Victorian Country Cups circuit 2016

[Messenger]

We kick off with the Swan Hill Cup tonight and how privileged are the locals to have Guaranteed and Hector Jay Jay going around in their $30k cup. Guaranteed resuming would have been coup enough in my book but to also have the Interdom Fav is sensational for the locals. There will be $30k cups later in the season which wont attract better than Smudge Bromac - no criticism intended, just pointing out how lucky Swan Hill are tonight.

They know how to attract a field as last year it was won by the Hunter Cup winner Arden Rooney before he headed off to win the NZ Cup. It will be a Tk Rec tonight as AR's wonderful 1.57.3 was for the 2790m SS with AR coming off 30m while tonight is now of course from the mobile. I do not think anyone can argue that tonight would have been a much better contest as a handicap but then again they may not have attracted the top 2.

I hope we will have a poster in attendance to report that they have a huge crowd. If we did not have visitors this weekend I would go myself as it is < 3hrs - and that is a turn around from a guy who did not even go to the local meet on Thursday! If great horses cannot pull a crowd then we are in big trouble. If you cannot be there tune in at 9pm tonight folks

https://www.harness.org.au/fields.cfm?mc=FD151016&fromstate=vic#7

ps Looking up Arden Rooney is another one of those schemozzles where you have to go between 2 sites to study his performances but at least NZ acknowledges his Aus form.

[Amlin]

Should be a good crowd in attendance as the local radio station sponsors the race and HRV are this season promoting "in town" a day or two before each Cup, handing out flyers etc plus promoting on the new trots segment on SportsDay regional syndicated radio show.

A good way to convert people into followers of the sport by capturing their interest in these regional events they attend.

Extra stakes for many of the Pacing and Trotting Cup races this season too!

[Messenger]

Should be a good crowd in attendance as the local radio station sponsors the race and HRV are this season promoting "in town" a day or two before each Cup, handing out flyers etc plus promoting on the new trots segment on SportsDay regional syndicated radio show.

A good way to convert people into followers of the sport by capturing their interest in these regional events they attend.

Extra stakes for many of the Pacing and Trotting Cup races this season too!

I saw some of the promotion on the Swan Hill facebook page Kyle
I remember musing about the idea of concentrating on capturing country folk in the thread

http://www.harnessracingforum.com/showthread.php?9385-Should-we-be-focusing-on-Grass-Roots-racing-not-Melton-and-Menangle

and Cody told me this was going to happen

Hector running home in 53.1 was the stuff that sticks in your memory so I hope we hear the attendance was super

[Messenger]

Any of our posters go last night?
How many were there?
What did it cost to get in?
I think the majority of the admittance if not all of it was going to the 4 charities that attendees had to vote for - call me heartless but I would hate to think that too high an admittance could effect attendance when we needed to maximize it. From a marketing perspective, if the organizations had huge community numbers eg the local schools - it could be an attendance winner
I know some things are bigger than the industry but Country Cups have to be about the industry because I do not think it is an exaggeration to say that we are fighting for our survival

[Messenger]

http://www.harnesslink.com/Australia/Trots-Media---Community-groups-benefit-as-Swan-Hill-boosts-crowds-through-new-approach

It certainly sounds like it was a success and that the 4 charities was an interesting approach. I would still like to know what admittance cost. The real positives are undoubtedly:

“We can easily reach harness racing people, but these community groups can reach many other people who previously haven’t been involved in the trots.
“Already we’ve had a lot of community groups keen to do it next year, so that will be great.”

It was also interesting to read

Ms Watson said all who saw star pacer Hectorjayjay mercilessly slay his rivals in the cup would appreciate the memory, but added she received feedback from punters bemoaning “too many short-priced favourites”.
“I definitely received more feedback on that issue on the night, but unfortunately that’s something that’s not within my scope,” she said.

4/8 races had long odds on faves, 3 of whom won, and 3 other favourites who all won were not much better than Even money

http://www.harness.org.au/meeting-results.cfm?mc=FD151016&ms=vic

People not familiar with the trots but maybe the gallops are used to more value
IMO long odds on favourites really only suit a handful of pro punters whom we seem to be too reliant on

[codywinnell]

People in the gallops certainly are used to that Kevin and HRV has made it clear the aim is to find ways to reduce long odds-on favs.

