Race Fixing Arrests over Airborne Magic's Cobram win

[Messenger]

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/victoria/racefixing-arrests-at-biggest-meet-of-year-rock-harness-racing-victoria/news-story/a8e52fdbf21e9f742dfb4959040e300b

I was at a funeral today and was told about this by a trainer. I was told it was on the front page of the newspapers - hopefully I will not wake up tomorrow to find it so

People please remember we have to be very careful of posting heresay

[barney]

Have been givn to Friday to state why they shouldn't be suspended

[Messenger]

This is the race in question

http://www.harness.org.au/meeting-results.cfm?mc=CO220615&ms=vic&fromstate=vic#COC22061505

This is the stewards report that didn't seem concerned about the 27 Q3 or all the rubber-necking

http://www.harness.org.au/stewards-reports-detail.cfm?mc=CO220615

Airbournemagic is a full brother to Exciteusinthecity

[Messenger]

Interesting to note that DB Bartley is listed as the the trainer for the Cobram win but by the time of its next start the trainer is Amanda Turnbull - Nathan Jack's partner

[Danno]

Interesting to note that DB Bartley is listed as the the trainer for the Cobram win but by the time of its next start the trainer is Amanda Turnbull - Nathan Jack's partner



choice of words are noteworthy if the quote is accurate.


http://www.dailyliberal.com.au/story/4128175/turnbull-an-innocent-victim/

[Messenger]

choice of words are noteworthy if the quote is accurate.


http://www.dailyliberal.com.au/story/4128175/turnbull-an-innocent-victim/
Steve Turnbull says in the article


“She is an innocent victim in the whole show. She is so upset; she didn’t even go to the meeting [where the alleged race fixing occurred] and wasn’t down as the trainer. She is really stressed to think these allegations have come against her name, all they are at the moment are rumours.”


Maybe the fact that she was not down as the trainer could be the problem?

[Messenger]

Our own sites report


http://www.harnesslink.com/Australia/Race-fix-probe-sparks-harness-racing-arrestsRace-fix-probe-sparks-harness-racing-arrests

[Messenger]

Have been givn to Friday to state why they shouldn't be suspended


http://www.harnesslink.com/Australia/Harness-Racing-Victoria--HRV--Media-Statement---re-HRV--Police-Investigation

[thepacingman]

Interesting to note that DB Bartley is listed as the the trainer for the Cobram win but by the time of its next start the trainer is Amanda Turnbull - Nathan Jack's partner

Look at the human connections here. Might have something to do with the stable change.

David Bartley listed as trainer.
Mark Pitt was the driver. His partner Lisa Bartley is David's daughter.
She worked for the Turnbull/Jack stable when they were based at Shepparton.

[allanjg]

whether the race fixing is fact and the questioned parties are involved remains to be seen ,but it is very pleasing to see that the integrity department is on the ball...well done guys,keep up the good work.

[Njcstables]

whether the race fixing is fact and the questioned parties are involved remains to be seen ,but it is very pleasing to see that the integrity department is on the ball...well done guys,keep up the good work.

+1

[Messenger]

Have been givn to Friday to state why they shouldn't be suspended

They have been given an extension to Monday

http://www.harness.org.au/news-article.cfm?news_id=30866

[trish]

I could be wrong but reading this the cramps were charged & then stood down???? yea , no ???? Interesting to see what happens to Nathan Jack & Amanda Turnbull & the others (no one is charged) with this case, but no doubt the stewards & co will do the correct thing either way.


http://www.bendigoadvertiser.com.au/story/2857561/stewards-suspend-licences-of-greg-cramp-shayne-cramp/

[Messenger]

They have been given an extension to Monday

http://www.harness.org.au/news-article.cfm?news_id=30866

It is now Thursday and I have not seen an update anywhere.

NEWS ROOM needs to lift its game

Edit: Apologies, Messenger needs to improve his reading skills

[trish]

It is now Thursday and I have not seen an update anywhere.

NEWS ROOM needs to lift its game




Found this on the harness site.


http://www.harness.org.au/news-article.cfm?news_id=30916

[Messenger]

That is not about the police action Trish but trying to find where you found that (In the NEWS ROOM but not under Lead Stories but under Stewards Wrap)
I found

http://www.harness.org.au/news-article.cfm?news_id=30885

which included:
...... HRV Stewards advise that they will now give due consideration to such matters.
Any decision of the HRV Stewards in this regard is not expected to be made and announced prior to Thursday 8 September 2016.

[codywinnell]

That is not about the police action Trish but trying to find where you found that (In the NEWS ROOM but not under Lead Stories but under Stewards Wrap)
I found

http://www.harness.org.au/news-article.cfm?news_id=30885

which included:
...... HRV Stewards advise that they will now give due consideration to such matters.
Any decision of the HRV Stewards in this regard is not expected to be made and announced prior to Thursday 8 September 2016.


Kevin,

On Monday HRV Media released the following item in the 'News Room', under the Stewards Wrap column: http://www.harness.org.au/news-article.cfm?news_id=30885

As you'd know I'm sure HRV stewards' media releases have always been placed in the stewards' wrap section of the 'News Room'.

[Messenger]

Kevin,

On Monday HRV Media released the following item in the 'News Room', under the Stewards Wrap column: http://www.harness.org.au/news-article.cfm?news_id=30885

As you'd know I'm sure HRV stewards' media releases have always been placed in the stewards' wrap section of the 'News Room'.

I was fooled by the fact that I looked on the Vic site and if hover on the News Room at

http://www.hrv.org.au/news-room/

there are no categories and what really fooled me was the fact that there is a 'Peter Muir Inquiry' so I mistakenly expected to see the the bigger inquiry story there too

[codywinnell]

[QUOTE=Messenger;47712]I was fooled by the fact that I looked on the Vic site and if hover on the News Room at

http://www.hrv.org.au/news-room/


No worries Kevin. If you look further down to the day it was released you'll see the earlier stewards' media releases on that Victorian news feed on hrv.org.au

Harness.org.au breaks everything into categories, because obviously it is a national site, but all Vic news items are disseminated to the hrv.org.au news room chronologically from the harness.org.au newsroom where they are initially published.

[Messenger]

[QUOTE=Messenger;47712]I was fooled by the fact that I looked on the Vic site and if hover on the News Room at

http://www.hrv.org.au/news-room/


No worries Kevin. If you look further down to the day it was released you'll see the earlier stewards' media releases on that Victorian news feed on hrv.org.au

Harness.org.au breaks everything into categories, because obviously it is a national site, but all Vic news items are disseminated to the hrv.org.au news room chronologically from the harness.org.au newsroom where they are initially published.

You're right - I have been making a lot of mistakes lately
I do however wish there were not so many places that I have to keep up with
I think I will train myself to use the national site but remember to check the stewards wrap too

[codywinnell]

[QUOTE=codywinnell;47713]

You're right - I have been making a lot of mistakes lately
I do however wish there were not so many places that I have to keep up with
I think I will train myself to use the national site but remember to check the stewards wrap too

If you do want just the one feed, I'd encourage you to use hrv.org.au newsroom because it had what you were looking for, just a bit further down as the info is placed in there in chronological order.

[Messenger]

That is a fair point but I just prefer the look and content of the national page as my Internet Explorer home page. Harnesslink forum is of course my Google Chrome home page ;)

[Messenger]

"the HRV Stewards have directed the suspension of the licences of the four relevant participants, with immediate effect, for no longer than 3 months (should circumstances remain the same) while the investigation continues. Pursuant to AHRR 15(d), the relevant participants have also been excluded from attending racecourses in Victoria for no longer than 3 months (should circumstances remain the same) while the investigation continues"

http://www.harness.org.au/news-article.cfm?news_id=30927

No doubt there will be an appeal

[Adaptor]

Look at the human connections here. Might have something to do with the stable change.

David Bartley listed as trainer.
Mark Pitt was the driver. His partner Lisa Bartley is David's daughter.
She worked for the Turnbull/Jack stable when they were based at Shepparton.

In accordance with the provisions of AHRR 183, the HRV Stewards have directed the suspension of the licences of the four relevant participants, with immediate effect, for no longer than 3 months (should circumstances remain the same) while the investigation continues. Pursuant to AHRR 15(d), the relevant participants have also been excluded from attending racecourses in Victoria for no longer than 3 months (should circumstances remain the same) while the investigation continues.

