Breeding

I was checking out some mare's on the Harness Racing New Zealand site and who they were served by this last season. I came across a mare from the Lis Mara family named Lisconnie who is by Western Ideal a beautifully bred mare i would say but what struck me as strange unless it's a miss print is that Lisconnie has been bred to American Ideal who's father is by Western Ideal. To me that is inbred, now as i own a few greyhounds for fun i often look up breeding's on the greyhound site to see what would suit my Brett Lee bitch and i have noticed there have been quiet a few greyhound owner's doing the same thing (inbreeding) i myself wouldn't try it but i was wondering what people thought of the idea of line breeding/inbreeding and there theories and what they most like to achieve when matching a mare to a stallion.

G'day Mango,

Charlie Roberts of Woodlands Stud owns & bred her. It's a very interesting move.
To my way of thinking though, the resultant foal of that mating would in fact be line-bred (albeit closely) to Western Ideal, and not inbred.
I think inbreeding in its true sense can only occur when the sire & the dam have the same female on their respective damlines and even then, only when she is found up close in their pedigrees(1-2-3 generations max)......for example, say if Charlie decided to get Lisconnie's dam, Lismurray, bred to Lis Mara. That would be in-bred, IMO.

Inbreeding if it's no good Line breeding if it's ok ha ha

Thanks Triple

Very strange to breed like that you have to wonder why and what the reason was if any or is he trying something out of left field, maybe we can get your brother to find out the reason.

No worries. Charlie's bred more horses than I've had hot dinners. He'd be doing it for a reason, you can guarentee it. On a kind of related note there have been & are a few pretty handy ones going around here in Oz at the moment that are line-bred 3x3 to Cam Fella. It's not something I'd have tried...but it looks like it's working & very well in some cases.

Yeah i've seen the 3x3 done a fair bit and i'm considering it myself by sending an Artiscape mare to Rocknroll Heaven which will give me the 3x3 reverse sex cross to Artsplace. But the Western Ideal is a 2x2 cross which seems to be to close it just had me curious as to why he would try something like that.

Wouldn't the foal be 2 x 3 to Western Ideal if

Hi Winston

As Lisconnie is by Western Ideal and so is American Ideal that would mean in would 2x2 Western Ideal.

There was an outstanding US filly Trotter from a fair few years ago by the name of CR Kay Suzie. Carl Allen had her & I think he bred her too? She was pretty nutso but along with it she had wicked high speed.
She was actually bred 2x2 to full siblings...the configuration of her pedigree being such that the dam of her sire (a mare by the name of Mae Jeans Crown) was in fact a full sister to her damsire, Speedy Somolli.
Here's a link to an on-line pedigree for her. http://www.allbreedpedigree.com/cr+kay+suzie

There have also been a few others that spring to mind that were not quite so successful.
http://www.allbreedpedigree.com/french+cuisine4.
I remember this colt from years ago, remember him well, he was a great looking horse but what a low bit of work on the track. He would not try an inch. Dave Aiken somehow managed to trick him into winning 1 race at HP in 2:04 and a piece that was it. He was bred 2 x 2 to no less than Meadow Skipper and his full sister, With Applause.
To offer an example of just how blinded by snazzy pedigrees one can become at times and despite the fact that I'd seen the above mentioned horse jink and swerve and duck and deceive at every turn...would you believe that over a 5 year period I went back & had a shot at not 1, not 2 but 3 horses from this maternal family...and they were ALL hopeless. They couldn't beat time with a stick, would not break 2:10 even if you were to drop them down a mine shaft chained to an Anvil. Terrible. I run away from anything that springs out of that dam line these days. Even now, 15-20yrs late, just thinking about it gives me cold shivers. :eek::eek::eek:

Hi Triple

Thanks for the insight and that's what i was looking for people to give example's to give me an idea as how successfull it has been and how many time's it has been tried. The reason i brought this topic up is i was told never to go any closer than 3x3 so i was looking to see other's thought's and idea's. When looking at a stallion for a mare i alway's look at race track performance, conformation and i look at how strong the family is, so i'm one that does look at the pedigree of a stallion but that doesn't mean i alway's go that way. More often than not these day's i might like a stallion but i never send the mare there as you have to try and pick a stallion that buyer's want progeny from and then again that doesn't seem to work for me either Lmao.