Well said Jack!Quote:
Originally Posted by jackthepunter
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Well said Jack!Quote:
Originally Posted by jackthepunter
If you knew of some of the things he was subjected to whilst he was the chief steward of HRV, you would not blame him for leaving.Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard prior
Driving the mobile home from Geelong one night, was allegedly almost forced off the road by a participant! At that point he made the decision to get out.
Terry Bailey mad a comment - which I agree with that the level allowed (200mg) is very lenient when you view the sample stats.
This is a litmus test for the integrity or lack of in Racing in Victoria and Australia.
I fear it could go the way of the litmus test for sport in general in Australia - the Aussie Rules Essendon sagaQuote:
Originally Posted by Mister JayKO
i have just finished reading the sun news paper,many pages on the doping "bomb shell",i have also read the local rag the warrnambool standard from front to back and not one single word on the subject......tim auld the standards racing guru and renowned disliker of harness racing is deafening with his silence.....are there any age readers out there that can tell me if it has run any press on the doping issue....the warrnambool standard is owned by the age.
Moody front page Courier yesterday, while Telegraph only had a small corner story. Tele had a bigger story on Waller complaining about money spent on training facilities. Had a chuckle about that one.
Thoroughbred horses sell newspapers, form guide, superstar jockeys, how the other half live.....They won't shoot themselves in the foot with adverse stories, I love the way harness racing always gets a mention at the bottom of the stories.
Wait for the spin doctors......it will start soon.....some poorly paid stablehand or hands will get the blame and the muti millionaire trainers will get a $30,000 fine." The Untouchables"
Can't help but think a "Joe the Cameraman" moment is coming up soon.
spot on p.plater said a similar thing last night but my post was removed.
Will be interesting to see the difference in treatment from Lee & Shannon Hope compared to the 3 big names in Moody Obrien and Kavanagh
I suggest any horse be it harness or thoroughbred that suddenly dies from a heart attack be tested for cobalt.
Quote:
Originally Posted by allanjg
Quote:
Originally Posted by p plater
As Allan said many pages in the Sun and the main headline on the front page of The Age (Racings Black Day) plus all the first 4 pages of sport (the back 4 pages) so on this occassion you are wrong PP and DQuote:
Originally Posted by DRUIDRACING
I'm sorry Kev I must have missed the result of the cases, sure all media are running with the stories at the moment...it sells papers...lets see in a week or so if its still covers 4 pages as you say. If advertisers pull copy, it will fade away. I was referring to the outcome.
Very cute PQuote:
Originally Posted by p plater
Really LOL
Front page Main HeadlineQuote:
Originally Posted by p plater
Racing's Black Day
Sydney herald reporting there has been positives to cobalt in Vic harness racing at the end of last year concerning one stable
http://www.smh.com.au/sport/horserac...16-12rvhs.htmlQuote:
Originally Posted by cyclone george
"I think we were the first to begin looking closely at the cobalt issue," he said. "It's an ongoing investigation and at this stage we can only confirm that we are looking closely at samples taken late last year."
http://www.harness.org.au/news-artic...?news_id=24690
HRV have been and will continue to arrange for collected swab samples to be analysed by Australian and international racing laboratories for the presence of elevated cobalt levels. Samples have been analysed dating back to 2013
With respect to retrospective testing, the fact that this threshold is established now does not prevent action from being taken under the existing rules of the time whereby evidence of the misuse of cobalt is present
Action would be under the pre-existing EPO/DPO hypoxia inducible factor rules/ruling?
If the SMH article is correct there seems to be some conflicting time frames?
Wayne, are you meaning Oct 14 as opposed to Oct 1?
I realise it's only a quote in a newspaper article Kev, so not so much an Oct 1 v Oct 14 thing. More so if HRV will be acting if there are any positives dating back to 2013, with reference to HRV's official notice.
Right, the SMH is only brief and I do not think that it contradicts the possibility of 2013 cases.
IMO however, you would think that if that was going to happen it would already have or would have to be soon as the ruling has been in 3mths now.