[Messenger]

Now I know where you live Noel :D

[Messenger]

So immediate means immediate?
And Nathan Jack will not be driving at Bendigo tonight?

[Messenger]

Why is it that the HRV's media releases do not actually name the 'four relevant participants' ?

[p plater]

The RAD appeals will be interesting, with NO charges laid after the public arrests and No stewards action taken on the race itself, it appears to be a reaction situation.
I wonder what the Vic Racing Ministers office wants HRV to do next.
What happened to innocent until proven guilty.

[thepacingman]

Why is it that the HRV's media releases do not actually name the 'four relevant participants' ?
The $64 question. Will the four names be listed on the next weekly suspended drivers list?? Doesn't make sense that they are not named when most people know who they are anyway.

[thepacingman]

The RAD appeals will be interesting, with NO charges laid after the public arrests and No stewards action taken on the race itself, it appears to be a reaction situation.
I wonder what the Vic Racing Ministers office wants HRV to do next.
What happened to innocent until proven guilty.

I'll change your comment to "it IS a reaction situation." Once it got into the press, HRV had to be seen to be doing something or the media would have hounded them and the minister. Would not take much pressure from above for the stewards to act as Murray is a weak chief steward.

As for the RAD who knows how it will go as it's just a lucky dip there. Some of their decisions just defy logic and belief.

[Messenger]

IMO if you cannot name the parties you cannot suspend them
The HRV's suspended drivers list updated Sep 11 does not mention them
and the Bendigo Stewards report from Sep 9 has finally gone up and only says
"Due to driver Nathan Jack not attending the meeting the following driver changes were approved"

http://www.harness.org.au/stewards-reports-detail.cfm?mc=BN090916

The only up front source would appear to be HarnessWeb where there is 3 names on the Suspended Drivers list with a start date of Sep 9 and an end date Dec 9

[Njcstables]

IMO if you cannot name the parties you cannot suspend them
The HRV's suspended drivers list updated Sep 11 does not mention them
and the Bendigo Stewards report from Sep 9 has finally gone up and only says
"Due to driver Nathan Jack not attending the meeting the following driver changes were approved"

http://www.harness.org.au/stewards-reports-detail.cfm?mc=BN090916

The only up front source would appear to be HarnessWeb where there is 3names on the Suspended Drivers list with a start date of Sep 9 and an end date Dec 9

4 Kev

[Messenger]

Thanks Nathan - missed one

Edit: Just caught In The Gig and they too did not name the 4 participants

[Messenger]

Undoubtedly they are acting on legal advice to not reveal the names

(I'm the skinny one in the pic)

[Lenem]

http://www.harness.org.au/news/uploads/Appeal%20result%20140916.pdf

[Messenger]

For those not wanting to download - All appeals upheld

[thepacingman]

Geez, I had a good laugh at the positive spin HRV tried to put on their media statement. They would have been better off saying nothing. All they did was dig a deeper hole for themselves and are just trying to cover their own rear ends. This farce surely means that the chief stewards position is now untenable.

[Messenger]

http://www.harness.org.au/news-article.cfm?news_id=30972

The HRV media statement

[Lenem]

Geez, I had a good laugh at the positive spin HRV tried to put on their media statement. They would have been better off saying nothing. All they did was dig a deeper hole for themselves and are just trying to cover their own rear ends. This farce surely means that the chief stewards position is now untenable.

Getting a little ahead of yourself? At this stage prior to a hearing and the investigation in it's infancy there are insufficient grounds to suspend. Let's wait and see. I think you may well regret going the early crow!

[DRUIDRACING]

I know these guys have not been charged yet but if the public are unsure if people are trying to win or helping others, it makes for difficult punting - down goes the turnover......trust is gone

[allanjg]

39 charges have been made against n.j. resulting from investigations going back to early 2015.

[Messenger]

It is alleged that from 7 January 2015 until 23 October 2015 Mr Jack did associate with NSW disqualified person Jackson Painting for the purposes of harness racing, including allegations of communication about the chances of competing horses, race tactics, ownership decisions regarding horses and the purchase of veterinary substances

http://www.harnesslink.com/Australia/Nathan-Jack---39-charges-issued

[trish]

http://www.harness.org.au/news-article.cfm?news_id=31399




What do people think of this?

[Messenger]

http://www.harness.org.au/news-article.cfm?news_id=31399




What do people think of this?

I cannot accept two suspended sentences, guilty once you may get some leniency but with the second totally separate matter you have used up your warnings. On that second charge it is TOTALLY unacceptable to go lenient on guilt over charges relating to officialdom in this case being:

"inappropriate comments towards starter Graeme Morgan after the horse was a late scratching and in relation to behaving in an improper and intimidatory manner at the Stewards Inquiry that evening."

http://www.harness.org.au/news-article.cfm?news_id=31399

I am assuming the race fixing inquiry is a separate matter and is still being investigated?
Does anybody know if this is so?

[DRUIDRACING]

may set a precedence........light sentences for all.

[Danno]

http://www.harness.org.au/news-article.cfm?news_id=31778


Penalties handed out to all who attended this enquiry except a couple of people. Possibly assisting with the enquiry?

[aussiebreno]

http://www.harness.org.au/news-article.cfm?news_id=31778


Penalties handed out to all who attended this enquiry except a couple of people. Possibly assisting with the enquiry?
Jack and Turnbulls association with Painting seen them penalised by HRV already.

[Messenger]

Jack and Turnbulls association with Painting seen them penalised by HRV already.

and got off with suspended sentences
see Post 43 above

[Fan of Jate]

Kevin, I miss a few things too but lucky we have other observant members like Cody and Patricia to take up the slack. Nothing like having a good support cast.


To the matter at hand-I love it when the stewards of any state are doing their best to catch people breaking the rules that we are all supposed to abide by. I love it even more when they actually find someone guilty and suspend them. I personally think the penalties should be increased so that trainers/drivers etc will never think of doing it again.

[Danno]

Jack and Turnbulls association with Painting seen them penalised by HRV already.





Every now and then I get underestimated Brenno, we will see.............

[Messenger]

It is strange that that the report states:

"Mr Jackson Painting, Mr Nathan Jack, Ms Amanda Turnbull, Ms Ellen Bartley and Mrs Janet Painting all appeared at the Inquiry"

and then makes no mention of 2 of the parties

[aussiebreno]

Every now and then I get underestimated Brenno, we will see.............
Danno,

I wouldn't have the faintest if they are assisting or not with inquiry but it would be a bit of a double jeopardy situation to get penalised by HRNSW as well.

[Messenger]

This continued investigation of the SIIU culminated in Victoria Police today advising HRV that criminal charges have been issued against licensed participants in connection with the race conducted at Cobram.
With respect to the actions taken by Victoria Police today in the issuing of criminal charges against licensed participants, the HRV Stewards will now give consideration as to whether to invoke any of the provisions of Australian Harness Racing Rule (AHRR) 183 which provides:
Pending the outcome of an inquiry, investigation or objection, or where a person has been charged with an offence, the Stewards may direct one or more of the following –
that a horse shall not be nominated for or compete in a race;
that a driver shall not drive or otherwise take part in a race;
that the horses of certain connections shall not be nominated for or start in a race;
that a licence or any type of authority or permission be suspended
In accordance with established legal principles announced in precedent cases (such as NSW Court of Appeal matter of Day & McDowell v HRNSW) regarding the use of AHRR 183, the HRV Stewards have provided licensed participants Mr Nathan Jack, Ms Lisa Bartley, Mr Mark Pitt and Ms Amanda Turnbull until 5.00pm on Thursday, January 19, to make any submissions to the HRV Stewards as to whether any provisions of AHRR 183, such as the suspension of licences, are applied in the circumstances. The HRV Stewards acknowledge any such actions are serious measures and thus all available information needs to be considered.

http://www.harnesslink.com/Australia/Police-lay-charges-in-relation-to-arrests

[aussiebreno]

Whoever runs the Cobram Harness Racing Club facebook page has got to be kidding themselves. Post after post about Barley and Turnbull, including two yesterday.

[trish]

http://www.westernadvocate.com.au/story/4399806/family-will-fight/?cs=119

[Messenger]

http://www.harnesslink.com/Australia/Update---HRV-statement---Police-Investigation

"HRV advises that in response to requests from some of the legal representatives of the relevant individuals, the HRV Stewards have granted an extension of time to Mr Nathan Jack, Ms Amanda Turnbull, Ms Lisa Bartley and Mr Mark Pitt ..."