From my own personal observations having followed both codes most of my life, it's not correct to think trots markets should be the same as gallops markets. To really use a simplified argument before I go on, I could say Australian rules football is one of the most popular forms of gambling in Australia and punters there are not afraid of two-horse fields with generally one long odds-on favourite! Footy punters know what they are getting and they sign up for it when they place a wager.

In the trots, I will have more 1 unit win x 3 units place bets if I'm taking on a favourite, whereas in the gallops if I'm taking on a favourite I might simply play each-way. Reason for this is generally favourites in the trots are - and this is as traditional as stand-starts or hot chips on race day - shorter than in the gallops.

Just because they are "shorter than in the gallops" however, doesn't necessarily mean that is a huge negative. The feedback from wagering service providers tells us the sweet spot for a favourite's price to produce optimum turnover - and thus maximum return to the industry - is about $1.8 to $2.5 (give or take). So technically "odds-on favourites" are not dirty words, but admittedly $1.45 to $1.8 is not ideal, and $1.4 and shorter is detrimental to turnover, and thus returns to industry.

[Messenger]

Cody, we are indeed a different animal. I think one of the concerns is that people get burnt more often by odds on pops in harness with 40% of them losing. They also don't seem to understand that the horses do not set their odds and sometimes see long odds on pops being beaten as 'dodgy'.

I think a bigger concern is that I am pretty sure it is a smallish pool of big punters that creates our turnover. One of my proofs of this is the way any carryover jackpot to a following race always results in a huge increase in the next race's tri or First 4 pool. It is undoubtedly pros - most average punters are not even going to know there is a carryover. The dependence on very few makes one very vulnerable

So far changes are not working as we are still seeing 44% Odds on faves.

My biggest concerns are the number of meeting only having 6 or 7 races and the fact that we are so far behind the gallops in media coverage.

Let's hope the Country Cups captures rural Victoria as we do not have a city presence

[codywinnell]

So far changes are not working as we are still seeing 44% Odds on faves.




Kevin, I mentioned above, $1.8 to $2.5 is optimum favourite price to ensure best returns for harness racing industry. This information is direct from wagering service providers.

Thus any assumption that "all odds-on favourites are bad for the industry" is incorrect. And any statistic that lumps all odds-on favourites in the one pod, eg: "44% odds-on favourites" is superfluous because some of those are I'm guessing optimum favourite price ($1.8 to $1.95).

HRV is hoping to reduce the number of $1.4 to $1.04 favourites, because that bracket of odds-on pops results in reduced turnover on races and thus reduced returns to the industry.

[Messenger]

Kevin, I mentioned above, $1.8 to $2.5 is optimum favourite price to ensure best returns for harness racing industry. This information is direct from wagering service providers.

Thus any assumption that "all odds-on favourites are bad for the industry" is incorrect. And any statistic that lumps all odds-on favourites in the one pod, eg: "44% odds-on favourites" is superfluous because some of those are I'm guessing optimum favourite price ($1.8 to $1.95).

HRV is hoping to reduce the number of $1.4 to $1.04 favourites, because that bracket of odds-on pops results in reduced turnover on races and thus reduced returns to the industry.

I am not necessarily convinced that short favourites are definitely bad for turnover (except for the fact that I AM convinced that it is a small band of pros) for the Tri and First 4 pools are sometimes very large with an odds on pop

If wagering service providers are right they would have to be concerned that after 360 races 33% have been $1.70 or worse

[Messenger]

Not having been to Swan Hill track and somehow I did not pick it up until watching In The Gig but the trots track is miles away from the people.
Good luck converting newbs when our horses are even further away than the gallopers.
If we cannot utilize the excitement an actual trots venue offers then we may as well race on the gallopers grass

[codywinnell]

Not having been to Swan Hill track and somehow I did not pick it up until watching In The Gig but the trots track is miles away from the people.
Good luck converting newbs when our horses are even further away than the gallopers.
If we cannot utilize the excitement an actual trots venue offers then we may as well race on the gallopers grass


The grass cup in NZ at the weekend was a good spectacle. I've always personally quite liked trots on the grass. Wasn't that long ago we had the grass track c/ship at the Valley. Would be interested in hearing what trainers/drivers on the forum thought about grass-track trots.

