Prizemoney for Group Racing

[Diablo]

Group 3 race at Albion Park, the Be Good Johnny Sprint. $30,000 prizemoney for the entire race. Winner gets $18,000. Greyhound people must laugh at this. A Group 3 greyhound race is worth minimum $25,000 to the winner. No wonder the Thoroughbred people look down on Harness people.

[Messenger]

That is very common Greg. The Stawell Cup today is also Gp3 and worth $30k.
I know where you are coming from but I have seen a Gp3 race at Melton worth $20k - I think it was a trot
I have been convinced by other posters that we have bigger problems
We need to get more people to the trots and hopefully more owners/horses and I cannot see that happening when we have so many races for a total of $3500
We need to lift our profile and as much as I agree that down here we are dependent on country racing/folk - it is pretty hard to lift your profile if you do not have a metro track where most of the people live

ps The Chokin Stakes last night in money flush NSW was worth <$32k and it was also Gp3

[trish]

ps The Chokin Stakes last night in money flush NSW was worth <$32k and it was also Gp3






http://www.harness.org.au/news-article.cfm?news_id=31895

[trish]

Country Series Finals from $25,000 to $20,000;

[Messenger]

ps The Chokin Stakes last night in NOT QUITE SO money flush NSW was worth <$32k and it was also Gp3


http://www.harness.org.au/news-article.cfm?news_id=31895

Trish, after reading that article the other day I thought I should edit your post for accuracy (or were you being sarcastic ;))

[trish]

You know me Kev I'm not one to joke.......hahahah

[KTQ]

Our little trotter won a Group 1 in Perth 2 weeks ago. Total race prize money was $50k. Group one.

[aussiebreno]

Our little trotter won a Group 1 in Perth 2 weeks ago. Total race prize money was $50k. Group one.Have you thought about coming to the East with it in the new year?

[KTQ]

Have you thought about coming to the East with it in the new year?

It's hard to tell if she's good enough. Trotting in the west is a bit light on great horses. I guess that's the reason for the low prize money.

[Messenger]

At the other end of the scale - it seems somewhat ridiculous that a 2yo race (Menangle Sat.) in which more than half the field are first starters is a Gp2 $51k race
I know a couple of them have nice siblings but ideally we want Gp races contested by horses that have proven themselves to be Gp quality.
I guess the problem could be that it is too early in the season to be having Gp 2yo races

https://www.harness.org.au/fields.cfm?mc=PC180217#8

[Hermione]

I think maybe the problem is the prize money dictates whether it is Grp1, 2, or 3. Not sure where I got that information from? Apologies if it is incorrect :)

[arlington]

At the other end of the scale - it seems somewhat ridiculous that a 2yo race (Menangle Sat.) in which more than half the field are first starters is a Gp2 $51k race
I know a couple of them have nice siblings but ideally we want Gp races contested by horses that have proven themselves to be Gp quality.
I guess the problem could be that it is too early in the season to be having Gp 2yo races

https://www.harness.org.au/fields.cfm?mc=PC180217#8


I know a couple of them have nice siblings... Does that mean anything at all Kev?

[Mark Croatto]

I think maybe the problem is the prize money dictates whether it is Grp1, 2, or 3. Not sure where I got that information from? Apologies if it is incorrect :)

The prize money does dictate the classification of the race as a group or listed event. In Australia for pacing events $25k to $29.9k = Listed Event, $30k to $49.9k = Group 3, $50k to $99.9k = Group 2, and $100k upwards = Group 1.

The full details can be read here http://www.harness.org.au/hra/feature/gr_glines.pdf

Cheers

Mark

[Messenger]

I know a couple of them have nice siblings... Does that mean anything at all Kev?

I was thinking along the lines of the gallops really Wayne, sometimes they have a big 2yo race that attract the top echelon from their sales, some of whom are first starters

[aussiebreno]

I would suggest the decision to put these horses in a Gp2 first up are decisions based on what they been showing on the training track, not their breeding.
Even the 3yo fillies - I would think Royal Story had Oaks plans even before her trial wins.

[Messenger]

I would suggest the decision to put these horses in a Gp2 first up are decisions based on what they been showing on the training track, not their breeding.
Even the 3yo fillies - I would think Royal Story had Oaks plans even before her trial wins.

True Breno, the big $ 2yo gallops races I was thinking of would have had first starters entered on the basis of what they had shown at home

[Messenger]

Well Divine State made it a Gp2 I will not forget for a long time. He has virtually run the same time as Hector did in the Gp1 FFA and taken half a second off Lettucerockthem's 2yo Australasian Record and it is only February!

[Messenger]

From 1 January 2023, the minimum dollar thresholds for group races will be increased as follows:



The minimum prizemoney for Group 1 races to be $150,000 for Pacers (from $100,000) and $75,000 for Trotters (from $50,000);
The minimum prizemoney for Group 2 races to be $75,000 for Pacers (from $50,000) and $50,000 for Trotters (from $30,000);
The minimum prizemoney for Group 3 races to be $50,000 for Pacers (from $30,000) and $30,000 for Trotters (from $20,000).


A major basis for the change is to have Group status available for predominantly open races only. Meaning races that with restricted eligibility will only allowed Listed status. Restricted races include: yearling sale races, races restricted by rating, earnings and races that are heats and consolations.

https://www.harness.org.au/media-room/news-article/?news_id=50882

[Messenger]

You can see why we need the above increases (and more). Although I am very much for getting rid of $4,500 races we have to have races that justify high sale prices
A case in point. Bondi Lockdown (first invite to the Rising Sun on July 9) has won three Gp1's (plus a 2nd) plus won a Gp3 and been placed in other Group races
And yet he has only won $329k so far

[Messenger]

The Ainsworth tonight is a good field but should it be a Gp1 seeing as though it is essentially a consolation for the MM?
Mind you it will have to have an increase to $150k to remain one next year

http://www.harness.org.au/racing/fields/race-fields/?mc=PC050322#PCM05032203

[aussiebreno]

The Ainsworth tonight is a good field but should it be a Gp1 seeing as though it is essentially a consolation for the MM?
Mind you it will have to have an increase to $150k to remain one next year

http://www.harness.org.au/racing/fields/race-fields/?mc=PC050322#PCM05032203

Group 1 in name only

[Messenger]

The prize money does dictate the classification of the race as a group or listed event. In Australia for pacing events $25k to $29.9k = Listed Event, $30k to $49.9k = Group 3, $50k to $99.9k = Group 2, and $100k upwards = Group 1.

The full details can be read here http://www.harness.org.au/hra/feature/gr_glines.pdf

Cheers

Mark

If you look at the link. kindly supplied by Mark, you will see (rightly) that a Trotters Gp2 is supposed to be $50k+

What gives with the pathetic $30k 4yo Trotting Mares Gp2

https://www.harness.org.au/racing/fields/race-fields/?mc=MX181122#MXM18112211

Edit: Ah, although I used Mark's link from 2017, I see that the doc has been updated AND that info does not come into effect until 2023

[Messenger]

I know it was a quick back up but Tuesday's Gp3 winner Our Princess Di could only manage 7th of 8 at Melton last night
The fact that Tuesday was a Group race amounts to absolute degradation of Group racing and why changes were needed (hopefully 2023 changes are the answer)
The Group race was run in 1.59.2 while last night it was 3 seconds quicker, which accounts for her being beaten by 40m