This would seem to be going the same way as the last attempt to suspend them before any trial/hearing - it is most unlikely to happen

[Messenger]

http://www.harnesslink.com/Australia/Update---Police-Investigation

Latest update - they are reviewing the accused's submissions

[trish]

Just a question in peoples opinions ......how similar is this to the cramps case???


Anyone can answer.

[Messenger]

Just a question in peoples opinions ......how similar is this to the cramps case???


Anyone can answer.

This was the Cramp's case

http://www.harness.org.au/news-article.cfm?news_id=27972

I don't think they appealed the interim suspension

[teecee]

http://www.harness.org.au/news-article.cfm?news_id=32256

"In accordance with Australian Harness Racing Rule (AHRR) 183, the HRV Stewards have today suspended the licences of Mr Nathan Jack, Ms Lisa Bartley, Mr Mark Pitt and Ms Amanda Turnbull with immediate effect.
In making this decision, the HRV stewards have considered all relevant information including the submissions provided on behalf of the participants as to why no action should be taken against the participants or their licences in the circumstances."

[trish]

http://www.harness.org.au/news-article.cfm?news_id=32263

2 more named

"As a result of the Harness Racing Victoria (HRV) Integrity Department investigation into Airbournemagic winning at Cobram on 22 June, 2015, HRV Stewards today invoked Australian Harness Racing Rule (AHRR) 183, ordering that neither Mr Brocq Robertson or Mr David Bartley conduct licensed activities or race any horses until the investigation is finalised."

Note: Apologies to Trish for deleting this post earlier (I thought it was the same link as teecee's)

[Diablo]

http://www.harness.org.au/news-article.cfm?news_id=32263

2 more named

"As a result of the Harness Racing Victoria (HRV) Integrity Department investigation into Airbournemagic winning at Cobram on 22 June, 2015, HRV Stewards today invoked Australian Harness Racing Rule (AHRR) 183, ordering that neither Mr Brocq Robertson or Mr David Bartley conduct licensed activities or race any horses until the investigation is finalised."

Note: Apologies to Trish for deleting this post earlier (I thought it was the same link as teecee's)

Guilty before any investigation has been concluded? Have a horse return a positive and still allowed to participate until the conclusion of a hearing. I really hope some of the parties involved are found innocent so they can sue for defamation.

[Messenger]

Guilty before any investigation has been concluded? Have a horse return a positive and still allowed to participate until the conclusion of a hearing. I really hope some of the parties involved are found innocent so they can sue for defamation.

I cannot agree Greg and 'the industry' certainly cannot afford to be sued. I don't think that is how legal systems work eg If you are remanded in custody but later found to be innocent, I don't think you can sue. (but maybe you can and it simply never makes the news)
Our industry is harmed by cheats, if the authorities err on the side of heavy-handedness, it is OK by me.
In relation to the latest two, a poster has pointed out to me that Brocq Robertson was also involved in the Cramp race fixing investigation too but of course he could be unlucky enough to keep popping up in the wrong place at the wrong time

http://www.harness.org.au/news/uploads/200714%20Mildura%20Report.pdf

[aussiebreno]

Guilty before any investigation has been concluded? Have a horse return a positive and still allowed to participate until the conclusion of a hearing. I really hope some of the parties involved are found innocent so they can sue for defamation.
183. Pending the outcome of an inquiry, investigation or objection, or where a person has been charged with an offence, the Stewards may direct one or more of the following -

(a) that a horse shall not be nominated for or compete in a race;

(b) that a driver shall not drive or otherwise take part in a race;

(c) that the horses of certain connections shall not be nominated for or start in a race;

(d) that a licence or any other type of authority or permission be suspended.


They aren't guilty - they are being stood down pending the outcome of the investigation (in which innocence or guilt will then be decided).

Provison 183A also covers the horse racing with a positive swab.

[thepacingman]

Now we get the chance to see about consistency.

When the first 4 were stood down they appealed the stand down and were successful.
http://www.harness.org.au/news/uploads/Appeal%20result%201409161.pdf (the last paragraph is very clear).

This latest two stood down have not been charged and we have the stewards ignoring the previous decision and standing them down. But they were quick to quote previous decisions (Day & McDowell (can't find this PDF)) when standing the four down after they were charged. Seems like the stewards are trying to have their cake and eat it too.

This whole saga seems now to just be going around in circles.

[teecee]

As this issue is now before the criminal courts system (sub judice) it is not appropriate to discuss here how the courts or police deal with this matter. Any comments here in regard to what may or may not be part of the court process, unsupported by official media releases, will be deleted.
Comments about how the Harness racing industry does or should handle this issue remain welcome so please comment on this issue with care.
Thank you

[Messenger]

http://www.harnesslink.com/Australia/Appeals-to-be-heard-next-week

Being the appeals to to suspend their licenses with immediate effect

[Messenger]

As expected the immediate effect suspensions have been successfully appealed

http://www.harnesslink.com/Australia/Racing-Appeals-Disciplinary-Board

As much as some might like them to stick, in this day and age I am not sure that rule 183(b) and 183(d) are worth having on the books

[aussiebreno]

How do the NRL get away with not registering Ben Barba?

[Messenger]

The NRL gave it to me - he must be a rugby player. Good luck explaining to TC the relevance to this thread :rolleyes:

[Andrewv123]

Nice post...

[Messenger]

This was released on Mar.24

These criminal charges have been adjourned to Shepparton Magistrates Court for a contested mention hearing on 11 April, 2017.

http://www.harness.org.au/news-article.cfm?news_id=33009

[trish]

These cases are today
H10132975 (https://dailylists.magistratesvic.com.au/EFAS/CaseCRI?CaseID=88307331)Victoria Police - Jasinowicz, A (36509)Jack, NathanCiu-SheppartonH10132942 (https://dailylists.magistratesvic.com.au/EFAS/CaseCRI?CaseID=88307333)Victoria Police - Jasinowicz, A (36509)Pitt, Mark RyanCiu-SheppartonH10132909 (https://dailylists.magistratesvic.com.au/EFAS/CaseCRI?CaseID=88307330)Victoria Police - Jasinowicz, A (36509)Bartley, Lisa CarolCiu-SheppartonH10132873 (https://dailylists.magistratesvic.com.au/EFAS/CaseCRI?CaseID=88307334)Victoria Police - Jasinowicz, A (36509)Turnbull, AmandaCiu-Shepparton.

[allanjg]

so what does it mean,"no plea taken" and plea " adjourned".are these just more delaying tactics?......

[trish]

I did see n jack is down to drive at cranbourne tonight.

[Messenger]

so what does it mean,"no plea taken" and plea " adjourned".are these just more delaying tactics?......

"This matter has also been booked in for a contested hearing commencing 27 November, 2017."

http://www.harnesslink.com/Australia/Media-Statement-Police-Investigation

As anybody would, they are obviously taking the time they require to prepare their case. We all know that court proceedings are never quick

[trish]

I read this in some report a while ago............... It is reasonable to presume that the matters will not resolve at least until late in 2018 and possibly even well into 2019.

[Fan of Jate]

http://www.harnesslink.com/Australia/Race-fixing-accused-faced-court

Cant see them getting 10 years for that.

[thepacingman]

The contested hearing starts on Monday morning at Shepparton Magistrates Court.

"A contested hearing is a formal court hearing, held when the parties do not agree on one or more issues. A judge or magistrate hears all the evidence from both sides, including witnesses who can be cross examined. The judge or magistrate will listen to the applicant first, followed by the respondent, and then makes a decision. Court rules of evidence and procedure will be followed."

[Messenger]

http://www.harnesslink.com/Australia/Betting-fix-alleged

If their defence is purely 'procedural' then IMO they will wear the stain of impropriety whether they are found guilty or innocent

Lawyers for the accused are set to object to a number of pieces of evidence, including the downloading of phone data seized, certain answers given to racing stewards and subsequent material Victoria Police obtained during a search warrant

http://www.harnesslink.com/Australia/Betting-fix-alleged

[Messenger]

WOW - the requirement of licensed harness people to answer stewards WILL NOT hold up in Court

http://news.sheppnews.com.au/2017/11/29/121712/evidence-objection

[Fan of Jate]

It's all happening. That may dramatically change any current enquiries and court proceedings around the land. It has set a precedent in law.