One of the key selling points for our sport is the proximity of our fans to the action, so it is a hurdle that clubs and the industry face.

[Adaptor]

One of the key selling points for our sport is the proximity of our fans to the action, so it is a hurdle that clubs and the industry face.

Good point ..

Kilmore, Cranbourne, Swan Hill and the now defunct Traralgon tracks all separate the action and the patrons from each other by a long distamce. Moonee Valley did the same.

One of the features of Lords Raceway at Bendigo is the closeness of the horses circling adjacent to the winning post before moving up to the mobile for a start.
The other is the lawn along the straight which we hope will be packed with picknicking families on upcoming features: Anniverasy and Heatcote Cups Night on December 2, and The now Friday night Petstock Bendigo Cup and Aldebaran Park Maori Mile on February 17.

[Amlin]

Same with us Noel, and especially so on a half mile track.

One country gallops club in a non harness area put forward a proposal for a grass harness race, but I am not sure if this will happen. Shame as it would have been much needed exposure for our sport.




One of the key selling points for our sport is the proximity of our fans to the action, so it is a hurdle that clubs and the industry face.

Good point ..

Kilmore, Cranbourne, Swan Hill and the now defunct Traralgon tracks all separate the action and the patrons from each other by a long distamce. Moonee Valley did the same.

One of the features of Lords Raceway at Bendigo is the closeness of the horses circling adjacent to the winning post before moving up to the mobile for a start.
The other is the lawn along the straight which we hope will be packed with picknicking families on upcoming features: Anniverasy and Heatcote Cups Night on December 2, and The now Friday night Petstock Bendigo Cup and Aldebaran Park Maori Mile on February 17.

[Messenger]

You can add Horsham and Yarra Valley to the list that race inside gallops tracks. I never found the viewing too bad at Yarra Valley as, a bit like Moonee Valley, they have a super stand. You cannot beat the purpose built tracks but they vary a lot too eg you feel much closer to the horses at Stawell than at Hamilton - not only in the back str but also the home str

[Messenger]

I think Maryborough would be happy with their Cup field for Sunday after attracting several good horses

https://www.harness.org.au/fields.cfm?mc=MH231016&fromstate=vic#8

[Messenger]

Comparing the turnover for this year's Swan Hill Cup with last year's is interesting.
Last year we had Flamming Flutter $2.80 fav in the SS event
This year we had Hector JJ $1.40 fav in the Mob event

The Win&Place held $64k last year (48+18)
The Win&Place held $30k this year (22+8)

The total Cup turnover (not including doubles or Quad) was
This year $91k
Last year $100k

Not as big a difference as you may have feared after looking at those Win&Place figures

The reason was the First Four
This year's $43k
Last year $11k

A mind boggling difference. Was there a guaranteed amount for the First 4 this year?
There was no carry-over jackpot
I have seen big First Four pools with Odds On favs before
The $43k this year was nearly 48% of total turnover on the race

[Messenger]

Ohoka Punter is Odds On and Yankee Rockstar $4 in the early fixed market for today's Maryborough Cup but there are Six other runners under $18

[Jimbob]

Go Yankee Rockstar! The market should tighten up, come race time!

[Messenger]

Doesn't JA have a share in the Rockstar?

Early races selected using ascending order is ordinary on a Cup day program IMO

[codywinnell]

If Ohoka starts odds-on he'll be starting too short. I've got him top pick but more of a $2.6 chance. Yankee Rockstar a huge danger. Also reckon Smudge Bromac is crazy overs at 100-1.

Kevin, on your first 4 notes few posts above, as I said, trots punters react differently to gallops punters. That race had first 4 written all over it. I got it several times and so did just about every trots aficionado I spoke to. It wasn't very hard admittedly. But just because there's an odds-on favourite dominating the market doesn't mean there is no chance for punters to make an earn on the punt. It's about educating punters who think it's $1.5 each-way or nothing else to see they can play a $3 first 4 or trifecta and still have a great chance of making money IMO.