You would think the chances of pursuing an old positive would be much harder legally and I think would be more likely to happen if they had a post Oct14 to go with it
I think Vic both thoroughbred and harness were waiting for the results of the Day/McDowell numerous court challenges decisions before they considered acting.
A bit like the Race fields case.
Has there been a result for that court challenge?
Yes Kev, there was a report in December http://www.harness.org.au/news-artic...?news_id=25185
There was a follow up, whereby they wanted Sanders to disqualify himself, a finding was released on 14th January (last Week) http://www.harness.org.au/news-artic...?news_id=25454
The inquiries have been rescheduled for Tuesday 27th January 2015
Right - got you. It was the ruling not the result they were waiting on
For sure, awaiting the outcome of NSW harness cases and more particularly the Smith/Murray NSW thoroughbred no limit cases would be the decisive ones with pre October 2014 action. http://www.smh.com.au/sport/horseracing/darren-smith-to-be-a-test-case-before-further-cobalt-announcements-in-nsw-20150115-12r81z.html
http://www.racingqueensland.com.au/media-release/391/Queensland-trainers-knew-this-was-coming-Birch
I probably had the breeding season and yearling sales period on my mind as much as racing and cobalt. Yep, a level playing field for all, as well as horse welfare the priorities with any substance abuse. The wider ramifications with the release of the HRV notification, perhaps coincidentally, at the start of the breeding season. Instilling confidence in those who were a bit indecisive about owner-breeding this season or in the future. Important when you consider declining foal numbers. Similarly the timing of the latest cobalt events, and reported HRV positive, with the yearling sales period upon us.
Portraying a strong stance against drugs, then following through does have an influence on participation rates in the breeding barn and sales ring with some breeders and buyers.
Cobalt threshold needs tweaking: O'Brien
http://www.smh.com.au/sport/horserac...17-12si71.html
Danny O'Brien needs to read this
http://www.caselaw.nsw.gov.au/decisi...04de94513dc6d3
The chance that 200ug/L is a false positive is 2.25 trillion to 1
that is 2,258,000,000,000/1
These cases will go a long way towards determining the integrity of racing in Australia
Good to see Bailey not entertaining any crap
http://www.racingnetwork.com.au/bail...4/default.aspx
Has he shot himself in the foot by saying
"It appears to have happened over a period of time on a build-up of their normal race day supplements and treatments," he said.
Raceday treatments ???
TB's must have different rules to our horses Paul.Quote:
Originally Posted by Toohard
Same rules different penalties. Nothing to see here....:rolleyes::rolleyes:Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard prior
TB made me take two there Rich. TB = Thoroughbred + Terry Bailey !Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard prior
Compulsory reading
http://www.theage.com.au/sport/horse...18-12sr08.html
Quotes:
In Hong Kong, where the threshold is half that of Racing Victoria at 100, 7500 urine samples have been tested for cobalt since 2006. They showed unsupplemented horses to have urine cobalt levels in the range of five to 10, with an average level of 3.7.
The Hong Kong laboratory then performed a detailed study on a variety of legitimate cobalt supplements.
The results showed that oral supplements had virtually no effect on cobalt levels. Whilst injectable cobalt supplements did have the potential to elevate urine cobalt levels over the Hong Kong threshold, this excess over the threshold was very short-lived, lasting only six to 11 hours.
This point is lost on many in the industry. To reach the levels above 200 micrograms would mean that the horse would have to be therapeutically treated on the day of a race, which is also banned in Australia.
The result in Hong Kong caused the laboratory to propose that injectable cobalt supplements should not be given on race days.
That should not be a consideration here, as in Australia all race day treatments are against the rules.
In the US, a study has been done "doping" horses with non-proprietary cobalt from a compounding pharmacy.