[thepacingman]

With HRV all about protecting the image, reckon they would have looked at the Echuca meeting last night through gritted teeth.
Three of the four, once court was adjourned must have got in the car and headed straight to Echuca for drives.
Rather ironic that Nathan Jack drove the first race winner. Mark Pitt also had a win and Lisa Bartley was unluckily beaten on a short priced favorite.
I know they've been driving but for this to happen now I must say I had a good chuckle to myself.

[DRUIDRACING]

joke....dream....wake me up am i hearing this !!

[Messenger]

joke....dream....wake me up am i hearing this !!

The 5th Amendment is live and well in the harness industry - at least in a court of law

ps There is also no 'self-regulation' in our ranks either as none of the accused seem to be missing out on drives

[Messenger]

I had an interesting email from someone who knows infinitely more about these matters than me, suggesting the police should not have been relying on evidence gathered by HRV

[aussiebreno]

I had an interesting email from someone who knows infinitely more about these matters than me, suggesting the police should not have been relying on evidence gathered by HRV
I would like to think and hope that police and prosecutors know what they can and can't use (but maybe not :confused: ) so must have their own reasons for using it surely?

[Messenger]

I think we will find they stuffed up this time

[Showgrounds]

I think the Cobram Four might have a bit in common with the proverbial Werribee ducks going by today's proceedings (from tomorrow's Herald Sun):

"A HARNESS racing identity was caught in secret police tapes discussing a race-fixing sting that allegedly netted his mates thousands of dollars.

Experienced trainer-driver Mark Pitt stands accused of corrupting the betting outcome of a race in Cobram in June 2015 after allegedly colluding with champion driver Nathan Jack to manipulate the racing position of their horses.

Fellow racing figures Amanda Turnbull and Lisa Bartley — both of whom were in relationships with the accused drivers — are also facing corruption charges.

All have pleaded not guilty.

The court heard on Wednesday that Mr Pitt admitted he rigged a race in which he won with horse Airbornemagic after overtaking Mr Jack’s horse Tooram Lad on the final straight during a race in Cobram.

Secret police recordings played during the Shepparton Magistrates’ Court hearing on Wednesday revealed Mr Pitt and Mr Jack discussing the alleged plot.

“(There is) no proof you or I fixed the race,” Mr Jack said during a phone call on August 23 last year played in court.

The recording was played to Mr Pitt during a police interview hours after the quartet were dramatically arrested at a race meet in Melton last year.

“He (Mr Jack) said he would lead and I would follow. He said let it run fast,” Mr Pitt told a police recording which was played to court.

Harness Racing Victoria’s integrity unit initiated an inquiry into the “Cobram Crew” after becoming suspicious of various elements of the race including betting patterns.

The night before the race betting odds on Airbornemagic plummeted from $32 to $4.60 after a series of bets were placed within hours of each other.

The Herald Sun has previously reported as much as $30,000 was won on the race by figures connected to participants.

The racing figures also stand accused of secretly training Airbornemagic at stables with better strength-building equipment.

Police allege the racehorse, owned by Ms Bartley’s father, had been rehoused at Mr Jack and Ms Turnbull’s stables and that HRV were not consulted.

Failure to do so can result in inflated betting odds.

During police interview, Ms Bartley said: “Dad isn’t as high a level trainer as Nathan and Amanda.”

“Dad only trains slow horses.”

The “Cobram Crew” were charged following a large-scale probe by the Victoria Police sporting integrity intelligence unit.

During the police interview played to the court, Mr Pitt admitted to tipping off his girlfriend, Ms Bartley.

Police allege she and Ms Turnbull each pocketed more than $2200 from the win.

Text messages exchanged between Mr Pitt and Ms Bartley, revealed in court, appear to show they were monitoring the odds on the horse leading up to the race.

Pitt wrote: “Metro (nickname for Airbornemagic) is at $15 now,” the court heard.

In another text Ms Turnbull asked, “Did you tell Nathan to bet for you?” to which Mr Pitt replied “yep”.

Pitt told police he denies collecting more than his $250 rider’s fee for the race.

The hearing continues."

All that is bad in the sport is in this report for the world to see. The needy and the greedy!

[Messenger]

Thanks for the details Trevor
Apologies from me for suggesting the police/prosecutors 'stuffed up' - they had more than just HRV evidence

[Messenger]

http://www.harnesslink.com/Australia/Court-hears-stablehand-told-of-harness-race-fixing

Another court report from the Herald Sun

[Showgrounds]

The younger generation - too lazy to talk face to face and too stupid to understand your phone will be your undoing when partaking In a scam.

These four will be nominated for the Australia Racing Hall of Shame, a shoe-in. Placed along side Rick Renzella and Haydn Haitana in the "most desperate for a dishonest quid" category.

[Messenger]

The younger generation - too lazy to talk face to face and too stupid to understand your phone will be your undoing when partaking In a scam.

These four will be nominated for the Australia Racing Hall of Shame, a shoe-in. Placed along side Rick Renzella and Haydn Haitana in the "most desperate for a dishonest quid" category.
I am not sure that we can tarnish all the young generation Trev - maybe just a few that left school early and joined the harness ranks

[Fan of Jate]

Thats a bit cruel Kev..:), but showgrounds is right, some of these people are not smart even though they can train and drive a winner with the best of them. Makes you wonder how many are are smart enough to NOT use their phones.

[Showgrounds]

Thats a bit cruel Kev..:), but showgrounds is right, some of these people are not smart even though they can train and drive a winner with the best of them. Makes you wonder how many are are smart enough to NOT use their phones.

I remember an old (very, and still active) at a training forum a couple of decades ago lamenting that young horsemen (women, persons, et al) cannot tack on a shoe but can hit the jugular vein with a needle blindfolded.

Similarly, Kev, not ALL of the younger generation can be tarred with the same brush as the Cobram Four. Nonetheless, it is hugely disappointing that our racing media, ever compliant with the industry as it shrinks in numbers, has gladly pumped the tyres and reputations of these four as models of the new generation of harness racing trainers and drivers. We are doomed if these models of modernity are not penalized for their greed and arrogant stupidity. Just reading the evidence put forward from Thursday's proceedings summarized it all - just tell the Police you don't remember! :mad:

[Danno]

From what I have read, if what I have read is correct, and I hope it is not.....if the recordings the cops have put forward as evidence are actually true then however old/young/tech savvy or otherwise the players are they will have to pay a hefty price for this, having said that one of the horses involved "Airbornemagic" has not been heard of for quite a while, I hope he is OK, and its funny when you look at his form that he did very little ( almost to the point of embarressment) in the starts before he had before the "Cobram Crew" took him in their care and very little after leaving their care, in a very brief career, but managed to win in 1.55 or thereabouts in his one and only "15 minutes of fame"....I sincerely hope the horse is OK.

[Greg Hando]

There is a good story if you google Sheparton news, it's about the Police interview with Mark Pitt I don't know how to put the link on here

[Fan of Jate]

From what I have read, if what I have read is correct, and I hope it is not.....if the recordings the cops have put forward as evidence are actually true then however old/young/tech savvy or otherwise the players are they will have to pay a hefty price for this, having said that one of the horses involved "Airbornemagic" has not been heard of for quite a while, I hope he is OK, and its funny when you look at his form that he did very little ( almost to the point of embarressment) in the starts before he had before the "Cobram Crew" took him in their care and very little after leaving their care, in a very brief career, but managed to win in 1.55 or thereabouts in his one and only "15 minutes of fame"....I sincerely hope the horse is OK.

Good summary of that one Danno

[thepacingman]

Court hears police interview
DECEMBER 06, 2017

An interview with Avenel harness racing driver Mark Pitt was shown in court yesterday, as a hearing involving four people accused of race fixing continued.

Mr Pitt, Lisa Bartley, Amanda Turnbull and Nathan Jack have pleaded not guilty to charges of engaging in, facilitating and possessing knowledge and/or information about conduct that corrupts a betting outcome.

Magistrate John Murphy viewed the interview with Mr Pitt, recorded at Melton Police Station on August 28, 2016.

In the interview, Mr Pitt spoke with detectives about how he first became involved in the industry and his relationship with his co-accused Lisa Bartley.

‘‘I don’t know much else about anything other than horses,’’ he said.

An investigation was launched into the tactics adopted during a harness race at Cobram on June 22, 2015.

Prosecutors allege the footage of race four at Cobram shows Nathan Jack took to the track with Tooram Lad and he allowed Airbournemagic, driven by Mr Pitt, which was close behind, to win.