[codywinnell]

And remember those figures you quoted don't include corporate turnover. And the corporate graphs are only growing each year. That information comes back to the HRV wagering manager after about a month.

[Messenger]

If Ohoka starts odds-on he'll be starting too short. I've got him top pick but more of a $2.6 chance. Yankee Rockstar a huge danger. Also reckon Smudge Bromac is crazy overs at 100-1.

Kevin, on your first 4 notes few posts above, as I said, trots punters react differently to gallops punters. That race had first 4 written all over it. I got it several times and so did just about every trots aficionado I spoke to. It wasn't very hard admittedly. But just because there's an odds-on favourite dominating the market doesn't mean there is no chance for punters to make an earn on the punt. It's about educating punters who think it's $1.5 each-way or nothing else to see they can play a $3 first 4 or trifecta and still have a great chance of making money IMO.

As I have said on a few occasions, odds on favorites often do not hurt turnover as what you lose on the win and place pools - you can gain on the exotics.
There would no doubt still be even more punters who could be educated to try this strategy.

[Messenger]

On my way home from a weekend away, a mad dash saw me arrive at Maryborough just in time for the Pacing Cup BUT what a bonus, due to a power outage races were running an hour behind time so I saw the Trotting Cup too.

It may well be 35 years since I have been to Maryborough and I must say it is an excellent viewing circuit.
I loved how they were 6 across the track to contest the finish of the 3 races I witnessed - almost within arms reach for the crowd
While The Boss Man could not hold out the wide charge in the Trot, Ohoka Punter had no such trouble in the Pacing Cup
With the Cup now being a mobile affair, Ohoka can now lay claim to the 2690m mobile Tk Rec which up until today belonged to the trotter Wilmas Mate for both pacers and trotters thanks to her win in the Trotters Derby late last season

The crowd seemed pretty good especially considering the man on the gate told me plenty had already left because it was too cold - it did not seem that bad to me
The crowd however had to be 99% old rusted-ons like myself and what with the facilities looking a little tired I could not help but fear for harness's future - a feeling that will not escape me of late
The Chairman was there and I wondered how he sees our future

http://www.harness.org.au/meeting-results.cfm?mc=MH231016&ms=vic

[Messenger]

The new Country Cups Carnival site looks very attractive

http://www.trotscountry.com.au/

[Messenger]

Gotta love this video promo too, filmed in my old home of YG - the pub, the old rail bridge, the hilltop views (I lived in that road until Black Saturday)

https://youtu.be/Otp8NiqyR1g?list=TLGGFZAzsuwGT9oyODEwMjAxNg

[Adaptor]

Its Great !
Gives us Country Clubs some very good promotion tools to work with. Well done to HRV and those whose work it is !
By the way, pencil in FRIDAY Feb 13 as a must come to the Petstock Bendigo Pacing Cup and Aldbaran Park Maori Mile.
We've never had the cup on Friday night.

[Messenger]

Who needs to go to the Interdom when we have Thursday's YV cup on our doorstep.
So far the noms (extended till tomorrow morning) include:

HECTORJAYJAY
YANKEE ROCKSTAR
GUARANTEED
MAJOR SECRET
CHILLI PALMER NZ
FIVE STAR ANVIL NZ
LUCKY LOMBO
RESTREPO
KOTARE ROLAND NZ

[Messenger]

http://www.harness.org.au/news-article.cfm?news_id=31349

The story says

It will be the third year that the Yarra Valley has also held its pacing and trotting cups on Oaks Day, which Mr Shambrook said gave punters “another bite of the spring carnival cheer”.

I am pretty sure this is wrong - I cannot remember the YV Cup being held on Oaks day before

[Amlin]

http://www.harness.org.au/news-article.cfm?news_id=31349

The story says

It will be the third year that the Yarra Valley has also held its pacing and trotting cups on Oaks Day, which Mr Shambrook said gave punters “another bite of the spring carnival cheer”.

I am pretty sure this is wrong - I cannot remember the YV Cup being held on Oaks day before





Cup has been held in Dec but they have raced on Oaks Day before

[Messenger]

Thanks Kyle, that is what I thought. After looking at yesterday's pathetic TAB pools when competing against the major gallops meet, what I thought was a clever move, it would now seem to be a risk putting up your cup against another one. Or are they getting a share of what is bet on the gallops on course?

