Form Guides

Is anyone else disappointed with the quality of the officialform guides presented for Harness Racing? I feel that harness racing bettorsare very poorly treated in the information that is currently being put forward. I would suggest we run a very poor thirdto the other racing codes in information provided to encourage punters to bet. Having spent some of the last few years inCanada, I am used to the detailed form lines that the larger North Americantracks provide. From the results chartsand form lines provided a bettor can draw an accurate picture of how the racewas run and how the horse performed. Compare any US/Canadian form line withwhat was provided for Vladimir the Great after his win at Menangle on26/11/2011:

1-9 MENANGL 26Nov11 2300MS (Good), $25000 Sew Eurodrive Mount Eden (C0 To C5.), Fr6 Gary Hall (Jnr) $6.10, 3.5m, 7.9m, 2nd MABROOK NZ Fr7, 3rd GOD SEND NZ Fr1, 1:58.6, 56.1 (30.5, 29.9, 28.1, 28.0) pre race blood test, galloped out, warning issued, swabbed

Where does it tell you that this horse was four back on thefence from the start to the 800 (13 metres off the lead; worked one wide into 8thposition at the 400 (10 metres off the lead); then flashed home from 5th(8 metres off the lead) at the 200 to win in a last half of 55.1 (27.9, 27.2)off its slow lead time of 53.6 seconds andfirst quarters of 31.6 and 29.9.

From the info in the official form you cannot tell if thishorse’s run was a good honest sit and sprint off a mixed gait start or it wonlike Mount Eden who also galloped outand raced into harness racing legend!

Bear in mind this horse then started a $1.40 favourite atits next start and had to race in the death seat for most of the last two lapsat Bankstown. Nice run parked out but no Mount Eden performance!

http://cache1.asset-cache.net/xc/780...0A760B0D811297

Fair dinkum there are FREE videos available. What more do you want/people need. How much ground the horse covered in the warm ups?

Wow most insignificant issue in harness racing today goes to this "issue"! HRA provides far greater information, FREE of charge, than the other two major codes. Race videos and breeding information availability mixed with the ability to search trial results easily and specifically for horses places the punter in as good a position as possible. Much to manys disgust participants have to reveal their tactics and run along at a pre ordained speed.
The only other information I could ask for in the form would have been steward on charge and what horses were not to be swabbed but looks like I missed that boat!

I love the free videos and do my own charts and form forMenangle meetings only. I would spend about three or four hours on each meetingpreparing form, looking at trial information; Stewards reports, ect and then writing my charts andsectional times after the races. I guess my concern is for the occasionalpunter who turns up to a well advertised Country Cups meeting on a warmsummer’s night for his first trot meeting in years and buys his race book orTrotguide. Sadly, in my opinion, he is the one who is really flying blind. Hemay or may not have had time to study the free videos to determine the horse’srecent winning and losing racing patterns.

Quote:

Originally Posted by ojc

I love the free videos and do my own charts and form forMenangle meetings only. I would spend about three or four hours on each meetingpreparing form, looking at trial information; Stewards reports, ect and then writing my charts andsectional times after the races. I guess my concern is for the occasionalpunter who turns up to a well advertised Country Cups meeting on a warmsummer’s night for his first trot meeting in years and buys his race book orTrotguide. Sadly, in my opinion, he is the one who is really flying blind. Hemay or may not have had time to study the free videos to determine the horse’srecent winning and losing racing patterns.

An occasional punter probably wouldn't fully understand or even care about such things.

I guess you are right. Everyone finds their own level of information required to give them what they perceive to be an 'edge'. I like doing the form my way and it fits ok into my time available for the study of the form. What do we have to do to get this occasional punter to become a regular? Do rising or falling turnover levels in NSW still determine Government assistance and interest?

Quote:

Originally Posted by ojc

I guess you are right. Everyone finds their own level of information required to give them what they perceive to be an 'edge'. I like doing the form my way and it fits ok into my time available for the study of the form. What do we have to do to get this occasional punter to become a regular? Do rising or falling turnover levels in NSW still determine Government assistance and interest?