When questioned about who he knew to be the trainer of Airbournemagic in 2015, Mr Pitt said he thought David Bartley was training it.

‘‘I think he might’ve been taking it to Mr Jack’s place to use a water walker (a therapeutic treading pool for horses),’’ he said.

When asked about his recollection of the race in question, Mr Pitt said he remembered the drive ‘‘vaguely’’.

‘‘I can’t really recall the day ... I ended up behind the leader and ended up winning a good race,’’ he said.

‘‘It seemed like we were travelling fairly fast, I was always behind the leader and made a run when the leader was dying out a fraction.’’

Mr Pitt told detectives he did not think it was surprising that Airbournemagic won, as it had been ‘‘pretty strong’’ during a previous race.

‘‘(David Bartley said) ‘Do your best and try and hold a forward position’, as close a position to the leader as I could,’’ he said.

‘‘(There was) nothing out of the ordinary in that race ... Tooram Lad got a bit tired late.’’

Mr Pitt denied discussing racing odds with anyone before or after the race, but did admit someone made mention to his partner Ms Bartley about winning money.

‘‘I can’t afford to be doing stuff like that, it affects my career and income ... I’m trying to make a living out of it,’’ he said.

On Monday, Mr Bartley did not give evidence in court with Magistrate Murphy deeming the consequences to be too severe.

Last week, the court heard evidence from betting agency employees about the pre-race betting patterns of the alleged fixed race.

Harness Racing Victoria evidence was also thrown out and not used during the hearing as it was found to be involuntarily obtained.

The hearing continues today.

[Showgrounds]

The prosecution's key evidence is the mobile phones. I will be interested to see how many mobile phones the police obtained. You would think, with 4 people charged, there will be 4 phones. I reckon there will be more.

I carry 2 mobiles but one is supplied with my job and is strictly work related. My grapevine tells me the, as yet, unnamed trainer arrested in the Bendigo area the other week on suspicion of "historic" race fixing charges, handed over one phone when asked. When hung upside down and shaken (metaphorically speaking) another 3 or 4 phones were obtained.

Given the relatively small amount of money (a couple of grand each) said to be won by the Cobram Four, it seems they underwent a lot of planning to win a small amount of money by today's standards. Interesting that Bet365 ad Ladbrokes disclosed that Airbornemagic had been backed from $35 to $3.60. One would think somebody got a fair bit more out of the win,

It's the use of multiple mobile phones that is my concern. It seems multiple phones are common, one for "official" use other (probably pre-paid) ones to talk with others about less savoury topics. Unfortunately, for the needy and the greedy, the cops are all over this and know that mobile phone records leave foot prints, not fingerprints. These 4 industry participants appear to have been wearing gumboots just to make the job a bit easier for the police.

[Fan of Jate]

Anyone who has watched a crime movie or the proliferation of CSI or similar shows in the last 15 years knows that any crim worth his/her salt has at least 2 phones and a couple of throw away ones as well, the gendarmes would surely know this. As Trevor indicated some people need to have two phones. The people concerned would have had friends in on the action maybe even the nasty type and they would not hesitate to plonk some big money on the horse. All betting outlets have to have records of bets laid. I do know one of those concerned and have found their attitude/behaviour regarding a racehorse to be above board in any communications. I would imagine the penalty would be harsh if found guilty.

[Beltane]

Case now into the third week:


http://www.sheppnews.com.au/2017/12/12/123743/allegations-denied

[Mighty Atom]

[QUOTE=Fan of Jate;53568]Thats a bit cruel Kev..:), but showgrounds is right, some of these people are not smart even though they can train and drive a winner with the best of them. Makes you wonder how many are are smart enough to NOT use their phones.[/QUOTE

Like many who choose a gambling vocation stupidity is not a handicap even though as you say Pat some of them can train and drive a winner.:o

[Showgrounds]

After reading the Shepp New's excellent update I think at least one of the four can be gainfully employed operating an excavator. Appears to be very skillful at digging a deep hole!

[KTQ]

811

[Messenger]

I have heard the term 'teflon Turnbulls'

But it is only fair that you have a 'cast iron' case to find someone guilty of anything

[DRUIDRACING]

well well well it may be time for me to walk away from this industry with all the corruption allegations, my love of my horses may just keep me here a little longer to finish their careers.

[Messenger]

HRV have issued a reminder about their Social media policy for participants

http://www.harness.org.au/media-room/news-article/?news_id=35739

There may be times that I edit posts for the poster's protection in light of this policy

http://www.hrv.org.au/integrity/stewards-industry-policies/social-media-policy-for-participants/

[Showgrounds]

HRV have issued a reminder about their Social media policy for participants

http://www.harness.org.au/media-room/news-article/?news_id=35739

There may be times that I edit posts for the poster's protection in light of this policy

http://www.hrv.org.au/integrity/stewards-industry-policies/social-media-policy-for-participants/

As Basil Fawlty was advised "Don't mention the war"

The official line could be if you have an opinion, best keep it to yourself. Going through old racebooks (that should have been pulped decades ago) I realized I have been a hands-on, money on the the table participant in the trots caper for 45 long years. And a sucked-in wannabe for a few years before that.

It's pretty difficult for me to reconcile that, having witnessed countless baffling decisions by industry leaders, red-hot rorts on and off the track and countless dubious incidents that have gone unnoticed (perhaps, some just un-publicized) by stewards that I am not allowed to publicly comment on some of these. Not without being summonsed by a please explain session issued by a faceless person.

Makes you wonder a bit on how the much-flaunted word "integrity" is interpreted by the custodians of our sport.

[Fan of Jate]

Only one thing for it Trevor, we will all have to enter our posts in the "positives only thread, no ifs or buts" thereby removing most of the opinion from posts. :)

Having said that there may be a few backhanders off the ball in this forum but generally pretty good robust discussion which should not be seen as improper or going against "policy" After all, that's why we have moderators "dont we" ?

[Messenger]

Turnbull, Pitt and Jack about to drive the 3 chances in Race 2 at Bendigo tonight - I wonder who will win?

http://www.harness.org.au/racing/fields/race-fields/?mc=BN141217&fromstate=vic#BNC14121705

[Fan of Jate]

Be fair to say that Amanda Turnbull stole the show tonight with her training efforts ( 3 winners) from about the same opportunities at Bendigo

[Messenger]

Be fair to say that Amanda Turnbull stole the show tonight with her training efforts ( 3 winners) from about the same opportunities at Bendigo

She did better than that Pat, she had 5 runners in 4 races and she achieved the ultimate by winning all 4 with a quinella

http://www.harness.org.au/racing/fields/race-fields/?mc=BN141217&fromstate=vic#BNC14121705

[Messenger]

Am I the only one that finds it disturbing that many trainers are happy to use the accused drivers in the interim?
I know one is innocent until proven guilty but there is some pretty damning evidence on public display that is doing our industry harm and there will no doubt be HRV charges still to come
I think it says something about many more in our industry - what they are willing to accept or not accept, and thus something about our industry itself

Along with a couple of other matters in the news - it actually makes me contemplate whether our industry is too seedy to warrant one's support

[Fan of Jate]

Cheers kev, I missed that last winner.

I basically agree with your thoughts on using drivers under suspicion or charged with an offence. Although I do think we have to take the general society procedures/rules with other employment where people have been charged such as the police who are usually suspended on full pay until a lawful decision is made. If we stopped them driving/training etc they would have to get some type of compensation or basic wage. Maybe I am on the wrong track with that one but worth thinking about.

[Messenger]

All our participants are basically self-employed.
Your reputation is as much your living as your skill, if a self-employed plumber mucks up or is even under suspicion of having done so then he would probably expect it could affect his/her livelihood - his mates and family would hopefully be there for support
It would seem that accused and numerous offenders that have returned from suspensions have lots of friends in our industry.
Some may see it as loyalty and I agree that best mates and friendly have to be there under just about any circumstance
My present frame of mind finds the size of the their network of friends worrying

I am clearly at odds with the RAD board as a friend has pointed out that decision on Feb 8 regarding the current matter before the court in Vic, included:

We are not satisfied that the need to protect the integrity of the industry outweighs the damage to the reputation and livelihood of these applicants. Indeed nor are we satisfied that the integrity of the industry will be harmed by the continued involvement of these applicants in the sport pending the outcome of charges.
Accordingly, the decision of the Stewards to suspend all the applicants is stayed.