[aussiebreno]

$1.80 available Hectorjayjay with TAB. Would expect him to start closer to $1.40

[Messenger]

A top first up effort by Restrepo but that farcical cup was why we do not want one trainer with half the field

http://www.harness.org.au/meeting-results.cfm?mc=YG031116&ms=vic#YGC03111601

[Toohard]

The terrific training and driving effort of Scott Dyer and Ellen Tormey with The Boss Man in the Trotters Cup needs to get a mention too. Too good them!!!

[aussiebreno]

A top first up effort by Restrepo but that farcical cup was why we do not want one trainer with half the field

http://www.harness.org.au/meeting-results.cfm?mc=YG031116&ms=vic#YGC03111601
Not to be too critical of Josh Aiken because perhaps if it was a bigger race he would have driven more agressively but I don't think he helped the spectacle of the race with that drive. I think the Stewart team would have strong defences for the way each of their runners were driven.

[Messenger]

Not to be too critical of Josh Aiken because perhaps if it was a bigger race he would have driven more agressively but I don't think he helped the spectacle of the race with that drive. I think the Stewart team would have strong defences for the way each of their runners were driven.

If Josh had driven Hector more aggressively they would have stitched him

[aussiebreno]

If Josh had driven Hector more aggressively they would have stitched him
He has the tactical high speed to go straight past them to the chair and they wouldnt have wanted to bustle Restrepo around first up over 2600... hence the 63 half that didnt suit Guaranteed or Yankee Rockstar.

[Messenger]

Yeah maybe but if Restrepo hands up then Guaranteed would have worked Hector for the team, that's if Guaranteed didn't go to the lead when Hector came around.

[aussiebreno]

In both those scenarios Hector gets a length on Restrepo when Restrepo finally gets the sprint lane (possibly more because if Restrepo hands up to Guaranteed Hector would run past Guaranteed leaving Restrepo stuck behind a tiring horse). If Restrepo can make a length on Hector in the final 200 just how much did Guaranteed work Hector? Would have been a bloody lot for $17,000 from the biggest stable in Aust when Interdoms are around the corner.
Guaranteed got run past by Major Secret and race was over at the 300m - he simply isn't in a position of fitness to make it a true run race whoever is training him. Hector took ground off Restrepo late because Restrepo was first up over 2600m - fitness and running along quicker early was in Hectors interests not Team Stewart so making a war of it trying to beat Hector would see them come unstuck - hence you see the margin reduce late.

Chris Alford on Restrepo and Nathan Jack on Yankee Rockstar have to worry about David Aiken eg drives on Lennytheshark and Smudge Bromac etc.

I would have thought Hector has the heart to go with his speed, whereas you have been critical of a couple drives on Chilli 'Squib' Palmer a couple times of late.

I'm not saying Josh did the wrong thing because he has an Interdom to worry about, but the race was run in a normal enough fashion and this certainly isn't the first country cup we have bemoaned a slow first half. If that was the Interdom final we wouldn't be here talking about it being farcically run because Hector would be going forward. Can't just pin it on the one stable.

[Messenger]

You cant - I can. They had 4 in the race who all worked forward to fill the first four places knowing Hector from the 2nd line is going to be behind them, they then understandably run slow and what I am saying is that with half the field from the one stable we have limited contenders who are NOT going to accept that pace.

I am not saying anyone did the wrong thing - maybe Josh in not zipping to the death, just saying it was a fizzer of a race IMO primarily because one stable was able to occupy the first 4 places, we will beg to differ. The imminent Inter of course had a bearing on the race

I was critical of Chilli once and since have seen him lead up the 3w line in the Maryborough cup

"Chris Alford on Restrepo and Nathan Jack on Yankee Rockstar have to worry about David Aiken eg drives on Lennytheshark and Smudge Bromac etc."

I am not sure what you are suggesting here :eek:

[aussiebreno]

You cant - I can. They had 4 in the race who all worked forward to fill the first four places knowing Hector from the 2nd line is going to be behind them, they then understandably run slow and what I am saying is that with half the field from the one stable we have limited contenders who are NOT going to accept that pace.