This isn't an answer just one point. TAB takeout (where all the occasional gamblers bet) keeps getting higher and higher and bookies set ridiculous %s. We all know gambling is a losing game (if you are winning good on you, send me a PM with your tips) but at least the flow is stemmed with markets at 110% but now they are at 120% plus it just means the occasional punter loses their money faster when they lose and don't win as much when they are successful.
Possibly not moral* but the best way to create problem gamblers are get people hooked on the thrill of winning. Finding barely legal 18yos and sourcing them into a bet where they win a weeks wage would be good.

*Definitely not moral but would work!

High profile and glamorous winning big in smart, elegant company seems to have worked with the promotion of All Sports gaming. A lot of younger guys I know will bet on all up bets on mixed sporting events such as South Sydney to win by 14.5 points into Manchester United to win by 2 goals with the third leg being Venus Williams to win by straight sets. These same punters would not even look at a trot race without making a derogatory comment???

Yes that's a big hit to the trots. I can't comment about past generations but overseas sport (NBL, NFL, EPL etc) has such a big following from 13-25 year olds now and because its easily accessible these days people can bet all year round on something they actually follow and like.
All racing is suffering the same problems. Problem is gallops are the accepted norm and have such a stranglehold on the public minds that will never be changed and with the dogs for the generation Y attention span and the theory its 100% clean because jockeys/drivers can't team ride/drive trots faces a much harder task keeping punters.
Perceptions are so far different from reality though. I don't have a source for these stats other (an internet article a couple years ago released by the tab) but far more favourites win in harness. This backs up my theory that harness form is so much easier to read and to draw lines through - yet the perception among the public is who gives a toss about harness. The stats were low 30% for harness and low-mid 20% for gallop and dogs. Maybe, generalising here, this is because the occasional punters/gamblers in PubTABs see 'value' in outsiders and back outsiders therefore lose more and think harness is shit because they're just shit punters.
The thread started with saying how trot form guides should be more detailed. If you walk into a TAB and read the dog formguides its a major wtf. I'm no dogs expert; I have no interest in the sport; but a major thing they rave on about is getting to the first turn clear and in front. In no formguide in any TAB I have seen indicates if the dog got tightened up/checked coming out of the boxes or around a turn yet in every race I watch half the field gets interference of some sort. The hopeless punters in the pubTAB who fill the pools up MASSIVELY in the final 5 minutes before the race; who have never heard of the dogs/horses in the field are very strange characters indeed.
Then we have gallops were 1200m seems to be a completely different form to 1600m yet in harness not much changes from 1609 to 3218m. and its much harder to do 'line' form. Eg horse A beat horse B by 5metres and horse B beat horse C by 5metres so horse A is better than horse C by 10m (ok not as simple as that but I hope the point is taken).
What we are missing are a view we are clean (hard to argue with the public in light of recent and past events) and that we take >2 for a race which is seen as boring (because seeing dogs race for 5 secs and maybe catching a glimpse of a galloper in the packed drunken crowd is so much more entertaining NOT).
How we change the publics mind. I don't know. To still get the bad rap despite George Brown and the Waterhouse's/Fine Cotton/Bold Personality (for those playing at home that is two seperate points; I am not linking Waterhouses with George Brown) is mystifying.
It's the oldest question in the book and I whoever finds the answer deserves a gold medal. I think its got to be a lot of little things; and many of these seem to already be in place eg Menangle track.

Interesting to find this old thread
Lately I have been using racenet to follow gallopers (blame the family for my occasional desertion)
and I love all the info you can get by clicking on the tabs at the top of each race field
Just unexpected interest stuff like:
What the horse sold for if it went through a sale (under breeding)
The trainer and jockeys strike rates/stats for the previous year - great value for country meets where you need to know if your selection's trainer/jock ever wins
I could become addicted to this and the higher quality picture you get on Ch.68 (I hope we catch up soon)