The ASBP Report: How can they be serious? Bad news for harness owners

Quote:

Originally Posted by mango

Hi Roosters

Why should someone else pay for you to go to better stallion's so you can race them or sell them, i'm a breeder myself and when i got involved in the industry i knew it would be hard to make money by either racing them or selling but in know way do i expect other parts of the industry to fork out so i can go to a better stallion stallion. There's breeder's bonuses, cash bonuses that helps towards thing's like service fee's. You say this in turn make's for fuller fields, well isn't the kiwi horses helping out in this way.

its the ultimate goal thats important. My understanding is that the report tries to address the issue of falling breeding numbers and the fact that our racing population is dropping fast. yes,

i dont see any problem with incentivising breeders in order to attain that goal which then has significant benefits for the whole industry, but especially owners.

Once again, harping back to my yr 12 Economics studies. Sometimes you have to give a kick along to certain industries for the benfit of the country. Imagine where Aust would be now without the mining industry?

Im not looking for a free kick. i still pay my money.

A circular economy or a circular argument......

Assume a spherical horse Breno, assume a spherical horse. :p

Hi Rooster and good to see another point of view here. On what you wrote below:

Quote:

Originally Posted by roosters

Im really not fussed if a few less kiwi horses come over the ditch. There are so many of them that are still owned by kiwi owners and all they are doing is coming over here and taking the better prizemoney because their industry is stuffed. Im sure and know that many other hobby/ breeders fell like me.

I don't think you are correct in saying 'so many of them are still owned by Kiwi owners'. Speking form experience in NSW, there are very few whom are still retained by Kiwi interests although the numbers are increasing with the Menangle money going up.

Tell me, do you think it right to slug a small percentage of owners with the burden of funding the majority of NBCS? Wouldn't you feel it more equitable if everyone pays - after all it is for the benefit of the entire industry apparently, then if so, everybosy should assit.

Actual import numbers

There were 771 NZ horses exported to Australia in the NZ seaon ending 31 July. Other than a handful they will all have been transferred into Australian ownership.

A further 48 at the top level completed a round trip from either NZ or Australia for Interdominions or Grand Circuit races.

John

771 (number) x 4500 (increase in import fee if they are all boys - do you have mares breakdown Midfrew?) / 6000 (no of yearlings born per mightymo) = $578.
So thats $578 for each mares credits on average (not taking into account that import fees for mares is lower and that demand for the imports will go down). That isn't the difference between going to River Khan compared to Village Jasper. Let's say total costs from service fee right through to foal turns 2 and becomes a race horse is 15'000. Is that fair? If so then the credits account for 4% of total costs. Remembering I have used amounts that are very generous to the breeders side of the argument. It is hardly going to make a difference to anything. Heck I am going to go as far to say as it would make things worse. The amount of horses being imported would drop MORE than the amount of extra horses that get bred!

Quote:

Originally Posted by aussiebreno

771 (number) x 4500 (increase in import fee if they are all boys - do you have mares breakdown Midfrew?) / 6000 (no of yearlings born per mightymo) = $578.
So thats $578 for each mares credits on average (not taking into account that import fees for mares is lower and that demand for the imports will go down). That isn't the difference between going to River Khan compared to Village Jasper. Let's say total costs from service fee right through to foal turns 2 and becomes a race horse is 15'000. Is that fair? If so then the credits account for 4% of total costs. Remembering I have used amounts that are very generous to the breeders side of the argument. It is hardly going to make a difference to anything. Heck I am going to go as far to say as it would make things worse. The amount of horses being imported would drop MORE than the amount of extra horses that get bred!

you clearly are not very good with numbers!

Firstly, you are assuming every horse born makes it to the races!!! Lets say half do for arguments sake. That then means your $578 becomes $1156

Secondly, if the first crop it affects is the foals born this year, then there are 3 years before the credits get used, so multiply $1156 x 3 = $3468

Suddenly, maybe you can see some value being added in that having this value and in making it vest with the horse, the owner will breed from it, and as he has credits he will be able to send it to a better stallion than he otherwise would have been able to.

This then means the resultant foal has more chance of getting to the races and of being more competitive. Fuller and more competitve fields result in higher turnover which results in higher prizemoney for owners.

That is exactly what people that responded to the survey asked for, and that is what we are trying to deliver.

If you cant accept that, then that's a problem i cant help you with!

Also, I forgot to add, that you are assuming by having the increased import fee, that the number of horses being imported will drop dramatically.

I disagree. I do anticipate that there will be a drop off of some sort for the cheaper horses. However, in general I see kiwi vendors getting less for their horses, as Aust buyers will say i have $X dollars to spend and will include the import fee. Kiwi sellers have no choice to accept the reduced price, as their racing system doesnt allow the horses to race there and their prizemoney is so inferior.

As for kiwi owners sending their horses to race here, there has been a significant increase in this. Graeme Rogerson, John Green, Brian West plus others have all sent a number of horses over in recent times. far more than a handful.

Anyway, thats enough from me.

the Aust industry as a whole now has the opportunity to provide comment, and HRA can then decide what, if anything, they wish to implement. At least we gave it a go...

Is you're 6000 figure foals born or horses that make it to the races? Hard to play if I don't know the goalposts.

Regardless we only have 3.5mill to work with (771 x 4500). If its 6000 foals born per year then I am correct in $578. If its 12'000 foals born per year then its actually $289. Who's not good with numbers???
And if you're trying to say its 6000 foals born per year but only 3000 make it to the races...well those 3000 that didn't make it still used the Credits anyway so thats a blackhole expense...great for the industry NOT.

So for the first three years it is $289 x 3 = 867. Then for eternity (using current figures) its $289 (using generous figure).

Thanks for the laugh anyway Mightymo!

Quote:

Originally Posted by mightymo

Also, I forgot to add, that you are assuming by having the increased import fee, that the number of horses being imported will drop dramatically.

I disagree. I do anticipate that there will be a drop off of some sort for the cheaper horses. However, in general I see kiwi vendors getting less for their horses, as Aust buyers will say i have $X dollars to spend and will include the import fee. Kiwi sellers have no choice to accept the reduced price, as their racing system doesnt allow the horses to race there and their prizemoney is so inferior.

As for kiwi owners sending their horses to race here, there has been a significant increase in this. Graeme Rogerson, John Green, Brian West plus others have all sent a number of horses over in recent times. far more than a handful.

Anyway, thats enough from me.

the Aust industry as a whole now has the opportunity to provide comment, and HRA can then decide what, if anything, they wish to implement. At least we gave it a go...

No I haven't. I have used current figures in my calculations as FACT. Then stated opinion. You state opinion as Fact.