I am not saying anyone did the wrong thing - maybe Josh in not zipping to the death, just saying it was a fizzer of a race IMO primarily because one stable was able to occupy the first 4 places, we will beg to differ. The imminent Inter of course had a bearing on the race

I was critical of Chilli once and since have seen him lead up the 3w line in the Maryborough cup

"Chris Alford on Restrepo and Nathan Jack on Yankee Rockstar have to worry about David Aiken eg drives on Lennytheshark and Smudge Bromac etc."

I am not sure what you are suggesting here :eek:
Regardless of who was training the horses how else would you have driven the four Stewart horses?

A horse up first up over 2600m is going to want to run a 63 half whoever it is trained by. Guaranteed doesn't have the fitness to be grinding hard time from the death as evidenced 20+m defeat last start and Major Secret running past him. Yankee Rockstar in this grade driven accordingly and Major Secret every right to hand up given his midfield form. The four horses were driven accordingly to how they are going at this level. That they were trained by the same stable is just superfluous to the matter. Horses being driven according to where they are at made the race run the way it was run (farcical as you put it) - not that four horses were driven by the same stable.

By saying the four Stewart horses made it farcical implies the four drivers drove not as individuals but as a team - because you are grouping them. Whether you meant it that way or not that comes across to me that they team drove. I'm just saying it isn't in their interest to team drive against Aiken.

[Messenger]

Sure it is in their interests to team drive for Stewart because they were all driving Stewart horses and may have all been following Stewart instructions
What you are suggesting - that they have to think of their future with Aiken is far more sinister

Forgetting this race, just any Gp race - I am against any stable having half the field because it gives them the means to control the race

[aussiebreno]

Sure it is in their interests to team drive for Stewart because they were all driving Stewart horses and may have all been following Stewart instructions
What you are suggesting - that they have to think of their future with Aiken is far more sinister

Forgetting this race, just any Gp race - I am against any stable having half the field because it gives them the means to control the race
Team driving is not allowed. Are you suggesting they cheated?

I am not suggesting anything sinister. I didn't say they have to help Hector/Aiken out just that they shouldn't do anything illegally eg team drive to get Aiken beat.

[Messenger]

You are in a wacky mood Brenno
Nobody ever cheats in harness
I think the trainer is totally entitled to tell all her drivers to press forward with the odds on fav the only horse on the second line
What I dont like is the fact that the trainer had 4 drivers to give this message to

[aussiebreno]

You are in a wacky mood Brenno
Nobody ever cheats in harness
I think the trainer is totally entitled to tell all her drivers to press forward with the odds on fav the only horse on the second line
What I dont like is the fact that the trainer had 4 drivers to give this message to
What would the instructions have been if all four were individually trained? All were driven reasonably. Race wouldn't have been different.
So has it gone from Stewarts made it a farcically run race to now just a trainer shouldn't be allowed to have multiple horses in a race?

[Messenger]

What would the instructions have been if all four were individually trained? All were driven reasonably. Race wouldn't have been different.
So has it gone from Stewarts made it a farcically run race to now just a trainer shouldn't be allowed to have multiple horses in a race?

My first post Breno

"A top first up effort by Restrepo but that farcical cup was why we do not want one trainer with half the field"

I dont think it has gone anywhere but to Boredomville

[aussiebreno]

Wacky mood, boredom... Oh we going off topic now? Must be because multiple times I have asked you how the horses would have been driven differently if they were trained by different trainers yet received donuts. If they were driven the same way no matter who trained them then bit hard to pin the race tempo on the fact they were all trained by the same trainer. So how should they have been driven????