In the study, after a single injection of cobalt, urine levels rose to 4000 but within 24 hours had dropped to 240, slightly above Racing Victoria's threshold of 200.
http://www.theage.com.au/sport/horse...18-12sr08.html
Kevin do you have a copy of the second link it seems to have been removed from the place it once was.Quote:
Originally Posted by Messenger
Danny's radio interview Saturday morning.
https://soundcloud.com/sen1116/danny-Obrien
"Progressive" trainers..."progressive" vets? In retrospect, maybe not so progressive in keeping up with the rules?
i have just finished listening to the danny o`brien radio interview,and i must say that i have never heard so much claptrap in my life,if he and a couple of others are the "best" trainers in the industry and his vet is a leader in the profession,then my gonads are made of marble.
It is the same as the first link Warren, it is just that I was taught to acknowledge source at top and bottom - is it coming up for you? Sometimes the same story in the Age is harder to link than the SMHQuote:
Originally Posted by kung fu man
Just seen that Colin McDowell has horses entered at Bankstown bit surprised as im sure i saw somewhere that a horse he was listed as trainer of went for cobalt chloride.This may have been a misprint i guess
Did see it on 2/6/14 Butterfly princess 200 which is allowable limit so must not have been charged .Just for interest same horse 22/7 reading was 42Quote:
Originally Posted by barney
This will be a landmark case make no mistake. If you are following it via various forums there is two very distinct schools of thought. In the Red Corner, we have The Realists - who can quote some of the excellent work done by The NSW stewards lead by Reid Sanders and the data collected which would seem to disprove the ability for a horse to get the false negative proposed by Danny O'Brien and co. Terry Bailey and co will have a massive fight on their hands given who he is up against.
In the Blue Corner, we have the deniers and or the establishment - three of the biggest names in the game. The red corner will be severely tested by legalistic argument if you follow the lead of some other forums. This could well mirror the drawn ASADA / Essendon saga in terms of time and wasted lawyers fees.
I am no scientist or lawyer, but if following the testing done by HRNSW is anything to go by, then I would form the view that 200 is a more than acceptable limit given the data.
I read with interest the comments made by Danny O'Brien regarding "standard practices". Since when did it become standard practice to give a racehorse of any description an IV Drip full of supplements! How can you expect hobby trainer Joe Blow to compete with these jokers who employ full time vets pumping horses full of God knows what via IV drips?
Everyone wants a level playing field, when Lance Armstrong was outed - it confirmed a lot of what I had been thinking for a long time. Several people have looked to discredit journalists like Andrew Rule, but to my mind he doesn't get involved unless he believes there is a story - dead men tell no tales, but it is hard to discredit the work he has done with regard to harness racing in the past. When you see horses continually "improved" by trainers you have to ask questions. The chemists will always be one step ahead of the testers - but by sharing information between jurisdictions you can close the gap. Bottom line if it looks like a duck and quacks like a duck..........
The threshold was introduced on April 1, trainers were warned about the use of supplements and treatments that contained cobalt when the threshold was released. How Danny O'Brien can claim he had never heard of cobalt until a week ago is frankly preposterous. Has he been living under a rock?
I am a realist, for the sake of both industries, the right outcome needs to be reached. To my mind that is if they test over 200mg per litre of urine and knowingly gave the treatments (which O'Brien has admitted to) then it should be very clear cut.
The sooner the threshold is brought down to 100mg the better. It's also intriguing to not the potential crossover use of lasix to offset the potential downside of cobalt.
Just how many horses run around on bone and muscle these dayside? Or am I naive to suggest that some still do?
I agree Stu - hands up who cares for the animal anymore? (many do I know but the actions of those that don't will do their best to ruin it for everyone else)
It's a funny thing - we make these animals run, and if they don't run as fast as we need we then whip them and fill them full of drugs to get them to do what we want - even if they just are not capable in the first place.
You are understating it when you say 'more than acceptable' Stu (I do note that you later suggest 100 - I think it is Ug not mg)Quote:
Originally Posted by Mister JayKO
You could say 'unbelievably generous'
I will put this link up again as it states the chances of a false positive of 200ug/L
as over 2 TRILLION to 1
that is a 2 with twelve zeros after it
or to quote the table exactly
2258000000000/1
http://www.caselaw.nsw.gov.au/decisi...04de94513dc6d3