...as a box of Hammers. He's un-freaking-believable.
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...as a box of Hammers. He's un-freaking-believable.
Mango if you have read all the posts on this thread you will have read about "stacking" "micro dosing" and "masking" agents, these are all part of protocols to use performance enhancing drugs and when combined with private testing negate post race testing. Simply put our rules where written for an era where oil based anabolic steroids did test for considerable amounts of time so that whilst in theory horses could train on them the most likely scenario was that they actually did not, with those trainers/vets that used them giving them to the horse as it left the stable to go for a spell. Water based steroids didn't test for anywhere near as long and most trainers didn't use them because they didn't believe they were sufficiently effective.Quote:
Originally Posted by mango
Unfortunately as Bill pointed out with a remark a long the lines of "good luck" with getting the rules changed harness racings rules have not kept pace (no pun intended!) with either science or public opinion. Bills example was with regard to the use of anti ulcer meds which only in the last year or so were removed from the prohibitted substance list (but still cant be administered raceday when they are probably needed most ) years after the TB's allowed their use. Perhaps Bill can enlighten us as to exactly how long? I can tell you Mango that the change in harness racings rules came more then a decade after the FEI (Federation Equestrian Internationale) allowed horses in international equestrian sports to compete on anti ulcer medication after years of research showed they had no performance enhancing effect.
Likewise the NSW parliament (the elected representatives of the NSW people) legislated some 6 years ago that only Vets should be permitted to use a naso gastro tube on a horse yet harness racing rules still allow trainers to "tube" a horse except within 48 hours of a race.
Put simply Mango our rules on out of competition testing for anabolic steroids are out of date and harness racing needs to wake from its slumber on the matter and move to bring us in line with both science and public opinion. Anabolic steroids are banned for human athletes to train and compete on not only because of the performance enhancing properties in competion but because of the side effects and long term effects on health, so why should our equine athletes not be afforded the same level of protection. Humans do not accept human athletes training on anabolic steroids, and have developed both post and out of competition testing in an attempt to prevent it, so why should we accept our horses training on anabolic steroids instead of changing the rules and making anabolic steroids a banned substance in an out of competition test.
Hi Dot
The simple fact of the matter is that anobolic steriods are not illegal so why worry about out of competition testing untill they are. If they ever come under the banned list i would say and agree to test for it out of competition but untill that time i'd prefer to see more race day testing to make it fair on everyone. At the end of the day your not racing anyone or winning money in training so concentrate on the day's that you are.
Mango can you not see that it is what you do in training that determines if you win in competition?
Your list needs to be compiled by an expert VVV, and even with an expert I'm not sure it can be done to cover all possibilities. Certainly it cant be done by me and if I did write one you wouldn't agree with it because I don't see the use of anabolic steroids in an athletic horse as "therapeutic".Quote:
Originally Posted by Triple V
What silly rule are you talking about, what the parliament decrees is law not rules VVV. It will probably come as a shock to you VVV but racehorses can be trained without "drenching". In most instances it is an antiquated practise that has been superseeded by new science and products. About the only thing that does really require a trainer to drench is less "noble"
Given VVV that you've said your horses welfare comes first why didn't you call a vet to your foal? How would you have gone if you'd given it aspiration pneumonia? There are some exceptional circumstances clauses in the legislation but if your foal was in North West Sydney VVV then I doubt you qualify. There are 2 specialist equine clinics out there that both offer 24 hr on call ambulatory care, why didn't you use one?
VVV as you don't like the term masking agent lets use your term "interference" agent for bute. Bute doesn't cure injury or illness, it "interferes' with the inflamatory cascade thus reducing pain and swelling but those torn tendon fibres are still just as torn even though you cant see exterior signs of it. So you keep working the horse and what was minor injury is suddenly a major one because you wanted to go back to the races next week rather then give the horse time to recover. If your horse needs bute to recover from a race doesn't he deserve the time it takes for it to clear his system before you ask him for another effort? Or because its ineffective after around 12 hours do you think you should be able to mask, sorry interfere with, his perception of pain until 12 hours before racetime? Pain and swelling is there for a reason VVV, it tells us we need time to repair and recover.
Hi Dot
Sorry Dot i don't see a problem as long as it's legal under the rule's of Harness Racing.
I guess Mango then you wouldn't have seen a problem with slavery, apartheid or women not having the vote either when those things were legal!Quote:
Originally Posted by mango
Hi Dot
I find it appalling that you would use those situation's to those of using a legal substance such as steriods, at the end of the day Dot rule's are rule's and if one work's inside the rule's that's great. You need to have a good look at yourself Dot and when doing so ask yourself if it's legal can i do it and by the way the answer is yes.
Mango those things are but a few examples in human history of things that we now find appalling that were legal, and during the time they were legal many people like yourself found them perfectly acceptable because they were legal. It was only when people began to question not whether they were legal but if they were right that in time changes were made to the law to make them illegal.
I thank you for your advice Mango but no matter how many times I look at myself I will not see fit to use anabolic steroids on my horses as a matter of course because it is legal.
http://www.harnesslink.com/www/Article.cgi?ID=99567
At least its a start!