[Messenger]

I think I have been consistent in maintaining that it was a farcically run race and that I think one trainer having the 4 runners up front contributed to it.
BUT maybe I should be blaming Josh more for not seeing that with 4 from the one stable in front of him - he could not afford to let them dictate
I think that Lang or Alford would have seen it that way if they were driving Hector but I got the feeling that Josh was put off from making the move
BUT maybe I should be accepting that the Yarra Valley Cup meant pretty much nothing to a few of them because of what they have coming up

I am not the form analyst that you are - I am just trying to keep this board ticking over and my opinion of the 'no moves' YV cup is only that - my opinion
Don't get aggressive Breno or I wont love you anymore - this board is not an aggressive place anymore or haven't you noticed that

I will have a stab at how things could have been different to make you happy.
Often cups see a bit of a death rotation going on early. It didn't happen - maybe this was because Guaranteed was in the death but some would argue that with Gavin driving him, it would NOT have been "I am keeping it no matter what" so the tough horse problem may have been cancelled out by the gentle driver argument
I think it is possible if someone else was the trainer (and driver) of Guaranteed he may have worked the Leader a bit more early on. I don't think under the present training arrangements that he was ever going to work his heavily backed stablemate who was resuming.
If someone else was the trainer of Yankee, they may even have left the 1x1 when they were going that slow - in anticipation that Hector is going to come because he is not going to let them get away with this. I dont think that with his team-mates in better spots Yankee was ever likely to do this as 'the team' were already beautifully positioned (and it would have turned out to be a wrong assumption :o)

These are all big hypotheticals but one thing I do know from being a serious cyclist and runner in my day that although collusion is not allowed that does not mean you cannot feel satisfied with how the team is positioned and just go with the flow

[aussiebreno]

I think I have been consistent in maintaining that it was a farcically run race and that I think one trainer having the 4 runners up front contributed to it.
BUT maybe I should be blaming Josh more for not seeing that with 4 from the one stable in front of him - he could not afford to let them dictate
I think that Lang or Alford would have seen it that way if they were driving Hector but I got the feeling that Josh was put off from making the move
BUT maybe I should be accepting that the Yarra Valley Cup meant pretty much nothing to a few of them because of what they have coming up

I am not the form analyst that you are - I am just trying to keep this board ticking over and my opinion of the 'no moves' YV cup is only that - my opinion
Don't get aggressive Breno or I wont love you anymore - this board is not an aggressive place anymore or haven't you noticed that

I will have a stab at how things could have been different to make you happy.
Often cups see a bit of a death rotation going on early. It didn't happen - maybe this was because Guaranteed was in the death but some would argue that with Gavin driving him, it would NOT have been "I am keeping it no matter what" so the tough horse problem may have been cancelled out by the gentle driver argument
I think it is possible if someone else was the trainer (and driver) of Guaranteed he may have worked the Leader a bit more early on. I don't think under the present training arrangements that he was ever going to work his heavily backed stablemate who was resuming.
If someone else was the trainer of Yankee, they may even have left the 1x1 when they were going that slow - in anticipation that Hector is going to come because he is not going to let them get away with this. I dont think that with his team-mates in better spots Yankee was ever likely to do this as 'the team' were already beautifully positioned (and it would have turned out to be a wrong assumption :o)

These are all big hypotheticals but one thing I do know from being a serious cyclist and runner in my day that although collusion is not allowed that does not mean you cannot feel satisfied with how the team is positioned and just go with the flow
That bolded bit makes for beautiful reading because it adds to the topic and backs up your opinion.

[Messenger]

Thanks Breno
but I was way out of line about collusion and cycling - cycling is all about collusion ;)

Overall I just think I was disappointed with the Cup but probably shouldn't have been as they did come home in 53.9

[Messenger]

Weekend visitors may be a problem but I will be trying to get to the St Arnaud Cup on Sunday as they only race twice a year
I always thought their track was much smaller than Stawell's but it is only about 6m diff 810 - 804.65 (150m is a very short straight however)

https://www.harness.org.au/fields.cfm?mc=SA131116&fromstate=vic#7

[Amlin]

This is the first of the "restricted" cup races. No faster than M2 gives some of the lower assessed pacers a run at bigger money.

[arlington]

This is the first of the "restricted" cup races. No faster than M2 gives some of the lower assessed pacers a run at bigger money.


A big chance one of these horses will win the $25,000 bonus too.

[Amlin]

Donald and St Arnaud are 38 kms apart and run their Cup on the same day.

Remarkable.