[Messenger]

Latest HRV update on the matter

http://www.harness.org.au/media-room/news-article/?news_id=35786

"HRV is unable to make any further comment in relation to the matter."

Surely HRV will be stating before April whether charges are to be laid against Amanda Turnbull

[Showgrounds]

Fully understand HRV cannot legally make a comment. However, the seriousness of the charges would normally demand some kind of action (you would think?).

As I indicated the other day HRV has stated it will crush an ant that dares to question the games's integrity but there will be an invasion of ants if this matter is just allowed to linger.

[Danno]

It would appear, even before it's conclusion this case is asking more legal questions than can be answered by the rules as they stand, and legal argument being what it is today means no set of defined rules will be immune to attack.
Time for our administrators to clearly define who they will licence and who they will not. I know for an absolute fact there have been some steps towards making it difficult for some to gain or regain licences but there needs to be a line in the sand drawn that discludes as many people as possible that have track records that display their lack of respect for the prosperity of the game and all the other participants.

And some people and administrations will need to grow a spine or go, the time has come in my humble opinion, for the small percentage of grubs (and hanger-on desperates) in this game to be gone.

not any easy task even though the numbers are small, but the weeding out is entirely necessary otherwise I fear the game will disappear.

[DRUIDRACING]

Maybe karma has caught up ?

[Messenger]

I think Steven is referring to this news article in Stewards Wrap

http://www.harness.org.au/media-room/news-article/?news_id=35791

"Trainer Ms Amanda Turnbull has been advised that HRNSW will continue its investigation into this sample irregularity and an inquiry will be conducted in due course."

[Dot]

Next phase in proceedings against Nathan Jack, Mark Pitt and Lisa Bartley listed to be heard Wodonga Magistrates Court on Friday 7th of September

https://dailylists.magistratesvic.com.au/EFAS/CaseBrowse_Cases?CaseType=CRI&CourtID=14&HearingDate=07%20Sep%202018

NB although named in the title and during the course of this thread all charges were dropped against Amanda Turnbull

[Messenger]

Next phase in proceedings against Nathan Jack, Mark Pitt and Lisa Bartley listed to be heard Wodonga Magistrates Court on Friday 7th of September

https://dailylists.magistratesvic.com.au/EFAS/CaseBrowse_Cases?CaseType=CRI&CourtID=14&HearingDate=07%20Sep%202018

NB although named in the title and during the course of this thread all charges were dropped against Amanda Turnbull

That is correct Dot (see post 105 pg 11 ) but the thread title was true at the time / is still true, although they plus Mark Pitt and Lisa Bartley were all later charged before the charges against AT were dropped

[Showgrounds]

And they will have the whole Court to themselves next Friday https://dailylists.magistratesvic.com.au/EFAS/CaseBrowse_Cases?CaseType=CRI&CourtID=14&HearingDate=07%20Sep%202018

Will be interesting to see what the media makes of the proceedings.

[Dot]

That is correct Dot (see post 105 pg 11 ) but the thread title was true at the time / is still true, although they plus Mark Pitt and Lisa Bartley were all later charged before the charges against AT were dropped

Agreed Kev just mentioned it for those who may not have read the entire thread or followed proceedings and wondered what was or had occurred in connection with Amanda Turnbull.

[Messenger]

Agreed Kev just mentioned it for those who may not have read the entire thread or followed proceedings and wondered what was or had occurred in connection with Amanda Turnbull.

I understood that and appreciated it Dot - I was just making it super clear to others

[thepacingman]

Anyone know why the move to Wodonga Court after all the earlier hearings were in Shepparton.

[Showgrounds]

Anyone know why the move to Wodonga Court after all the earlier hearings were in Shepparton.

52 cases scheduled for Shepparton next Friday; the three at Wodonga are contests so they have the whole court from the day. Shepparton will be tied up with mentions, not trials.

[Dot]

https://www.sheppnews.com.au/@news/2018/09/07/227026/three-found-guilty-in-harness-race-fixing-case?amp=1

Nathan Jack has been convicted and fined $20,000.

Mark Pitt has been convicted and fined $15,000.

Lisa Bartley has not been convicted and fined $5000.

Nathan Jack ‘did engage in conduct that corrupted a betting outcome, by unofficially training the horse Airbournemagic without declaring this to Harness Racing Victoria, by unofficially housing the horse Airbournemagic at his and Amanda Turnbull’s stables without declaring this to Harness Racing Victoria, by keeping Airbournemagic's registered trainer and stables listed as David Bartley, there knowingly manipulating and inflating greater regulated betting odds with regulated betting agencies regarding race 4 at Cobram on 22 June 2015.’

Mark Pitt ‘did engage in conduct that corrupt a betting outcome, by engaging in a deliberate set of activities with Nathan Jack to manipulate race 4 at Cobram on 22 June 2015. Namely, colluding with Nathan Jack and agreeing to run a fast paced race on his horse Airbournemagic, while following closely behind Nathan Jack, by manipulating the field positions of horses and overtaking Nathan Jack in the final straight to win the race.’

Lisa Bartley ‘did engage in conduct that corrupted a betting outcome, by u-officially training the horse Airbournemagic in conjunction with Nathan Jack without declaring this to Harness Racing Victoria, but assisting the in rehousing of horse Airbournemagic at the stables of Nathan jack and Amanda Turnbull without declaring this to Harness Racing Victoria, by keeping Abirbournemagic’s registered trainer and stables listed as David Bartley, therefore knowingly manipulating and inflating greater regulated betting odds with regulated betting agencies regarding race 4 at Cobram on 22 June 2015.’

[Diablo]

https://www.sheppnews.com.au/@news/2018/09/07/227026/three-found-guilty-in-harness-race-fixing-case?amp=1

So, now there has been a conviction, should there be Civil cases against this lot for people that lost money on the race in question? Surely, punters that lost money in that race can't be expected to just have to cop it on the chin. What about the confidence lost in betting in other races? One gets the feeling that in 10 -20 years there will be no harness racing game in most States of Australia. South Australia is a poor product and Queensland isn't that far behind. NSW is a very poor cousin of Victoria and WA seems to be coping alright at the moment.

[Messenger]

For those who missed it:

"In light of the parties being found guilty Mr Jack, Mr Pitt and Ms Bartley have had all harness racing licences suspended. Horses owned by them are prevented from racing or trialling and all three have been excluded from attending any Victorian racecourse. These restrictions were imposed immediately pending submissions being provided as to why these embargoes should not remain in place until the completion of a HRV investigation.

A final decision with respect to these embargoes is expected to be announced by the HRV Integrity Department by 5pm on 19 September 2018."

https://www.thetrots.com.au/news/articles/participants-suspended-after-court-rulings/

[Messenger]

"Parties were provided with the opportunity to provide submissions to Stewards by 5pm on 17 September 2018, as to why these restrictions should not remain in place pending the completion of the Stewards investigation. Following requests from the parties legal counsels Stewards have allowed an extension for the lodging of submissions, with them now due by 5pm on 20 September 2018."

http://www.harness.org.au/media-room/news-article/?news_id=38305

[Messenger]

Still no update on whether the interim suspension stays in place. They only had until 5pm yesterday to make submissions against - maybe they did and we have to wait on a decision?

[Messenger]

http://www.harness.org.au/media-room/news-article/?news_id=38370

Suspension stays in place but they have until October 1 to appeal this decision

[Messenger]

All three have appealed the decision to suspend their licenses and Bartley and Pitt have applied for a stay of proceedings. A hearing date to be determined

http://www.harness.org.au/media-room/news-article/?news_id=38404

[Messenger]

Bartley and Pitt's stays extended until Nov 9 when the appeals against their interim suspensions (Rule 183) are heard
The judge notes that now that they are appealing the Magistrate's Court to the County Court - the Magistrate's Court decision is set aside (it is a complete rehearing and as such they are in the interim not guilty again)

Though in one sense, it is correct to say, they are presently convicted, it is quite
wrong to say, considering the rules by which appeals are conducted to the County
Court of Victoria from the Magistrates Court, that the conviction in the Magistrate
Court can survive. It does not. It is set aside. As long as the parties prosecute the
appeal, it is mandatory that the decision in the magistrate’s court must be set aside.

http://www.harness.org.au/NEWS/news2/uploads/Media%20Release%20-%2012%20October%202018%20-%20Stay%20Application.pdf

It sounds to me that they will have their appeal against the interim suspension succeed too on this basis and this 2015 affair will be in limbo once again until after the County Court appeal or HRV charges them with something and finds them guilty of something (probably not likely while the matter is before the courts)

[Beltane]

Shouldn't this thread be renamed as all charges against Amanda Turnbull were dismissed back in December 2017?

