Hayes- Words of Wisdom? Or a load of Bollocks?

[triplev123]

From this week's edition of The Hayes Files.

In part...

I was critical of the Harness Racing New South Wales stewards after a recent decision at Tamworth but I want to give the panel at Menangle on Monday a wrap. Matthew Bentley was in charge of the meeting and he opened up an inquiry into the driving tactics adopted by Robbie Byrnes on Bylong About. Trainer Neville Hargraves advised stewards that the horse would be driven further back and with cover, a public announcement was made to reflect that yet Bylong About showed good gate speed and was driven hard at the start to obtain the lead. In the wash up Hargraves was fined $300 for failing to issue clear driving instructions to Robbie Byrnes.
There are two distinct sides to the argument in relation to trainers advising a change of tactics to stewards. I had numerous discussions with the former Chairman of Stewards Michael Beattie about it and we still couldn’t agree. Should owners, trainers and drivers be looked after or should the punters be protected?
Owners pay good money to have their horse trained, the element of surprise can sometimes be a huge advantage and can lead to a horse winning a race. Therefore being able to “keep the cards close to one’s chest” in regards to tactics can mean a better return for those directly involved with the horse.
However and I have said this all before, while some might disagree, the most important factor in our industry is the punter. The punter should be protected and therefore changes of tactics should be notified. It is hard enough to read a race and find a winner without a horse being driven differently from its normal pattern or being driven distinctly different to the tactics that are publically announced. Some participants just don’t get it that without the punter and turnover there is no prizemoney. No prizemoney and the owners, trainers and drivers can race for ribbons and if that was the case there would be no industry. Harness racing as we know it can’t survive without punters, yet people will continue to punt if harness racing was stopped. Whether it is another racing code, sports betting, poker machines or lotteries, people can find something to bet on.

[smithy]

i dont like haysey but his articles are pretty good normally

[David Summers]

No , I will not comment either. Can not stand GH and therefore my biased opinion would not be worth much , so I'll shut up and leave to others :-)

[triplev123]

G'day fellas,

Not that either you need me to do so but nevertheless, I'll try and take the pressure off both of you. :rolleyes:

I like Hayes, always have. I think he is a good bloke and I think he is good for Harness Racing...but in this particular instance I think he has taken a leaf from 'The Minty Men' playbook. Just like Hamilton & Guerin where matters of Punting are concerned, he is similarly talking out of his pocket & not surprisingly it is abject & unadulterated crap. :mad:

Apparently quite unlike so many of today's Punters, I don't expect to be spoon-fed. I don't expect to have a pre race announcement broadcast to me with regard to who is going to do what and when and how and I don't expect someone hold my hand when I have a bet. I do the form as best I can & if I do my cash I don't susequently seek to lay the blame elsewhere because I got it wrong.
By way of a direct comparison to their forebears, there is no doubt in my mind that today's Punters are precious hot house flowers, big girls blouses, assorted purses and handbags in that regard.

My one and only expectation as a Punter and as a Participant is and always has been that the Stewards do their job. I ask no more of them and will accept no less. If they do their job the lot of the Punter automatically becomes less troublesome. In fact the lot of all Industry Participants automatically becomes less troublesome.

[mango]

Yeah i'd agree with you Triple about the punter's. I don't think a trainer or driver should have to tell anyone how they are going to drive the horse you don't see an NRL coach giving his tactics for a game to the opposition coach but punter's still bet.

[triplev123]

That's where Hayes' final analogy falls flat on its arse.
Harness racing as we know it can’t survive without punters, yet people will continue to punt if harness racing was stopped. Whether it is another racing code, sports betting, poker machines or lotteries, people can find something to bet on.
That's absolute bloody twaddle because in sports betting, poker machines and lotteries NOBODY ever pops in and gives you the heads up prior to you putting your money down on some bunch of pie eater footballers or a golfer or whatever nor do they do so prior to you pressing the button on a poker machine or picking up a Lottery ticket.

While I'm on the soapbox...the same thing applies to the absurd 'change of gear' announcements.
98% of those listening in to them wouldn't know an open bridle or a murphy blind from their elbow and fewer still would have any idea whatsoever as to why various pieces of gear were being added or conversely, being withdrawn and the expected function/outcome thereof etc. It's all quite ridiculous. The average Punter in my local Pub thinks a Murphy Blind is a pissed Irishman.

[aussiebreno]

I was about to come into this thread and say I 100% agree with Hayes. But reading VVV post #4 I rethought my response.
I think Hayes is 100% spot on that the industry needs the punter; they are the most important stakeholder (apart from Menangle where they use $100 dollar bills to keep the crowd warm on a Saturday night). Trainers can train, drivers can drive, owners can own and stewards can officiate; but where does the paycheque come from? The paycheque is pretty shallow without the punters dollar. As much as we all the sport (and probably lose money from it anyway) without the prizemoney participants drop out. And the whole thing I base this on is the assumption punters bring in 20/25%+ income to the industry. If its a small figure like 5-10% then I guess the industry can operate with almost the same efficiency but if its a low figure like that I'd love to know where the industry gets it money from because I will join them!
That is why punters are the most important stakeholder.
BUT; still working on assumptions here sorry; most punters money comes from mugs sitting in the TAB. The only thing many of these people can competently do is fill out TAB tickets; they are hardly going to be able to read a stewards report or have an internet connection under their bridge :p while many others either don't know what just happened; will blame anyone and everyone regardless if they lose but still go back for more or don't really understand just have it folklored that trots is rigged and stick to dogs anyway.
The people Hayes is referring to are people like Buster (ex forum member). 'Bigger' punters who actually do know whats going on. But look at Buster; even he still keeps coming back with his punting money. So you see the influence of rules to protect the punter; although good in theory; dont actually work in practice anyway and peeve of industry insiders.
Thats my opinion and there is a lot of opinion rather than fact where I may be off the mark. Apologies if so.

[David Summers]

It's all quite ridiculous. The average Punter in my local Pub thinks a Murphy Blind is a pissed Irishman.

Classic. Hehehe.

[Greg Hando]

I'm with you on this Mango i wont tell anyone what im doing with my horses it's none of their buisness i might want to have a little punt myself so i'm not going to tell all and sundry about them and get a poor price
i pay the bills out of my pocket not the punters a punter will only most times punt on form and a lot of them don't understand the form guide anyway they look at the number's 1452 and go off that it is only a select few that
really study it properly and understand it

[smithy]

neville hargraves got off lightly, he should have been smashed for deliberately misleading and further to that he was reprimanded for not being on course in the right time...


COT imo is not to spoon fed punters, punters watch replays they know who usually goes forward/back better then most drivers in the race, if you can't line up whether a horse will cross another - check the betting, that will tell you who is finding the front... it should be used to stop ridiculous tactics and rorting...