[Messenger]

Abandoned is a surprise - we have had heaps of rain at the Gap but Stawell and Charlton very little but maybe they copped what Bendigo got but 10mm between 10am and 3pm is no flood

[Messenger]

http://www.harnesslink.com/Australia/Trots-Media---HRV-to-reschedule-St-Arnaud-Cup-Day--compensate-trainers-and-drivers-after-washout

St Arnaud to be rescheduled. I wonder if the main problem was the mobile barrier? Do they have a 4 wheel drive vehicle?

[trish]

St Arnaud , this is very good , don't think it happens in many places. Well done HRV.

HRV will also pay all drivers’ fees from Sunday and make a ‘meeting abandonment payment’ to each trainer that had a runner or runners engaged to offset travel costs.”
Trainers will receive compensation of $100 for every two horses they had at the meeting, meaning trainers who had 1-2 horses will get $100, trainers with 3-4 horses will receive $200 and trainers that had 5-6 horses will get $300

[Amlin]

100 noms for Gunbower Sunday

[Messenger]

It is a pretty good field for the Geelong Cup in just over 2hrs time.
A bit of a surprise to only see 6 in the Trotters Cup

https://www.harness.org.au/fields.cfm?mc=GE101216&fromstate=vic

[Messenger]

Full brothers from running years won running races at Geelong tonight
They both did it tough in the death with Major Secret taking out the Cup and Vanderley the race before.
Vanderley who has always shown ability is the older of the two but has had TWO 17mth spells in his career.
Their half sister is Beauty Secret

http://www.harness.org.au/meeting-results.cfm?mc=GE101216&ms=vic

[Messenger]

4yo Hickstead won the Wedderburn Cup today continuing on with the very successful year he has had since coming over from NZ 12mths ago taking his Oz record to 7 wins from 15 starts
He showed his toughness sitting 3w the last lap

http://www.harness.org.au/meeting-results.cfm?mc=WD111216&ms=vic#WDC11121601

[Amlin]

Cranbourne will conduct a combined Pacing and Gallops Cup night on the first Friday in March next year.

[Messenger]

Only 8 in the Ballarat Cup but it could have been less as the 3 Super Stars could have scared Everybody else off

http://www.harnesslink.com/Australia/Draw-can-t-douse-confidence-for-Lazarus

[Adaptor]

This year, Bendigo race on a Friday night, with the new time slot a result of feature race re-scheduling across Australia.
February 17 will see both the Group 2 Petstock Bendigo Pacing Cup and the Group 1 Aldebaran Park Maori Mile, contested.

There have been 52 winners of the Bendigo Pacing Cup since Kalamas Peak , trained and driven by legendary Jack Moore of Maryborough won in 1965.

But there were seven winners of the original Bendigo Cup, run at the Epsom Racecourse of the Bendigo Jockey Club, and they will be recognised and added to the list, making 59 Bendigo Cup winners.

Until recently it was thought that Kalamas Peak was the first winner of the Bendigo Pacing Cup.
Research, and valuable information from John Peck, the Classicfamilies website, and the Bendigo Advertiser of the day has confirmed that Kinnie Bazil was the first winner, at the inaugural race meeting of the Bendigo Trotting Club, formed in 1923.
Incredibly, there were four cups conducted at the Bendigo Jockey Cub track at Epsom in 1924.
The original Bendigo Trotting Club went into recess after the 1932 cup.

Bendigo Cup (original)
Run at Epsom Racecourse Bendigo
1924 Feb: Kinnie Bazil, William Reidell
1924 July: Grand Voyage, Paddy Glasheen
1924 Oct: Queen Pirate, Paddy Glasheen
1924 Dec: Dummy, Bill Fortington
1929 First Cast, Orme Marshall
1930 Princess Mauritius, George Gath
1932 Le Wilkes, Alex McPherson

[arlington]

Only 8 in the Ballarat Cup but it could have been less as the 3 Super Stars could have scared Everybody else off

http://www.harnesslink.com/Australia/Draw-can-t-douse-confidence-for-Lazarus

One of the best races I've seen this season. Full of intrigue, in many good ways, from the barrier draw to the end. Ok, drivers/connections stretched the COT rules but....

Btw, Not sure if M Purdon crucified Lazarus taking off around the bend but what's with the music at the end of the video replay?! :eek: