of discussion that goes on there. As I said, I don't personally like it because you can't really elaborate your point, but you're doing a great job here and I think we can keep this form going. What I would say, is that if you are judging the interest in the industry on the basis of this forum, then you will quickly change your view if you were to jump into Twitter in particular.

Regards

Mark

I see what you mean Mark. Bloody miserable day so parked in front of TV racing and Sky keep referring to Andy Gath's twitter!

[KTQ]

621
We have a Caribbean Blaster yearling that is gorgeous - big and strong and the absolute boss of the ones in with her. Always needs to be at the front and in your face. Out of a small (but well bred) bay mare in the Motu line. She's an odd colour, born grey and is now a grey/black kind of colour with a white foot and blaze so have no idea where she gets her colour from. With so many in a paddock together, it's hard to really focus on the others as she is always up front trying to get pats.

We have a bunch of well bred ones so hopefully we'll have some winners in amongst them.


CaptainTreacherous does look interesting based on his second dam being the mother of Worldly Beauty but I don't know if there's much else there breeding wise so maybe CaptainTreacherous and Worldly Beauty were flukes. Follow The Stars looks ok for a cheapie.

[KTQ]

I can't seem to find any information on Washington VC - his service fee, his family etc beyond that he stands at Bryleigh Stud but I can't find any information on that either. Can anyone direct me?

[eliteblood]

Washington VC stands at Bryleigh Stud in NZ but his semen has never been made available to Australian breeders as far as I am aware.

[eliteblood]

621
CaptainTreacherous does look interesting based on his second dam being the mother of Worldly Beauty but I don't know if there's much else there breeding wise so maybe CaptainTreacherous and Worldly Beauty were flukes.

They aren't flukes Katie. This is one of the greatest families in the stud book going back to Romola Hanover in the 1960's and including champions like Romeo Hanover, Romulus Hanover, Romalie Hanover through to the more modern day stars like Art Major, Real Artist, Worldly Beauty and Captaintreacherous. Look it up on Classic Families
http://classicfamilies.net/CF/Descendants.aspx?HorseID=10016918

[Messenger]

I love her Katie - she is a stunner

[KTQ]

I love her Katie - she is a stunner

That was her at a day old. You should see her now! :D *I love foals*

[KTQ]

The thing is, if you look at its immediate family (dam, granddam, great granddam) there aren't a whole lot of BIG winners. I liked Rock N Roll Heaven because he was a great horse, and his mum was a great horse, he has great siblings, his granddam threw great horses, and the great granddam had a lot of big winners. CaptainTreach has a couple of superstars... but immediately that's it. So I'd like to see how his first foals race before I'd send a mare to him (not that I have mares :( )

Breeding is interesting though because I don't know much at all about classic families. I'd be interested to learn more for sure!

Edit: I meant to reply to eliteblood but it didnt' work for some reason.

[Messenger]

The thing is, if you look at its immediate family (dam, granddam, great granddam) there aren't a whole lot of BIG winners. I liked Rock N Roll Heaven because he was a great horse, and his mum was a great horse, he has great siblings, his granddam threw great horses, and the great granddam had a lot of big winners. CaptainTreach has a couple of superstars... but immediately that's it. So I'd like to see how his first foals race before I'd send a mare to him (not that I have mares :( )

Breeding is interesting though because I don't know much at all about classic families. I'd be interested to learn more for sure!

Edit: I meant to reply to eliteblood but it didnt' work for some reason.

ClassicFamilies is better than a library full of harness books Katie

You seem to be missing something when you mention the Captain's great grandam

If you narrow down the search Trevor suggested and just do the descendants of Captain Treacherous's grandam Rodine Hanover

http://classicfamilies.net/CF/Descendants.aspx?HorseID=10016879

and open up all those little + boxes
There are 19 descendants that have won over $250k as well as multi millionaires
(Rock N Roll Heaven is a beauty but his grandam's descendants only show 8 over $250k winners)


One that should jump out at you from this arm of Captain Treacherous's family is our leading sire Art Major
Open up this pedigree link for Art Major

http://classicfamilies.net/horsedetails.aspx?HorseID=10034446

and open up this pedigree link for Captain Treacherous's dam Wordly Treasure

http://classicfamilies.net/HorseDetails.aspx?HorseID=10086578

They are ¾ siblings


There are no guarantees in breeding but U7 is a brilliant family

http://classicfamilies.net/cf/FamilyWinners.aspx?FamilyNumber=u7&SE=qTimeGroup&AD=ASC

and Captain Treacherous's arm is a beauty

[KTQ]

Washington VC stands at Bryleigh Stud in NZ but his semen has never been made available to Australian breeders as far as I am aware.

I wanted to find out information about his maternal line. Any idea where I could find it? I have googled his stud but they don't have a website it seems

[Messenger]

I wanted to find out information about his maternal line. Any idea where I could find it? I have googled his stud but they don't have a website it seems

ClassicFamilies of course Katie
This is the link to his 3rd dam's descendants. Just open up all the little + boxes

http://classicfamilies.net/HorseDetails.aspx?HorseID=10001226

This is the link to family U34

http://classicfamilies.net/CF/FamilyWinners.aspx?FamilyNumber=U34

Click on any of them and see where their Tail Line (a very handy tab) intersects with Washington's

[KTQ]

2 more days and the first babies will be born. It's exciting but I tell you now, sometimes I am glad I live in Canada and no longer have to hear the foaling alarm go off again.. and again.. and again.. and again.. FOR NO BLOODY REASON! I swear those mares know what's going on and hold their heads sideways deliberately

[KTQ]

Spoke to my Dad for Father's Day and he says ours aren't due til October. So much waiting! Not even sure which I'm most excited for. Maybe a potential full sibling to Three Bears or Half to Jasper Freeway and Eliza Grace? I LOVE FOALING SEASON! Watching them grow and wondering if any are going to be a champion and if there's a way to tell based on personality and looks. Is it the big strong boss up front or is it the weed in the back that gets bossed that'll be the next Blacks A Fake?

[Messenger]

This one gets my vote.