[Messenger]

Shouldn't this thread be renamed as all charges against Amanda Turnbull were dismissed back in December 2017?

It could maybe be split but then relevant posts/info are then separated and regardless the title is actually still correct - will think on it

[Messenger]

Nathan Jack has now also applied for and received a stay

http://www.harness.org.au/NEWS/news2/uploads/Media%20Release%20-%2012%20October%202018%20-%20Stay%20Application%20-%20N%20Jack.pdf

[Danno]

At what bloody stage do people understand the ramifications of their actions on the entire game/industry, fair dinkum, what do their best friends say to them about this?? "even though you have "plead" guilty to this, you are doing OK?..It's not your fault?.."

They will get a medal for turning up and trying next, trouble is no body knows what they trying to do except themselves.

[Messenger]

And the 'mud' gets used against us Dan. There is plenty of mud that can be thrown at the gallops too but instead they are loved by the media. It is so bloody sad that some do not see what they are doing to the industry - holding it back. For all the threads we have on Big Ideas, if harness produce any it will be interesting to see how much dirt is thrown when we try to promote them - so far I think the Inter developments look promising, fingers crossed.

In another thread, Katie was talking about the Everest in comparison to The Victoria Cup on Saturday. We do not have a media presence - I am certain not 1% of Victorians would know what the Victoria Cup is (much less the whole of Australia), let alone know that it was on at Melton last Saturday. If you were to retrospectively go out and survey Victorians and ask them "What event was held in Melton last Saturday" you would not find 1% knew even if you asked "What race was held in Melton last Saturday"

I won't have a bar of our Integrity Officers once again applauding Shayne Cramp in this month's Integrity Matters - only a fool would not show remorse after being caught. If you want to impress this reader - find me the story of a participant that has never been rubbed out for anything serious and let them tell us how/why they have avoided temptation.

I had a trainer pm me recently and lament the choice/records of some of the trainers we have as mentors nowadays - he had loads of ammunition

[KTQ]

Like someone said on Twitter, trainers shouldnt put them on their horses. If you do, you're as bad as they are

[Messenger]

With their revised licensing policy it would seem as though HRV would have a lot more power eg

1.1. Section 45 of the Racing Act 1958 allows the Board of Harness
Racing Victoria (HRV) to, amongst other things, register, refuse to
register or deregister any harness club, horse, owner, trainer, driver
or rider in accordance with the rules of HRV (Rules).
1.2. Part 4 of the Rules relates to licensing of participants by HRV.
1.3. HRV may by licence regulate any activity connected with the
harness racing industry [Rule 90(1)] and may require such
documentation, information or fees as it determines to accompany
any application for a licence [Rule 90(2)].
1.4. HRV may grant a licence for such period and upon such terms and
conditions as it thinks fit, and may refuse a licence without assigning
any reason whatsoever [Rules 90(4) & (5)].
1.5. HRV or the Stewards may vary the type, grade or class of a licence
held by a person [Rule 90(7)].
1.6. Ultimately, the grant or otherwise of a licence is at the discretion of HRV

10.2. HRV may determine that a licensed person no longer meets the
specific eligibility criteria or requirements applicable to the category of
licence or registration held by the person, including the Suitability
Criteria.
10.3. Given it is a condition of registration that a participant continues to
meet the Suitability Criteria while licensed, a consequence of a
determination by HRV that a person no longer meets the Suitability
Criteria is that the person's licence automatically lapses, and the
person becomes deregistered, until such time as the applicant is able
to demonstrate to HRV, in its sole discretion, that he or she meets
the Suitability Criteria.


http://www.harness.org.au/media-room/news-article?news_id=38620

[Messenger]

With this new policy, some might consider Nathan Jack and Mark Pitt very fortunate to be driving winners on Cranbourne Cup night

[gutwagon]

Will all be useless if VCAT just overturn the decisions ! Will be interesting to see what happens when the new policy kicks in on 1 December. I can think of a few people I would be kicking out .

[Messenger]

I think VCAT can now only rule on penalty not verdict - if the verdict is No license, I cannot see VCAT being able to alter that penalty

[gutwagon]

10.8.
Decisions of HRV which relate to occupational racing licences, as
that term is defined
in Part IIIC of the
Racing Act 1958
,
including a
decision to refuse an application for a licence or a decision to revoke
such a licence,
may be reviewed by the Victorian Civil and
Administrative Tribunal (
VCAT
).

This part could make it all useless. VCAT doesn't like HRV having the final say.

[Messenger]

I see what you mean

[Danno]

The ridiculous aspect of all of this is that in the "old days" guilty or not they would have been found so ( in my humble opinion, based on the race footage alone) given a holiday of 6 to 12 months and by now it would all be history.

I don't know what the answer is, but it is giving me a major dose that this is being dragged out time and time again, providing unnecessary opportunities to others to bag our game.

[djgood]

maybe its time for contracts instead of licences ,- if you are found guilty of .... then your barred for 12 months Etc.
or maybe the U.S way where jurisdictions have not let people of certain reputation race on their tracks ,
it be good to see NSW say we will not allow the 3 people found guilty in this case are not allowed to race permanently , unless cleared of all charges

[Messenger]

The leading stable in Vic still don't have a problem using Mark Pitt - a treble for them tonight

http://www.harness.org.au/racing/fields/race-fields/?mc=BN091118

[Showgrounds]

Just gotta feel that the three of them are rubbin' our noses in it every time the have a win.

[Messenger]

We should know next Friday what RAD's verdict is on HRV's decision to suspend the three

http://www.harness.org.au/media-room/news-article/?news_id=38729

ps Once again, I ask why this cannot be found on the Vic thetrots.com = Looks like a cover up of anything other than positive news

[Dot]

Appeal dismissed. Suspensions reinstated from midnight 23/11.

In essence the convictions from the magistrates court stand until the case goes to the county court and are then set aside. County Court won’t hear the case until Jan 2020 at the earliest. Interests of the industry placed ahead of the interests of the individuals.

https://www.harness.org.au/NEWS/news2/uploads/MR16112018A.pdf

[Messenger]

The full decision is a long but interesting read even if some might say obvious

[gutwagon]

I bet VCAT lets them train/drive until the court case is heard !

[Messenger]

As I once posted in the Positives thread:

I read in the Harness Racer that

Matters put to VCAT will be limited to consideration of penalty, and not merit (i.e. VCAT will not re-consider if the RADB made the right decison in terms of guilty/not guilty)

I struggle to see how VCAT can overturn the decision if the above is a true description of their power

[gutwagon]

They will be appealing the severity of the penalty , it will be over 12 months until the court case. Almost certain VCAT will let them continue if the past is anything to go by.

[Messenger]

That is what I don't get - there is no specific penalty to appeal - they are suspended pending the outcome of an inquiry. If VCAT are not allowed to change the guilty decision - only rule on severity, surely the best they can do for them is to put a limit of say 6 months after which the 183 suspension lapses

[gutwagon]

Neither HRV or the RAD can tell VCAT what they can or cant rule on. I think it would require parliament to change laws for that to happen. VCAT can overturn anything the others do at this stage. This is ruining integrity in our sport.

[Messenger]

Plenty of trainers are 'flexible' when it comes to integrity - Nathan Jack was on 4 favourites at Kilmore tonight

https://www.harness.org.au/racing/fields/race-fields/?mc=KI201118

[Showgrounds]

Umm, what am I missing> How come this guy is still driving?

[Messenger]

Suspensions don't start until the 24th Trev

[Showgrounds]

Ah!

Only in Victoria can you instantly lose your (car) driver's license instantly for going a bit too quick or having three quick pots. Rig a race result, you can string out the inevitable for a couple of years.

[gutwagon]

Showgrounds, it happens in every state !

[Showgrounds]

Minor civil incursions are dealt with promptly. The case in question has been delayed, adjourned, appealed and appealed again for over two years. It is disgracefully long time; the industry needs to move on and the Cobram Three need to get on with whatever their next chosen careers will be.

It's amazing who turns up at the traffic lights, squeegee in hand!

[Showgrounds]

Ho, hum! Here we go again:

VCAT Notice of Stay Hearing tomorrow
22 November 2018

Harness Racing Victoria (HRV) has been advised that Mr Nathan Jack, Mr Mark Pitt and Ms Lisa Bartley have applied for a Notice of Stay hearing at the Victorian Civil and Administrative Tribunal.

The hearing will be heard tomorrow.

Mr Jack, Mr Pitt and Ms Bartley are appealing against the Harness Racing Victoria Racing Appeals and Disciplinary (RAD) Board decision to suspend their licences (handed down on November 16).

[Messenger]

https://www.harness.org.au/media-room/news-article/?news_id=38858

The three's application for review was only part heard and was to resume today (29/11) - the suspensions have remained in place until VCAT makes a decision

[gutwagon]

Lets hope the judge doesn't give a decision until after the ID18 final ! Better yet I think he should take the xmas break to think about it !

[Messenger]

Better still VCAT dismissed the appeal and

all licenses held by Lisa Bartley, Nathan Jack and Mark Pitt remain suspended; any horses owned or trained by them are prevented from racing or trialling; and they are excluded from attending any racecourse.

http://www.harness.org.au/media-room/news-article/?news_id=39052

[Danno]

Better still VCAT dismissed the appeal and

all licenses held by Lisa Bartley, Nathan Jack and Mark Pitt remain suspended; any horses owned or trained by them are prevented from racing or trialling; and they are excluded from attending any racecourse.

http://www.harness.org.au/media-room/news-article/?news_id=39052

Still trying to find the 75% like button.

[Messenger]

Was anyone else surprised at the choice of Amanda Turnbull as the replacement driver for suspended Mark Pitt on Hurricane Harley?

Couldn't it be seen as thumbing your nose at the Integrity Team? Or am I drawing a long bow?

[Dot]

I can see where your coming from but it’s a bit of a stretch. Bottom line is court determine insufficient evidence to proceed against Amanda and she is as available to drive as any other driver, and in this instance more available to drive then other drivers of similar ilk as they already had long standing commitments to other horses. I think Amanda may train one or two now for Lauriston bloodstock as well.

[aussiebreno]

Look at available drivers Stewarts use and Pitt and Jack are out and G Lang seems to be out of favour since the Hectorjayjay days (but did drive Demon Delight) so its really just Alford left, while Van Der Brande gets the 2nd stringers.
Just going for who they think is the best available driver. Could hardly argue there is a better freelance driver around to pick.

[Bonnie]

Was anyone else surprised at the choice of Amanda Turnbull as the replacement driver for suspended Mark Pitt on Hurricane Harley?

Couldn't it be seen as thumbing your nose at the Integrity Team? Or am I drawing a long bow?
I am extremely disappointed that this type of innuendo is aired on this forum. For those that need to know Amanda is not only one of the best freelance drivers in the industry but also a long time friend . We put the best drivers on our horses wherever possible and this was no exception. Accusations of this nature do not help our industry and are an insult to our integrity.

[Messenger]

I knew it was being a little controversial but it really seemed a strange coincidence.
I cannot say I thought it was anything more than that but wondered whether the stewards would be bemused at how things turn out

At no point did I think AT was selected for that reason but when we talk about what 'helps our industry' don't we have to consider how things can look
Eg. When a driver suspended over very serious allegations is replaced by the partner of his accused, who was someone that was also questioned early in the investigation

[DRUIDRACING]

i dont think your bow is the long as you think. good eucalypt trees in victoria for visiting wildlife to be fed on.

[Messenger]

County Court June 20

http://www.harness.org.au/media-room/news-article/?news_id=39353

[Messenger]

Whatever became of this pre-trial hearing?

I see Nathan received a $1500 fine for:

Mr Jack’s attendance at the Shepparton
Harness Racing Club trial meeting on 21 February 2019 when Mr Jack was
subject to an order of the HRV Stewards which excluded him from attending all
racecourses.

http://www.harness.org.au/NEWS/news2/uploads/JACK%20Nathan%20-%20HRV%20RAD%20Board%20-%20Media%20Release.pdf

[Messenger]

I have lost track of where we are at with this trio, a result of the system or lack of
I received a pm which thought their appeals may be coming up this month

We will have to keep checking HRA's Steward news as this is the only place we are likely to find any updates

http://www.harness.org.au/media-room/top-stories/#stewards

There has not been much there of late - too many people on holidays?

[Messenger]

http://www.harness.org.au/media-room/news-article/?news_id=50255

Jack, Pitt and Bartley county court appeals successful

[Messenger]

https://harnesslink.com/australia/complaint-made-into-handling-of-harness-race-fixing-probe/

Now a complaint has been made to the Racing Integrity Commissioner

[Messenger]

Nathan Jack has his license back

[Showgrounds]

Just a reminder for old trots followers who may have forgotten what "The Cobram Three" have ultimately been found not guilty of, here is the result of race 4 from Cobram on Monday 22 June 2015.

https://www.harness.org.au/racing/fields/race-fields/?mc=CO220615

Nathan Jack drove the leader Tooram Lad. In the first lap of the race he turned his head to see what the opposition was up to 8 times, 5 times to the right and 3 times to the inside.

He only turned his head to the right 3 times in the last lap, no doubt because his horse was running its back straight quarter in an incredible 27.1 seconds! He didn't have to turn his head after that because the winner was right beside him.

The stewards made no mention of Jack's ever swivelling head or allowing his horse to run a crazy 27.1 third quarter of its last mile. The only mention is that Tooram Lad pulled hard in the middle stages of the race. Apparently a driver of Jack's experience couldn't settle the horse. It didn't stop him from hitting the horse with the whip from before the 400 metre post though.

Had Brian Gath been able to spoil the party (beaten a short half head) this whole affair may never have seen the light of day.

The law moves in mysterious ways. As of today Nathan Jack is a re-licenced A grade trainer and driver. Don't bother watching the race replay 'coz the kid is innocent! And Santa Claus has traded his his herd of reindeer on a pen of flying pigs.

[Messenger]

As Danno said in a post pages/years ago, if the stewards had acted on the day and given him 6mths it would have been all over 6yrs ago

[Showgrounds]

Yep. A long drive home on a Monday for overworked stewards though. POQ.

[thepacingman]

Nathan Jack has his license back

What about Adelaide for him and Turnbull? Has that been swept under the carpet?

[Showgrounds]

What about Adelaide for him and Turnbull? Has that been swept under the carpet?

The fact that thirteen and a half months after stating charges would be laid against Amanda Turnbull WOULD be laid yet still haven't suggests the rug has been lifted, dropped and it is business as usual.

This is total BS and makes a mockery of any stewards action against any perceived or proven wrongdoings by licenced persons. Regardless of Jack's success in overturning his conviction with his alleged co-conspirators in the Cobram disgrace he was an unlicensed person entrusted by Turnbull to take horses to Adelaide and train them on her behalf. There cannot be a claim of innocence in this fact. Then there is the often overlooked prior by Jack for a similar offence:

https://integrity.thetrots.com.au/news/articles/vrt-hearing-nathan-jack-mark-pitt-russell-jack-tammy-gibbons/

Jack thumbed his nose at the entire industry by taking charge of those horses on the Adelaide trip. Then there is his girlfriend Amanda. More protected than koalas? It appears so. Who else could plead guilty for presenting a horse to race with a prohibited substance, be given a 3 month disqualification then lodge an appeal and be given a seemingly open ended "stay of proceedings"? Had thylacines been granted such liberties they'd still be running wild in Tasmania.

The karma bus always has its engine idling. This duo seem to believe they are impervious to application of the rules of harness racing. Busted authorities such as HRSA only add to this perception by its inaction. Unfortunately thinking you have got away by pulling a swift once, twice or even three times leads habitual cheats and rorters into believing the situation will never change.

But the karma bus is always running. Now it is crewed by highly peeved HRV stewards and Victorian cops who will be keeping very close observations on the activities of the two.

[Showgrounds]

Mark Pitt was also re-licenced on 18 January.

[Messenger]

Trev and Stephen, I don't know what has happened to the SA charges but I do know from my dealings with Chief Steward Graham Loch that he would have / would be doing everything possible to ensure integrity in racing over there.

[Showgrounds]

Trev and Stephen, I don't know what has happened to the SA charges but I do know from my dealings with Chief Steward Graham Loch that he would have / would be doing everything possible to ensure integrity in racing over there.

Glad to hear that. Looking forward to a relevant HRSA media release with baited breath!